Marketing Or Die: Why Specialized AI Wins

Revenue decline is rarely a mystery; it’s usually the result of silent marketing and a refusal to adapt. Many business owners watch their numbers drop by 40% while claiming they’re "too busy" to post on social media or engage their community. In this episode, we tackle the dangerous gap between theoretical "founding" and the gritty reality of running a profitable company.

We sit down to dismantle the "off-the-shelf" approach to business technology and promotion. We get into the critical need for specialized AI vendors over generic subscriptions, the "missing-middle" of business expertise, and why hiring a generalist is often the most expensive mistake you can make. The conversation covers the tactical necessity of relentless promotion, the reality of GPS-level precision in marketing, and the specific philosophy that energy is a more valuable currency than time. We also explore the "secret sauce" of successful growth: prioritizing customer obsession over investor approval.

The unglamorous truth is that most venture capital models are built on a mountain of failure, yet they are the ones being taught in our universities. Real entrepreneurship is a war zone of chaos and constant adaptation, not a clean 10-page slide deck with 30-point font. You’ll walk away with a necessary mindset shift: stop trying to de-risk every move until you're paralyzed. Practical success comes from casting a thousand hooks in the water and having the guts to be "unreasonable" until the job is done.

Subscribe and tune in for new episodes of Big Talk About Small Business with Mark Zweig and Eric Howerton. Each week we focus on practical insights and real-world strategies to grow your business!

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Transcript

Revenue Drops Without Marketing

SPEAKER_01 0:00

My revenues down by 40% from last year, but I can't even bother to take a picture of my friggin' food and stick it on Instagram. You don't have to be a genius to see. You've got to do marketing.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

Yes, you can use ChatGPT or Gemini. Sure. But if you're trying to solve real business problems, you need to find specialty companies that have already dug into that.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

It's another beautiful day in paradise. Here in the freezing cold studios of podcastvideos.com. Keep it cold around here. It keep get you in and get you out, bro. I guess that makes sense. That makes sense. This is we got to turn these studios, right? Maximize the rental. This is a bit a for-profit business here. Hell yeah. I love the sign up front too. Free studio tour. I do. I love that. Because you're sitting right by the busiest coffee shop in Northwest Arkansas when it comes to business. No. You know. You know, we get your free studio tour. I know. And it's always, and you got such great people in here. We do have good people. And you do such a great provide such a great service. I don't think people realize just how easy it is doing business with podcast videos. It's fair.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

And that's the the trick of business, though. I mean, I just got out of the meeting just now that like it's like trying to articulate the value. And people are so busy, you know, clients are always just busy. They've got a lot of things swarming their head. Yep. Just trying to find out through that conversation what is it that's actually bothering you.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Yeah, take all the friction out of the whole thing. You show up, you got notes, you got free coffee and soft drinks. What do you guys need? You guys edit everything, you put it out on social media on all the platforms, you put it out on all the streaming platforms. You can carve it up into little bits and pieces.

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Makes it easy on you.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

It's amazing.

Relentless Promotion And Clear Positioning

SPEAKER_03 1:53

The next thing you know, you're freaking famous. No shit. Yeah, that is one thing I've noticed from doing this show. Like there's constantly video content that's on social. Yeah. And it's coming from you guys.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Yeah. Yeah. It's just powering through. I tell you, I this, you know, I think I said it last week, but the last three weeks of the semester, I have my students making their presentations on small businesses that they consult with as a part of my class. And Eric, every single one of them has nowhere near enough marketing. Really? I swear to you. I mean, it just blows my mind. Such easy things to do. I got a catering business. I put out a post on Instagram once a month. Yeah. I'm like, not gonna happen. Are you out of your friggin'? I mean, if I had a catering business, I would have five to seven posts a day on you know, Instagram, TikTok, uh, Facebook. I'd have videos, I'd be out at events that we're doing, I'd have pictures of my food, I'd have interviews with my employees. I mean, there's just so much you can do to become known as the frigging catering company or whatever business. They're all the same. Every one of them. It just blows me away. Well, I got a restaurant, my revenues down by 40% from last year, but I can't even bother to take a picture of my friggin' food and stick it on Instagram. You know, I mean, it's like you don't have to be a genius to see, you've got to do marketing.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

Yeah, and a lot of people don't, and I think what you put into marketing too is just going out in the market and talking to people about what you do. Like there's so many people that just don't show up anymore. Yeah. It's like you gotta be relentless. I mean, I'm in continuous conversations. Like, actually, my day is about 80% in meetings constantly, not doing the work that I need to be doing. So I have to do the work either super early before work starts or late at night. Yeah. You know, and then maybe one day a week I block out a few hours, and by the time I get to it, I can't even remember all the stuff I have to do because I have too much to do. Oh, sure. I'm sure that's the case. Yeah. But I mean, like always talking, always just promoting, campaigning, what you got going on. Like it just requires all that, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

What makes your business different and unique too? It's like, yeah, it there's there's all if you can't articulate that, yeah, and and make that into a benefit for your clients or customers, you're dead in the water. Yeah. I mean, it should just be like boom, it comes out of you. Yeah. This is what we do that nobody else does. This is what we have that nobody else has.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

Yeah, and just being able to articulate pain points, you know. I think that one thing that I've always had that, you know, as I've told the team, that there is one skill set I've had, it's the ability to just put myself in my in the anybody's shoe, you know, seat.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

And and kind of like legitimately feel the pain that they go through. Like, do they have a thousand emails they gotta scrub through?

