What we lose in the Shadows (A father and daughter True Crime Podcast)
What we lose in the Shadows (A father and daughter True Crime Podcast)
Pava Lapere: Gone too soon..
Jason Billingsley, a man who walked free after serving just seven years of a thirty-year sentence for a horrific crime. We dissect the circumstances surrounding his early release, scrutinize the evidence against him, and discuss the gripping implications this has on society as a whole.
Finally, we examine the cracks in the justice system that allowed such a travesty to occur, leading us to question whether a viable third political party could be the answer to these systemic faults. As this episode concludes, we reflect on Swift's power to influence public perception and the justice system's often unjust punishments. An episode that beautifully and boldly intertwines the worlds of pop culture and criminal justice – this is one you don't want to miss.
CNN.com 9/28/23
The Guardian 9/28/23
NBC News 9/28/23
Contact us at: whatweloseintheshadows@gmail.com
Background music by Michael Shuller Music
Good morning and welcome to what we Lose in the Shadows.
Speaker 2:A Father Daughter True Crime Podcast.
Speaker 1:My name is Jamison Keyes.
Speaker 2:I'm Caroline.
Speaker 1:Happy Tuesday, Caroline.
Speaker 2:Hello. So, as you guys may have noticed from my one word introduction, my voice is a little raspy today because I'm getting over a cold. I recommend everyone be very careful because I don't know where I got it from. I was literally healthy until all of a sudden one day last week it just hit me and I was sick for like five days. It was intense.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Yes, but I did want to tell you I thought it was really interesting what's his face. That one football player His name is Travis Taylor Swift is now dating him. She made him famous.
Speaker 1:Travis Kelsey. Yeah, yeah, I saw something yesterday when I was watching football and they're talking about his sales of his jersey and sales of football tickets in general and football football. The viewership is up since that happened. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2:I do think she touches, it's just.
Speaker 1:I mean, I would think that's laughable. Because Is it?
Speaker 2:Well, because the NFL is so widely loved, is it Generally speaking, it is it honestly, is I mean in?
Speaker 1:America. Well, yes, only in America. Only in America, in fact.
Speaker 2:Honestly, because I'm like all of those centers that don't listen in America. They're probably like football like soccer or football like American football, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, so I give them a little bit of latitude, because I think if you invent the sport, you name the sport, and they invented soccer so they can call it football.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, I don't know why we called it football. It just doesn't logically make sense, actually.
Speaker 1:well, I mean did it start with your feet. Well, yeah, you kick off and then you kick no.
Speaker 2:I mean, did it start out like kind of like soccer?
Speaker 1:It started out to be honest with you more like rugby yeah but it makes sense because rugby doesn't have anyways.
Speaker 2:This is getting really deep into etymology, for no reason but I thought it was really interesting that Taylor Swift starts dating this guy and now he's famous everywhere.
Speaker 1:He was pretty famous before, but I will say this. I will say this I've noticed that every commercial now, Exactly Like he was on a few commercials here and there you'd see him right, but he's on literally every commercial.
Speaker 2:He should pay her. It's funny, though, because the reason I bring this up is because there's a TikTok challenge for straight women or women that are in straight relationships. I say that because I'm obviously not, and so I tried it on Bri and it didn't work. So I was like who can I try this on my dad? And so the only other man in my life it besides my puppy, and I was like okay, so let me explain the trend. The trend basically says, if you have a boyfriend and you tell them oh, taylor Swift made that guy famous that they would be like no, joshi didn't, no, she didn't, he was famous before, and so you just did it too.
Speaker 1:Because he was, but not like Taylor Swift In male circles now.
Speaker 2:But not like Taylor Swift. And let's be real.
Speaker 1:There are a lot of women that also watch football.
Speaker 2:There's a few.
Speaker 1:There's millions. To be honest with you.
Speaker 2:Millions. Are there more people that watch football or Taylor Swift across the world?
Speaker 1:Taylor Swift. I choose not to answer that on the grounds that I might lose the argument.
