S4 Ep 7 How Nicole Gray Trains For Marathon Longevity

Nineteen marathons sounds glamorous until you hear what it really takes: 5 a.m. runs before work, hard conversations with yourself at mile 20, and the patience to chase a goal for years. Nicole Gray joins us fresh off Tokyo Marathon to unpack how she went from a struggling first full marathon to earning her Abbott World Marathon Majors Six Star medal and lining up for Boston again. 

We get specific about what actually moves the needle for marathon training and long-term running health: committing to strength training, learning to pace the first 10K, using simple mantras to shut down spirals of self-doubt, and trusting a coach who sees more potential than you feel in the moment. Nicole also shares the less-glamorous craft that separates a good day from a disaster, including running tangents, handling race travel, and building a pre-race routine that makes the start line feel normal. 

Fueling and gear get the honest treatment too. We talk gels, timing, sensitive stomach troubleshooting, when sports drink becomes essential, and why the “pasta dinner” tradition doesn’t work for everyone. If you’re chasing a Boston qualifying time, exploring the World Marathon Majors, or simply trying to run stronger for longer, you’ll leave with practical strategy and a mindset you can use on your very next run. 

If this conversation helps you, subscribe, share it with a running friend, and leave a review so more runners can find the show.

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Setup

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Hello, and welcome back to Over the Next Hill Fitness Podcast. I'm Carla Coffey, your coach and host for today's program. I want to thank everybody who has been following and rating the show, giving me five stars. I appreciate that. It's really helping the podcast get known. If you're uh listening or watching, hello, on YouTube. Uh thanks for doing that. Uh feel free to share this with other people. Um if you're not watching, that's okay. I just got on this uh warm gray jacket keeping me warm. You're not missing anything. Hair's always goofed up, so you know, you're not missing anything by not seeing. Uh today we're gonna be talking to Nicole Gray. Uh we had so much fun. Um the one topic that we didn't get to, and she was kind of uh we both forgot was uh talking about the seven continents in seven days races, and we both agreed that that's just insane. Um, if we were gonna do that race, we definitely would want to um do the seven continents, but see the places rather than just buzz in, run on the tarmac, and buzz out. So uh that is the only thing you missed. We had a really great time though, and I hope that you will enjoy this episode. Hey Nicole, welcome to the show. It's nice to have you here. Hey Carla, thanks for having me. Excited to talk. Great, me too. So let's start at somewhat of the beginning. Um, when and why did you start running?

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Yeah, that's that's an interesting question. I started running in school, I guess, in high in in junior high and high school. I did like, you know, 1500 and 3,000. Um, I'm I'm my background like as a child, I figure skated till I was 18. Like, so I skated, yeah, like five days a week, two to four hours a day. So I've kind of always been used to like fitness and high-level cardio. And once I finished school and I got into university, I was like, wow, I I need to keep this up, like for kind of mental health purposes and just like for fitness. And so in uh 2006, I decided to try and train for my first half marathon, and it was called the hypotherm hypothermic half marathon in Edmonton. And it's in the winter, it's in February, it's like really cold. And my idea was if I could train for a half marathon through the winter and like stick with it, I'd probably like keep doing it and it would be a life thing that I kept up, and it that happened. So I did my first half marathon in 2007, and I've been doing half marathons um ever since. And I did my first full in uh 2010.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Okay. So you um did branch to the next, what they call the next level, right? For a full. And how many full marathons have you done?

SPEAKER_00 3:01

I have done 19 full marathons now. I know, I didn't even know how that happened. Um, in when I did my first one in 2010, I had just had my son in 2009, and I had pretty severe um postpartum depression. And like recovering from having having him was kind of a big thing. And so I really picked up running and I thought, man, if I can have a baby and I can get through some of this struggle I had with postpartum, I can probably run a full marathon. And so that's that's what I did. And then after that, I remember my first full, I did my time was like 429. Like it was, it was a struggle. I was at the end of it, the last 5K, I was like walking, I was like, oh my gosh, this is what did I do this for? And I ran into this guy, um, Peter Neiman, his name is. He's run, I think at this point over a hundred marathons. And but he was very experienced, and so he kind of pulled up next to me and he could tell I was struggling, and he he really helped me get through that last 5k. And uh after that, I was just I just tried to keep improving. Like I was like, I think I can do better. And so I I kept doing them, and somehow now Tokyo, which I just did in March here, was number 19.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Wow, congrats! So um that's one of the world majors, and that was your fifth or sixth?

SPEAKER_00 4:11

That was my sixth. You're um actually my seventh because I've done Boston twice now, but um my sixth in the in the group trying to get that medal.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah, congratulations on that. We kind of hit hit to the the big explosion real quick in like what two minutes.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

So yeah, yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

No, are you gonna go for it's uh Australia and Cape High, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Uh it's Australia and um well, so Australia is number seven. There's two more that are Cape Town is up. Um potentially, it hasn't been um like finally approved. And then they also said that Shanghai is coming up, and so apparently Abbott's saying that they'll have a six-star medal, which I now have, and then they'll have a nine-star medal, which you could also get. Um, I definitely want to do Sydney. I think I'll try and do it in 2027. Uh, but we'll see about the other the other two and how they if they get actually approved and and how the travel is for them. I know I've I've looked at the K at the um route for Cape Town. It's a hard race. Like it is hilly. Is it um yeah, it looks really hard. So I'm like, I don't know. Um yeah, I mean, I feel like so. I'm gonna be I'm doing Boston in in like less than a month here. Uh and so that'll be number 20. And so I I feel like I'm gonna slow down on the fulls for a bit and maybe even focus more on halves and 10K's and then do Sydney in 2027. I just I did a bunch of fulls kind of trying to get into Boston and then trying to finish this. And it just it feels like I need to like get back to the the love of running and less of the deep level training that you have to do when you do multiple full marathons.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

So it sounds like you were averaging what two a year at least?

