Big Talk About Small Business
Hosted by Mark Zweig and Eric Howerton. Our Mission is to inspire, empower, and equip entrepreneurs with the knowledge and insights they need to succeed in their ventures. Through engaging conversations with industry experts, seasoned entrepreneurs, and thought leaders, we aim to provide valuable strategies, actionable advice, and real-world experiences that will enable our listeners to navigate the challenges, seize the opportunities, and build thriving businesses.
Big Talk About Small Business
Ep. 88 - Slacking Leaders Get Slapped by Reality
The foundation of a successful business isn't just talented individuals—it's engaged people working in synchronized harmony toward shared goals. In this raw, unfiltered episode, we dive deep into the reality that disengaged business owners inevitably face harsh consequences. As we candidly explore, "If you're an entrepreneur thinking you can be disengaged in your business, you're 1,000% wrong. You will get slapped across the face."
What separates truly excellent companies from mediocre ones? We explore how an obsession with details creates excellence that differentiates businesses from the competition. From perfectly aligned cabinet doors to spotless windows and immaculate furnace filters, this attention to every element combines into a whole culture that customers recognize and value. The question becomes: how do you instill this same passion for excellence throughout your team?
This episode tackles the fundamental 50/50 split in engagement responsibility—half belongs to leadership creating the right environment, and half belongs to individual employees bringing their own desire to engage. We examine practical strategies including committing to growth (rather than lifestyle business models), involving teams in planning, embracing technological change with speed, and conducting collaborative workshops that solve real problems together.
Perhaps most provocatively, we challenge the traditional framing of employee engagement by suggesting the better question might be: "How do employees engage with a company?" The discussion reveals that when individuals approach their work with the right mindset and intentions, they're "rewarded tremendously with experience, money, growth and career."
Whether you're struggling with tech-resistant team members, finding the right hiring approach, or rekindling your own entrepreneurial fire, this episode delivers honest insights from those who've been in the trenches. Subscribe now and join our community of entrepreneurs committed to building businesses where everyone is aligned, engaged, and driving toward excellence.
So what we're saying here is if you're listening to this and you're an entrepreneur or you're thinking about going into entrepreneurship and you think for one split second that you can have these be in this business that you're starting, you're 1,000% wrong. You will get slapped across the face, yeah unless you just get lucky so for everybody who did not know.
Speaker 3:This is another episode of that big talk about that small business. And uh, today we're going to talk about employee engagement that's a big topic.
Speaker 1:Hey, just a reminder to all the listeners, like, why are we here? We're here to help the entrepreneur or the aspiring entrepreneur, you know, to know about some of the raw things, the real things that go on in business and what it really takes you know it's not fluff, right? I mean, we're really trying to just help people that are in the weeds of it and about to get into the weeds of it, like give you a little taste about what's about to come. So maybe some tips that'll help you, some little tips, yeah, some raw experience, yeah, from myself and yourself that have been through a little bit of the ringer, yeah, and then our guests that come on and still are in the ringer.
Speaker 3:And still in the freaking dude in the weeds 67 and a half and I'm still in the ringer.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And just right before the show you go, you said I look depressed today.
Speaker 3:Well, you're never totally depressed. That was unfair. Okay, maybe not at your highest energy level. Well, you know what it was.
Speaker 1:I got like it sucked it out of me. It was just the amount of emails and text messages that I was having to trill through this morning. Oh yes, insane. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 3:Insane. Listen. Every day it starts out with problems, as you've said before. I mean, this morning I discovered, you know, significant errors in the cash flow forecast for one business. Okay, significant errors in the cash flow forecast for one business, okay, um, fortunately it it actually. Um, we have more cash than I thought we. Well, that's good. In the short term, that's a good problem, yeah, but, but that was one. And then just like a total lack of understanding about why we're doing what we're doing and and why it's so essential, yeah, in the people that have to be responsible for it. And then the next thing is I find out none of my classes have been scheduled for next semester, and I talk to my department chair about that, and we're going through some kind of conversion of our systems at U of A.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:From UAConnect to Workday Student and he's just like he was so angry at the screw-ups and bureaucracy and paperwork and just very frustrated. Yeah, you know so yeah.
Speaker 1:So how do you, as mark as well I mean, because you're one of the best I know just hammering things out, right, like, how do you come up with that? Like you wake up, you know there's problems, you just like to take care of problems. Like, yeah, I just deal with it.
Speaker 3:I just deal with it. I'm serious.
Speaker 1:Do you have a higher vision as to why you are dealing with it or you're just freaking?
Speaker 3:higher vision, yeah I don't know, or you just, I mean, it's what I am, it's what I do, I'm a fixer, okay, that's it, that's. I mean, I don't know if there's any great vision there or not. You just like to fix things, yes yes, I do, I enjoy fixing.
