What we lose in the Shadows (A father and daughter True Crime Podcast)
What we lose in the Shadows (A father and daughter True Crime Podcast)
Yorkshire Ripper
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Ready to venture into the chilling narrative of one of England's darkest chapters? We promise to unmask the horrifying tale of Peter Sutcliffe, the notorious murderer who unleashed terror on the women of Leeds in the late 1970s. We'll journey together through the harrowing accounts of his victims, most of whom were just seeking a ride home at the end of their day. Hear how the practice of hitchhiking turned into a deadly snare and how the media and the police, blinded by stereotypes and bias, failed to recognize the lethal patterns in his attacks.
As we conclude this chilling saga, we'll turn the spotlight on the broader societal issues that the Sutcliffe case painfully illuminates. Listen as we expose the deep-rooted sexism within the justice system and society, which perpetuates fear and insecurity among women. We'll share the heartbreaking story of Marcella Claxton, a survivor of Sutcliffe's brutal attack, only to face skepticism from the very people meant to protect her. We assure you that this conversation is not just about recounting a horrifying tale, it’s a commitment to advocate for the safety and dignity of all women.
The Mirror "What happened to Marcell Claxton?" 10-2-2023
BBC.com 11-20-2020
BBC.com.uk "Yorkshire Ripper death: Force apology over victim descriptions" 11-13-2020
Contact us at: whatweloseintheshadows@gmail.com
Background music by Michael Shuller Music
Good morning and welcome to what we Lose in the Shadows.
Speaker 2A Father Daughter True Crime Podcast.
Speaker 1My name is Jameson Keyes.
Speaker 2I'm Caroline.
Speaker 1Happy Tuesday everyone. Good morning Caroline. How are you?
Speaker 2Good, how are you?
Speaker 1I am very good today. I was closing in on Halloween.
Speaker 2Yes, very true. I'm excited to dress up.
Speaker 1Caroline. Actually she needed some apparatus for her costume, so we were trying to find a little pretend, little bonero.
Speaker 2Bonero. Yes, I'm going to be cupid.
Speaker 1She was crestfallen now when she fired the tiny little thing with a suction cup and it, you know, wouldn't stick to anything.
Speaker 2I know I thought it would, but it didn't. That's okay. It's all for the facade of the costume.
Speaker 1Absolutely. You had a request to be the Khaleesi.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, my girlfriend is going as Jon Snow. I say going as if it's like out trick or treating, but really it's like to little events or whatever. But yeah, she wanted me to be Khaleesi or Daenerys and I was like I don't want to wear the petticoats. So now we're going as Jon Snow and cupid.
Speaker 1Very nice, that's quite a couple.
Speaker 2It's cohesive right.
Speaker 1I'm going to be the old man falling asleep in his recliner again this year.
Speaker 2I feel like you need new slippers for that costume.
Speaker 1You just bought me some slippers last year.
Speaker 2Oh, okay, good, Because I was thinking. I imagined your slippers in my head as like those old ones you had, and I'm like those old ones have had enough. No, I am fine.
Speaker 1So yeah, we have some new international listeners, and I'm going to try forgive me if I mispronounce this, but from Burgum in Freischland, germany, and Framing in Myrtlebach, which is in France. So Guten Tag and bonjour to all of you and thank you very much for listening.
Speaker 2That's so funny. That was sweet, though. Thank you. So our next worker warnings today are sexual assault, kidnapping and murder. Our story takes place in England this week, mostly in Leeds to be specific. In 1976, a man named Peter Sutcliffe was terrorizing the women in the area, especially those who were sex workers or looking for a ride home in the form of hitchhiking. Now I want to emphasize that this was much more normal back then than it is now. For sure you say it like you did it.
Speaker 1Maybe once.
Speaker 2But remember, there was no Uber or ride share apps back then, of course not. They didn't even have cell phones, and taxis were expensive and hard to get if you weren't downtown.
Speaker 1And they wouldn't pick you up just anywhere If you're standing in the street in New York City or someplace. Yeah, their taxis was in Bob, but rural America or small town America.
