Big Talk About Small Business
Hosted by Mark Zweig and Eric Howerton. Our Mission is to inspire, empower, and equip entrepreneurs with the knowledge and insights they need to succeed in their ventures. Through engaging conversations with industry experts, seasoned entrepreneurs, and thought leaders, we aim to provide valuable strategies, actionable advice, and real-world experiences that will enable our listeners to navigate the challenges, seize the opportunities, and build thriving businesses.
Big Talk About Small Business
Ep. 104 - Success Starts with Showing Up
Success in your first job isn't what most people think. Forget the conventional wisdom about comprehensive benefits packages, comfortable working hours, and clearly defined job descriptions. The real path to professional achievement requires a fundamental shift in mindset that most career advisors never mention.
In this eye-opening discussion, we challenge the pervasive belief that success comes from finding the right company with the best benefits. Instead, we reveal how truly successful professionals view their early careers as investment opportunities, not transactional relationships where they expect immediate returns for their efforts. This mentality difference separates rising stars from those who remain stagnant throughout their careers.
We explore why high-growth companies, though potentially offering fewer traditional benefits, provide exponentially more valuable opportunities for career advancement. When you join a company experiencing rapid expansion, you'll likely handle responsibilities far beyond your official role, creating skills, connections, and experiences that simply aren't available in more structured environments. As we point out, "The visibility of value is instantaneous and recognizable, not only to your boss and peers, but to the community and clients you serve."
Many young professionals unknowingly carry an unconscious suspicion toward employers, constantly looking for evidence they're being exploited. This confirmation bias becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy that undermines relationships and limits opportunities. We offer practical strategies for overcoming this mindset, including being responsive to communication, developing strong writing skills, seeking mentorship, and networking throughout your organization.
Whether you're just starting your career or looking to accelerate your professional growth, this episode provides a roadmap for success that challenges conventional wisdom while offering actionable insights. The path to exceptional achievement isn't about finding the perfect job; it's about bringing the perfect mindset to whatever opportunity comes your way.
Two or two other things I just want to bring up. When it talks about, you know, when we talk about success in the first job, One of them is be on time People who are not on time for meetings, showing up for work whatever, repeatedly they're out. It's a bad, bad sign. Most of the time I get there early.
Speaker 2:Good morning folks. It's not even morning. It could be evening for you, it could be 2 am for you, right?
Speaker 1:now, because you woke up in a cold sweat thinking about work. You know what I did have to get up last night in the middle of the night a couple times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my wife, she needed me to help her out. She was having some kind of a weird like it's almost like a diabetic reaction where she's got to have sugar. Oh, really yeah, it's related to long COVID, Really yeah, but she mostly has it all under control now. So many different doctors and so many different things, but anyway. So, yeah, we were up last night and I was doing some work. Hell yeah, I got two. Hell yeah, and then at five and at six I think I got out of my jammies by maybe 7.30.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had to get dressed. I had to drop my computer off at Megabyte Should be a sponsor of this show, by the way, speaking of sponsors, megabyte Computer Center and Rogers.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:And then they provide IT support to SY Group. And then I had a meeting with one of my former students who's a woman entrepreneur. Just doing so many things, it just blows me away.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 1:I mean, she is something else, getting ready to start a new development project. She is Right, very exciting concept for what they're going to do. Just going and getting it. Huh, just making it happen. Yeah, man, just digging it, making it happen, reaching out, doing it.
Speaker 2:Yep, not fooling around, advancing, moving ahead, that's right man hearing the word no and keep going.
Speaker 1:It's all it takes it does it really does, it's just so much. Of entrepreneurship is action versus planning you know?
Speaker 2:no, it was. I was actually having a meeting this morning with another entrepreneur, and I would say that he was. You know, we can at times, even as entrepreneurs, start believing in the greater theories that are put out there in business, those being you know, like there's some specific way to do something or that you should work your way out of your business and you know blah, blah, blah, all these other types of things.
Speaker 2:But you get confused because you knew at one time you dogged it out, worked just relentlessly, yeah. And then you grow the company and then you start kind of feeling like there's this pattern that you need to go by because you're in more uncharted territory. And then you start losing the grip on stuff and you're like well, how do I advance? I mean, it's always the same answer yeah, get back in the trenches, just work harder. Yeah, you know, I always tell my team, you know you can work harder, you can work longer, you can work smarter and you can work faster.
Speaker 1:How about? Do all four? Yeah, five. Do all five? Yeah, that's the answer. Exactly, it's always the answer. It's not one. Or it's like I work smarter, I don't want to work harder. No, how about work? Smarter and harder, it's so true.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I like the, you know, like we hear some of the big entrepreneurs out there, the little famous ones, you know they're like. You know they calculate it If I work 60 hours a week. You know, over the year's time I've worked another half year than you. If I've worked 80, I've done the same amount you have in one year. I've done two times more than you Exactly. You compound that over five years like I've worked an extra five years than you have in five years yeah, and that makes a big difference.
Speaker 1:It's, it's, it's really true. It's funny. I remember Dale Carlton, who's my real estate broker and he's also an attorney. He's done every transaction I've ever done here in Northwest Arkansas I did with Dale he's a really good friend too, but he likes to tell the story about when he was working.
Speaker 1:He was going through law school and he was working for Lindsay and Jim Lindsay calls him in his office and says hey, dale, how's it going? He goes, it's going good. He goes, you know he goes, I just wanted to check up on you. And he goes, you think you can make it working in this business halftime. And Dale's like well, you know, I mean I'm working a lot while I go to school or whatever. And Jim's like he goes, yeah, and you know he goes 84 hours a week. You know there's only so much you can get done.
Speaker 3:Halftime, 12 hours a day, seven days a week. That's his definition of halftime, right yeah.
