Big Talk About Small Business
Hosted by Mark Zweig and Eric Howerton. Our Mission is to inspire, empower, and equip entrepreneurs with the knowledge and insights they need to succeed in their ventures. Through engaging conversations with industry experts, seasoned entrepreneurs, and thought leaders, we aim to provide valuable strategies, actionable advice, and real-world experiences that will enable our listeners to navigate the challenges, seize the opportunities, and build thriving businesses.
Big Talk About Small Business
Ep. 84 - Niche Down to Scale Up
What happens when you focus deeply on a single service instead of trying to be everything to everyone in real estate? Brian Clark of ABC Property Management reveals the power of being "a mile deep and an inch wide" in property management.
Brian's journey from finance graduate to successful property manager wasn't without detours. After learning real estate fundamentals over a decade at a local company, he took a surprising turn into corporate retail as an associate buyer at Walmart. This "retail boot camp" instilled a work ethic, sense of urgency, and organizational skills that would become his secret weapons when launching his own business after COVID hit.
Starting with just one single-family home from a friend, Brian built his company to 260 units across residential and commercial properties. His growth hack? Something refreshingly simple: actually answering the phone. "My first 10 clients hired me because they called two other property managers and nobody answered," he shares. This responsiveness, combined with systematic processes and technology adoption, created a competitive advantage in an industry known for mediocre service.
As his business grew beyond what one person could handle, Brian faced the classic entrepreneurial evolution – building a team, implementing systems like Yardi for property management, and even launching a vertical integration maintenance company called Make Ready Services. His experience highlights the transition from small business operator to true entrepreneur, focusing on building long-term value rather than just maximizing short-term income.
Whether you're in property management or any service business, Brian's approach demonstrates how specialization and excellent execution can create outsized success in a competitive market. If you're looking to build a business with staying power, this episode delivers practical wisdom from someone who's doing exactly that.
I want to be a mile deep and an inch wide in property management. Got it Doing. That has allowed me to, like, really stay focused on. I'm property management focused because you can get lost and you see a lot of people in real estate. They can be really successful or just getting started and they still can get lost with oh, we're doing, we offer everything in real estate. Well, there's a lot of plates that are spinning there this is another episode of big talk about small business.
Speaker 1:What you think about that one, brian, was everyone is different every where I've listened to a few and everyone you guys got a little. It's not like you're just default playing the sound. No, no, it's creepy.
Speaker 2:No way, no God. We could do that though.
Speaker 4:At the same time, it wouldn't be Slither Episode A big talk about small business.
Speaker 1:I'm going to fall asleep.
Speaker 2:This has been brought to you today by oh, we don't have a sponsor sponsor, oh, dang of it. What is wrong? I mean numbers keep going up. No, I don't know. They should be beating down. This should be, this should be anyway. Hey, today in the studio we've got brian clark with us yes, we do, who I just learned. Um had uh, been in my house years and years ago with one of my older daughters, when he, I guess, he was a college student. Then when did you graduate, brian 2012.? Oh yeah, he was definitely. He was probably like a sophomore or something, freshman maybe, because I got rid of that house in 09. Probably a sophomore 10, maybe, Mark.
Speaker 4:I've been to your house a lot of times, too, when you're not there. What are you talking about?
Speaker 2:good lord, um, anyway, um. So I knew brian looked familiar to me. Yeah, he's a big um, eric tells me you're a big fan of the show yeah, I listen to it quite a bit, do you?
Speaker 1:um, yeah, it's been mostly driving around. Uh, I'm in the car a lot. I'm, like man, tired of listening to the same music.
Speaker 2:Could use my brain to maybe get smarter, so well, I'm not sure this is the place we appreciate that.
Speaker 4:Nevertheless, maybe you can, like you can, resonate with us about when we complain about things continuously that's when the, that's when the.
Speaker 1:You know I gotta get out of the car and then I I get back in the car and spotify kicked it to the next episode. So it's like I get to listen to like a lot of episodes.
Speaker 4:But yeah, okay, if I really like when I go back hey, as long as you let that keep playing, so our numbers look better. That's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly whatever wow, man, I mean just keep it going. Turn down, but just keep it running. No, brian is an interesting background. I know you got your degree from U of A in finance and then you went out and worked in corporate. America, yep. And you've had several businesses, I guess, since then. One recently started. So tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I, uh, I look back and I kind of real estate's my passion and that's what I kind of I've been anchored to, um, and and really got to learn real estate from a local company at Lindsay, um, for about a decade and really where I got to learn like, okay, I like what this is, get to learn kind of all phases of real estate.
Speaker 1:Got to learn like, okay, I like what this is, get to learn kind of all phases of real estate. Got to learn real estate, uh, the leasing side, management side, uh the selling of just of a home side and and really kind of got to see, okay, I really like this management stuff and uh, did that for a good minute and um, and then, and then I just took a wild turn and, um, walmart I was able to get in with Walmart and got to be an associate buyer up there for a couple of years and I call that retail boot camp because I thought I was successful in real estate before I got to Walmart. Hard uh, and work at a different pace and get into the details, sense of urgency, report to a lot of people like taught me more than I ever thought I would.
Speaker 2:it's good stuff yeah, people need that, that sense of urgency. Yeah, so funny. We just had this discussion this morning, my wife and I. Yeah, it was about somebody I sent an email to yesterday and one of the companies I'm with I'm at 9 30 and then I heard back this morning. I'm like that's not acceptable. I mean seriously, but she goes. You know, this person asked me what the person's background was. They never worked in corporate america. Yeah, they never worked in a real business. Yeah, they don't understand that. That's part of what you got to do yeah, and it goes a long way.
Speaker 1:And so halfway through I was at walmart yeah, if I could do this, I take this type of work ethic that I've learned, that I can do, and walmart kind of pushed it out of me like I can go do real estate and I can do well, yeah and uh, that's. That's pretty much kind of like the like the starter per se of how I said, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. And then then COVID came along 2020 and said, okay, now it's time to 2021. Now it's time to just start it. And it was tough at first.
Speaker 2:What did you start exactly? Tell us about the business. I mean, there's a lot of things you can do with real estate, obviously.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So when I was at Walmart, so I left Walmart and then I realized, okay, I got to get back into real estate. Estate, um, and I guess that was 2020, it was 2021, I believe is when I really got back into it and, um, really, it was just like going to the basics, like, okay, gotta get a website, um, gotta make sure that, um, everything's up to date with the state, and and then just get out there, start networking, calling old people that knew that I was in real estate before and really built my business off of networking and referrals so what services are we talking about?
