Big Talk About Small Business
Hosted by Mark Zweig and Eric Howerton. Our Mission is to inspire, empower, and equip entrepreneurs with the knowledge and insights they need to succeed in their ventures. Through engaging conversations with industry experts, seasoned entrepreneurs, and thought leaders, we aim to provide valuable strategies, actionable advice, and real-world experiences that will enable our listeners to navigate the challenges, seize the opportunities, and build thriving businesses.
Big Talk About Small Business
Ep. 108 - Stop Being the Victim
Tired of waiting for perfect conditions before you finally feel engaged at work? We get real about why that moment never comes and how to build momentum anyway. The core theme is simple and demanding: act like an owner, even when you’re an employee. Treat your role like a business with one customer, your manager, and focus on solving problems, not asking for special treatment. That shift isn’t about being exploited; it’s about stacking trust, earning opportunity, and compounding results that lift teams and careers.
We revisit a provocative “I never asked” essay and unpack how fairness and morale ripple through an organization. One-off privileges poison culture, while consistent standards and visible contributions raise the floor for everyone. We talk candidly about side hustles, integrity, and attention: if you’ve mentally checked out of your day job, either recommit long enough to prove your ceiling or exit cleanly and channel your best hours into your own thing. The real enemy is victim thinking. Business doesn’t tolerate passengers, and entrepreneurship exposes that truth fast.
Along the way, we push back on pop culture’s twin traps: fantasy and negativity. Retirement isn’t a bliss switch; purpose comes from work that engages your body and brain. Money won’t eliminate stress; it changes its shape. The goal isn’t comfort, it’s productive pressure that grows capacity. We share stories of leaders who stayed in the game through painful cash crunches and found unexpected tailwinds simply by continuing to solve problems. We also dig into the power of your circle: spend time with builders who leave you more focused than when you arrived.
If you want practical, unglamorous steps to move up, quantify your impact, report value regularly, go above and beyond without being asked, and obsess over customers like Sam Walton preached, this conversation is your playbook. Subscribe, share with a teammate who needs a push, and leave a review with the one behavior you’re changing this week.
You know what here's I'll give you one one sh good strong word for all of it. It's fantasy.
SPEAKER_04:Well, let's talk about that because this is another episode of that. Small businesses. Big talk about smallbusiness.com. That's right. Okay. Um so I know we're gonna talk about when good people don't get along today, but I also want to go back to this topic of what do we expect from people, okay? As managers. And I thought it was funny. Um I told you the other day I get, you know, I don't hear from Fred White, my old partner that often. Uh love the guy. I mean, absolute freak. One of the smartest people I've ever worked with in my entire life. Yeah. Okay. Anything I didn't do well, Fred did well. So that was like a perfect meshing. All right, of two people working together. Anyway, he sent me this article I wrote in '93. It was only the second year a paid subscription for the Zwag letter. It was called I Never Asked. This is in 1993. 1993. That's 32 years ago. He said he just sent it to somebody the other day. He's still sending it out. He still sending it. I totally forgot about this article. It did create kind of a stir when I sent it out. Really? Because a lot of people thought I was being very harsh. Because basically, in there I said, look, I never asked for a raise. I never asked for a special time off that I didn't have accumulated. Okay. I never asked for a new cell phone or a new laptop or any of those things.
SPEAKER_02:This is as your perspective as an employee working for somebody else.
SPEAKER_04:Right, exactly. And I said, you know, the the basic thrust of the article is, and and it wasn't just for employees, it was partners too. Like, I want a better company car what, you know, whatever. The point of it is if you're an employee, you don't want to create problems for your boss, you want to solve problems for them. Yes. All right. And I still maintain this idea that truthfully, a really good employee makes a good business owner on their own. You know why? They know how to satisfy the customer. That's it. Okay? Yeah. If you're, I've always said if you're employed, it's like you own your own business. Yeah. You just have one customer. Yeah. Or client. Your manager. Your manager. Yeah, that's it. You better please them. You better make their life easier, solve their problems. Don't just create one problem after another. Well, I want the special privilege. Now, if I give it to you, what am I going to say to all these other people?
SPEAKER_02:That's right. It's out here. Yeah. It's a multiplication effect. Yes. I can't do something for you as a manager without consideration towards everybody else that's within the organization. And how they're going to feel. And you know, the funny thing is, is a lot of times, like people don't really think about that. Like if I want something, I just what about my peers? Right. The people that I'm actually working alongside with. It's not about the company not doing things to hurt me. It's because there's a whole group of folks they got to consider.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. In every single decision. Yeah, the work hours are eight to five, but I want to come in at nine and leave at four. That's right. Okay. Why is that? Because that works better for me. Great. But how does it impact everybody else? Maybe they all want to come in at nine and leave at four, too. Right. Okay. Yeah. Now, if we let you do that, but we don't let them do that, what is that going to do to morale around it?
SPEAKER_02:It's going to it's going to weaken the morale. What happens when you have weakened morale in a company?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, productivity goes down. People don't get along, okay? They get discouraged. They're not motivated. And then what happens from that? Suffers.
SPEAKER_02:Business goes down. And what happens when business suffers? People don't get paid more. There's not raises. There doesn't grow. You don't get more resources. At all. Get laid off. Companies go bankrupt. Right. People get fired. Yes. All the bad things. We're like, we're like, it's it's a, you know, we are our own problems a lot of times. Of course we are.
