Big Talk About Small Business

Chicken in the Box: Why Your Business Model is Broken with James Hatfield

• Big Talk About Small Business • Season 1 • Episode 128

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Speed decides who wins. That’s the hard truth we unpack with James Hatfield, the blue-collar builder turned Chief Revenue Officer at LiveSwitch, a video-first AI platform that helps small businesses bid faster, reduce truck rolls, and turn phones into closing tools. From reinventing the 911 call with instant live video to powering virtual estimates for movers, electricians, and window washers, James shows how a simple text link can unlock clarity for customers and leverage for crews.

We dig into what makes tools actually usable: no app downloads, plain language, and a setup any technician can run in minutes. James shares practical wins that feel like superpowers, diagnosing an HVAC clog from a short video, scoping storm erosion repairs with accurate materials and costs, and generating CRM notes, contracts, and shopping carts with a tap. He explains why prompt engineering is the new secret recipe and how LiveSwitch builds industry-grade prompts that transform a casual walkthrough into itemized inventories and ready-to-send quotes.

Underpinning it all is a shift from “AI hype” to building a real data moat. If it’s not recorded, it can’t be learned from. We talk sales culture, coaching 100-call days with AI feedback, and why responsiveness, the “race to the face," closes deals before competitors even reply. James also opens up about saying no to outside equity to keep freedom, sending developers to work alongside customers, and leading with service, not swagger. The lesson that ties it together is disarmingly simple: put the chicken in the box, ship real value, fast.

If you’re ready to cut the wait, win more high-margin work, and build a smarter, faster operation, this conversation will light a fire. Subscribe, share with a fellow builder, and leave a review to tell us the one bottleneck you’re fixing first.

Subscribe and tune in for new episodes of Big Talk About Small Business with Mark Zweig and Eric Howerton. Each week we focus on practical insights and real-world strategies to grow your business!

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Speed As The Ultimate Advantage

SPEAKER_04

Amazon has killed us all. Amazon has literally killed us all. Like, I don't like waiting. And I got money. I don't want to wait. And speed wins. Speed wins in the NFL. Speed wins in the Olympics. Guess what? Speed wins in business. And I met a young guy yesterday running a business. He does all virtual estimates for$6,000 jobs and up. And he's winning them left and right.

Host Intro And Guest Setup

SPEAKER_02

All right. We are back today with another episode of Big Talk About Small Business. And I'm here in the studio with Jim Hatfield. I don't have my partner, my usual uh co-host here, Eric Howerton today, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_04

Don't like half of them in today.

Hatfield Roots And Rapport

SPEAKER_02

I I don't know where he is, but he he had to bail out at the last minute. Something came up. But um anyway, um, so I'm gonna miss him because Eric knows a lot more about technology than I do, Jim. I'm an old guy, and I I try to stay up with what's going on, but I'm not, you know, I'm not a guy that has a software business and an AI company and stuff like Eric. So, but I I could be more like a typical customer for you, though. Okay, so you know, you're gonna have to tell me more about um what you all do in layman's terms that I and the listeners can understand. But before we get too far into it, um, you know, uh you share a name with my late father-in-law, Jimmy Hatfield. Oh, wow. He was a figure here. Um my wife's a Hatfield, and and they know that they go back to the Hatfield and McCoy Hatfields. Um, I guess they came from Tennessee originally, or I can't remember where.

SPEAKER_04

Kentucky in West Virginia, and I'm definitely I'm definitely related to your family then.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah, you are. Wow, that's cool. I have to look you up on are you on 23 and me? We'll see if you're uh related to check it out.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I am my my father and brother went really deep into that, and we are directly related to Devil Heads Hatfield, just like a great-great-great uncle.

From Trades To Tech: James’s Journey

SPEAKER_02

Wow, that's something. Well, then you are related. So um you Hatfields are wild. My uh my uh father-in-law here, he was kind of the uh quite a colorful figure. He owned the Cadillac dealership and the uh Pontiac dealerships in uh he was kind of like the Hugh Hefner of Fadville or something. I mean, the guy was so anyway, he was a character. But so tell us more about what you do. I know your title now is Chief Revenue Officer at Live Switch. Tell us about Live Switch first and and what the company does. I know you've been very successful as a company.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I used to own and operate personally uh painting power washing companies for commercial residential, have multiple crews, and you know, I'm come from a blue-collar family. My father built the house I was born in, so uh I'm good with my hands. Uh, can fix an engine. Now I can't because they're all computers on wheels, but whatever. Um, and somehow I got into technology. That was never on my you know life plan. My grandfather wanted to be a painter, so that's what I was, you know. Um, but I met my current business partner by by happenstance. We took a previous company from nothing to Inc. 500 to a multi-billion dollar company that we sold to private equity. Then we got into doing nonprofits, and then we're like, hey, let's get back into for-profit business because we're idiots and we want to do it again. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_02

We could just be able to I mean we all go through this, Jim. I mean, everybody, we start these businesses, we build them up, we sell them, and we go, oh, what are we gonna do now? And about two weeks later, we overcommit and get into other things.

SPEAKER_04

Yep. I'm I'm no different. I'm like, I don't do retirement. You know, like I don't I can't do it. I gotta keep builders are gonna build.

SPEAKER_02

That's just what exactly. It's just in your DNA, and you just gotta do it.

SPEAKER_04

It's in the DNA. So we purchased this company five years ago. It's a 16-year-old company. You've actually seen our stuff and you used it, you didn't know it was us. So uh like we just did the Super Bowl last week in the last four years. If you go to an MLB ballpark and scan a QR code and they put you on the Joe Botron, that's our stuff. Like during COVID, we've powered the NBA bubble and a WWE Wrestling. Wow.

SPEAKER_02

And so big stuff, dude.