Speaker 2:were you selling?
Speaker 1:yeah, uh, so just property management. So property management I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be if I I stole this from eric, yeah, he's told me several times and, and it's been something that I really tried to hang my hat on is I want to be a mile deep and inch wide in property management got it doing. That has allowed me to, like, really stay focused on I'm. I'm property management focused, because you can get lost and you see a lot of people in real estate. They can be really successful or just getting started and they still can get lost with, oh, we're doing, we offer everything in real estate. Well, right, there's a lot of plates that are spinning there. Yeah, exactly, that's why I was asking. So I've learned, okay, if I focus really into property management, I'm going to refer out things that come and I get referrals in as well, and then I stay focused on property management. And so that's really how I built and kind of got going from.
Speaker 1:Picked up my first single family home from a buddy. He was like, hey, I don't want to manage it, I'm like, dude, I'll manage it. Kind of got my my rhythm going and then I'm like, okay, uh, now I need to make sure I have a google page. Now I need to make sure I have a website. Yep, and then really it was just I. Just I kind of look back because it's just a huge blessing. I just answer the phone, my work ethic, with sense of urgency, and what I've learned at walmart even though retail does not correlate to real estate, but the work ethic does, and how I and the process, yeah, and organizations like I.
Speaker 1:I didn't really know how to work excel and outlook and all those. Before I went to walmart and then walmart that's pretty much you have to know how to work those tools, sure, then leaving and okay, I got it. I tried to make my tools work with Google. I was like this isn't working. I had to pay a bunch of money and say, okay, I got to go back to Outlook because that's how my brain works and calendar scheduling, going through numbers and being able to talk to people, answer them. I mean it's crazy. I've repeated seven times. It's crazy. I've repeated seven times it's answering the phone and responded A lot of times. My first 10 clients were on a Friday at three. Oh well, I'm going to hire you, because I've called two other property managers and nobody answered the phone. Oh, it's so true.
Speaker 2:And I've had bad experience with most property managers. I've had good and then I've had a lot of bad. Yeah, and there definitely is an opportunity for somebody. That's good and, as you say, being responsive. It's just so critical. Well and.
Speaker 4:I would say that, like it's becoming more critical because, you know, honestly, we have access to all this information, right? You know AI, everything that's coming in. Our patience is getting thinner and thinner and thinner, and we expect, our level of expectation is extremely high.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I've taught my team, because now I'm trying to make sure that my team because I bootstrapped it to I figured I kind of bootstrapped my company to about 150 units I was like, okay, I can do this. Well, after 150, I'm just going to go crazy if I keep doing it by myself and so I teach my team all the time. We have a good team now. It's like like answer the phone, be responsive, don't just send a text message, don't just send an email. Do all three, yeah, and make sure you respond to all three, and we can get lost in the tools of all the other stuff as we do. Yeah, it's like we got to circle back to well, if it's a really urgent and you send them a text and it's two hours gone by you didn't hear from, just call them and not everybody communicates the same way.
Speaker 2:That's what I always tell my students you've got to find out, like, how some people want to call, some want to email, someone to text someone to visit. I mean, you got to figure that out. Yeah, that's, but that's, that's awesome. So how many um units are you managing now? So we're about 100 about 260 units.
Speaker 1:Okay, and it's a good split between residential is about 50% and then commercial and multifamily is about 50%. Do you call like, if you?
Speaker 4:have a multifamily unit. I mean, is that one unit?
Speaker 1:So I call a multifamily a duplex or more. Right now we have apartments as well.
Speaker 4:But you consider every one of those little, every door. I see every door, every door is a unit.
Speaker 1:okay, I also talk kind of in the commercial world. I talk more about square footage, right, um, but yeah, I still think units have a door. Uh, I have an office over in springdale and you know there's like 20 doors. It's one building but there's 20 doors that we can rent, so it's 20 units over there and so commercial kind of changes it up. Single family is pretty much you got one single family home. That's one unit.
Speaker 1:But I'm a little different. I've kind of gotten a funny feedback throughout the industry and residential, because you don't see a lot outside of this area, you don't see a lot of people doing residential and commercial, and that might be something that I changed one day, um, but I've really gotten involved in like the national um, like just different organizations about property management and learning and working with those guys and it's been interesting because you know it's all they're just focused on residential and not doing commercial. But I would not have the growth that I've had without saying, hey, I know I can do commercial, I enjoy that side of the business, I learned it and I just love it, don't?
Speaker 2:you think, though, that commercial is just less hassle Because people don't live there. The numbers are bigger, you know, like if I'm going to rent a space like this, I'd probably be paying $12,000 a month or something, correct? Yeah, so the numbers are bigger, or whatever it is, and then we don't live here. Yeah, correct. That makes things maybe less tragic. Well, yeah.
Speaker 1:So my wife, you know I talked with her about real estate. She's learned a lot since she's been married to me. It's like, I think, there's less emotion, no matter whether it's selling or managing. There's less emotion in commercial versus residential. So I do, and that's why I enjoy it. But it's a hard. I've noticed it's tougher for me to teach commercial at the beginning. You have to already have a good understanding of real estate because there's a lot more stuff. There's triple net leases, right. There's modified gross, there's basic gross leases, and then you're dealing with repairs that are different. You're not just fixing how you just, you know, call an ac guy and get it fixed. No, you might be dealing with a complex hvac unit or a complex boiler or a complex elevator yeah and then it's.
Speaker 1:It's a whole nother ball game of working through, uh, all that. But I've enjoyed it and I think the number side attracts me, even though I'm not I don't think I'm like a number driven person, but the numbers are just like getting into the details and talking with people, business owners um, I I do enjoy and that's why I've been like man. I'm not going to give up the commercial aspects and it's been a blessing that I've had it, because we're not growing the way I've grown without both of them.
Speaker 4:So tell our listeners a little bit about when you say property management services.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what does that mean? So I consider myself a third party property manager. So you own a house and you don't want to deal with the headache of dealing with the tenant, legal signing of leases, all that. You hire a third party property manager. We're going to make sure that we put a good tenant in there. If we have to kick a tenant out unfortunately we can also do that and then just working through the whole process, making sure that you get paid every month, you get a report every month, and then you're going to get inspection reports throughout the year, making sure your property is taken care of. And so that same mentality goes to commercial as well, whether it's single family, a warehouse, office space, that's unusual.
Speaker 2:So you go out and you take a look and see what's going on at the property. Yeah, so we're back.