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Two marathons. Some years, some years it's one, some years it's two. Um, this year, like in the calendar year, um, I did Boston last year on April 21st, which is my birthday. And um, Boston this year is on April 20th. So this calendar year, I will have actually done three uh marathons technically. Wow, I know, which is kind of crazy. Do not recommend. I I think one I think one marathon a year is more than enough, but yes, you know, you do what you do, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Yeah, and you do what your body will let you do, you know. Some people can can't do one, and some people can do four or five, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

So yeah, I've been fortunate. I haven't I haven't ran into knocking on this wood table a lot of major injuries. Um, I I have really good uh uh chiropractor and acupuncture and massage, and I'm pretty religious about keeping up with that um and and stretching and yoga. So I've been pretty lucky, but uh, you know, it you know, you never know. So you just I'm kind of doing it as long as I can and as long as my body will let me.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

I'll keep treating it like a temple. Yeah. Oh, exactly. That's that's the thing you gotta eat, you gotta strength train, and you gotta run.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Right. Yeah, that's actually been a game changer for me is uh the strength training piece. I didn't do it a lot early on, especially let's say in the first like 10 or 12 marathons, I didn't do a ton of strength. I do a bit, but I wasn't like committed about doing it regularly. And in 2023, I started adding um strength more in core, upper body, lower body, making it like I'm gonna do it three days a week for arms. I'm gonna do core seven days a week, I'm gonna do lower body twice a week. And that changed my running. It it absolutely changed it. I became stronger, I became faster, less, less sore, less injured. My my chiropractor was noticing you're not as sore anymore, you're not having this regular thing. So, and she had been off course telling me forever to start doing it. So she knew. Um, it so I I would say to anybody, if you if you really want to do running for longevity, you really have to do strength workouts. It's it's a must.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Yeah, for sure. Now, are you at a place in your running um that you do like a dynamic warm-up before you start your runs?

Qualifying For Boston And Majors

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Um, I don't do like I do a warm-up 100%. Like I have I have things I do for about five minutes before. If I'm doing uh a half marathon or less, I do like I'll actually do a running kind of real dynamic warm-up. For marathons, I do like a stretch and then I'm like, I'll warm up. I got 42k. I'll get there. I don't usually do like a run before a full marathon, but if I'm doing uh a half, I'll probably do like a mile kind of dynamic kind of running warm-up. And and same with the 10K, because a 10K, which I think is actually one of my better distances, but most hated because a 10K, you basically you go like the whole time you're going if you're racing it. And so I I don't love it as much. I like the marathon where you have some time to like get into your pace and enjoy it. Yeah. Um, whereas a 10K, it's like boom. Yeah.

unknown 9:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Same with a 5k. Oh, I don't. I I I can't remember the last time I raced a 5K. That hurts.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Um, so what was the catapult to make you decide you wanted to do, other than having a child and you wanted to do a marathon, but to go into from that into marathons, but then deciding you wanted to do the majors? What was the the stream there?

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Yeah, that's an interesting question. So when I grew up and I started doing marathons, um I had a couple of friends that were around me, um, women that I kind of looked up to and ran with. And um I I'm from the small, smaller town in northern Alberta called Whitecourt, and a bunch of them had done Boston. And a lady that I worked with, her name's Barb, she had also done it. And so, you know, when you get into running and you get to know people in the running community, you start to know people who have done this. And you kind of think about it and you're like, man, one day, maybe when I'm like 60, I'll qualify. Like, seriously, this is what I thought. When I'll like qualify for Boston, it'll be amazing. Because again, remember, I started at like a 429 and I quickly got to four hours. But even from getting from four hours to like the 330 that you need to qualify for Boston, that's that's a long way to go. And so I kind of started chipping away at it, and it didn't become real until about set six or seven marathons in. And I think I got like a 345 or something, and I was like, you know what? I think I could get there. And so Boston became this like goal. It was like a on a hill for me. And every race I did, I was just that's what I was trying to get. I wanted to qualify for Boston. I didn't even know, if I'm gonna be honest with you, about the other majors. I just knew, I just knew about Boston. And so in uh in 2017, I trained really hard and I had I had had a couple near misses, like where I was four minutes off or five minutes off, which is heartbreaking. Um, I I ran in Phoenix. They have a really great race, and it's a little, there's a little bit of a downhill. It's uh the Mesa Marathon, anyways. I ran that and I qualified um with uh 329.20. I still have it in my in my soul. Um it was such a big deal for me. And I I I qualified for Boston, which was insane to me, way sooner than I thought I would. And so I ran Boston in 2018, which is that really bad weather year. And and that's kind of so that it was really examples of people around me. And then I'm a very competitive person with myself. I just I want to I want to beat myself usually when I'm running. Like when we're racing, it's not about me like going out and beating you. I'm like, how can I beat Nicole from yesterday or from last race? Or how can I execute it better? Maybe I can't run a faster time, but is there something in my execution that I can do that's better than the last race? Like, you know, don't stop, don't stop at all. Um, or you know, make sure that I have a positive mindset. Don't let that 20 mile, I feel like I'm so tired and you know, want to vomit come at come up. How do I, how do I push through that, you know? So that's kind of what got me there, I think. And then when I was in Boston, I actually saw people finish the Boston Marathon, terrible weather, that 2018. Remember that cold one? Yeah, yeah. I ran with a poncho the whole race. Like the pictures of I'm wearing a poncho, like in the race. Like it's like a Red Sox poncho. Um, I saw people with the Abbott Marathon medal, the big medal, um, which is I don't I left it at home. I don't have it with me, but um and I thought, man, that's crazy. Who would do that? And it turns out it was me. So then I started to then I was like, I qualified for Chicago with uh a marathon I did uh like right after I did Boston, I did another marathon in my hometown and I qualified for Chicago. So I was like, oh go run Chicago. And then I just kind of the rest of them I got in through lottery and Tokyo I actually did through charity, um, because it was just getting really hard to get in. But uh yeah, that's how I did it. So it kind of evolved over time. It wasn't I didn't set out to do all of these marathons, it just kind of stumbled into them eventually.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

