Big Talk About Small Business
Hosted by Mark Zweig and Eric Howerton. Our Mission is to inspire, empower, and equip entrepreneurs with the knowledge and insights they need to succeed in their ventures. Through engaging conversations with industry experts, seasoned entrepreneurs, and thought leaders, we aim to provide valuable strategies, actionable advice, and real-world experiences that will enable our listeners to navigate the challenges, seize the opportunities, and build thriving businesses.
Big Talk About Small Business
Ep. 87 - Why Most Businesses Die in the Planning Phase
There's a critical moment in every entrepreneur's journey when they must decide: keep planning or start doing. This pivotal decision often determines whether a business idea becomes reality or remains forever in the planning stage.
In this thought-provoking conversation, we dive deep into the concept of the "gestation period" for business ideas – that crucial time between conceptualization and execution. The longer this period stretches, the less likely you'll ever launch. But how do you know when you're truly ready?
We explore how different entrepreneurial personalities approach this challenge. Some thrive on rapid execution, quickly creating minimum viable products and gathering customer feedback to refine as they go. Others benefit from a more measured approach, especially when significant capital or industry knowledge is required. Neither path is inherently superior – understanding your natural tendencies helps you navigate this critical phase more effectively.
Fear often extends the gestation period unnecessarily. Whether it's fear of failure, fear of sharing ideas (worried someone might "steal" your concept), or simply fear of the unknown, we discuss practical strategies to push through these mental barriers. The most successful entrepreneurs don't eliminate fear – they act despite it.
Perhaps most importantly, we examine how intuition plays a surprisingly significant role in entrepreneurial decision-making. That gut feeling, combined with basic validation from potential customers, often proves more valuable than exhaustive market analysis or endless planning.
Ready to transform your business idea into reality? Listen now and discover why entrepreneurship is ultimately more about doing than planning. Your business won't build itself – take that crucial first step today.
Yeah, you're not going to climb the mountain. If you climbed the mountain before, right, you know what I mean. Yeah, what's the point of that then? Right, yeah, yeah, so no, you don't know for sure you're going to be able to. Yeah, but you're still going to try. Once again, you got to step out. You got to do it. Entrepreneurship is more doing than it is planning. That's beautiful.
Speaker 2:That than it is planning, that's beautiful, that's so true.
Speaker 1:This is another episode of Big Talk, big Talk about the small business, about small businesses.
Speaker 2:That's a good one. It gets better every time, every time I.
Speaker 1:I was just telling eric as I sat down this morning. Every day, I reflect back on something that eric has said, either on this show or out of this show, whether it's his stance on walmart and how, every time I order from Amazon, I'm I'm, you know, taking food out of the mouths of babes. Or or his great quote I was thinking about this morning at 5. It was that business is just a bunch of problems. Yeah, it's so true. They're either good or bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're not all good and they're not all good, cause they're either good or bad. I'm just like waiting for the next problem, like when's the next? Is it good problem or bad problem, are we supposed?
Speaker 1:to say all problems are opportunities. Eric, just like all failure is good, we can learn from no.
Speaker 2:No not all problems are opportunities. They're freaking. Drag. Vacuum sucks of hell, you know that's the truth.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it's just like, oh my god, I can't, and especially recurring ones. Oh, why am I having the?
Speaker 2:same problem again all the time, every day I do. I'm like how is that not clear? My, my biggest problem, honestly, is clarity, and I don't know how else to articulate. And I'm actually. I was going to the bathroom for the show earlier, yeah, and I was thinking, yeah, it was like I do my best thinking in the bathroom yeah and shower. And I was like why, how do, how can I improve on articulating vision? Mm-hmm, you know what I'm saying? Because I think that, as an entrepreneur, we don't realize that not everyone sees.
Speaker 1:They don't put it all together, they can't visualize from where you are now to where you're trying to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's all I can see so clearly. It's just like it's so clear, yes, and I don't understand that maybe everybody else around me that I work with don't see and obviously they don't see the exact same thing I see, because we're all different, but my brain doesn't register that there's a gap there, and so, therefore, all I do is talk and talk, and talk, and talk, and talk until I want to blow my freaking brains out.
Speaker 1:I know you sound a little repetitive. It's like haven't I said this a million times before. Yeah, and then I get excited. It's like haven't I said this a million times before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then I get excited, like literally. I'll tell my wife sometimes I'm like I almost passed out today again in a meeting. She's like what do you mean? I'm like, well, I talked and I got so excited and the adrenaline starts rolling. Yeah. And then my heart starts racing and I don't breathe while I'm talking.
Speaker 1:And I literally feel lightheaded. While I'm talking, you're so into it, you forget to breathe, I forget to breathe.
Speaker 2:And then I'm like, oh, why am I feeling this way? And they're like, oh, that's right, because I didn't breathe and I got excited. Well, you know, makes total sense. It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, half the time I feel like I'm going to pass out, but it's just because I stand up, ok, that's what happens when you're 67 years old. You stand up, yeah, and you start to feel like you're going to pass, ok, but but no, I get it. I mean, that's not really the topic of the show today, but I do think it's relevant because, I mean, I deal with this in every business I'm a part of, and I think the problem a lot of times is, you know well, sometimes it's that people just aren't very intelligent, but most of the time that's not the case. Most of the time it's. It's really a matter of they don't have your perspective. They don't have your perspective, they don't have your experience. Their, their perspective is formed based on their experience and their experience doesn't include yeah, this end state that you're trying to get to. Yeah, don't you think?
Speaker 2:totally no, 100 percent like it's. You know, and I think that a lot of folks like they're not opportunistic. You know they're not glasses half full.