Speaker 1:That's, that's nice, I like that. So we, I've I've been. When I first started I was like that's kind of what I love to do. I was like, okay, you know I got 50 units and okay, today I'm gonna go spend all day in the field because I like being in the field and it's like. But then as we've grown, it's like okay, I can't be in the field 24 7, but we've gotten tools that we can go on our phones and put a report together and like say what's going on. Obviously we'll get tenant requests saying hey, fix my you know my leaking sink or whatever. Sure, um, and then, but other sometimes, like we've had one issue a while back where it was like a fireplace, well, we had to go check it out. Uh, go check out what's going on, not just uh, thank you, and then, and then move on. So do you do?
Speaker 4:any repairs yourself or you like contract that out so, yeah, so, uh, up until a year ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, and that's probably the biggest, I would say it's in mark, I'm sure you have an opinion on this. I would say property management. One of the toughest parts is managing and getting repairs done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I've dealt with all sorts of people, all walks of life and, uh, it always seems to there's always a letdown here's my favorite one, brian my light bulb in my in my stair my light bulb in my stairwell is my light in my stairwell won't work. Have you changed the bulb in it? Yeah, I changed the bulb, it still won't go on. Yeah, you go over there and you change the bulb and it goes on. Yeah, they didn't want to do it, right. Okay, have you ever had those?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I've had air filters too. Oh yeah, filters too oh yeah, I don't want to change the air filter like, uh, that's your responsibility. It says in the lease that you gotta change the air filter.
Speaker 2:Most of them never will change there they won't do anything. When you something, don't read leases, but we try.
Speaker 1:Well, it's true if you teach the tenants that, hey, if you don't want your ac going out, uh, on 100 degree day, on a sunday and in summer, you should change your air filter. If you don't want your AC going out on a 100-degree day on a Sunday in summer, you should change your air filter. If you don't want your heater going out when it's negative 5 in January, on a Sunday, you should change your air filter. And that might help it. Not 100%, but keeping those coils clean and keeping that machine clean does go. So we try to remind people of that.
Speaker 4:It might keep your bill down too. Do you? Do you actually fix any?
Speaker 1:so me personally, no, okay. But back to your question. So, uh, but I recently started a company to where I have guys working directly for me, okay, that are out in the field and working through. Like then they're reporting to me on hey, yeah, we've painted this property or we've gotten the floors done. Yeah, um, kind of like your own little handyman. Yeah, but I'm not going to expand it outside of abc. We have so much work. Yeah, but maybe one day we would. But but that's been a a journey of, like, another business, vertical integration, vertical integration, creating another business. Uh, some days I'm like why did? Did I do this?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do that we sell that every morning, but at the end, and especially when we can't handle all the work, it's like, oh man, my expectation is high. My expectation is higher than the owner's. Some owners don't think that but it really is. And if my expectation is not getting hit, that's why I started this other company. It was a side hustle. Until now I've got two guys working for me and maybe have three Building up. That whole process has been. I think I've learned more about building a business than I did when I first did ABC property management, because there's so much more Because the revenue with. I called it, so my handmade company is called Make Ready Services. Okay, good.
Speaker 1:It's a simple portion because you're going to do a make ready when it comes out. And the make ready side, the income is so different than property management where it's. In property management you pretty much know you have a good idea of what you're going to make the next three months and it's not going to be Make ready.
Speaker 2:You don't know what you're going to find until you get over there, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah about it. Yeah, uh, and it's not going to make ready. You don't know what you're going to find. You get over there, right? Yeah, you don't know. You don't know how long the job's going to take. You don't know if you have enough money to pay for the high material bill and you got to go talk to the owner.
Speaker 2:You're making my heart rate go up right now. We used to have these 16 townhouses we rented out students three bedroom, two and a half bath, uh, over by the university. Yeah, and I think it was like july 28th. The leases ran out, okay, and then you'd have three days to go into these things and there were it's always like eight at a time and they all needed to be repainted. They're 1500 plus square feet. They'd need new carpet.
Speaker 2:We'd be throwing their refrigerators away and stoves because they don't maintain those, replacing the blinds, replacing all the bulbs, and my wife would be so pissed off for those three days because she would be over there and people are on our hands and 24 hours a day. Okay, yeah, and she's hauling the crap out to the dumpster and when they take the trash out, they don't even put it in the dumpster. Yeah, they set it all around the outside. One time she had maggots crawling in between her toes and she was. I was out of seen it all. She was very. That is so hard. People don't understand the turnover time. No, so having some control your own people is essential yeah, it's essential.
Speaker 1:You still get the stress. I know you still get the stress. I know, especially in that's hard summer is probably the hardest to hit because you do have yeah, june, july or high season and I tell people this a lot of times even owners coming in and explaining how the seasons work, because the seasons are so important to understand yeah.
Speaker 1:May, june, july, august. You better be ready, and you got to have high turnover. You also be better be ready for marketing, because you're going to get all the calls in, capture them then work through them, because if you don't stressed out about your business, why the heck yeah? I mean hey, man, this is the way that, the way that I've looked at, as I've made a blocker right now or something to slow my heart rate down.
Speaker 2:You're bringing back, you're traumatizing me.
Speaker 2:Did you hire a property manager? You know, I had three different setups in my business. For all our rentals we had two different property managers and some we did on our own Sure. Actually, we had four because we had commercial yeah, that was a separate property manager, sure, and in some cases our own, yeah. So, yeah, we had all variants on it and, like I said, a good property manager is invaluable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we always had good tenants. We had 100 occupancy. We got paid quickly yeah, no issues. Bad property manager paid slowly. Bad information yeah, uh, stuff is being done and we're paying too much for it and it's not done properly. Yeah, we bought a 20 unit apartment building and we found out after we bought it that the prior property manager, who we inherited with sure, in my opinion, was stealing money from the owner. Okay, by having services that they were paying somebody to do that were either either were never done or done wrong, and maybe there were kickbacks. I don't know. But we ended up with two units that had through the wall um split system, hvac systems and at many splits, and two of them they had no heat. They only were air conditioning because the property manager didn't make sure that they put split systems in. They just replaced it with an ac unit. So the winter comes and people are like how do I turn the heat on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like what do you mean? You turn the thermostat, they put heat in. They're like no, it doesn't work. Okay, what do you think of that?
Speaker 1:uh, I think of that. I think of then. You're making my heart race when I think about pipes freezing, because pipes freezing you can have the best heater or the worst. But now it goes back to just like double checking what you're doing and making sure that your guys communicate on what's going on. And that's why I started this other company. Yes, you had to have a little control and I have a little bit more.