Speaker 1:No wonder. Jim Lindsay ended up. You know, today they've got like 50,000 apartment units. I mean it's mind boggling, but hey, this we got to come out with the introduction. We haven't done it yet. This is another episode of Big Talk about small business, and today we've got a really good topic, of course, we always you and I start talking about before we get in this room.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know and it's hard to save it because we're so excited about it how to find success in your first job.
Speaker 2:Hmm, it's a pretty easy work. It's a pretty easy work.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, I really think this is critical.
Speaker 2:I'm going to bust out some of these Sour Patch kids while we're talking. Is that okay?
Speaker 1:Okay, be my guest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they have an office right above us here.
Speaker 1:Do they really? Yeah, is that the brand? It's the brand. Is it a Sour Patch brand?
Speaker 2:Yeah, they, you know like owned by nestle or something I don't, I don't know, I don't know who actually owns them. I mean, I bet that tells you on the back I can't read.
Speaker 1:It says it's distributed by mandala's global monthly. Yeah, so their office is right above us. It's an engineered food and contains a bio-engineered food ingredient hey, I don't know, is that good?
Speaker 2:I can tell you it tastes great, it does it's fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's great. We're going to plug Sour Patch Kids. I love Sour Patch Kids. They're so good, they are. I love all that stuff. You know, not being a big drinker or anything, I've got to get my sugar some other way.
Speaker 2:You're the same way. I don big drinker or anything. I've got to get my sugar some other way. You're the same way. Yeah, I don't drink much at all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we get it through. The candy, all the other stuff, some of my favorite I love, like snow caps.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Do you like those? Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Those are so good Sugar babies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fantastic. All of it's so good. It's all good.
Speaker 1:I was in the McBride distributing box here at the Razorback game this weekend and they had Starburst in. There I was just shoveling those things in. I was like the only guy, you know, I'm the only one. They're all drinking their Anheuser-Busch products and you're just killing it.
Speaker 2:Because it has Starburst. Getting yourself into a sugar coma, just ruining your body, is great. Yeah, it's good stuff.
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Speaker 1:So, anyway, though, let's get it back. We don't need to talk about my horrible diet, which always comes up in these. Let's talk about how to find success in your first job. What advice do you give young people when you, I mean, you've got kids, they've got friends, you have young people working for you who are still students. What do you tell them?
Speaker 2:Man, I'll tell you, the first thing is to kind of wake up. This is really this is legitimately even talking to my kids. There is this overarching idea that there's a proper way to go into the workforce that we've been taught for so long and it's been patterned, you know, and I think that it's absolutely the most detrimental to people that want to be successful, because you think that you have to qualify your way up to being great or successful, that you have to what do you mean by that?
Speaker 2:like you have to follow a very specific process, mm-hmm, or that it takes an you know a significant amount of time, or right, or that you're you know. And then when you come in, like what are your expectations? Like what is a good job? That's one of the big problems number one. This expectation of what's a good job Well, a good job you know in a way that you're going to be successful in life is that you go work for a really good company and that really good company is a good company because they have benefits and they have all these, you know, they have insurance and 401ks and IRAs and all these types of things that they match and great health care plan great.
Speaker 1:Never thought about any of that in any job I ever had no, I haven't either okay. I'll be honest, I haven't either, and actually never even occurred to me. I never.
Speaker 2:I didn't even have health care until probably my mid-30s.
Speaker 1:Wow, Number one. I never went without it, ever Well like health insurance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I understand. I did not have a savings. I didn't have a dollar in savings until I was 45.
Speaker 1:Sure that doesn't shock me. Yeah, If you had any money, you're going to deploy? You're only going to live on what you need to and you're going to deploy the rest in a way that hopefully makes you money.
Speaker 2:That's right, yeah, so as a business owner, that's always one of my, you know.
Speaker 1:It's like you should have six months worth of operating capital or living or whatever Totally unrealistic. If I had six months worth of money sitting there, I'm going to deploy it in a way I make more money A hundred percent.
Speaker 2:And I think that if you're like and you don't have to be necessarily an entrepreneur, right, I think that like, but if you, but if you're reinvesting in yourself, you're advancing yourself, you keep, you know, like if you did make good money, like, can you invest that? And how do you improve and get better at your own career and your own career?
Speaker 2:path, whether that's learning going to more trade shows, you know whatever it is, that or more networking and more I mean like there's so much you can do or taking your money and and investing it in real estate or investing it in classic cars that go up in value or
Speaker 2:whatever, whatever you're into, yeah, just keep pouring in, yeah, but I think that a lot of folks that I have seen and my kids too this mentality that when you go to a job they owe you something, yeah, no, they don't owe you anything. Well, the problem is that they think that and then the company a lot of times thinks that they owe you and they weren't trying to, but, but that that kind of eliminates the whole success ambition and it disguises success into being. Successful is that you have a job that you show up to at nine and you leave at five and you take an hour lunch break and you get 45 minute break here and then there's a great culture and you can take PTO and you can take all a day and long extended paternity times and great health care plans and a good savings account. All these things wind up to be what a success looks like and all the you're going to cap yourself those are tethers in a way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what you're saying.
Speaker 1:They kind of hold you down.
Speaker 2:They hold you down instead of walking in with the mentality of like I don't care, success to me is an opportunity, right, and so if I go into this job as an opportunity, so if I go into this job is it an opportunity, can I see that this is where I want to invest? Myself into yeah, and not looking and expecting some payback, being that I get PTO or I get another salary raise. But how can I invest into that to where I can see myself growing and becoming successful?