SPEAKER_04:You know? I've always said that. I mean, most businesses, it the reason they go out of business is not because of the external environment. Okay. Yeah. Do we get pissed off? Does it hurt us with tariffs? Yeah, it's a pain in the ass. Does do regulations impact us? Yes. Sometimes they're they're a pain to deal with or whatever. Is the economy affect? Yeah, but don't tell me the economy is the reason you're going out of business when there's a hundred thousand other businesses like yours. Okay. Yeah. Eat their lunch because they're doing a crap job. All right. It's it's all the the the lack of dealing with what we need to deal with that kills us every time. Yeah. I'm not going to say I haven't ever been there. I have.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I know I've created my own problems before. Dude, I mean, okay. I'll be completely honest with you. I create my own damn problems all the time, every day. Exactly. Dude, I look in, I literally now I'm at the age I get up in the morning and I look at my own damn face in the mirror. The first yes, I do. And I talk to myself. And a lot of it is quit being a pansy ass. Yeah. Number one. Confront. Confront. Dude, you quit being weak, quit acting tired, quit feeling sorry for yourself. Yes. No one's here to save you. It's all your fault. You're responsible. You're accountable. Get off your butt. You have there's bigger reasons why you're doing what you're doing. Remember why those whys are. Yes. What those whys are. Remember the whys. Remember the why. Get your ass out there and do something and contribute to society and make a big impact. Yeah. That's my start. Exactly. That's a great. And it's a mirrored look. Like I have to face my own demon. I have to face my own demons. And I mean, not I mean, everybody should practice that a little bit. Yeah. If if my entire organization, if we woke up and looked at like that, why are we doing what we're doing? What baggage of crap am I about to bring into the office today? Yeah. Like, can you imagine if everybody was self-sufficient?
SPEAKER_04:I know.
SPEAKER_02:And that's cigar?
SPEAKER_04:The the thing is though, when we talk about stuff like this, or when we talk about the quote, I never asked mentality, okay?
SPEAKER_03:A lot of people think, oh, yeah. That's easy for you to say. You're the owner of the business. You're you're just exploiting people. Okay. You're just a typical exploiter of people. Yeah. No, we're trying to frickin' help your ass if you will friggin' listen.
SPEAKER_04:You want to be a business owner someday? Act like one as an employee. Okay?
SPEAKER_02:100%. 100%. I mean, it's just that simple. You have to drive, you have to contribute, you have to solve problems. You have to face it. Yeah. Right?
SPEAKER_04:It's your fault. Right. And you don't have to, and you can't just create problems over and over and expect other people to be like, oh, Eric's great. Yeah. Every day, Eric creates a new friggin' problem for me. Oh, I love Eric. Eric's wonderful. Let's promote him because he's asking.
SPEAKER_02:Okay? You know it's so funny. It's like it doesn't take much to rise above in this ecosystem. It doesn't. I can spot winners out really, really, really fast.
SPEAKER_04:And whether you're an employee or a business owner, it's the same thing.
SPEAKER_02:It's exactly the same thing. It's the same thing with friends and social networks. Of course it is. Like just take it, take all this business stuff out of the window. Yeah. You are who you're hanging out with. Yeah. No doubt about it. And your friend group, like, look at who's the one that's always got something to complain about? Who's the one that's always in need? I know. You know, if you have this friend that's always victimized and like it's never fair for them, all these things are just a constant negative freaking thing. And they're coming to you as a friend to lift them out. Wouldn't it be better to hang out with friends that are positive? And lifting you up. Lifting you up. And they're excelling and they're being opportunistic and they're fixing problems. They're maturing. They're growing. They're growing, you know, they're compounding.
SPEAKER_04:I said to somebody I want to be with. Exactly. I said to one of my students the other day who brought up, you know, that Eric was really great, you know, that we had in here. I thought he was the one of the best speakers we've had, or whatever. I said, every week when I spend time with Eric, I leave feeling better than I did before we get together. Same here. Always. Always. Okay. Yeah. So that's the kind of people you want to hang out with. They inspire you, they get you thinking, they motivate you. Okay. They encourage you. That's it. And you're absolutely right about that. But I mean, you know, back on the ones that always have the problems, it's like we have a friend who does work for us at our house. Okay. She's a nice girl. She's got a, you know, a million personal problems. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:All right. And, you know, she'll do whatever we need her to do. Like she goes and blows off the roof and cleans out the gutters and freaking polishes up our outdoor kitchen or just whatever needs to be done. Okay. She'll do it. She's a little workhorse. But at the same time, it's like, can I borrow 50 bucks? My cat's sick and I got to take it to the vet. It's just like, and the more you do that, the more you're going to get asked to do that. Okay. And then after that, it's like, well, when are you going to make that back up? Well, you know, I sent her a text and I haven't heard back from her in a week or whatever. Right. Okay. Now suddenly, otherwise, it's like, have you got any work for me to do? Have you got any work for me to do? Have you got any work for me to do? Because they're going to get paid. Now they got to work off the debt. Well, that's another matter, okay? I mean, I'm just saying, it's it's a it's a mentality, and there's no wonder why she doesn't have a regular job at this point, because let's take that let's take that example as a as a as an illustration here.
