Big Talk About Small Business
Hosted by Mark Zweig and Eric Howerton. Our Mission is to inspire, empower, and equip entrepreneurs with the knowledge and insights they need to succeed in their ventures. Through engaging conversations with industry experts, seasoned entrepreneurs, and thought leaders, we aim to provide valuable strategies, actionable advice, and real-world experiences that will enable our listeners to navigate the challenges, seize the opportunities, and build thriving businesses.
Big Talk About Small Business
Ep. 86 - The Fundamentals of Selling Anything
Ever wonder why some businesses grow explosively while others struggle to survive? The answer lies in their approach to sales. This episode digs deep into the heart of business growth as Mark and Eric tackle the complex art and science of effective selling.
Breaking through common misconceptions, we reveal why selling has nothing to do with deception or extroverted personalities. Instead, we explore how genuine problem-solving, emotional connection, and relentless follow-through drive sustainable business growth. For technical experts or operations-focused entrepreneurs who've avoided the sales function, this episode offers a fresh perspective on why mastering these skills is non-negotiable.
From the psychological triggers that drive buying decisions to the disciplined activities that create predictable results, we unpack the frameworks that successful salespeople use daily. You'll learn why it typically takes seven follow-ups to close a deal, how your brand reputation dramatically impacts sales effectiveness, and why showing up in person still matters in our digital world.
Most importantly, we address the balancing act every entrepreneur faces: maintaining persistent sales activity while building authentic relationships that transcend transactions. Whether you're handling sales yourself or building a team, this conversation provides actionable insights to transform your approach to new business development.
Want to continue the conversation? Visit bigtalkaboutsmallbusiness.com to connect with us directly and have your questions addressed in future episodes.
I heard that yesterday about somebody whose job is to sell that the only way they could do something that had to do with data population of a database was to shut their phone off every day. I'm like what the hell? Have we got people who can't frigging multitask around here? Are you shitting me? Shut your phone off. I never shut my phone off, even when I'm asleep. My phone's on it's same. Shut my phone off so I can concentrate on data entry. Yeah, my God.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What is wrong here? Good morning everyone. Good morning, good morning everyone. Good morning, good morning Fayetteville. Or should I say good morning Rogers.
Speaker 3:Good morning planet Earth, mark. We're freaking across the globe, buddy.
Speaker 1:No, I thought we weren't. Now I thought we're all about only our country and to hell with everybody else.
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 1:Isn't that the planet?
Speaker 3:We're still across the globe. We're spreading message All right.
Speaker 1:Good, we're worldwide, we don't care about anybody else, that's right. That's right. There's no tariff on what we sell, that's right. A big talk about small business? That's right. It is available to all, tariff-free. Tariff-free, yeah, yeah, that's wonderful, isn't it? And with the communication networks we have today, and the internets of things. So, hey, welcome back. We're here with another episode of that Big Talk About Small Businesses.
Speaker 3:That was a good one. That's the best one yet.
Speaker 1:You set me up, I did, man, you make it easy to succeed, thank you, thank you, you lobbed me a softball.
Speaker 3:I did so today we're going to talk about selling which is probably the number one thing for every business owner that's ever existed and never will exist Sales, sales, sales and more sales. Baby Drives everything man. It's everything man. You often say there's only problems in business. They're either good or they're bad, and I've heard people say don't sell anymore what. I've heard that happen before. What do you mean? Stop selling, stop selling. We're overwhelmed.
Speaker 1:I'm like no no, Get your system so you can handle the demand is the answer right, that's right.
Speaker 3:Stop selling. Never stop selling. You can't, I mean? And what about growing too fast?
Speaker 1:It's never been anything I worry about. I've seen and I, you know I've probably even propagated some of the misinformation on that. Well, it's not, you know it's like. Well, the most you can grow is somewhere around 30, 35%, depending on the business, based on uh and and generate your own internal capital.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you know most businesses it's like a mix. It's like maybe we can grow by 20%, make 15%. It's a combination of the growth rate and the profitability. Yeah, but there's always exceptions, yeah, right, yeah, I was going to say just sell man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just keep selling, don't worry about that, that's right. Always worry, always worry later about what sales have done. That might be another problem. It's a good problem though. Yeah, that's a good problem when you sell too much.
Speaker 1:Again, it's entrepreneurship or it's small business? Yeah, okay. And when demand? I mean, my whole goal with marketing was always to drive demand beyond our ability to supply. That's right, because when you do that, what happens? You're going to be more selective about who you sell to, right, okay. You're going to raise your prices, yep, okay. It all comes down to when you don't have enough work, though, what are you going to do?
Speaker 3:You're going to start cutting expenses, going out of business.
Speaker 1:Lowering your prices, doing anything you can do to get paid so you can survive.
Speaker 3:Right, no, bueno, that's a bad problem, that's no fun.
Speaker 1:No, I'd much rather deal with too much demand.
Speaker 3:Yeah, not enough, absolutely A hundred percent. So I mean, like, we talk about sales though, right, sales. By the way, I'd like to start out with the fact that if you're not into sales, you could be an entrepreneur, right, and you're starting a business, but you've been in operations, you're finance, you're a tech guy. Tech guy, yeah, that's a big one, right, especially in today's world. But I mean, you know, like, when people think of sales, I don't think they give it enough credit as to how absolutely cumbersome, complex, significantly difficult it can be.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And all the tools that go with it, all the practices, the methodologies. I mean there's a science, yeah, big time science. There is a science, yeah, and so I mean I feel like that you know, as an entrepreneur, if you're starting up a business, you need to really respect thy sales.
Speaker 1:Yes, Well't respect it. A lot of people that's fair, especially technical people, because they think, oh, to sell you have to lie, right? I don't lie, therefore I can't sell. Right, it's not true. It's just not true. No, or I'm not a, I'm not a super, you know, extroverted, extroverted, yeah, big talker, that's not my style. Therefore I can't sell. Well, that's not true either, not true at all.
Speaker 3:Selling is about. I mean, you're expressing a value of which you're willing to invest in back to me to deliver that value to you. It's just that simple.