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Right.

AI Tools Need Specialized Vendors

SPEAKER_03 4:54

Like, what is it that they don't want to do, but they always have to do that's just sucking the life out of them? Yes. Because as a business, I'm here to provide that value. Take a problem off your plate in exchange for currency. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Well, that's why you're so simple. That's why you love AI so much. Because you can take a lot of the drudgery out of daily tasks and things that a business has to do. If it's used properly, which it's not most of the time, let's face it.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

Yeah, there's there's speaking of like on that, I just literally got to have a meeting where my pitch was basically, what do you hate doing?

SPEAKER_04 5:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Whatever you we're not here to disrupt, we're here to take off whatever is plaguing you, whatever the thorn in the side, or any new initiatives that you cannot do because you don't have the capacity. Yeah. If you try to do this AI stuff yourself, you know, this is in the retail spec, if you try to do this yourself, you're gonna be spending a year and a half trying to get your systems together. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

You're trying to learn stuff that other people have already figured out.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

We figured we've spent jobs of money and time and expertise. Well, you know what down this wormhole.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

This is to me, it's just like when software started becoming popular for to do things like manage your finance and accounting or your people scheduling or that kind of thing. And when I would see companies tell me, like, we're we've got our own system that we created that does our billing or whatever, I'd be like, Are you out of your friggin' mind when there are specialized building software? Yeah, exactly. That like millions of dollars of RD has gone into and it's being it's being used all over the place and constantly refined, but your one guy that sits back there in a room is gonna figure this out better than them.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

It's freaking idiotic.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

Yeah, no, by the way, it costs you$200 a month versus you know the$8,000 that you're paying somebody to sit there and do that. Your developer to sit there and write this.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

I mean, it's just it's the same thing with the AI.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

Exactly the same. You can, you know, yes, you can get a quad subscription. Great. Congratulations. Yes, you yes, you can use ChatGPT or Gemini. Sure. But if you're trying to solve real business problems, you need to find specialty companies that have already dug into that, and every day they're mastering the velocity. Because like software, software was chaotic to keep up with. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

New technologies, it was hard because it wouldn't work on your pro on your network and all that. The machines were so critical back then.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Yeah, it was just always a problem. Always a problem. Yeah. AI is about 100 times that. Yeah. When you try to, if you're gonna try to, as a company, to instill AI tools and use the big large language models and have subscriptions, that's that's gonna solve your unique business challenges. You're gonna have a 10 times harder problem solving them than you would, like for your example of trying to build something internally. Yeah, you're gonna get smoked. Sure. So the age of having of hiring specialty AI companies, just like you would with software, is here. Sure. And we we don't need to try to be all software developers. Just because you can code cloud doesn't mean you should code. No, that's so true. I mean, it's it's the it's the truth. And and there's people out there that don't have any business acumen that are seeing an opportunity, and I've ran into a lot of them. Oh man, I've been digging, I'm a claw claude master now. I can do anything. Yeah, you can do anything until shit hits the fan, you know, and some and there's been some soccer penetration. Yeah, exactly. Are you tied into all the other systems? That's right. The organization work. Yeah. There's a there's gonna be a lot of painful, well, painful uh uh uh you know, crossing the barriers on this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Yeah, it's kind of like, I mean, this may seem tangential to you, but it's kind of like desktop publishing software when it came out. It's like you could be a master of page maker or whatever. Imagination. Yeah, what you know, you're like, you know how to use it. But if you're not a very good designer to start with, you just because you know all the whistles and bells and tools and how to use them doesn't mean your end product is gonna be worth a damn. That's right. Right?

SPEAKER_03 8:59

It it's exactly the same. And in the and so what people gotta be really uh conscious about, I have never in my life, and you can hear it from about a lot of people, you know, never in my life have I seen such a massive uh aggressive innovation of disruption than what's been going on with AI. And if you're gonna be somebody that tries to internalize it by using large language models that are baked out for the entire eco, you know, the entire nothing specialized about it. Sure. Then you're gonna then you're gonna try to hire to program in that and put those pieces together. Number one, you're gonna have a hell of a time accomplishing that. Number two, mainly because these large language models are always innovating. So the second you start, everybody's all geeked out on Claude right now. Right. Well, Claude's been around for a long time. Sure. Everybody was geeked out on Chat GPT for a long time. Now it's not, you know, now Claude's taking it. Guess what's gonna happen? Gemini or OpenAI is gonna beat out Claude or X. You know, they're gonna it's always gonna be this thing. And so when you built an ecosystem based on Claude, and then all of a sudden Gemini comes out with something that just absolutely is far superior, and now all your competitors are taking advantage of Gemini while you're stuck in Claude. We're you we're still using BlackBerries when iPhones are have taken over, right? That's exactly right, man. It's just it's you're you're gonna be A behind them, but then you'll be so far behind going forward. And so you just gotta be really conscious of it. I mean, and you can't have big conglomerate companies that are now all of a sudden AI experts, right? Because everybody can be an AI expert right now. You just go into Claude or Gemini and you say, give me talking points about an AI expertise for our next meeting. Sure. And you can know all the talking points, big shit and deal. Yeah, right. You know, it's it's that's been commoditized. Yes. So you got to be able to procure better as a business person. Like it's like really looking for a good vendor, just like we always have, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:00

So it's all about specialization. It has been.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 11:03

If I want to do a direct mail campaign, yeah, and I run down the street down to FedEx Kinkos because they can print it. Yeah. Oh, we can mail it for you too. Oh, can you? Yeah. That's great. But are you a mailing house? Do you have the bulk mailing freaking permit? No, they don't know what the hell. They don't have list management. They don't have they can't do all the dedupes and all those other kinds of stuff. Exactly. And you can pay a small fortune. So you go to a mailing house.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:28

What do you need to mail?