Speaker 1:No, you do, and I mean like even going back to like when you used to your homes. I mean like you would pick out some pretty, you know, uh, pretty nasty, nasty, nasty places but turn them into beautiful things and that was something I mean you just enjoyed the hell out of that. I just put a post.
Speaker 3:You know I'm doing one down the street. I just put a post post on LinkedIn about that this morning.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And basically, you know, what I was saying is that it takes attention to every single detail. Okay, that's what we do, all right, yeah, every closet is perfectly painted and refinished. Every garage floor, every light bulb, every, every thing is clean. Every door closes like it's supposed to close and latches and the cabinet doors are lined up okay, and they'll be. The beds are weeded and the trees are trimmed and the power washing has been done, yeah, and the the gutters are clean and the windows sparkle, and so, you know, at night, we leave every single light on in the house, every light, and we have the AC turned below 70 in the summer and the heat turned above 70 in the winter, and the fireplace flues operate and the chimneys have been cleaned.
Speaker 3:Okay, and if there needs to be a piece of furniture in an odd shaped room to show people how it should be laid out, that furniture is in the place that it needs to go, and that's how we sell houses. Okay, when the inspector comes in, they don't find a dirty furnace filter and a whatever All right, it's, it's ready to go, it's done, it's perfect. It a whatever All right, it's, it's ready to go, it's done, it's perfect, it's excellent. All right, excellent. It's all about excellence. It's all about attention to detail. That's how you build. You know that business. That's how we got to be developers of the year. That's how we got best historic renovation award. That's how we got on the inc 5000 list of fastest growing companies during a real estate recession.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like it takes an obsession with details and they all combine into a whole, okay, and that whole is excellent and that whole is differentiated over the competition. Where you go in every other house, it's got 10 million things wrong with it. It's like, yeah, but that, forget all the butts. We don't want to hear your freaking butts. We want to be able to visualize moving in this thing and it's perfect and life is beautiful. Okay, you like that?
Speaker 1:right, I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, painting that canvas of perfection and beauty and yeah, from the mailbox to the address numbers on the mailbox. I spent 39 for those to get the right ones that are raised and yeah, you know it's just, it's so many things are you calculating your time and doing an roi analysis?
Speaker 1:oh, I them. Mailbox numbers and all that?
Speaker 3:No, not my time, I just. My whole thing is how much money do I have in it and how much do I sell it for? Yeah, and the time value of money is charged against the job. Whether it's put in with cash or it's borrowed, the time value of the money is a factor. Yeah, I know every single penny. I mean I can show you right here. You want to see it. Yeah, I'll show you. Take a look at that Every day, every amount, down to the penny, of every single dime.
Speaker 1:And this is what always amazes me that this is just in your phone notes. So, like what you're doing, you're in grief man, and you just write this down as you, as you go about, right, and that's how I know I've got every day.
Speaker 3:You're not putting this in quickbooks or anything.
Speaker 1:No, I don't put it in quickbooks, I used to, but I don't do you send this to somebody so they can put it in the books. No, you just know.
Speaker 3:You're just counting for the total I need it for my taxes though, yeah, okay, when it comes down to it at the end. You know, when you go to sell this, I mean you got a taxable gain on it, but you want to show as much cost as you can. But you see that, yeah, okay, that's pretty detailed, it's really detailed, every single part, okay. But anyway, it's the obsession Excellence. Why do something if you're going to do a shitty job? That's true, okay, why, yeah, I? So how do we get our employees to understand that's right, that's, that's, that's that's a.
Speaker 1:That is because if everybody in the company could have obsession with something you know, you can tie that to what they're doing and then then the company rises up as a true excellent company. Yes, you know, but it absolutely drives me crazy that when I can't find what is it that you're passionate about, yeah, well that.
Speaker 3:I'm glad you brought that up, because here's the first bit about employee engagement get the right employees. Yeah, they're not all going to be engaged right, okay, they're just not. I mean, there's a variety of reasons that their whole life experience, you know, plays such a big part of it, their personality stuff they're born with. We don't know, yeah, where it all comes what they've been taught what they believe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, taught what they believe. Yeah, you know, I think there's a lot of like. I've noticed like there's this vacuum that seems to be getting more powerful, to be honest with you, of where folks are just not. It's almost like they don't recognize why they're even alive.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I hear what you're saying, you know. But you know what, though?
Speaker 3:If you think about that and I'm never one one I don't like to generalize about generations or no, no, no, no, it doesn't matter, right, but if you think back on, like our parents now, my dad was a and mom they were depression survivors in world war ii, right, you know very difficult hand-to-hand combat. My dad, first lieutenant, survived, got his, you know his, his bra is his bronze star and his his silver star and all that. And so they went through a lot, right, and they didn't have it real easy, right? So maybe by the time we came along, we, we saw that they had the, the sort of metal, they had the character to overcome obstacles. Yeah, yeah, your dad grew up in Carbondale, illinois. Yeah, now, I don't know, I never, we never talked about what his parents did, but Carbondale is a, is a pretty poor area. Okay, my guess is they probably weren't really well off.