Speaker 1:It is To me it's problem solving. Yeah, as my friend Joey Book over at Lewis Automotive Group likes to say.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't sell anything, guys, I just solve problems, just solve problems, yeah, all day, every day, all kinds of different situations. If I can solve their problem, then the sale's made. Mm-hmm, there's a lot of truth to that.
Speaker 3:Very much, very much so. I think one of the first questions that somebody had asked was why people buy by tapping into emotional drivers and building trust versus I mean I have a pretty strong perspective on that. I mean like my style, I guess, of what you would call selling. I mean it's definitely more on the emotional side. You're an emotional guy. I mean I'm a very emotional person. Right, it allows you to connect with people.
Speaker 1:No, it does right, Because you seem real.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I genuinely want to connect with people right, and back to your point. I genuinely want to connect people right, like I, and back to your point. I genuinely want to solve a problem. I want to be that person that can deliver something to somebody, and that's a that's definitely an emotional thing. And so if I walk into a meeting and I'm talking to somebody, I'm literally the number one rule I have is I just shut up and listen, for the most part until I start getting on a rampage. Yep, you know, but I like to hear what their problems are, what their obstacles are facing yes, really understand. And then I can take whatever it is that I can do and how do I express that I can get that value to them to solve that problem.
Speaker 1:But you know. The other thing that you do, though, is I think there's an inherent honesty with you, Like you're not going to misrepresent what you can do Right, or you're not afraid to say we can do X, but this is going to be Y Right. There may be, it may not all be roses. That gives somebody a whole lot more credibility than the person who never, who acts like there's not going to be any issue.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying Right, sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That honesty builds trust and, of course, nobody's going to sign on the line if there's no trust. No, it's very, very true. I mean yeah, I mean the Matt Lewis thing is, first they got to know you, then they got to like you and then they got to trust you, and so you get people to know you. How do you get people to know you?
Speaker 3:What do you think I mean? The first thing I do is I ask about them Exactly. You know what I'm saying. But I'm genuinely interested, Like, what are your hobbies? What do you like to do? I mean, where do you go? I mean, what's? What's going on in your, your, your friend circle, family circle, how long? I mean what's going on in your career? I mean, there's so many things to talk about. It's not. It's not about, like you know, spitting out some sort of sports stats so I can have some sort of connection with somebody. Yeah, because I mean I don't really watch sports and I don't get into that. I, you know I don't either. I mean I'm the same way, you know. But I mean, yeah, but I mean you're another human being and I think that you're. I mean, if I'm approaching you to sell you something or to to uh do business with you like I'm, I mean you're most likely have some level of success that I'm genuinely interested in learning about you know that's it's such a good point.
Speaker 1:I think if you just ask questions of people, they'll think you're great yeah you know it and tell very little about yourself.
Speaker 1:But they'll go, wow, that eric is great, yeah, okay, yeah, I don't know anything about him, but god, he sure seemed interested in me. Yeah, like I'll never forget, one time my ex-wife wanted me to go out with her friend and her husband, uh-huh, and so I meet this guy and he was a sort of low level manager in Walmart corporate. He did not ask me a single question about, like, where I was born, what I do, nothing Could get two flying crabs and I thought, wow, this guy is an asshole. Yeah, I mean, I'm sorry, but he really was. Okay, she ended up getting divorced from the guy. Yeah, anyway, he doesn't care about other people. He didn't, he just didn't. It was just so apparent to me and I said to her it's like I don't want to waste any time hanging out with him anymore. Yeah, I mean, I like her, she's yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean I can rewind all the way back to junior high and just being able to get along with everyone and anyone.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you were good at that, knowing you Well, I mean, I just enjoyed people. You're just loved by people.
Speaker 3:I just enjoyed people, man it's natural for you. Yeah, I mean it doesn't matter where you're born, anything about you. I can get along with you and have conversation just because. I mean there's always interest. I can get along with you and have conversation just because.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's always interest. It's intriguing to me. Yes, you know that's important to be able to sell. Yeah, no, it is. I mean, that's why you're. That's sort of the starting point, for why you can be effective. Now, not everybody who does that necessarily is going to be a good seller, right, right. So like, what else do you feel is critical besides on the emotional?
Speaker 3:side, yeah, besides On the emotional side, yeah, I think on the emotional side is, I think that you know. My second thing that I'm kind of inquisitive about is what's stressing you out? Yeah, what are your problems? Yeah, where are your pains at?
Speaker 1:right or, as the cliche, what keeps you awake at night. Right, right, people say. I always say my prostate condition is what keeps me awake. That's right, having to get up and take a leak every two hours yeah, that's a big one for you.
Speaker 3:and so if I was selling, like you know, a bedpain, you're like my perfect mark. I understand, like how disruptive it is to your deep sleep that you have to get up, something like this check out my new bedpan that I have, that's getting. But I mean, like I can you know, to me it's To finding these problems, yeah, finding these problems, and it's not saying what keeps you up at night or it's not asking what are your biggest problems, it's literally just so, what's going on, how can I help? Or what you know, what's, what's your day, how's your day with my? Yeah, how's your business?
Speaker 3:And they'll tell you all the problems. Sure, sure, you know, and you're there genuinely listening, so that you can hear the problems clearly. And then you just start thinking about ways to solve those or that, how you can solve them. Then I'll skip over ones that I can't solve and I'll admit, like, if it's not my category, like I'm yeah, you know, for example, like podcast videos. I mean, if you're talking to me about you know, doing social media calendars and all this type of stuff, I'd be like, well, I can help you on the video side, but I'm not your person. You need to find a really good social agency that's really good at that. We're experts on this side.
Speaker 1:Right, that's going to give you immediate credibility, though I think yeah, because you're not saying you can just do anything.
Speaker 3:No, no, I don't do that and I mean, and so I think that that and what people want really like in putting back on the buyer side, like if I'm buying something, I want to know anything that I buy, I want to know that I don't have to mess with it. I'm trying, I'm using my money so that I don't have to money for time.