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Well, it's just like it's the same thing with houses, you know. I always get these calls from people. They're like, Yeah, because they know I know something about it. They're like, I need to get got a number of a good handyman. And like, what do you need a handyman for? Well, I need to replace my kitchen faucet and then my I want to put a new tile floor in my master bath. I'm like, hey, here's a novel idea for you. Call up Kim Plumber. Call the plumber for the faucet, and then call the tile guy for the tile. Because otherwise, the the handyman's gonna butcher your freaking faucet. One or the other. Okay. And you'll be, yeah, and you'll be paying a plumber to take out his crap and fix it. So you're paying for it twice. And the same thing with the tile guy. Get the expert. I mean, it's just like I I constantly beat on my students on this when it comes to attorneys. I mean, that is just Oh, yeah. Every field's like that. Especially the legal field. Every single field, the architecture and engineering industry. It's like I don't want people learning at my expense. Okay. You know, if I'm doing a project and I've got I'm doing a dental clinic, find me somebody that's done freaking 50 dental clinics. I'll guarantee you they know shit that the guy who's never done a dental clinic, I don't care how good that guy is or what design awards he's won, okay? Or she's won. It's all about specialization.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

It's all about specialization. And the big trap is that AI has seemingly, by their own propaganda, yeah, sort of leveled the playing field. It's not leveled for a damn thing, man. It's actually worse. Yeah, I get it. You cannot have one subscription that fits and fixes all your problems. That that is that is a danger zone for two people going through.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

It's like everything else, it's a tool.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

Even if you even if you don't use clock, you need to have somebody that knows how to prompt specifically. Exactly. Maybe using that technology, but you pay the person that's going to be designing that flow. And they go deep about a very specific thing.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

You know, because I mean you can't find a journalist, like you can't find an AI person, somebody just knows AI, and now all of a sudden you're your prompting expert for your entire ecosystem. That's a bad deal. Yeah. Like they have a knowledge and expertise in what the hell they're prompting towards.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Exactly. Well, it's just again, now this to me is it it takes me back to another one of my subjects I'm passionate about. And that is having people who actually care and have a passion for what the business does. All right. If I'm a restaurant, I want people who love food or love pleasing people, okay, or both. All right. If I'm in the friggin' motorcycle business, I want people who love riders, love bikes, know about bikes, can work on bikes, ride bikes themselves. I don't want people that are just like a good marketer. Yeah. Okay. Because they're not gonna really get it when it comes down to it. Yep. You know, that's very true. You gotta know something about what the business actually does and have a passion for that.

SPEAKER_03 14:41

That it goes through the whole thing. Have you ever heard like Tom's more valuable than money?

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_03 14:47

And I agree with that. Especially when you're old.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Now, when you're young, it's the opposite. Money's more valuable than time. Seriously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At some point in your life, you know, first you trade off time for money. And at some point in your life, you start trading up money for time, and then you get really lazy. Okay. It's like there's people doing all kinds of shit they shouldn't be doing.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

Well, we talk about like employees at a company like you're talking about, right? Yeah, yeah. Their time is is very valuable, right? If they spend the time and they're showing up and they're spending time, I found out something that's more valuable than time.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

That's the energy of that time. Oh man, that's so true. And what you were talking about, that passion, that's the value of it. If you choose a vendor that's passionate about and is infusing energy into the time that they're billing you, so much better.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

You get a completely different result. It's not like a little bit better, it's like 10 times or 100 times better. That's right. No, I totally understand what you're saying. It well, it just stops being a job for these people. It it becomes their what they are, it becomes their their identity, it becomes their everything, you know, to to solve this problem, to make this customer happy, to improve the product.

Founder Hype And The Pitch Deck Trap

SPEAKER_03 16:05

Yeah. It's you know, I'm afraid to bring this stuff up. This is gonna be a complete curveball. Oh no, what? I've got something I've been I've been just ranting about lately. Okay, what's that? It's driving me crazy. Founder. Oh, yeah. I've seen it online. I tried, I called you out. Yeah, I was expecting more out of you, by the way. You let me call me out.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

What am I supposed to do?

SPEAKER_03 16:25

I wanted you to get wig out with me. I wanted you to just like release the dragon, the dark drag dragon. So basically the statement. Well, it wasn't clear to me that that's what you wanted, or I wouldn't have done it. Next time I'll text you, say release the dragon.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Okay, I I would be glad to do that. But yeah, they are different.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

Very different in this whole mentality of investors trying to find founders. Yeah. And they skip over experience proven, industry specialized, expert, been there, done it, doing it again, entrepreneurs. Right. It is driving me absolutely out of my freaking brain.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Well, a smart investor, you'd think, would be able to realize the difference in the two, and the risk factor of the former versus the latter is must be completely different.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

So, my here's my point. If you're an investor, what do you want? You want return on your investment. That's the reason you're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

And the way and the way to get return on your investment is to de-risk shit going back. Exactly. And you de-risk by experience and wisdom gained in prior successes and failures both.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