Speaker 1:No, my my dad's dad was a postmaster there you go, in Carbondale right, sure, but he was a teacher before, but he's the first one to graduate college. He served in World War II as well. My mom's dad served in the Navy in World War II, was a POW, wow. And then he was also-. Was he in Germany or Japan?
Speaker 3:No Japan, oh that wow. And then he was what's in germany, or no, uh japan, oh, that's terrible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no w in japan was beyond horrible, yeah and, and, and, and he was a mechanic. And then um, and then he broke his back doing he was like the, the uh, the shift leader or whatever, or the shop leader head mechanic. And then um, he was also his. His parents were coal miners. Yeah, so he grew up like yeah.
Speaker 3:So the point is, I mean, you think about what some of those people had to survive and what they had to do to transcend that's right. Those circumstances, yeah, they were tough, they were determined surviving, they had a motivation level. Today people have too much, they mean it's too comfortable, it is. It's just like I can't believe. You know, I saw a deal recently, um, that was all on and it's always. I've known this anyway, but it was like starter homes. You know what's the average home today? Well, in 1950 it was 900 square feet, had two bedrooms, one bath, and, yeah, what's the average new home today? It's like 2,600 square feet. Yeah, two-car garage, three or four bedrooms, three baths. So much stuff. Okay, I mean, you can't even yeah, it costs more, you can't even compare it.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay, why is the expectation? I have students that graduate, yeah, and go out and buy, buy something like they go out and they buy something like that. I mean it, it. It's kind of mind-boggling that that's where they think that they should start out and they're willing to take on that kind of debt okay, and that they're still not that motivated.
Speaker 1:A lot of them, you know, and it gets pretty depressing when you have everything and then you're still working and it doesn't seem fair. It doesn't seem like what are you working towards? Yeah, you've already got everything. You've already got everything Right, so now you just want to chill and then, like, your next level is to not work, and so the whole mentality becomes on, that's death. Yeah, it is, and you don't realize it until you're there. And then where's your ambition? Where's your passion? You know, I guess passion has a lot. It's kind of really a new word if you really look at it, because, like we were talking about our grandparents, they never talked about passion.
Speaker 3:Who gives?
Speaker 1:a crap about your passion. You know it's like did you earn or did you not earn? Can you put food on the table or did you not? True, that's it. And living that and being that simple. You know we were actually talking about before, but you said it's about survival. It's about, and in order to survive, it's about being excellent. Yes, right, you have to be excellent to survive.
Speaker 3:And then you have people like us who we could survive comfortably right, if we just did everything that we're quote supposed to, yeah, but instead we keep putting ourselves in situations where it's like, why did I do that? Oh my God, I got so much to lose here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like we keep putting ourselves into a survival situation, but we have competence that we will overcome because we will do the work that it takes to get to where we've got to go. It's like next week I got to give a seminar at one of the Walton College deal over here in Bentonville. You know that satellite deal we've got and it's some kind of a seminar, but on innovation and marketing and all. And you know what I want to say. I mean, truthfully, I don't need that much innovation. I will do the work of marketing. That will ensure I will be successful Marketing requires a crazy amount of work.
Speaker 1:It just, it's just Relentlessness.
Speaker 3:It's relentless discipline. Yeah, you've got to have the discipline. And then you do all the things that you know you need to do and guess what it probably is going to work out? I can go out there and look for a magic bullet on something new. Yeah, okay, maybe that'll work. But boy, the odds sure go down.
Speaker 1:That's all I know, and so, like, the question is is, how do you engage others in your team to do that? Because I'll be honest with you, like from my perspective as an entrepreneur, and and, and, and, and and drives me nuts because I think that a lot of the team in my experience not, you know, just teams in general- not any specific yeah, yeah, yeah, not, you know, just teams in general not any specific.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, I really genuinely have a desire for them to engage, because it's not about me. You want to see them be successful, absolutely. I want to see them be part of something that's bigger than I. Get that and then they look around, they like I did that and I did it with so and so and such and such, and we did that together. Like when I look back on on my life as in career, the best times of my life were working with a group of people of court and accomplishing accomplishing something together, and it's usually in those times, like you were talking about, when things were really hard. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:no, I mean that's.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's such a satisfying feeling, it's actually, when I look back, it's like the most enjoyable times in my career. I know Most rewarding times in my career. There wasn't a lot of money flying around, there wasn't a lot of fancy stuff, you know, it was like just down dirty working, being excellent, overcoming ourselves, overcoming the barriers, beating competitors, doing what everybody said that we couldn't do the underdog life, man Right.
Speaker 3:That's where the satisfaction comes in.