Speaker 2:They're not seeing the light Right. You know, and I began to recognize that over the over, like I started empathizing a little bit that you know, not about the people's problems, but their perspective of their life, exactly, and like what is like even the meaning of life to them, like I mean it's troubling because I mean I think that a lot of folks wake up with the negativity and they carry that negativity and they're just waiting on something else to make them happy.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And, like you've always said, we are meant to work, we are meant to create, yeah, war zone. Okay, that's what you always say.
Speaker 1:It's another one of the things you say all the time. We're designed to work. We are, but it's true. But see, some people think work is to be avoided and only thing that's going to make me happy is buying this or going on this trip, or having the weekend, or going out and getting hammered tonight or whatever. Yeah, those things never make you happy. No, accomplishment makes you happy. Accomplishment's the only thing that comes from the work and the work and the labor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, real quick on this. I was constantly studying what's going on with AI and agentic and all this type of stuff, but I've watched a video where Elon was talking and I don't know how many people caught this truth but he was saying that there will be a day when there's no work needed to be done because of agentic and AI. But it's this world. You have everything you want, like like almost money isn't anymore because it's all provided agentically. Sure he goes, but that's you know. That sounds great, but the real problem is is what is humanity gonna? How are they going to react when they don't work?
Speaker 2:yeah, because and he even says it's like misdirection. Work is a major part of satisfaction, is is one of the primary points of satisfaction and I mean, I don't know, that's my big concern.
Speaker 1:You take that away. It's a really good point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like what is your purpose? Because you know purpose, like what else I mean? Anyway, I mean, I just felt like that I don't know that back to the point, like that people don't identify a purpose in why they're walking.
Speaker 1:They're walking into work. Why they're going to work? Well, their purpose is to make money so they can live in their mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then take vacations and have more time off.
Speaker 1:Right Like that's not a good direction. It's not a good direction. You said it. The direction needs to be to accomplish something. Yeah, but if they haven't had that perspective, then the vision doesn't really mean anything.
Speaker 2:Right. They can't catch on to what's being said by the entrepreneur of where. Here's where we're going. This is why we need to when they don't believe it's possible.
Speaker 1:Oh God, Okay, that's the other thing. Maybe they can catch on to what you're saying. How many, I mean it's like don't believe it's possible.
Speaker 2:Has it been proven in history that so many things are possible. If it wasn't for those folks that are driving possibility and opportunity like we, would not advance as human beings. We would still be trying to make a fire All progress is made by unreasonable men.
Speaker 1:Have you ever heard that? No, but it's true though. But it's like they're unreasonable, they don't accept the status quo. They believe that you can go somewhere else, and so do something else.
Speaker 2:I guess it's the doubt that, like I don't know how many times you've experienced this, but I'll be talking to the team and I'm looking around and everybody is looking at me like I'm either crazy, I've lost my mind. Yeah. I experience that a lot In total disbelief. And then you zone out and I'm like give me some feedback here. Folks, like I'm going to keep talking, saying the same thing over and over again and getting more excited, until you look at me and go, oh yeah, I want to see a smile man let's go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it makes total sense. I mean, you're in a different position than me because you've got businesses that you're trying to to grow, that you are the head of. I am behind the scenes these days. Yeah, okay, I'm the guy back there trying to get stuff done without being the public face. Yeah, and, and it's, believe me, it's a different role than what I'm used to. Just, what's the frustrating thing on that side? Because I can't directly. I have to communicate these things through other people, okay, and they don't always get it themselves, or they don't articulate it the same way I do. Okay, they, they, they're, they're too soft yeah they don't get excited enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what?
Speaker 2:I'm talking about. Oh, I do, man, I could like the idea of of having to um communicate through someone else, basically, basically brokering your vision and what needs to be done. That's challenging.
Speaker 1:It really is. I mean, you know how it used to be when you and I worked together. It's exciting right Now. Some people don't like it. I'm sure our style does make some people nervous. Oh sure they just think that you're crazy or you're unpredictable, or whatever.
Speaker 2:Out of our mind, don't know what we're talking about. Old in the way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hip shooting. Don't have enough data Data driving our decisions. All decisions must be data driven. I love that. No, no, that's not true.
Speaker 2:Don't think that baby.
Speaker 1:Well, anyway, this is a fun topic and I can empathize with you, because I do know how critical it is to get that vision across and get people to really believe that it's possible. Then they will act accordingly. But today we're going to talk a little bit about something that it's a term that I used in one of the short chapters of my book, confessions of an Entrepreneur, and that is the gestation period for a business and the importance of that. Okay, now, before the show started, you were asking, like you're sort of questioning, yeah, what, whether you need that, what's that?
Speaker 2:well, what, what is this? What is this gestation?
Speaker 1:the gestation period is is from the the time between when you really have your idea for your business and it's formed. It's more than just like a product idea, it's an idea for a business. Okay, it's formed. It's more than just like a product idea. It's an idea for a business. It's formed in your mind. The period between that time and the time you actually start it I mean it doesn't have to be long, it could- be long.
Speaker 1:My experience is, the longer it is, the less likely it is you'll start the business. That could be good or bad.
Speaker 1:It's good if you made a good decision not to start it is. You'll start the business. Okay, that could be good or bad, yeah. Okay, it's good if you made a good decision not to start it because it was not going to work, got it? It's bad if you delayed and you missed the opportunity in front of you. Yeah, but I guess my whole premise when I put this in the book was that sometimes things do get a little better with a little more time spent on thinking them out, not necessarily to say I'm not going to do it. That's one possible outcome, but maybe it changes, maybe it morphs in some way. Maybe you change the way you think how you're going to monetize this or how you're going to sell this or what this is. Yeah, that that time can be very helpful. Do you believe that? Or what do you think about?
Speaker 2:that. Well, I'm just thinking about the whole and to the audience, just so you know. I'm like, really, I was really ignorant of this term, right, I forgot about it.