Reinventing 911 With Live Video

From Public Safety To Stadium Ops

SPEAKER_04

That's some big stuff, man. And so we and I worked with a bunch of computer scientists, and I just happen to be the painter among all the nerds, and I speak a different language than they do. I don't, I still don't understand half the stuff they say. But I like building things, and so we got a knock on the door from the chief of police in Washington, D.C. And I'm gonna eventually tell you what we do, but I'm a storyteller, so hopefully this is more interesting. And, you know, people keep eating their popcorn or you're driving along or whatever you're doing while you're listening to the show. But uh we are one of the few companies that do live video, and so the chief of police in Washington, D.C. knocked on our door to reinvent the nation's 911 phone call. So I had to come up with a way with my computer scientist to get into the cameras that you carry around in your pocket. You are and when you call 911 and you're compromised, you have no time to download an app, you have no time to be trained, so you gotta, it's gotta be idiot proof. And so I woke up at four in the morning, uh, about three years, three and a half years ago now, and I was like, I know how we're doing this. So while you're on a 911 phone call, you're on this thing called telephony. They still got phone numbers. I can't even remember mine anymore, but we still got those. And we send now I can send you through a different channel. There's a text channel, it's called SMS. We send a text, you can tap a link, and we'll get into your data channel on your phone. And now I can stream your video anywhere in the world. In this case, a police car or a fire truck, emergency medical, so they can see what they're driving into. It's called situational awareness. All right.

SPEAKER_02

It sounds like a fantastic tool. I'm sure you save lives with this.

Discovering Virtual Estimates As “Liquid Gold”

FaceTime Meets AI For The Trades

SPEAKER_04

We do. Um, and so the the next question was like, well, who else can use this? Like, no, download, you see what I see. And so I meet this guy taking care of the NFL team, the Tennessee Titans out of Nashville. And he's 20 years in the FBI. He's looking at our emergency response stuff, and he looks at me and he goes, James, like, yes, sir. He's like, I got the stupidest question for you. Like, lay it on me. He's like, This arena is huge. Can I just text my guy across the arena like when the trash cans fall over so I don't have to hop in my little golf cart? Because that would help me a lot. I'm like, oh yeah, definitely. And in fact, that kind of reminds me of the Nextel walkie-talkie. I literally used to run my entire company off of Nextel. I had the yellow pages, my carbon copies, things, my ledger, and my Nextels. And I ran my painting for that. And I was like, oh, it's just this generations and we'll get it. So the next thing that happens is I meet this guy, happenstance. I mean, life sometimes throws you a bone. Um, I meet this really interesting guy in the moving industry, like moving boxes. He's got a moving company, and he's a really smart guy, and he's looking at my stuff, and he's like, James, I know exactly you're sitting on some liquid gold. And it reminded me of like the old Beverly Hillbillies, um, you know, they're going and clip. Texas T. Exactly. I was like, oh my gosh, this guy's like, you are sitting on liquid gold. I'm like, what do you tell me? He's like, well, the most expensive thing I do as a moving company is I put an hourly wage worker into one of my trucks, driving all over town in the hopes of winning business. Sometimes my guys bid to work, and that customer's like, oh dang, it's that much. I'm just gonna get a U-Haul with my friends, take a hike. He's like, and there's other jobs that are so small where I'm just moving like an apartment. It's not even really worth the drive. I can I can bid that in my sleep. And then the third one is the customer got a big old house, lots of money, they're worth my trip out. And we'll get in, we're gonna use this for virtual estimates. And I was like, Well, will you pay me American money for it? Because I love selling usernames and passwords. And he's like, Absolutely. And we have taken off like a rocket ship ever since, and it's been fantastic. Um, and I'm back in with my people. So, how do I explain live switch if it's long story long? Imagine FaceTime and Chat GPT got together and had a baby and made it for the trades. That's us.

SPEAKER_02

So I guess, yeah, that I mean that's the first thought I hit us why not use FaceTime, but everybody doesn't have an iPhone for one thing, right? And we'll get into that that rules that out. That's right.

SPEAKER_04

And then it's not tuned up for remote assistance, and we'll get into other things.

SPEAKER_02

What so get back to the what's the chat GPT element of it?

SPEAKER_04

And we'll get into so we're recording everything. So now I can run a video through the world's biggest AI, and you can ask it to do anything. This thing fixed my HVAC unit from a 17-second video the other day. My wife, who is not handy, we don't just sell this to consumers, but my wife has access to it, obviously. So she used it the other day and she's not handy at all. And the toilet wasn't working. She took a 30-second video, the thing came back with step-by-step directions how to fix it. She just followed it because it was it writes it out like for her, and she sends me a text. She's like, I fixed the toilet. She was so proud of herself. And they can do anything.

SPEAKER_02

That is awesome. So it takes, you can show the video that it takes, it uses that to figure out what you need to do.

Real-World Fixes: HVAC, Toilets, And Erosion

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and you can ask it to analyze me as a salesperson. Translate this to any language either way. Write my CRM entry for me because I can't, I haven't met anyone who likes doing that. Write my simple contract that you can sign. Give me the materials. Oh, by the way, I shop at this Home Depot, this Lowe's, and this first choice builders. Give me, give me the materials I need and a link to drop it in the car. Whatever you want it to do.

SPEAKER_02

It sounds like mind-blowing. It's amazing tool that, like, I mean, it's obviously useful for business, but it's also useful for just individuals to have.

Five-Minute Setup And Radical Simplicity

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I've been using it on everything. So I'm in Asheville, North Carolina. We had this big hurricane Helene come. Oh my gosh. I mean, we were doing river rescues. I couldn't even get out of my neighborhood. It was crazy. It was something out of some crazy movie. But we got some erosion at the house, but it wasn't to bad enough where I'm like, hey, just put me last on the list. Like, this is a simple job. But when I went out there, I was like, well, let me just try my stuff. So I just hit the record button, took a video, and said, Hey, it's like looks like a you know, about 40 feet, but got a nice steep incline here. Here's a some erosion. You can see my um out of the gutter, the pipes that go through the ground, some gutters are uh the output is sticking out. And then I we wrote a prompt that said, Hey, tell me how to fix this, tell me how much it's gonna be, tell me how long it's gonna take, tell me the materials, go. It produces this report for me, and it tells me the exact how to do everything down to all the materials, like the size of riprap I need, the size of you know the how much um of the coverage, and I and how much is it gonna be? About 2,500 bucks. I have a guy come over who takes care of ground. I'm like, here you go. He's like, Where did you get this? I'm like, I kind of run a tech company. And he's like, This is exact. I mean, he was blown away. Jaw was on the floor. Jaw was on the floor, and he followed it to a T. I knew how much it was gonna be done. He did it exactly, follow it just like it said, and that is crazy.

SPEAKER_02

So what does it so like how hard is it to use this tool if if I was a business and I wanted to implement this and make it available to my employees for any reason?