Speaker 2Well, this is England.
Speaker 1Well, if you're in London, yes, sure, but if you're in Leeds, I don't know. This is.
Speaker 2Leeds? Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah, so it was. Just. It was uncommon to be able to just find, you know, a certified taxi, so a lot of people relied on hitchhiking to get around and to get home at the end of the night. However, let this story be a cautionary tale to never get a ride home from a stranger. The first woman who was attacked was named Wilma McCann. It was October 30th 1975. Wilma was out drinking at the local pubs when she decided it was time to go home. She was looking for a ride when Peter Sutcliffe pulled up just in time. He took her almost all the way home, then decided to attack her on the field next to her house. He beat her to death with a hammer and a knife.
Speaker 1Yikes.
Speaker 2She was only 100 yards away from her home with her four children.
Speaker 1Hard breaking.
Speaker 2In January of the next year, 1976, emily Jackson was attacked and murdered. Emily and her husband were struggling financially and they decided that she could earn the most by sex work. She was soliciting by the side of the street one night and Peter approached her in his car. He pretended his car wasn't working. Once she got in and she offered to help, she bent down under the hood and that's when he attacked her with a hammer, and then he dragged her body into the yard next door and stabbed her 52 times with a screwdriver.
Speaker 2Emily's son explained to the news that his mother was the most wonderful woman and would help anyone who needed it. Moving on to Marcella Claxton, it was April of 1976 and she went to a party one night and was trying to figure out how to get home after Peter came up and offered to give her a ride, and she got in. He attacked her brutally with a hammer and left her body near a bunch of brush. The following year, in February of 1977, peter attacked another woman. He picked up Irene Richardson, near where he had picked up Emily just the year before. She was also working as a sex worker. He attacked her. She was found the next morning by a jogger.
Speaker 2Two months later, in April of 1977, peter killed another innocent life. Patricia Atkinson, or, as her friends called her, tina, was working as a sex worker in Manningham. She had been out drinking at a pub, similar to some of the other victims, and Peter offered her a ride home. She invited him inside of her flat and he followed her in before producing a claw hammer and bludgeoning her to death inside of her own flat. Geez, I know he's horrible, obviously, but this just gets crazier and crazier.
Speaker 1Had they picked up a pattern, yet had the police said we have a problem here.
Speaker 2I don't know, back in the 1970s, late 70s, I feel like maybe. But also because it was sex workers mostly, although a few of them like two of them so far, just were not involved with sex work at all, but they were just attacked. I'm not sure if they were paying much attention because it was sex workers, because even now, in 2023, oftentimes sex workers who go missing are overlooked or people don't report them missing because they're not looking out for them or they don't trust the police, the people that are around them.
Speaker 2So it's complicated, but I don't think at this point because it's only been a year and a half. The next murder happened only a short two months later, in June of 1977. So you're seeing him accelerating right, Right. It's getting really short in between the times that he is attacking. Jane McDonald was a 16-year-old girl. She went out dancing with her friends and Pinoosh stalked her home and attacked her with a hammer. She was left on a playground, which is also super fucked up.
Speaker 1What is this guy's problem? Were they displayed in any way? He just leaves one in the field next to the house. He leaves one in her apartment. This lady on a playground, that's.
Speaker 2I mean, this is a 16-year-old girl too. And it's just really crazy because it's like I don't know. I mean it's not that I'm expecting like thoughtfulness from like a serial killer, but like it just like goes to show how layered like his depravity was that he would like leave her there for a child to find.
Speaker 1Oh right, the kids. Yeah right, kids are walking to school. They're out for, yeah, it's just I mean the whole thing is horrible, but anyways.
Speaker 2So Jane McDonald, she was not a sex worker, which caused the media to actually pay attention to this one and to these like and kind of like, connect the dots with these other murders. And it's really sad, like we mentioned, that they weren't following very closely until a woman who you know wasn't a sex worker even though Marcella was also not a sex worker but they didn't really seem to pay attention to her because she was a black woman. The next woman to fall victim to Peter Sutcliffe was Jean Jordan. She was a 20 year old, retired sex worker and she had stopped working in sex work.
