Big Talk About Small Business
Hosted by Mark Zweig and Eric Howerton. Our Mission is to inspire, empower, and equip entrepreneurs with the knowledge and insights they need to succeed in their ventures. Through engaging conversations with industry experts, seasoned entrepreneurs, and thought leaders, we aim to provide valuable strategies, actionable advice, and real-world experiences that will enable our listeners to navigate the challenges, seize the opportunities, and build thriving businesses.
Big Talk About Small Business
Ep. 100 - Sales Funnels, The Crown Jewel of Business
In this episode, Jose Socorro shows why sales is the crown jewel of entrepreneurship. Marketing may spark awareness, and operations may deliver value, but without sales, nothing moves forward.
Jose shares his compelling journey of helping his immigrant father establish a body shop business in New Jersey. With no formal business education but plenty of determination, Jose navigated forming an LLC, understanding complex regulations, and weathering literal storms—including Hurricane Sandy flooding their shop. His story reveals the emotional complexities of family business dynamics while highlighting practical lessons about business structure, insurance, and decision-making.
The conversation shatters common misconceptions about what makes a successful salesperson. Rather than focusing on personality types, Jose emphasizes developing personalized processes that leverage your natural strengths. Introverts can excel through data-driven approaches and careful preparation, while extroverts benefit from adding analytical discipline to their relationship skills. What matters most isn't being naturally outgoing, but creating systems that enable consistent prospecting and follow-through.
One particularly valuable insight comes from Jose's experience with his sales pipeline. After a successful quarter where he neglected prospecting, he discovered the painful 90-day lag effect when his pipeline dried up. This practical lesson underscores why entrepreneurs must dedicate focused time to sales activities, even when juggling countless other priorities.
The episode culminates with Jose's perspective on adopting an ownership mindset—thinking like an owner regardless of your position. This approach transforms how you make decisions, build relationships, and respond to challenges. When you understand business from the owner's perspective, you naturally align your efforts with long-term success rather than short-term convenience.
Whether you're considering entrepreneurship, working in a family business, or looking to improve your sales effectiveness, this conversation offers practical wisdom from someone who's navigated these challenges firsthand. What would change in your approach if you treated sales as your crown jewel?
You know, as an aspiring entrepreneur, a lot of folks underrate how significant sales is Like it's. You know, I've talked with folks that will. If you look at marketing, sales, operations, finance, legal, all everything's important in business, but if there's one crown jewel above them, all it's sales.
Speaker 1:Yes above them all, it's sales. Yes, all right, folks, we're back with another episode. A big talk about small business, and today Mark Zweig is out hanging out somewhere. I don't know what he's doing, but he's definitely not working here with me. He he's left me with all the hard work to do and I'll keep carrying on the show. That's just what I do, jose. I pick up Mark's slack. Even when he's here, I do it. When he's not here, I do it even more. No, I'm just kidding. I don't know what he's doing, but he couldn't be with his day, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:But I do have a fantastic guest here with me today we have Jose Socorro, and I did a decent job of pronouncing your last name, didn't I? Yes, you passed, I passed Great, jose. So you are. Tell us about yourself and your experience in business and what you're doing today, and then, before we started the show, you started talking about kind of your family history and entrepreneurship. I'd love for you to get that dialogue going again, because I think we have a lot of audience members out there that will appreciate that story.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely Well. Thank you for having me. I've been a big fan of Mark for many years. I wish I had my Panama Jack hat to pay him homage. I'm sure I'll hear about that later. My name is Jose Socorro. I'm originally from New Jersey, went to school in southwest Missouri, then I went back to New Jersey to help my dad with a small business in the middle of Hurricane Sandy and going and finishing my school, and then I stayed in New Jersey for a little longer, moved to Oklahoma around 2015. Met an Arkansas girl and I had options of where I wanted to go. New Jersey was not in the deck of cards at the time, so I ended up going to Arkansas, where she's from, and it's been great ever since. Those Arkansas girls will get you man.
Speaker 1:They will.
Speaker 2:They will get you.
Speaker 1:So you're from New Jersey. Your dad had a business up there, right? Yes, what was the business? It was a body shop business.
Speaker 2:Okay, so he's originally from the Dominican Republic, moved to the States, I believe, sometime in the 80s, okay, so he learned the trade from there and brought it over here. He'd been doing it for 30 plus years, probably 40 now, and one day he decided I'm going to go into into business. And he went into business with my uncle, who had a mechanic background and had worked in South Jersey for many years. So there was some rapport there and that was about the time I was finishing up in school, in college in southwest Missouri, and so it was interesting, I was in a different season of life, finishing up school in the political arena and really enjoying that.
Speaker 2:Then I get the call I'm gonna open a business. Okay, and I'll be there, and it was more than just I'm gonna go help my dad with the business. Obviously entrepreneurship is lucrative.
Speaker 3:I can make a lot of money.
Speaker 1:The potential is great yeah it's a good selling point, yeah.
Speaker 2:However, there's a lot of work to it. What was interesting is I didn't get a four-year degree. I ended up doing an associate's degree, just because of the change in my majors and just the time. I didn't want to be a college dropout, so I had to find the best way to say hey, I graduated college and an associate's degree is the best option, because I actually ended up working full-time my last two years in school.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And so that was preparing me in a way to transition out of Southwest or Midwest life back into Northeast life. I went into business with my dad and there was a lot that was not per se set up. Yeah, and so a lot of it I had to jump in and do the LLCs, understanding what works in the state of New Jersey, the laws, the rules, the guidelines for how to sign up for a business, get a business approved, and then finding out the prerequisites and the requirements. I think there was over 60 requirements at the time.
Speaker 1:Is this just for the body shop?