Speaker 2:I know, but it just cracked me up because I was seeing all these things and it was cracking me up because these men were like really upset about it. It was like come on like duh. But then it hit me. I was like they really don't think Taylor Swift is like the big, but she's a household name. I don't know how they don't realize like she's a superstar, like everyone all over the world if they have like connection to internet, know who she is, and so it's funny that they're like no, he was famous too. And it's like they are not on the same level. They were never on the same level, maybe to like some people, but it just cracked me up because I was like I have never heard of that man, never would have either. But I was just it was so funny that these men were getting all pissy. They were like no, he's famous on his own.
Speaker 1:He is famous on his own.
Speaker 2:Not like her, though.
Speaker 1:Well of course not, but I hope he does understand the full ramifications of dating Taylor Swift. He will no doubt have a nasty breakup song written about him at some point in the future.
Speaker 2:I mean, if that's if they don't work out.
Speaker 1:True.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? Damn, see Glass half empty over there. They're still dating, they're not breaking up. And also, I mean it worked so well for her so far, so why not? Why would she not write a breakup song? So, like all the pop stars do, I feel like she gets a bad rep for it.
Speaker 1:She's like you know, I haven't had a hit in a couple of months, I think that is not her accent.
Speaker 2:She has a regular accent.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking I'm gonna start dating someone so I can write a song.
Speaker 2:That's not her accent.
Speaker 1:I know, but I can't do her accent.
Speaker 2:She doesn't even have an accent. I don't think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's Midwestern, isn't she Erin?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess. Anyways, this was a long intro.
Speaker 1:I went to the country just while we're here.
Speaker 2:The country.
Speaker 1:I went to the country hall of fame in Nashville last time I was there and she has like an entire wing devoted to Taylor Swift.
Speaker 2:Of course she does. It was crazy and she's yeah, she did it right, I think, because literally she was like in country. She got into country because I feel like there's not as many country stars compared to pop stars, right, and so she got her way into country and then she was like hard right into pop and now she's a big pop star.
Speaker 1:Do you know who the most famous, most record selling country music star is all the time?
Speaker 2:Country? No, of course not.
Speaker 1:Or you know, it doesn't matter Country pop, whatever.
Speaker 2:Beyonce.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:George Strait.
Speaker 2:I don't know who that is.
Speaker 1:Country star.
Speaker 2:From when From?
Speaker 1:90s till now.
Speaker 2:He's still singing.
Speaker 1:He's older. I think he's getting a check, Okay, I don't think he.
Speaker 2:I've never heard of him.
Speaker 1:George Strait.
Speaker 2:Oh wait, actually he was in a Drake song. Ha ha, ha ha, he was in a Drake song.
Speaker 1:Hysterical. You've heard of George Strait only through a Drake song, that seems. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Anyways, he's singing or not singing. You're not singing. You're telling the story today, so you won't have to listen to too much.
Speaker 1:Well yeah, but I feel like I'm here with a celebrity, because you sound a little like Demi Moore.
Speaker 2:I don't know who that is either Demi Moore was married to Bruce Willis never mind, I don't know who that is either.
Speaker 1:Brut okay.
Speaker 2:Maybe if I saw their faces, because these names are. When you said Demi, I thought you were gonna say Lovato.
Speaker 1:I almost did say Demi Lovato, but I didn't mean to be. I mean, I meant Demi Moore.
Speaker 2:That's funny well.
Speaker 1:It's interesting that you're sick, because the case today you're being sick and I'm hoping you're feeling better. I'm glad that you are feeling better, but I'll tell you something that made me sick, and that's the case we're about to talk about.
Speaker 2:Wow, what a slick intro to that Sigway, baby segway.
Speaker 1:How pro am I now right?
Speaker 2:It was definitely dad-joke-cheesy level.
Speaker 1:Well, I am.
Speaker 2:Today's trigger warnings are rape and murder.
Speaker 1:So, carolyn, we've been talking about different crimes from different periods. The last thing we had was actually solved recently, but it happened years and years and go back in the late 80s. This one is incredibly recent. This one is actually. It happened and everything in the last week or so. Oh wow, today we're gonna be talking about a young lady named Paava LaPair.