Speaker 2I was a mother of two and she had a husband. She left the house for a pack of cigarettes in October 1977. Her husband believes that Sutcliffe offered her from chafe some change for something to break a bill and then a ride. So she got in and she was never seen alive again. Wow, as she was walking away from him, he attacked her with a hammer. Just then headlights came into view and he got spooked and he hurried away from the crime scene. But he left the five pound note with her body and the police later used this in their investigation.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2So at this point, like now, the police are like kind of paying more attention. The next known attack and I say known attack because we don't really know, you know, like this, these are the the crimes that he has been charged with and most of them that he's admitted to at this point. But the next known one was in January, in 1978. Her name was Yvonne Pearson and she was 21. She was working as a sex worker. She hired a babysitter for her young children ages two. In five months Peter picked her up and took her to a remote area where he killed her again. A car scared him so he hit her body under an abandoned couch in the brush. She wasn't found for two months.
Speaker 2Just ten days after killing Yvonne, peter struck again. He killed Helen Ritka in January 1978. She was only 18 years old when Peter struck her in the back of the head with a hammer. She also had a twin who was involved with sex work as she was to him. The two had just begun working in sex work a few weeks before her murder. In May the same year, 1978, vera Millward was murdered by Peter. She was 40 years old and had seven children. She was also a sex worker in the area of Manchester. Peter drove her to the hospital waste area which was an odd choice and Killed her there with a hammer. He dragged her on top of a pile of trash where he mutilated her body. He covered her with her coat and left her shoes, one next to the other, on top of her. Yikes, very strange, the hospital workers found her the next morning.
Speaker 1That's really a breaking of his pattern.
Speaker 2In terms of the mutilation, yeah, his depravity is getting more and more exactly, and Some of these have had like sexual assaults with them, but they weren't really like expanded upon, or some of them didn't mention it, but I know some of them did have it. I just couldn't tell like which ones had which, so I'm sticking to the facts. But also, he did lay someone else's jacket over top of her, but I couldn't figure out which. It said that there were two in one article, but I know one was her but one was someone else.
Speaker 2That I didn't mention him, so he's. He's had like two weird instances of like laying her jacket over her, which I think is interesting because it almost like it's like a blanket, you know, but it's like sometimes, when people like take care of the bodies that they kill, it's like showing that like they feel guilty, which is interesting.
Speaker 1Is it that, or is he just trying to cover it up for a little bit more time?
Speaker 2I mean, I mean, it was just a lower half of her body. Strange is very strange. Yeah. The next year, in April 1979, 19 year old Josephine Whitaker was murdered. She was walking home from her grandparents house in Halifax. She didn't want to stay the night because she had work early in the morning. She was 300 feet from her home when Peter struck her with a hammer.
Speaker 1Well, this dude is brazen.
Speaker 2Yeah, he's horrible, he's literally I mean.
Speaker 1Well, I mean already, this dude has your drawing similarities to Jack the Ripper, mm-hmm, but he's he. His body count at this point is so much higher. I think there were maybe four or five Chronicle murders from Jack the Ripper that we know of right, and we also discussed the fact that he could have gone different places.
Speaker 2And it could have been H H Holmes.
Speaker 1It could have been H H Holmes, it could have been a lot of people, but at the same time. But yeah, he is actually. You know he's striking more often and becoming much more brazen in terms of where he's doing it. Why don't he's doing it?
Speaker 2and the fact that he's doing these terrible things so close to their homes is doubly it's interesting because I feel like when this was happening, people were probably like, oh, it's just like sex workers that are getting, like you know, killed. But it's just like, no, it's not. And even if it was, like, obviously he has no respect for women, right? So it doesn't matter if she's a sex worker or not. Like you know, you're still not supposed to murder anybody, right, right, right, it's horrible and it's also scary the fact that, like she was so close to home that was like the second one, I think that was like so close to her home, right, and it's just scary to think that, like, you can see your house and like Feel like you're safe, like, oh, I'm right here, and still, you know, not be safe and it maybe Let your guard down at that point, right.