Speaker 2:For the body shop, because of that industry specifically Right, and being that New Jersey is a heavily regulated state with all kinds of rules, okay, and so it was that worked. So I went to school four years but got a two-year degree, and here I am having to really figure out this business model, diving in deep. And so they I didn't really get to go to those higher level business classes to figure it out. Yeah, what I did know is I asked the right questions, or learned how to ask the right questions, and because I like politics, it rolls into government so you kind of like the interest of learning and figuring out the questions and how to say the right things and all.
Speaker 2:I will tell you that it was the process of getting the right equipment for the body shop, and figuring out was a challenge because we wanted certain things. I had actually shadowed with a body shop in southwest Missouri for about two or three weeks prior to moving back.
Speaker 1:So did you shadow because you knew you were going to go up there and help. Correct, okay, got you. It was one of those where I found a gentleman weeks prior to moving back, so did you shadow because you knew you were going to go up there and help.
Speaker 2:Correct, okay, got you. It was one of those where I found a gentleman. We met and we had two lunches and I went to the shop and I learned and I got all that the operations is in the thousands just for the system and the software to estimate to work with insurance companies. We didn't have anything. We had zero dollars and and I can remember talking to my dad and going over, all right, I need this equipment, and it was over $30,000. And I was like, well, we can't afford that and we don't have the means. So this is an interesting dynamic because, culturally speaking, from the Hispanic culture side, parents are always right. You just do your, sir. Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2:And so it was a very interesting dynamic to get him to understand. Like this is still a thing, but we have to understand that if I am talking to you about a decision or walking you through something, it's not me going against you. It's me having enough understanding and common sense to be like this is going to put us in a pickle quickly. Yeah, so it was interesting working through that because we had to find creative ways for uh programming and licensing of of software estimates for insurance companies. I mean, thankfully, we uh there was an office max yeah, I believe so we, so we got a simple laptop.
Speaker 2:We found an estimating software, because 20 years ago they used to have these thick books. They would have every part, every VIN number and everything and that's how they wrote estimates. But this software system basically did that. And then I remember having to drive 40 minutes or so just to get paint, and just red paint is so expensive, it's painful, red paint to get paint and just red paint is so expensive, it's painful.
Speaker 2:Red paint Red paint Really. And then it gets really complicated once it gets you know to the tricot and the glossy. It gets really, really technical there. But that was interesting, that whole situation of I have to go buy the parts, get the parts, because my dad is limited in his English, okay, but he knows how to do the job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's an excellent trade supervisor and he's never been a supervisor or a manager, but he's a great worker. His work speaks for itself, yeah, and so I remember growing up he would take me on the weekends to kind of just learn and shadow, and my least favorite part was wet sanding cars, because there's an art to it. Yeah, and I didn't care for it because I didn't have the patience, but I learned, yeah, and, and he's really good at it and and that that body shop he did was how I got. He got my sisters and I through school, helped us get to college and afforded us vacations and all that, not being american born, so I'm really thankful for all that.
Speaker 2:But it was just interesting how you learn quickly how to find alternatives to what you need to get the job done yeah and, of course, at that time, when you start now, you take just about anything and you price it just to get some revenue, because I could remember looking at the bank and it stayed at a certain level and it wasn't a great level, but, um, it got things done. And at that time, uh, there was a point where, like, you can't afford to pay me, so I ended up taking two part-time jobs at two wonderful industries fast food.
Speaker 2:I worked at a McDonald's and a Chick-fil-A and I'll tell you, there's a lot I learned at McDonald's. They really have a good structure of teamwork, collaboration and training, and Chick-fil-A, of course, has done a lot to where they are a standard in customer service.
Speaker 2:So I'd go work at Chick-fil-A at five, six in the morning, leave. And then I also didn't tell you I also was a high school football coach At the same time. At the same time, and I didn't think I was going to do it because my first coaching job was in Southwest Missouri at a high school. So I got all right, I got that experience bucket list item, said well, let me try it again. And so I did that. Yeah, you were getting paid, though, right, uh, it was a stipend, it was like more of a. Then then you learn quickly. After you're one, you just want to be a volunteer because stipends will go really quickly. Yeah, tax season. And so I did that.
Speaker 2:Then at nighttime I work, I'd work at the McDonald's and then I would help my dad with the business. And it was interesting just the conversations with the accountant and the lawyers. He was one of those like okay, because it was my uncle and my dad. So like, okay, you're the most English-speaking and most understanding one, so I'm going to talk to you and you're going to talk to them. I'm like you got it. So I built rapport with two very important people, the accountant and the lawyer and they helped us and they worked us through it.
Speaker 2:Of course, I was in college when they signed the agreement and all that with the lawyer, and the story was really not my favorite. Had I been there, I probably would have said we can't do this, but my mom told me. So my mom gave me the full scoop and I was like whoa boy, I'm sure glad I wasn't there. But at the end of the day, it was more than just going to help with the business. I think there was a higher calling and, as a person of faith, there's more to it than just the job. There was a lot of things that were happening that really helped. It was about, hey, trying to keep the family intact, trying to keep morale, and I hadn't been with my family because I was in school four years.
Speaker 1:So there was a lot of good and a lot more than just being there to help. You really came back from school and navigated family, business, income and school, because I just got my associate's because I just started my bachelor's online degree program at Old Roberts University at the time, wow.
Speaker 2:So I barely had enough gpa to get in. So I'm a big sports guy and you know, if you win it by this much it counts.
Speaker 1:And that's kind of me, it just a little bit um, and so I was.
Speaker 2:I was doing school and all that, and then hurricane sandy hit. That was interesting because we were about a couple miles from the atlantic ocean, because atlantic city is not that far, about 10 minutes and we're right by the water. So we we got hit by the hurricane and that was the body shop did yeah the mechanics up in the body shop.