Speaker 1:And Paava LaPair, wonderful person. Now, I know I always start off that these victims are always wonderful people, because they actually do tend to be. But this time, last week, last Monday, you and I were talking, as Carolyn and I often talk when she's driving to work, and I was telling her about this story. From that, it was just breaking at that moment. So last Monday, which was September 25th, the body of 26-year-old tech executive was found on the rooftop in her Baltimore luxury apartment. She died of blunt force, trauma and strangulation. Her name was Paava LaPair. Police said she was actually killed on Friday, but authorities didn't actually discover her body for at least three days. What the hell? Well, she was missing and then her friend and her coworkers were saying that they hadn't seen her in quite some time. So then they started looking for her. They started looking in the building, first her apartment. She also had an office in the same building. So when they finally went to the rooftop, they unfortunately found her body.
Speaker 2:That's horrible.
Speaker 1:So when they found the young lady she was on the roof, like I said, and we'll get into some of the forensic information later. But it was just a terrible day, terrible thing to happen. And then when you and I were talking last week they didn't suggest that there was a suspect yet and they didn't say that they had anyone in custody or anything else. So it was kind of scary for the people that live in Baltimore and even the greater DC region, but-.
Speaker 2:Definitely.
Speaker 1:So later on in the week they found the guy Okay, good and they found out that they had been tracking this guy.
Speaker 2:What do you mean?
Speaker 1:They were aware of him, they were aware of the fact that he was dangerous, and that sort of thing. Why? Well, because the fella's name-.
Speaker 2:The fella.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the killer, the murderer's name allegedly okay because he hasn't been convicted yet, but his name is Jason Billingsley. And this guy is not that old but he has a huge already, a long rap sheet. In 2009, he was convicted of a first degree assault charge.
Speaker 2:That's horrible.
Speaker 1:Right and then in 2011, a second degree assault charge 2015,. He was charged with first degree sexual offense.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:And sentenced to 30 years in prison.
Speaker 2:And you already served those.
Speaker 1:He did not. Actually he was part of a program and we'll get into that in a little greater detail, but he was released from prison not 30 years later, but in October of 2022.
Speaker 2:So how many years did he serve? Added up, added up, quick math, quick math.
Speaker 1:Looks like seven. Seven of a 30-year sentence.
Speaker 2:He only serves seven years.
Speaker 1:Right For sexual assault. Yes, and all the it's disgusting, and some of those other things that happened when he, I guess, was a teenager.
Speaker 2:Assaults yeah.
Speaker 1:So Baltimore Police believe that Billingsley is thought to be also responsible for a gruesome crime that happened just a few days before this. They say that he's responsible for an arson and a rape and an attempted murder On September 19th. Actually, he had committed this heinous crime basically on the 800 block of Edmondson Avenue and that's about a mile from where LePair her body was found a few days later. Billingsley is accused of raping and attacking a woman before setting she and her boyfriend on fire. According to the statement and the charging document in the district court of Maryland in Baltimore County throw the whole man away.
Speaker 2:Literally throw the whole man away. What kind of behavior is that? Right, he set them on fire, so apparently he knew them what?
Speaker 1:That's even worse. I've read some reports that maybe he was even working in kind of a maintenance capacity In that building.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's terrifying God.
Speaker 1:So so basically, and and what the police said was that he somehow knew them and he was going there for some illicit, illegal purpose Does that mean they were somehow associated with some kind of a crime thing, drug things, something like that?
Speaker 2:I don't know because we don't know. It could be something else.
Speaker 1:It could be something else, but but they seem to say that they have evidence that he knew that the people he said he was maintenance and apparently, according to one of the survivors he said that they both survived? I think so. Yeah, he kicked in their door, oh duct taped them, bound both she and her boyfriend, or the other man that was in the building and raped the woman and then Set a, cut their throats and set them on fire. That's horrible.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That's really disturbing and that happened, like what two weeks ago.
Speaker 1:This guy is a psychopath.