Speaker 3:Exactly, and if you can make me feel feel Because I can't validate it, like I can't scientifically, logically or reasonably completely understand that you are actually going to do that I have to feel that I can trust the fact that you care enough about my time and my money, right, that you're going to take care of this with me, be a good steward.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Of my money, and so I think that that's an emotional category, right, and it's like how do you express to somebody, how do you make them feel that you're not going to let them down? And I mean, part of it is about being passionate about what you do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and not because you want to solve a problem, right? So I think that that gets articulated, you know, through the communication. By the way, I think a big thing on this topic, you know, what a lot of people don't understand is what communication really is, and so, like there's been a lot of, I've heard this study quite a few times. It comes from different places, but there's really three categories it's what you say, it's how you say it, and your disposition, and your tone, or not what you say, how you say it, which is your tone, and then your disposition, your facial expressions, and everybody thinks that it's what you say, but that's like 20%, right? Then the other 40-40 is split between the tone and your expression.
Speaker 3:So when I'm talking to somebody, I know I'm talking like yeah, I need to probably have be better dressed if I'm going to a good, a pretty significant sales meeting. Sure, I will, I will dress like what I expect that my client is going to dress, right, you know, I mean, yeah, I would walk in a t-shirt like this if I was having a top to top executive meeting. Yeah, unless they all dress like this, they all dress like that. Yeah, no, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna play the part right, because it's a sign of respect. Yes, it's a sign of respect 100 yes, and so when I but during the meeting, like what I found out, though, is that, if I'm my facial express, my disposition is good, like I'm seemingly open'm smiling, I'm happy to be there, I'm not super nervous, you know, I'm not, I'm not wigging out or I'm not miserable or whatever it is, and so I'm expressively communicating that I'm glad to be right here and, by the way, I respect you as a person that I can do business with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm so glad you said this because there's somebody I've been working with. He's the president of a company, mm-hmm, and if you're on a Zoom call with the guys, right, it could be with a client, it could be with somebody you're trying to hire, it could be somebody you're trying to get as an investor. Whatever, he'll be like this half the time.
Speaker 3:No, no Okay.
Speaker 1:Or like this I mean, it's absolutely, that's a killer man. It just looks terrible. It's like you cannot do that. No, you look like you're not paying attention. You look like you're completely stressed and burnout. Yeah, that doesn't inspire any confidence.
Speaker 3:No, so even on Zoom calls, you see these things Shoot telephone calls, I wouldn't say even emails yeah, like your tone is communicating. Oh yeah, there's no doubt about it, you know. And so, on the tone part, like I think that comes down to you know, we've heard this cliche like if you don't believe in your product, you can't sell. But there's a lot of truth to that. You have to have passion behind whatever you're doing, and I've seen a lot of salespeople that lose their passion and they just don't sell as much. They're living in this box of misery and that's being communicated to your client every single time.
Speaker 3:But if I'm walking in to meet somebody, I'm genuinely excited about solving a problem. I'm genuinely excited about the marketing landscape, digital, ai, all this this stuff, all this changing, evolving industry that we have, and then it's causing massive problems and stress for a lot of people. Yeah, that's why I get excited about because I'm the one that's going and spending burning midnight oil to figure the freaking hell out, to put all my history attached with the new stuff and I figure it out so that I can help other people to be successful yeah, you know what else, though that you?
Speaker 1:I think you do that. Maybe you're not even cognizant of part of your excitement, yeah, of this meeting is that you may make a new friend. Yes, okay, I love connections. You do. You love that. Yeah, I, I can see that and that comes across to people. Yeah, but it's genuine. But but what about people who are out there right now and are like, oh, that's all great, these guys control their businesses, they sell what they want to sell. They should be happy, they you know whatever. Okay, but here I am. Okay, I'm here.
Speaker 1:I was talking with one of my former students just this morning, early this morning. He is selling life insurance. Okay, he goes, the company is pushing us to sell term policy or whole life policies to people over 60 to cover at least six or nine months of their house payment. 60 to cover at least six or nine months of their house payment, so their kids can deal with getting rid of their house when they die and not have it like go into immediate foreclosure because they've got no cash. Okay, because, do you think that's a good idea or not? Because I'm not sold on it like hell, I don't know. Right, I don't think about things like that.
Speaker 1:Necessarily you know what I'm saying that seems like, wow, you're down to that level of where they have absolutely no money at all. Yeah, and they're not even going to be able to make the house payment the first month. The person dies. That's a pretty, that's an audience. That's, you know, that's a lower income audience. But he goes. I'm not sure that's a good thing and I'm like, wow, that's going to be hard for you to sell it. Yeah, if you're not sure that, that's a great solution for people who are in this position, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, my, my thing to sell that, well, my thing would be, is that, like you know, can you, we can all do this and we do it all the time. We make judgments, we have opinions really quick on things and we look for the negatives and stuff right, whereas I mean, if I was in this situation Well, that's true too I would dig into that, like understand, like there was a reason this was created, most likely Based on a real need.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, I got it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like Because people did end up in this situation. Right no 100. So there's right. Genesis of this, of this product. Right is based on potentially real need. You need to go figure that out. Right and very good point, and I would say that you have to. I didn't give them that advice I wish I had. Well, I mean the thing, go back after this meeting.
Speaker 3:This applies to everything, but especially with selling, if you don't have a greater purpose in what you're doing then I mean, that's a big mistake and that goes, it doesn't matter what position you hold, but especially in sales, because you have to, you have to be aligned to that purpose. And then, if you're doing life insurance, you have to think and you have to believe that I'm in this business to really help protect people, sure, really help provide these, these things, yeah if you're not sold on that, forget it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're probably not going to be able to do it. No, I want to step back for a minute now on something about selling. Okay, that I think is really important for people to understand. I was fortunate. Early on in my career, when I first got out of grad school, I went to work for a consulting firm that the founder used to be the national sales manager for Xerox Corporation. He understood how to sell, yeah, okay, yeah, he trained people how to sell.
Speaker 1:Xerox was a selling machine back in the 1960s, all right, and so he had. And then he went to work for management recruiters, which is a recruiting firm. They knew how to sell. Yeah, they had a sales management training program. And he I was so lucky at 22 to work for somebody who was a quote sales manager, you know, who understood. He taught me some things that I've never forgotten that sales people need to understand. If you really want to sell now again, I'm not talking about us as entrepreneurs and small business owners yeah, necessarily, I'm. I'm broadening it to anybody who sells for a living yeah, you got to have a discipline yeah they focused on the activities.