Speaker 2:I mean it, it got flooded, wow, basically it was pretty strong. I remember driving the day before the hurricane like it was already raining. They're already closing roads and I'm trying to figure out how do I get all these cars out of the shop, because we had a very high-end car in there at the time and I'm like all right, do you think I can get this bar to let me park all the cars there and my dad's like don't worry about it.
Speaker 2:And then I was like it was worth asking. And then I made the mistake of during the hurricane, because I was so far away from it. But during the hurricane I thought let me drive these streets to see how bad it is. And I learned very quickly you should have never done that, because the water was at levels it's never been Like. That's not any kind of rain. When you're about, you know, 5, 10 miles from a hurricane, even though you're not in the middle of it, you are getting a brunt of water that you'll never, ever see. And so that was my don't ever try to drive during a hurricane, even though you're like safe away.
Speaker 2:So that's a lesson learned. Please Got sketchy. Yeah, I got sketchy, but anyway that story was. That was an interesting experience working through that and learning insurance and understanding.
Speaker 1:So did you end up getting all the cars?
Speaker 2:out. No, they have stayed there and we just filed claims and just took care of it like that, basically. Like that, I mean letting the process play out, because that was a one-man show and my dad was out of town at the time, so I was trying to figure out how can I be proactive, but it just ended up not working. But you don't account for a hurricane, no, no, but it was a good learning experience. Experience. Make sure that you have all types of insurances.
Speaker 1:Yes, um and all but it's a big lesson, I mean, because those things happen and I mean if you didn't have that insurance, I mean it would have been devastating.
Speaker 2:Obviously a little bit bad, but yeah, um but sales was, uh, at that time it was just you just hope cars drop by and my uncle had enough business, a clientele, that they would come by and they would drop him some opportunities to my dad and I couldn't really per se be selling only because there's some. There's competitors, established competitors, and I had so many other things going at that point when I had moved on to work to try to support myself, to be available for my dad as a consultant, because Because you can say it was more about making sure hey, do you have any questions on the finances?
Speaker 2:Hey, do you need to order this part? Do you have any questions? Thankfully, new Jersey is a melting pot of diversity and so most vendors have a bilingual speaking representative, and they were a great help. And, of course, it's always a plus when you have vendor forms, because you get a bit of a discount, but then have when you have vendor formed, because you get a bit of a discount, but then there's also certain cars, makes and models that, um, you just got to go get the oem and that's it so it's just kind of interesting learning that the high-end vehicles you can't find duplicate parts for.
Speaker 2:That's what I also learned but I mean it was good. It really brought my dad and I together. I mean there were good days and there were hard days, but at the end I was glad to have that opportunity to work with him and learn and walk him through it. I know when, when the business gets brought up, he'll talk about I shouldn't have done it, I should have taken more caution and I'm sure that he had gotten that advice. But I think it's also a good thing too, because you know he's a quiet guy yeah good hard-working guy.
Speaker 2:I mean he just he's simple. Yeah, I'm not simple like him. Yeah, I like toworking guy. I mean he, just he's simple. Yeah, I'm not simple like him. Yeah, I like to be everywhere. I mean I DJ weddings and events on the weekends. I stay busy and I volunteer my time, so I he's. He's definitely not that, so for him I think it was a good thing and I think that you know that really brought contention in the family dynamics and even in my parents marriage.
Speaker 2:But it we worked it out and at the end, we're all better for it, so how?
Speaker 1:long did the? Is the business still exist? The business still exists, but my uncle now runs both oh okay, and how long was your dad in that business?
Speaker 2:about two years, about two years, yes, yes and how long were you in it? When you're helping out, I think I was there. I was there for about the whole time, oh really the two years that he did it, because I we ended up switching accountants because, we were transitioning out, so we found someone that the county recommended to help us not only just to exit out, but also just to better understand, and it worked out well.
Speaker 2:I think at the end of the day, my dad and uncle came to a good term on transitioning out and and their family. They grew up together and you know there was good times and hard times but at the end the day they've worked through it and then they're in a better spot now. And there's times where, you know, my uncle asked my dad to help out. Hey, I've got something, and so they've got that going. So it was a little rough but we worked through it yeah and we all came out.
Speaker 1:Uh, better for it I'm assuming your your uncle is your dad's brother yes, sir, yeah so yeah, that's kind of risky. I mean, I think that you know for folks out there, you know that are tuning in, you know that might be thinking about doing a business with family members. Mark and I have talked about this a lot. It has some risk associated to it. What would you say would be one of the top or two risks associated with working with family members in a business?
Speaker 2:I think it's the finances first. Second, with the finances, how is the business going to be divided? Is it the 50-50?
Speaker 2:the business going to be divided? Yeah, is it the 50-50? Is the 60-40? Because if let's say the person who doesn't have the capital, we'll call it the power, maybe they're the brains and they're the ones that the family members identified.
Speaker 2:If I have you and I give you a good amount, even though I'm funding it, if you're not in it I can't do much about it. So there's got to be lines drawn, because there were times where there were some interesting conversation and takes on. Well, this is mine, or I need to charge you this and I'm like no, I think if you go in there with the right motives, where, unfortunately, maybe you do get two lawyers and you write terms out and you agree on an exit strategy, or if things get better, you do that because money is the biggest part. The other part is who has control or who gets to say what if we have to make a big decision. There's gray areas is probably the best way to put it. But if you have it written down and there's a mutual agreement before you sign, that's even better but.
Speaker 2:If it's just like blind. Let us just leave it in the hands of the people that we're going to pay and know it. I don't know that that's probably the best idea. Unfortunately, you can speak to this better than I do. That happens a lot more more and so, unfortunately, oh, I have to do that. Oh, I didn't know that. Then, all of a sudden, it's like oh, I want to get out of here because I don't feel really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that the you know businesses are so deep and complex and there's so many things that can happen. I mean you can have a hurricane, right. I mean, like, when things like that happen, you don't know, you know, you don't know, you know you can't have the foresight to know all those things to mitigate. And if I was working with my brother or something you know, I mean we obviously really close, but you know, when it gets into business there has to be those practical things, you know, very objective, and it's hard to be objective, you know, in a subjective relationship yeah you know, it's just, it just is and and if you can map out some decision making.