Speaker 2:I forgot about that term in your book you know when I read it before, and it's a confusing phase in my brain because I'm trying to separate. So action oriented, yeah, I'm trying to separate like what is like. I can look back and say I really wish I would have spent more time on some ideas that I had. But a lot of times whenever I have an idea there's an immediate go into business. I don't fart around too much about.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, you rush to the MVP. Yes, right. As fast as you can Without thinking the minimum viable product and then see if somebody wants to buy it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess. So yeah, and in the course of that, though, you might still refine it.
Speaker 2:Let's be honest. No, well, the thing is it's constantly in refining. But to your point, I guess that there's a. If I have an idea, the very first thing I do is I talk to potential clients about it exactly get their feedback and reaction if they get excited and like it. That's good I'm yeah, and I'm just so. And then I go to another one and they have the same reaction, like boom, this is a product, this is a business, yes, let's go to market now. It's just a matter of how do we execute it.
Speaker 2:And yes, the right painting on it and the right numbers and then just go, go, go, go, go go. I am with you so much on that. So I'm wondering, like I guess that is kind of because I will. But again I would say that the amount of time that I'm in that part is really more about how fast can I like what's the delay in my client meet or a prospective client meeting with me so I can have that feedback? If it takes them two weeks, then I probably might not even meet with them. I might meet with other ones, the audibles, because I'm pushing as fast as I can Because I'm excited about the idea, but I'm really excited to know if it's a legit idea, if it's a sellable idea. So I'm like really powering through to get my answer as fast as possible, because the longer that I delay on getting this business out to market, the more opportunity it is for a competitor to come in. Yeah, freaking still, the thunder of which really pisses me off. Yep, you know what I'm saying. Yes and so well again.
Speaker 1:I mean, I do think to a certain extent, like the kinds of businesses that you like to create are ones that are all new. Yeah, okay, that's what you're into. I mean in the past you had experience going into mature industries. Okay, you did that too. Yeah, but you swing for the home run, yeah. Yeah, you don't go up there and try to hit singles and doubles I'm usually pretty happy with those you know a double is pretty good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm usually happy with that, but but that is a difference, I think. You know, when you're talking about something that's an all new invention, new business type, um, maybe the timing is more critical. On the other hand, I could say the timing is more critical. On the other hand, I could say the feedback is also more critical.
Speaker 2:Right Dude, 100%, because you don't know whether people are going to want this at all. You know I've talked. You know there's been ideas that I've had, that I've talked to some prospective clients which, by the way, are the number one people to talk to. I don't go talk to freaking attorneys and accountants. God on planet earth is an accountant.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're so a lot of times I don't talk to my wife about it because she's usually you know, but I will say that she has some very instinctual truth that I can't seem to understand how, but she's been right, very right about certain things that women are generally better. In that regard, I have a lot of respect for it. Now, yeah, like, I mean like, if, if, like, and I have a lot of respect when she's like oh no, I like that, go right, it's like that's really encouraging you know exactly, I get it.
Speaker 2:But uh, you know, like, when I go to these prospective clients, like they're getting, that feedback is um to me the pinnacle Because, like you said, there's a sparkle in the eye, there's a oh, I'd like that. That's all I need. I don't need to understand much more than that from my interview to get me out of gestation period, I guess, and getting into the business.
Speaker 1:Some people, though, I've run into more than once I think it even came up on the show before they're afraid to share their idea that somebody might quote, copy it. I'm like what? How in the world are you going to get anywhere with this unless you get some feedback from people who actually know? Yeah, you know, like your customer and I get that.
Speaker 2:I think that that's a little bit of of just being new in the game a little bit because, like I was, like that at the beginning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just, and I was really worried and people have stolen. I've had more ideas stolen from me than I have actually gotten them to market. But I will tell you this the reason they were stolen from me is because I had a long gestation period. Yes, they waited too long, waited too long and I was trying to partner. There's a difference between talking to somebody about your idea, leaving that conversation alone, or talking to somebody about your idea. They reel you in and then they start trying to partner and then they get every second all out of you and then, all of a sudden, one day they've launched something and it's a surprise to you. Yeah, that's not good. It's not good, but that's what happens a lot.
Speaker 2:Now you need to be careful about how long you and how deep you go with these discussions. Like, if I have and so I think that probably my model is is I quickly go and I am open about what I'm doing and I share. A lot of times I share too much and I walk out of the meeting going Eric, shut your freaking mouth. Like you, don't tell everybody your plans. You know that's usually my response to myself. But what I do is I have one meeting with that person and then I I get what I need out of it and then I go meet with somebody else, but then I'm out to market. What I don't do is continue to go back to the same person and reshare and reanalyze right, I hear what you're saying. You know I don't need all that.
Speaker 1:Then they're taking ownership yeah, yeah, then it because then you're saying I don't need all that.
Speaker 2:Then they're taking ownership, yeah, yeah. Then you're giving them wings to fly yeah, you got to be careful with that. That makes sense. And then speed to market disrupting. And then also, I like it when I do start something and I see the gapers come up to the surface who have stolen an idea. And you know it was them because you talked to them. They didn't even know they had a spark on the line when you talked to them the first time. And then here they are a month later doing the exact same thing that you have already launched and you can see them gaping on you.
Speaker 2:I like that because it gives me a lot of energy, makes me, makes the you know the sports competition rise up in the blood and I can find that extra energy, or I can have this extra energy to conquer yet another problem that happens to me. You know what I'm saying. So there's a lot of emotional energy that comes in. So, to your point, you need to be a little cautious about how much you talk to people and who you're often talking to, but you should be cautious about not talking about the idea, especially prospective clients. You've got to get some validation. You've got to get some validation and then even still, people are going to steal ideas. But that's what business and capitalism is all about. It's about being first and best right, and don't be afraid of competition. Play the game, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I'm in such a different world than you for most of what I've done. I'm not in this new invention world. Yeah, you know, you and I sort of depart parted paths in 2012 or 14 or whenever. Yeah, whenever you it. Well, it was probably even later than that. No, it was 12. No, I know, but then.