Speaker 1:How many outbound calls did you make? How many people did you get through to? How many proposals did you make? How many proposals did you close? The activities that lead up to the sale? As opposed to, mark brought in $100,000 a week. That's what he focused on, always on the activity. He taught me that if your activities are in line with what they knew, based on tens of thousands of independent events, the results would come out the other end 100. I think a lot of people don't understand that. That level of work is also the way that you get experience. Yep, and if you're out there just pounding away at whatever you do, whether that's emails, phone calls, texts, however it is, you're trying to prospect. Okay, you do enough of it, you're going to be successful.
Speaker 3:Man, I 100% agree. That's the non-emotional, logical side of selling. It's the work. Yeah, it is. It's the grunt work. It's been proven time and time and time again. We actually have goals that we set on the revenue side of our business, our KPIs. But it starts out with how many phone calls you make. A hundred, you need to do a hundred a month. If you do a hundred a month, you're going to have X amount of meetings, yep, and out of those meetings you're going to have X amount of presentations and out of those presentations, you're going to have X amount of opportunities.
Speaker 3:Yes, out of those opportunities, you're going to have x amount of closings. Yep, right, and then that's how you can measure that, and so I mean you should be calling like there was a time, like I'm fortunate. I wish I could get back to it and I've tried a couple times. But being an entrepreneur, you don't have just one job of selling, like I wish right.
Speaker 1:I know you can't devote your entire day to it. You can't right. And unless you're, you're at least not just selling customers, you may be selling other people, everybody.
Speaker 3:Employees everybody right? Yeah, investors, bankers, I mean parents, liars, whatever the hell, yeah, you know, but I mean. But, like, if I remember when I was just in pure sales mode and but there was, I had so much energy, are the, the, the source of energy for everyone and everything? Yes, you're the source of energy for your company. You're the source of energy for your clients. The market yeah, but I would wake up like I didn't count how many times I would call. All I did was call. All I did was email. All I did here's the big thing is, I showed the hell up. There are people getting together every single day in every single community. They're meeting, they're networking, they're, they're collecting, they're eating lunch. There's something you got to show up. I'm telling you, vince be present in person. You cannot held out and behind a computer all day long.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a problem with a lot of young people. Yeah, I mean, you know again, like I was always encouraged by my bosses, I think of the first three companies I worked in before I started my own business they all encouraged me to get involved with the professional societies the chamber of commerce yes, the client, uh, uh, you know, trade groups. It was invaluable to me. Yeah, the people I met. Some of those people I still know today 100, 40, 45 years later and they became very good clients of mine and it got my name out there and so you're absolutely right about that. You got to show up, you got to get out there, press the flesh, meet people, you know I mean, like here's the.
Speaker 3:The thing about it is is that you can't look at it as transactional. No, you know what I'm saying. You look at it as relational, and that's so much more fun it is isn't it like? And you know what I? What I want to wig out is yeah, anytime they're saying man, that's not a good meeting, you shouldn't take that meeting, you shouldn't go have a coffee with this person, you shouldn't, you shouldn't, you shouldn't. That's a waste of time. There is no such thing on planet Earth as a wasted time meeting with anybody.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you said that, okay, because here's how that applies in my mind to selling and I know you've experienced this before. Okay, and a lot of logical people. Let's say I worked with engineers my whole life. Whenever you start talking about selling, they inevitably want to know, well, who are the big clients out there? Let's devote all our energy only to the big ones that have potential, that we know have work. Okay, right, I never subscribed to that theory. I never once did.
Speaker 1:I'm like those are the people that everybody's going after. I like building my business with all these other people who are not getting called. I'll never forget I called on this one company when I was young and I worked for this engineering firm, like 25. The guy I get him on the phone he's like he calls another guy over. He's like Bob, you got to listen to this. This guy is with an engineering firm and he's actually calling us to try to sell us services. It was a novel thing. Yeah, he had gotten called before. That's crazy, okay, but I'm just saying why is that preoccupation with all these logical people only for going after the big fish and then they ignore all these other people out here who have means and maybe they'll turn into a big fish someday.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's the thing is. You want to be in their mind when the decision time comes. Yes, yes, yes, not when they're in the middle of trying to figure things out right and yeah, and that big money flow. The bigger the clients, the the more strenuous the rfps are, the bigger the more people who are involved, that are, you're not in touch with attorneys and purchasing.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3:It just gets all this, this and then you got all this political drama that happens. You can have the best. I can't tell you how many fantastic I mean slam dump meetings that I've had with clients.
Speaker 1:It was shot down by somebody else completely.
Speaker 3:After the meeting. He wasn't even involved in it. They made the decision or had an influence. Or they're like oh, we already got that, yeah. Or oh, that's good information, let's just do it ourselves, yeah. How many times is that? Oh, dude, I'm sure a million times, all over the place in big corporations, and I love working with smaller businesses, I love working with the up and comers right?
Speaker 1:Well, it's also makes your business more resilient and you don't have that client concentration risk that devalues your company when all your work comes from one client yeah, or customer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think it's also like a challenge to me, like I actually talked to one of our clients yesterday. I called him up and I was like it looks like the stuff that we're doing for you, our service, is working. Yeah, do you feel that way? Yes, I've seen more traffic.
Speaker 1:You weren't afraid to ask that question.
Speaker 3:No, yeah, no, I want to know. I want to genuinely know that what I'm doing and you're paying me for freaking working. I need to know that, sure. And then I'm like, okay, that's good, we're on the same page today. But then I brought up another point. I was like can you prove that what we're doing is working? Well, I mean, it's hard to tell, but we feel that way. I'm like, good, I agree, I'm feeling the same thing, but I want us together to prove this, because I want you to know for certain and me to know and that's a hard thing to do in advertising right Is to genuinely prove that what you're doing is actually working.
Speaker 3:And so that conversation led into. Here's what we need to do. We, we believe, together, this is working. Let's make some improvements quickly to prove that value. And then, if that's the case, what this is telling me is that we can double down. I was gonna say do more of it. More of it, baby. Yeah, so you might be doing a thousand dollars right now, a month, we can get you to two thousand bucks. Let's walk into it. But man, man, I think we're onto something here.
