What we lose in the Shadows (A father and daughter True Crime Podcast)
What we lose in the Shadows (A father and daughter True Crime Podcast)
Brianna Ghey: A Life Interrupted by Fear and Bias
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On this episode we walk you through the unsettling murder of Brianna Ghey—a young life stolen by the hands of hate. We’re not just narrating the somber tale of a teen whose existence was cut short by transphobic violence; we're engaging in a profound discourse on the societal and legal entanglements that continue to challenge the transgender community, bringing to light the stark realities we must confront. With a heartfelt focus on the impact such a loss imposes not just on a family but a worldwide fellowship, our dialogue extends an empathetic hand to those grappling with similar adversities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Brianna_Ghey
Contact us at: whatweloseintheshadows@gmail.com
Background music by Michael Shuller Music
Good morning and welcome to what we Lose in the Shadows a father-daughter true crime podcast. My name is Jameson Keys.
Speaker 2I'm Caroline.
Speaker 1Good morning Caroline. How are you?
Speaker 2Good, how are you?
Speaker 1Very good. How's your week been so far?
Speaker 2It's been good. The weather is very interesting up and down, but that's okay, spring's around the corner.
Speaker 1Well, in the East Triad of the country, I grew up in Pittsburgh and you were born in Pittsburgh. Why?
Speaker 2do you say that every?
Speaker 1time, just so you remember that.
Speaker 2But it's not true. I was born in some town outside of pittsburgh. Well, your upper st claire, which is a suburb of pittsburgh I know, but literally had this whole time I had been putting in pittsburgh on my co-star and so it literally redid my whole birth chart oh, wow yeah, interesting, still a sag, but you know gotcha very cool, very cool, but yeah, so in in you know the so in the Northeast and in Pittsburgh this time of year.
Speaker 1I mean, it's like one day you need a jacket, one day it snows, the next day it's 75 degrees and the next day it's 30. It's crazy weather.
Speaker 2It's very, very, very windy. It's literally blowing my hair all over the place and I just cut it, so I can't put it in a ponytail. It is cute though, I know, but you should see me walking down the street. Looks like I've been touching a toaster oven. It's like a lot of hair all over the place and it's curly, and it's curly, really curly now, yeah. So tell me about the book.
Speaker 1Sales the book sales are going very well. Good, thank you for asking.
Speaker 2I appreciate that.
Speaker 1Hey, by the way, if you are looking for a nice mystery that isn't too graphic, too gory, too sexy and all that kind of thing, consider my book. It's called Mystery Light. Right Cozy, mr Almost.
Speaker 2Yeah, cozy mystery.
Speaker 1It's subject matters, maybe a little not.
Speaker 2It's cozy, I think. For adults maybe not cozy, but like you can cozy up and read it and it's not overly graphic or depressing or some of the parts are a little intense, but still, you know, I would say that 15 plus could probably read it.
Speaker 1Right, so why not? That could probably read it Right. So YA and up, that's cool. Yeah, excellent, I agree. But yeah, so I even have a great. Of course, it's available everywhere. It's available on Amazon, it's available on Barnes and Noble, walmart, all these different things. But if you go to my website, which is jamesonkeyscom, you can buy it directly from there. You'll get it quicker than you will with Amazon or anywhere else, and if you use the code, you get a 15% discount.
Speaker 2Also, you're going to be doing a Barnes Noble book signing soon. Yes, so go into your Barnes Noble as a request.
Speaker 1Absolutely, I'd appreciate that. That would be fun. So you know what? One other thing before we start here Absolutely, I'd appreciate that that would be fun. So you know what? One other thing before we start here. It's been a while since we caught up to some of our newer listeners Just recently, in the last 30 days and so on. We have new listeners from Seattle, Cape Town, South Africa, Duncan, Oklahoma, Chesterfield, Missouri, Gillette, Wyoming and Dubai in the UAE. But yes, so welcome everyone and welcome to our big family. It's getting to be a much bigger family and an across the planet family. So welcome and thank you for listening.
Speaker 2Yes, absolutely. Trigger warnings today are transphobia, assault and murder. The case that I'm going to discuss today involved the hatred of transgender people, and that has led to murder in this case. This is a huge issue for our global community and there will be a part two to this episode. One will focus on one case today, and then the next will be a case that is related in the fact that they are both youth trans attacks, and then we'll compare the two at the end of the next episode.