SPEAKER_02:So you just explained that side, which I would say is in my experience, most often the case with companies and and the dynamics of a team, right? That can I have this, can I have that, and I work when I'm only gonna work for what I need to, you know, when it you know. Yeah, when it works for me. It's this next it's this kind of this whole need, this need scenario. Right. What if you came home and you pulled in and she was like, hey, I did what you asked me to do, but I also spent extra time and did these things that I felt like that you needed to have done that you didn't even know. Would blow it away. What what would you would you pay her for that time? Of course I would. Would you be thankful for that? Yes. Would you would you refer her to other people? Of course. And if she did that day and day over and day over, and she's just like constantly just solving more problems without you having to ask her. She would get paid more. She would get paid more. You would invest more in her. I know. You would give her more business, of course. And she would come out of the hole that she's in.
SPEAKER_04:Right, I know. It's really the truth.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it's it's unfortunate. That's just such a good illustration. Like, that's the kind of people that I want that I that I am like dying. You want to help them. I'm God bless. I'm not, I want to invest in putting. I want to spend time with them. It's like, man, if I can say, I'm just literally, Mark, as an entrepreneur, I walk around with nothing but a bag ass full of problems. I feel like I understand. You know, it's like there's this dust bowl around me at all times. I get it. I need help. Yes. I'm paying for help. Yes. I grow the business so that I can get people to help me with all these problems. Because the bigger the bus, the bigger your clients get, the bigger the market gets. It's just bigger, bigger, and bigger, bigger problems.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and yeah, yeah, and a bigger company's got more resources. I mean, if it's just you, you're doing every single thing, right?
SPEAKER_02:Well, and you can't, there's not enough of you to the whole scalability of this is that you get more people on the team to solve more of the problems. That's this the whole economy to it. And every company, big, small, startup, doesn't matter. That's why people are paying hiring people to take care of these problems. Yes. But we've somehow gotten ourselves stuck in this mentality that that's not what it's about. I know. And if you if you would just if you could see that, yeah, like, okay, my my whole career and job, and the reason that I get paid is that I'm solving problems. And so that means that if I solve more problems and bigger problems, I get better compensation. I grow. I get better opportunities. Opportunities. Right. I get money. Yeah. And then I have money. And I can get bigger things and do, you know, secure my legacy and make investments and take care of my kids, my family. Make life a little easier. Right? It's there's not a secret to all right in their face. There isn't. And so to your point, like with your letter, you're like, you didn't ask for more things because you were focused on contributing as fast and as much as I could.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. And look where it got you, man. I got rewarded in the businesses I worked in. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And to do my own thing. And then you can take all that experience with you and all that recommendation and referrals and go out and do your own thing.
SPEAKER_04:My first clients were all my former employers. Yes. You've done it yourself. Yes. Okay. I mean, it's it's it's the truth. It is.
SPEAKER_02:I got most of my business from the get-go from my former employers. And you know this, like, I mean, with my case, right? You know, I've been through this, but I mean, like, in my companies, I've had really awesome people that have worked with me. Yeah. And they've decided to leave and go on to some other venture for any kind of reason. Right. It hurts to see them go. Sure, of course it does. The work's replaceable, but the person's not. And I hate to see them go. But I'm also pretty happy for them. And I expected it to happen. Yeah. Because they're so damn good. Of course. I mean, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And then what do I think? They got a breakthrough at some point. And at some point, you can't do more. That's right. Yeah, yeah. It's just a good opportunity. Like, and so what do you do? You support them when they do that. And it comes back to you. Of course. I mean, that's the other thing. It comes back around. Okay. Yes. Yes. And so what's your message then, Mark? Right. To any listener, especially an entrepreneur, right? That's at a company right now. They got a dream. They want to go out and do something. Right. But they're I've seen this happen way too much. That entrepreneur idea, I want to start a business, etc. This is. But they they are complacent with the current job they're at. And then they're moonlighting for their own thing. So they like shifted their contribution.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's bad. That's not a good thing. It's not. I mean, it, you know, I could sit there and build a case and say, yeah, it's great to start a side hustle that maybe that can turn into something. And maybe it could. But on the other hand, then if you're cheating your primary job, it may not really be a very good use of your time. Maybe you'd be better off to really focus on what you're doing, where you are. And if that's not if they're not recognizing that after a sufficient period of performing, first, mind you, then you go find a new place to do it. Okay. Because there are companies that don't really recognize and appreciate people. Sure. I mean, there's no question about it, you know, or managers that don't. So if that's the case, if that's the environment you're in, then then at some point you've but you've got to give it a chance.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Okay. It's going to take time. It's going to take you doing stuff, and it's going to take time for them to react to it. Okay. And if you don't give it any time, then that's not really a fair situation.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And you get even like in the I'd say, like, I mean, I think this is actually kind of a good topic because I know a lot of folks are in this. If you're in a professional role with expectations to contribute heavily, because and how do you identify that? Look at your compensation. If you're getting paid good money, then you're expected to contribute significantly. Right. But I don't I think that a lot of people completely dismiss that. I'm telling you, like I see it all the time. They dismiss that payroll. Quantify what you're doing.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, if you have to for the con for your bosses, always quantify what you got done and the value of it and send them a report once a month. Yeah, but I mean I've had people that work for me that did that. I'm like, what do you think when they do that? I'm like, wow, I'm blown away. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:It's not that big of a deal, neither is it. No. But I mean, these folks could be getting compensated real well, but their br their all their enthusiasm and motivation and desire and vision is in this other side hustle that they have. Well, they've shifted out. They've shifted out. That's not a great scenario. Like what I would do if I was, and I have done this in my position. When I was first an entrepreneur, I was working for the newspaper as a photographer. Yeah. And I had an idea to start a magazine. Right. Well, I became very much more bullish and ambitious about my magazine than I was about being a really great newspaper photographer. Sure. So what did I do? Homeboy went to his boss, recognizing I wasn't contributing as much value as I should in the future. Like, listen, man, I'm starting my own magazine. He's like, You're doing what? I'm like, yeah. And I was like, so I'm putting it in my two weeks' notice. Uh-huh. What are you going to do for money? I'm going to go work at the Olive Garden and wait tables in the nighttime. Yeah. So I can do my idea and business during the day and go into my suffer mode, but at least I know like it's going to, it's not about being happy. It's about being focused. It's about contributing. It's like, where are you investing my time? Right. You're putting your prime time into your thing. Exactly. The other thing's just a way to make money. Because guess what? The Olive Garden's just paying me to take care of these customers from 5 p.m. to 9 p.m. Right. And then I'm out the door. Nobody expects anything else. Right. I'm not trying to improve my trade. You know, like, I mean, there's this expectation. Yeah, that's the right role if you're going to do your own thing. Exactly. Yeah, that's my point. Because if you're in a professional role getting paid good money, you want more engagement than that. You want full attention and focus. And let me tell you what the real collateral damage is. Yes, you are in essence stealing from that company that you're working with because you're not contributing the way that you're being contributed.