Speaker 1:Let's win the freaking gather. Why don't people? Instead they'll just sit back and celebrate We've got a good client there. Okay, yeah, not. Like. What else can we do for this client? Oh my God, okay, oh my God. It drives me crazy. Thing though, I experienced with like direct mail or email. It's like we did this email. It worked great, all right way to go. My response is always like how many more people are you going to send that out to? What are you doing it again? They haven't even thought of that no, I know, it's like you.
Speaker 1:My biggest clients, my biggest clients have always started with a really small job of course you demonstrate your capability, yeah, and, and the fact that you're willing to do that and be of service, the biggest thing.
Speaker 3:If I have a new prospect I'm talking to, I just want to sell one small little thing. Let me get a taste. Give me a little taste, a little sample of that rock yes, a little sample and then when I get in, then I can start proving okay, we can execute there. We're fair, pricing, exactly, we build trust. I will never let you down. I will die before I fail you. Yeah, that is also a big mentality. That's what a salesperson and an entrepreneur has to have. I have literally visualized myself crawling on College Avenue in Fayetteville back in the day, bleeding and crawling across the street and dying in the street on behalf of the clients, and that, to me, is how far I'll freaking go.
Speaker 1:That'd be a terrible place to die because it really looks like hell. North college, that's not. It not if it was for the sake of the business.
Speaker 3:That is honor and glory. Then everybody'd be like dude eric died from working so hard. I'm telling you, what honor is that? I mean, what else are you going to do? Die from being bored and playing? No, but I mean, you've got to believe in that so much that you don't fail. If I sign a deal, I really honestly, I don't fear failing them. Don't fear failing them. I fear of our team not having the energy and the passion and the purpose to execute for the reputation, for the good of the company. Like all that stuff is going on my brain, right, but is it on everyone else's brain? That's where I think an entrepreneur or business owner has to be really caught. Now that turns into management oversight, right, and also just letting go a little bit, because they won't ever be you, but anyway.
Speaker 1:But I didn't mean to interrupt you. You got me thinking about it when you're talking about how do I get this across to the rest of the people in the firm or the business, to that certainly not. A panacea is to constantly know what your ideal target customer is, what drives them, what motivates them, what excites them, what their typical problems are. Not any one individual specifically, yeah, but knowing who your target customer is and everybody in here knowing who the target customer is and then getting them all geared around that, yeah, the way they dress, the way they speak, the way they, you know, the way they communicate, the means that they use to communicate that's an important point.
Speaker 1:To sort of rally, to give focus 100% To who it is that you're really going after, to give focus 100 to who it is that you're really going after, because it's like you know, I I mean I, it's it just to me it's like you know I had a san francisco office for years, yeah, and let's just say you have somebody out there who deals with clients and they talk like this and they go up at the end of every sentence and everything is a question and they're out there selling our services to somebody in friggin kansas, who's like a former military officer, now owns his own business. Like you, can't talk like that. Okay, you cannot talk like that, all right you have to mimic and mirror your clientele.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's where who's our target client, though? Well, that's, that's see what I mean. That's such a good point for the, for a business owner, because there's such there's this trend of this discussion about company culture and having a cool company culture and you're unique and all this stuff and you promote it all over socials. But if your company culture is not aligned to your target audience, dude, so true, like you, you're gonna hurt yourself right, I, I, years ago.
Speaker 1:Years ago when, when facebook just started to come, get popular, yeah, I had a client that was con, that had like a marketing person. They constantly put stuff on facebook and all they put on there was party after party after party after party, nothing about what the firm did at all. And I said to the CEO I'm like Jesus, if I read your Facebook, it looks like all you people do is have parties over there. You'd be the last company I'd want to call.
Speaker 2:It's like you're right.
Speaker 3:Like I pay you money so your team can go have a good life and party. That's not why people pay money. I don't pay money to support other people. I pay money to get things back for my money.
Speaker 3:Yeah exactly that's what people think. It's so funny that you said that. But I mean, it's all about matching who your client is, and that's just out of complete respect. Yeah, like you know, I mean, if I work with walmart and they communicate and they're using teams or whatever, or zoom, guess what I do use teams, there's yeah, dude, right, I don't like hello man, let's use google me, that's all I got, that's all I want. I mean, no, dude, you, you match, you match with it, or do they want in this format? Or do you put it in this system? You know you don't go against the grain. Yeah, because it's what your culture's doing right and you don't like.
Speaker 1:Try to shove your political value, orientation or your values down their throat, either right.
Speaker 1:That's why my business, I don't allow any of that discussion again you know, and this makes me sound so insensitive If I go back 30 years again, I'll take my San Francisco office. The manager of that office used as a pronoun S slash he. Okay S for everything. Okay S, slash he. I'm like where'd you get that? That's not again. I got a client in freaking iowa. They don't know what s? Slash he is.
Speaker 1:You could say he or she, sure, but no, she wanted to make a point of the s comes first. Slash he, even though the sort of conventional uh uh use of of a yeah either, or would have been he slash she, yeah. Do you see what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But just to force that one little thing. It is something new to make a point, just to make that point. I'm gonna make that point like. You can't do stuff like that, of course. Course they thought I was crazy. Yeah, okay, or some kind of a monster. That would be important to me. But I know I can anticipate how that's going to be received because I know these people. As you say, yeah, yeah, I know my target customer Stick with the game man.
Speaker 3:I mean, why make it more than what it is? Yeah, exactly. And don't you want to get a paycheck? Don't we want to earn money? No, I wouldn't. It makes everything go around.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I would impose my value system on you, that's right, and shame you, that's. That's not business. Okay, that's your personal life. Yeah, and boy, dude, I'm gonna keep those separate. 100, 100.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm not gonna put my personal life out there on facebook, so, or whatever, so people can line up on one side or the other you know, I think that it's worth talking about a little bit about, like you brought up, a little bit about, the organizational tactical process, but like another big thing today that I think can really and it stumbles me, but they can stall out a lot of businesses are the organ or the softwares and the processes, sure the, the crm or whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean right, it's like you can just get god, you can get sold just out of whack. And then the automation of all leads and and all these processes, like man, I mean there there is. There is a level of and especially with the ai stuff, like people can get really twisted up in this too, but there is a level to where, like it makes better sense just to freaking do the work. Yeah, I know, you know I mean you're better off to start out with a spreadsheet, numbers wherever you're going, and just work that plan, work that plan right. It's better to make more calls than it is to build some sort of automated system that might potentially make calls for you. And then you're now you got to hire a team of people that know how to automate all that and keep it in check. You know, like you don't really need that much as a single salesperson starting a business. No, that's so true just something.