SPEAKER_04

What how hard is it to use? Five minutes or less. If you can send a text message, you can use my stuff. I my main users are like electricians, move like home service folks, man. Like guys like me. I like my Nextel with one click, I like start my truck with one key turn, I like my power washers with one pull. So here you just literally you can send a text. I got you. I have a guy, uh a customer, he calls me up, he's like, James, I got a 90-year-old on this. I'm like, Yeah, of course you didn't. It's it's like we had to make this for the night for 911, right? And you're so you're compromised, there's no app, you know, like you're you can't. Yeah, yeah. So the like telephone is one of the best inventions. The thing rings, and when you used to pick it up when it wasn't in your pocket, it would it was annoying. And and so you you just pick it up. It's the most beautiful user interface ever. Just pick the phone up. Now you just slide, slide to the right or hit the green button. So all of our stuff is built that way. I make all of my entire company read this book by Alan Siegel called Simple. We don't allow you you in our company, you're not allowed to use acronyms, you're not allowed to use big words because it slows you down.

Pricing, Licenses, And Truck-Roll Savings

SPEAKER_02

Amen, brother. I mean, I I get so tired of the techno speak it's and and the presumption that everybody understands the lingo.

SPEAKER_04

Well, here's the thing it makes that person sound smart, but you know what it does for the other person? News flash, it makes them feel stupid.

unknown

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04

So it's like if you're talking to your customers with big words, you might as well just say, hey, you're you're an idiot. You know what we say in the South and North Carolina? We say bless your heart. And that really means you're some kind of idiot. If someone says bless your heart, that they are saying, telling you you're some kind of idiot. So if you use big speak and acquaintance, bless your heart.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we say that here in Arkansas too. So wow, that's fascinating. So what does it cost? It's cheap.

SPEAKER_04

I think about me when you're filling up your F-150 or your Chevy. All right. So my minimum in impact, I mean, it's$190 a month. If you pay up front annual, it's like$133 a month.

SPEAKER_02

Is that single user?

SPEAKER_04

Uh two users. That's probably, I mean, you don't need to buy this for anyone in your company. You won't, you don't need to. It's already death by subscription out there. And I got millions of people I can sell to, and I don't need to squeeze everybody. Oh, here's a company that's not crazy talk, right? We're not just trying to milk everybody for everything they got. Like, I deal with my people. Like, they're trying to put food on the table, take care of their staff. Like, I gotta, I gotta pay people, this ain't free, you know. But I don't need to come and, you know, I already know I'm I'm a I'm an offender. I'm asking for another subscription, but um no, it's cheap.

SPEAKER_02

That is so like what if you implement, do you have like a multi-user license? I mean, what if I have my friend's got a moving company? Let's say he's got 30 guys out there in six trucks or whatever.

Sales Culture: Hunters, Calls, And Demos

SPEAKER_04

30% company, probably just gonna buy three licenses. I mean, it's gonna be about 175 bucks a month. That's all because anybody can watch a video, anybody can we have QR codes you can scan, links you can tap, all kinds of stuff. Um, I mean, we we just go now that you got five cameras in your pocket, you it's the best invention that's not getting used in your business.

SPEAKER_02

That is amazing. So, I mean, it just seems to me like the potential is insane for this. Must have people trying to buy this business every day.

SPEAKER_04

Well, I sold our last company to private equity, and we made a lot of money. And I'm stupid enough to build another billion-dollar company. Um, and we're not selling this one. We're not going to sell it. I gotta I gotta do something every morning. I literally we want to sell it because we have my business partner and I were just like, well, what would we do? We'd make another company. And we don't it is hard as snot to build any kind of company. It is really hard. I mean, everyone listening, I'm sure, is like, yeah, tell us something we don't know.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. I know. I mean, I've my my first real business, of course, I had many others, but you know, I was on the Inc. 500 twice, and we sold it to a private equity firm and they destroyed it.

unknown

Yep.

Service Quality, Speed, And Trust

SPEAKER_02

And then we then we we ended up buying it back after it was taken over by its lender, got back on the ink list again, and uh and this time I I I was brought some other people in and and sold it to my ownership internally on a 15-year deal. Love that. And they got they just got back on the ink list again last year. It's a 30, 38-year-old company this year. Can you believe that? Time flies. It does indeed. It's amazing. But uh, but yeah, I mean, there's a lot of struggles. As Eric says, if he was here, he'd say, business is nothing but problems. It's it's his favorite saying. It's just every day you just come in, you got problems to solve. I just got up today and had the accountant in one of the companies that I spend most of my time with. He sends me a text that goes, We just got a$15,000 plus bill from an attorney that I don't even know who they are. Okay. You know, it's like, where'd this come from? Out of the blue, you know? It's always, it's every day is like that. It's like, but the way I look at it is if I can have good things that outweigh the bad, you know, it's like, well, we had three bad things happen, but let's think about all the good things that happened today. We had five good things happen. It's a win. It's a win. It's a win. I agree. Yeah. So wow. So this company, uh, this live switch is it's just fantastic. What um so how many employees do you all have?

SPEAKER_04

Well, being private a lot. Let me put it this way. Uh, we bought a brand new building outside of Raleigh, bought the whole building. I got a building in India filled with people, and I just signed another lease in Salt Lake City, and I'm filling it up with salespeople as fast as I can. I can't hire fast enough right now.

SPEAKER_02

Why did you go to Salt Lake? I'm just curious.

Amazon Trained Us Not To Wait

SPEAKER_04

Look. I mean, now I I had adopted my children from that area, so it's a beautiful area. I love it. But I was just hiring salespeople across the country, and sure enough, my guys out of Salt Lake were kicking some tail. I was like, well, I want to fill up the, you know, let me met the mayor at Salt Lake the other other week, and I'm like, hey, let's fill her up. And um, so yeah, we just signed a lease for the building and then got a bunch of guys moving in on Monday. I'm flying out to Salt Lake Sunday night.

SPEAKER_02

Awesome.

SPEAKER_04

We're growing up so fast, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02

So, what do your salespeople do? I mean, I'm just curious. Do they just harvest leads that come in constantly and and close those, or do they make outbound calls, or what do they do? I'm old school.