Speaker 3:100% I know, and you want people to experience that because you understand that's rewarding psychically, rewarding 100%, okay, but it also can be rewarding for them financially. Dude, that's the way it paid off. That's my experience. Yeah, anybody that made it through that are doing pretty well, exactly, and moving up Right. You know, it's like we're not going to be able to do any better for you as an individual if the organization is stuck where it is. Yeah, it's not all just a matter of the owner's greed or not greed. Yeah, like, how much do I give back or how much do I not? It's the organization and what it creates is what determines what you can do.
Speaker 1:You know, I think, as we talk about this engaging employees, I think there's a 50-50 here. Okay, so I do believe that there is a responsibility for myself or for leaders in the company and it's not just me, it's any leader. Leadership, or if you want to be a leader in a company, you need to have engagement. That needs to be on top of your mind. How do we engage the team in this? And we can talk about that, but I'd say there's a 50% that we don't even need to really talk about. That is left up to the responsibility of the individual to engage them, freaking selves into what they're doing Boy.
Speaker 3:Amen to that. I mean, you can't do it for everybody, no.
Speaker 1:You can try, but there's only so far you can go, and so as Go ahead.
Speaker 3:No, you're right, but there is a precedent to that, though, I think. Well, it's not necessarily a precedent, but what makes it work is the owner's got to be engaged. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's not just the. If the owner's not engaged, how do you expect the employees to be engaged?
Speaker 1:Mark, I'm going to sit here and say I have been slapped in the face multiple times in business and every time it's about me losing engagement Me too. I would admit that I get tired, right, or I get lazy.
Speaker 3:Or I get distracted.
Speaker 1:Or I get pulled into this and I get disengaged with my own company, or I think that I maybe or have arrived somewhere right. I shouldn't and I don't have to do that yeah I get it, you know, every time wrong.
Speaker 1:You know, just absolutely slapped across, the karma slaps you and big time, big time, yeah, yeah, and then, and then, even if I'm not engaged, it's like a like I'm, you know, it's like it doesn't mean much to me either. Yeah, you know, sure, but when I get engaged, it's when I get back into the grind and it's just ugly. But you're right, if you're not engaged, your team's not going to be engaged in the business. Like it drifts off to waters you can't even understand. Like, how in the hell did it get over there? Yeah, and then trying to pull it back in is so much hard work.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's really hard.
Speaker 1:It's like you slip down the hill and now you've got to pull it all the way back up just to get to where you need to be. So what we're saying here is if you're listening to this and you're an entrepreneur or you're thinking about going into entrepreneurship and you think for one split second that you can have these be in this, business that you're starting.
Speaker 3:You're, you're a thousand percent wrong. You will get slapped across the face. Yeah, unless you just get lucky. I mean it's possible you could get lucky, and just this superstar ends up in your lap and they just do everything. I have seen a few situations like that, but again, the odds are against that. I mean you can get lucky. You can walk down the street and find a thousand dollars laying there too. You know what I mean? I haven't been lucky like this. Yeah, it's, the odds are not. It's not gonna happen. Yeah, I mean yeah. So I agree with you 100.
Speaker 3:So it starts with you being engaged. You got to find the right people. Not everybody is going to be able to do it. They don't all have the background or whatever, due to their parenting or due to just genetics, we don't know, we don't care. It's just they're not all going to do it. That's right. The problem is so how do you get enough of them who will do it? I mean, I do think it starts with when people evidence themselves as not being engaged in spite of your best efforts over an extended period of time. Yeah, but not too extended. Right, you need to move them off the team. Well, that's what?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. Pollute other people and you need to feel the ability. Like you can only like we're talking about 50 percent Like you can only do so much. You can only engage others so much. The other part's left up to them and you shouldn't feel bad about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly they don't do it. It's not your fault at some level, Right?
Speaker 1:100% yeah. So how do we engage the ones that say, let's say, I am engaged, I've chosen a decent team, right, yeah, and you know you're getting non-engagers off the team. Oh, non-engagers are off the team. How do we engage the engagers, like, how do we get them to be more engaged in the company?
Speaker 3:I think number one in my opinion and I doubt you would disagree with this is you, as the owner manager, have to commit to being a growth business. Don't rationalize the fact that we're going to stay small but be successful, right, okay, that's automatically puts a cap on everything. That's so true automate. And there's so many small business owners that think like that well, if I can do a million dollars a year, I make 150 and I'll be happy with that. Okay, as soon as that becomes clear to your employees, death, yeah again. Yeah, okay, yeah, good luck having engaged employees, right, that's your mentality, right? So you got to commit to a growth company.
Speaker 1:And even if you have a company like that and they might be engaged, the good ones are going to bounce out because you put a cap on them on their growth level, like the really shining stars are not going to stick with your company. Why would you?