Speaker 1:That's your rolodex dude.
Speaker 3:That's what in the old days, that's what it was yeah, yeah, I mean, we got this big business happened back in the day. Yeah, you know what that? Now, if you're starting a software company where your entire audience are global and there is it's tech touch, and so you don't, you don't anticipate other people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, yeah, and there's no communication to a human between you know you're supposed to transact online. That's a different process, right, you know. But for most businesses like, just keep your spreadsheet, you know, and just make the calls show up, that's where the most of the money is going to happen. So don't get stuck in it. And I would say, say, on CRMs, don't overcomplicate it. If you buy a lossless to Salesforce, they're going to try to graduate you into the marketing cloud and then all these other tools and all gets too complicated.
Speaker 1:You want to keep it simple. Very much so, or it won't be maintained at all. Right, the complexity ruins the implementation.
Speaker 3:You don't need everyone's birthday and their wife's name and all that kind of crap. And, yes, how many times you've talked to them, gosh, I know. Keep them in their running report. You have your opportunities. What was the deal? Just be simple with it, yes, and you can get a lot more done.
Speaker 1:Well, the discipline. The problem is with a lot of businesses that I've dealt with before. When you start talking about crm implementation is when the top people don't use it. Oh yeah, or they think they can delegate that to their secretaries or admins like here add these 20 people in here, whatever, that always breaks down and fails you, or send all those to so-and-so over in marketing and they'll do. It's got to be something that people are really actually interacting with on a continuous basis throughout the day.
Speaker 3:Number one rule in cr, known this hygiene, is data quality. Yeah, good data in, good data out, bad data in bad out. I mean in as a salesperson or as the entrepreneur which you are, a salesperson like yes, always selling need to make sure that your data in there is accurate, so that way you can use that tool to help you scale out a little bit more about what you're doing. But you can't trust anybody else with it, yeah, unless you're relentlessly watching.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I think it just doesn't get done. You know, that's another thing I just want to talk about again, at the risk of being a broken record, because it hardly, we hardly do one of these shows where it doesn't come up, and that's the idea of responding quickly. Oh yeah, in selling, it's everything. It is, it's absolutely everything. We had it everything. I noticed Brian Clark mentioned it on our show, you know, like Friday afternoon he's like the only guy that gets it.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's so, so true, and I got something for everybody that's listening. It's hard, I get tired, I'm exhausted, I don't want to call, don't you want balance?
Speaker 1:in your work and personal life. Yes, any balance, of course I want, you need to completely shift out.
Speaker 3:No, I would rather work like a dog and win. If you want to win, you gotta answer the phone, you gotta call.
Speaker 1:You are the greasy I heard the grease to the wheel man I heard that yesterday about somebody whose job is to sell that the only way they could do something that had to do with data population of a database was to shut their phone off every day. I'm like what the hell? Have we got people who can't frigging multitask around here? Are you shitting me? Shut your phone off. I never shut my phone off, even when I'm asleep. My phone's on it's same. Shut my phone off so I can concentrate on data entry. My God yeah.
Speaker 3:What is wrong here? I remember about a decade ago I was at a. I was working with a title company and we had one of our real estate agents in there at the closing with their client Right, and her phone goes off. She gets up in the middle of closure. She, she's like gotta take this. This is my income. Yeah, she, oh, I mean, dude, she doesn't miss a phone call. Baby, exactly, don't miss them. Like you got. Like I know it's tiring, you know, and I mean, yeah, but you gotta take them, man. I mean you always have to be, you have to be responding on the emails. I mean it just requires that. It's so true, and it doesn't mean that you're 100% all the time. Like Mark Zweig, if you drop down, you have got to pick yourself back up to be that greasy wheel that's going out there. And, by the way, there is a rule of follow-up. It takes seven follow-ups, I know.
Speaker 1:It takes seven follow-ups.
Speaker 3:It takes contacts to get yeah, to get a deal done. Yeah, a lot of people think they got this opportunity. You write the scope, sit it over and you sit around and you wait, your fingers cross, and you know I don't want to bother them, hell. No, I mean, you stay on top of that because the longer that that time span goes, the greater the odds are you ain't gonna go ahead. That's right. And people, what? The second that you deliver that scope is just like we talked about earlier. They're gonna talk to somebody else and everyone's gonna shed a little bit of doubt, just a little doubt in here, to make them go. No, I thought this was a good decision, but maybe nancy's right, maybe her brother or whatever can do this better than what are cheaper, yeah, cheaper, yeah, faster, her brother or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's so true, isn't it? Yeah, but but see this now. I'm glad that came up, because now I want to go back to marketing as to way it helps me sell. Yes, okay, yes. The value of your brand sell, yes, okay, yes, the value of your brand, yep, and the familiarity with it. It absolutely reduces the risk of that purchase decision for that client or customer. It's not all in the hands of the salesperson. The best example of that I used to have this case years ago in my small enterprise class.
Speaker 1:New United Motor Manufacturing Inc Made the Toyota Corolla and the Chevy Nova. It was a joint venture of Toyota and General Motors. They're made here in the US. Okay, the same car. One's branded a Nova, one's branded a, a geo prism or a toyota corolla all right, same car coming out of the same plant, coming out of the same assembly line. All right, identical other than the labels and maybe the grill. Yeah, toyota outsold gm like five to one or more, and they sold the cars for eight or $900 more than what GM was getting for the same car. Why the brand? Yeah, the brand sold.
Speaker 1:Chevy dealers are selling these other ones. They're out there. Hey, little buddy, tell me about yourself. Yeah, I'm going to sell you this. What are the payments? You know a Toyota dealer. They're like we're taking orders. We've got three cars coming in in five weeks White, white or white. Which one do you want? Right, okay, yeah, they don't have to sell hard at all because they've driven the demand with their marketing and have created such a great brand. We all know a friggin toyota corolla is a good car, no question about it. Now, maybe chevy's we don't have that same feeling about.