Speaker 2:Sure, and so I think that that's a that's a stumbling block because, to be honest with you, well, here's the problem. I see a company like mine. That's that's a really startup phase. It's in an innovative space like you're, trailblazing right. If you want to be successful, this is the place to be sure I agree.
Speaker 1:You said it. I mean, you started out with sort of the conventional wisdom on what a good company is. To me, a good company is a growth company. Yes, Okay, the higher the growth rate, the better it is. And the reason for that is I'm going to get a chance to do jobs as an employee in that company. I'd never get if I worked somewhere else. Right, okay, why? Because the needs are expanding. All right, they can't pigeonhole me into doing one little micro thing. There's 10,000 different things. There's new things that are emerging every day that give me an opportunity as an employee to step up.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's it, and I'll say another thing to that.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 2:The visibility of value is instantaneous and recognizable, but not only your boss and your peers, but the community, the clients that you serve. Like I mean, if you try to do that at a bigger organization that you thought was a successful job being in a big company, you get put into the mix and you're in like this whole idea of being valued and feeling value. That's why a lot of like the younger generation don't? They have problems with fitting into that, because they don't feel that value, because it's hard to be recognized when you're in part of such a big group but a small. But they can't take the big group benefits and try to apply it to a startup where they can get a lot of recognition, a lot of value.
Speaker 1:They can see, well, and they're dealing with the owner directly a lot of times and the founder, the owner, is so much different than somebody who's a manager working for another manager working for another manager, working for another manager working for another manager. Okay, you're so insulated from the top people in the decision-making.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you. Here's a case in point. Let's take my company right now. If I have a team member that goes and brings success, to this company monetarily. I will directly reward that. Of course that goes and brings success to this company monetarily Right.
Speaker 1:I will directly reward that, of course. Why wouldn't you?
Speaker 2:And if they keep bringing it, I'll keep bringing it back. Sure, 100%. The problem is that's the cloud I'm talking about, Because I feel like a lot of the team in most circumstances that I've experienced in my life. They don't believe that because they think that they put. They put a governor is a good analogy they put a governor on themselves somewhere along the way that if you put, don't ever put out more than what you receive, yeah, that's not the way it goes. It's not, but I think that that's the problem.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know what that attitude manifests itself in this need for a quote. Job description Okay. Because, then I'll do what's in my job description, and if I do that, then I'm doing a great job, right, okay? Whereas we all know that's not a great job is going above and beyond, it's reaching out, it's taking on new things, it's solving problems that maybe weren't in your domain. That's right, okay, so I mean, I hate job descriptions. I'll be honest with you. I've worked with a lot of people, though, as employees who want job descriptions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, every one of them, all of them want them.
Speaker 1:I mean and you know I can see the side of it Well, you know, people need to know, like, what they're responsible for. But that's a minimum expectation for but that's a minimum expectation, that's not. That's not. The maximum expectation is fulfilling your job description at all. Your opportunity as an employee is going above and beyond that. I never really wanted to have a job description. I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 2:I don't like.
Speaker 1:You put me in a box. Exactly, I don't want to be put in a box. I've got a lot of. I can contribute to a lot of things, okay every time, anytime you talk to me, I'm contributing yeah, I mean I, at least I think I can. You know I'm trying to right. Do I not know anything about that? It's not going to stop me hell.
Speaker 2:No, I'm going to contribute but, but you know.
Speaker 1:So I think what you're saying, though it sort of all goes in concert. You know, defining a box, letting the strings of the benefits and the working hours and all that sort of sets up a lot of constraints, not investing more?
Speaker 1:not pouring more in yeah, unless you are being compensated for that investment, but you can't do that A lot of people listening to this maybe they're younger people they're like oh yeah, here again it's the man. Okay, the man wants to exploit me Right To get me to do things that I'm not getting paid for. It's like anything else, it's like a relationship. It's not all transactional.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:OK that's right, it's not I do this, you give me that it's. Maybe I extend myself to somebody as a friend, yeah, and help them out, and lo and behold, then we are friends and then they help me. Think about your boss and your employer, kind of the same way 100, isn't it?
Speaker 2:it's not a direct linear thing.
Speaker 1:No, who's gonna put out first? Right, okay, you know.
Speaker 2:no, it's 100, and I think and it's funny how fearful we are to do that I think that the fear is of being taken advantage of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's it. I think that's at the core of it, this fear I'll be exploited.
Speaker 2:Yes Again pop culture works against us.
Speaker 1:I mean, look at how bosses are portrayed in movies and TV shows. They're idiots. They expect people to do things that are completely unreasonable right, and then the employee rebels against that, or they conform or whatever, and they're unhappy. It's sort of how it's portrayed in culture. There's a natural suspicion that people have for their boss or their employer and it's unfortunate.
Speaker 2:I've worked around and near and with some extremely you know, some high up executives to senior level folks at some major companies yeah, you know, and I can tell you. There is one common thread that I've seen across all those folks they are relentlessly hard workers. Like they're all in, and so maybe there is a difference between those folks that are there in those higher positions and the folks that are not in those higher positions, because the ones that are not in the higher positions are not going to invest like those people have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's like Doug McMillan, for example. I mean you think Doug McMillan got to be CEO of Walmart by being a guy who defined how much he works? I guarantee you there's no possible way, Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:There's just no possible way. Now people could say, well, that's wrong. You know, well is it? I mean, look at how successful he's been, look at what he can do for his family, Look at what he can do for the community, look at all the ways they give back. I mean, you know all the jobs that depend on, all the jobs created by their success as a company, all the companies they help out, who are their suppliers I mean it just goes down the line every day yeah, it just goes to.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I mean, let's, let's go back to this though success in the first job. I I hear a lot of this. Of course, I've got students, and my students are generally juniors and seniors that are getting ready to graduate, and so I always tell them two things to start with. Okay, just to sort of step away from this for a minute, and it was kind of reinforced Last night I had Gary Head as a speaker and you know Gary, he's founder of Signature Bank and chairman he's been on the show before Been on the show and Gary understands that a great deal of his success was based on the relationships he had.