Speaker 3:work in a place like that, I wouldn't even consider it. No, the moment I discovered that in one company I was in, I got opted out. Yeah, I had a great job, I was making over $100,000 a year. I wasn't even 30 years old yet. Company car, company, country club membership yeah, man. Yet company car, company, country club membership yeah, man, okay, I mean I, it's just freaking. 1986 seven.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I could have stayed in that, yeah, and just be disengaged for the rest of your life. Just, it's a, you know, but it's not growing.
Speaker 3:The place isn't growing. There's only so good. I'm only gonna go so far yeah yeah, that's in that environment that's the first.
Speaker 1:What's another way, I think? Engaging?
Speaker 3:well, I think another way again. I mean, some of this stuff we've talked about before, but I mean sharing in the business planning and not making the business plan a secret. I mean I think those two kind of go hand in hand. Like we got to get people participating, yeah, and what we're, you know, how are we going to accomplish this vision? Okay, they don't set the vision, by the way. True, you set the vision Right. Okay, you set the mission. Why are you in business? What are you trying to become? That's your responsibility as the owner. Yeah, but how to get there and the details and some of the tasks and all we've got to get their involvement in that of the, the tasks and all we've got to get their involvement in that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, you know what's what's interesting about that and at least it's been my experience, like I've done pretty well on establishing like a purpose, mission, vision and stuff you have you strike out a big vision.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, it's, there's their read. My problem is is I don't revisit it and recast it on a regular basis, yeah, or as frequent as I need to. I don't know that you can, I don't know that you can beat that down too much. Like it should be. Like I've seen you gotta sell it really well, yeah, but it's just and everywhere and every nook and cranny. That's. That's awesome. That's like what I think is true. Really great branding, yeah, folks, but.
Speaker 1:But it's always interesting to me, like if you be cast everybody's on the same page, you walk out the door. That might last for about 48 hours and then people get confused again. It's because you know, and sometimes I get confused with a vision. But there's an ability, I think, as an entrepreneur where you're, you know it's 90% of what you're thinking is anyway, it's like a natural thing. You saw it to begin with when nothing was there, and then, when distractions come in, you can realign a lot easier, I think, than maybe some of the team can. Yeah, but it's your job Because you see the big picture, because you see the big picture and you just hide the distractions. But it's your job to come back. But you've got to understand. The rest of the team can get distracted or confused. Or they talk or people talk to them. Clients might say something.
Speaker 3:They don't have the same perspective.
Speaker 1:They don't have the same experience that you have.
Speaker 1:That's right, and it just reminds me of this conversation. I need to do this again, like recasting that vision, getting people back in line, get them point, everybody pointing what you want as a company, as a leaders, and talk about engagement. The ultimate objective of engagement is we're all pointing in the same direction. Yeah, absolutely. Compass the wind behind you, the sails are upright, everybody's in their right spot, right seat in the bus to get that ship right. Yep, Pointing in the right direction. That's true of what engagement is we're all a team rolling in the same freaking direction.
Speaker 1:Yes, then we get this efficiency and we get this performance that you're not going to get if they're not all thinking that way, tomorrow for one of the companies, we're actually doing like an off-site working session together and diagramming our processes together, you know, and I think that that's an effort of engagement, you know.
Speaker 3:Oh, diagramming processes, you know. I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah, because that's a perfect example of where I think a lot of problems are. When the lack of engagement is there, then that people tend to follow the established process, whatever that happens to be, and not improve it or not question it and go. Why are we doing a, b and C? We could just go from a to C and get rid of B altogether, because it doesn't do anything for us. Yeah, but that takes engagement. It does.
Speaker 1:And we've got to know that those things kind of creep up B might creep up at some point, or B was relevant yesterday, but it's not anymore this day and so revisiting that is like a very, very critical thing to do in order for people to be engaged. Yeah, yeah, I think you're absolutely right. You have to engage in the process, for the process, to engage the team. Yes, it's like this never ending cycle. Yes, that we have to do and so we're about to get a little bit more serious about that, you know and getting the team together to think about what we have we've been doing. Where are we at? How can we improve all these things?
Speaker 3:Well, that's a normal evolution. I mean, I don't know what company you're talking about, of yours, or where it is in its life cycle, but once it gets rolling along and it's been there for a little bit, you better go back and take a hard look at all this Because, like you said, it evolved. Times have changed. The scenario is different now. There's new information that we didn't have before. There's new capabilities in the firm that we didn't have before. There's new capabilities in the firm that we didn't have before, yep, so those things do need to be questioned. So, just looking at this here disengaged employees cost US businesses $438 billion a year. I don't know where that number ever came up. Yeah, I don't either year. I don't know where that number ever came up yeah, I don't either okay, I mean, I can't.
Speaker 3:I gotta believe it's more than that. Anyway, I mean, heck, the, the, the. The deficit is freaking close to 40 trillion, so 438 billion doesn't seem like that big of a number. No engagement directly affects the bottom line. That's according to Gallup. Ai is helping small businesses onboard faster and improve morale. Okay, well, is onboarding? Is that critical to engagement? Yeah, I guess it is.