Speaker 1:Obviously, yeah right, horrible that's, that's disgusting, yeah, and so much so that you know a lot of the people around the country and a lot of people in the city, including the mayor and the governor of the state of Maryland, said why the hell Was this dude out exactly? Basically, billings was. Billingsley was seen in a videotape following LePair on the street as she approached her building. When she Got to her building and, like I said before, she both lived there and worked there the law enforcement officials said that the video shows that he was following in a distance, but that she didn't seem to be aware of his presence. So LePair Saw Billingsley struggling at the front door and you've I have talked about this at your, at your complex right, mm-hmm, and yeah, and this is kind of a human, kind of a weird.
Speaker 1:I'm right, because this guy Walks up to the door and, as she's sitting there or she's around the office or whatever, in this building which is secure, you need a key or a fob or something to get in. And he's seen he's out there like fumbling, like he doesn't have his keys or something like that. This lady, being the kind person that she was walked over, said something to him. They talked through the door and then she lets him in, right.
Speaker 2:Thinking that he was like a neighbor.
Speaker 1:Thinking that he was. Somehow he was in the building, he lost his keys, he didn't have his keys, and so on. The videotape also shows them having quick conversation and then she walks to the elevator and he is seeing falling her to the elevator.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is a really weird thing and me and my girlfriend talk about this all the time because I have definitely been the person like, oh, I should go open the door for them and Bree's like you don't know them, no, do not open the door. And that's just like you naturally wanna do that because you're like, oh, they need the door open. They can't get in, but it's like there's a reason they can't get in.
Speaker 1:Right. You've even seen this in movies. Like different villains or different heroes of a story. They use some sort of theatrical voice. I've seen people pretend that they didn't have the keys. I've seen someone actually in the Taken film Liam Neeson is trying to get him to this building that he doesn't have a key for. But he goes and buys like a handful of groceries right and he has them and someone holds the door open for him. I've done it Absolutely but the weird part about that is you don't know why they're there.
Speaker 2:I know it's crazy, though you don't know if they're in the building.
Speaker 1:Human nature is to most people not this guy, apparently, but most people. Their human nature is to try to help someone, right, so you hold the door open, but that person could be anyone.
Speaker 2:That could, yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:In this case, that person happened to be a murderer, but it could be someone that is trying to get into the building because someone they know lives there, or an ex-spouse lives there, or something. So, honestly, if they need to get in the building, the best way and I would recommend this to anyone who has a security door in the front of their building someone needs in alert their front desk. Don't do it yourself.
Speaker 2:It's crazy, though, because in multiple scenarios, I find myself holding the door open or elevator buttons for people, and it's like how do you not do that? Though that's the bad thing is because if someone's right behind me, they're walking in after me and they live there. You know what I mean. They just go in with you, or even if they don't live there, they just go in with you, and then people will wait by the elevator sometimes the front desk people. They don't care or they're not there, they're doing something else.
Speaker 2:And it's like, and then they just go and they're able to get up to people's apartments.
Speaker 1:But yeah, 99% of the time most people are well-intentioned, they have no nefarious intent for coming into the building, but you just never know, you can't really understand why they're coming in. So I mean, I don't say all to your life or anything like that, but if it's late at night or if they look kind of sketchy, maybe think twice about it.
Speaker 2:Literally. And it's interesting too, because I've been waiting for an Uber downstairs on the couch. I've been alone, it's been late at night and someone will try to open the door and there's like two doors right. So the front door is open so you can get into the little space, so you can call the front desk or you can call up to people's apartments and stuff, and then there's a second door that's locked, always unless you have the fob. They'll literally yell at you through the window. Be like can you open the door? Can you open the door? I'm like literally pretending like I don't hear. I'm like I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I'm like no and it's crazy because it's like then yeah, but then they come in and they give you all mean looks and I'm like whatever, whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, as we said, LePair was actually killed on the rooftop of this building and sources say that Billingsley is in the recording, leaving the building about 40 minutes later.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God.