That's that's great. You know, when I um uh I've been running since 2014, I believe. And I ran Boston in 2017.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Oh, okay. So the year before.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Yep, had to qualify and whatever. And everybody thought that year was super hot, and I thought it was perfect.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Um really, yeah. I have friends who did it that year.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Yeah, they I've they were, oh that was the year it was hot, and then there was the year it was cold, and I was like, I don't know, I thought my year was perfect, but um, but same as you, like I hadn't even heard of Boston. I'm like, Boston marathon, what's that? When I first started running, you know, and then you start hearing about all the other things, you know, so it's interesting that you know you just don't know. And no, you don't know.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Yeah, and I didn't realize so. Once I once I was like, okay, I'm going to Boston, I read a couple books about it, and I really got into like the the history and the kind of Boston's such a big deal if you're if you get really into running and even going to that marathon and having done a lot of marathons before, the way people in Boston treat that marathon and the way it's revered, it's it's really different than I think anywhere else. Um, and so I'm I'm glad I got to experience it. I know I told one of my friends when I first got into Boston, I was like, this is my Olympics. Like I just I'm going to the Olympics. Like this is the biggest single achievement I could ever want for my like health and fitness. Um, and it and it's so it's so cool. I got to do it once. I did it last year as well. And uh I'm going this year. Uh I think I my husband says, you know, at a certain point, if you're if you're kind of if you have a good pace with running, you're probably just gonna keep qualifying. Um, but I don't want to take it for granted. Every time I get to go, I'm just so shocked from the girl who started in 2010 and almost didn't finish the marathon to like being in Boston. And and it's a lot of hard work. Like it is, right? You know it, you you've ran it and you run uh you run a lot. It's it is a lot of hard work when nobody's watching, mostly getting up at like five in the morning because you have to go to work and doing these 90-minute runs on a Tuesday. Uh that's that's I think the part about running that I like the most. I think it it helps you as a person. It helps helps build character, it helps me in like my work life, helps me with my kids. It's it teaches you so many things. And that's one of the things I like best about running.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

So that being said, what is one of the uh things that has taught you about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 15:50

I think it's taught me that I'm a lot, I'm a lot stronger than I think that I am. And and it's that self-belief. Like I have a tendency um to be kind of negative about myself. And I I'm always I'm always like worst case scenario, like what if I don't finish? What if I don't get this done? What if I'm not fast enough? But running's taught me like, hey, your record shows that you you will finish and you are fast enough and you can do it. And so I think it's it it teaches me to believe in myself. But it's again, it's all based in the work that I do. Um, so I think that's what I've learned from running, most of all. It's to try and stop the self-doubt, which sometimes comes when I'm running, but I'm I'm getting better at talking myself out of it.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Oh, good 19 marathons in.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

I still I still cry before everyone, seriously. Like I get I get oh, I get so I get so nervous, it's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

My husband's like, how many you've run? Like 19. Why are you crying? And I'm like, it's because I know what's to come is going to be hard.

unknown 16:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Now, do you have a mantra?

Strength Training Changes Everything

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Um, I have a couple. Um, one is you can't stop me. I like music. I listen to a lot of music when I'm running, and there's a song, and anyways, it has you can't stop me. And it's about not stopping yourself. The the only one that can stop me is me. And so I always say that, like, you can't stop me. Like, and as I'm saying it to myself. Um I also uh I also tell myself, like, you're doing this. Not like you can do it, not you will do it, you are doing this. And I I kind of say that repeatedly to myself sometimes in the race when it gets tough. Like, you're doing this, Nicole. This is happening. You're awesome. This is great. And it's it's really those, those positive kind of self-moments. Um, I I I listen, uh, I run with Peloton a lot. I have a I have a treadmill and I I use the app. And I I find so many kind of good little mantras and tricks from some of the instructors that really strick stick with me, and then they come out at the weirdest times. Like I did a run three months ago, and then I'll remember that one of the instructors said this one thing, and it it helps me through the run. So I think people should always try and you know, talk to yourself if you're feeling down and and change the channel.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Yeah, that's a good, that's a good advice. Change the channel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Yeah. Cause it's it's it's your you're yourself, yourself is the only one, the only one that's gonna stop you. Like when my legs are sore, you know, or like, you know, when I feel like I'm tired, I'm like, you're not tired. Legs, you can keep going. Like you have to talk to your body because it will believe you, but you have to believe it yourself, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Yeah, yes. Absolutely. I I had just said that to a client today um that I was with that your mind is very powerful. You know, I said I never go into a race thinking I'm not gonna finish ever. I always am thinking, man, I am gonna crush this. And when I'm coming up on mile 20, because that's kind of where the race starts, right? As we know in the marathon, it starts at mile 20. I'm gonna start passing people because they went out too fast, they got in their heads. Uh, that's not happening to me. I am passing them people. And, you know, so especially I love that. Yeah, I really feel bad sometimes um when I would run a marathon and it'd be hilly. And the young guys have gone out too fast, right? Because they there's all the things.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

They blast off. You're like, where are you going, man? Yeah. We got 40k.

unknown 19:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

So at this particular race, I think it was in Missouri, and we were running. Um, they had part of the um four-lane highway blocked off, and we had lane.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