Speaker 1:I know 100%. Well, I mean, I think that on that topic, right like AI is about getting rid of a lot of the monotonous work. That allows people to think better and actually do their work a little bit more efficiently and that will help improve morale. But you have to work to get the AI to work for you.
Speaker 3:Well, and they've got to have something else to do or be directed toward instead of just AI does my job and now I don't do anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it should take off a lot of the clutter work so that you can think freely. It's kind of like going back to the whole process thing we were talking about. If I can automate a work or a process or a point in my process, then that allows me to think about other things that might be broken or can be made more efficient. That's actually fun and that can lift morale.
Speaker 3:That makes sense to me can't lift morale. That makes sense to me. Um, 73 of employees feel anxious about rapid tech changes. Training and inclusion are key. Um, yeah, I count me in on that. I hate the technology change, but I, you know, sometimes it's dumb, but more often than not today, it seems like it makes sense. Well, it's like. You know, I was resisting conversion of our learning management platform at u of a from the old blackboard to the new and like, oh god, I don't want to learn. Figure, that's old one out over 19 years. You use that. I'm finally, yeah, completely versed in it. I want to do, and now they're going to change it. Boy, the new one's a hell of a lot better. That's all I can say it.
Speaker 1:Everything's better man, that resistance to adapt, adaptation of technology is, I think is basic human nature. But in today's time, man, we gotta I mean you talk about going back to our original discussion of survivalship yeah, it's essential, it's a little survive 100 essential today?
Speaker 3:yeah you, it's like, do you want to be the ones with the bow and arrows when you're right? When you're, uh, you know he's got freaking guns, yeah, they've got, you know, uh, fully automatic weapons, or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah I know, it's just like that same analogy, though. Yeah, we have to. As an entrepreneur, you have to embrace technology. I've always used bow and arrow, though, eric well, I know you love that, I thought you, but I've always used bow and arrow that way, Rick. Well, I know you love that, but I've always used it. You'll be shot a lot faster than you can even load your arrow. I'm just going to go ahead and tell you that's what's going to happen, right?
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Speaker 1:From creation to distribution, we but I mean, I think that's a big topic of conversation today. You talk about like and how like. We actually have been through this with podcast videos the reality of AI, the reality of automated processes, the reality of technology continuing to advance. I mean like, if we don't adapt to that, we will not even have a company to engage with. It's just what has to happen.
Speaker 3:I get it. We're going through the same thing at Janus Motorcycles with this MRP system. You have to. If we cannot get that implemented, we can't go back to the old paper system and one person knows where everything is and this guy drives around with bins and takes them to a place to fill them up with parts or whatever. Not going to work anymore. That only takes you to a certain level. Yeah then if you want to go beyond that, you've got to have these systems. It takes a wholesale change of everything. Not everybody gets on board with that.
Speaker 1:No, no, they're very resistant and I mean, okay, but there is no other option. I I we know that?
Speaker 3:yeah, do they know that? No, they don't really know that. How do we get them to?
Speaker 1:understand? No, they don't really know that. How do we?
Speaker 3:get them to understand that you know.
Speaker 1:I think that part of that is you know what we're trying to exercise, at least, like I get it right, like if I can understand there's a threat to maybe what I have been doing in my role, that technology can either automate or the burden of learning a new tool. I mean, all those things are really challenging. I think the thing about it is first, you have to establish a culture of embracing and evolving with those changes. You have to have speed as one of your top pillars. Oh.
Speaker 1:God, thank you. Speed, speed, speed, speed, speed. That that ability to relentlessly change and adapt, and that is who we are and what we do, period. And so in our I agree on podcast videos I'm like guys, look, this is a fast-moving industry, right? If you can't like this isn't the right place for you, yeah, exactly, this isn't. I mean like you are not going to be happy.
Speaker 3:So it kind of goes back to choosing the right people I've always wanted to have speed awards for people in the company who demonstrate that they do things quickly, yeah, okay, yeah, whether that's responding to a customer or changing something that's broken, or whatever speed, speed speed is all about in, in every, in every nook and cranny of every business going on today.
Speaker 1:Like that is because of what technology is doing to the like. You have to have that as one of your top pillars.
Speaker 3:You do, you're right, but you know that. Again, though, is a great. I'm glad you brought that up, because that's one of the great things about being a small business. Oh yeah, we can be faster and more fleet and more responsive than big companies. They've got all that investment and that sunk cost and that old way of doing things. If you think it's hard to change this in a 20 person company, try doing it in a 20 000, 100, okay that is your cutting edge advantage of a small business.