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Speaker 1:And so that's another thing. I think, If you want to sell effectively, do the other things that you need to do with your marketing.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 1:That creates the setting, that reduces the risk in the client or customer to hire you, and it's familiarity.
Speaker 3:It's just that's all there is to it it's credibility yeah you know it's and and if you have quality like like what drives me nuts is like I'll still see them like and the construction trade's the worst on the planet with it, Terrible logo identities oh my God, I mean ferociously bad.
Speaker 1:Always lost, always on a white truck, always with letters that are too small, always just confusing and non-memorable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, In every way.
Speaker 1:Your brand demonstrates the quality of work that you do Absolutely true, yeah, and the truck's a pile of crap too, I might add, right Filthy quality of work that you do, absolutely true, yeah, and the truck's a pile of crap too, I might add.
Speaker 3:Right filthy yeah by the way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't clean your stuff right, keep it updated like I mean all that stuff is part of your brand identity.
Speaker 3:Yes, it is, delivers familiarity and credibility to your sales process. Yes, I mean, did I tell you the uh? What is? It is a pinky window cleaning. I don't know, I can't remember. But anyway, I mean, they have a fantastic brand and their videos they show them working, everyone's dressed nice, right, you know, and they have their, their brand on their uniform and if you need your windows cleaned and somebody reaches out to you from pinky, yeah, they're probably more likely to use them right yeah?
Speaker 1:than abc windows.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean you can go look at a website, you go, oh, they're credible. Like you don't even have to read anything, you just like oh, this is well put together. Yeah, they know what they're doing. Yeah, they have a phone number up there. I can get a hold of them. All these trust marks that's your brand, like can I get a hold of you if there's a problem? Yes, do you look like that? You know what you're doing. Yes, you know there's your. If you don't have pay any attention to your own company quality, how are you going to give me quality in mind?
Speaker 1:I've always been tuned into that and very sensitive to that. You know, like you say, I mean the company, vehicles, the parking lot, the signage, everything, it's all. Those are all touch points here's.
Speaker 3:another guy drives me crazy about sales, the negativity on sales. It usually comes from folks that aren't sales people. Yeah, right, but there's god. Here goes back to the bad meeting thing. But if I was when I used to go out and solicit directly in companies and I'd come back and I'd talk to whoever else on my team and they're like, did you get a hold of the president? No, he was in a meeting. Well, what did you do all day? I mean, why do you keep trying to go back there? I'm like man, I've just built relationship with the lady at the front desk or the dude at the front desk, exactly Like I talked to them today. Yeah, I'm going to go back again next week and I'm going to know this person now.
Speaker 1:Right, and then I'm going to talk to another person. I'm going to write their name down, so I remember it. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I encircle the Exactly. I don't just go after the decision maker, because you have influencers.
Speaker 1:It's the same thing with champions. If I want to deal with a company, I may go contact the CEO and the chairman. I mean, I might connect with them, but I'm going to go with some of the other people too. I want them all, all of them, baby. Oh yeah, we know who that guy is.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's right.
Speaker 3:Do you have a genuine desire just to build relationships and connecting with people? It cares just as much to me if the front desk person believes in our company as much as the freaking president, of course 100%, because they'll make you or break you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they all talk, they're the gatekeeper.
Speaker 3:It's the same principle If, whenever I have that great meeting, I walk out, walk out, everything seemed great, but then they go talk internally. But if they talk internally like, oh man, yeah, eric's come by a few times, I mean he's always been super polite, super respectful smile on his face yeah, it's a jerk.
Speaker 1:He acted like he didn't even want to talk to me yeah disregarding insult.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like they won't say that to the boss. Those, those are like I don't like them. Yeah, I don't know. I just don't trust them. That's all they know. But if you genuinely want to meet that person and you do care about them as a human being, I mean it's just look, man. I mean, business is an extension of living, right.
Speaker 1:And it's like it's well. That's why we keep saying work-life integration.
Speaker 3:Exactly it's got to be seamless and I look at my friend circles. All my friends are people.
Speaker 1:I work with. Oh, I know that's the way mine were for years too. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I get it Like I don't have like these are the people.
Speaker 1:I spend my time with, and it's not transactional, it's just what it turns into. Yeah, because that's who you spend time with. That I mean, uh, you know, I always felt like one of my most effective selling techniques was just calling people up and talking to them with no, no ambition. I had no does, I'm not trying to sell them anything. And I it came back to me so many times with some of my best old clients say you know what I liked about you mark? You call me up when you didn't have mean anything for me.
Speaker 3:I wasn't transactional, yeah okay that they feel it. Oh, and the second they do, they become transactional, you know, but they got. It goes back to your point, like, if you go, you know, like you're building this network there and sometimes, like you may not like, if you go to these events, like when you show up to these events, you don't go up there to sell, no, I just go up there to connect, exactly, and I go up there to build friendships and relationships.
Speaker 3:Yes, and a sales cycle my best deals. It took five, ten years to sell Right, if I was trying to sell them. I mean, that's what happens to a lot of companies when they come into a new area they don't realize the power of the community being embedded, being trusted. It takes time, it just takes time, to build that.
Speaker 1:I always use the example. I say when we were growing Zweig White that's now Zweig Group every two really, it was just like two or three times a year I would have companies like big companies. Two people come to see me, from McKinsey, for example, and go you know what we wanted to learn, like you know, just talk with you and acquaint ourselves. We're not going to compete with you guys in this market space. We're only going after the top 10 clients. We don't have any interest. You guys work with all these other people. We have no interest in that. We only want to do and I'd be like, okay, in two years you guys are gonna be gone, okay, um, because they aren't doing the legwork that it takes to claw your way up through this thing.
Speaker 1:Yep, it's just like selling and getting big client relationships or big customer relationships. It's kind of like crawling your way up the real estate ladder. I don't start out and buy my first mansion. Yeah, I buy the cheapest thing I can afford that I can spend money and time on and turn it and turn it and build it, and then claw my way up to the next one it's a little bit better and then claw my way up to the next one. It's a little bit better. It's kind of like that in selling.