Pools, Windows, And Winning With Responsiveness

SPEAKER_04

I love hunters. I love hunters, dude. So I have a data guy who loads up uh software that we use called NUTS. It's very expensive, but it works great. Uh, and then it helps them call and wraps AI around it. And my guys make over a hundred calls every single day. We were old school. And I mean, that's how I got the last company. So I mean, some I I think the phone is a great way to talk to business owners. Um, and we do. We we we literally have a two-minute conversation, tell them what our value is. Hey, we're trying to save you truck rolls, you know, be the first to bid it. Let me show you what it is. We get on, we do a demo 20 minutes later, credit card gets swiped, and they're off to the races using it the same day. U yesterday, and I still meet business owners, met a guy on a painting company, bought it right on the spot, used it that afternoon, bought the and won the deal.

SPEAKER_02

That is amazing. I love that. It's been great. Yeah. Yeah. I'm amazing. Like you, I'm a big believer in in you know, training salespeople to make a lot of calls. I mean, right out of grad school, I worked for a business that if we even set the phone in the cradle, they would be like, Well, what are you doing that for? You just hit disconnect and dial again. To put it in the cradle and then pick it up again, you just wasted two seconds, you know? And and the and the way we were managed, and and I've it's a lesson that stuck with me my entire career. Activity precedes results. So if your people are doing what they need to do with the outbound calls, getting through to so many people, making so many presentations, they're going to make so many sales and will result in so many dollars. If they're doing all that and they're not making the sales, then you work on their technique. But if they're not doing that, you forget the technique, go back to the activity. It's just classic sales management.

Hiring, Purpose, And Pride In Building

SPEAKER_04

Hallelujah. Nothing's changed for me for 20 years. It worked for the first billion dollar company, it's going to work for the next one. If they actually make the calls and do the work and you have a good product and your heart is true, and you tell people the truth, crazy concept. Do hard work and tell people the truth and have a good product. Wow.

SPEAKER_02

We all know I mean that applies to so many businesses. I mean, you are in the painting business, okay? You know how bad the providers are. I mean, I've been a developer and I had a design build contracting firm, and you know, I've redone more houses in Fayetteville than anybody else. And, you know, it's just problem after problem getting people to serve you. You know, when we find good subs, we work with them for a long time. I don't even make them bid. I know the owner, they're responsive, but it's so unusual.

Ownership, Control, And Saying No To VC

SPEAKER_04

It's crazy. And that's really the answer to things. I mean, people can't even believe like when I didn't have enough jobs for my guys the next week in my painting company. Guess what I did on the weekend? I knocked on doors. I went door to door, and you know what? It was the easiest clothing I ever got. That's why I did all the rest. Yeah, I had yellow pages and word of mouth, and I love those, and we take them all day long. But if I was a little short, I know exactly how to get the money. Just and I I knew what I would wear, I know how I'd stand on the front steps, I know how I talk to the people, and people actually need their house painted inside or out. They want to. Guy who's reasonably priced, that it's not always about the price, actually, believe it or not. It's like, will the guy do the what he says he's going to do and do a good job and stand behind his work? Like, as an example. Back in the day, these uh paint sprayers started coming out, and I knew like we were we were hand rolling, we were hand rolling homes, we were uh brushing them, you know, and these paint sprayers were coming along, and I kind of knew, like, crap, I gotta get a couple of these. So we went and bought a couple. And the same thing is with technology, everyone's like, oh, AI. I'm like, play with the dang thing. We played with the paint guns and we sucked at them. The first five homes was terrible. We've sprayed the roof, or we forgot to unclog the thing, or like we didn't move it the right way. But you know what happened? By the sixth house, we could hold the shield right, we could spray it right, and we did it in less time, higher quality. I made more money, the customers liked it, and my guys like shooting the guns. And right, so then from there, um, we got so dang good that and so efficient. I do the final walk around and the money collection, just you know, I drive out, make sure everybody was happy. Sure. I was walking this one customer around, and we're looking at this house. I'm like, golly, your house is shining like a diamond, my man. Like it is, you see that? He's like, Yeah, I was wondering. I was like, I get up close, I'm like, it was the paint company we use accidentally shot gloss in my flat. So the house was just shiny, you know, and so, but in a cloudy day, when you could paint a whole exterior when she's prepped in a day, my guys didn't even notice because a cloudy day, and I'd do the walk around on a sunny day. And so then I was like, Well, we're gonna be a nonprofit today, redo it, you know. But I redid it. I'm like, you won't have to paint this house for 15 years, man. You got more paint on here. Uh the customer was happy. I wasn't that happy, but the thing is, I did what I said I was gonna do. Crazy costs.

Serve Don’t Swagger: Blue-Collar Leadership

SPEAKER_02

Crazy probably told 10 other people. Crazy. Yeah, it I teach entrepreneurship at the Walton College, and I, you know, I think that entrepreneurship education goes off course so often because basically, you know, it's all about coming up with a new idea, validating the market for it, and then raising outside equity. And, you know, it basically we're setting up our students for failure. Uh, obviously, some people can do that. I mean, you guys have done it. Eric did it with his last company. So if you can, God bless you. I, you know, I think it's fantastic. But most people would do so much better if they just took a mature market where you know that people need pizza, they need their windows washed, they need their car clean, whatever, and just do a better job with it. And it sounds like that's what your tool allows them to do is just be more responsive. Half of the doing a better job, just being more responsive.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, we have a nonprofit called Inmates to Entrepreneurs. We've had them for quite a while. We go into the jails and we teach men and women how to run their business. We love entrepreneurship. Um, and a great organization. Uh, we have people that have graduated that work for us. Uh, we believe in second chances, and it even turned into an ABC television show called Free Enterprise. My business partner is a star of that show, and we talk all about what you're talking about right now. And people that are receptive to listen are people that need that second chance and they're willing to beat the street and they know where they came from. And, you know, they had some justice stuff in the past, and we, you know, our younger selves sometimes make dumb choices. I know I did. And so um, yeah, we love teaching entrepreneurship and doing like what we're talking about right now.

Build For Users: Developers In Work Boots

SPEAKER_02

That's wonderful because you know, uh we've got a situation right now in one of my businesses. In fact, it was just came up this week where we have somebody uh we can hire as a welder who has a felony conviction, okay? And he just he served five years in prison. And, you know, supposedly he's extremely intelligent, he's a great guy, but you know, as an employer, it's it's a lot harder to hire somebody like that. But if this guy went out and did his own thing, nobody even asked the no. You know what I mean? No, that's not barrier.

SPEAKER_04

That's crazy. So many success stories because of that, you know, and frankly, it almost gives them an advantage because you're like, nope, you can't go get a job.