Speaker 1:I think it's still at times I'm like man, we got to do more. I need another me. I don't know what that looks like. I got to just keep planning out more processes, more procedures to make things better. But it's still tough because then it all relies on workers Making sure you take care of your workers and work through that, and that's a whole different way of business than what I did with ABC or what I'm doing with ABC property management. So it's just I have to look at it as a fun way to work through. It's all connected. But at the same time you have to check what you're doing and then, if you don't, what I't? I've made a few mistakes and if you don't, you've got to own up to what's going on and then I will lose money and that's okay, but I will gain it back down the road. But if there's something that we did that wasn't done, right, well, then I need to own it and then move on. Wow, that's unusual.
Speaker 2:Pass it on to the owner it's not my problem, but you can't do that it seems to be my life. We just deduct it from your income this month. That's right, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you get a statement. Yeah, you get that statement. The best is a statement.
Speaker 2:They just deduct it. It's totally out of your control. Yeah, just on certain repairs, but and it's not something that I'm like, oh, that's, that's, that's not. No, I'm sure you communicate, but, yeah, yeah, so well, that's interesting. I mean, it's these kinds of businesses fascinate me. Yeah, you know, because you're not inventing anything new. There's a lot of providers out there that do what you do, but they're all bad or a lot of them are right. You know what I mean, and this is just to. It's just the greatest. This is why small business is so great. Yeah, there's always an opportunity to improve on what's out there, and you don't need to sell people on the idea that they need a property manager. I mean you, if you got a million, you know we had like 67 rentals or whatever, plus commercials. Yeah, we can't do that. Right, we need help. Okay, you don't have to convince me, we need it. So I love businesses where people know they need it and then all the or the majority of providers are mediocre.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and you have. I had to learn this the hard way at the beginning, cause at the beginning I thought I had to sell every tom, dick and harry that they needed me, yeah. But we're at a point now where we they know they do, we need to, I need to know who I'm working with and if we're a good fit. If we're not a good fit, let's not get into it exactly a mess down the road, and I've had to learn that the hard way, um, but now I know, and I'm, when we're, when I'm talking to clients or anybody, not just someone that might be a client it's like we want to be a good fit. If we're not a good fit, hey, I want to help you. I'll tell you what. Maybe we should do, sure, but, um, send you to somebody else. Forcing the situation is a bad deal.
Speaker 4:Well, I think that, like starting a business, you have these phases, right like in the beginning. You should take everything that you absolutely yes, yes every revenue.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes, yes, yes everything you can and then you then you do start peeling out and getting more defined about how your audience is, what your service is over, you know, and you start finding those niches. And you know, because I'd like I've seen some folks that uh, it drives me crazy, like when you get like a subcontract or not subcontract but solepreneurs right, that are maybe doing a specific trade and they got these. You know, I get paid $150 an hour and I need at least five hours of guaranteed work and I need these kinds of parameters and it's like they built this thing right, like they're like they are Walmart, you know, but you're not. You know, you're one person and I'm just calling bull crap on the 150 an hour, like.
Speaker 4:I mean what overhead do you have, you know? So you basically want to work 40, you know that's how I always did business, so I don't know, but I mean, but you're right, I hear you, but it's like you, you, you box yourself in to begin with and right.
Speaker 2:You've limited your opportunities in the process.
Speaker 4:I did a really interesting exercise a few weeks ago that fascinated me. I added up, I looked at, because I got mad about a contractor that needed $150 an hour and I'm like you have no overhead, I'm like it would be nice, I would like to make $150 an hour. Right, no overhead, right, right, exactly, that sounds fantastic. But I did a calculation. It looked like my time at white spider and I never made 150 an hour there, right, I mean, I was probably paying for a lot of the work that I was doing. But I added it up from from that time, like what was my hourly rate after we sold the business? And it was very much worse and it it was over $150.
Speaker 2:Obviously.
Speaker 4:Right, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Right, you were building a business. Right, that's entrepreneurship. Right, that's my point, that's the point.
Speaker 4:Like dude, I would take a job for $20 an hour.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, because you got the long game in mind. Yeah, man, that's the whole point. Get the snowball rolling. Yeah, but see right there, eric, that is the difference between small business and entrepreneurship.
Speaker 2:yeah, you can do either yeah, a small business is all about how much money can I get out of this thing, this right? Okay, yeah, the entrepreneur is not thinking that. The entrepreneur is like what is this going to be worth in five years? There you go. Okay, I'll do all this stuff, make all these sacrifices along the way for the big payday. I will die for you client. The small business owners like spend money on marketing. My god, that will reduce my pay this week. I will not.
Speaker 4:I tried that once and it didn't work and I won't be able to do my vacation in june, yeah, and january and april expensive oil it's it's.
Speaker 2:It's a short-term orientation versus law and it's a. It's a hamster wheel it is. You'll never get off it. As soon as you stop, the whole thing ends, the party crash and then it's over. It doesn't work done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this week you're talking about, um, what's your worth? And uh, that's recently. I've had to kind of digest all that because I've recently hired an office manager and I'm like, okay, what's that worth? Well, it's worth a lot, because I can't be in every little admin detail and now I'm working faster, we're working better, and what is it? I think it's the book Buy Back your Time and I think that's the book. I might be saying it wrong, but working through that process has been like, okay, what, what are you worth and what are your people worth? And then making sure you build a good team around there, and that's been something that even like a year ago, I didn't really fathom. But now it's like, okay, what am I building to make sure we move the right?
Speaker 2:way right. You're thinking like an entrepreneur you gotta make these investments and there's a.
Speaker 1:I guess there's a transition. I don't know when I hit that transition, but there is one. Some people never hit it. You can drive down fayetteville, springdale, rogers, sure see.
Speaker 2:But um well, yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, though, because when you think about it, property management is a recurring revenue business, right, yeah, what are those businesses worth? What do they trade at? Have you looked into that? Uh, yeah, three multiple of three ebit or revenue.
Speaker 1:Uh, revenue, well, across the country I've seen revenue and then I've also seen ebit as well.
Speaker 2:So okay, um I would think three times revenue would be totally possible, that recurring revenue stream.
Speaker 1:It seems that depending on how well you're keeping your clients, I follow people across the country and, um some and some of those, they seem to move pretty quick. It seems like a lot of them move without even hitting a business broker or any knowing about it. Eric's been bothering me for five years that he wants to buy my company and I'm ready to finally kick back. Has he been?
Speaker 2:No, oh, You're going to surprise me. Guy seems like he's buying everything.
Speaker 1:In general, I hear stories. I hear more stories like that than if I go on the hunt to try to find one to buy. It's like I've got to go door knocking every property manager and I get door knocked all the time by property managers.
