What we lose in the Shadows (A father and daughter True Crime Podcast)
What we lose in the Shadows (A father and daughter True Crime Podcast)
Courage Amidst Chaos: The case of Lara Logan
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We delve into Laura Logan's traumatic experience as a journalist to emphasize the broader societal implications and the power of solidarity in addressing gender-based violence and mob mentality.
• Exploration of a violent incident during an NFC Championship game
• Discussion on crowd mentality and emotional triggers related to sports
• Gender-based violence in journalism and its prevalence
• Laura Logan's harrowing story of being assaulted in Egypt
• The impact of collective action and female solidarity
• Reflections on personal responsibility in confronting violence
• Urgent need for societal change regarding aggression in public spaces
Contact us at: whatweloseintheshadows@gmail.com
Background music by Michael Shuller Music
Good morning and welcome to what we Lose in the Shadows.
Speaker 2A father-daughter true crime podcast.
Speaker 1My name is Jamison Keys.
Speaker 2I'm Caroline Hello.
Speaker 1Hi Caroline, how are you?
Speaker 2I'm good. How are you?
Speaker 1Very good.
Speaker 2How are you? Very good. I wanted to tell you about a true crime sports crossover weird thing that happened Okay, I don't know if you've heard about it yet game, the um nfc championship game, where the commanders and the eagles were playing and philadelphia eagles won, and there was a driver that was arguing with people outside the game. And you know, you know how sports games are. Um, yeah, they, they. People get very, very amped up about the sports that they are not playing, which is interesting, you know, I get it. But at the same time it's like, ok, let's keep things in perspective. Right, this person did not keep things in perspective. Let me tell you. So. She, it was a woman, she, interesting.
Speaker 1That's unusual.
Speaker 2It truly was, especially with the sports crossover. I'm like okay, sure. So she got after arguing with people outside of the game about the game, I'm assuming, but it's not confirmed whether she was arguing about the game or about something else and hit people, drove into a crowd with her truck in Philadelphia, near North Broad and Spring Garden streets, around 9.30 pm on January 26th.
Speaker 1So this recent Sunday, so just past Sunday. Wow Was anyone killed.
Speaker 2I don't know if people were killed, but she hit at least 10 people.
Speaker 1Oh my.
Speaker 2God, yeah, she drove into a a crowd and they, they were knocked down. I mean, I saw the video and it literally looked like bowling pins. But exactly, yeah, it looked like bowling pins, like with the momentum of the. You know it. Yeah, it was very scary, and then she drove away.
Speaker 1Oh my god I assume they hope they caught her.
Speaker 2They did, they did. Her name is Rebecca DeShields, she was only 26. Very strange, and she's charged with aggravated assault, driving without a license, simple assault, reckless driving and a few other related offenses.
Speaker 1Wow, that's almost a terrorist act. I mean that's similar to what happened in New Orleans earlier in the year.
Speaker 2Yeah, so terrorism is typically related to you know ideologies and like well, yeah, ideologies, religion, sexual orientation, race, gender because this is like sports it's not actually considered terrorism, it's just considered assault. And you know manslaughter? Well, I guess not manslaughter, It'd be attempted murder For sure. But yeah, I hope that you know anyone who was impacted by this is doing OK and I hope that you know people are healing from that, because I'm sure that's that's some serious trauma. You know to be in a crowd. I hate being in crowds, so I know like I can't imagine if something actually happened in a crowd. Um, so trigger warnings today are sexual assault, violence towards women and a near-death experience. This is going to be a traumatic episode for a lot of people. Um, I I think another trigger warning is possibly, like the fear of crowds.
Speaker 1You know, because I have a fear of crowds.
Speaker 2Yeah, I, I don't like you know small spaces. If people are involved like I don't, it's kind of claustrophobia, but not exactly it's crowd. I don't know, maybe there's a word for it I think, think agoraphobia is. I thought that was like spaces open spaces and open spaces but large crowds.
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2Anyway. So be mindful when you listen to this. You probably have heard of it very minimally, but we're going to go deeper into that and just kind of explain what happened.
Speaker 1We're going to go deeper into that and just kind of explain what happened, so that's right.
Speaker 1Caroline, it's not easy being a woman in generally working environments, I know that's right, literally terrible thing from from rape and sexual assault, death, rape, threats, sexual harassment, you know to trolling and gender hate speech, disinformation and smear campaigns and threats against family members of women journalists. They're subject to all those different things. According to the UN expert on freedom, while both men and men and women journalists are exposed to the violence, the threats to their safety in relation to the work attacks women are, you know, gender based are highly it's highly more sexualized online and so on. So it's just a. It's just a different kind of level, absolutely so. Irene Kahn, she's a UN specialist and she reported on the freedom of opinion to express different things and noted attacks on women journalists to you know, try to intimidate and silence them in the public sphere are blatantly violations of the expression, of the right to participate in that.