Yes. Yeah. I want somebody that is going to be able to navigate the ecosystem, not give up, yeah, is passion behind what they're doing, has already proven that they've been behind there. So why do we keep, as a community and as a country, keep promoting, become a founder, get an investor, do your pitch decks, it's and get some money and capital.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

You know, that's real, I mean, it's it's pop culture, but it's really funny because I had a conversation. Um uh it was yeah, it was yesterday. Today's Wednesday, it was yesterday. The days fade for me because it goes so freaking long and so early. I don't know about you, but I was up before 4 a.m. today. Yeah, okay. But anyway, two really, really successful investors. Yeah. One of them had done sold a company to Google. Uh, they're doing all kinds of stuff on really big scale. Okay. I mean, I won't even get into who they are, but let's just say super successful in the entertainment and business world. Two guys, all right. And before we had this call, they said, Do you have a pitch deck you could send us in advance? I said, I have no pitch deck, but I'll tell you anything you want to know. We got on the phone, we or Zoom or whatever the hell it was.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

You were in this meeting?

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Yeah, it was me with these two guys. We talked These two guys were investors, or these are the These are two guys are investors. Okay. Okay. In a venture, potential investors in a venture I'm involved with. Okay. They said to me 10 times how refreshing it was to talk to somebody who was not bullshitting them with some kind of a bullshit pitch deck, okay, to just give them the absolute truth. Yeah. They were they were blown away by that. Okay. Now, to me, it's obvious, it's like, I don't want to waste your time. Yeah. Why would I want to misrepresent anything and sell you? I don't want to sell. We know how dangerous that is.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

Can you imagine taking money from somebody and you don't and you like the media?

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

You like I just am I screwing up?

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Well, if you have any kind of conscience, okay. There are some people that like act like it's okay to look at. They're professional pitch deckers. Yeah, exactly. They don't care. I mean, that to me is like immoralists. Snakes. Yeah. Lizards. But but I mean, yeah, it's it it's pop culture has created this thing. Okay. I think there's starting to be a movement. You think? I do. I I sense there is. I I could be wrong.

SPEAKER_03 20:06

I'm telling you right now, like, I feel like that the entrepreneurs in our community, especially, which we are an entrepreneurial community, this is what makes me even more mad.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Well, we are here.

SPEAKER_03 20:15

The greatest entrepreneurs of all time have come out of the entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

I know we are so underestimated.

SPEAKER_03 20:20

We are underestimated, it's undervalued. We have completely skipped the entrepreneur spirit. Yeah. And we're trying to invent and fabricate one that's based upon the West Coast.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

And they're well, dude, it's kind of like though, Bentonville is almost like a oh, what do I want to say? It's like a model for that in a way. It's like, let's create this unbelievable world out of nothing. Right. Okay. Right. And do it. Out of gravel roads. Yeah, in about two or three years. And you're like, we got a whole new hip, cool place to be. It's like you can't do things like that in a way. It's like it's too, it, it, it becomes artificial. Plastic. Yeah, it becomes just like what you're saying about the entrepreneurial e-commerce.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

Yeah, but you can't play with that part, right? You can play with the buildings and the infrastructure and create that community. But when you get down to running, starting, having a business with successful experts that compound and continue to employ and build economics, farting around with a bunch of founders that have never done a business in their life. Yeah. Because they have a great presentation and they're saying literally, I've been around this space. Well, you know more about it than I. I mean, I I hear it too, though. I can't. I'll sit there and I'll tell I'll tell some of these, these, these uh groups, I'm like, here's my business. And like, well, which series are you on right now? Are you on AA plus? I don't even know what they're talking about half the time. What the hell are you talking about, bro? I need some money and I've got some revenue and I'm driving to the next ceiling, man. Let's freaking go.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

It's like I only like to have one class of stock in anything I get involved with. Period. You can buy in or you can not buy in.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

It's irrelevant, man. You put in or out. Do you want to make a hundred X of your money? Because that's what I think you're supposed to do. I've been here, done it before. Exactly. Why would you not invest? Yeah. Give me the re because it doesn't follow the right procedure. Quit trying to. The worst thing that you could ever do is try to box in and put together a perfect puzzle piece of business. No kidding. It is absolutely a excuse me, war zone. It's chaos.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

It's chaos. And then every once in a while, something like emerges out of the the stuff. Okay. All the shit you've been talking for years. Whoa. And it just like crawls out of the soup.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

And it's like the problem. Oh my god, let's go for that one. That one's working for me.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

It stops breathing water. It starts breathing air, right? Yes. Yeah. And that's the that's what businesses. But see, I but the the the I mean, and again, I I think part of the problem is there's this preoccupation with inventing something new. Not everything has to be new, and it's super risky. Super a new business with something inventing something new and then creating a new business around it, it's the absolute riskiest thing you can do.

SPEAKER_03 23:15

Did Sam Walton create a new No. Did did uh did uh Don Tyson create something new? Did Procter and Gamble create something new? No, no. Everyone's no. I know. The only things that are new are happening in silicon, and we're trying to re-replicate that model is the most dangerous, risky thing you could do. Exactly. That's when right here we have proven success of just being great entrepreneurs.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

But see, that's to me, is why we're doing this podcast, though. That's fair. It's to to to sort of um demystify this stuff and and hammer and beat down these misconceptions that people have about what it takes to build a successful business.