And it was hilly. Uh, it was either Missouri or Kansas. I'm pretty sure it was Missouri. Um, and there's this young guy, I could see him, he was probably a quarter mile ahead of me. Um and I at this point, I was uh had just I think had just started learning the run walk, um the Jeff Galloway run walk. Yeah. And um I was just practicing that. And so here I am coming along on this highway, you know, and he's starting up another hill and he turns around and looks, and there's no way you could hear me, right? But I go, yep, I'm coming for you. And I was running, you know, and he was walking and he tried to run and he couldn't. And sure enough, I'm like, yeah, I'm passing this guy. And I just, you know, I stayed at my what I was doing, my run walk, and I sure enough, I passed him, you know. And so that is kind of, you know, I am competitive with myself, but I'm also if I can see somebody, I will work as hard as I can to pass them.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Oh, I love I love when people are in front of me in races. Like, if let's say you were in like I don't know, something like you're all in red, and I'm like, that's I'm going. That's you're my person. And it's like I just I use it as like a tractor beam. Like, how do I kind of pull myself in into that person to try and then and then you kind of skip ahead? I love that. Yeah. Um, and it it is true. Like the run walk, I started with run walk. I I don't I straight run now, but run walk is such a great thing, and it works really well. And I was getting like pretty good times. Like I did 145 with a run walk, like in a half marathon. Like it's such a good way to train. Um, now I find it's easier for me to just keep running, like slowing down to the walk I find I find difficult now. But I love, I loved run walk and I I'm big on what you're saying, like the negative split. Um, and I always try and start uh slower. There's I actually say out loud, did it in Tokyo, I'll do it again in Boston. I always say out loud, slow down. Like I'll say it to myself, slow down, slow down. Yeah. Like for the first kind of 10K at least. And sometimes people look at me and I'm like, not you, you do you, you keep going. Yeah, you keep I'll pass you in a little while. You keep going. You go. But I have to say it like out loud because you know how you feel when you start a race and it honestly, any distance, you feel so good in the beginning. Oh, yeah. You're like, oh, I feel amazing. But I'm always, I always try to tell myself, and I I didn't, I did it in Tokyo, future Nicole needs you to not run this fast because she is not gonna be able to run, you know, in the backbit. Uh and and actually, it's kind of a double-edged sword because I'm always trying to go slower. But then there's also the belief in what you can do. So my coach always um gives me these these plans, and I always look at them and I'm like, that's crazy. Uh, who's like, I did you have the wrong client? Like, is this really my my time plan? But he has such a belief in how I can execute it. And so sometimes I feel like I hold back too much. And he's always like, I think you can do more. And and so I'm learning to kind of trust him and lean into that um and just trust it. There's this song um by Pink called Trustful. And I always have that on my race playlist because it reminds me like you have to, you're trusting your training, you're trusting your coach. You just have to just go do it and stop thinking about it. And that was a big thing for me because I feel like I always held back too much. I don't know if you have clients like that where you're like, you can push harder, but there, it's almost like I'm I want to save it. But eventually you gotta let it all go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

And what you're saving it for.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Yeah. It's like, uh, there. like 5k left in the race run. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. That's great. I um am very much like I see some people I have um online. Right. I have some online, but then I have people in person too. And uh especially I do a lot of personal training in person and they'll say what am I doing? And I'm like you you're gonna lift this and like are you are you sure? I'm like yeah I gotcha. You've got this and they're so surprised that they can do it. And I'm like yeah I I knew you could do it. You know so you gotta we I think as a coach we see different aspects of you but also maybe you can't and we're thinking I hope they hope they can you know but and if but if we have that belief in you you believe it too. And usually we're right. There's I've I don't know that I've ever been wrong. I mean I'm sure I've been wrong in a lot of other things but when I put someone up to a certain weight I can tell because I've been watching you for the last three four or five weeks I've been seeing the progression on the reps and whatever you know and it's like yeah I know you can do this. Or like I have one client that I'm like I know um you know she started out fairly slow. I mean she could not even run very far for very long and within you know just a few visits with her and running with her and she's like well I didn't think I could do that that fast.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

I'm like yeah you can do more you know sometimes we're scared you know but having that but yeah you know believing trusting your coach trusting the the process you know they see more than what you see you know they totally do and I I've had a couple different coaches this this last coach um uh we started together I think he was in 2023 or 24 and that's when my running kind of went when I got I started dropping times um significantly he just pulled something out of me that I don't think any other coach had pulled and he he believed pretty aggressively in what I could do it feels like because he was throwing stuff at me and I would I'd look at it and I was like that's insane um and like I don't know I can I can't do that but he told me I can do it so I'm gonna go try. And uh you know normally I could sometimes you know you do the run where it's like the run where it doesn't happen which is happens every training session where you have run right you finish it but it's not like well executed. That's my almost always my favorite run because he saw it he knew I could do it. Maybe I didn't quite do it but I I'll come back. I'll get it like and so now I know that but um so I'm not even afraid of missing. I actually don't mind when you have a workout and you're like I could have done it better because I think it's more valuable for training. I don't know if you think that as a as a trainer but you learn so much from when you don't do things well or you kind of barely get it done um that's useful for races.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Absolutely sure you're learning more about yourself as well. Yeah. Now my favorite thing to teach um my my runners especially is about tangents. Did he any of them teach you how to run a tangent? Not specifically I kind of know how to run tangents did a terrible job in Tokyo but I don't like it when you can't like if you know if the road's set up that you can't like cross the roads and stuff. But yeah that is my and that's my favorite thing. That's how I get ahead a lot because people get so just running with the pack and it's like not me.