Prompt Engineering As The New Coca-Cola Recipe

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's it it's it's it's a shame, but it's true. But starting your own business, no barrier to that. I recently, you know, speaking of great service businesses like this, um, I recently used a company called Pink's Window Washing. I know they will. Have you heard you've seen what they're doing? Crazy company. They're growing like crazy. Okay. I know the company. And and I was so impressed. I mean, look, the last window washers I had, they were like, oh, those windows, we can't get those. We can do all of them, but that, you know, it didn't look that good when they were done. These guys were so responsive. I filled out a form, I get a text from somebody, I set up a meeting with them. He comes out when he says, he sends me a quote on exactly what we talked about. And when they came out to do it, they've got branded vehicles, the guys have their uniforms on, they've got unique technology, like they take all the screens off, they got a special screen washing machine, they've got these this uh system that the truck pumps this fluid into a little squeegee-like thing, brush thing. Does a beautiful job. I mean, unbelievable.

SPEAKER_04

There's no problem in that whole process. They drove out to give you an estimate. Crazy should be using your product. Crazy. I mean, really, right. I have window washers that use our stuff all the time. Yeah. Yeah. As customers, we hate waiting for people to come around the house. Crazy damage is gonna be when it went and come do the work and do a great job and show up and be fast. Amazon has killed us all. Amazon has literally killed us all. Like, I don't like waiting. And I got money, I don't want to wait. And speed wins. Speed wins in the NFL, speed wins in the Olympics. Guess what? Speed wins in business. And I met a young guy yesterday running a business. He does all virtual estimates for six thousand dollar jobs and up, and he's winning them left and right because when you call his business, he answers the phone, or he gets back to you in five minutes or less, and he's on it. The crazy heat of that already communicates to the customer everything they need to know.

Data Moats: Record Everything Or Fall Behind

SPEAKER_02

We are so aligned on that. I mean, I learned years and years ago I got a RFP. We had a consulting business. That's the primary one I told you about. But we get a get this RFP from a client and get it at like 4:30 in the afternoon, and I say, you know what, first thing Monday, I'm getting back to this guy. I get back to him, it's already gone. The job's gone. Somebody beat me to it. I mean, it it I never made that mistake ever again. All right. I was always going to be the first guy to respond. And so this is so important. And this tool, I love this. What a great tool to have. We're buying a new, a different house here, and one of the things we want to do is put a swimming pool in. Swimming pool contractors, as you know, are terrible. I've had pools built most of the time. It's they drag their feet, the quality's bad, the, you know, there's big lags in the construction process. Anyway, I did some research. I find this company, and they're so different. If you look at their reviews, they had like 4.8 to 5.0, depending on the you know, the platform, and just hundreds and hundreds of reviews. And what does that tell you? It tells you they're doing something right. So responsive, just like you said, did not come out and got a detailed estimate because they got into the aerial photos, they researched where the septic system was, they got everything they needed, and they had a guy on their staff, put it all in 3D CAD, showing the house out of the detail of the freaking, you know, the outdoor bar and all the porches and everything and how this integrates with it. Absolutely blown away.

SPEAKER_04

Isn't that amazing? That's the competitive advantage right there. I mean, uh every bit of it. And they're gonna feed their their families and take care of the community, guarantee.

SPEAKER_02

It just seems like the opportunities to use this tool are basically unlimited. Yeah, crazy confession. You must just lay awake at night, just like I'd have a hard time sleeping if this was my business, because I'd just be thinking of all these things I could do with it. I don't sleep well.

Race To The Face: Respond First, Win More

SPEAKER_04

And I'm just getting I'm just getting warmed up. I'm just getting warmed up. Crazy people hadn't seen nothing yet. So I guess moral story, don't let a guy on a ladder come off the ladder and get into tech. We might actually build something that people love. So yeah, it's been it's been great, man. And putting a bunch of people to work right now is my favorite, you know, hiring people with a head on their shoulders, giving them a job that they can be proud of what they sell, grow a career out of it, and um take care of their community and family. So um, I've been, you know, right now actually I spend a lot of my time recruiting. I haven't had to like recruit for myself in a while. Usually I'm the last in the in the line of interviews, and you know, I like to talk to everyone before they take a job. I like to, you know, tell them what we're really doing here and what we're about. Uh, but we we've been growing so fast now. I'm on the front line reaching out to people offering jobs. So I noticed our uh unemployment rate keeps ticking up. I don't know where these come on, guys. I got jobs, you know, right here.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I think a lot of people, again, who don't own businesses, they think uh, you know, the only reason we do this stuff is for the money. The money is like way down the list, usually. Creating good jobs for people is one of the most rewarding things that you can do. Crazy human.

Lines, Throughput, And Convenience At Scale

The Chicken In The Box Lesson

SPEAKER_04

I think what happens is people who haven't I didn't grow up with any money, I grew up from nothing. And then you get you get money and you're like, oh well, all right, don't really, whatever. You know, like that what are you gonna do? It's almost like have when you rate you if you're in a career, like when you get up to that certain position, or you you get that truck that you wanted, or you like it's like a stomach that just keeps wanting to be fed, you know. So then you're like, okay, well, I don't really need that. What gets what really gets you going? You know, and I think that's exactly what you're saying. Like watching other people succeed, building something you can be proud of. I'm a very proud papa right now, you know, uh, of the product. Yeah, my customers love my stuff. I mean, that's I am a proud papa. And it was just, you know, following the dotted line, connecting the dots, listening, and you know, talking to people, just saying, like I remember like it was yesterday, you know, four years ago, that guy in the FBI being like, I got the stupidest question. Can I just text my guy across the arena so I don't have to hop my little golf cart? That's when I was like, I mean, I called my business partner right after that. I had two moments in the last four years where I've called my business partner and he thinks I'm crazy and we're crazy together. So I call him up and I tell him the Beverly Hillbillies thing. I'm like, You ever watch Beverly Hillbillies where we're clamping? I'm like, that just happened. This guy, and we didn't have we had no product really at that time, no customer on the platform, none of it. And then I'm just like, I can see it, like I can I can just see it. And so then it started going. The next time I was like, Oh, we got a billion dollar company. My wife as well going around the house, and the HVAC unit in our downstairs area had water overflowing, so she just called the tech and I'm down here for working. Check this out. The tech comes down. I'm like, hey, you don't know this. I'm running a big tech company. Let me text you and you go in there, take a video and don't diagnose it. Act like a stupid customer, just ignorant. Just go in there. He's got his mountain accent because I'm in the mountains of North Carolina. He's in my basement with his phone, and he goes, Well, the water pan's overflowing here, and it's dripping right here, and there's no cap. We then go and rewrite a prompt, diagnose the HVAC unit, tell me how to fix it. And of course, you nailed it. The AI said, Hey, you've got algae or dust or in your drain line. You need to, and here's how to do it. He walks over, he opens a drain line, algae's going everywhere. He looks at me with his jaw on the floor and he goes, Can I buy stock in your company? And I'm like, We're going to a billion dollars, just like that.