SPEAKER_04:You're not giving it the full.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. But you know what you're doing more of than anything? What's that? You're taking a job away from somebody else that could really want to come in and contribute and build their career. Oh, yeah. That's where the dude, when I got when we got bought. You know, in Spider-Land. And I had my two year. Yeah. When I came in after my two year was up, I recognized real quick that, you know, there's changes going on. I couldn't find like what it was really quick to me go, I don't understand how I'm contributing around here. There was no discussion about me being exited. I mean, I think that I still had some value to it. Yeah. But I was like, I don't feel this. Like, and I don't know where the road is. Like, it might take six months. Like, that's not fair. There's other people out in this community, and then for this company, that they can find immediate value, and this company is going to be valued by my participation. Right. And I don't I and even though I knew that the company, the company probably could have kept going. Sure. And I could have just sat there and hung out in a really cushion position. Right. But that's not fair to the company. I've been there before myself. I totally understand that. Do you have a responsibility as a human being and a contributing worker and a value bringer? Right. Like and you just said you've been there. And it's not right for you to take money. Yeah. Even if the company isn't aware of you contributing, they might be completely phony. But it's not right.
SPEAKER_04:You know, I saw on a tangential topic here. I saw a little interesting little video online today. It was by a physician whose primary patient base is elderly patients. And he said that they fit into two pots. And there's like, he goes, there's a super, super clear delineation of those who come in, they're energized, they bounce up on the table, they have all their wits about them, they're physically healthier. Uh, you know, everything about them is different from the other pod. And you know what the distinction is? The ones that are still working are the ones that are sharp. And the whole premise of the thing is whoever came up with this idea, we want to retire as young as possible to have quality of life, is it's opposite of that. It is the exact opposite of that.
SPEAKER_02:I was literally la yesterday driving thinking about this. There's two there's actually two components to it, right? That I'm seeing you gotta keep the body moving, yeah, and you gotta keep the brain moving. Right. That's your two summary to a fulfilled contributing life, right? Healthy. Healthy, yeah. Because it's not like you can keep your body moving, but you're not learning. But in brain moving is learning, yes, communicating, exactly, contributing, and they go hand in hand.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, they really do. So it kind of goes along though with what you're saying. It's like if you're there and you're not useful, you know you're not contributing what you're really should be. Yes. Then in effect, you've you've you've sort of quasi-retired. You know, they call it uh some call it quiet quitting, but let's say it's people like us who are still with the company that we sold or whatever. You're not contributing at the level that you really should be. Yeah. And therefore, in a way, you're on the path of death.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Yeah, exactly. Because what happens, like you you start walking in and you're like, why am I here? What am I doing? I'm not why don't I give more than I do? Yeah, and and and am I just tired all the time? Is my health declining because I'm I just feel tired? Well, you know, because because you're not because you're not motivated. You're not you don't have a purpose.
SPEAKER_04:You know, I work for a university, okay? It's a state university, right? You could say it's a government agency, you know, everybody there is lazy doing the least that they have to do. Not the case. Not the case at all. Yeah, we have plenty of people who are highly motivated. And it's not even because we get paid, like it doesn't matter what I do really, unless I'm really bad, that I would get thrown out. Yeah. But if I'm really, really good versus just mediocre, I'm probably not gonna get paid much more at all. Yeah. Okay, maybe like 1% more or two, you know, whatever. But there's still people, in spite of that, who are highly energized, highly motivated, give it their all, okay? And because that's best for them, and it's best to fulfill their mission of helping people. And you know, I really I love that. I mean, I think it's it's fantastic. Um it's just it just has good people who just want to do the right thing. And I work with a lot of people like that. And it, you know, I people sometimes have a really, I think a misconception about um like academia and how hard people work. I mean, your parent, you know, your dad was in it.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, yeah, he's really passionate. I mean, like just the educational aspect, about teaching others, fulfilling his mission. That's right.
SPEAKER_04:Even though, like, financially, you know, he's gonna be in a system that's gonna restrict what he's gonna be able to do. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02:It's not a glass ceiling, yeah. It's a brick one.