Speaker 1Gotcha.
Speaker 2The first person's death that I want to discuss is a case that hit me really hard. Last year, as you remember, in February of 2023, the news of a young teen's death was spread. The girl's name was Brianna Jai. She lived in the UK, in Warrington. She was 16 and had autism and ADHD. She was a popular TikTok vlogger and often spoke about the need for acceptance of trans people. She was in special education and she had some classes that were one-on-one classes and school was really tough for her, and I really relate to that because I had a tough time in school too, although we do have different challenges. She often was faced with bullying and harassment for multiple reasons, but also because she was trans, and that's different, you know, from other people.
Speaker 2Another girl named Scarlett Jenkinson went to a neighboring school. She brought edibles to her school one day and gave some to a younger child, which caused that child to become ill. The incident was reported to the police and the school told her that she could transfer or get expelled, which doesn't really make sense to me. I don't know why they give them that option, but oftentimes you'll see this, where they'll be like asked to leave, basically, and like transfer early, like you can't stay here, and if you stay here we're going to expel you. It's, it's very interesting. Scarlett jenkinson were transferred to brianna's school and became friends with her. She fell into an obsession with her. She told a friend that she was scared to lose Brianna and she'd rather kill her so they could be together forever.
Speaker 1Oh, wow.
Speaker 2Yeah, these are teens 16, 15, 16. Scarlett was also obsessed with serial killers. She watched documentaries all the time. She had notebooks full of notes about the murders committed by John Winn Gacy and Jeffrey Dahmer. There's an internet browser called Tor, if you've heard of it. It's similar to Chrome or Safari, but Tor is different in that you can search the web completely anonymously.
Speaker 1Yikes.
Speaker 2This is often used with people searching the dark web or things like that, and that's exactly what this girl was doing. She would search for and watch videos of torture and murder in her spare time, so she was obviously an extreme sadist. Separately, a boy who went to the same school as um. The first school that Scarlett went to was named Eddie Radcliffe, and he became friends with Scarlett. He was known as a loner who did well in school, who was socially awkward, but he had a strange obsession with knives.
Speaker 1Great.
Speaker 2Yeah, on February 11th, scarlett messaged Brianna to meet up at the forgive me if I say this wrong cold chith library. Brianna texted her mother around 12 30 noon when she left her house, letting her know that she was meeting up with her friend scarlet. She arrived to the bus stop close to the library and met eddie for the first time. She had never met him. They all walked to the bus stop close to the library and met Eddie for the first time she had never met him. They all walked to the park together and were seen by a couple of eyewitnesses. Scarlett lured Brianna there under the impression that they would be using recreational drugs. Brianna messaged Scarlett saying that she was anxious, I think, about Eddie, and would wait where she was, I'm assuming, trying not to go deeper into the park about Eddie, and would wait where she was I'm assuming, trying not to go deeper into the park with her and this strange boy. Brianna messaged another one of her friends saying that Scarlett was so weird and she was pretending to have like a dealer. So I think she was kind of being like she was getting suspicious about this situation as well.
Speaker 2A short while after these texts were sent, an older couple and their dog were walking in the same park, scarlett and Eddie realized that they had been seen by them and ran from the scene. The couple got closer to where they had been to see what was going on and they discovered Brianna Jai's body, face down and bleeding profusely oh no, face down and bleeding profusely oh no. They called emergency services and when they arrived after trying to revive her, she was pronounced dead. Around 4 pm the medical examiner Mentioned in their report that Brianna had been stabbed 28 times.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2By children, children Terrifying. How old again Like 16, 15, 16 age, right Scary. They mentioned that the crime is extremely brutal and punishing in nature. The very next day, scarlett and Eddie were both arrested simultaneously at their prospective homes. Charlotte and Eddie were both arrested simultaneously at their prospective homes. Both of them were taken to juvenile detention, charged with murder and refused bail.
Speaker 1Thankfully, the police were very hesitant to label this a hate crime.