Speaker 1:Like he knew Sam Walton and he worked for Jim Walton and JB Hunt was his friend, and Don Tyson All these people that he knew, part of his network, and many, many, many more, are a big part of the reason why he was successful. Now he grew up in this area and he stayed here his whole life. Okay, so my point is when people ask me for my advice, the thing I say to them is think about where you want to live and go there. That's right, because the sooner you start establishing relationships there, the better off you're going to be. Okay, huge advantage.
Speaker 3:Huge advantage.
Speaker 1:Huge advantage. And then couple that with what industry you want to be a part of. Yeah, because it's the same thing there the relationships. They may be international, but you know, an industry is like a community in itself, right. So go where you want to live, get into the industry that you want to be part of. Don't worry so much about what your role is. 100% Get in there and start learning about that industry and see what things you can do.
Speaker 1:If you do that, I mean I never had to switch industries in my career. I mean I have later. I never had to, though. I've always had this primary thing, of course working with architects and engineers, all right. And so you know I was lucky, because every time you change industries, you step back. Every time you relocate, you step back, you lose a lot of network that could be beneficialers, lawyers, friends yeah, okay. So think that's what first thing I say is go where you want to live. I don't care how expensive it is, you'll survive there. When you got nothing, yeah, right, yeah, you'll figure out a way. Yeah, you know, I told a student of mine he's like I really like to be in la or whatever. I'm like, go there. Yeah, you know, find three other dudes and rent a shitty apartment excuse me and live cheap and do your thing in LA. Get established.
Speaker 2:Invest yourself into the place.
Speaker 1:Exactly. So you know. That's where I think it starts is the location and the industry. Now, what's it going to take to be successful? Then we start looking at what kind of you know we want to be in the industry, we want to be in this location. Now we look for the companies that are the high growth companies. I oftentimes advise my students to do things like get the local business journal lists out.
Speaker 1:Start looking at what companies they're talking about. Who are the best? Okay, that student. He wants to be a real estate agent. Who's the best real estate agent in Northwest Arkansas? There's a list put out by the Northwest Arkansas Business Journal. See if you can intern with them. Wouldn't you learn something from that? Yes, instead of like well, there's an internship listed in the career center to go to work for this firm. Now, they're 50th in the ranking of real estate firms in the area, but that's where the listing is. Forget that, bypass all that. So look for the growth organization. Now you're there. Okay, now what you're saying is work your ass off.
Speaker 2:Yeah invest yourself. Because here's what I would say. I remember in college I would work at the Jonesboro Sun and I worked at this other photo studio lab, yeah, and I worked for it for free. I went and I would. I've got on a regular schedule. I'd spend three or four hours a day there, sure, but I did it because I was wanting to learn exactly, get better. Yeah, you don't look that. I think one of the big problems I see is like oh, I can do that. How much am I gonna get paid for that? Yeah, that's not the point, I know, but I think that that's the looming problem with a lot of folks right is that I?
Speaker 2:agree and they block their own success because they're looking, they have taught themselves and they put this expectation on themselves that they're going to get taken advantage of if they work for free. No, you're taking. You are actually more than the driver's wheel.
Speaker 1:You're taking advantage of company yeah when you go in there and you learn yeah, they don't necessarily want to spend time with you. No, I mean, it's a hassle for them, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, I think that, like, I think there's also that conception too, misconception of where, if you're, if you're starting out in a job like the, the employer not only pays you money but they invest their time into you and resources. A lot of people have no perspective, like if I hire somebody and they come and work with me for a month or even six months and then they leave, that's a big cost.
Speaker 1:It is a huge, huge cost, sure, and they can't be lost.
Speaker 2:But if you don't have that respect or that awareness, like whenever, if I came to you for a job and I was like you said, I was going to stay here. I'm interested in your industry.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you're an industry veteran. Right and I'm going to learn from you Right, then I am going to invest my time and I'm going to soak it up. It's, you know, the, the, I think, one of the best things that that really tie this we don't do it anymore but our apprenticeships.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, I know.
Speaker 2:Like back in the day, that's what you did.
Speaker 1:You're absolutely right.
Speaker 2:We don't do that anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a shame, it really. Well, that's one of the things unions do. Actually, you know, people are like union construction, bad or whatever. They provide apprenticeships to people. So if I want to be a carpenter and I'm a union carpenter I've got to go through an apprenticeship where I get trained by somebody who actually knows what they're doing, and that is a valuable function. You're right, I mean. But again, I think you've hit the nail on the head and we didn't even talk about this before we got in this room. The distrust that exists, the I'm being exploited culture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the company's the bad person. Yes.
Speaker 1:They're evil, they're greedy, they want to exploit me and use me, and if that's your basic attitude, you're sunk yeah you won't be successful.
Speaker 2:You will not be successful Now that you say that, yeah, I have yet to meet, in all my entire career, anybody, anyone that's had that type of mentality, that has achieved any level of success more or less, has really found themselves in a stable scenario. Most of the times are like the ones that I have experienced, like that they don't last long in positions and jobs.
Speaker 1:That's true.
Speaker 2:They bounce around, they lose their network. They lose their network. They lose their connections. They think that they're doing the rest of their peers a favor, but they really don't. They're toxic, they're negative.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they just spread that around and they cannot shake it. And the older you get and as you and you don't check yourself on that, the less chances you're going to have a success, unless you have some sort of major revelation one day.