SPEAKER_04:So even if even if it's not for the financial rewards, it's because it's the best thing for you to do as an individual. Yes, to commit yourself and be useful.
SPEAKER_02:You feel like you're you're you're you have a per it comes down to your purpose. Yes, it does. If you feel purposeful, and if you if you're walking in, then you're you're not counting your hours. That's what I that's what drives me nuts. Is like, man, I'm telling you, I've dealt with so many people that get in, you know, like they get in these jobs and they're just like they're miserable. Yeah. I worked ten and a half hours yesterday or whatever. I don't know how many hours I worked. Or they're like, hey, I'm getting paid really good money, but I really don't, I'll only really work about 30 minutes a day. Yeah. It's like and then and they're like, they're okay with that. Yeah. But at the same time, they're utterly depressed. Right. And they're asking for psychological, emotional like.
SPEAKER_04:Like we said in the last uh uh podcast here, right? 70 some odd percent stay because of the psychological support services they get.
SPEAKER_02:They're like they're they're needing, they're they're like needing these fundamental life things and they're confused. And it's just like, and it here's the worst part, Mark, is it's not like this is a three-month problem. It turns into a two. I've seen people in three to four years stuck in the same position, turns into a literature problem.
SPEAKER_04:In some cases, the lifetime problem.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah, can't yes, yeah. I've seen that happen.
SPEAKER_04:I know, yeah, they are depressed. They are miserable. You know, it's really funny. I had um as a guest speaker this week in my class, um, my friend Paul Stagg on Monday night. Paul owns the splash car wash oil change operations. Yeah. 20 locations for the car wash, 10 locations for the oil change. Okay. He's just about to turn 70 years old. He owns 100% of it. Dang. He gets called every week, multiple times a week. It's owner-operator. These aren't franchises. Not franchises. He owns 100% of it, okay? Wow. And it it's and the point is this that though, he gets calls every single week from private equity because they're buying up car washes like crazy. He could sell this for tens of millions of dollars. But he said, if I had 50 million dollars in cash in the bank right now, what would I do differently? Yeah. Nothing. Yeah. He goes, I got what I need, okay. I can fly first class when I go somewhere. I can like go to the grocery store, not think about like how we're spending our money, okay, because I got a decent house or whatever. Yeah. Because I've got everything I need. Why would I give up what I love, which is coming to work and helping people and delighting our customers and creating good jobs for our 400 employees here. Why would I give that up? Okay. He's wise, man. Just so I have this money in the bank that's not gonna change anything in my life.
SPEAKER_02:Because you know the money is not gonna make you happy. You're not gonna buy something that's gonna make you gratified.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. And in fact, he goes, as soon as I do that, then the buyer's not gonna even practice our core values that we have here, which is the whole point of our existence. So that goes away, okay. I mean That's good. It is that I find that inspiration. I do too. Now he doesn't want to be the CEO forever. He's turning the reins over to his son here shortly, okay, which is fine, but he's gonna still stay involved with the business every day doing what he does.
SPEAKER_02:Because the business has a purpose in and itself, exactly, and he's finding his purpose, his purpose is entwined in that purpose, find improving people's lives. That's basically what he's all about, okay? Yeah, man, I'm telling you, like getting a bunch of money and sitting on the beach for the rest of your life, it sounds like a really good idea, but that but you'll find a lot of people that can make it to that, they don't want that. It's less stressful though, right?
SPEAKER_04:That's what I mean, that's what they think. Yeah. But a certain amount of stress is actually corner for you. We're designed for stress. Yeah, we are. We're not gonna grow unless we got some stress.
SPEAKER_02:I went to I had a psychologist a while back, the counselor, right? He was he was pH, you know, he's a licensed psych uh psychologist.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:About a decade ago, and he gave me this great perspective about just how our brain is operating, the stressors and stuff like that. And he was talking about look, he goes, Look, you have to realize you're as a human being, you're designed with these adrenal glands. Yeah, right. Think about back in the cave days in the beginning of the Existence. Right. Like you're not designed to be stress-free. Like back in the day, you were looking out for freaking snakes and people club you over the head.
SPEAKER_04:People trying to take your food or whatever.
SPEAKER_02:Natural disasters, saber-toothed tigers. Like, bring it on. All of it. If you just put yourself in nature, if you go into nature, like you're vulnerable. You have to be alert. Look at a deer. I watch deer all the time. I'm a hunt problem.
SPEAKER_04:I got so many of them at my house. I wish you'd come and kill some of them.
SPEAKER_02:But anyway, if you watch them doe or buck, doesn't matter. They come out, first of all, if they're coming out to eat something, they stay in the brush. Yeah, they look around. They look around. Yeah, of course. For a while. Yeah. And then they just walk out, and you're like, as a human, you're like, damn, they just magically appeared out of nowhere. No, they've been actually in there. Thank God you didn't move, or else they would have never come out. Like you probably, there's thousands of deer around you. Right. You just don't see them because you moved around and you messed up. When they do come out, you notice they come out and they'll go down to eat and they'll raise their head up real quick and watch. And then if you if there's something off, they'll actually try to fake you out. They'll put their head down, act like they're about to eat, and they'll look up again, trying to bust you, right? But their senses are constantly on, looking to be because they're under threat. Sure. Those deer, and I've thought I've sat there, I've sat in a deer scene and I've thought about this. I'm like, I've had a stressful day, week, whatever. Whoa, poor me. But then I'll go, what about this deer? He never gets a break, right?
unknown:Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:That's exactly right. This deer is under a thousand times more stress than I am in one week than I am in my entire life. Like, but that's true. Yeah. So does that mean that we're not like so? We have to be real. Like, we are designed to handle these things. I know.