SPEAKER_02

I love it. You guys have any outside equity in this? I take nobody's money. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_04

No, I I don't get I don't want anyone telling me what to do.

SPEAKER_02

I that's another thing. I mean, I just said to my students this week, I'm trying to teach them the difference in debt and equity. You know, I the golden rule is he or she's got the gold rules. And so if you want to immediately start a business and then sell equity in it, well, it's like you you just lost it before you're even out of the gate. It's the worst.

SPEAKER_04

And people, when they say, Oh, I'm gonna go get a funding round, I'm like, Well, kiss your business goodbye. Or kiss your control goodbye, your freedom. Put your hands up, wait a minute, put your hands out. I'm gonna put some things around them because now you are you are not free anymore. They're never good money.

SPEAKER_02

They're never gonna have the same idea about the business that you have, and it's just inevitable.

Closing, Website, And How To Connect

SPEAKER_04

No, definitely not. So we don't take any private equity, no venture capital. I don't like taking anybody's money. I don't want your money. Now, if you're a customer, I'll take your money, but I'm gonna make sure I serve you. Because that when you decide to take a customer's money, you have entered a c into a contract where you need to give them something of value, you know. Otherwise, you will not last. Um, you're just pulling the wool over people's. I mean, I you can sell mirages all day long, but you're not gonna build a company off that, and you're certainly not gonna compound.

SPEAKER_02

So um, yeah, I mean something people need or want. I mean, and it's gotta be good. You know, it's fascinates me your background. I have to keep coming back to this because again, you know, I think having the blue-collar background where you do things and also learn how to deal with other people who may not have the education you have or the experience you have or whatever, but not alienate them, not talk down to them, not condescend to them. These skills are so valuable. Doing things and knowing how to deal with people that you learn by doing work. That's right.

SPEAKER_04

We're here to serve and not be served. You know, I'm raising four kiddos, so I'm like, I'm not raising a bunch of takers. You're gonna get out there and give. Because last I checked, giving is better than receiving. I didn't make that word up, you know. That's just old school knowledge right there. So, like, if I can just go and give to my customers and try to put myself in their shoes, but making people feel like idiots and pulling wool over just so you can get a buck is no way to make a good living. And I I like to I try I like to sleep. I don't sleep because I think too much, but at least I got a clear conscience and that's worth all the gold in the world.

SPEAKER_02

I get it. And I'm with you a hundred percent. And not only, you know, is it great for the customers to have that kind of a background, but it's great for you to be able to hire people. And you know, I think the tendency of somebody with your background is to not separate yourself so much from the workers that create that us versus them thing that so many companies have, it, you know, it makes it it, it's really demotivational for the frontline workers when the the bosses don't talk with them, only hang out with each other, have the big offices and the reserve parking places and all that, you know?

Outro And Listener CTA

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, you're not gonna gain any respect from that. You might feel powerful or whatever, but like I have no title on my email. You mentioned my title because it's on LinkedIn. You have to have a title there. But I I put no title on, but I don't want it. You know, I've been I race to the top for so long. You know, the bet easier way to go, race to the bottom. No one's going that way. So I just go to the bottom, I can hand off all my roles to other people. I try to make myself redundant as fast as possible. Um, and you know, I don't want to corner any part of my business. I don't want to be like only I can do this. Well, that's a very proud thing to say, and that's a very slow thing to say. If you want to be fast, you want to grow, you make yourself redundant, you pass off the work, you put another individual to work, and then you know what I do with my developers, my computer scientists who are coding, who have soft hands, and I make fun of them all the time, I make them go to our customers and work there for a day. So and then they have to shower after work. So you could go to my moving company customer and go move boxes. If you're gonna code for these people and serve these people, you better, yeah. Every week we I bring different customers and owners to my team to listen to them, listen to them. You know, like if you're gonna serve them and design for them, you have to learn to be them. You know, I'm not gonna ask my customer to learn how to speak coding language. Oh my goodness. Um, but I am making my coders learn the language of the blue-collar team. And they're they're fabulous people. Assault to the earth, best people, some of the best people on the planet.

SPEAKER_02

That's a great way for them to be able to design their product in such a way that it actually makes sense for the user. So there's so much of a disconnect there, I think, in businesses that, you know, it's like one of the problems. Uh I just use them as an example. Harley Davidson is not doing well. You know, I don't know if you've read anything about it, but they've got declining sales, they've got dealers going out of business, they've got a bad relationship with their dealers, they they their product mix is all wrong, it's all too expensive and too big, you know, their their clients or audience is dying off. And, you know, one of the problems one could say is they have they they don't have people who actually use their products at the top of the company. They're hiring brand managers who have backgrounds in running clothing stores or whatever. It's not gonna work. You've got to be out there, you gotta be a user of the product. You've got to understand your audience, I think.

SPEAKER_04

Um I I wear the same clothes as my customers. I'm covered in car heart, you know. I've always worn, but like you know, I'm covered in this stuff. I eat at the same things. I I do you've got to be the customer, you've got to go to the customer. The customers always have the answer to the test. If you're not winning, it's probably because you're not with your customer. And they don't give out participation awards, you know. But if you're really listening, you try to be humble, you might actually make something that they like.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think I think it helps when you have been in the business, you understand what the needs are on a different level. You know, years ago, I had some clients who I worked with architects and engineers my whole career. And these guys were an architecture firm based in the Boston area, let's say 35 plus years ago, and they served mall tenant clients. So they did tenant build-outs in malls, and they had a pretty good business, maybe 110 people. So it wasn't, you know, like a little company for that narrow of a focus. They made all their employees work in a candy store that they had in a mall that they owned. They went through the process of leasing the space, designing it, building it out, and then they had their people go there and work okay, so they could see what's it like. Like materials come in. How do we get this stuff into place? And I just think that was such a progressive thing to do.