Speaker 1:You know, and it's funny you bring up about like the capital part, like I recently was in a discussion with somebody and you know the good thing about capital and business and it took me a long time to understand this but the money can actually simplify a lot of things and establish the equity amount and that establishes the decision power right, which you know, if you're a startup in a business and you have an idea, the hard thing is is somebody that has an idea that and I've seen it a hundred times and I used to do it when I was younger I was like I got this idea.
Speaker 1:It's got so much value, so much potential. If I go talk to an investor or a capital person and they have 10,000 bucks but I have this idea that I think in my head is worth a million in this $10,000 and I have zero dollars but they're going to have majority, it's like I'm like you know I'll run away from that, but the reality is, is that that $10 thousand dollars trumps the idea because it's actually real money, you know, and if you're going into business with your family, you know cash is still king and oh, a hundred percent.
Speaker 2:Everybody's got to understand that I mean, I love sports yeah big football guy and I can tell you right now uh, studying film and studying your opponent is important, crucial. I bring this up because I have to insert my likes in a way in the talk to make Now studying film and studying your opponent is important and crucial. I bring this up because I have to insert my likes in a way in the talk to make it make sense. Yeah, but for anyone that's like I want to start a business or I have an idea and I want to go to someone who has the money, just watch Shark Tank. Yeah, just watch. I mean, I never understood the valuation like how you take $10,000 and it goes to a million.
Speaker 2:I'll learn that one day. By now, in the season of life I'm in, it's not something I have to worry about, but it's really good to study all the pitches and hear what Kevin O'Leary has to say, mark Cuban and Barbara Connery all those amazing individuals because you really learn and understand quickly. Okay, you have the idea, they have the money. You know you're going to give up a lot, and the problem is, cash is king, and when you have to make a decision because the investor sees you as well you have the idea. I like it, and it's somewhat idiot proof, but I don't think you know how to make a decision when certain situations present themselves, and I do. You may not like it, though, because you're not familiar or you're pretty gray.
Speaker 2:You may have second thoughts. So that's probably a great, a good show to be like. I know they tell you go to a VC and all that, and I'm not knocking them.
Speaker 2:They all have a purpose and they do what they need to do and it produces good things. But if you're not really sure that you want to give up a lot of control and be told what to do, especially if you're pretty stubborn, male or female that's maybe not the route you need to go. Maybe you need to just save up and find a different route.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or respect the way it goes, right, because it's the process. The process is not going to change and it's interesting People try to change the process.
Speaker 2:I get it because we're in a time now my generation and younger let's contest and challenge the status quo. Now I understand why, when my parents or teachers told me don't do something, don't go past the line, I understand now why you don't do it, because we see a lot of people go over the line and now we have a lot of confusion and disorientation.
Speaker 2:But yeah, if you don't know how to answer to folks. Don't, do't do something, don't go into the. I'm going to ask someone for their money because they have the right. Yeah, they do, absolutely, it's cash flow.
Speaker 1:It is I mean, and you know, and I think that that was hard, I mean I just remember reflecting back when I was a young entrepreneur and and just not respecting that as much you know about the cash, because I was working hard, I had the idea I was in the streets really hitting it hard and I, you know, it was really hard for me to relate to somebody that okay, if you got a million dollars but you want so much of this company I've been working on for, you know, years, like it doesn't make sense but you have the right as that entrepreneur to make that decision of it. Do you take it or not? But if you take it, you need to understand you just change the game, kind of like back to your sports analogy, right, like I mean, it's a different quarter, it's a different situation, different scoreboard and you have to play by that game because you can't go into it being frustrated because that will just make things really complicated.
Speaker 1:Oh no, absolutely. So. What are you doing now, Jose? What's going on?
Speaker 2:I'm in the business of creating and providing opportunity, that's the nice way to put it.
Speaker 1:Nice pitch yeah.
Speaker 2:So with Jam Pro, I've been tasked to grow the business selling cleaning services on behalf of the franchisees that have bought in to wanting to grow their business and create something for themselves whether it's a new life, new career or just a residual income. And that's what I'm tasked with, and so I started out doing a couple of things. So when I was hired on, I was originally more of a sales operations individual in Fort Smith or rep, more of a sales operations individual in Fort Smith or rep. And then changes came up here and so for the time being I was tasked also to support sales efforts in Northwest Arkansas and at one time even Russellville. So that was a nice little L. I'm in the Fort Smith area, that's where I reside, and so it was a nice little L. But then we made some changes so that I can focus more in Northwest and Fort Smith, and so it's basically supporting an office team that I work with to support customers and the franchisees and also our parent company out of Little Rock the.
Speaker 2:Beck Davis Group Shout out to you guys Thank you, they've been great. The support has been great. They've been great. Uh, it's, the support has been great. But I've also learned the importance of you can have good relationships and good communications with your leaders, but it's there's still got to be the business professionalism where you can't let the friendliness overtake because you I'm sure you hear it oh work. We're one big family and I've all. I've talked to some hr leaders in different industries like no, no no, no that's not it, nope.
Speaker 2:I mean the moment and the occasions present themselves and leads to the idea and so sure, I also look at it as being in sports, you know, you see the coaches high five, handshake, hug the guys. That's how I kind of am. Not with most customers they're handshake hello, but with some of my peers it's like a handshake fist bump. How's it going? It's a cultural thing too, but I've had to learn how to scale that back and manage that, Because that has gotten me in not so good situations in the past. Right, and it's some hard lessons emotionally.