Speaker 1:And he's also seeing coming out of the stairwell. So he didn't take the elevator down, he came down the stair. He's kind of scrambling to the exit. I think I like the word scurrying better than scrambling simply because he's a rat bastard. So I think I like scurrying better. But according to the statement in the charges, he's also seen wiping his hands on his shores before he leaves the building. Ew. So when they found the young lady on the rooftop, the coroner said that she had been beaten with a brick that was on the roof and there are certain signs that she was also strangled. Wow, just a tear. And she was only partially clothed and we're not gonna drop into that whether or not, it means.
Speaker 1:But just a terrible thing to happen. So let's talk about Paver for a minute. She was a lovely girl and she was well-intentioned. She actually grew up in Arizona. She came to Baltimore, went to Baltimore rather to go to school at John Hopkins and instead of going back home or instead of going to New York or Los Angeles, she loved the Baltimore community and she decided to start a company there in Baltimore and it's called EcoMap and it works. It integrates, basically, and has some AI capabilities and so on, and it interfaces with a lot of different companies, both private companies and also public companies, and it gets information and exchanges information between those things. And some of her clients were like the Aspen Institute, hameda oh wow.
Speaker 1:And it started out with just she and another co-founder and it worked all the way up to about 30 employees. They raised somewhere between $48 million in capital and they were 30 people that worked for the company. They were ever expanding. Everyone that worked for her and everyone in the local community said that she was a wonderful, compassionate person too. She wanted to help bring technology to improve people's lives and was on this rooftop from this just fucking monster. That's horrible. Who should never have been out of jail? Why was he out? So there's a program and what it does in certain instances, when ordered by the court, people that are in jail for long periods of time can compile and start getting together all these points for doing certain things Going to programs, going to therapy sessions and things like that and good behavior. So no trouble starter or anything kind of following the rules and so on and they can actually trade those points in and get years off their sentence. Now this guy was supposed to be in jail for 30 years.
Speaker 1:For sexual assault, for the sexual assault charge and the assault charges, so how he only served seven.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's disgusting.
Speaker 1:So the district attorney the state's district attorney for the city of Baltimore was talking about this and he was catching some heat. Why the hell was this guy out? And he's actually a new to the position in the last year or so.
Speaker 2:So it was the person before him.
Speaker 1:So it was the person before him, and the governor is new too, so it wasn't really the governor's fault either.
Speaker 2:So why would the governor be at fault?
Speaker 1:Well, because you create these points and then the district attorney sends them to the governor's office for his signature, so the sentence could be commuted.
Speaker 2:Mm-mm, so they have to approve. Well, but my thing is is that the program itself like okay, but how many points did he get to be able to only serve less than half of his sentence? Like that's ridiculous. And it's also like there should be like a few people, like a few different types of like petty crimes that can be done that way, but like, honestly, anything violent, I just I don't even think there should be a probation on Like they're violent.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of horse trading that goes on when people are sentenced. Okay, so if you don't make the state go through a lengthy, complicated, expensive trial and you can plea, bargain, right. Right. So let's say the total sentence was 30 years. But they may have something whereby they say, if you plead guilty, we'll go knock it down to a conditional 14 year sentence as opposed to 30, but you have to meet these criteria A, b and C.
Speaker 2:That's horrible.
Speaker 1:And then compounding. That is this thing where you accumulate these points and that they can take time off that. So the 30 became 14, the 14 became seven, because he seemed to follow the rules. Now I'm with you. I think there are certain crimes assault, rape, murder obviously Sexual assault. Sexual assault. Anything violent, anything violent, right, I mean. So there can be times Like if you're at someplace and you're aggressively being pursued, or something like that.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a little different.
Speaker 1:Right. But there can be, you know, extenuating circumstances, like if you're at somewhere and you feel like you're in danger and you strike someone and let's say it's really just horrendously unfortunate, the person falls down and they hit their head and they die. So technically speaking, that's manslaughter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's manslaughter.
Speaker 1:And, but the person was only defending themselves, so it's really kind of incumbent of the jury too make sure that they make the right decision there.