Speaker 1:But when you started out, you had a marketing agency yeah okay that that's not that unique oh, gotcha okay, yeah but then, when you started deciding to transform the business into something else, that's really where we took these diversion got it, got it, got it okay. But you know, so in my world, I'm dealing with generally mature industries where you're not going to be the first one there. You're going to start something or you're going to buy something, but you're going to change it, you're going to make it different, you're going to make it better than what's out there. Yeah, you know. So there's still a gestation period required in my mind for a lot of reasons. Like, do I really have a good business plan? Am I going to be able to afford to do what I say I want to do? Right, like, how much capital is this really going to cost me?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And sometimes it takes some investigation and talking to a lot of people like suppliers, and understanding timelines on things yeah, understanding, like what you can get financing for and what you can't. You know what I'm saying. You can have the idea and it's pretty well fleshed out in your mind, but until you get into some of those details, you can't see whether or not either you can do it or you'll want to do it. You know so I had a business plan that my wife and I came up with, um, and we and we.
Speaker 1:we had a pretty well thought out um prior to COVID, right, you know it was immediately before COVID, and then when COVID hit, um, and it was a good plan. I think it would have been viable. I don't know that it would have been a home run, but it might've turned into one, but let's say it would have been a at least a double yeah. But after COVID hit and you started seeing everything retract and pull in, it really made me rethink. And then I thought, holy cow, plus, we didn't know a lot about COVID. Yeah, I thought what happens if I keel over from this? True, yeah, and I'd leave my wife holding the bag with this other business on top of the other ones that she's got to deal with. Yeah, ours, yeah, and you know where she's not going to be very happy. You know I'll be dead and she'll be pissed at me, ok.
Speaker 2:I think about that a lot. So you know what they're going to do, though, sonia or Tara. They're gonna do, though, sonia or tara, they're just gonna be like, uh, kill it, yeah, kill all of it, kill it, cash it out, cash it out, kill it. I don't even care about the cash, kill it they don't want anything to do with it.
Speaker 1:well, in any case, I just use this as a specific example of where the circumstances in the external market changed and and you know, I pulled the plug on it um, because I had that time to think about it. I could have just acted, yeah, okay, maybe it would have been good, maybe it wouldn't have been good, but the fact that I had that extra time I mean the time was critical. It wasn't all in COVID A lot of that time was finding my suppliers, getting them to commit the prices, beating them down, getting people who said they would drop ship stuff for me instead of me. I mean, there's a lot of details to work out. That made the business, in my mind, better than if I just said let's do it, write a check, buy this stuff, have it all sent here and then we're going to sell it all online. It was an online-based product business, yeah, yeah, so, anyway, I do think those are two different scenarios, though, that we're talking about.
Speaker 2:You know, it makes me think like, which has been something that's been real eye-opening to me in my business career, is like there's a difference between starting something and then second stage growth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh yeah, there is.
Speaker 2:And, man, I can start a lot of things Right and I also think about I'm a zero to 20-yard line person, and then there's the 20 to 50. Yeah, yeah, 20 to ends. No, I understand that.
Speaker 1:I can see that with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I mean, like this glass ceiling of second-stage growth, of like and kind of what you're talking about, you take that business and you make it better, you get it over the hump to scalability, profitability. I love that part.
Speaker 1:See, I don't. I know I believe you, but that's fine. I mean, it's why you got to have partners. No 100%, you know, because people have different. I've started plenty of stuff. I've started like six or eight companies, but it's not what I enjoy the most. I would much rather come into a situation that's got customers and employees and products or services.
Speaker 2:I think that what I wish I would have known a long time ago is that an entrepreneur and business owners like it's just not one big bucket.
Speaker 1:No, and there's not one formula right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's different ways and yes, and there's different ones for different things at different times. Yes, right in the business and like yes, I think it took me a long time, because I feel like that, as an entrepreneur, you feel like this pressure, like whether you are better at second stage growth, but you still feel a pressure to innovate and start up, and vice versa. If you're a startup entrepreneur, you feel this pressure to like be a CEO and drive it to the next level.
Speaker 1:It's so true, and the key to success is always focusing on what you do well, okay, yes, stop working on your weaknesses, even though a lot of people say that. What do you mean? Don't work. Work on your strengths. Yeah, get other people to fill in for your weaknesses 100 because, honestly, you don't have enough time to work on all of them. You don't, and some things you just may never be good at, like, yeah, probably never going to be a great golfer, even I never played a lot, but it's just not yeah, it's probably never going to be good at it, yeah and I think it's important for listeners to.
Speaker 2:So why try to recognize that like and it's okay and you don't, and you don't have to be the all-in-one right, like I mean, and there there are some that are out there and I mean kudos to them. I don't know how they can be that like, maybe when I'm 65 or 70 I'll be there, but like as of today, like I don't have, I don't have, I don't have the desire to graduate into a second stage growth scalable.
Speaker 1:I understand that totally you know it was interesting. My wife and I watched a really good documentary the other night. You're gonna watch this because you'd like it. I think it was called being Warren Buffett or Becoming Warren Buffett. It was his whole story, his whole life story. Oh, that's cool. You know, warren Buffett is clearly I mean the guy's brilliant. At one time he was the richest guy in the country. He's given away most of his wealth at this point, but it seems like all of them do that. A lot of them do, not all of them. Some are just selfish to the end, but a lot of them do. But in any case, the thing with Warren Buffett was it was really interesting. Is he's probably Asperger's way out on the spectrum? Okay, yeah, which a lot of brilliant people. Look, I mean, I don't know a single entrepreneur he's not either adhd, dyslexic, yeah, or somewhere on the spectrum of autism.