Speaker 2:Are there private equity firms out there that are consolidating these?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, some of them. I know there's a lot of PE firms that are buying properties, so they have to be buying management. Well, it's a steady piece.
Speaker 1:It's pretty steady overall. You forecast what you're doing, you put policies, procedures in place and it should run well. Now, if you add more, you got to build more, but that's what I got to learn quickly working with some mentors across the country and locally. Locally is how to build it the right way, and I got to learn really well from the people at Lindsay. They were great teaching me how that worked.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, lindsay's got what 40,000 plus units out there, lord, do they really? Yeah, 40,000 plus, yeah, all right, they know what they're doing. Yeah, I mean, people are always critical of Lindsay know what they're doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they absolutely mean. People are always critical of lindsey. They're so big because if the bigger the property management, the more problems and critics you're going to have it's amazing what they do and they're.
Speaker 2:I will say one thing about lindsey too their property landscaping is always better maintained than anybody else's. I always see that it's got to be because of the golf course sort of background of lindsey.
Speaker 4:Well, they probably realize that it's got to be because of the golf course sort of background of Lindsay. Well, they probably realize that it's a big selling point it is. It's a big property valuation. I mean curb appeal is a big deal Like if you're shopping for a house to rent, I'm telling you or anything, and it looks nice.
Speaker 2:I go over there to Pinnacle, which is our nicest mall. For those of you who don't know, and you go by, dillards and the shrubs are so freaking giant and overgrown they stick out into the sidewalk like three feet. It's like I gotta walk into the road and I can't believe that somebody doesn't go cut these damn things down, because if I was managing that and I had dillard's I would go over there and go. This is crazy. How did this get this overgrown?
Speaker 4:I wish you did own it. I'm lobbying for you to own it.
Speaker 2:That's the nicest mall we have and the landscaping is not maintained.
Speaker 1:Somebody's probably pushing that property manager to say keep costs low, no matter what, because no matter what keep them low. But the same thing. You drive by these walgreens that are going on, yeah, and you can see the ones. I mean no wonder these are closing down.
Speaker 1:There are corner lots, major corner lots throughout all of this area sure they always go high traffic on both lanes or both roads and looks like they haven't mowed the grass in three weeks, and so you judge a lot by the character of landscaping, and I've learned that too with multifamily. People in multifamily typically don't keep things clean and nice, but if you keep them clean and nice, then you have more people coming in. So true, and it's like holy now your occupancy rate will stay high, and which is what you want. It's an investment, your value is going to stay high.
Speaker 1:You're able to get them in quick instead of having to go and show the property 10 times. Then you're wasting more time, then you're losing money. It's so true, property 10 times and working through that. So then it's been a a marriage of working with how we kind of get that together, a marriage of working with how we kind of get that together, because it's not you. I can't just go to mr owner and say, hey, let's spend top dollar landscaping and let's make it happen. But maybe teach them and walk through like, hey, here's an roi that we can get to, but we got to do this, this and this. We can take your rents from 500 a unit to a thousand. Then now we're talking, it's going to raise your value, it's going to raise raise your morale. You're going to maybe get better tenants.
Speaker 2:My theory always was you want to be in the top 10% or 15% price-wise for whatever you have. So that means you've got to maintain it better than anybody else. But then you get a better tenant who's more likely they recognize that they're going to pay the premium. They're more likely to pay because they're quote a better tenant. They're less likely to destroy your place. Yeah, all that filters through the whole thing. So I just wanted to be expensive. Yeah, no, it makes sense, you know, but keep your tenants. But, like you said, I mean you. You, you have to be really on top of the properties, you. To do that, yeah, you have to go look at it, not just I, exactly, but that's where I can't look at it if I'm not doing this in my hometown. So I need somebody like you. Yeah, it's gonna go over there and go. You know what you really need to do x, y and z for sure, and then that's why we created this.
Speaker 1:We have these, this inspection, all these. I feel like someone said they just joined my team, like we have a lot of tools, and we do have a lot of tools compared to a year ago, and one of the tools that I'm really fond of is this inspection report. I can pull my phone out and make an inspection report on a small one bedroom home, or I can pull it out, make it on a 5 000 square foot. You know, mansion, sure, both yeah, and then I can share, I'm gonna. I can share it to the owner so they understand. Then I can share it to the maintenance guy, who he's like okay, he can digest what's going on, it's documented what needs to be done, yeah oh yeah, pictures of it, yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1:Wow, that goes a long way. I used to bet that does, and video's okay, but it's harder, yeah, to keep up with. Then I was trying to save it and then I was losing my links and inspections and it stays there on the file. So we get the report from the inspection report, we save it and then in two years, hey, what, we had to briefly look when that person moved out, or or they moved in. Oh, here we go and then we get to use tenant like inspections as well. We can say hey, mr mark, please fill out the inspection report. Now it's not all.
Speaker 1:They can hide stuff but, you can also get at least an idea of what it looks like. So it's been. That's one of the things that I've had to plug into the business to make sure that, okay, I can't do it all, but we can have tools and people to make sure that we take care of things man, in today's time too.
Speaker 4:It's. It's insane the amount of new tools that are coming to the market, I mean continuously. It's. It's insane the amount of new tools that are coming to the market. I mean continuously. It's overwhelming. But I think that you have to be able to continuously adapt to that and involve with whatever's along the line, because if you don't, you get like I mean you can get knocked back. I mean saving yourself a tower you know on every single unit that you're going to, or 15 minutes like that pressure to continuously innovate. That technology is imperative.
Speaker 2:I'm glad you brought up the tools thing because in property management in particular, there really have been some great advances there. Have you know? So you can. Someone can apply online, you can check their credit, you can vet them out. That way you can collect their rent electronically. Boy, is that a better than chasing them for checks. Okay, that's a huge deal. And then you can document all their complaints and then how long it takes you to respond. Kpis, yeah, I mean. I think all those and those tools are very affordable. Now, what do you use for that? I use KPIs. Yeah, I mean I think all those, those and those tools are very affordable. Now, what do you use for that?
Speaker 1:I use Yardi, Um, and they're the one of the bigger property management tools out there. Um, I chose Yardi cause I I really like commercial. So Yardi, when I first started, allowed me to add some commercial clients in the beginning and allowed me to plug in there with working through commercial leases and all those things. So I use Yardi for all my tenant owner portal and, yeah, every morning that's what I log into and see how we pay our vendors, how we pay ourselves.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic and keep track of everything. There's a lot of tools, and some are better than others. That I've been learning more about are the ones and sometimes you know, I get upset with yardie or others like I'm gonna switch. Well, that's a nightmare.