Speaker 1:That's it right there. Yeah it, because you don't need to dart around. Yeah, it is, and I'll be honest with you. What we're experiencing with tech is allowing smaller companies to be even faster than what they've ever been able to be before, and to your point they can beat. I mean, you can enter into the market as a small, two-person, five-person company, leveraging all the technology and kick the butts out of me. Yeah, it's pretty awesome it really is.
Speaker 3:I mean, that's so exciting, yeah, but we've got to get everybody to see that. We've got to get everybody to understand that. We've got to get everybody to understand that they will benefit personally.
Speaker 1:So, to that point, this one of our exercises, our workshop, right A working session, to where you get on your computer we have somebody that's consulting or talking and doing the workshop for us. That's going to have us get our hands on the keyboard and create a process and the whole team will experience that as a group. It's like a hackathon. It's like a hackathon. It is like a hackathon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, here's the problem, go solve it. Yeah, we go solve it. We solve it together. It gets you familiar, it takes you out of being isolated and overwhelmed by it. And then this negative feedback that happens underground Well, I didn't do that. I don't have enough time, I'm not getting paid enough. I don't have enough time, I'm not getting paid enough, I don't have enough time. Oh my God.
Speaker 1:You know all these negative things that breed in the culture. But if we bring everybody together and say, guys, look, we as a team are doing this, I love it. This is brand new for everyone, right? So let's get in here and get this figured out, and then it exposes them, and then they have the confidence, then they can see like, oh, this will help me out, this is actually going to save me a lot of time.
Speaker 3:We started watching a really good documentary I haven't finished it yet on Twitter and how they started it. I don't know if you've seen it no, I haven't seen it but I mean they were working on other problems completely when their whole business model just evaporated overnight. Yeah, and then they're like, okay, now what are we going to do? And they just came up with ideas. Everybody come up with ideas. Okay, let's come up with a new application, let's come up with a new, you know, program. Yeah, and they did it. Yeah, okay, it's very exciting.
Speaker 1:Oh, I think there's a whole different level of thinking that's happening in Silicon Valley and I think that is what probably the apex of it all is is that a lot of these companies start without knowing what the product is.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They just have a general idea, or using tech stack or whatever it might be, or they got really talented people yeah.
Speaker 1:There's a market problem to go solve. We don't know exactly what our end product is, but having that freedom to just get together and figure it out together as a team is what's driving a lot of these highly innovative, big freaking exiting companies, because it's not only Twitter, but a lot of these companies are in the same thing, like Airbnb, uber all of them, like you know, like didn't really have Uber when they first started out with this perfect thesis plan and forecast model eBay didn't either.
Speaker 3:I mean, they're selling. You know, the guy came up with it to sell his girlfriend's Pez dispensers or whatever. That was the foundation of it, yeah, and then it just drives everything. Yeah, yeah, that's exciting. So, yeah, this is really interesting. Um, a few other things here. Uh, top-ranked small businesses offer flexibility, ownership and mental health support.
Speaker 3:According to the Times, uk best small companies yeah, within a, within a some constraints. I mean, I, you know the flexibility is great, but the problem, I think, with a lot of people with their idea of flexibility is that my work is 40 hours and then I want you to be flexible within the 40 hours. How much I do? I got a problem with that If your work is unlimited, your work time, and you want to be flexible and you get done a lot of stuff because you're working all the time or you're taking off for two hours but then you're coming back to it, yeah, eight o'clock at night or whatever. Yeah, that's a different thing. Totally be flexible within my 40 hours so I really don't have to work 40 hours, right, right, I think that's what a lot of people's idea is, unfortunately well, it kind of goes back to about what?
Speaker 1:what is that person, what is their perspective about what their work really is like? Why are they working? I mean, like, what have they been taught? What are their beliefs? Like all those types of things that impact that flexibility. It can be abused really quickly, boy. It can.
Speaker 3:And the railing against the man. Yeah, the man is here to exploit me, as opposed to. I can work this system to my own benefit, right? It's just, you know, when they have the attitude that they're being exploited and they think like a factory worker from 1900, okay, you know, I guess that's part of the programming we were talking about earlier where you may not be able to overcome that, no matter how much information and visioning and team building and everything that you do, you may not be able to overcome, which is unfortunate because it really impacts ends up impacting that team member more than it impacts anybody else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because the ship will keep sailing, you know, if under the right leadership and right and drive right. Yeah, uh, you know, and that's um, I have seen that happen over and over again with individuals that that have the incorrect programming as to the intent of a company and its growth, but they're bringing in baggage from from previous things or from things that they've been taught and they've understood and it's well, that's, that's what business is all about. That's huge Business like in. You know, I think that's fine in your perspective, a lot of small business owners' perspectives. They're starting it because they see something, yeah, and they're trying to solve it and they just want the best for everyone and everything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're not just starting it to make a lot of money, right. That's the thing people don't understand. It's the same thing. I again sorry for the distraction. Yeah, but it's just like you know. People complain about the city of fayetteville and how difficult it is to be a real estate developer. Their development projects, they're harder to do than they are here in benton county. So you guys are getting more business. You could. You know that's. Yeah, yeah, right, so but here the problem in the city of Fayetteville with the staff, the planning department, the engineering, building safety, whatever the attitude is that if you are a real developer, that you are only a developer because you're greedy and want to make a lot of money. It's usually way down on the list.