Speaker 1:They all seem to be, yeah, um, but, yeah, you may not be, you you're probably adhd at a minimum. But in any case, um with warren buffett, it was interesting because basically his wife said, like there's just some things he's never going to be good at or do. Okay, he's just, he's really really good at at numbers and making money, yeah, but then, like, when it comes to certain interpersonal things, it's just not, it's not his bag and he's not gonna be, and that's okay. We just accept that about him. Yeah, okay, I hope my wife listens. You should watch that that. But but but the point, it is what you're saying. I mean, not everybody's good at everything. You got to know what you're good at, okay, you got to get the right partners. Yeah, different businesses have shorter or longer gestation periods. I think we both agree. The longer it is, the less likely you are to do it. That's a fact. Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure. All the reasons come into play. Why not to do it 100%? If you just launch, launch, it's too late, dude that's actually.
Speaker 2:That's one of my, that's one of my, um, I guess personal internal strategies is it's. It's funny. I know that I work best under pressure. Yeah, like, have you ever heard of the parkinson law?
Speaker 1:I don't remember it.
Speaker 2:I think I have yeah it was.
Speaker 1:Parkinson's Law. It's a management principle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like if I said do X in Y time, most people are going to wait to the last day to do it, and so it's you know. Or if it's 30 days time, you're still going to wait.
Speaker 1:Right, you'll do whatever the time it work expands to fill time.
Speaker 2:There you go, yeah, yeah, that's it, and it becomes this flow state thing that we get in.
Speaker 1:And so, um, oh, I'm a big believer in that.
Speaker 2:No, I am too. That's how I bought this whole operating school. Like my daughter's going through it, like she. She is like, I mean, when it comes to math. Like she's like like just does bare minimum and just kind of, and then, but then at the end she'd like crams it in and makes it, it makes it all come up. But she lives under this intense pressure for a week versus being logical and thinking about it.
Speaker 1:That was never my style. I always did it all along the way. See that's. I went to class, did my homework and stayed up.
Speaker 2:I feel like that, if you're listening to this, knowing how you operate, in normal circumstances, to your point, logical, non-procrastinating, yes, right, yes, and you just continuously do that. But then there's the other side of it, like myself to where last minute.
Speaker 1:My wife's like that. She needs the deadline. Then she just like, pours it on Exactly and gets it done, gets it across the goal line. But it's going to be at the last minute.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and this is one of my self-reliant strategies is that's why I probably launch, because immediately I'm like shoot, now I've got to get to work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it forces you Otherwise my gestation period.
Speaker 2:I could probably just push and push. That's an interesting point of view. I can see that, and when I was at White Spider and developing that business, I had pushed a lot of podcast videos as an idea media ideas.
Speaker 2:Oh, you always had ideas, yeah but I was just always backburning for 10 years, for a decade, just kept pushing, pushing, pushing and as soon as that hit the acquisition timeframe, it was just like boom. Everything was kind of. And then I went a little nutso, like I had like 12 companies within like three weeks, bam bam, bam, bam bam. You can ask my bankers, they felt it the most because of all the new accounts and stuff like boom, boom, boom, boom. But then you know it's gotten a little slightly better and more narrow. But I think that that point is like. You know, that's been one of my strategies to launch really quick, so that therefore I'm in the weeds of it and now I have to get at it.
Speaker 1:You know that strategy of business and entrepreneurship is that you'll start all these different things but, like the odds are that one of them will really hit big, right, yeah, I mean you know that, yeah, 100, that's the odds. The other ones, you know, I'm not saying you'll go broke, but you may just decide to abandon it, right, yeah, so that's one strategy. The other strategy is that you just do one or two things. You do them really really well yeah and, and you just focus on that.
Speaker 1:I've done both of those myself. I think I probably gravitate toward lots of things now. Yeah, it's more interesting to me. Yeah my attention keeps you short, yeah, yeah and so that keeps that just keeps you learning and and and it's more interesting. Yeah, it's not necessarily the way to make the most money. In my experience, I did better when I did one thing and did it really well.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it was another um. There was a really great video that you should watch sometime it's. I can't remember the guy's last name. It's. His first name is Siddharth, and Siddharth took over one of his father's companies it was Royal Enfield Motorcycles when he was like 26. He didn't know anything about the business at all.
Speaker 1:He went to business school. He was just a quote rich kid, yeah, okay, yeah, this. They had 15 companies. This was one of them and it wasn't doing very well at all. In fact, it was doing really poorly. Great video of how he transformed it. They're the largest motorcycle manufacturer in the world today. Wow, siddharth is 51 years old now.
Speaker 1:But the interesting thing about Siddharth was, I mean, he immersed himself in this business. He went there, he slept on the floor of the factory for four years. He moved into the factory. He got rid of all the company cars for executives and made them all ride their motorcycles to work every day. And then they got to see the problems with them, which were many. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. But these are just a lot of things he did.
Speaker 1:But anyway, he did such a great job with it that his dad came to him a few years later. It's like now I want you to take over his you know ceo of the whole thing, all these companies. He's like, okay, I'll do it, but you got to let me do what I want to do. And his dad said, yeah, you can do what you want to do. So he got rid of uh 13 of the 15 companies kept the motorcycle business and the truck business, he goes. I can have a whole lot of things that are mediocre, or I can do a couple things that knock the cover off the ball where we dominate the market.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, he went with the latter strategy. There it is, but it's a great story. But these are different approaches and I think you know again, if you're a guy like you that likes to create lots of different things and then you know odds are something's going to hit big other ones, aren't you sort of decide what you're going to be more interested in based on what happens? I've lit a bunch of fires which one's going to flame up right, 100%, obviously. I think that's a really good. That's a classic entrepreneurial approach to business creation.
Speaker 2:Well, because I think that when you have all those things in the air like external circumstances will impact business. Sure it might impact this one over here. Yeah, you know, positively or negatively?