Mindset Tools And Racing Smarter

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Watch me and weaving I know like it's I find it uh the best place I've ran a tangent is in Boston. It's actually easier to do because it's on the road because they have the lines and it's like so much easier to follow. Tokyo was not I don't know I don't know what I did. I don't know why I I I basically ran like 28 miles not 26. Oh no so I did this 315 in like I did 28 miles in 315. So apparently I ran a lot faster. But yeah you know Tokyo it kind of has lots of out and backs. No I didn't do that. Yeah it's it's it's actually quite interesting course it's you kind of run out and you you do like three long kind of like I don't know where you go out and you come back. And so it's and you do like hairpin turns to turn around when you're coming back. So it's a bit of a a weird kind of of a course in that way. And so I don't know if it was when I was grabbing the water or what it was but interesting. Live and learn yeah run those tangents that's my no I got to get better at it yeah yeah you don't want the extra miles now of training don't run your tangents races run your tangents 100% no I've that's something I've absolutely got to improve on I actually said that to myself after this race I was like Nicole you do not need to run an extra two miles for the love please yeah so um what was it like for you learning to fuel?

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Because that's always everybody's like oh no what do I do?

SPEAKER_00 27:20

I know fueling was always really strange. I started running in in um Alberta here where I live in Canada with the group uh the running room and the founder of the running room um they have run groups and so that's kind of where I learned a lot about it they do like so you do a run group and you'd run with them on one day during the weekend on the weekends and they'd have little they'd have talks where people came and talked to you. So that's how I kind of learned like hey if you're running for you know over an hour you're probably gonna need to take something and when I started I started with like gummies and found out that didn't work and it it's really been I don't know how long I've been running for like almost 20 years. It's been a long evolution of what my stomach can handle because I have a really sensitive stomach. And so I've discovered over time, you know, I like a gel. I'm really into the Morton ones right now because they I was into certain different brands that had more flavor but I found like it it didn't work out well. But so that's kind of what I'm doing right now. The timing of it always changes because I find when I'm doing a long run I can pull out the time between a gel longer than when I'm racing obviously because I'm running harder. And so my coach really helped me figure that out. He because he I was telling him hey this is the intervals that I take the gels when I train and he's like hey well when you race go down to this and he's he was 100% right. Like um I also find when I'm fueling in a race unlike when I'm running long or running at home I there's a certain point in a race where I always have to add like the Gatorade or like the sports drink because you're just putting out so much more. So usually the last like three to five K I'll also start taking in Gatorade um and obviously water. But I'm I'm a big believer in fuelers some some of my friends run and they don't fuel hardly at all or I bring fuel I'm like please eat this fuel. I don't Erica's not here she she's she's a bad one at that one sometimes but uh uh I I really I really like um the gels and like making sure that I don't feel that lowness because when I first was running I can just thinking back at the first kind of five marathons I would hit that point you know when you're kind of tingly and yeah it's actually too late.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

You're in trouble you can come back but it's gonna be a slow comeback.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

So I tried to figure out over time how to not I don't want to feel that that is not a good feeling to feel and I I figured it out eventually now probably um after about six marathons I kind of knew okay here's what I have to do.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

But it's really it's it's getting ahead of it don't you think oh yeah staying ahead of it the whole time absolutely yeah and it you know six marathons isn't bad to like that it it really if you think about it it only took you six. Some people take some way longer than that. And I don't know if it's so much that they didn't know as much as it is the refusal of acceptance of like oh you know I have to take in fuel they're like no I can run this without I can do it on my own body and it's like no you you really should take something.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Yeah and I had been doing halves before because I did halves for about three years before I did fulls and so but in halves you can kind of fake it a little it I find like you do know what I mean you don't have to be great at fueling to survive a half for sure but you have to be decent at fueling if you want to run a full and feel good and comfortable like you really really have to know what's up. And I always say people always ask me and everyone's body's different but I said you just got to try it. You got to keep doing it every single time you'd run long. That's the whole point of the long run. And also with clothing like I don't run a race in something I haven't run multiple like clothing wise. Yeah I always do short runs long runs in my race outfit a couple of times make sure I know how it fits um shoes is another big one that I'm really getting into now and so I always well right now with marathons they're almost nearly new I probably do like 16 to 20K maybe tops in them before I race.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Yeah and the one thing I always tell um my runners is that uh when you put a shoe on at the store you should immediately it should be comfortable there shouldn't be any like oh I need to break them in or whatever. No put on a different shoe find a different one. I don't care how pretty that one is you know whatever. And if it's the ugly shoe but it feels like a a glove you know or a slipper or you you know like basically you can't feel it get that shoe I don't care how ugly it is you know you I agree do that.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

Yeah I agree and and everyone has a different foot. Like so the the shoes that I wear and the shoes that my friends wear we all have slightly different ones that we like for our running and and that's fine. That's cool. I originally started with a certain kind of shoe then I switched to another one and now I'm back to another one but they're they're comfortable I also always buy my this is this is just me I'm sure everyone doesn't do this I buy my shoes a size bigger than I actually would wear a shoe. So yeah like I wear a seven and a half but all my running shoes are an eight and a half. I used to just find in the beginning I was like you can you can have the odd toenail fall off but it was like a bad situation. And so then I want to size up and it got a lot better.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Yeah. Yeah yeah because your feet swell at the at that distance if you just run in five K's then you probably could have ran in a seven and a half you know easy. But if yeah once you get up past the the half marathon it's you your feet are going to swell almost always by the end. So yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Yeah and and so I I agree with you because people always say well what shoes should I get and I can I was like I can tell you what shoe I wear but you really got to go wear the shoe. You know like we're not we're not all happy we don't all have the same foot. My foot might be narrower than yours my arch might be higher um and it's what you what you're kind of really into. I also run like when I run long I wear a different shoe for like my let's say long runs than I do even for my races. Obviously I have a race shoe it's like lighter more bouncy good for racing. I use those ones for like the tempo kind of speed runs all wear the same kind of kind of shoe um and it it's made it's made a huge difference. I just started doing that in the last like four marathons where I have like a really good speed racing shoe.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

Nice. Yeah that's great. And where did you come up with that idea?