Speaker 1:It is they just one bad. Half a spool is a whole bunch, right, you want to?
Speaker 3:improve the city. You, it is they just one bad, okay, spools a whole bunch, right. You, you want to improve the city. You want to provide housing for people who need it. You want to have a better place to shop, or I mean there's. You have this vision for what the city could be and how these things could be used and how it. The money is not the primary driver, but the implicit assumption is that you're evil and greedy, and I think a lot of workers think like that about their owners.
Speaker 1:I agree 100%. You know, I would end this with this statement. I really think that this podcast topic should be, instead of how does a company engage employees? It's really, how do employees engage with a company? Employees it's really how do employees engage with the company. Because if you ask my opinion as being a small business owner for a number of years, that's more of the problem In all honesty. I mean I'll just be.
Speaker 3:Well, they got to select the industry they've got a passion for. You already said that Exactly, but so many times people come to a company with wrong intentions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like can we reverse this societal perspective here in a way? I mean, I know it's, it's touchy, but I mean, like my experience has shown a lot of times, when people, when things don't work out, it's the individual person coming to a small business that is not really wanting to engage with the business, they are doing it for whatever other reason and it makes this friction type of scenario. When the reality is is when I've seen on the opposite side, with people that have engaged with the business have been rewarded tremendously.
Speaker 3:Yeah, with experience, money, growth and career, and so well, maybe they want a lifestyle job. Really, I want to be a musician, yeah, but I need this job so I can pay my rent and yeah, and eat or whatever, yeah, okay, okay, that's bad, okay, we're not. Well, I mean, we're not looking for people like that in our company, right, right, we're looking for people who want to get more out of it than that. It's not just a means of of existence yes, and I think that that's a big.
Speaker 1:That's kind of goes at one point like where is now, are there positions and roles of where that can be it right, it's just yeah, maybe you work in the mail room and it's only open eight hours a day or whatever. Everybody's fine. You're not trying to go. I'm not trying to make you go places. Yeah, exactly, we're all good Handshake and done.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but you're going to make 15 bucks an hour. Don't expect to get more than that. Yeah, okay, like, have the right expectations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Right, it's about like being married. What are our expectations here?
Speaker 3:Well, it always comes back to getting the right people. Yeah, and, like you said, they've got to have, they've got to be making good decisions on what kind of organizations they're joining. Do you think maybe we misrepresent what the situation is in an attempt to sell people to come to our company?
Speaker 1:I think I have misrepresented much more than I have represented correctly. Like I mean, actually it comes down to the interview process. Like I don't think about it when it's time for interview.
Speaker 3:It's always fun. It's going to be fun to work here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, I got this going on and I'm over here all excited, but I'm not ever asking questions about what are your ambitions, what are you trying to accomplish? You know, because I think that it's really important. I have gotten better over the years. My interviews now look like hey, look, I'm like. Here's my interview process. Now, listen, I just want you to know, interviewee, this is going to be the hardest work that you've ever done in your life. Yeah, Like I expect everything you know and I am unrealistic and we're going to go to the. And like I'm doing everything that everyone's telling me that cannot be done. Right, I'm looking for a team of rising stars to join me in this fight.
Speaker 3:Yeah, If we're going to the moon. If you think that's not possible to go to the moon, and it's all fake. Don't join this team, man.
Speaker 1:Don't come on board. That is kind of my interview process now, but I think that my attempt there is to set a little bit of expectation that this is not the mailroom job, expectation that this is not a the mailroom job. Yeah, you know, because like you're gonna hurt, we're gonna hurt each other.
Speaker 3:If we're right, if we do that? No, you're absolutely right. I I love that. Well, I think we're afraid to do that because or a lot of us are because the labor pool is tight, yeah you know we're, but or at least we think it's tight.
Speaker 3:I don't think it's as tight as people think, because I think they've got the wrong criteria half the time. They're looking for education and experience instead of attitude and drive and personality attributes. That's all I'm looking for, man, you know Attitude? Yeah, I believe that, unfortunately, we're out of time. We need to say goodbye to our listeners. So goodbye listeners, goodbye listeners, until next week. It's been another episode of Big.
Speaker 1:Talk about Small Business.
Speaker 4:Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk about Small Business. If you have any questions or ideas for upcoming shows, be sure to head over to our website, wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscom and click on the Ask the Host button for the chance to have your questions answered on the show. Stay connected with us on LinkedIn at Big Talk About Small Business and be sure to head over to our website to read articles, browse episodes and ask questions about upcoming shows.