Speaker 2:Sure, that's the biggest thing. I'm in the business of meeting a need for the customer and also supporting a business owner. That's A put, an investment. But also, if they do a good job and they work well with us, we want to help them grow. And so everyone's different too, Managing those relationships. Every franchisee has a different dynamic and they have different strengths. So it goes back to the sports part, Because Phil Jackson said it best when asked about how do you manage Dennis Rodman? Well, he interacted and approached Dennis much different than he did Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, et cetera, et cetera. So to me that is a good lesson from a successful leader, Phil Jackson, Because even though I'm responsible to grow business and all, I also have the responsibility to make sure there's a good relationship and that there's respect and trust and that they're getting a good shake yeah and also teaching them.
Speaker 2:Hey, I know you want things priced a certain way, but we're learning the market, we're understanding the customer and this is really where we need to be. So it's also that coaching, that training and development every time you have those opportunities, because the more you just assume well, I could do this for this many hours, and is that Sure? However, what I've learned in my, in my time every week and month, that that that's not the case. Yeah, we've got to be able to make sure we meet them where they're at and then, with that, also just involved with groups in northwest arkansas as well, to just grow and learn and also give back, because northwest arkansas is a very, very relationship driven region and it makes a difference who you know. You make a mistake, but if you can fix it, yeah, within a timely fashion, that also goes a long way if you don't have the relationship or if you do. But I say relationship-driven because in big cities you would think relationships drive, yes, but the name of the company also drives, and who you are here in Northwest Arkansas.
Speaker 2:even though we're growing and we're diverse and we're progressing and we're bringing a lot, there's still a functional core value family. Very cautious who you bring in your circles. That really ties into when Walmart was being started by Mr Walton, which I'm going to do a quick pitch. Made in America is a book that everyone should be reading.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent I agree. I love that book.
Speaker 2:I haven't read it in a while. I gave my copy to someone years ago in Springfield and I didn't expect it back, but I see copies of it. I learn so much. Mr Walton's story is impressive, you should listen to the audiobook.
Speaker 1:The audiobook's fantastically done too.
Speaker 2:I'm just not getting into the podcast.
Speaker 1:Well, you're not. You're out on podcasts, the podcasts are more.
Speaker 2:I just accomplished that, got the badge. Awesome podcast, the audiobooks. I'm going that's probably maybe a 2026 goal. Okay, gotcha, but it's interesting.
Speaker 2:I gave the pitch on that, but with sales everyone does it different. So on my team we have one gentleman who's been with with with our Arkansas team for a long time and he's really good and very successful, but his method just I just wasn't clicking with me and especially the way I learned. I think it's more about my learning style and I really have to. You have to dumb it down like you have to simplify it like right, one plus one equals two. I'm not ashamed, I have a master's degree, but listen, listen for me to learn and grasp it.
Speaker 2:You got to break it down, just like watching film, whether it's basketball or football. I've been in meetings where they're like four and a half hours and we're watching one play 20 times so that we understand that individual's move, what they're doing and how we can counter it and what we need to do to make sure, if they do that, that we know how to a counter it but to defeat it. Every time we're trying to do something specific and so podcasts were anything, but I got onto this podcast from this very successful sales leader out of st Louis. His name is Mike Weinberg and when I listen to that podcast he had this one gal from st Louis that doubled her sales by over 160% in a year.
Speaker 2:I was like all right, what did she do? Because everybody thinks with sales there's a trick, a secret, some magic dust, something amazing that I'm going to do. And when they come to find out Hannah the Hunter was her name- Hannah, the Hunter huh.
Speaker 2:She did three things that were basic best practices that anybody can do and if you do it consistently, it technically should produce A lesson I learned last year. What were the three? Oh man, you know, to be honest, it's been a minute but it pertained around follow-up calls, scheduled calls, follow-up meaning I'm going to call these certain individuals. The other part had to do more with organized, focused approaches to managing the funnel. And those are the only two that I can remember because it's been a minute. But I talk to a lot of salespeople and that's the episode I send them because that one had three best practices that I could apply. The biggest thing that I'm working on still is the prospecting. Yeah, the sitting down, because to me if I'm sitting down before, I'm like, oh, I'm losing time.
Speaker 1:I got to be out, I got to be knocking on doors.
Speaker 2:I got to go to events, but the prospecting one, that's still what I'm wrestling with because the activity is consistent and good, but the prospecting which, again, prospecting could be defined a couple of ways. Right, it could be the I'm going to sit down and organize a list, or I'm going to go somewhere Well, organize a list would be one. Or I'm going to make phone calls. So prospecting has an open. I guess it depends how you look at it, but for me, prospecting would be organizing a list and then planning a time to call yeah and.
Speaker 2:But I I learned a hard lesson on the importance of prospecting because what Mike talks about in the podcast. I even bought his book because to me it's like a playbook, like a guide, like check your processes when you read the book and then you'll know okay, I need to fix this. And so Q4 of last year really busy, really good, a lot of activity, good account starts. But I was really weak on the prospecting, on the new leads, keeping the funnel busy, and I went to a Jam Pro sales operations stuff in Virginia and our national sales leaders made a great point that I never heard of. There's two things golden hour, three or four hours of just calling. The other one is if you don't keep your funnel active and busy I'll say weekly, because I just got much, if I could do it daily, that's the goal, right. If you don't keep your funnel busy within the next 90 days of that month, you're going to feel it.
Speaker 2:And guess what? Q1 of this year I was like man. And again, you can make 100 calls and not get anywhere. But if you get 10 responses of yes, no, maybe next time, then okay, now. You know I'm going to target these 10 calls because I got a response and they told me here's what you need to do next time you talk to me. So that's the other thing learning how to prioritize those calls. So if I make 10 calls and three people tell me no, not now. Not now means I'm going to call you in the future and you're still active. I think a lot of times you call someone and they don't answer. They tell you no and you're like, ah, they're done. I'm like no, no, they're done today, they're not done the next 90, 220 days, and even when I lose bids not today we're going to try it down the road.