Speaker 1:You know it's interesting. This morning, when I was up early, I got on to glass door yeah because you know, I get these emails from glass door yeah, you ever look at that yeah, yeah, yeah for For like employee feedback.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's employee feedback on companies, but they have a really. There's all kinds of other stuff in there where people like put questions and then other people respond, and there was somebody on there who was talking about the fact that the company they worked for did not use the pronouns that they wanted for them. They wanted to be called they, them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay instead of he or she, and the boss doesn't do that, right, and that was a great sign of disrespect, and then it's a bad place to work. Right, okay, right, and you know I could say, okay, I understand that point of view, but truthfully I think that's BS.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, the boss might be an older person. Maybe they don't understand. You know the variations of gender on the scale, whatever it is okay. That doesn't mean they're a bad person.
Speaker 1:It doesn't mean they don't respect you as an individual. It's just not part of what they do. So what am I going to do? Completely judge them and say now it's not a good place to work because they don't call me they. Okay, that's. I think it's stupid. Yeah, okay, you're just cut yourself off now you have From an opportunity, because you can't get past that as an individual. Okay.
Speaker 2:You ever heard of the word, the term confirmation bias? Yeah, of course. Yeah, so it's pretty interesting when you become aware of that. Oh it's, it's a real problem, it's a big deal. I feel like that. What you're talking about is comfort, is having your right nation bias.
Speaker 1:It's like, oh, they're bad because they do that.
Speaker 2:People who do that are bad people, that a lot of times folks walk into companies looking, looking for how they're going to get screwed over, yeah. How they're going to be mistreated, yes.
Speaker 1:And that is so and then they find examples of it. Oh, 100% or they hear of somebody that has an example of it and then it's off to the races.
Speaker 2:I think what we're trying to say to folks here if you're listening to this show and you're wanting to be successful you're wanting to be successful you need to check yourself before you wreck yourself. What is your mentality, what is your vision, what are your, what's your purpose and your intent of when and where you're going to go work and why you're doing, why you're there? Because if you're going in and you already have a mentality that companies are to mostly screw people over, companies don't care about their people. Owners are super money-hungry, greedy folks. Yep, the managers and top-level managers got there because of some sort of favoritism.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're good ass-kissers. Good ass-kissers Not because they're good at what they do.
Speaker 2:They know somebody, whatever it might be, right, yeah, and you're walking in because you've been told that a good company will get you a 401k match plus paid time, holidays and all these other benefits. And if they don't have that, don't accept that, because there's something better for you out there.
Speaker 1:Oh, dude man.
Speaker 2:You're like painting a picture. I mean, if you walk into your professional life like that, here's the saddest thing about it, mark. I honestly, out of a lot of folks that I've met in my career, a lot of people have that mentality. I would say overwhelming majority of people come into work that mentality. The saddest thing is is that, I would say, the majority of those people don't realize that they even have that mentality I think you're right and they are therefore self-sabotaging themselves.
Speaker 1:My first boss out of grad school was a guy named Mike Lattice. He constantly had all these homilies and stories that he told over and over and over. You talk about a guy who was repetitive. Mike was probably the most repetitive person If I talk with anybody I work with in 1980, they'll start spouting these things back 45 years later.
Speaker 1:But Mike Lattice used to love to tell this story about somebody who's interviewing with a company and the interviewer asked that person like well, how did you like your last job? Or how did you like your last boss? Well, my last job sucked. You know, my boss was an S, you know, never really appreciated what I did, yada, yada, yada. And the manager's like you'll find that we're pretty much the same. Okay, yeah. Then somebody else comes in. How did you know tell, what did you like about your life? It was great. They were really nice people. They seemed like they cared about me, they they gave me an opportunity to do stuff that I I I wouldn't have gotten had I been somewhere else. And the manager says, well, you'll probably find this place.
Speaker 2:It's like that, exactly so it's, it's exactly what you're saying. Yeah, it's, because it's what you're bringing to the table.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you control this so much more than you realize.
Speaker 2:100% it's meant. When I look at a company, it is literally just I mean, maybe it took some time for me to see this, I guess the older I got. But you know, a company is nothing other than a bunch of people that are working together for a common goal, trying to achieve something right and if there's a broken link in any of that. It stalls progress.
Speaker 1:Of course it does. It's a team. You're only as good as the weakest teammate.
Speaker 2:And it's just like, it's so bad, like we're just like. But, if you can, in the most occasions on the you know there's only a few percentage of the people that are really driving and carrying the weight of this, this other negative perspectives.
Speaker 1:You know that's true. Now I'm not going to say you can't go to work for a bad company there are some out there that are bad places to work. Okay, so you got to make a change.
Speaker 2:And it was a lot different in the late 1880s, yeah, 1800s right, you got to make a change, okay, that's okay, it's dangerous.
Speaker 1:Or if you find that you're not, if you could have multiple experiences and you find that they don't meet your needs, or whatever, you can always start your own business. 100% Right, yeah, nobody's stopping you from that, if that's what you want to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you should be able to align yourself with what you said. I love that pathway. Where do you want to live? What industry do you want to be in? Look at the growing companies, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then put out, and then put out Without expectations.
Speaker 2:Without expectations, and then I out and then put out Without expectation Without expectations and then, I would say Immediate payoff, and another thing to that is like invest the time that it takes Like look.
Speaker 3:Of course.
Speaker 1:This isn't a microwave world right.
Speaker 2:The instant gratification doesn't come, like I know in my lifetime. It took a while for me to get to where I was even taken seriously when I meet with a client. More or less really getting paid well for it.