Speaker 2Why, exactly? They originally said that there was no evidence that oppressive hate based on the minority group of trans people was present. Then they said they would look into all lines of inquiry later, which I think would have been an appropriate response from the jump. Instead of being like no, no, no, that wasn't what happened. Like why would you not be like we're gonna search, we're gonna look into everything. That's like I don't know, just seems like the right thing to do? I just think it's strange that they're like defensive about it, like no, no, no, that's not what happened. It's like but you don't know, just seems like the right thing to do. I just think it's strange that they're like defensive about it, like no, no, no, that's not what happened. It's like but you don't know what happened.
Speaker 2So it very well could have been.
Speaker 1Well, let me ask you this I know in this country a hate crime brings in the federal government.
Speaker 2It's a good point. That might be why.
Speaker 1So maybe they just want to deal with it in the local jurisdiction first Right. Maybe that's what they were thinking.
Speaker 2Yeah, that makes sense, but still, I would still say that that blanket narrative of we're going to look into it in general, yeah, to see what happened.
Speaker 1How are all your bases?
Complex Teenage Hate Crime Discussion
Speaker 2Exactly so, like they were just I don't know, I think they just. I think that might be why they were scared, probably. But then it's like you could just say we'll see, you know right, right right.
Speaker 2Strange, later in the year, in July, and then again in October, the two respective accused both pled not guilty, one in July, one in October. The trial took place in November of last year, 2023. So this is really recent Reporting. Restrictions were placed due to the ages of the accused, sure, which is why we tried to actually record this episode last year when it happened, like the month it happened, but they wouldn't release any details because the accused were under the age of 18 and they couldn't have their names mentioned.
Speaker 1In the news, in the news Right.
Speaker 2Yeah, but in court documents like that were published in the public, you couldn't find their names. No one knew their names. Gotcha. Both the accused were diagnosed while in detention centers. Scarlett was diagnosed with autism and Eddie was diagnosed with selective mutism. He was only able to communicate via computer from then on out. He just shut down.
Speaker 1So he wasn't a mute prior to not that not diagnosed, I don't think.
Speaker 2But maybe he had flare-ups, I don't know, but he literally could not speak the trauma triggered this? I think so, wow or like his own behavior, I don't know, but he could speak to his mom right exactly.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's very interesting and I don't know like all the like psychological components to these, like specific disorders you know, but I did think it was really interesting and the court, to their credit, did provide him with a like a keyboard, like text to chat keyboard, so he could like still communicate, which I think was a really good choice because instead of just like brushing him off as like he doesn't want to talk, which is very interesting, and you know I'm not saying that that's.
Speaker 2You know, if he was diagnosed by a professional, he probably does have that condition. Sure, professionals know what they're doing, but I thought it was a good um accommodation for the court to do. I didn't see that coming really. Yeah, during the trial it came out that scarlet had texted with a friend about trying to poison brianna at least once before in the months leading up to her murder. She had stated in the text that she was trying to get her to take a lethal dose of ibuprofen, which I didn't even know was possible that's a lot of ibuprofen by telling brianna that it was a recreational drug.
Speaker 2Scarlet was hoping that if she succeeded in poisoning her that it would have been seen as a suicide. Brianna did take the pills. Brianna did take the pills and became very ill. Her mother thought it was appendicitis, but luckily she did survive that. The source doesn't mention if she went to the hospital or not or what happened with it, but after that scarlet and eddie decided to plan her murder, and to plan to murder her with a knife that eddie bought. Scarlet told eddie that brianna was so pretty and so different and this was how she was expressing those feelings.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's very interesting.
Speaker 1And you said she was autistic.
Speaker 2Yeah, they both were actually Wow, Brianna Jai and Scarlett Jenkinson her murder. It was very interesting.
Speaker 1And the boy had selective mutism Wow.
Speaker 2Eddie wanted to kill her to see if she screamed like a boy or a girl. Which?
Speaker 1brings in our hate crime. Yeah.
Speaker 2Exactly, and that's why one reason why this is defined as a hate crime.
Speaker 1For sure.
Speaker 2The two were defended by separate defense teams and it got really messy with each other blaming everything on the other one teams. And it got really messy with each other blaming everything on the other one. Eddie said that he thought scarlet was joking about the plan to murder brianna. He said that she was always talking about murder but it never happened but he bought a new knife I was gonna say, and yet he brought his hunting knife.