Speaker 1:You know what's funny about sales? I've noticed that salespeople in the experience myself, like we can get, I think it's number one. Sales is just like a very emotional. It requires a significant amount of emotional intelligence, you know, and there is a lot of practicality to it. Sorry, man, I forgot to turn my phone off. There is a lot of practicality to it. Processes, right, which I think we hear a lot of folks, you know there's books about, like you were talking about.
Speaker 1:But at the end of the day, when you recall somebody and they say not now, there's a lot of folks that would take that as a rejection, right, and then they would. They would not understand that somebody that's wanting to buy when they say not now, it doesn't mean that they're not interested. Right, it's a lot of. It has to be at the right timing, with the right person with the right product.
Speaker 1:But you know, I have the right money in my bank account, I'm willing to make, I'm trying to grow my business, you know, or whatever it is, and so to try to find a, a contact that is in that very moment, is extremely rare and challenging. But that's what you're trying to do, right, and so you know, I think that when folks think about this and you're talking about this prospect and you're trying to gauge, you know where you're really trying to understand where they're at in that timeline of making a decision. And if they say no, that doesn't mean no, forever, too right, but it does mean don't bother them for a certain period of time, just kind of come back in at some other point down the road. But you know, you kind of got to gauge these ratings and these scores with these folks and then your process is how you keep up with all that correct right, because there's many ways to generate the lead and get the opportunity.
Speaker 2:And so when I get told no now, it just means okay, even though I need to, with the franchise sales and the model men, I need to be producing every month. So that's, that's the biggest pressure, is you got to produce and deliver. And so one thing I've learned, uh, within the last year, is the sales process is more than 30, 60 days and so more reason, yeah, to work hard on a weekly basis to get new calls in.
Speaker 2:Let's say you make 30 not a good number, but you're making them yeah and let's say you get maybe five responses yeah, be realistic with the yet national average of close rates and people that'll answer your phone. Well, that that wasn't good. But you made calls and I think it's also a mindset of the consistency along with the determination that okay, yeah, maybe I made 50 calls, I got nowhere, but it's the practice because it's going to pay off. And in that book, new Sales Simplified from Mike, he talks about weapons and I'm like weapons, interesting Weapons, prospecting, networking, cold calling, email blasts, linkedin, which when I connect with someone on LinkedIn I'm like man, I want to call on their business. I hate. Thank you for the connection and more than likely I may try to see. If they're at an event, I may even try to call, but I'm not going to solicit them my way.
Speaker 2:There's very few times I do that and if I do, because I've heard the feedback, even from customers that deal with that. But with sales and other things, yeah, I don't want to be that guy. I want to try to be the guy. Like you know, I don't know him. He seems connected.
Speaker 2:I know people he knows I may never talk to him but I'll connect with him and I'll send a thank you yeah, sometimes I forget because there's so many or I got a lot going on um, but it's utilizing those weapons, those different avenues to get the business and not harass them on linked like is the case. But it's simple because you think about it. When you call a client you're not getting the results, but maybe you have been generating opportunities through networking events, which I do enjoy. I am a social person. I do sleep, I promise I do sleep. Hard to believe but I do.
Speaker 2:And I do rest when I sleep yeah, and it also helps when you have a young family, because they'll keep you. Oh yeah you know those one or two in the morning. I miss you, mom and dad, how you doing didn't plan for that.
Speaker 2:But we're ready. Yeah, but the the different avenues are. You got the networking, you've got the cold calling, got the prospecting, you've got the oh wait a minute. Then I call on someone the year before. Oh hey, and that's the beautiful thing about this year, as I'm going into my second year, I'm starting to get those calls.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh, that's a pretty good feeling. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Or you know and you get outside help coming in. Salespeople and businesses rely too heavily on third-party marketing efforts.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And it really needs to be. You need to have a lot of options.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there are different divisions on that. I mean, like you know as a business owner, you know as an aspiring entrepreneur, a lot of folks underrate how significant sales is, like it's. You know, I've talked with folks that will. If you look at marketing, sales, operations, finance, legal, all everything's important in business. But if there's one crown jewel above them all it's sales and the entrepreneur has to be 100% involved in the sales. I mean in selling that product and being relentless about putting that at the very top.
Speaker 1:And I've been guilty of it myself in my businesses, even some of the ones I have right now, of not remembering on the significance of that. Because you cannot achieve what you need to achieve just with marketing. You know you cannot do it just by having a great product. All those things matter. But the sales process and the emphasis on sales, because that's where you know it solves a lot of the other problems. I mean money will solve problems. It also creates problems. Growth, right, and growth is painful, but it's better to be growing than it is to be dying and needing sales right.
Speaker 2:Amen to that.
Speaker 1:And so I think that, as an entrepreneur, you know somebody that's listening, that's not about to open up their business. I mean, what would you do as a professional salesperson? Right, like, what would be your first thing? You have nothing, a clean sheet of paper. Right, you have a product idea, but what would you recommend? Like, how do you start If I was trying to sell this coffee cup right here?
Speaker 2:what would you do? I'm glad you didn't ask me sell me this pen. I've been in those meetings and it's like A it's insulting. It insulted my talents. It's like, okay, it's a pen and I know the practice, but it's just like whoa. I think process is a big thing. Starting a small business and I can tell you you know my leadership team process is something they're good at. It's something we're growing and learning. But process is the most important. First of all, you've got to overcome your fear of selling. You don't have to be an extrovert.