SPEAKER_03 23:59

Yeah. Right? You know, because why why it sucks is because you work with these students all the time.

SPEAKER_04 24:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

Students might have an idea and it could be great, and they have a passion towards the idea, and they have an attitude like they're going to sacrifice their blood, their family, everything under the sun because to go after this vision that they have. Yeah. And then all of a sudden you have somebody come in, uh, you know, have you built your pitch deck? Your pitch deck needs to be at least only 10 pages. And you must only use 30-point font. And you must build a performer. Have you thought about this? Let's have a five-year forecast that's never gonna freaking come true. And make sure you have an executive summary. And then let me introduce you to these investors. Which series are you looking for? Are you looking for pre-pre pre pre pre pre pre seed? Or are you looking for pre seed? Just pre-pre pre seed. Or just pre pre pre pre seed. And you're just like, what you've done is you've taken an entrepreneur and you put them into this complete fabricated program. What's your burn rate? What is your burn rate expectation for the next 17 years? What's my return on investment? You know, what's I mean, dude, like, no. What you need to do as an entrepreneur, we don't like chains. Yeah. No. And what you've done is you've you've crushed the entrepreneur and you've invited founders and professional salespeople. Yeah, and that that's that's it right there. And then that's to me. Here's what makes me upset about Martin. Sure, I got my I've got my feelings hurt about a little bit, just personally, because it's like, dude, what else do I got to do? Do I have to do this 10 more times? I'm gonna be 90 years old by the time I'm like, oh shit, let's invest in him, you know? And then he's got going. You've got a proven track record. No, but it doesn't matter. That's what's so frustrating about it. You would think like, my God, yeah. It's not just me. There's 10 of us around here. No, I can't do it. None of us get anything. No, I think. Oh, by the way, here's the other thing. Yeah. If they want to invest, uh, yeah, I usually only invest about 50,000 in pre-preceed rounds, and that's all the investors we have. It's like, dude, that's not gonna do it. I will freaking spit$50,000 in the game.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

I can go get$50,000 on my frigging discover card. I mean, I don't have to answer that. Exactly. Why would I it's probably like interest free for the first year or some shit. Here's the best thing. 6.99%.

SPEAKER_03 26:17

And here's the best part. In order for you to get my$50,000, I need to see your entire business plan. Yeah. And so now as an entrepreneur, I'm like, bro, like, do you want me to like give you all my trade secrets?

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Like, hell no, baby. It's not even that. That's that's part of it. But the other part of it is the fact that real entrepreneurs in my mind are constantly adapting and reacting to opportunities that come up. We can't, we don't plan every single thing, but what we do is we cast a million hooks in the water. And then the odds are in our favor that we'll be successful. And you keep talking and you keep learning and you keep adapting and evolving. And it you you can't you can't lay it all out like that. No, if you've got to be reactive. The thing is, though, to design an organization that quickly reacts to changes in in the market and opportunities that you spot, right? 100%. You've got to be fast. Yeah. That's my great frustration with so many businesses.

SPEAKER_03 27:19

And it and if you get that capital and you try to divert from the plan, yeah. Oh, God, no, don't do that.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Then you're not a real professional. Okay, we need to get professional managers in here because these entrepreneurs have their heads up their ass. Let's get some professional managers in here to tell them how to do things properly. That's right. That's what I read in a book. It said that we hit a certain stage and the founder needs to go, and then we get the professional managers in, and then they turn into bureaucrats, and then we go down the friggin' toilet.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

Okay. We need professional managers so we can start the flywheel effect. Yeah, exactly. You know, the flywheel, man.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Yeah, bruh. Bruh. You're trying to sound like my 15-year-old just calling me.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

But the worst part about this is that if we overlook in this community, this true entrepreneurship, it's they're missing out. Yeah, well, it's gonna hurt the freaking entire economy. Well, sure it is. Because I mean, like, what are you gonna have? You don't have any more entrepreneurship, or you're you're you're putting a cap on what you have. It's just it's absolutely asinine to me.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Well, it's it's why it's always best if you can just bootstrap it and not get anybody else involved. But the pro problem is that some things are big problems and they take capital to solve. Yeah, it yeah, it's really true.

SPEAKER_03 28:35

What's dawned on me lately, though, this is my breath of fresh air. Okay. Through all this frustration, my epiphany is I invest in my people that are with me. I give them opportunity. Right, those are the ones I want to be exactly benefit from the success of the energy. That they bring to this company every day. If I if they can have if they can multiply their energy, yeah, I don't even need capital.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Well, that's it. I always said, okay, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but it's it's you know, people are like, you know, I've studied management my whole life, okay? And it's like, well, how do I motivate people? I don't want to motivate people. What I want to do is not demotivate people. So many businesses suck that life force out of their people. That's fair because they force them into these constraints and boxes that they shouldn't necessarily be in. You see what I mean? Yeah. And so, yeah, you want to unleash that potential of your people.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

Unleash the creativity. Yes. Don't don't put don't try to get them to obey.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

That's it. It it as soon as you force them to obey, they may do it for a little while, but then they're gonna rebel and they're not gonna want to be treated like that. I'll never forget I hired a kid years ago, he's about a year or two out of school, and he worked for a company where he had to ask to go to the bathroom. No, and this is a guy with a four-year degree in business. I mean, can you imagine treating somebody like that? That's so that's so lawful. I know. Can I go to the bathroom like you're a kindergarten? Exactly. That's terrible. I mean, I think we do a lot of death by meeting, I think death by bureaucracy, yeah, unnecessary reporting, tracking, you know, things. Like you said, not take not taking the friction out of the system for your people. I mean, your job as the leader is to like give them the tools and clear the roadblocks out of the way to get them to be able to do what they can do.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