Serial Killer Strikes in 1979
Speaker 2Yeah, you have to. You have to keep your head on a swivel, you know what I mean. Like you have to be very, very careful even when you think you're close. The same year, 1979, in September, a young woman was walking home and was literally again yards away from her house when peter struck her. She was only 20 years old. She was on or near the campus of bradford university. She was a student. He hid her body under a pile of bricks. The police found her body after her roommates called them to report her missing the next morning.
Speaker 2A year passed and everything seemed to calm down Until Margaret Walls was attacked walking home from work. She worked at the Department of Education and Science. She was 47 years old and had been working late because she was about to go on vacation. The next morning oh geez, peter saw her walking, parked his car and stalked her on foot. He attacked her with a hammer and then strangled her. She was found the next morning in somebody's garden. I know it's horrible. At the time of this attack, peter had already been arrested for a different crime. Can you guess what that was?
Speaker 2For rape, you could think so, right? No, drinking and driving Interesting, I don't know. I mean obviously just a lack of empathy and a lack of respect for other people. But I mean, that shows that. But yeah, I would think it was more violent. But no, for some reason he was arrested, not for any of his violent crimes. I guess they couldn't. I guess DNA wasn't that advanced yet.
Speaker 1Or at all at that point. Oh really, I mean I think at that point. So I'm more talking about 1980, did you say, or thereabouts.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1I think police departments began to think you know, here is some form of DNA. They didn't even know that we're DNA at that point, but they you know seminal fluid or something like that, or you know blood or whatever, and I think they started collecting it, saying there may be something someday that Okay, you know we could tie someone into this.
Speaker 2The fingerprints were around for longer, though. Right yeah, that was Fingerprints were.
Speaker 1That was years, decades before that Okay. Do you know something that they used early on? What To try to differentiate people before they started figuring out fingerprints and things like that it's called. No, it's called phrenology. They would examine someone in terms of the shape and someone of their skull.
Speaker 2Oh, to determine people if they found yeah no, I have heard of that and there is some similarities that you can find on people's like bone structures and stuff, apparently.
Speaker 1There is, and I understand, recently getting wildly off the topic.
Speaker 2No, that's okay.
Speaker 1But your brother was trying to have me upgrade my iPhone and he was like and I still have the one with the fingerprint, oh my gosh. And yeah, I know it's.
Speaker 2I say that, but I only have one. That's like just a year after yours, so but we both need to upgrade.
Speaker 1But I'm like, I really like the you know the ID match of the fingerprint and he said, well, the new one, just, you know, you just look at it and it recognizes your facial structure. But, however, I then read the next day an article that said two ladies that were twins Couldn't get into each other's phones. Can't get into each other's phones.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's. I mean that is true. I wonder if anyone's a twin out there. Have you guys gotten into each other's phones? I'm really curious. Drop a comment in the Instagram or something, Cause I would love to hear about that. I've like that's a good point, though Like that would be annoying if, like I, had a twin and they were like getting into my phone as like a child, Like what.
Speaker 2So back on topic. November 1980, a woman named Jacqueline Hill was attacked. She was a 20 year old student at Leeds University. She was studying English and she was also a Sunday school teacher. Peter saw her getting off a bus and followed her, Then murdered her.
Speaker 1Like I mean Brought daylight now, or this is that night, I guess it's.
Challenges Faced by Women in Society
Speaker 2It didn't mention, but I'm probably I think it's at night cause he seems like a coward, but I guess, I don't know. But I guess my point with all of these and like why it's so irritating to like be a woman, it's just like you can't do anything, like you could literally be stalked and killed at any point, and that's literally how I feel. You know what I mean. Like I feel, like I can't just like go do something by myself anytime that the night is even close, like I can't even go to the grocery store at night. That's ridiculous as an adult woman. This is the world we live in.
Speaker 1Yeah, unfortunately it is, isn't it crazy? Yeah, it is true.