Speaker 1:I think, when it comes to sales, you know when to talk, when to emphasize a point and when to scale it back. So, jose, hold on a second, because you bring up processes, right. But then you went, I think, to step two about about being a good salesperson, but on the processes part because this, there's a little mystery here for maybe somebody that doesn't know sales when you say processes and I have this coffee cup what do you mean by process in a sales process?
Speaker 2:I think it's number one. Who do you want to target? Because not every customer you want to talk to. Okay, I think you also learn in sales. You call on a customer, you're thinking this is going to be great and as you get to learn about them during the discovery phase, you're like we may not be a good fit, but you learn. I think every call, whether you win or lose it or you don't want to do it, you learn something and it makes you better.
Speaker 1:I think a process is.
Speaker 2:What am I going to do first?
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:All right. So I've got to learn how to sell. I've got to learn my product and I've got to learn how to sell. But if I'm an introvert and I don't like talking to people, I have to operate in my strengths. I think that's another one thing too, because you got to write out. I'm a big scripted guy. When you know, I've been DJing for over nine years and everything has a beginning, a start and a beginning, middle and end yeah and that's what you need to know gotcha.
Speaker 1:That's why you jumped into that second part, because you're talking about you're really what you're saying. Okay, I'm a solo entrepreneur starting this coffee cup sales is my number one thing, first thing I need to do in sales. What's my process and what you're actually recommending is there's not like a templated process that's called a sales process out there.
Speaker 2:That would be nice, it wouldn't be. If you find it, give it to me. Yeah right, I know.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think that's a good point, because I think there's a lot of people that think there is something that they're missing. There is something that they're missing, but the reality is, what you're kind of saying is what is your individual process to help you have greater success? And you build that around who you are, like you mentioned, introverted, but that's fine you can be an introverted, really excellent salesperson. Yes.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm not introverted, but for the sake of the conversation, yeah, yeah, because that's the thing too I want to hit the hard part where most people think, well, salespeople are friendly and they're aggressive and pushy. There's a time and a place. They're still working on their process, but I think you got to know how you're going to go into it. And if plan A doesn't work, what's your plan B? I think that's why I love sports so much is because you have at least three ways to execute a play. And if option A doesn't work, well, what is option B and C? Okay, so now I know what option A, b and C. I know who I want to talk to. All right, what do I need to know about selling it? If something happens? You get asked a question Well, what happens if this breaks down? Well, that's a great question. Let me look into and get back to you. So you got to have a FAQ, I guess, or?
Speaker 2:a troubleshooting scenario when you're trying to sell your product but you can't go in there. I got this a great idea this is amazing. You should do it that that doesn't tell anybody anything and it doesn't get confidence, especially if they don't know you. But for me, even in sales and even in other things I do, I want to script out, at least have a bullet point of what I'm going to do, so that if I get scared or something happens and I jump the gun and I go from step one to four oh, I didn't prepare for this. Well, I need to get back into the rhythm and sync, to get back to what I was trying to do, because you know you can speak better to this than I can, and I have some experiences.
Speaker 2:You had one way to approach a sales call. All of a sudden there's a question out of left field or a comment and you're like, well, I did not expect that. But then all of a sudden you're playing defense, you're trying to get caught up and now all of a sudden you have to change your entire sales call just to make sure you're letting them know we're here, we're interested, but I need to figure a way to say I don't know. You can say I don't know, but saying it in a way that I'm going to get an answer to you here we go, and then you show up for that yeah.
Speaker 2:It's got to be scripted, and I used to not be that way like disorganized. But now I've learned through the years in life outside of sales and now in sales you definitely want to get a cadence, but you definitely want to know what you're going to talk about. Like a skeleton, we have bones and everything has a function and all, and you've got to know your plan inside and out so if something does change and you lose track, you can get back to it.
Speaker 1:That's what you know. It's put a why an introvert could be an excellent salesperson because they can. An extrovert, I think, or somebody you know that that that is a little bit more outgoing, or whatever that can, that doesn't mean a stranger. There's a lot of value to that. That's what we see in that and that's what I think a lot of people would think of as salesperson, like you said, but an introvert and I've met introverts really excellent salespeople that are excellent at building data-backed scripts, like you know. So many percentage of people do this and that's a value proposition as to why you want to buy this coffee cup. They can dive deep in this world to where an extrovert person would never even go that route.
Speaker 2:But I'm going to say this extroverts and this is where I've had to learn to get more into the data and the analytics. My time at JB Hunt I learned a lot about sales and operations and even though I wasn't getting new business, I was responsible to take the business that sales got and find a truck that could do that a good rate to where the customer wins, gets what they want, but also J behind as a business can keep their doors open. So finding those numbers and margins and that taught me early. Yeah, you need to be about data. You may be an extrovert because I had a logistics job before I came on the Jam Pro and I had a VP 30-something-year veteran in the company and he said the devil are in the details and you need to know your numbers better than your boss does. And that's where I encourage extroverts. You need to get on the level or in the mindset of the analytical colleagues of yours to know the numbers and know what you're doing, because you don't want to be selling not knowing. Because if you know your numbers, I'm going to say this this name is illegal in Arkansas. I could literally be arrested for saying the name Nick Saban, but I'm going to say it anyway, because, as a football guy, a fan and an aspiring coach at one time, he's the model of what every coach wants to be, because he's all about process making sure you do well.
Speaker 2:When I coach football, what I learned is that fundamentals trumps talent and skill alone.
Speaker 2:You need both, but if you have fundamentals and you know the basics and you can execute and figure out how to overcome a situation when your size is a problem or your speed, but you have the basics down, you're going to be able to run around circles around those that have just pure talent and aren't even exercising 100%. So it goes both ways where extroverts have to be more data conscious and more particular about learning and being able to be on the level of their introverts. Introverts, on the other hand, have to know that you don't have to be outgoing, but you definitely have to know how to communicate, how to share, how to talk, because more than half of the sales folks in the Walmart vendor space are not the I'm going to have a beer and I'm going to yell at the screen kind. They're the quiet, we'll have a cup of coffee, we'll talk, and they're just as valuable as the extroverts. So they both have to learn how to utilize each other's strengths, because you need both.