But yeah, this this whole thing, I mean, you know, I think the problem, truthfully, though, is if you look at like the VC model, okay, it's all based on a lot of failures and a big success. And that's a bad model. I'd rather go with the Warren Buffett approach.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

You know what I mean? Where it's like, let's have like 80% successes. You know? Yeah, because we're not it's a totally different mentality.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

Yeah, and then if you could invest, if you could really invest in real entrepreneurs, proven your risk goes down, risk goes weighted. Yep. Now, of course, you're not gonna be able to have them behold to you as investors. If you're not gonna go, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

You may not know everything they're gonna do or approve of every single thing they're gonna do.

SPEAKER_03 31:38

That's right. Yeah, and that might be part of the tension problem. Oh, it is, yeah, because I would not be like if somebody invested in my company, I'm not gonna be your typical founder who've never done it before. I'm just gonna listen to everything you say. Yeah. Because I actually I should, as the entrepreneur, know more about what the hell's going on.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Exactly. But but you're right, though. I think you deal with people who have the money to invest, they are used to people doing what they want. Okay. That's the they've been doing it a long, and because they have the gold, the golden rule is he or she has the gold rules. So they're used to that compliance, but that compliance is the last thing they really should want out of their companies that they're putting money into. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 32:22

You know, man, and I get it. Like I've uh, you know, I've I'm somewhat of a hybrid these days. You know, I have a little bit to invest in some things, and I've made some mistakes, right? You know, and so I know what it's like to kind of like be a little bit fearful about where I put in place in my life.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

God jokes, I I hear you, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

Um, but you know, I think what I've learned real quickly is that it's really the person that's driving that company. It comes down to that. Do they have the business acumen? Do they have the proven track record? And the motivation and commitment level. Yes. Sacrifice mentality, yes, the freaking, you know. I mean, are these people the ones not sleeping because they're thinking so much and doing so much every day? That's what I want. Yeah, that's all you want right there.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

The little little bit of the crazy. Yeah, well, I mean, nothing gets done by reasonable people. I mean, let's face it. Unreasonable people accomplish great things. That's right, man. So I yeah, I'm totally with you. And it makes a lot of sense to me. And there's just a million reasons we have the problem that we have. And in it, you know, it's it's pop culture, it's the educational system. I mean, I've said this before. If you look at entrepreneurship programs, I don't care what school you want to talk about, the majority of them focus on one thing cold new venture startups.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Pitch competitions, business plan competitions, all the stuff that is not really what the real world is about. That's right. There's very little information out there on buying existing companies, growing through acquisition, finding key people, like what partners do you really want to get in bed with? I mean, there's all the stuff that is really gonna impact your success. Yeah. It's it's just not it's not talked about, it's not taught, it's not emphasized. And then you get out there, and what do we have? We got Shark Tank.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

Yep. Okay. Yep. That's been, yep, that's been completely glorified.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

It's all shark tank. We got sharks out there and they know everything. And yeah, which I don't hat in hand.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

Can you give me some money for my stupid ass fuck freaking business? And then they negotiate about equity, you know, and it's you start out with a contentious relationship right out of the gate. Exactly. Like you know, this is the way I tell this to the team a lot. If you go buy a car for five grand, yeah, the second you write that check, you're excited. Yeah. But when you write that check and you leave that car, you're like, Did I make a good decision? Oh, yeah. And I'm sitting here looking at everything. Buyers remorse, buyers and more cognitive dissidents. But investors immediately, you know, now they're hawkeyeing you, making sure that every step and there's all they're they're just looking for a problem. That you're right. Whereas an entrepreneur, you can't be somebody that's stutter stepping around. You can't be an analysis paralysis. Yes. You know, you have to have a high amount of self-confidence in what you're doing. Yes. You know, I mean, you're gonna have to hear the word no, but you can't have somebody that's got you and that's sitting there trying to give you direction because and having you feel like that if I don't do what they say, they're out, and that's gonna put me in a bad position. Yeah, if I do what they say and I think that they're wrong, I'm in a bad position. Yeah, like that's a very vulnerable state to be in.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

I I think, but I think the the the entrepreneur a lot of times creates their own mess. Okay. I mean, it's like I had a guy ask me the other day, well, how do you adjust it? Where'd you come up with$33 a share? I said, arbitrarily. He goes, Well, is that I mean, how do we know that's the right? I go, if people are buying the stock at$33 a share, it's the right value. How's that? I swear to you, I said that, and you know what the guy did. Yeah. Okay. Because it's I didn't go into any, I I said you could, there's no rational means I could come up with that would justify this valuation, other than the fact that people buy it. People will buy it for that, and that's and if you don't want to pay that, that's fine. We're not gonna sell it to you. That's the other thing, you know?

SPEAKER_03 36:24

It's like you overinflate a lot of those things too much, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Yeah, there's always somebody with someone. We gotta justify it. Yeah, everything is over justification to to the experts. Well, I mean, look, a lot of it, again, uh we've got cultural problems, we've got educational problems, we got societal values problems, all these things are hurting us. Okay. It all it all combines to hamper the entrepreneur from doing what it is that they should be doing, which is out there creating businesses, solving problems, employing people, growing, creating wealth.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

We've allowed the outside. I want to be secure, I want to have no risk, I want to live, I want to, you know, live forever and not get sick and you know, and protect everything that I have, live in air conditioned, yeah. Like escape from the real world problems and the discomfort existence and try to push that on to an entrepreneur, a real entrepreneur that is actually living in a playing field, is playing is playing ball every day.