Speaker 2:I mean that and also I feel like, okay, self-defense should be its own separate kind of category under violent crimes compared to sexual assault. You never sexually assault someone by accident. Yeah, by self-defense it's impossible.
Speaker 1:Like what the hell Right? So there are some kind of crimes that I think should be exempt, and I saw a young reporter that was talking to the governor and the governor was outraged by this. The mayor of Baltimore was outraged by this. Everyone was saying the same thing.
Speaker 2:This guy should never have been out.
Speaker 1:And, of course, when they started catching some heat from that, they were quick to explain that it wasn't them. It wasn't them, so in this case, it was the former governor and the former DA that approved this deal.
Speaker 2:That approved him to get out of jail. Correct, that's so unfortunate, I mean, it's just. I mean I am all for these types of programs that help people get out of prison if they deserve to. This man obviously never deserved to, because anyone who commits violent, especially sexually violent crimes does not deserve to get out of jail before their sentence is up, or even after, in my opinion. But that's just me, so yeah because, okay.
Speaker 1:So this program was developed to do just that Right, to give a second chance to someone that maybe that was rehabilitated, that was rehabilitated and made a horrible mistake or was part of an accident or something like that, that you can give them some latitude and not make them spend the best part of their life in jail.
Speaker 2:Or even like a horrible mistake, as in like drunk driving. I can. You know that's a tough one. I get that.
Speaker 1:Me too.
Speaker 2:But you know when we're talking about. I feel like this kind of program is something that should be used for people stealing bread because they're hungry and I know that probably doesn't happen all that often, as you know. We talk about it in a sense, but like petty crimes, small little things, stealing little fucking pencils or something. You know what I mean, like people that are smoking marijuana, like something that's like so victimless.
Speaker 2:I get that. I understand that because, honestly, should people who smoke marijuana and get caught three times be in jail for 15 years? No, should they be in jail for a few years? Personally, I don't think so. But if that's the law, okay If they wanna go to, or if they are sent to jail for a year or whatever. But it's like, how does someone this is my thing with the justice system that just blows my mind. It's like how is someone who gets caught smoking marijuana a few times goes away for longer than someone who is caught at attempted murder? It's disgusting.
Speaker 2:And it's like these violent criminals. They just they don't need help with these programs.
Speaker 1:Well, so that's interesting too, because if you take any good program, okay, any program that has merit, and if you try to apply it across the board, generally speaking, just to you know, make yourself more electable or something like that, to seem like you're you know, hey, I'm just one of the people right Then I think you really run the risk of letting this happen.
Speaker 2:I mean it's yeah, exactly, and that's I mean that brings up a whole thing that we could discuss about, like categorizing specific crimes. Like literally, we could categorize people as violent, nonviolent. We could categorize people as you know, petty theft or, you know, small drug use compared to, like, people who were, like, selling to children. That's different, you know what I mean. Like it's like you have to have someone kind of go through and look and analyze all these cases and that you know I'm being a visionary today. I don't know why, but that could create jobs. You know what I mean. Like that's a job right there, someone who has like a strong ethical, you know, moral compass and someone who can follow like instructions set by someone. Like, okay, look for these type of people that are good for this program and don't just blanket it over violent criminals who are going to go out and hurt more people in the community. I mean it's so sad.
Speaker 1:Right, but we've seen this over and over and over again in the cases. The case from last week, where this person got out of jail early and went back and, within three months of being, you know, let out of jail, killed someone.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, and then raped someone. I mean just oh, but see, that's the thing. I just, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I think you can do something that is so bad right Rape, terrible assault, murder, things like that. I think there are some crimes that are so heinous that they shouldn't be reduced. No, never Bargained or anything else, right, they should just be. You did this. You're going to jail for 30 years. I agree. No possibility of getting out of earlier, no, you know, and that sort of thing. And that's what I saw a reporter that she was talking to, I think it was the governor and you're saying Westmore.
Speaker 1:Westmore right, and I believe she was saying well, would you sponsor legislation that would you know, tighten up these little loopholes that seem to be used? And he wouldn't commit to it right.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a politician answer.