Speaker 2wow, scarlet blamed eddie, saying that he was the one who did the stabbing and she didn't stop it because she was scared of him, but she was the one who had the plan to begin with so sentencing Mrs Judge Yip Y-I-P said which was sadistic in nature and where a secondary motive was hostility towards brianna because of her transgender identity, which I thought was a really great point to bring up. So you know, she focused on the fact that it was a horrible crime and that it was fueled by the fact that they didn't accept her in her transgender identity, and I thought that was really good that the judge pointed that out.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2And it was on court documents.
Speaker 1I really, I really like female judges. I just, I don't know, they seem to be so very wise. Not that men aren't, it's just I think that sometimes female judges have a little more I don't know sensitivity and that sort of thing in certain areas. I think it's great. I agree, do you remember the case where down in South America it caused a whole uprising? Yes, and it wasn't a One woman, less Right, right, and there was a strong female judge there.
Speaker 1And the case where the young lady, a nursing student was, and her murderer ran back down to South America somewhere and once again a woman judge stepped forward and said no, no, no, this is not going to happen this way. You did a terrible thing.
Speaker 2So that's great, it is, it is. The judge also mentioned that Jenkinson was motivated by a deep desire to kill and pronounced her concern on hearing that the teenager Mm-hmm. Since she was placed in detention, which included the names of some of her carers in detention and I'm sure they were not all very nice to her I'm sure that, like the guards at detention, are not nice, but still I was like that's terrifying. Scarlett also told her psychologist that she stabbed her. She admitted that she stabbed her repeatedly and she found it really exciting.
Speaker 1Wow, so they had a shared sickness who she and, and the young man yeah, but I think it was mostly.
Speaker 2I think his. It seems like his was fueled by hatred towards trans people, right, and hers was fueled by obsession, right with her and maybe also not accepting of trans people well, yeah, but she had a morbid curiosity with serial killers, right. It's very interesting, right. But then he also had the obsession with knives.
Speaker 1It's a very complex like I don't know, they're just a lot of red flags, and like it's like I don't know, I wish something could have been stopped, like I feel like people were not paying enough attention, you know and that brings up an interesting point in that you know, we always say in the United States and when mass shootings and things like that happen, excuse me, that it's largely a problem with not only just rage and things like that, but also a problem with the lack of, you know, mental health care. It is, but Great Britain has a great medical system, that. But also a problem with, um, the lack of you know mental health care. It is, but great britain has a great medical system, not mental health care.
Speaker 2Don't they have free medical health care there? I don't know if they have mental health care, if it's free there, but I know that, as a as the world entirely, we really need to step it up with like mental health and taking mental health uh seriously, right, sure, and you know this, that whatever.
Speaker 1But yeah, I mean they probably do have like more access, like lower costs I'm pretty sure they have universal health care and that's one of the big things that is mental health care oh yeah, I think it's part of it.
Speaker 2I mean, that's that is definitely a good thing. Um, you know, and we also need to remember that these, these are children, so they have to go through their parents for their health care for the most part. Like you can go to clinics and whatnot, but right, so that's something else. So we have to remember that some parents don't want their children to go to therapy for some reason because they're going to be ostracized or labeled or something like that but no one needs to know that you're in therapy if you don't want them to.
Mental Health and Tragic Events
Speaker 2But also that's another issue is the fact that we think that, like therapy is only for those that are insane, when that's not the case. Right, right, it can be beneficial to anyone who's going through any number of issues diagnosed, or if you don't have any type of mental health issue and you just want to run through the issues that you're currently facing, like you know finding a job or you know random things, that can help you really think through things. And you know manage your expectations, manage, you know your relationships. I mean, there's so many positives to therapy.
Speaker 1Oh, I agree, I agree, but I mean, there was a time, especially in my generation, I think still now though. Yeah, with some people. Maybe there's a stigma there's a stigma attached to it, but there really was. Back then they went to a shrink. They used to call them a shrink, like they were a witch doctor and the head shrinker and jesus yeah, is that where that's from, shrink, I was always curious like why that?
Speaker 2word.
Speaker 2What that's so weird right so strange yeah, I think that you know a lot of this would would be we wouldn't be talking about it if you know people had access to mental health care and if people weren't, like, labeled as crazy and that, you know, I feel like when we label things as as such, like strong words, like that, you know, like people are like I'm not like that, so it doesn't matter if I'm struggling and, yeah, my struggles are really hard and I'm having these thoughts of like you know, like people are like I'm not like that, so it doesn't matter if I'm struggling and, yeah, my struggles are really hard and I'm having these thoughts of like, you know, hurting people but I'm not crazy, so I can't go. It's not you know what I mean. And so they don't want to seek the help that they do need. Right, it's just a lot. There's a lot going on, I'm sure, but mental health care is very important.