SPEAKER_05 37:44

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Smart Risk And Playing The Game

SPEAKER_01 37:59

I want to play ball until I am carried out on a freaking stretcher. Okay? I do not want to be a spectator. Yeah, I that's always why I was never a big fan of spectator sports. I always said, I'll be a player. That's I feel the same way.

SPEAKER_03 38:14

It's funny you say that. Like everybody's like, are you going to the game? Like, I don't watch sports. Yeah, I don't go to games now, I know watch it on TV. Like you play sports. Yeah, I mean, I'll play your own sports. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I mean, I love playing football and I mean you never catch me like just sitting around watching. Yeah. You know, because it's just not, you know, I mean, yeah, you want to be in the game. Yeah, I can't spectate, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 38:39

Yeah, you want to be, you want to be in the game. It's the whole, you're right. I mean, but again, it's a cultural value, societal thing, comfort, reduction of risk, such that I, you know, I see these things. How can you retire on two million dollars a year or whatever? You know, and I mean, look, I don't have the most resources in the world. Hell, I've got two ex-wives I support and a current one and five kids. Okay. One of them's going to freaking the French Alps here. You know, it's like, you know what I'm talking about. Okay. I got overhead, dude. My Amex so far, I looked at it this morning, it's$37,000 for the month. And where are we? It's the 22nd of the month. By the end of the day.

SPEAKER_03 39:26

So I got 10 more days. I know.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

By the end of the day, it'll be higher. But but it's like white people like my kids, they go, Well, why do you move every two years? Because I move every two years because I got a chance to make over 500K and I tax free on my own home. And yes, is it inconvenient? Is it risky? Maybe I won't, you know, I buy another house before I sell mine. Oh my God. What if I don't sell my house? I've got two expensive houses simultaneously. That'll be a bitch, right? It'll be a pain in the ass.

SPEAKER_02 39:59

How do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 40:00

I mean, just the worst thing is I'll have to cut my price and I'll make less money on my current house than I would make. I'll still make money on it, though. Don't get me wrong. All right. That's the worst thing that's going to happen to me. Okay. People can't see that though. Like if I went to my sister and I said, my house is going to sell for 2.2 million, and I'm going to buy this one over here and invest half a million in it after I buy it. And then I'm going to put my house on the market. She would be like having a coronary. You're going to do what? What if you can't sell your house? Oh my God, that's terrible. You know, what it's like a short circuit. It's like Barolis sets in. You know? But you do it because it advances your goals. It allows you to live your lifestyle. It's a smart move financially. It costs 18,000 bucks to move. It's a pain in the ass. Whatever. We get to buy new furniture. I buy all new TVs. Okay. I mean, do you sell all your existing furniture? What do you do with all the I don't get I don't buy everything new, but I do buy some. Yeah. When you got as many kids as I do, there's always somebody that wants your furniture to get rid of. That's fair. Okay. I buy all new TVs though. I really every time you move. Every time I move. One brand. One brand. What's the brand? One remote. High sense. It's cheap. I buy them at Walmart. They're great. And I buy high sense sound systems that go with them. So everything works on one remote. I don't need a Roku adapter. I don't need a separate remote for the freaking surround sound. Okay. You can get them up to 100 inches. I got my program. I'm buying 10 new TVs. 10 new TVs for it. Yeah. But I'm just saying, and you know what the cost of this, by the way?$4,900. Yeah. For 10 new TVs. 10 new TVs. And the sound system. TVs are so cheap right now. Yeah. It's mind-boggling. We're going to buy all new gym equipment too. Are you? I'm going to leave that there. Oh, yeah. I'm buying new. But I'm just saying, it's a yeah, it's a risk. You take it, but think about what that does. For us to make a half a million dollars, we're probably at least in a 40% total tax bracket. When you come to the federal taxes and the state, right? You'd have to make uh 800,000 in order to get the five. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Eight if and I don't know about you, but if somebody wants to give me$800,000 every two years, I'm gonna take it. Okay. Exactly. It's just I get$500,000 of that income tax-free. Yeah. If it's your primary residence. Yes. And you're married.

SPEAKER_03 42:47

And you don't have to pay the capital gains.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

No capital gains. As long as you put it back in the new house. No, you don't even have to put it back in a new house.

SPEAKER_03 42:53

You can do it if you kept it, then you'll just you know use it all and right.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

Every two years you can do that. But I'm just saying, again, it's all part of this risk, comfort, discomfort question.

SPEAKER_03 43:06

People don't want to feel like they're putting something at risk.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

They're scared of the risk.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 43:13

They're scared of what might happen because they've been told horror stories.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

Yes. What you always, I think the entrepreneur always has to ask them. Whenever I start getting scared of risk, which I'm not gonna say I haven't ever been. Of course, yeah. I always think to myself, what's the worst thing that's gonna happen? Yeah. What is the very worst thing that could happen to you? Yeah. Well, you move into a rental house somewhere for 2,500 bucks a month and live in a subdivision. Okay, I could do that if I had to. Go mow yards if you need to. Yeah. Freaking pick up track. I wouldn't even have to do that. I mean, you know what I'm saying? I mean, I'm sure I can give enough cash coming in to support like that lifestyle just based on what I make at the university and social security or whatever. It's like What's the worst thing that's gonna happen to you? I don't get to drive Porsches and I drive a friggin' new Kia. They're pretty damn nice. They are pretty damn nice. Okay. Have you driven a Kia like guys? I rent them all the time. I'm like, God, for 22 grand, you can buy this.