Speaker 2Like you know what I mean, you know how like I mean I feel like the last half of my day is almost useless to me sometimes, cause sometimes, if my girlfriend is not home and I want to go across to get groceries, I will, and I'll be like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. Like you know, and like I live really close to a grocery store, and it's just like the fact that I have to like feel crazed when I go to the grocery store at 7pm, ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous.
Speaker 1I agree.
Speaker 2So Jacqueline Hill was his last victim that we know of again. But one of the victims survived. Can you guess which one?
Speaker 1The 20 year old university student.
Speaker 2No, unfortunately not. It was the third one and her name is Marcella Claxton. She was the one who went to a party and he asked her like are you a sex worker? And she said no, I'm just trying to get home. And he was like I'll give you a ride home. And she ended up surviving. So when she reported the attack, she was laughed off. They claimed that she was a sex worker, she must be a sex worker, and that she was probably just upset and, like her pamp had smacked her around. That's literally what the police said.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2Yeah, she said that people were really skeptical of her after that and they thought that she was a sex worker because she had been attacked. And she was quoted saying people gave me dirty looks all the time, even my own parents.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2Because, like I mean, it's insane that she was like guilted for and shamed for being attacked. Like and it kind of goes back to like I feel like this is like one thing we see, especially with older cases, but still in cases today sometimes, where like women don't wanna come forward about their attacks because like they don't wanna be shamed about it, when it's never anyone's fault for being attacked.
Speaker 1Absolutely, and that's the thing I mean. There's so much bad in that scenario and that you feel badly that somehow you're fought. I shouldn't have been walking alone. I shouldn't have been. You know, I shouldn't have taken a ride from someone. They're putting the problem on top of these people that have already been attacked.
Speaker 2Exactly, it's hideous it is. And we do things that try to keep us safe, of course, like we try not to take rides from strangers now that we know better and now that we have better options right, the Metro or the Uber apps or Lyft apps or whatever but when it comes down to it, if someone harms us and if someone wants to harm us, they probably will find a way to, first of all and sadly, and secondly, if someone harms us, it's never our fault. No matter what is going on, it doesn't matter. Women should be allowed to walk around at night.
Speaker 1Well, there used to be a classic strategy with a defense attorney in a rape truck or a legit rape truck it used to be well, what were you? Dressed like, yep, how the fuck. Why the hell does that matter at?
Speaker 2all Exactly.
Speaker 1It doesn't matter if she's wearing a clear plastic bag If she's naked, well, naked, no, no, I'm not that. No, not naked in terms of.
Speaker 2That's what I mean. Like if someone is no, but I'm saying like if someone is literally walking down the street naked, it's still not.
Speaker 1Like. That doesn't mean you should go touch her.
Speaker 2Like what, what I mean? That doesn't even make sense, you know.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2Like what.
Speaker 1Ugh. You know what it's interesting. I have had experiences before recently where, like I saw someone that was obviously mentally not connected at that point because they weren't fully clothed, and as a man my first instinct would be my God, is that person need help? But in reality my first instinct was so there's something really wrong. I don't know what should I do. Should I call the police? You know, I don't wanna seem like I'm. You know what I mean. I don't wanna get too close to this situation. I don't wanna be, you know, anyone think that this is somehow my fault, right? But at the same time, you know, I was raised in such a way that it's like wait a minute. That's a plea for help I have to do something.
Speaker 2It is. It's tough. The police were skeptical about her story and it led to more unnecessary violence. She was quoted as saying if only they, being the police, had listened to the description that I gave, they might have caught him sooner and all those poor women would not have died. And I think that's one of the most frustrating parts about this case is the authorities had her eyewitness description and didn't use it. They didn't realize they had a serial killer in the area yet. And then, when they did, they forgot all about Marcella and didn't connect her to the rest of the women.
Speaker 1How do they not see the pattern of people being attacked with a claw hammer?
Speaker 2So that was like before she was the third victim.
Speaker 1One, two yeah.