SPEAKER_04

So smart. So smart. I walked around the farm with my business partner the other week. And I'm like, I think I'm gonna go start a pest control company and I'm gonna make our developers work at it for a full week or a month. And I mean, I'll do crazy stuff like this. Like that, that is brilliant. Like actually having a candy store in your place, but I mean, that's brilliant. I love it.

SPEAKER_01

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SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so many businesses go off course on that. And so I think your background is really interesting. Most people in your role in the kind of company you have have not had that as their experience.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Well, you know, I'm grateful. I'm grateful from where I came from, grateful for who we get to serve. And um, yeah, I'm I'm very proud of you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So what comes next for you all? Lots of cool stuff.

SPEAKER_04

I'm literally just getting warmed up. Um can I I'm not supposed to tell you any of this stuff, but I'll at least give you a little hint. So within AI, one of the hardest things, if if you and by the way, if you guys are scared of AI, I totally get it. But I totally get it. Like if you think it's gonna take over the world and kill us all, I totally get it. Or you might be on the other end of the spectrum like me, I'm like, I now that I've got it, I'm gonna use it ever I use it every day for everything. Everything.

SPEAKER_02

It's so lot of uses. Uh undoubtedly. The more you use it, the more you realize the value of it. And now you don't really use it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. And you don't trust everything the dang thing says. It's really not like, don't do that. You know, you still I always call it like the like the Iron Man suit. I still you still need Tony Stark inside the thing, right? And so like I I'm I'm Tony, you know. So use and play with AI. All right. Get if you haven't started, start today. Go get your favorite flavor. I tend to use Gemini all the time, but take a pick one and start using it. Play with it. Like I was playing with the paint sprayers I was talking about. Just play with it. So you'll find that when you ask it to do something, prompt it is what they call it. That writing the prompt actually be the whole key. So we are now spending lots of time creating incredible prompts for industries. We made an 11-page prompt for the moving industry. Okay. And here's what this thing can do: you can literally send a text to your customer and go get a cup of coffee and tell them, hey, just walk around and tell me what you want to move. They can walk around, you get a ping, you run this 11-page prompt. It's one button push, by the way. And our little AI agent is a little black lab. My business partner's dog died last year, so we immortalized it. So it's a little black lab. We call them Lucky. You tap on Lucky, you tap another button that says, give me the moving inventory. That's all you got to do. Just tap tap. That's it. Done. Lucky will go and review the entire video, give you itemized everything with a picture of everything, the cubic weight of it, all the packing materials that you need, the entire inventory, even down to like, is the person like that's not going, this is going, that's going, every little bit, and writes it all out. Something that used to take a mover hours to do. Lucky does it quickly and more accurately. You still need to check it. Don't trust all the AI. But this prompt writing piece is what I'm obsessed over right now. And so what I'm gonna do, I shouldn't tell you this. What I'm gonna do is I'm going to all of these business owners that are that are on stages, that are a little more, but don't have to be on stages. They can just be business owners who are, they've they've they've dialed their business in. I'm going to business coaches, and they're going to be able to write these prompts. And people can just, hey, these are you know the Mark and Eric prompts for your industry. It'll have your picture up there and your name and it's your thing, your Coca-Cola recipe. It won't show the entire prompt. And I may even allow you to monetize that. Like, hey, you know, tip mark a quarter, you know, a dollar for that. You just click the button. Because that Coca-Cola recipe, that prompt is very difficult. And if it's done right, it can do amazing things. So prompting is like what I'm thinking a lot about recently.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you you need to talk with Eric. It's a shame he's not here because he's into that with his ad fury AI. I know that's that's a big part of it. But the um, yeah, I mean, I I understand enough about AI to realize how critical that is. And you could just sit there and just pick off vertical markets all day long.

SPEAKER_04

That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna make it one button press. Like you just say, hey, I'm an electrician, here's all your electrician prompts, or hey, I'm an electrician in you know, Arkansas.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's fantastic. Wow.

SPEAKER_04

So that's next. And then the even broader thing, I mean, I'm just getting warmed up, is you're every day you're collecting information, media. It's every time someone makes a phone call in your business, if it's recorded, if you send an email, if you take a video, take a photo, write out a contract, it's all data. So I yep, so I'm gonna say this in plain language. I'm creating a vacuum cleaner to suck all of that up. All right, it's everything, suck it up. Then in the middle, you tell it what you want it to do with it. Like let's say you had a call center, and like just alert me when my when the when someone's not upselling like we've trained them, and this is what we train to upsell. And then the third thing is you tell it how you want to be communicated with. Do you want to email? Do you want to text? Do you want a phone call? And that way you can just wait, and this can this thing can watch all of your data in your company to help elevate it. Like the program I was telling about how I make my team makes cold calls 100 plus a day, I've wrapped it all in AI. And it coaches them. It coach every call, it coaches them, and it tells them where they get hung up, what they need to say, they can listen to it, trains them.

SPEAKER_02

And just the the benefit of being able to capture all that data and put it in your CRM. You know, one of the probably the biggest problem with CRMs is that they're not populated, right? It's like you go there and you don't see that somebody's already made a proposal to this client or talk with them six months ago or whatever. You miss all that because the people aren't keying it all in.

SPEAKER_04

They hate writing it. News flash. So here's what you do they hold up their phone. Yeah, you record the whole thing, it goes into the cloud. Now you have a video, you're bringing YouTube into your business, then you hit a button that says write my CRM entry for me. Boop, and writes the whole dang thing out, and they copy and paste that in. Having your team, you need the information, you need the data. But how you get how you get the data does you need to make that so dang simple. Asking your team to spend time keying that whole thing in, you're paying a lot of money for people to click on a keyboard to get information from their head into your system. Now you have to do this stuff because if you ever want to exit, they're gonna want, and if you want a better multiple than nothing, they're gonna want to see all of your business process documented. And now just whip the phone out and take a video of everything you're doing. It'll increase the value of your business. So here's what's happening. Once upon a time, electricity was a competitive business advantage. Now you'd be laughed at if you said, Hey, you know the best thing about business, we use electricity. You're an idiot. Second, now we've all seen it happen. You say the word AI about it a year ago, six months ago, your multiple would jump up. Well, now you're gonna sound like an idiot saying, Oh, yeah, we use AI in a business. It's just like saying, Well, you got electricity. It's already in the rear view, ladies and gentlemen. If you aren't using AI, you're not using electricity yet. Just it is what it is. I'm just being honest with you. The next moat, the next big thing, and this is why there's they want data centers everywhere, is the data moat. So every time you don't record your work, you're gonna wish you had, if you're a five-year-old business, five years of data recorded. So there is a race to get data because you can do so much with this data in your entire company. So there is a race for data, and you're already behind. You're already behind. Like and it you're gonna you're competing against these people. I bring these people up on stages to talk. I'm leading a big virtual conference next week. Got 400 business owners coming. I love educating. I'll get these business owners up there, and people will look at these guys like they got two heads. Like I got this one guy in Seattle running an eight-finger business, moving company, and he has his entire sales team in South Africa and his business manager in Poland. That'll get shit.