Speaker 1:That's a political answer.
Speaker 2:They're like they have to go ask their staff like can I commit to this?
Speaker 1:How does this poll?
Speaker 2:you know, I don't know that, but also, like I swear the staffers work really hard under those politicians cause they know everything that there is to know about. Like are they? Can they say yes on this bill? If they do, what is the outcome? What's the several outcomes that could happen? What's another bill that they want to? You know, introduce that someone else will vote no for. It's just such a complicated web and it's politics is tough. Well, it's. It's irritating.
Speaker 1:It's really irritating, and having political courage is very unusual.
Speaker 2:It is, and it often gets you displaced.
Speaker 1:Well, you know what I think if I were in that position? I'd like to think that that if I were in that position and I was put in the point of making a hard decision or being electable again, I would hope that I would choose the hard decision.
Speaker 2:You know who did that actually recently, which was surprising Mitt Romney.
Speaker 1:Mitt Romney.
Speaker 2:Yeah he. He voted against something that, like everyone else was, and that was like a big like thing, and now they're saying he's not going to be get reelected anymore.
Speaker 1:Actually I think he said he's not running.
Speaker 2:Oh, he's not running anymore. Yeah, he doesn't want to waste his money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's. That's when they get courageous when they're when they're short timers.
Speaker 2:Oh, so he said that before.
Speaker 1:Well, he's always been, fairly, he's been a Republican, but a fairly progressive Republican, so he's he's voted away from the party A few times, more than a few times, yeah, so, and I wish there was a better system, you know not just viable.
Speaker 2:I wish there was a better system too.
Speaker 1:I wish there was a third political party that was actually viable, that could actually run for the presidency.
Speaker 2:I wish there were 12.
Speaker 1:That gets a little untenable, doesn't it? No?
Speaker 2:but other countries have 12, germany, france, like they have tons, and it's like that way it's not so stark, like you vote this way or you vote this way and that's it. It's like, no, actually there's tons of different political parties. Also, I'm not a poli sci person. Okay, so I, I did minor in it, but that's it. I am not, you know, politically. I don't know all about politics. So I will say this is coming from my point of view.
Speaker 2:I don't know if this is actually, you know, attainable at this moment but, I'm saying it seems like other countries have it down and like I feel, like the two main things, it's just not working for us because it's so intensely saturated on both sides it's very tense and it's like there are more options just than just these two.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:Most people I feel like are more like open minded.
Speaker 1:So hopefully some good will come out of this. Hopefully they'll kind of tighten up regulations and rules to make sure this thing, this sort of thing, doesn't happen again. Because this awful, monstrous SOB is alive and whether he's in jail for 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, the rest of his life, he's still alive. And he took from this country and that community someone that was trying to do good things and trying to reach out to people and exchanging information and making things easier for people. So in terms of her life, which was so much more valuable because of what she was trying to put forward, and now she's gone.
Speaker 2:All because he was A sociopath. I mean that and like my thing is is, with these cases, it's always like so shocking that like these horrible people will do this because of like a moment of sexual gratification, like you wanted to rape someone and so you literally stole this woman's life and even if she had survived, like you still stole a part of her. You know what I mean. They call like sexual assault victims, like survivors for a reason, because oftentimes, like it is, it's difficult to deal with that going forward for the rest of your life, like it will always come up and it's just like I'm so disgusted.
Speaker 1:Disturbing.
Speaker 2:Pissing men away forever, please. Hopefully they will now though.
Speaker 1:I think they will, and I hope they will because-. I certainly hope so yeah because you know Miss LePair was, you know she was special, she was smart, she was gifted, she was giving, she loved the community, she was. Forbes recognized her as 30 under 30. So she had a great promising future. I saw an interview with her father, who was gracious in himself, and he thanked the police for working so quickly Wow To bring this person back.