Speaker 2:It's so mission critical you can't pull the pull.
Speaker 4:That's the reason for the 8 to 10x multiple. Is that's so god dang sticky. It's really unhook. You cannot, I think so I love that. They love that stuff. Right, we got you now you already.
Speaker 1:I'm like man well, I just gotta figure out how to get.
Speaker 4:There's no way I'm gonna change it but you know the value back to your kind of recurring thing, like if you're using really good tools that are providing you know substantial value time and you apply that to your clients. You become sticky along with those tools. You see what I'm saying you do yes.
Speaker 1:And now, yeah, my tenants are ingrained in them, my owners are ingrained in them.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they're used to that. Yeah, because if I had Brian as my property manager and I got mad at him and I want to fire him, and I talked to another property manager and I really like this inspection report, sure, exactly, and I'm talking to you and I'm like, so how do I get my inspection reports? Oh well, I mean, I'll get that to you once every three months. You know well how do you send?
Speaker 4:it to me. Well, I'll, I'll have to meet with you and I'm like with mine, because that point, yes, yes, yes, I love it yeah, no touch.
Speaker 2:Why aren't we in the property management business? I don't know, maybe we should just make. Let's get rid of all this other crap that doesn't make money we're gonna call it CBA property manager.
Speaker 4:What's that? The opposite of ABC yeah, so love it.
Speaker 2:You know, let's call it A-A-B-C, then we're.
Speaker 1:I called my ABC because one it's simple and I didn't want to put my name on it. Yeah, and then my wife's name is Erin and my name is Brian Clark, so I was like oh. Oh, how sweet.
Speaker 2:Isn't that nice.
Speaker 1:But it's simple, so sweet, instead of like Clark Real Estate, where's Clark, where's he at? I don't know where Clark's at.
Speaker 2:Well, there's other Clarks around here too, in this town.
Speaker 4:Well, no, but it also allows you to. I mean, you know, that's one thing is like having a business name. Like I've always been a believer of that, I've never put my name on a business Right. Because business right? Because you, you create that so that the entity becomes something other than you. You're just a part of it and you can sell a daggum thing without it having that's such a great point.
Speaker 2:I mean, like, mark's, why gank our building and development company? I mean we never even tried to sell it. It's too tied to me. We had assets. We had assets though. Sure, yeah, but but you're right, I mean it's. It's a really good point, yeah, and so it's awesome. I mean so what are your plans ultimately for this business? Do you plan on ramping up to a certain point and exiting? You have other vertical integration. My plan has been.
Speaker 1:when I started was you know, let's just keep this and roll it and keep it going for generations or whatever, but that's changing. Especially with some of the stresses that I've had Life's too short I say, well, I've been telling myself or I told this to myself last year I'm in this business because I get to spend more time with my family. Yeah, I know, not true.
Speaker 2:Not really. They're here in the room with me, but I'm on the phone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my brain is over here. I'm waking up at three in the morning, got this going on. I don't, I don't have a like a direct. Right now it's like keep growing it, I think right now it's like massaging it, like making sure that we get it to where it needs to be. Yeah, uh, definitely gonna be. There's gonna be some things that got to decide which way we want to go. Cause, right now it's like commercial, residential, that's that's rolling. Residential is easier to get. Commercial is more relationship driven. I enjoy commercial, but I can't do everything and so it's changing as we speak. I mean I think it's like I think still, I think I, so it's changing as we speak. I mean I think it's like I think still, I think I want to. I want to be in real estate, I want to be in property management, but besides that, I don't have like a. I mean maybe I'd sell it one day yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Well, I mean, I think you know, as long as your key point's growing it right, you just keep growing and growing right.
Speaker 2:Whatever you do, whether you keep it or sell it, the same things apply, right? Yeah, if you just grow it.
Speaker 4:You have options. Yeah, exactly you know. Yeah, it's more work and it might become more intense, but you should be. It may not be more work.
Speaker 2:I mean, if you get there because you can afford to get the right people, yeah, and then it takes some of the stuff off your plate.
Speaker 4:You're gonna have to grow with it as the business owner, entrepreneur, right, and I mean that can be a little bit intimidating, but I mean it usually doesn't, it usually benefits in some way or another, I tend to just like the make ready business that I created.
Speaker 1:my brain keeps going that way of like okay, I have ABC, I have make ready. I'm like, well, what else can I build? And all kinds of things pop in my head and I didn't have that mentality or that entrepreneur spirit, I would say, until a couple years ago. Because I was building this one, I didn't think, oh, I'm going to create ABC and then I'm going to do all these things. No, I just thought, real estate, stick with it. But now it's like I have all these experiences from my past even from, like, being a teller at a bank and being a fly fishing guide and all these things of years ago, it's like. So my brain goes more towards well, what can I build next? Or what can I build? You're sticking like an entrepreneur.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it. It's me excited as hell you've made the transition.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. Thanks, jeff, I got a badge, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's like my wife's ex-husband, who's a really good friend both of ours when we got married. I don't know if I told you about the text he sent me. He goes. I don't know whether to congratulate you or send you my condolences. Yeah, I bet it's false. But then he also said in all caps gabby is not my dog, exclamation point. Exclamation point because he didn't want the dog. But yeah, it's kind of like that. Welcome to the world of entrepreneurship. Yeah and um, there's pros and cons associated with it. There is, but the opportunities that you've created for yourself now and the lack of dependence on your employer with all these different clients. You can get fired by somebody and brian's still in business, yeah, if you get fired by walmart, so you're you're out. Yeah, you're out of business. You're on on the street. Yeah, exactly, I mean, that's valuable, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It is At the same time my wife's like well, you know, all my owners are my employer, Sure, so some are worth more than others, Yep, and I take all of them serious. So it's like, man, when I have a hard conversation. Oh yeah, so the pendulum swings both ways, that's true. I can't do that man like yeah, you know, this owner calls me and I'm like, okay, this is important. Or this client and I'm an owner, so it works back and forth no-transcript.
Speaker 4:I think that, like you starting this, you know you had some comfort because I mean one smart thing you did and I encourage, like my girls, like they're talking about getting jobs in the summer or whatever between school I'm like get something you're passionate and interested in Amen, yes, jobs in the summer or whatever between school. And like get something you're passionate, interested in learning, man, yes, you know, I mean just like like you did with lindsay. Like I mean like, okay, you're interested in real estate, so you'll work for a real estate company and stay in it and stay, yeah, stay in it.