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Well I a couple of friends of mine uh they they had done that as well and then I know a lot of the you know really insanely professional runners usually have you know shoes that they run in and shoes that they race in that are more of a race shoe. And so the the shoe I'm racing in is like um the A6 meta meta speed I think it's called those those ones um they're really really light like really light but they've got a pretty big toe drop and so um a couple of my really good friends um kind of also did that. So I thought I'll try this out and it made a huge difference because sometimes the ones I I like to run a long run in a really good cushion like deep cushion really stable stability which is fine but it's not necessarily the best for like trying to race faster and I am in my trying to get faster era for as long as I can and then I'll then I'll be done that. As long as I can keep getting faster I thought I'd keep trying.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Yeah yeah because those big pillowy ones probably feel like shoeboxes on your feet in like if you're trying to go fast, right? It's it's true.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Yeah they they feel like shoe boxes and they're kind of like when you're when you're like trying to race after a while they all almost feel heavy like the ones that I have they don't weigh anything they feel they feel like nothing that I race in and my other my other running shoes are a bit heavier. So I don't know maybe it's an advantage that I'm raced day my feet feel a lot lighter than usual. Yeah that's great. So what do you have on your docket for sure that you've signed up for um for sure Boston uh coming up here and then nothing actually besides for anything I was playing around yesterday um I might do the half marathon in my in my city here um in August or I might do the 10K I don't know I feel like because I just did Tokyo and Boston they're they're just so big I I don't know yet but usually I do um a marathon and a 10K and a half so um that's kind of like my usual race thing. I love a 10K I think they're super important. So um yeah usually do a marathon then I do a 10K and then I do a half because I feel like doing a 10K after a marathon it's a nice little break from the volume but it helps you get that speed back that really helps you in the half. So that's kind of been my pattern the last few years. So yeah I'll probably find a 10K and and do a half and keep it easy but I don't know why it feels like mentally hard for me to book it right now. Like it's like I I just I can't face it. So I'm like I'll run Boston and then I will book the races.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Yeah worry about it then. Now will that be there in Alberta or will you come to the states for that as well?

Tangents Fueling And Race Gear

SPEAKER_00 35:56

Depends um sometimes I look it up and I find a race um there's been a couple that look really cool in the states that I I have my eye on. It also depends kind of what I'm doing you know in the rest of my life and in the summer here in Alberta we have uh we have a cabin at a lake and so I kind of like to stay around in Alberta in the summertime uh but I like to do halves in the fall so this fall this past fall I actually did my half marathon in uh Porto in Portugal oh yeah I'm going there in December oh yeah okay it's amazing it's so nice and so I did the race it was in September in Porto and it was a half marathon and it was lovely a little congested of the course but a gorgeous course beautiful um really fun and so that was kind of cool so and that was I didn't even decide to go there until probably April April of the year before like right before I went yeah wow I know travel problems getting there that quickly you know what I mean like yeah no I I have a not I I have not a bad time like if I'm going to do a race except for Boston which is like less of a distance to go um I'll usually give myself four or five days to get used to where I am and then I'm good to run. Like Tokyo gave myself seven um and then I was pretty switched over.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

Uh so yeah I might do something in the States uh if you have any good recommendations for tens or halves let me know but I don't unfortunately because I don't usually run those distances but uh I am going to I'm supposed to possibly run a half in May um here in Wisconsin but I haven't uh my friend can't do it and so I'm gonna just buy her bib and and uh transfer what's the big what's the big race in Wisconsin for like halves and zero well I I know the one here in in Madison Wisconsin is is uh pretty well known and very well attended um but uh unfortunately I'm kind of snobbish and won't pay to run a race that I run the all the time.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

Yeah not gonna pay to run on these roads sorry hey that's fair yeah so the one that I am gonna run is quite a bit north of here but yeah yeah I did um I have in my mind I I'm not gonna do it this year but one race I really really want to do it's 16k but there's a race that goes from the Eiffel Tower um to Versailles oh yeah and it's like 16 kilometers I have I desperately want to do that so that's gonna be on on my list of of halves to do. I think that'd be really really cool.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Absolutely yeah that'd be fun. Yeah unfortunately I don't I don't uh have any recommendations for Wisconsin because then we could meet in person person.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Yeah um I'm also looking at I looked at a couple in like there's a race in San Diego that looks cool. There's a a race uh I think Long Beach has one that looks really nice along the beach and flat um because I'd really like to try and get a another PR in that in the half the last time I got one was actually it was a local kind of race um here and uh that was really fun it was a little it was a really small race and I was like it'd be fun to go somewhere I thought I might be able to do it in Porto but it was a little congested so I just could not get my pace going for the first probably 10K so then I was like well this isn't happening. That's fine.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

Now you're just a tourist taking pictures.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Yeah oh it was great. I had such a good time yeah really yeah I had such a good time it was so pretty oh I can't wait for you to go there you're gonna love it. It's really nice.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

I'm excited yeah um so do you have your eyes on like the 50 states challenge or anything like that for marathon and all 50?

SPEAKER_00 39:26

It's so funny I just I I I have I had heard about it before but then I had seen a story I think when I was in Japan about a guy who was doing it and I was like that's fascinating. I don't know if I would I mean I've done a bunch of states I would say just based on some of the races I've done because I've you know I've ran in I did a a racing um outside of Las Vegas I did a marathon out there in Mount Charles Charleston and I've you know ran in Arizona and yeah so I've run a bunch of different ones but I don't know if I would that seems like a lot I'm like do I want to do that many more marathons of course you do I'm so impressed by everyone who does it um I was reading about this guy that I saw he was doing it in in like I don't know a hundred days or 50 days or something he was like a hundred days maybe he was doing like a bunch every it was nuts wow that's yeah that is nuts I was like how how yeah the logistics and the you know like and your body right of doing that many in a row and the money you know that's just that's incredible. Have you done many of the 50 states is that something you're kind of trying to do yeah I I've done all 50 yeah oh my gosh yeah so I just last May was my last one.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