Speaker 3:Right, and I think we all started that way. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's just like the apprentice thing right A lot of people think that they can just step into a career.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because they have a degree or something. Oh yeah, oh yeah, okay. Well, I liken it to. It's the same thing, like go to class, do your work and get grades right. That's one way to do it. Or you could say I'm going to go listen to this guest speaker. I'm going to sit in on my buddy's class because he's talking about his professors. Really got you know something going on. I'm going to do these internships that I don't get paid for. Like I have one student. He sought me out as a freshman.
Speaker 1:I've never been my student. He's a senior now. He's had six internships with companies in different places in the country VCs, private equity banks All right, His experience now is fantastic.
Speaker 2:Did you connect me with? Did I meet him, just like recently? Did you connect me with him?
Speaker 1:I may have.
Speaker 2:I just met with somebody, that one of your students. Yeah, are you talking about big, tall guy?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's him, that's him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's him Hungry. He's hungry. I mean he is going to be very successful, but I'm just saying so, his experience. When he looks back on it, he could have somebody else that just they went to class, they got their degree, boom, his so far ahead.
Speaker 2:I got this degree. I'm old. This and this is what my professor said that I need to be making Right. This is the way the ship moves versus somebody like that. It reminds me when I was in college and I found the industry that I love that. It reminds me when I was in college and I found the industry that I love.
Speaker 1:Like dude, I just spent all my time in the dark room developing right images. Yeah, that's what you that was your passion.
Speaker 2:It was what I was doing, yeah, and then I was talking to the uh, to the lab technician. I was talking to the newspaper. You know, editors, I was talking to everyone, I was hungry, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then you integrated that with your interest in outdoor activities and you ended up with a magazine with photography and dealing with outdoor activities.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, I was just intrigued and I knew everybody in that college I had everybody knew who I was.
Speaker 2:I've invested myself Right, and you know, what's crazy is that you and I, some old-timers here, when we find somebody like that student you're just talking about, or we find somebody that works with us. I got quite a few of them here at my company, fortunately. I mean, it is the most rewarding, gratifying, encouraging thing that I can have is to have some of my teammates, my teammates that are hungry, that are pushing forward, and it's not just and it is not just about me getting paid, it's about seeing it gives me hope.
Speaker 1:Yes, gives me hope. See, that's the thing. Like I look at my students, so let's just say that guy's in the minority right, they're not all like that right most of them aren't. Some are, though, the few that are. They're not all like that Most of them aren't. Some are, though the few that are. That's what motivates me, okay, that's what gets me excited.
Speaker 2:You know why I'm motivated? It's because you know what. You have a high confidence that they're going to be what? Successful Exactly, and so, therefore, I don't want to invest my time into something that's unfruitful and unsuccessful. It is, but I'm happy. That's the what do you call it? That's the inertia, that's the virtuous cycle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Once you start demonstrating your desire for success, start pouring in success yes to you.
Speaker 1:They want to see you because the more that it's compounding interest of course it is, so let's talk about some other things that people could do to be successful in their first job well, let's.
Speaker 2:Can we go back to the job description thing, real quick, because I do have a point with that like I think that one of the one of the other big problems with job descriptions.
Speaker 2:I feel like that it's a, it's a, it is a written, formalized documentation and even legal, that can say that that wasn't my fault. Yeah, that's part of the problem. It's like, hey, look, this whole thing crashed down. It's like, hey, look, this whole thing crashed down. But my job description, as you can see, I did that and I went to my quarterly review and my boss said, according to what I was hired to do in my description, said I was doing a good job.
Speaker 2:So, therefore it's your fault, it's your fault and I had nothing to do with that problem, right? That is so non-successful mentality Like that, that is self-protection, that is isolation, I mean it's everything opposite of teamwork and camaraderie and you know tribal mentality of winning together.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:It's, you know it's bad. And so I think that if you're looking for a job and you want a really good job description, because somebody told you that's what you're supposed to do to be successful in some sort of class, or some peer told you that, be very cautious of that because really to your point, don't put me in a box I'm coming out to. I'm going to eat anything that I can.
Speaker 1:I'm going to help any way I can, any way that I can, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, so my title like really my title should be kind of my understanding of my minimal job description. If I'm hired into the sales right and. I'm a sales associate that I need to sell right, but I also need to take care of the customer. I also need to shoot more emails for marketing.
Speaker 1:I may be given the product people advice on what my customers are telling me they want, right, yeah?
Speaker 2:yeah, but the person is like it's not my job description, that's your problem parts people. I hear you they're not going to be successful.
Speaker 1:We're not talking about good people.
Speaker 2:We're not talking about you not making a living. We're talking about if you want to be successful.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that means you're accelerating at a faster rate. Yeah, let's take a look at a few other things. And again, at the risk of being repetitive, being responsive is so, so critical. So I work in a company where I'm one of the investors and I'm involved in a daily basis with it, and I have somebody who reports to me in my functional job there, who is extremely capable, technically, understands what we're trying to do as a company on a macro level, and yet does not respond promptly to emails or texts. That's not good. Huh it it. It's the most frustrating thing in the world. It may be the thing that makes me look for somebody else. To be honest, unless that can be addressed, because business had things move fast and if you're going to be a good business, you need to be responsive to everybody inside and outside the organization, and when you don't respond to me, that is disrespectful and it makes you a bad teammate because we're relying on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, it stumbles progress.
Speaker 1:Exactly so. Quick response to me it's like if you shift out on Friday and you don't look at your email all weekend, even though you're not quote paid to work on the weekend, you're not going to be on the fast track in my book. I'm sorry if that makes me sound horrible.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think it makes you sound horrible, I really am, or if you're on vacation, I'll say the same thing Shifting out completely, but I think that statement about the weekends, the vacations, is again some sort of social cloud and expectation that people have developed. That is not in the right, is not in the vein of success. There's a difference between being successful and having a job that you make your ends meet. It's not true, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I guess some people do, maybe Like I don't know who, I don't know of anybody, I don't know who they are.