Speaker 3:Keep learning that and get into the industry you want early yeah ready to level up your show at podcastvideoscom, we offer industry-leading recording and expert marketing to help your show reach more listeners, From creation to distribution. We've got you covered. Visit podcastvideoscom and elevate your podcast today.
Speaker 2:Everybody asks me that. You know I mean, I teach students. They're generally seniors. Most of them don't know what they want to do. Like what's your best advice? Tell them these two things A decide, know what they want to do. Like what's your best advice? I would tell them these two things a decide what industry you want to go into and take any job in it, yeah. B decide where you want to live and go there okay, yeah, it's true, because then you're building yeah, you know you're building your network and you're building your knowledge of the industry yeah, and don't get a job where you're telling you're chilling, chilling, yeah, chilling'.
Speaker 4:In the summer I'm like I get a chillin', chillin'.
Speaker 2:Chillin'. Okay, come on, man. I couldn't understand what you were saying.
Speaker 4:When you're just chillin' out, yeah, yeah, you think about okay, I'm going to only do two hours, I'm going to be able to do this, forget that. You know, like those days are over. You've limited yourself too much 100 and then yeah, but you got this, you got interested, you, you found out that you're actually enjoying it. You go work for walmart, you take that, apply to it, and then you have the confidence, yeah, to say you know what. I can do this, like I'm. I have the tools, the knowledge, I have the baseline, and then you get into it. But then this business has then exposed you to even all kinds of other things. Right, like you just start popping out the ideas. You're getting excited.
Speaker 4:That is a good life, my friend. Being excited about what the hell you're doing, amen, that's good stuff. That's why entrepreneurship rocks and rolls. Yeah, I'm still excited. You're not sitting in a cubicle dreading what you're doing, feeling like you're stuck Waiting for the weekend, right, waiting for the weekend, right, waiting for the weekend, yeah, man, I mean. And like you don't have to do that, and you know we've talked about this before. But I think the big, the big problem is is that we think that that's what work is when it's actually only been like that for about 100 years. Before that.
Speaker 2:You did what you were good at doing yeah in most cases, and usually you like what you're good at. Yeah, you notice that yeah, yeah, absolutely 100 usually you like what you're good at too.
Speaker 4:You ever notice that, yeah, yeah, absolutely A hundred percent, because you feel like you're contributing, which is what everybody wants to do.
Speaker 1:For sure. If you're students, that's where hiring too People. I've had successes and failures of hiring interns, and the ones that are successes they have a passion. They don't know anything about real estate. Right for it. If you have passion, you got to feed it, and if you don't, then well, go find your passion.
Speaker 2:I think, too, though, that you know we've hit on something that's really critical. There's a difference in having a passion for a discipline versus having a passion for an industry. Yeah, to me, the industry passion is better, because you navigate it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you can navigate, navigate.
Speaker 2:You can move within it. If you're, though, all about the discipline like I love IT or I love accounting, I can do accounting for anyone. You will not have the same career trajectory. That's true, because you've sort of defined what your role is. Yeah, instead of when you focus on the industry.
Speaker 4:Like, if you like, accounting or finance, but I want to do retail Right.
Speaker 2:Define what your role is instead of when you focus on the industry, like, if you like, accounting or finance. But I want to do retail Right. Focus on retail. Now you know retail accounting. Yeah, you've got your entry point into retail. But learn the retail industry. Maybe you can go beyond that. Yeah, that's good. You know Hell, yeah, yes, well, this has been a fun conversation.
Speaker 4:Yeah, man, brian, congrats on everything. Brother, I mean encouraging to hear your story. I'm sure people that are listening will be encouraged too, because you know what I like about this. When you were coming on I was talking to Mark, I mean that you know, a few years into it. It's neat to you know for folks to hear that, because there's a lot of folks out there that listen to us, that are toying with the idea. Yes, right, and I mean if you've been like I love your story about walmart, you know two years, the associate buyer which I think is fantastic buyer is I've got business. If I could rewind and do something, I would absolutely 100 go choose to be a buyer I get it too, if you could.
Speaker 2:I mean, you've got to be good.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, no for sure, but what you learn in that? I mean like I've met some of the most incredible people, and every buyer that I've met from Walmart is like there's something about their work ethic, their mindset. It's just like man, they're just good.
Speaker 1:They just know something that most other people don't know it's, it's a, it's a. You can't describe it until you're like yeah, do you there? It's, yeah, I. I just keep calling it retail boot camp and I will forever. I mean, it taught me more than I knew that I could learn, and knew that I could do.
Speaker 4:And I would say it's also about the way the company that you know, specifically walmart buyers Because of how the company was built upon that, how that you know those buyers are like, they're the heartbeat of that organization, yeah, and everything that they do is significant to the greater good of that organization. It's just a fantastic. I mean, what a privilege. You know, like I was talking to my middle girls, like she pulled up last night with her friend and I walked out there Because they had their freaking. They pulled up to the front. She pulled up to the front door, had her headlights beaming into my house. Did she run over like sprinkler heads or anything? I mean, dude, it was like, like, don't do that. She basically almost parked on the bush.
Speaker 2:You know, in the front door and I and I'm like what the hell I didn't know who it was and I'm walking out there like it was like aliens or something. Did you I did? Did you have like your shotgun hat ready? My dad would greet me like that at the top of the stairs when I was a kid. Like 2 am, he's completely naked. He's got his double barrel lc smith. Halt who goes there, you know? No, he didn't. Oh, he did, I do not.
Speaker 4:You'd walk in at like 2 am 2 am after hanging out. Yeah, you're out there.
Speaker 2:So you want to sneak in, or what? No, I didn't have to sneak in, I didn't ask. Did he say halt? Yes, halt, who goes there?
Speaker 1:Identify yourself. That's great.
Speaker 4:Identify. But anyway, I was going up there. She was just out there with her friend and she was talking about if she's going to go to the U of A, if she's going to go to Ole Miss, you know, and pros and cons. I was like y'all don't understand where you live and the college that you're talking about. So it's such a good college in the sam walton college of business. It's such a fantastic direction.
Speaker 2:We just keep getting better and better on our rankings and the offerings get broader and broader. You, the people you meet here I know it's network is strong people don't realize that. It's like they don't. Yeah, listen, I just got back. Last weekend I was in southern illinois for my alma mater, siu salukis. Baby, that's right, and you know that's where your dad came. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and, and so you know. But carbondale has declined. It's gone the other way and it's a shame. But the reason is where they are. They are too cut off from industry. The industry we were close to when I went there in the seventies was coal mining.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Needless to say, that's not gone up. Okay, yeah, we are here in the heartbeat of America with fortune number one and everything that comes off of that, and you're so right. I mean you want to be here or you want to be in Mississippi. I'm sorry, I don't want to run down Mississippi, but I mean there's just going to be more opportunities here. Yeah, there is as a place to start to establish yourself. Plus, it's a whole lot more convenient.