SPEAKER_02

Wild.

SPEAKER_04

He runs his moving company.

SPEAKER_02

Moving company. Which you think of as a local business, right? I mean That's it.

SPEAKER_04

And why? It's hard to find good people. Sure. Not because he doesn't want to keep jobs in America. Not at all. In fact, he'd hire them all.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_02

So I get it.

SPEAKER_04

But he's got speed and the need for speed. And when somebody calls your company, they're not asking you what you have for breakfast. That's the hottest time to sell somebody. So the faster we call it race to the face, have you ever lost a job saying, Oh, yeah, let me schedule a time, I'll be out there in a few days. And then you call up a few days later, hey, I'm headed out. And the person's like, Oh, don't bother, I found somebody.

SPEAKER_02

You only lost because you were slow. Oh, it's so true. I mean, I might have said it on this show recently. I was not long ago, I was looking for a trailer hitch for my wife. She had an Audi Q5 Sportback. So I'm on, she needs a trailer hitch to put the bike rack on. So, of course, you know, I Google it, I find all the trailer hitches. They all say Audi Q5, Q5, Q5. None of them says fits the Q5 Sportback. So I send an email out to two different companies. Does your hitch fit a sport back? One of them responds to me within about 10 minutes, and I go, I'll buy it. Boom, done. The other guys got back to me in maybe two to three hours, and I said, too late. It just it's exactly what you're saying.

SPEAKER_04

It's no different than sports at speed. And that's what is uh that is what's going on right now. Is we have no patience. I was talking to the executives uh in Panera and Subway, because uh they have these things called lines, it's called fast casual. Do you like waiting in line? I hate waiting in line. So for finding ways to get rid of the line, so now you can just go to your table, scan a QR code, uh, pops a person if you need a person, or you put your order in, and they get the money. Because you know what happens if you stand in line and you you're really hungry, and you're really hungry, you leave. So they want throughput. But if you go in and you pay for your meal, uh when you pay for it, you just leave. And so you're they're thinking about all of these different experiences that can be changed and brought forward all on the back of that's just speed. That's all that is. Speed and convenience, speed and convenience. And the most convenient and the fastest companies that do good work, have good product, don't put out a terrible sandwich or you know, terrible whatever you you build, you know, you got to make sure. Um, and oh my goodness. That that that's what it's all about. It's so funny. I I'll tell you one other story here. I know we've been going for a while, but it's one other story. So the last company we had, we were flying. I mean, we're ink 500 year after year after year, and I was burning at both ends. And I was, you know, I just needed, I needed, I just needed to clear my head. So we we I picked a spot somewhere up in the Cape Cod area, Chatham, um, you know, just to go out during the summer. I took my family, I took a couple of coworkers, and we're driving to go to this month-long house that we rented. And in Jersey, they have this huge rest stop. I mean, it's a monster. And so I've got my other coworkers with me, and we're um we're we're stopping at the rest stop. And everyone goes, gets their food, they sit down, and we're like, where is Lindsay? Like, where is Lindsay? Like, we are done, we are ready to go. And I see her. She now she's walking towards us, she's shaking her head. You can tell, oh boy, something's not right. She's a little cock-eyed. Like, where have you been? She's like, Oh, I was just trying to get some fried chicken in this line, and they were taken forever. But what happened? I'm sitting, she's like, I'm sitting there, and there's this big dude in front of me, like big old dude from Jersey. You can only imagine. Like, scary looking kind of guy, big boy. And there's this little guy behind the um cash register, and the guy had been waiting, they've been waiting forever. And he gets up there, and the little guy guy behind the register is like, hello, sir, welcome to whatever chicken restaurant. Can I help you? He's like, I don't know if you can help me. I don't know. He's like, You know what you gotta do, and maybe I need to get back there. You take the chicken, you put it in the box, and then you hand it to me. That is what you do. You do this quickly. What is wrong with you guys? And he, the kid is like shaking. Lindsay's laughing her head off. You know, you can just see this poor little kid, right? But this guy is explaining business in the best way I've ever heard in my life. I use this all the time in my business, and it's crazy. It's crazy how much it comes up because when you're coding something or whatever you're doing, like my engineers, we squash bugs. They call it squashing bugs. So they'll fix the bug, right? They'll say, Oh, it's fixed. It's fixed, boss. I'm like, is it in production? Is it in the live product? Is the customer benefiting from your bug squash? Oh no, no, it's waiting in the queue. It's not fixed, brother. You put the chicken in the box, you gotta hand it to them. And it needs to be hot, juicy, and delicious. But you can apply this everywhere in your business. And now that you've heard this, you'll see it all over, and it will drive you mad. This is the thing that keeps me up, but uh and not a beautiful business lesson. I don't know, please help me.

SPEAKER_02

That is beautiful. Well, unfortunately, we're out of time, and uh I know that uh Eric's gonna be sad he he missed this today, and and I gotta say, I I this has been a really fun conversation, and you've got my head spinning, and I'm just thinking of a million things I need to do. And uh I appreciate uh you sharing your very, very valuable time and insight with our our listeners today. If anybody wants to learn more about you and your product and all, what is your website address?

SPEAKER_04

Yep. Website is live switch.com, L-I-V-E, S-W-I-T-C-H.com, live switch.com. You can get me directly on LinkedIn if you want to talk. I love talking to business owners or anyone listening. Come to me, test me in this. I will give you my time. I've done it many times before, and I got great stories, which we don't we don't have time. Maybe for round two. I told Eric, I'm sure we'll I'll be back again with you guys. So I got 10 stories, man. Yeah. Live switch numbers.

SPEAKER_02

You got you got so much to offer, and I really appreciate your spending time with us today. And uh hopefully we'll get to see you again. But until then, this has been another episode of Big Talk about small business. Bye-bye.

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