And speaking of um that's so cool. The half uh the San Diego half um I think it's is that one of the women's only races but any the a group um the old ladies running group on Facebook they are meeting there in person so oh cool yeah so um I'm I'm hoping to maybe go do that one they have all the distances 5k 10k all the way up to a marathon so I I'll have a look at that. Yeah you might try the idea and I feel like it's a a women's only but I can't remember off the top of my head but I I also had it in my mind at some point in life.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

I don't know if I still want to do it. I go back and forth I kind of always wanted to do the goofy like in Disney where they do the or like I I've always wanted to do that but then um it would be a different kind of running and that's what I'd have to get my head around because it's not like you're racing the marathon and the half it's more like you're you're just it's it's you're like doing an ultra you know it's it's a different kind of racing. But I think it'd be a cool thing to to do and to see if your body could do.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

I mean obviously obviously it's probably doable it sounds really hard right now yeah yeah um that is another one where um it's probably gonna be a lot like Tokyo like the jet lag because you have to get up at like some insane hour of the morning and they start you know so early in the morning or something.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

Yeah it's crazy. Yeah when I did this race in in Phoenix uh in 2017 I got up at 3 30 because you started running at 6 30 in the morning and um and like kind of on the top of like this like hill or mountain and whatever in uh Phoenix and so yeah I got up at 3 30 when I ran this marathon which was pretty wild. Um yeah it's kind of like New York you have to get up really early and then you have to sit at satin sit on satin Staten Island for a long time until it's your turn to start.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

That's what I heard about that one. And then with Boston be depending on what wave you're in you're running so late in the day you know so you can you know you're starting later.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

But I start at 1041 to this year. And last year I think I started around the same time uh which wasn't bad. Um because of course Boston's two hours ahead of where I live and so that's like 830 in the morning my time which is exactly when I normally run uh you know if I don't have to get up really early. So yeah works out it worked out for me but it is it is a different the fueling thing is what I find interesting about some of these races because when I did New York I don't think I started running until like 1130 or 12, which is weird because like when do you eat breakfast and your body's used to doing this and how do you how do you figure that out? Yeah and you're sitting around so you're gonna have to eat again. Totally it was so weird. It was so weird just like the fueling part of it was honestly probably one of the harder parts in the year I did it ended up being like super humid and I'm so hot.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

When I ran uh Maui I so did Maui for my uh Hawaii steak um was the first time I had ever run in the dark because they had such an early start you had to run in the dark. What time did you start? I don't remember but it was because early you know it was probably I mean it was maybe only six but it was dark you know and I didn't I didn't you know I never read everything that they send you so I didn't have a headlamp. So I just run in with people that had a headlamp, you know and it I feel like the sun came up fairly quickly um so it wasn't you know and there were street lights and whatever but you know just still running that you know in the dark wasn't that was a new thing for me. So you get all these new little things thrown at you sometimes because you don't read or like I would I probably wouldn't have practiced it anyways. Maybe I would have brought a headlamp but I wouldn't have practiced running in the dark you know just like we don't sit around and wait to go run, you know you know you just you get up and you go you know usually sit around eat breakfast wait for two hours eat again wait another 30 minutes and then run you know and that's kind of what you do at Boston I sort of practicing I practice it kind of so if I on my long run days I get up like two hours

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Hours before I run and I eat and I wait. And that's just like my thing. I don't know. I want it to I want race day to feel less weird. So I do that as a matter of training always on long run days, which is kind of a pain because then sometimes it's Sunday and you're getting up at 6 a.m. But whatever. It's fine. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

You're you're ready to be professional.

unknown 45:02

No.

SPEAKER_00 45:03

Go through all the I I guess I just I just wanted to be, I want to make I want to make myself less stressed out on race day. So if it means I have to get up early and practice fueling, that's fine. I also like have figured out over all these races things I can't eat. So before as the race comes up, I cut stuff out. Like I I don't do alcohol before a marathon four to five days. I used to do I used to do two weeks, but then I realized that was unnecessary. And so through process of elimination, I have it down to five days or so. Um I have a problem hard time with dairy, so I start cutting that about a week before. Like there's just certain things that I just cut out of my diet before the race. And I found I'm not good with pasta. So this is the thing. Everybody before race is like car having pasta dinner the day before the race. And when I started, I was like, well, that's what you do. That's what everyone does. And so I did it, and I always would have stomach problems when I it just did not work for me. I don't eat a lot of pasta, like generally.

SPEAKER_02 45:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

So I've discovered that what actually works for me is a steak dinner with the baked potato and vegetables, and that is what I have. So when I was in Japan, I was on the hunt for like, where do I get this normal dinner? Which I found. Um and that's that's what works for my body. Uh, and so that's what I did because the pasta did not work for me.

Travel Races Big Goals Logistics

SPEAKER_01 46:18

Yeah. My very first half um that I did, um, they had a big um pasta dinner for us. Yeah. And I thought, yeah, that's what you do, you eat it. I felt so miserable, just like I felt my legs were so heavy the next day. And so I'm like, oh, I ain't doing that. So now I just eat whatever I eat. I I don't have um uh I have a pretty cast iron stomach, so that's not an issue with me. Um, but I didn't like how heavy I felt, you know, like it was just like blah. So I don't I haven't done it since then, and that was back in like 2014. Um, so but I basically eat whatever, you know, like I'll have a burger or if there's steak available, I would eat, you know, just like my normal meal, chicken, whatever. Exactly. I don't eat pasta in my daily life. You know, once in a while I'll have mac and cheese, you know, but even then it I it's just not a thing that I enjoy, you know.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

So yeah, I don't eat a lot of it either. I and I don't know why either. I like bread. I love bread. I love sourdough. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's my favorite.

unknown 47:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

I had a grilled cheese before we came on and it was so good. It was sourdough. Oh well.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

We're gonna turn this into a food channel. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

Yeah, this is when everyone's gonna be like, what I thought we were talking about running.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Uh so speaking of that, is there anything that I haven't asked you that you would like the people to know about you?