Speaker 2:I mean maybe some like if you're an heir to some sort of fortune, but I mean like, but that's like so small and few in between. And, by the way, most of those folks don't really like like.
Speaker 1:I don't know how that they, a lot of them, end up superbly gratified or have. Yeah, no kidding I.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's true, they're not, and there's some that that take that response like we we've seen them around our area that that take that opportunity and turn it into something that's extremely contributing to everyone else.
Speaker 1:Well, the Lewis boys, fourth generation, I mean, believe me, I mean, matt Lewis Works like a dog. That dude is a driven dude. Yeah, okay, yeah, he made it happen.
Speaker 2:He does and he still and he contributes, right, and I mean it's such a huge deal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's only. I think like three or 4% of companies make it to the fourth generation family businesses.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The rest don't, but yeah. So being responsive, I think that's really critical. Another thing I do think is critical is learning to be a good communicator. Yeah Right, whether it's verbally or in writing, people judge you on that. Are you succinct, are you clear, or do you put out emails and everybody goes what the heck does this say? You've got to master these soft skills.
Speaker 2:I'm going to talk about that real quick. There is something really simple to that, and I've realized that a lot of folks don't practice this very simple technique, and maybe I learned it in journalism because I was in journalism school. Do you remember the.
Speaker 1:Gunning Fog Index, huh, where you'd run it on your writing and it would tell you what grade level it was, and we were supposed to write somewhere around the 8 or ninth grade level. Anyway. You could take any writing and analyzes it for, like how long are your sentences, how many syllables? Are, in your words, what did you call it gunning fog index?
Speaker 1:they taught us that fog index gfi in in journalism school oh, yeah, no no, I never heard of that anyway, I didn't mean to jump on you, but journalism does teach you to write succinctly as opposed to like english oh yeah, no, 100, totally different, I think.
Speaker 2:What it taught me, though, and maybe even english, is just reread what you wrote before you just freaking, sent it no, but it's so simple it is.
Speaker 2:It's the simplest thing in the world and I would, and I've trained to some some folks that would send me an email or copy me and include a client. And I'm like man, you need to reread. A simple read over what you just wrote would have prevented that ignorant mistake that now makes us look incompetent to a client that's trying to pay his money and makes you look incompetent as the author 100% Right, people judge you 100%.
Speaker 1:It's the moral as the author. 100% Right, people judge you. 100%. It's the moral of the story, based on how you write and how you communicate, okay, or if you just constantly misuse the language, yep, if people you know you may be extremely intelligent, but you don't come off that way, right right, and you know people are very judgmental. Let's face it. It's just the reality of it. It's just human nature.
Speaker 2:It is Like humans. We've been communicating since day one.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know that's like our fundamental.
Speaker 1:Grunt it. We gestured, but the way that you grunt and how you look when you grunt makes a big deal.
Speaker 2:Right, you, but the way that you grunt and how you look when you grunt makes a big deal, right, you know. But I mean, like we're always going to be that way and whenever you're in a meeting or you know, like knowing when to speak and when not to speak, and how to speak and what to say and how much to say and how much not to say, you know. All those things, like in all those communication things, are areas that you need to practice. That's a learned yes and ask questions.
Speaker 1:You know. I'm glad you brought that up because I think it's a great example. In my own experience I had some mentors who gave me feedback. Now, why did I have mentors? Because you were looking for them. I was looking for them and I demonstrated I was worth mentoring. I listened, I took their advice okay and tried to apply it. I mean, I can just remember the first board meetings I was in in the second no third company. I worked in post-grad school. I'd been out there for a while. Right, I had two other jobs, responsible jobs. I'm successful. The guy who was executive vice president of the company it's one of the larger shareholders. He, like I'll never forget we had a board meeting. Afterward he calls me in hey.
Speaker 3:Mark, you know.
Speaker 1:It's that everybody's gone. We're still there. Of course I'm putting my FaceTime in. I can admit it, all right, because it was important to them. He goes Mark, come on in, sit down, shut the door. If you ever do that again, I am so. It's so dumb, okay, that guy is going to hate you the way you treated him and work against you. Yeah, okay. And then after he rails, how's Sue doing Everybody?
Speaker 3:okay, you know what I mean. Have a good night. He gave me the honest feedback.
Speaker 1:I needed to change my communication style to not alienate somebody. Okay, which is a critical element in my ultimate success, or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 2:So the mentors are critical. Well, you did the same thing for me and a couple of things I can remember just off the top of my head when it comes to communication. Number one I remember one time I've given you something. When you're you're, you know my direct report. I gave you some financials about an event or something, or marketing plan, and you immediately was like, hey, redo this, don't you have to. You cannot center justified numbers on a spreadsheet. They, they all, must be right justified. And you're like, if you don't do that, it's confusing. I can't follow the numbers down. But ever since then I've always right justified and it's made all my communication skills from that time period when I communicate any kind of number or budget. It's made it so much better and more competent. I don't look like an idiot. And recently, not too long ago, I saw somebody do some standard justifications on their numbers and I'm like God what an?
Speaker 2:idiot, don't do that.
Speaker 1:The test results got to line up, dude, they got to line up.
Speaker 2:And the other thing was it's like we're writing marketing copy one time and you really taught me like the difference in in using bullet point like short sentences to articulate a point you know in in the marketing columns and I've taken that with me in every form of communication.
Speaker 3:I mean even emails or anything if I email it if I email it in a sec, sec.
Speaker 2:I know it'll be really short, to the point and you know what A 150 word email is about a hundred times harder than writing some long email.