Speaker 2So I mean yeah, but it's because they were all sex workers and so they thought it was like, just like a sex worker problem, and that's why they labeled her a sex worker.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2And this was also the seventies, and she came and she was a black woman. And so they were just not listening to her.
Speaker 2Like they just they, literally, and there was actually a TV show about this. The TV show is called the Long Shadow. I have not watched it but I hear it's good, and Marcella herself said that it was fairly accurate to what happened and she said that, like the racism and the sexism of the police was just horrific and I could only imagine, because that was sit like what so 50, 60 years ago? Sure.
Speaker 2Oh oh my God, yeah. So if you're interested, give it a watch. That night she remembers blood everywhere and, thinking that she was gonna die, she crawled and searched for a phone booth after he had attacked her. She found one and called an ambulance, which is a miracle that she was able to move, let alone save herself by calling for help, because again she was attacked with a hammer by a grown man. And then she saw headlights of a car not just any car, but his car coming back. He'd come back to check on the scene. He didn't see her because she hid in some nearby bushes and he drove away for the second time.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2So scary. During the time of the attack, marcella had been four months pregnant and it wasn't clear if she was aware or not, but she did end up miscarrying. After the attack, because of all the harm that he did to her, she also needed 50 stitches and brain surgery. Yikes, yes.
Speaker 1Wow, that's amazing that she survived. Yeah, she had 50 stitches and required brain surgery. Somehow, miraculously, she had the presence of mind to see the headlights coming and hide, hide, yep, and then call for an ambulance later. That's amazing.
Speaker 2Fight or flight is like a very real thing, and it does definitely. It's always interesting to me that, like, I think my sense of fight or flight is definitely heightened compared to like a man, you know, sure, but for the most part, like I go to work, I go to the store you know what I mean Like I don't have like a lot of need for it. I am very aware, but, like you know, as humans, like in certain places, I will say like this is definitely a privilege, but in certain places we're not in fight or flight and the fact that our bodies will still, like you know, make us extra aware, make our senses like heightened. You know what I mean. It's really incredible and definitely has saved so many lives.
Speaker 1So Like even I, sometimes I take I walk, that's part of my fitness regiment, right, I work out, I lift weights, but I also walk because I am old.
Speaker 2So hold the handrail.
Speaker 1I'm not always on stairs when I'm walking.
Speaker 2You're not old on the stairs just when you're walking.
Speaker 1Just, I'm not on the stairs. Yes, I'm a young, I'm a young sprite when I'm walking on stairs.
Speaker 2You need to be careful of those stairs.
Speaker 1So, but I sometimes do walk and sometimes it's right, almost twilight.
Speaker 2It's a better deal.
Speaker 1Gotta be careful. And since you've been so aggressive with you know you shouldn't walk, then you should always use your handrails and stuff like that. Some of that's been seeping in lately. Yeah, you gotta be careful. So I am, I'm aware, more aware probably, of my surroundings, especially at night.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Like every once in a while, as I'm walking and I have a path that I walk which is probably a bad idea too Randomly periodically, I'll completely stop and look completely behind me to see if there's anyone behind me.
Speaker 2Yeah, you live in a good safe area Safe area. But yeah, I mean, you gotta be careful. That's why you need a dog, a nice big dog Like a Sherman. Shepherd, yeah, or like a Rottweiler.
Speaker 1Too scary.
Speaker 2They're so sweet, anyways. So he was caught in January of 1981. Peter was driving with a sex worker in his car when he was pulled over by a police officer. They ran his plates and saw that the plates were stolen. He was questioned immediately after being arrested because at this point they had a vague description of what he looked like from someone other than Marcella. They still didn't, I mean, it's so, it's so infuriating, but they had a vague description from like other people that had just like seen him, or like people that were like, eh, this guy's weird.
Speaker 1Sketchy.
Speaker 2Yeah, exactly. And so Peter fit that bill. They for some reason I don't know what was going on, but they stripped him, it's very strange, I know. I don't know what question marks and found that he was wearing a v-neck sweater on his legs under his pants to expose his genitals, but his legs and body were covered by the sweater. This was obviously very strange to the police and like seemingly dark yeah under his pants. So he had like a v-neck sweater.