SPEAKER_03 44:15

I'll see Kiya's coming home. I'm like, oh, that's a nice rain cover and it pulls up like a Kia?

SPEAKER_01 44:20

I'm like, that's a Kia. I just did that the other day. I'm like, that thing looks like a friggin' BMW. Okay. But I'm just saying, you have to say to yourself, what's the worst thing that's going to happen to me? Right. Okay. And you know, the worst thing that's going to happen is something happens to your kids or your wife. Yeah. And then your own health. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 44:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

Those are the bad things that's the health that are going to be. And it's all about health. It's all about health. It has nothing to do with the money side. So if you can separate yourself from that and realize we live in a great country. Yeah. And you're going to be able to eke out a living if you got any motivation at all. Don't even have to be smart. Okay. You just need to show up and get at it. Yeah. Exactly. So take all that aside. Then your attitude toward rest changes. Okay. Unless you're just so wrapped up on the trappings of success. Yeah. Which I know you're not. Right. And I'm not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:19

Okay. It's contribution.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

Right. Wrapped up in the trappings. The trappings do nothing for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

Yeah. It's it's what you accomplish. That's the only way you really feel good. So all this stuff comes, you know. That again, that's why we're doing this podcast. We're trying to change the way people think. Yeah. Small business owners are probably too risk-averse. Yeah. People out there looking for capital, they're too risk-averse.

SPEAKER_03 45:56

Yeah. Because you're asking for somebody else to flip your bill. Yep. You know, and that is a problem, man. That's a I think that's damaging. I mean, number one, you you're you're overlooking and damaging the existing true entrepreneurial ecosystem. Number two, you could be putting somebody in a very, very bad position. Oh, yeah. You know, that that that could hurt them personally and hurt other people and all this other type of stuff. And it's that's all a high risk scenario from a group of folks that are trying to minimize the risk. Yeah. It doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, somebody proved me wrong. Yeah. You know, but I mean a one out of ten ratio is not really a good idea. And I mean, Silicon Valley's doing it, but I mean or one out of twenty. Yeah. Really? Yeah. But I mean, is that model? I mean, it's it's just hype and it's going on there, but I mean, they have a whole ecosystem. All the banks and everybody well is pouring over there to play that that that gamble.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 46:53

Why would we want to take that kind of gamble on?

Customer Obsession And Final CTA

SPEAKER_01 46:56

Our whole culture and economic environment in this place we're in, it's not based on that at all. As you said, these this is not based on invention, it's based on doing things better. Yep, building a better mousetrap versus inventing a mousetrap. That's right. Yeah, it's it's it's where the opportunity is, and it's so much less risky. I I tell you, and you know, again, I can't tell you, I've seen over a thousand businesses that my students have worked with that just imagine that what you can learn by looking at that. Okay. And you see the same mistakes over and over and over again. Yeah. It's it's no marketing, hiring anybody good, complaining about their people, but doing absolutely nothing for their people. It's just the bad accounting, no bad customer service, bad customer service, and just shaking it off. You know.

SPEAKER_03 47:58

What an entrepreneur knows, like I'll tell you what would make me wig out is if a customer that's paying me, paying our company for value, and we don't return their call, or we don't are prompt and urgent about servicing them if we're not at their beck and call, I think that I will wig out, man.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

I read every review and every comment on social media. 100%. And I want to respond to it accordingly to make them happy.

SPEAKER_03 48:26

When I see somebody leave me a review on Google five stars, I'm just like, it makes my entire day. Of course. I feel so much pride and in the world. That's why you're doing all this. Yeah. And I'm just like, thank you so much for taking the time. Yes. I mean, that means a lot to us. Of course it's our lifeblood of this business. Exactly. But a founder with a pitch deck would probably be, you know, having a razor series 35K. That's what they're worried about. That's not entrepreneurism.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

All right, man. Hey, we gotta end this show. We wigged out a little bit, didn't we? We did, but it was it was fun wigging out, and it's always therapeutic.

SPEAKER_03 49:01

That's the dragon I was looking for on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

Well, next time you gotta warn me. I'll be glad to deliver. You know I will if I I know what I what's needed. I try to deliver. That's fair. All right. Well, hey, everybody. Um, send us your questions. Yeah. Send us your ideas for topics you want us to talk about. Yeah. And and uh it's www.bigalow business. Small business. Small, excuse me, big talk about small business.com. I was telling one of my friends about the show today, and he's like, small talk about big business. I'm like, no, big talk about small business. That's right. Okay, huge difference. Yeah. But uh, but anyway, um, until next week. This has been another great episode of Big Talk About Small Business.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk About Small Business. If you have any questions or ideas for upcoming shows, be sure to head over to our website, www.bigtalkaboutsmallbusiness.com, and click on the Ask the Host button for the chance to have your questions answered on the show. Stay connected with us on LinkedIn at Big Talk About Small Business. And be sure to head over to our website to read articles, browse episodes, and ask questions about upcoming shows.