SPEAKER_04:Right? Well, it's it's just like anything. It's like a muscle. If you don't use it, you don't test it, it's gonna get weaker. Yes. Right? Yeah. It just atrophies. What do you think?
SPEAKER_02:It atrophies. So to this point on this deer, right? What would you think that it would happen if the deer started going, I don't want to deal with the stress anymore.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Like I'm just somebody shoot it, somebody's gonna eat it, somebody's gonna run over it.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, like if they could make that decision, they're like, I'm just they're getting they like I I don't deserve to be under the stress. There's gotta be a better life. Like, even if they didn't quit, but they started wanting something else, like a null stress deer life, that freaking deer would be so depressed because guess what? There is no such thing. Yeah, there is no other reality to this. I know. Like you, sorry, the laws of physics and universe and whatever you want to call it. No, you're right. You don't have there is no reality. And so I think that what we've done is we've we've designed and fabricated and imagined, probably through movies and music and God, don't get me going on that. That there is this life out there that's peaceful and healthy.
SPEAKER_05:Pop cultex.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah and all you know pop culture has it really creates unrealistic expectations all around. I mean, I've just been more and more conscious of that. Like buying and selling companies, okay? If your company gets acquired and you're an employee, what does pop culture tell you is gonna happen? It's gonna be terrible. No, no, in no movie or TV show ever does a company sell and it's better afterward. It's always bad. They come in, they got bad people, they fire everybody, they don't really understand it, whatever. Okay. So that becomes the expectation. All right? And it's the same thing. Retirement, oh, that's great. It's like the old man and his wife, they live over there in the house, and their garden is perfectly maintained, and everything they have is beautiful, and their kids come over and it's a Hallmark movie, and everybody gets old and is happy together forever and ever and ever. Okay. That doesn't happen either. Never, right? Never. I mean, it's like instead, it more likely is like the guy retires and then four weeks later he dies. You know, that that happened to to uh my my uh brother's father-in-law like four or five weeks or six weeks after he retired from Monsanto Corporation as the head of RD dead 68, 69, whatever he was, okay? Yeah, you know, but I mean this this pop culture creates a lot of really bad sort of views, yes, expectations. Expectations. They're just unrealistic.
SPEAKER_02:You know, what here's I'll give you one one good strong word for all of it. It's fantasy. Yeah, it's fantasy. There is no such thing, there is no 100% purely great marriage. There is no 100% great health and you feel good every day, all day, and your energy levels up. There is no like bucket of money that's gonna make you happy and take care of your problems. Actually, when you have more money, you have more problems, big and small is dead on, man. Right. Right? The rapper. I mean, all this stuff, like there is no perfect job. There is no life with kids that's gonna be because but you have kids. If you have kids, you worry about them kids all the time.
SPEAKER_04:Of course. But you know what? At the same time, as there are some things that are portrayed in a utopian way in pop culture. A lot of it is negative. Oh, yeah. I just want to go back to that. Where do you see, how often do you see in movies or TV shows where the boss is a really great person who is really helpful? Yeah, that's trying really hard, that's working really hard to do things, and yeah. Yeah, I mean, think about what was the one with the guy who was the the quote football slash soccer coach who went to England, you know, he was a football coach and then he went over to England and became Is this a movie? No, it's a TV series uh show. It was very popular. Anyway, it's a great show where he's a really good manager and he cares about people. He's very thoughtful. I've never even heard of that show. Yeah, I I can't believe I forgot the name of it. But anyway, um it's rare. Normally the boss is a jerk. Yeah, they expect you to come in on the weekend and they abuse you and they don't want to give you a raise. Nine to five, right? Yeah. We're gonna nine to five. You know, so all the negativity of popcorn. So then what does that do? Then that creates the expectation of your employees that, oh, my employer's just here to exploit me.
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SPEAKER_02:We have in most of all the pop culture in the media, and in social media included, all communication, the fantasy, and then the negativity. And that's what everyone is consuming. Yep. That is to me like the biggest awareness that I have. And and and I I am personally, none of us are, but I've recognized of how I am not immune to all that influence.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Like it is literally like a like you're just being washed around in the waves, man. Like I'm I I I get my head, like my morning routine I say about, talk myself in the mirror. Yeah, I'm freaking good. And then some shit happens. I get an email and I'm I'm receiving someone else's negativity. Yeah, or I see something on social and I get a little jelly and have some FOMO about some other company. I had it, you know, especially with all this AI stuff. Of course. Freaking Sam Alton freaking constants$500 billion and he's but created this objective, you know, and you're like, oh fear. It's just this fear and fear and this fantasizing and this expectation. And the whole time, Sam Alton doesn't know what the hell he's doing either. No one knows what the hell they're doing. Everybody's under the same realm of stressors. We're all deer in the world being hunted, and there's only so you know what I'm saying? But everyone has we have to work, and you're working and you stay focused on this. Well, this is the key to success in the business.
SPEAKER_04:Um, it was Ted Lasso, by the way, is the show. You've heard about that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you've heard about that.