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 2And then he had pants over top of it, so he could just like pull down his pants really quick and just like still have the. Would just wait.
Speaker 1Have the illusion of having pants on.
Speaker 2I guess I don't know. No, I think it's okay. Wait, he did explain it. He admitted to doing this because he didn't want to hurt didn't want to hurt his knees while assaulting people. So that was weird, obviously showed premeditation. So he finally admitted to being the Yorkshire Ripper two days after questioning. So they were questioning him for two days. He claimed this is where you're gonna get really upset and a lot of people are and I'm upset, but like it's getting into weird territory now. He claimed that he was acting as a servant to God.
Speaker 1A servant to God.
Speaker 2Yes, he's quoted as saying the woman I killed were filth bastard prostitutes who were littering the streets. I was just cleaning up the place a bit.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2Yeah, obviously a horrible fucking person.
Speaker 1Right, right, it's very upsetting. So how did he come across this revelation that that was his purpose in life?
Speaker 2He was hearing voices there we go. And he thought that it was.
Speaker 1God Ding, ding, ding ding. He's insane.
Speaker 2Yep, and well, not everyone who hears voices is insane, right, there's a lot of people that do have like mental illness and they do their best to, you know, get medication and they, you know, are careful and they go to therapy and stuff. So like it's not like just because you hear voices that you're a bad person. It's a mental illness.
Speaker 1Yes, yes, yes, yes, Right right.
Speaker 2He sexually assaulted many of these women and had slept with many sex workers, but in his twisted logic they were the problem and them being sex workers was reason enough to die violently. And remember, five of them were not sex workers too. So I mean, it's just an obvious hatred for women, obviously a psychopath, obviously a narcissist. Right Horrible, I mean disturbed, obviously.
Speaker 1Okay, so as flawed as his thinking is there, how did he come to the rationalization that they were prostitutes somehow, if they weren't, or they weren't acting as such?
Speaker 2Because he hates women. It doesn't matter if they were prostitutes to him. He just said that I believe honestly my thoughts or he just believed that, like all, women were like doing that on the side, I don't know, I really don't. Anyways, he was charged and tried. He pleaded not guilty to murder, but guilty to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility. Wow, yeah, his defense. I mean, this guy has the audacity, like I'm like, are you fucking serious?
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2Yep. His defense was that he was acting on God's will in court. I mean shocking. He was later diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.
Speaker 1No kidding.
Speaker 2Due to hallucination and voices in his head which he believed were God, he was sentenced to life and died in prison at the age of 73, from COVID in 2020.
Speaker 1Wow, Interesting, yeah it is very, very interesting.
Speaker 2This story was really brutal. How many people did he kill? 13.
Speaker 1My goodness.
Speaker 2Yeah, and of those 13 people they left 13 or 14 surviving children that were impacted by this man's horrible, self-serving decisions. Countless family and friends lost loved ones Marcella still gets headaches and dizzy spells from almost losing her life.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2Almost 50, 60 years later, she said that he ruined her life. He hit her like in a place and it just. It hurts her every day. She has a headache there. She always remembers that that happened to her. The people who found their bodies are most likely traumatized to this day.
Speaker 1Sure.
Speaker 2And I mentioned this to show how connected we all are. He took 13 innocent lives, tried to take 14. Hundreds of people were negatively impacted. I say this to watch out for your friends and your neighbors, because I feel like that's how we prevent some of these horrible acts of violence. Walk home with your friends. If you can Make sure they get there, call them ubers if they need. You know what I mean. Sure, if they can cop in your Uber. There's little little decisions that can really possibly save someone's life. You know what I mean. Be very careful with your community.
Speaker 1Right, it's funny. We've had where I work, we've had different social events and so on, and sometimes they're at nighttime and I'm almost always trying to make sure that women that are walking to their cars or walking to the bus station or whatever, in the least creepy way possible I'm like why don't you let me walk with you to make sure that you get in your car?