Speaker 4:You save a lot of money. You know, you're the weather, weather's better. God it's there's. There's creeks with rocks in them, yeah, instead of mud.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying I mean, I'm sorry, there's not like cotton drifting across the road that looks like litter, right, okay, it's just, I'm sorry, I know, don't tell them smart up, girl don't tell everybody though well, no why not you'd be like that, because that means we're for your empire it's.
Speaker 1:It's funny because I go to these conferences and they look at me like you're from Arkansas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't seem like a hillbilly. You've got shoes on and all your teeth. Wow, don't you miss that? I still get it. I get it too.
Speaker 1:When I go to these conferences I meet someone new and they're like okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, don't come here, thanks, california, thank you. It's so true that that stereotype it's just awful.
Speaker 4:I love the stereotype it's like you, you're sneaky. I like talking a deeper country draw. I'm talking about you down by the area because then I can sneak around. Yeah, they don't see you. They don't see me coming like a shadow, phantom, ninja hey, brian, where'd you grow up?
Speaker 1:springdale. Oh okay, so you're my springdale kid and that's kind of I. I started my business and we were found a small little office that in fayetteville and then I had the opportunity to move to springdale and it's been great. Now I get to kind of watch what's going on springdale's awesome springdale's growing I can, can walk to downtown Emma Nice Getting involved in the chamber really well, trying to really put my roots in Springdale. There's a lot of areas you can put your roots Eric's got some properties down there.
Speaker 1:I know he does. Yeah, yeah, I'll talk to you about that one. I know which property it is.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, let's chat about that. I saw it myself the other day Downtown Springdale is. We have the greatest time when we go down there yeah, yeah, great so there's. It's just amazing, it's so trans it.
Speaker 4:It's awesome talk about a transfer that part more years yes, I know even more it just keeps getting better part they put down there, the george, is a george suther park, it's called.
Speaker 2:It's fantastic, it's beautiful, it's right behind my property, yep and all those restaurants and everything and the whole streetscape improvements. It's just all for my property.
Speaker 4:it's not added to the value yet, Not yet.
Speaker 1:Not yet, but we're going to fix that. Yeah, and you got some funny neighbors, but that's okay, I do. I love them all On Springdale.
Speaker 1:The last thing about Springdale is like I went down there two weeks ago. My buddy said, hey, you want to go have dinner? I said, sure, let's go to downtown springdale to have mexican food. And then we walk out, we're done, and there's a crick race going on and they're racing bikes. Well, this is kind of cool. You didn't see this like five years ago? Oh no, I mean, when I was in high school my parents were like don't go down. Yeah, don't go down, go down there. And now it's like, holy smokes, you can walk down there and I know like, actually, so, have something going on and there's lighting and it's nice. And there's going to be even more in a couple of years when they build a hotel and then more businesses coming in, more apartments.
Speaker 2:Higher apartments are going in. It's going to be fantastic.
Speaker 4:Go straight from a building. Yeah, good investment it is. Yeah, I'm just keeping my weeds down.
Speaker 2:I went and sprayed and weeded it the other day, like 20 years ago, I could have bought those buildings for like ten thousand dollars. I mean, that's when we all should have bought that stuff, but it's still it. It's. It's got so much potential.
Speaker 1:It's the next hidden gem in this area, I think it is that everybody knows that bentonville fable has been there, rogers is where and sit in the middle of it rogers downtown too.
Speaker 2:I think it's great.
Speaker 1:It's got a lot of potential uh, but it's just great to see, I mean it's, it's this whole area. That's why there's like I've heard okay, you know, springdale is going to get to where it needs to be, and then right, something else is going to pop up.
Speaker 4:You know what? I got something to admit. What's that? I like the roundabouts and rogers. Now, oh my gosh, I do, I do.
Speaker 2:It actually helps with traffic well, actually I, I hear what you're saying. I mean at least they're properly designed. Some of the ones we have in Fayetteville are so small that you cannot drive a normal like F-150 around, the damn thing. I mean it's like they've got to be designed properly. Yeah, they do here. They're big enough that you can actually use it like it's intended. I love it. And there's like seven round of oh, there's so many of your house I'm able to not like I get dizzy. I mean I'll never forget I had my. I had the very first gps system factory available in a 1997 bmw 740. Okay, when I got it it didn't have any manuals or anything on how to operate it, but anyway, eventually, after like a couple weeks, we figured out how to use it. We were in Cambridge and we got on in Massachusetts. We got on this traffic circle. It couldn't keep up, so it just kept us driving around and around finally, we're like stop the car if you can.
Speaker 2:Okay, let this thing figure out where the hell we're going. Just had you in this circle, just had us stuck in a perpetual circle. We just after like five times. We're like, will you please? I mean, it could not keep up because of the circle.
Speaker 4:The service. They didn't have 5G back then. No, they didn't.
Speaker 1:I don't know what it was. Sounds like some of the smart cars these days. Uh, so the cars are so smart these days.
Speaker 4:It's, uh, yeah, it's a whole nother animal but well, this has been a lot of fun. It has been. Thanks, brian, for your time. Congratulations to you, man, yeah thanks, brian.
Speaker 2:We appreciate your comment and uh, for those of you who uh would like to talk to brian, what is your web address?
Speaker 1:um, yeah, abc, my website's abc-managercom. That's the simplest way.
Speaker 2:All right, abc-managercom is the way to reach Brian Clark. That's it, and it's been a great show. It has been, and I will see you all or we will be back with you.
Speaker 4:What was that? I will see like, am I out? I was talking to you guys here. I felt you. What was that? I will see like, am I out? I was talking to you guys here. I felt like you're talking to the audience, so mark you start your own big talk about some.
Speaker 2:No, I couldn't possibly do that without you. I gotta have you here. Thank you, um. So no, it's been great and we look forward to uh, hearing more about your success. Thank you, and we look forward to being together again next week. Yes, thank you, and we look forward to putting out another episode of Big Talk About Small Business.
Speaker 5:Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk About Small Business. If you have any questions or ideas for upcoming shows, be sure to head over to our website, wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscom and click on the Ask the Host button for the chance to have your questions answered on the show. Stay connected with us on LinkedIn at Big Talk about Small Business and be sure to head over to our website to read articles, browse episodes and ask questions about upcoming shows.