Speaker 3:Totally Like if you're wanting to work with the biggest brand or biggest retailer in the world, like you, just you don't start a company and just start working with them. You don't want to do that. And you look at these okay, you probably wouldn't be very good if you did that. You'd crush you. Like you would probably fail. Yeah, but like you look at these other companies like, well, how do they get that? They're not doing, their capabilities aren't different. Well, it's you. You got to remember those people, those companies. You've usually been in the business for 20 years. They've worked their way up there and you're just over there, jelly, wanting to have their business, but you haven't earned the stripes, you haven't worked through it and built up to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is so true, it takes time. That's one other thought, though, I just want to throw out there. For those of you who are working in a company and you think you want to start your own business someday, okay, it maybe is part of the same industry that you're in, but doing something maybe the same thing the company you work for is doing, or maybe doing something that's tangential to that for the same market. That's a good way to learn. Yeah, learn the industry, don't just learn your little piece of it. That's right. Be knowledgeable about what's going on in the overall industry. You'll have a lot more credibility, and if you work in one of these other companies, you'll also maybe learn, like, some of the things that made them successful. Yeah, okay, that wouldn't hurt either. That wasn't accidental, it's part of your education. I guess is what I'm saying. If you got an interest in an industry you want to have a business, go to work for one of these other companies someday that's bigger, and add value to them, then build their business.
Speaker 3:That's business karma. It's real as hell, no kidding. You go in, and you I've seen this happen with some entrepreneurs too. They go in, they work for a company, they help build that company. Oh yeah, bring it to bigger heights, and then they go off and do their own. And now they have this respect, exactly this karma that follows them into their next.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the reputation is established. Everybody wants to support good people. Yeah, this isn't complicated. So one last thing I want to talk about is closing. I mean, and you know, if you ever saw the Glenn Gary, glenn Ross, which?
Speaker 1:is now on Broadway, by the way, a new remake of it. Yeah, okay, abc, you know, always be closing Alec Baldwin. There's a lot of truth to that. Now we are being bombarded in our neighborhood right now by door to door salespeople and, yes, it's infuriating. Okay, there's a dude that rides around on a Segway that's trying to sell pest control services. Yeah, They've got all these young people, like young, you know, clean, cut looking people, girls and guys are trying to sell pest control. That's the big thing. Yeah, my next door neighbor said a girl came to his house. He texted me because they're on their way to your house. She was on a skateboard and she's selling pest control.
Speaker 1:I said so I already had the pest control girl come up my driveway. I'm sitting on my front porch. Okay, she starts walking up my driveway. I'm like, how can I help you? Yeah, I'm here to sell pescadero. We're working in your name. I go, I'm not interested. She goes, I'd like to just give you a proposal, just the same. I'm not interested, we'll be glad to give you a price. I'm not in her. She was absolutely ignoring everything I said and you know what I thought to myself. A lot of people wouldn't be as tough and direct as I was. The fact that she didn't give up until three times tells me that she's probably been well trained 100%.
Speaker 3:That resiliency, you know Just not listening to?
Speaker 1:no, okay, and you know what I'll bet if I was like my 70 year old neighbor who ended up hiring them? All right, just give in. They just give in. Yeah, okay, give me a price on that you know.
Speaker 3:I mean, sometimes it works. I think it depends on what you're, what you're selling, which you know, who your buyers are, I mean. But a lot of times, and as an entrepreneur like you're, you're selling a service and you know, and you, there's better ways to cope about it. But there are tactics that are very good and that's a whole nother world. That's why, when we started this conversation, I'm like sales is such a big industry like it is, it doesn't get the credit it deserves. People think you just you're either a salesperson or you're not. No, there's so many tactics you can learn Right, so many processes. There is a science as we said, science and it can take decades. There's a lot of knowledge to get it all.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've met. There's a couple of salespeople that I've met in my life that I'm like they're the best, I hear you. There's one cat and I mean it's just like dude, this, this, this dude, just like breathes numbers. I mean all he thinks about is how many calls, how many opportunities in the pipeline, what's the audience? And just, he's just so relentless. Yes, and quantitative, yes, it's all numbers. But that's what he chomps, that's what he, he understands, he understands the relationship.
Speaker 1:He's badass, right, of course he does. He can't be touched. I I'll never forget I always. You know I've worked with a lot of real estate people and one you know here who's really great, particularly a great negotiator. But I think back. I I had another experience when I first moved to memphis. I was looking for a house. Cry like was the big realtor in memphis. Well, you're from jonesboro, you know they were probably there too, yeah, and so I, I get.
Speaker 1:My boss says you got to talk with this guy, erwin astro was his name. So erwin astro comes to our rental apartment and interviews my wife and I, comes to our rental apartment and interviews my wife and I. He spends an hour and a half, okay, interviewing us. I swear, every question you could think of and he goes. Okay, he goes now, on Friday or whatever. I'm going to be back and I'm going to have a list of houses that we need to look at. So, sure enough, he comes back. He's got this list of houses. He goes. This one right here is the is, I think, is number one on the list. We go, look at it, okay, and we're like I don't know. Well, we look at the other five and we got done, and guess which one? We bought the first one, the first one. He was absolutely right. He knew exactly what we needed for what we could afford. That's kind of needs assessment. He was number one at cry like at the time because there was a reason and he cared and he asked the right questions.
Speaker 1:He lived what he said. He was going to do everything. Everything well, well done. He was the archetypal sales guy. Perfect my mind. Yeah, wasn't a glib fast talker at all. Yeah, it didn't talk that much, but he just knew he's delivering what we want.
Speaker 3:He had that pattern and he had this pattern, this process to yes to do, to deliver a good value.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good chat mark oh, we could talk more about this.
Speaker 3:I think there's a lot to this subject yeah, it'd be cool to get and get a couple of really good sales people to come in and talk about, because I think business owners, you can always learn more. Yeah, things about sales.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I think it would be very good. All right, well been fun. Yeah, it's been. This has been another episode of big talk about small business. See ya, check yeah.
Speaker 2:Business. See ya, Check ya, smallbusinesscom and click on the ask the host button for the chance to have your questions answered on the show. Stay connected with us on LinkedIn at Big Talk About Small Business and be sure to head over to our website to read articles, browse episodes and ask questions about upcoming shows.