Speaker 1:You do, yeah, yeah, you really do. It's like, if you're an introvert, what's your process to help you create boxes to be more of an extrovert? If you're an extrovert, what's your process to create boxes to be more introverted, with the data and the numbers? You know that discipline Extroverts may not have very much discipline on the numbers and all these facts and analytics that go behind their sales process.
Speaker 1:And it's the opposite with introverts, because, as an introvert like, again, the ones that I've met and worked with they do not like showing up. It does not feel good to them, for you know, for exactly what an introvert is to go to an event, shake hands, you know, get to know people break the ice, but you have to do that. Sales requires both sides of that and I really appreciate that comment about the process because, if I was just starting out, the entrepreneur has so much to think about. They have, like you mentioned, talking about your story with your dad, like the LLC, the legal stuff, getting the accounting together, getting your books together, all the regulations that you've got to buy, getting insurance. It's nothing but a spider web of all kinds of crap to do.
Speaker 2:And I actually enjoyed that, by the way which most people don't getting insurance. It's nothing but a spider web of all kinds of crap to do.
Speaker 1:And I actually enjoyed that, by the way, which most people don't, right, but I did so. I guess I'm unique in that way. Yeah, maybe you can get a lot of business doing that for people, because I'd probably pay somebody to do that for me. Oh, absolutely no.
Speaker 2:But it was fun. I mean, every job I had has taught me a lot, and maybe some jobs don't end well but, I, think there's always positives and best practices.
Speaker 2:I think, having an ownership mindset and I'll bring this up because this is one that I've enjoyed Because when I worked at Central States great company, great values. They have three main core values, which is act in love, own it and can do. And the own it part is hard, because if we're not responsible for it or something went wrong but it wasn't you, but you're a part of that group guess what own it means? Well, you know what, I'll take it, I'll take it. And that's how.
Speaker 2:Because when I put my try to put my shoes in our owner's perspective, you know, cashflow is important, retaining accounts is important, treating the franchisees is important, even though they're not in that day-to-day. Think about the importance of keeping all those three things cash flow, relationships and retention and you say, well, I wanted to do something and they told me, no, well, let me think about it from their perspective. That makes a difference when you own it. And then, having a can-do attitude, there's a lot of things that I do that I've done in my other job that probably aren't in the job description, I probably don't have to do, but I do it because the results is trust, great rapport, strength and the ability to push through hard times and then act in love. That one when you're dealing with truck drivers.
Speaker 2:At times that's a hard one because they're old enough to be your dad and grandpa, let me tell you they have colorful vocabulary, yeah, but it's what they call for. So taking the experiences at every place I've been has helped me to be where I am with Jam Pro, where I think and act like an owner, even though I'm an associate and I have a time frame to work from. I don't look at it like that and I have a time frame to work from. I don't look at it like that. If I think about it as an owner and companies that have an employee-owner approach, like what they call ESOP, you can see there's a big difference. When you treat it like it's your business and you put your shoes in the owner's shoes, then you're like all right, it's fun, it's like, because what?
Speaker 2:if I were in their shoes, how would I look at it?
Speaker 1:What can I learn? Yeah, and for a business owner, to put yourself in your team's shoes, yeah, and it goes both ways and our group does that and we're always growing and learning.
Speaker 2:But I mean we're very successful, we're growing, we're becoming a very well-known market across the other Jamf Pros just because of the work of our ownership group as well as the operations support staff.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, we're doing a lot of good things and we have great small business owners and we're always going to welcome more.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well hey, jose, unfortunately I have time. It's crazy how fast time goes by, but we need to have you back in because I want us to dive deeper into franchising. For those listeners that are out there that are thinking about getting into business or thinking about getting into a franchise, I think you know what is the life like as a franchisee, what's the life like as a franchisor. We've talked about that a few times and that's a really interesting conversation. So I wanted to do that. But I love our conversation today.
Speaker 1:I appreciate your story that you had that experience with your dad. I man, you know, to make it through that and to see the positivity and the things that were outcomes, that's, that's uh, that's, that's some good awareness there and in good structure. And then just the whole conversation about the sales model. I mean, hopefully that gives folks I've seen. I mean I have just experienced people. I mean I have just experienced people, introvert people that have business ideas and a dream, that don't allow themselves to take that step because they don't feel like, maybe that they're not that personality that you see as an entrepreneur and you don't have to be. There's been a lot of fantastic introverts out there that have been extremely successful and I'm you know. I feel like that. That was good to hear from a professional sales sales person like yourself to describe that, so it's good stuff man well, thank you for having me yeah, so, folks, thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 1:Uh, we'll be back in next time. Don't forget to subscribe to our e-newsletter, to like it on the YouTube, to tell your friends about it. We're growing. It's been pretty cool. We're getting a lot more questions in about ideas for business and franchising. One sales is definitely obviously one that we get quite a bit, and also the family business stuff. Right, that's always a big question. Should I? I would say that a lot of folks have been. Well, why shouldn't you is really the first question you should ask right what could happen.
Speaker 1:So anyway, thank you very much. Appreciate you, Jose. Thank you. And thanks everybody.
Speaker 3:It's been another fantastic episode of Big Talk About Small Business. We'll see you next time. Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk about Small Business. If you have any questions or ideas for upcoming shows, be sure to head over to our website, wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscom and click on the Ask the Host button for the chance to have your questions answered on the show. Stay connected with us on LinkedIn at Big Talk About Small Business and be sure to head over to our website to read articles, browse episodes and ask questions about upcoming shows.