Speaker 2:Exactly, Sometimes it's positive as you say yeah yeah, so you roll baby, like right now, like when I look at my portfolio of companies, I'm like man it's.
Speaker 2:It's actually kind of interesting that all of them are kind of like in this hotbed, like they're all rising up at the same time of opportunity for being opportunistic. You know, it's, it's exhilarating time and it's almost kind of hard for me to to choose where I spend most of my time on at this moment, because there's some but, but I know that like there's like maybe next week, like one of them is going to need all this attention. It's like boom, go and just dive down into a sell sheet or something on this one and give it to the team, pass off, and then boom over here, this one's, and they just kind of keep feeding each other. This, I guess, this energy of excitement, this, uh, I guess this energy of of excitement. You know, and, and what's also interesting is that I've, you know, like you can set them up to where they may be different, but they're all kind of in the same vein oh, I love that where there's some quote synergy.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, I mean I, I definitely think 100 percent totally unrelated. It just doesn't make any sense. So I like to share customers, you know, people, whatever. Yeah, like there's a better the selling this. Help me sell that.
Speaker 2:And there's a central knowledge and vision coming. Yeah, because like Siddharth, right, like he got rid of everything except a motorcycle company and a car company, right, or a truck company, right yeah.
Speaker 1:You might think lulls are too different, but they're actually kind of the same, of course they dealt with vehicles and vehicle regulations. Yeah, suppliers. Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And then that gives a lesson learned in. One may apply to lesson yes 100 I do think having some relationship with these businesses, um, it really makes a lot of sense versus. I never understood these. These like private equity groups that just buy unrelated businesses and then don't manage them in any way.
Speaker 1:They're just financial. That's hard Investors. They just look strictly at the returns. But you know Warren Buffett did that. Yeah, I mean again, it just goes to show that there's these different formulas. Yeah, you know, a lot of people don't realize he started out buying penny stocks and dogs Okay yeah. And he changed his whole approach to buy blue chip companies and not interfere in their management at all.
Speaker 1:It's a totally different approach and they are unrelated, but he doesn't interfere in their management. So, yeah, yeah, it didn't really matter. But you know he just kept saying just focus on the fundamentals.
Speaker 2:They got good management, they got a good track record, they got a good brand yeah, big the the brand was a is a big thing to him as far as what I've researched.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so there's all these different styles though right of entrepreneurship, different ways to get into business, different ways to approach starting or buying a business yeah, and I think it leads to the, you know, like that gestation period is going to be different because there's different styles, there's different people, there's different types of businesses that you're getting involved in. Yeah, and so that could look different yeah, some you may know more about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right away. Right like, if I was going to go buy an architecture engineering firm, I think I'd be able to have a shorter gestation period than if I wanted to buy a restaurant 100. I don't know anything about restaurants, but I do know architecture and engineering firms really well. Yeah, yeah, so it's going to be a shorter um gestation period.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's a good point yeah, yeah, and I think that if you, you know, if you're really that that analysis, paralysis and stuff, like you, you have to give a lot of credit to your intuition. I know this is always a very vague topic, but I mean, if you're one of the biggest differences in entrepreneurship and if you stacked entrepreneurs together, is their enthusiasm for what they're doing? Yep, are they opportunistic? Can they see the vision energy? The energy that they're going to bring to the table is really the magic bullet, I think, from an entrepreneurial perspective. And so, if your intuition is just pushing you to go do something and you feel that that has a lot of credibility to it, and even as you started doing your analysis and your second guessing and whatever during your gestation period, yeah, if you can feel that dropping off really quickly and staying dropped off, yeah, you know, for, like I would say, give it 24, give it 24, 48 hours.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, there's, like I was noticing just the other day, like I go through these, like there is no, oh, it's just this nice little curve that goes up, you know, and I'm always excited and happy. Hell, no, dude, it's like a dude. Yeah, it's a heartbeat, right, of course, that rhythm. And like there's really low lows and really high highs, and you know, but if I got down that really low, low and I was super logical about it, then I would think that that's where it ends. But no, no, what I do a lot of times I either I go get my mind off of it or whatever right, and then I go to sleep, get some clarity, get some, and then process and then back up.
Speaker 2:You know, I know that that and so, like, if you're in a gestation period and especially if you're new entrepreneur and you can't expect it to be 100% hot, you know, and then all of a sudden you go to this low about it and you don't, and you just quit the idea. Yeah, like you need to give a little. You need to give it 24, 48 hours, man, good point, you know. Yeah, or else you'll kill your idea. Or if you've been excited about it this whole time, then all of a sudden you're, you talk to somebody that that freaking buzz kills everything a lot of. That's not your answer.
Speaker 1:You can't look at that as your answer. It's just the personality issue of the person. You know, if you think about it, it's just like a relationship. You could have a good relationship and then somebody does something that's bad. You can either completely write them off and say I'll never talk with them again or, you know, you go think about it, you let a little time pass, yeah, maybe it's really not that big a deal, your perspective changes on it and you still carry on with your relationship right, such a good analogy. It really is.
Speaker 2:It's just like that it really is like that. I mean, you're gonna have problems. You know you're going to. You're going to have problems. You're going to second guess what you've always believed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, but your personality determines how you respond to that. Yeah, okay, because there are people who will just write people off and they're done, or they'll just, as you said, somebody says something bad about this business, one person, they give up on it. I mean, you know what this reminds me of. It's something I've really been thinking a lot about and this could be a topic for another show.
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Speaker 1:It's what I call relentless marketing, and it goes back to the idea. You know what a fan I am of e-marketing. I like to send out a lot of emails, right yeah, I get one person that says I'm going to delete. Don't send me so damn many emails, I'm going to write you off, I'm never going to do business with you again. Stop all emails, stop all emails. Stop. You know, or 40 people bought our shit today. Why is this guy gonna ruin my party? A lot of people, a lot of people in business, business owners, business founders let that one guy you're guy stop them. They'll stop. Oh yeah, I guess we can't market like that.