Speaker 2:That's impressive, that he was able to think about that.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and it's a long speech and I won't even try to get into it because he says some really you know sad stuff that I'll burst into tears here in a second. But he was gracious and he did say something. He said that her, what she was able to do and reach out to the community, reach out to younger people, will live long beyond you know, beyond her life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, and even the police here, they were following this guy, right, yeah, they were following this guy because they thought he had something to do with this horrendous crime.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh right, because that happened earlier, before her, a couple of days later, a couple of days earlier, oh wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 19th, and she was, you know, found.
Speaker 2:Was it in the same?
Speaker 1:city. It was less than a mile away from.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you said, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:So they were following this guy. They said they were following this guy and they said they were within 88 meters of it at one point. And then somehow he alluded them right and they didn't release the information to the public that they were looking for him, because I guess they didn't want him to run. But you know, that is suspect too. I mean they should yeah, if they had a pretty good idea roll the dice, pick this guy up and had they done that? She would have been alive as well.
Speaker 2:They probably were tracking him, trying to get like physical evidence that wasn't like circumstantial. Right right, right. So unfortunate, that is so sad.
Speaker 1:But he has been picked up and he is, you know, behind bars now, right, Right and even that aspect was unsatisfying to me because he was caught trying to board a train in Bowie, Maryland.
Speaker 2:What a coward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but he didn't put up any. He was, you know, he didn't put up any sort of a fight and that sort of thing in terms of being arrested right.
Speaker 2:Good, I would hate to have more people hurt over him. Right, yeah, you know what you did. Shut up, get in the car like disgusting.
Speaker 1:Right Now. Just one little caveat. Now all this is, you know, he hasn't been convicted, so all these crimes are alleged. But they have a pretty darn good idea and a pretty nice amount of evidence.
Speaker 2:They don't often pick people up like that if they're not sure, especially with CCTV as well, yeah, and you said physical evidence. Yeah, that's gonna be like pretty. I'm sure they're pretty certain because they don't wanna like charge someone. Has he been charged yet?
Speaker 1:He's been charged.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, they don't wanna charge someone without you know being able to pursue it, because if you try once, you can try again, right? So I'm sure he's.
Speaker 1:He's being charged with rape, attempted murder.
Speaker 2:Right. And then murder so I hope he goes away forever.
Speaker 1:I don't know if Maryland has the death penalty. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know. But he would certainly be the death penalty is something else, but I hope he's at least behind bars, unable to hurt people forever Right absolutely. I mean, although he could hurt people behind bars, but that's a separate situation, that's a whole other discussion. Then maybe we'll have another time.
Speaker 1:Yes, but rest assured that we'll be keeping track of this and when the trial comes up, I hope they do a lot of media work to let everyone know what's going on. But yeah, hopefully, like you said, they put this guy away forever and he never sees the light of day again.
Speaker 2:Literally so disgusting. But yeah, I mean, I think one big thing that we wanna emphasize from this episode and that I need to do better about is it's okay to seem rude or standoffish to people that you don't know because you're trying to be safe and because you're trying to keep other people safe. Like, don't open the door for people if you don't know them in the middle of the night, when there's no security around. Don't do that Because you're putting yourself and others at risk and that's like you don't wanna do that. It's not worth it.
Speaker 2:Just to seem like a nice person, and I understand that it's tough to be put in that situation. But I think, as women and some just like gentler people that want to be kind and nice, we wanna help others. We wanna take the burdens off of them. Like, oh, let me open the door for you, and you know what I mean. We don't want you to have to wait out in the cold, but, like, sometimes people need to prove why they're there with a key fob, or with someone a visitor coming to get them.
Speaker 1:Right. So be kind, but be smart.
Speaker 2:Be kind, be safe, watch out for you, Watch out for your friends, your loved ones, cause it's a scary world it is. Thank you so much for listening. Follow the show on whatever streaming site you're listening on.
Speaker 1:And remember. All of the source material will be available in the show notes.
Speaker 2:And follow us on Instagram at what we lose in the shadows and let us know if you wanna hear a specific case.
Speaker 1:Or if you just wanna give us some feedback.
Speaker 2:Okay, join us in the shadows next Tuesday. Bye.