SPEAKER_00 47:37

Um, I'm trying to think. I because I kind of made a few things notes. You know, I guess two one or two things. Um, one thing that I started doing that I think people could consider doing if they actually, if you know, trying to hit a time or hitting a goal is a thing for you. Um, the uh this person that I follow on Instagram and know her a little bit, she started writing, and she's a really excellent runner. She's gonna be running in the pro field in Boston this year, but um, she does mirror goals. And so she writes on her mirror. Um, she'll write, like, here's my goal. And I saw her do it for a couple of races and she's running crazy insane times. And so I thought for Tokyo, I'm gonna write this down. I'm gonna commit to like myself. Um, and I have a pretty cool gym set set up in my basement with like my treadmill, my bikes, and my weights and mirrors. So I wrote on the mirror the time I wanted. I wrote 315 XX because I don't really care about the seconds, like it could be 315, 59. That's great, still 315. Um and so it actually helped because when I was training, I just stared at it and it was looking at me and I was like, I was feeling it. Do you know what I mean? And so, more so than any goal I've ever set for a race, having that goal look at me when I was training for three months was pretty impactful. And I thought about it a lot, and I think it actually helped me get my goal. And so um I've done it again, even though I'm not really sure how this quick turnaround of seven weeks is going to pan out for Boston. And so I just encourage people if you're looking for a way to kind of get connected to a goal that you have, you should like write it down where you can see it and and kind of get to start accepting it, work your brain around with it and make it something that you see all the time. I am going to do that. Thank you for that tip. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, it wasn't ultimately mine. And I think the other thing is is, you know, uh motivation. I was listening to a podcast the other day, um, and they were talking about motivation. And I think people always think like you have to be so motivated to do all these things. But motivation is not, it's not real. Like you become motivated by the work that you do. So no one's just gonna get up and be motivated. It's it's putting the base in, and then the more work you do, the more you're kind of driven to keep doing it. It's like a it's like a little like snowball rolling down a hill. He's a because there's lots of snow here where I am right now. Um, and so I think don't be discouraged if you're not actually feeling motivated. I don't wake up every day training for races feeling super motivated. Some days I'm just like, oh my gosh, okay, I'm getting up. It's five in the morning. This is a here we go. But over time that builds, and then you kind of feel more motivated because you've done the work. So, you know, motivation is great, it's it's there ultimately, but you have to like you have to just build into it.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

I it I never I wouldn't say I ever feel motivated. I think it's more I enjoy running, right? So I would do it for that reason because I enjoy it, but also it's discipline. You just have to have the discipline.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

I agree with you. And it's it's like finding, I think for me, running too, you may have a bad day and you can go for a run and just uh to me, everything just kind of falls away. And and it's so it's so refreshing. And I know a lot of friends some of my friends are like, I don't get this running thing. And maybe it's not running for everybody. Maybe some people it's biking or it's rowing, but I think it's like the the like the movement. Everyone has to have a movement, I think. Everyone to some level could be walking, where you can like just and that's kind of what what running is for me.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

Yeah, and me too. I sometimes I do get jealous when I'm not running and I see people running.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

I know. Oh my gosh, like I'm driving to work and this person's running, and I was like, I wish I was running.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

Yeah, yeah. You know, one time I um was driving in this area and I don't remember why I was on that side of town. I think it was work-related. Um, and there was a path, and I had never run on that path. And I said, I'm coming back to I need to run on that path. And I won't see that like if we're on vacation somewhere, and I'll go, Yes, I could be running on that path right now, or I could be running on that path, you know. So I that that to me is it's not necessarily motivation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

I tell my husband that all the time. I'm like, we should go run there, and we should go run there. He's like, Oh my gosh. You're out of your mind. I often do. Like when we were in Kyoto, I had to do like a couple runs before the race, and we did this beautiful run along this river around 17K. It was glorious. One of my favorite ways to see anywhere I am, whether I'm doing a race or not, is go for a run. It's just so nice to see it at run level.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Totally agree with that. Yeah. Well, do you have any last words of wisdom for the listeners and the watchers if they're watching us on YouTube?

SPEAKER_00 52:15

Um, not really. I think, I think I said it all. Just uh just keep pushing, could keep pushing yourself and be relentless in whatever you're trying to do. Um, it's not always going to be easy, but I think my running journey showed me from where I started to where I am now. I I wasn't naturally amazing at running. I had to work at it, but it's so worth it. And I'm so happy that I kept pushing myself and didn't stop after the first marathon or after the setbacks where I had races that didn't go the way they are. So just keep being relentless and push yourself. I love that.

Final Lessons Thanks And Support

SPEAKER_01 52:46

Yes. Yeah, be relentless. Well, thank you so much, Nicole. It was so great to uh learn about your journey and and uh and hear all your stories. That was so great. I will look forward to maybe you on your ninth uh star. We will do this again.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

That would be fun. It was so nice to meet you. Thanks for inviting me. This is my first podcast that I've ever done, so this is really exciting. Oh well, you're a pro. You're doing great.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Thanks. Thank you. Bye-bye. Okay, bye. See, I didn't lie, did I? That was such a fun episode. We had a really great time, and we did talk about me uh maybe doing the provinces. And apparently there's 10. So that's that's a more marathons for me. So we'll see. We'll see how that rolls. Um, again, thank you so much uh for following, sharing, and rating the program. You can buy me a cup of coffee. Uh there are some other um things in the show notes where you might get some discounts. Uh, if you are uh interested in that, please feel free to check out the show notes. Um and as always, running doesn't get easier, you get better. Have a great one.