Speaker 2Um, so scarlet also told her psychiatrist that she wanted to and was planning on taking parts of Brianna's body as a token. Oh my God, Specifically her eyes. Oh, she did not get to do that.
Speaker 2Thank God she did not get to do that. But yeah, this is all just to say. You know, this young girl was very disturbed, very disturbed, scary, and her parents didn't recognize this at all. I don't know, that's the scariest part, right, like I mean her parents, like her teachers, I mean she did get kicked out of school for poisoning that girl. But I mean, yeah, it's just, it's very, very strange to me, like the whole situation but I know it happens here too, especially with school shooters like I feel like we have a lot more of that situation going on with like people just get so aggravated and raged, entitled and then they go and hurt multiple people with guns. So you know, it's just such a mess. So, after the trial, scarlet was sentenced to life with a minimum of 22 years, which is not enough no, not for someone's life no, because the thing is is that she's young, she's 16, so she could be out when she's 38 38, that's terrifying.
Speaker 2Eddie was sentenced to life with a minimum of 20 years. How did that happen? Because the they saw scarlet as the driver of this, and I kind of agree with it because it's like she was just, I mean, deranged from the beginning and she was poisoning people and eddie was also sick, definitely, but like he wasn't the one who planned it and she was the one who actually was like stabbing her. It's just, it's, yeah, it's intense. After the trial, jai's mother mentioned that, although the two teens did not seem remorseful in the slightest, that people should have empathy for their families.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2I know what a sweetheart Like. I just think that's so selfless, like to think about the families, the other families that are losing their children. You know, although the children deserve and need to protect society to be put away, but, like you know, that is extremely painful and shameful, I'm sure, and so for jai's mother to mention that is just, it's so thoughtful, you know, it's really empathetic. This year, march 7th 2024, eddie asked for an appeal, so we'll let you know what happens with that. Wow, isn't that insane.
Speaker 1That is insane.
Speaker 2So Brianna's funeral was attended by hundreds of people. Her friends set up a GoFundMe for the family, which amassed over 100,000 euros.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2The family was so honest and told the donators what their money was spent on, which was funeral costs. They wanted to do something to brianna's room. I'm not sure what what that was, but something I'm assuming to like make a tributary or something like that, probably. Um, and then jewelry that included the cremation of the teen as a remembrance, which is a new thing that people are doing now, which is really interesting.
Speaker 2I don't know how I feel about that I wanted to do it with um, with gus. I'm gonna do it anyways, uh, and then the rest was donated to. Donated to a charity focus on focusing on mental health. Candlelight vigils were held all over the world after brianna's death, her murder, and some of those vigils were attended by thousands of people. An upsetting part about all of this, though, is that on brianna's death certificate, she's listed as a male wow a petition with over 13 000 signatures was given to the uk's government to try and change this.
Speaker 2Her parents parents supported Brianna's transition, even though, like it doesn't like, her parents did support her. But even without it, like if you die in this way because you're trans, the least they could do is put the gender that you feel that you are on your birth or your death certificate.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2Her parents are upset because the British government denied the request to change her gender on the on her death certificate, Even though she was a victim of a hate crime that ended in murder because she was transgender. They still refuse to acknowledge the fact that she was transgender, and that's just so ironic like darkly ironic to me that even after she was murdered for being who she was, she still would not get the recognition that she deserved.
Speaker 1That seems terrible.
Speaker 2It's horrid, it's horrid. Next time we are going to discuss the attack on Nex Benedict and that was another trans youth that has been attacked, and this was this year and it was in the United States and we'll be comparing the two and discussing. You know what we see in common in their cases and you know outliers all of that. Follow the show on whatever streaming site you're listening on.
Speaker 1And remember. All of the source material will be available in the show notes.
Speaker 2And follow us on Instagram at whatweloseintheshadows, and let us know if you want to hear a specific case.
Speaker 1Or if you just want to give us some feedback.
Speaker 2Okay, join us in the shadows next Tuesday. Bye.