Speaker 2:Let's send one email out a month from now on. Okay, and that's a good example, because I just actually had a conversation earlier about something like this. We have one person complain, which we want to respect. You know, we want to respect that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 600% Sure we were talking about changing a process for the entire organization Based on one person's feedback. Wait a minute. Like I don't want to bottleneck the team, I don't want our team hesitant, yeah, Like we don't want to hurt the confidence of our team because one person like how and so, instead of having a you know a checkbox as we will not do X, Y and Z we're going to have a checkbox of what would you not like us to do? You tell us, because you know we're not going to stop this one part of the process to cross the entire company. Right, We'll stop the one instance of the process to cross the entire company, right, but we'll stop the one instance for you, for you yeah, exactly I like
Speaker 1:that yeah, yeah, so that makes sense. Yeah, that's like us. You can opt out right of the email and we're still sending out 50 000 emails today. But you can opt out. Yeah, you have a choice. Yes, but make that good, make it so it actually works. If they do opt out, they don't keep getting emails from you for the next 30 days. Well, that list was downloaded through our system 30 days. You know, I hate stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I've changed that? What you don't ever do is stop sending emails, yeah exactly that's just devastating. It's just. It's so stupid You've got to be really careful not to. This is my relentless marketing. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I can detail it for you, I can tell you all about it. Yeah, man, it's it. It's like that's what gives me confidence in a, in a business, compared to a lot of other people. I know I will do the hard work to do the marketing consistently in all the ways it needs to be done to make that business succeed. And I know marketing works. So there you go.
Speaker 2:Market yourself to success. Exactly, Dude, that was for sure the biggest thing that helped our old company White Spot. We were just relentless. We were always showing up.
Speaker 1:We were always just up, we were always just constant work yes, yes, to get out the front because you're a good seller too. It's marketing and selling. Yeah, two different.
Speaker 2:But related things. Well, I call it like I've identified it, as campaigning.
Speaker 3:Yeah campaigner like right paul, if you can think of as a politician.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're always, can't always campaigning.
Speaker 1:Always campaigning, shaking hands, kissing babies, baby. The election just was over, but it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:Four years. There's going to be another one, so we're going, that's right.
Speaker 1:Resilience in that campaign. Yeah, no, you're right. So this is an interesting topic. I hope that people got something out of it?
Speaker 2:I hope so too, because one of these bullets how do you know when you're really ready to launch a business? Again, I think that there's intuition and the energy behind it, and I don't know that you will ever know if you're ready or if a business is ready to be launched. It's like do you know when you should have a baby? Do you really know that? No, you just have the baby and you have to be. You know a lot of this. Again, like as a new entrepreneur.
Speaker 1:Jump in, you'll learn along the way.
Speaker 2:You've got to take the step, man I know it's so true, that's hard for a lot of people and I've seen a lot more people talk themselves out of doing business than I have seen people that, oh, it's most of the time they do. And then a lot of times I've seen the people that step into it that immediately start backpedaling and they don't give themselves that time to go through those those. Yeah, and that's bad too, because they've been taught that business is supposed to do this. If it's not the accountants, if it's not, no, I wouldn't do that business. They're like are you in a profit?
Speaker 1:that's why they're accountants, exactly okay exactly I'll never forget my, my accountant, fred, fred white and I had early in the days. It's like white, you know, and I'm sure I probably told this story before, but he sits back. He's like well, mark, fred, you stroke his beard or you know his chin and chew on his glasses or whatever. You guys should have each taken out like another two, 250,000 a year out of this business this year and like Bob, how many employees do you have Now? First I said how long have you been in business? He said 20 years. How many employees do you have Now? First I said how long have you been in business? He said 20 years. How many employees do you have? He goes counting myself and my family members yeah, five. Okay, I said, bob, you don't know shit about how to grow a business. Okay, don't tell me we're leaving money in the business so we can grow the business. Okay, it the purpose of it's not to just suck as much out of it as we can every year. That's so true.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying it's just the greatest, yeah, greatest example of that it's exactly what happened, you know, yeah, he's got his wife, he's got his daughter, he's got like his nephew and himself, and then maybe one other dude oh, you know, they're self-protecting themselves in their business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're just growing it they're just, they're trying to make x dollars a year and make a living off of it. That's, that's not fun, okay, oh, it's not, it's, it's just not. I don't know how some people do that. But yeah, there's always reasons why you won't start it. The the intuition is critical, you know, it's still true. The human brain is still better than any computer. No computer can replace the human brain, yet it may be able to someday. Computers have a lot of information that you don't have, but the ability to make a decision. That's where we can synthesize all that, and I would even.
Speaker 2:I would add to that an ability to make an emotional decision. Yeah, because what's gonna happen is the numbers won't make sense. I know it. All the threats will be compounding yes, the problems like we talked about in the beginning, are going to rise up every freaking day.
Speaker 2:It doesn't make sense to start a business when you can safely receive a paycheck for working X amount of hours and you get that and you save X percent for retirement. This formula Entrepreneurism, does not make sense logically. It's a true to's true when you try to do that. That's why, like it's really hard for an entrepreneur, you know is like a wolf and the investors like a horse. Investors are afraid about getting eaten, the wolves are looking for where the next meal is and there's this tension there. But that wolf, that entrepreneur spirit, like that is real and it's very much emotional. It's about taking that step out into the wild.
Speaker 1:Yep. The more you do it, obviously, the more confidence you build.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say the more, don't you think? Well, I think that in some ways, I think that sometimes my confidence like I was it's funny I was driving this morning thinking about confidence but I think it's more of the comfort that I have in the decision. Yeah, Like I've stepped back out, but I know everything's going to be okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're going to survive. Yeah, yeah, I get it. Yeah, one way or another. Yeah, yeah, I get it. Yeah, one way or another. Yeah right yeah, yeah, right don't want to be moving back into your 1500 square foot ranch over in west fayetteville rental neighborhood.