SPEAKER_04:Great show, by the way. I mean, uh, there's so many management lessons in that show, I can't believe it. I like shows that make me feel good when I watch them. Yeah, I agreed. Most don't. Okay. Um, but yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, I think for business people, you've got to be committed. You've got to be committed to your purpose of why you're doing what you're doing.
SPEAKER_02:It is 100%, yes, and there's not anybody out there that's gonna help you stay focused on that. Well, the only one might be is if you hang out with the right people, as you said. Very, fair. And if like you encourage me as a fellow entrepreneur, when again, back to the wave scenario, right? My the wave might have taken me over here, and here I'm over power, you know, I'm I'm pooping in my my own place, right? Yeah. But you come in and you're on strong. Right. And you're talking about your business and how you're overcoming and how you're driving through this. Right. And I'm like, that reminds me, oh yeah, that's that's that's where I'm supposed to be. Yeah. Bling, the light bulb comes up. I get what am I doing in this shithole?
SPEAKER_04:I get the same response out of you.
SPEAKER_02:It's exactly the same thing. That's why you like you, if you're around these, you've got to be around those positive influences and people that are pushing and going forward, recognizing the real environment, not a fantasy land of never gonna never gonna meet those expectations. Right. You're never gonna meet them. They don't exist because it's a fantasy, yeah, to the opposite spectrum of negativity. Yeah. Because and the people are negative because they're going for a fantasy. Right. Like there's a gap between reality. It's a really big gap. Right. It's a huge one. And so therefore, I'm gonna be negative towards this company or this person because they're not meeting this fantasy that I think exists. No, you're right. Like if you're really right. Hey man, I've got some folks that are really eager to be entrepreneurs. Like they got a dot and you know, they got an idea. Yeah. You know, and they want to do it, they're competent and capable about a certain thing. If they don't, the bloodbath that's in front of them, they're not ready for that. They actually have no idea. Because they've been, you know, that they've been basically have been complacent and they might be in this state of depression. They can't even see it. And their way out is this fantasy. Mark Zuckerberg, hero moment. Yeah, oh God, I know. You know, I would I would never want to be Mark Zuckerberg. I can't imagine the shit that he has to deal with. It would be horrible.
SPEAKER_04:You couldn't even go out in public, it couldn't do anything. Exactly. What about that? It's like you're an absolute prisoner of your life of your celebrity status. 100%, bro. And you're rich. And so everybody they only talk to you because they want money. Yeah, exactly. They want you to say that. Yeah, nobody's really gonna be your quote friend. No one's your friend. They've only wants shit. And you God, I'd be afraid to get married. I'd be afraid to do anything. Yeah, it's you can't go back to your hometown, bro. No, it's true. It really is.
SPEAKER_02:Like, how miserable would that be?
SPEAKER_04:It's yeah, I don't think people think about that. They they really don't. Well, it's you know, I I think, you know, just like you're saying the bloodbath. I mean, again, I'll go back to Paul Stagg, who was talking the other night. So at one point, and this isn't like all that long ago, he had two car washes, you know, that were tunnel car washes, and he said they both were losing money. He lost like$400,000, okay? And he's down to his last$50,000 that personally have to kick in. All right. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:His own cash.
SPEAKER_04:He's his own cash, but it's like, well, what choice do you have? Okay. Because it's not like you can just shut down. All right. And you just zero percent. I mean, like no return. You owe money, okay? It you can't just shut down. You've got to to to stay in the game. Now he pulled it off, he figured out what the problem was, he solved it. But I mean, it was down to that wire, though, okay? And not as a young guy. How what I mean, how long ago was I don't know. This is maybe 10 or 15 years ago. Yeah. You know, hell he's 70 now, so what if he was 55 or 60? You know what I mean? It would suck, yeah. But he still pulled it all off, all right. And he's willing to put his last bit of money in there if he had to. He's got to go to the wife and say, you know what, honey, this this retirement fund, this this little bit that's left in it, you know, we're gonna have to kick that in, all right? Yeah. But again, being fully engaged, yeah. Not giving up, not throwing the tall in, being positive, thinking about what good things can happen. He said something else I thought was very interesting. He goes, you know, sometimes in business there's things that have bad things happen to you that have absolutely nothing to do necessarily with what you did. They just happen. Okay, they're out there in the external world. They're gonna happen. Yeah. But he said at the same time, good things happen that maybe you didn't necessarily deserve or didn't generate. 100% because you're you're out there in the game. Okay. See, it can go the other way too.
SPEAKER_02:100%, man.
SPEAKER_04:You know?
SPEAKER_02:I think that that's perfect. That's like it's a very it's just a when you can objectively look at this like and you understand that, like it's it's sustaining, you know. I mean, like uh you to you can't be an entrepreneur and play the victim. No. You can't be a victim, it's just not tolerated. Mark, that's a good, that's a good difference between again. I I obviously I often empathize with people that are in a professional corporate environment that are wanting to get on their own. Because I've just heard that story probably most of the occasions. Well, you deal with so many of those people in businesses. And that transition, and they're they're asking how do they get over the line, but I mean, like in a typical major corporate scenario, you can, like we've been talking a lot, you can be victim. You can have a victim mentality, sure, or you can thrive, right? But you can be a victim for 20, 30, 40 years. Yes, absolutely. And and you're and you're still getting paid for it. I know. Here's the equalizer. You go into entrepreneurship, there's no tolerance for victimization. No, there isn't. It will murder you, it'll hammer you down fast. Boom. You tell them that story. I mean, like, that's that's because a lot of those folks are gonna expect a lot of just good things, you know, or they're not expecting that the bad things are just that's just the ecosystem, that's the environment, that's the that's just what the way the world works. The world, yeah. And there's no one to blame but you.