Speaker 2Do they know you? They know me? Oh, okay, they already know you.
Speaker 1They know me right. Right, that's nice, but that's really important. Yeah, right, Because I would just feel I don't know, I don't think I could handle the fact that I just didn't bother to make sure that person got home safely.
Speaker 2Yeah Right, it's horrible, it's horrible.
Speaker 1And, like you brought up so many times, I'm not six foot four and 265 pounds, but I am a man, right.
Speaker 2You're so close to that though.
Speaker 1Yes, absolutely, but yeah, but I mean, like you said before, sometimes just the very presence of a man with someone. Yes, we'll make a predator move off and pick on some less defended target, right.
Speaker 2I know it's very odd, but I'm happy it happens and I think also in numbers is really good. Two or more is preferable Sure sure.
Speaker 2I say that and I also want to defend a woman's right to like be alone. Sure, because honestly, it does get really exhausting having to think like, oh, I'm gonna have my best friend walk me here, I'm gonna have like it's just, it's ridiculous. You know what I mean. Like, if I want to go down to the bookstore, I should be able to do that by myself. Like it's ridiculous. But I am very happy that you walk your coworkers to their car. That's nice at night, yeah. But yeah, be safe out there. Make sure you're checking in with your friends.
Speaker 1And men step up, walk people to their cars.
Speaker 2I agree, but don't be creepy about it.
Speaker 1You gotta be careful.
Speaker 2And I feel like that, but also maybe just be like oh, I'm going that way anyways.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2Because then it not only takes the pressure off of someone to be like oh no, it's okay, you don't have to, you know, like you don't have to go out your way, that kind of thing, but it's nice because that way, you know what's sad about that is sometimes, when women say something like that, is it because they don't want you following them either. Oh yeah, yeah, that's also the case. Yes, that's such a shame.
Speaker 2It is a shame because I've had it actually happen. What? Three weeks ago I was leaving at like 8.30 at night and it's you know, it's dark out now, and so this one of the people I was working with that day, he left with me and he was like I'll just walk you to your car. Mind you, I did not know this person and I was just like that's okay, and he was like no, it's fine, like I don't mind, and I was just like I was getting good vibes from him. You know, and always trust your God, ladies, everyone, everyone, always trust your God, of course. But I remember looking at this other person that I knew there and I told them I was like, oh, this guy's gonna walk me to my car, that's so nice, that was smart.
Speaker 2Yeah, exactly Because I'm like, oh my gosh, and it was in the back of my head. I was like, oh, like is it? Is it better to walk alone to your car? Is it better to have someone walk to your car? It depends on who the person is. How do you know? It's ridiculous.
Speaker 1So I've actually said that before. I've noticed that people were not completely comfortable with me. I said I'm gonna stand right here, okay, and I'm gonna make sure you get to your car safely.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Which is the least threatening way I could think of.
Speaker 2I feel like one good way to do it is to just be chatting and just be like, oh, my car's somewhere over there, I think it might be over there, or something like that you could do or just really emphasize like, hey, I actually just wanna make sure you get there safe and do it in a light, airy tone, not like I wanna protect you, because then it's a little much. It's a balance and it's sad that it has to be a balance, but there's a reason why people are scared. You know what I mean For sure. So I would say just try your best and make sure to protect your family, make sure to protect your community members, make sure to protect your friends. Text people, make sure they get home. My friends are sick of me texting them. Literally. They're like I got home. I told someone the other day text me when you get home, and they were like no, I was like, oh my God. But you know this stuff is important.
Speaker 1So you know what your grandma always say.
Speaker 2No, do not say it. Oh my God, that's so scary. What was she gonna say?
Speaker 1The wolf was always at the door.
Speaker 2Literally Follow the show on whatever streaming site you're listening on.
Speaker 1And remember. All of the source material will be available in the show notes.
Speaker 2And follow us on Instagram at what we lose in the shadows and let us know if you wanna hear a specific case.
Speaker 1Or if you just wanna give us some feedback.
Speaker 2Okay, join us in the shadows next Tuesday. Bye.