Speaker 3:Right, I don't want to, but if it happens, I'll be out of the world, yeah I know I always think like that too.
Speaker 1:I even go back to like trailer living in my mobile home court. You know it wasn't that bad, it really you know, I had the gal next door who was, uh, at the time she was 35 and had multiple kids and grandkids already. But you know, if I was hungry and I didn't have any money, I'd go over there and she'd give me some dinner. What's pretty nice, good setup you know, I'm just saying it really wasn't bad.
Speaker 2:No, our basic needs are they're not that hard to meet Really not man. Especially if you get outside and you walk around and go talk to people, you can usually find some pretty good help really quick.
Speaker 1:And then, on the other hand, I think all the time like how do people afford to live? We spend so much money that it blows my mind. It's just like money, money, money, money, money, money. Every day, everything, everything costs. It is crazy. I don't know how people could afford it.
Speaker 2:You know either well, I, you know it's, it's. I don't either. I mean it's like I mean biggie smalls. One greatest genius is mo' money, more problems. I mean it's just like it's not like you get to some point and everything's just taken care of, because it just becomes more and more issues to worry about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like the green roof on our gym at our house was the first Ozark green roof installed in the state. Evidently marlin blackwell designed it, yeah. But anyway it's like yeah, I gotta have the green roof people come and weed it. Then I get the annual maintenance agreement from the green roof people. Now I've got the. We're going to install an irrigation system on your roof. Proposal from the green roof people.
Speaker 2:There's a hand and she looked it's just like just hands coming in the second thousands of dollars just run out just daily daily, daily daily.
Speaker 1:It's just. And my kids, it's just like. I need money for this. I need money for that. I need a camp deposit. I want to go to the dog training thing. I gotta have tuition, I gotta have sorority.
Speaker 2:It's just like makes you just work more.
Speaker 1:Buy me a new car. It's just that the it really is I don't know how people do it. I mean, they're really um, you know, I know a lot of people are struggling, but they still manage to start businesses. Yeah, even in spite of all that.
Speaker 2:Because you know, you know, I think it honestly goes back Like I think about that a lot, like you really don't need much.
Speaker 1:No, not to start a service business. You don't.
Speaker 2:That's a fact, you really don't need much. Now. If you had certain things, yeah, it could be, but I don't know. It'd be easier, it's just faster. Yeah, you grow it faster. It's faster, it's not easier. I've learned that lesson, yeah you know I mean like it's so, it's so like you. But again it comes down. Do you have the will and the emotional and the intuition to, to take the step?
Speaker 1:I, I think you know part of it is in our culture and our we're all so comfortable. Oh, I'm not saying everybody's got everything they want, but I'm I'm just saying, you know, I look at like the first generation, um, hispanic immigrants, yeah, or here in northwest arkansas, and how many of them own businesses, and I get to know these people and I find out what their backgrounds were. Some of them were pretty tough, okay, and they come over here, like one guy grew up out in a rural area, had nothing. They had no running water, no electricity, dirt floor in their house. Yeah, it's a concrete company now. Yeah, and you know he's got. He owns his own house, he's got an RV, he's got multiple cars. His kids have cars Freaking awesome man, you know, I mean it's just. You know another, my landscaper came from rural El Salvador. He's got a big house with a pool, all right. He's got a big warehouse he just built. He's probably got 30 guys working for him, just their perspective.
Speaker 1:They really started out with nothing I guess, what I'm saying is to them you couldn't get any more if they fail. They wouldn't be any worse off. They'd probably still be better off. They could go get a job working for somebody else in this country that's right and do better than they did in mexico or rural mexico, or rural el salvador. So I guess, you know, maybe it seems less risky for them somehow, but they still managed to pull it off with no money and it just they just worked, they just do it.
Speaker 2:What if they didn't make the decision to start his own concrete business? You know, he just like I mean, but like you've got to take that step, man, that's it.
Speaker 2:And and I don't know, like, I mean I think about it all the time. I got all these different things going on. I mean, like, which ones? You know? Is one gonna fail? Is one, you know? I mean what? What's gonna happen? Four of them, I don't know. Yeah, you know, but you can't, like I just you just gotta keep stepping, just keep step, because you don't really know, you can't predict the outcome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're not going to climb the mountain. If you climbed the mountain before, right, you know what I mean. What's the point of that, right? Yeah, so no, you don't know for sure you're going to be able to. Yeah, but you're still going to try. You've got to step out. So, people, once again, you got to step out, you got to do it. Entrepreneurship is more doing than it is planning.
Speaker 2:that's beautiful that's so true it's.
Speaker 1:You can be a planner and fantasizer and entrepreneur, or you can be a doer and a jumper in her and a entrepreneur. It's really true. The choice is yours. It's really true. So you're not going to win the lottery unless you buy lottery tickets. Yeah man. You're not going to be a successful business owner unless you become a business owner. To start Right, all right, anything else.
Speaker 2:No, that's a great. I don't want to mess that up. Man, you dropped the mic on the loan.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, my mic is still here, so I guess we can wrap this up. Let's do it. And once again, um check your voice is getting deep and sexy check. Check us out at wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscom. Yes, sir.
Speaker 2:And this has been another episode of Big Talk.
Speaker 1:About Small Businesses.
Speaker 3:Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk About Small Business. If you have any questions or ideas for upcoming shows, be sure to head over to our website, wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscom and click on the Ask the Host button for the chance to have your questions answered on the show. Stay connected with us on LinkedIn at Big Talk about Small Business and be sure to head over to our website to read articles, browse episodes and ask questions about upcoming shows.