SPEAKER_04:No.
SPEAKER_02:Actually, there's no one to blame ever but you. It doesn't matter where you work and what you do. Right. It's all about your response to everything that happens. It is always, but you're sheltered over here, yeah, under a very giving corporation which doesn't ever get the credit it deserves. Oh, I know. Right? Ever because of the negativity, but you get into entrepreneurship, you there's zero, zero tolerance for victimization. Zero tolerance. I get it. I've done victimization, yeah, and it's just a hole of hell.
SPEAKER_04:I, you know, I've got friends who are business owners who some of them we were talking about, where they act like victims. They're very depressed, and it's very apparent. How can you inspire your people if you're that depressed? You can't. It's catastrophic, man. It it just it's it's just like a like a disease. It just it just goes from one person to the other. It's it you've got to to somehow keep yourself up and believing you that you can do it.
SPEAKER_02:You have to, you know? You will be murdered. You'll be you know what you'll be the doe that's decided that they're a victim. That's it.
SPEAKER_04:They're gonna stand out in the middle of the road, dude. Yeah. I see them every single day. There's a this road by my house where it's like I come home from school at like between 8 45 and 9. Okay, and you know how that is. That's like the ideal time for the deer to be when it's, you know, or this time of the year, right? And they're just like standing out in the road. And it's like, I got I better slow down at 20 miles an hour because I might run into one of these. Do you think those deer have given up? Do you think maybe they have? They're just gonna be. They're just hoping somebody comes along with a giant F 350 like you drive and and puts them out of their 450 spacemaker. Yeah, I beg 450. I'm sorry, Dr. Sell. I can't yeah, I can't drop the G. Okay. Well, the 450 and and and gets them over with quickly because it's big enough to annihilate them. But no.
SPEAKER_02:They're standing out there wishing that cars wouldn't come like they don't, they shouldn't have to deal with potentially being killed. Yeah. Because they don't deserve that. They're living in a fantasy world.
SPEAKER_05:That's true.
SPEAKER_04:They're living living in a world. They're living in a fantasy world. Well, yeah. I mean, uh, so uh, you know, the other thing, speaking of people in corporate America, though, I did see the other day in Matt Baller's um class um that um he teaches on leadership with Adam Stovron. Which is a fantastic class he's got. That Adam and and Matt have um for the MBA class, and they had somebody in there from Walmart who's now a like a senior vice president and involved in the um you know the supply chain there, who started as a warehouse person. All right, and he's risen all the way up after 25 years of Walmart. It's championship, man. That's true. I admire it. That's just champion. I mean, yeah, it's a different world than we're in, but that guy obviously did what he took needed to do. I don't think you probably want more time off throughout the entire process. Yeah. And that he was sitting around going, what's in it for me? I'll work harder if you pay me more. Okay. I mean, it's you know, a lot of times, I mean, we do say that the skills it takes to succeed in corporate America in some ways are different from the skills it takes to survive in small business and entrepreneurship, right? No, I agree. But in other ways, they're not. Very true. You know, it it's it's it's knowing who your customer is and being able to please them and being able to perform uh such that you get paid to do the job.
SPEAKER_02:I always that's what I always appreciate about Sam Walton. He drove everybody to remember the customer. Oh, yeah. Customer, customer, customer. If you just focus on that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, a lot of companies say that, but they don't really mean that. Right. They're like, well, the customer, if it we make money on them on every job at every sale, okay. Or the customer, as long as they're not too big of a pain in the ass. If they are, we'll cast them aside or you know, whatever. I have a lunch meeting, Mark.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, well I mean, we spent an hour bitching. Not totally bitching. You don't think? No.
SPEAKER_04:Maybe I was. It's it's not all bitching. We're trying to help people get into the right mindset so they can be successful out there in business.
SPEAKER_02:No, that's true. It takes realistic expectations. I forgot my why. Why are we doing this? But you're right. That it I mean, because this is the reality. This is what it you know, don't be surprised. We're trying not to have we're trying to eliminate a lot of the surprises. Yes.
SPEAKER_04:If we can do that, maybe people will stick through it. Yeah. And go through those down times that are inevitable. Because it ain't easy. And power their way out the other side. That's right. And we need more of that. Yes, we do. We need a lot more of that. More reality. Yep. Yeah, more reality, as long as it's not like every business that you first business you start will fail bullshit. Okay. Fail a lot. That's that's my other thing. I just, you know. Yeah. That to me says give up. Give up a lot. Give up a lot.
SPEAKER_02:Sometimes you gotta pull the plug, I undoubtedly. They they're they're really trying to say make don't be afraid to make mistakes. Yeah, that's the real thing. That's what it really is. But you yeah, but if but people will interpret that as like it's okay to fail. Yeah. No entrepreneur believes ever, has ever believed it's okay to fail. Never. Have some things failed? Yes. Yes. But they never accepted that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, we went down with the ship if we did, okay? We didn't just jump off the ship the first time it hit the frickin' iceberg. That's right. Get in the first lifeboat. That's right. All right. All right.
SPEAKER_02:Another great episode of Big Talk About Small Business.com.
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