Speaker 1:Oh, it is. Yeah, no question, being concise takes time. It really does. It's crazy. Do you remember, though, in journalism school, they taught us clarity and brevity. Do you remember that? Yeah, it was just pounded into what I mean, because I had went through journalism too, same as you. But I mean again back on mentors. I are, you know, and your mentor, maybe your direct supervisor, or maybe it's not, but the point everybody wants to have a mentor. I get called by students all that well, you mentor me, or whatever, but if they don't listen, yeah, then it doesn't. After a while, it's like it's not worth it. I'm not. I don't expect you to do every single thing. I tell you right, you know, some things aren't going to be like a strict order.
Speaker 2:It might just be if you thought about this, or this is a suggestion dude, speaking like you know this all falls back in line with, with, with, with being successful right, there has been lots of people that I have mentored or that are looking, and I mean there's certain folks I just won't even go have coffee with anymore because it's a complete waste of my time. Exactly Because they have demonstrated nothing other than victimization, negativity.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And they're like lost puppies in a world that's beaten them up and they're sad about it and they want to know my advice on how to get out of it. And I give them the same thing every time, but they don't listen. Order, they don't listen, they don't listen. And so I feel, like the people, that there has been one person I can't say that one, but there's one I remember that always sticks in my brain this guy. He took mentorship to its maximum. The dude would sit there, he would ask for a mentor meeting, he would listen to you, come prepared with questions Right, write down what you're saying, write down what you're saying. And he'd write down what you're saying, yeah, and I would, lo and behold, the dude would turn around the next day and be acting upon it and grow, and it was the most beautiful thing. It is, it's like you know, and I would hire him in a second Exactly.
Speaker 1:I mean it's like I can't. I've got students right and you know some of them reach out. Yeah, they want help or advice or input. And then I've got other people who aren't even my students, who seek me out. I last night I had, you know, one of the reasons why they have me over there at the walton college is I spend a lot of time with my students, and not just my students, other students who reach out. I had this guy. He came to our meeting. He had freaking like four pages of notes. I met him at our our walton college block party a couple weeks before. Yeah, he had four pages of questions. He's writing everything down. He's setting up follow-up meetings. I I'm giving him numbers and names of people to call. Okay, and it's like that guy. I know that guy's going to be successful. It's all I can say is I know that guy's going to be successful.
Speaker 2:And here's the thing, like we kind of mentioned it earlier. But if you find somebody like that and they're starting their career or whatever, you're going to reach out to your connections because you can entrust that that person is going to represent me well, exactly, I'm not going to waste their time and so that's the momentum of the success mentality. You're right, versus. Would you send somebody to me that's always talked to you about what it's like to have a really successful job at a big company making 175 000?
Speaker 1:when you start working having paid time off and you want to make sure you get all the benefits and all these things in place, like this or I want to be self employed because I really like golf and I want to spend all my time in the golf course, it's like no, it ain't gonna happen. So so, yeah, I think, know. And one other thing I think, when we're trying to, or two other things I just want to bring up, when it talks about, you know, when we talk about success in the first job, one of them is be on time. People who are not on time for meetings, showing up for work, whatever, repeatedly they're out. It's a bad, bad sign. Most of the time I get there early. Yeah, okay, 100%. I mean just yesterday again with the guy I told you about, he got there like 15 minutes early. I was there like 20 minutes early. Yeah, we're both early. Yeah, good sign, yeah.
Speaker 1:And the other thing is networking within the organization that you work in. You cannot just rely on your boss. That's right. You've got to have relationships with other people. Now there will be the negative people in the business or organization who say, oh, eric's just an ass kisser, brown noser, whatever. That's why he's over there talking to the boss's boss. That's stupid.
Speaker 2:That's stupid. It is stupid. And if I saw somebody, if I see a teammate that is rallying the rest of the team to drive to success with them, I mean, man, that's a beautiful thing right there.
Speaker 1:Right, but what if they don't report to you directly? You got somebody down in the ranks who works for one of your managers. Do you like send them away? No, you're going to talk to them, right? Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Everybody wants to be around positive, building things.
Speaker 1:Or they want to be around the negative, degrading things.
Speaker 2:yeah, and if somebody I'm, I'm in the business myself of building things and growing things and making positive outcomes, not in the business of neutrality or negativity, and I think that that's what any and every business leader has. I mean, even in major corporations, everybody's looking for rising stars. They want to be part of a rising star team, they want to be in the champion club, because they're usually champions themselves. And if you come walking in as a neutral, victimized or negative being, that's why you're not successful.
Speaker 1:So true, that's why you're not successful, so true. So hopefully, people will listen to us, hopefully, and take our advice. Yeah, okay, don't think we're just exploiter types, no, who only want to suck the life force out of people and spit them out in our to to further our own greedy goals. So far from the truth, agreed so well, great episode man time we got to wrap it up, buddy yep and uh, sour patches were great.
Speaker 1:Today coca-cola wonderful and the Aquafina. Aquafina is great. Hero's Coffee right next door, right next door To podcast videos, an amazing place. Every time I go in there it's a hub.
Speaker 2:The first person I'm gonna make a deal, the first person that emails us through our website, they get a free gift card to Heroes Coffee. Oh, isn't that nice.
Speaker 1:It is nice, all right, I just got a gift card from one of our prior guests. Yeah, that's nice. I mean, I can't believe it. He did that. It was very sweet, it was really nice. What a considerate guy. No wonder he's successful selling stuff. He's networking. You got it.
Speaker 3:All right. Great episode of Big Talk about Small Business. Thanks for tuning into this episode. Your questions answered on the show. Stay connected with us on LinkedIn at Big Talk About Small Business and be sure to head over to our website to read articles, browse episodes and ask questions about upcoming shows.