Speaker 1To that end, there's a lady named Laura Logan and she is and was a CBS journalist.
Speaker 1She's from South Africa, I believe, originally, and she in 2011,. She was covering a momentous event the trial of former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, who was overthrown and taken out of power. Who was overthrown and taken out of power. The Egyptian army arrested and detained for one night, laura Logan and her CBS crew on February 3rd 2011, while she was covering the Egyptian revolution, the Arab Spring, however you want to term that. She said she was blindfolded and handcuffed at gunpoint and that the driver, who was a citizen, a resident there, was beaten. Wow, they were advised to leave the country, uh, but were later released. So, on the 11th of february, while covering the celebration in tahir square, uh, following hasnub barik's resignation, the shocking and terrifying incident involving two to three hundred men that lasted for about 25 minutes. She had been reporting on the celebration for about an hour without any incident, when her camera battery failed and one of the Egyptian CBS crew suggested that they leave, telling her that the crowd was making inappropriate sexual comments.
Speaker 2Thank goodness for people who understand. You know the language being there.
Speaker 1Right Now. She hesitated by that because she wanted to be a professional. And then suddenly she felt hands touching her.
Speaker 2Uh, literally the biggest fear as a woman.
Speaker 1And could be heard shouting stop, Just as the camera died. One of the crowds shouted that she was Israeli and she was Jewish and that sort of thing, and according to one of the CBS executives, that was the match to the to the gasoline.
Speaker 2I you know I've seen the video and that might have played a role in it, but I do think that, being a woman there, there it was probably really what was going on right, and she wasn't.
Speaker 1you know, she was dressed just, you know, as as a western, you know western clothing and so on. Um, when she told scott peller from 60 minutes that suddenly, before I even knew what was happening, I felt hands grabbing my breasts and grabbing at my crotch from behind, terrifying Things quickly spiraled out of control.
Speaker 2I think my shirt, my sweater were torn off completely Literally. I can't even imagine.
Speaker 1My shirt was around my neck and I felt a movement that tore at my bra and I felt that it tear out and tear away. They literally tore my pants to shreds. I don't even know, you know, I don't even remember how they were beating me. They were beating me, I think, with flag bowls and sticks and things like that, because I just remember thinking about the sexual assault and the things that were happening and I could just feel the hands, you know, all over me in inappropriate places and so on. She terms that as raping me with her hands.
Speaker 2I mean, yeah, it is.
Speaker 1They were tearing at her body and her hair. They were tearing chunks of hair out of her.
Speaker 2Oh my God, Literally what fucking savagery behavior.
Speaker 1Oh, for sure, For sure. The crowd tore off her clothes and, in her words, were raping her with their hands. They never got her on the ground, fortunately. Um, while taking photographs for their cell phones, uh, they began to pull her body in different directions, pulling at her hair, she said. It seemed like they were trying to, you know, rip her in half. Oh, she was dragged along, uh, you know the crowded area, and was pushed into a fence now, things were pretty dire because she had been there with, uh, a contingent of people you know the crowded area and was pushed into a fence.
Speaker 1Now things were pretty dire because she had been there with a contingent of people, you know, like cameraman. And there was even a gentleman that was trained in the secret. I think he was a Navy SEAL or former, you know, special operations guy.
Speaker 2So a serious, a serious, a serious single, just one one guy and she was.
Speaker 1he was trying to hold onto her. I'm sure he was trying to, but with so many people I don't care.
Speaker 2No, absolutely If you're, you know. I'm sure he tried his best.
Speaker 1Yeah, I'm sure he did. He had a hold of her and then her sleeve gave away and then she would just flow. Yeah, she would just. That is terrifying. Uh, Logan said that she was fighting.
Speaker 2I wouldn't think I would live either. I mean, people are literally ripping out your hair while sexually assaulting you Horrific.
Speaker 1There's no doubt in my mind. She said that I was dying, but thinking about her two children at home, she and you back in Washington DC, she was just focused on staying alive.
Speaker 2That's a mother.
Speaker 1That's a mother. Focused on staying alive, that's a mother, that's a mother, mm-hmm. Eventually, she said, she was rescued by a woman, of course, dressed in black religious robes. She could just see her eyes, she said. I remember saying A nekrab. She put her arms around me, and then the they put her arms around me and the group of women that was there and a couple of men that were kind of waiting there with them formed a failing surround her.
Speaker 2Thank God for them, because they probably saved her life oh. I mean her life is teetering, changed forever, no matter what, but I think they saved her from literally dying.
Speaker 1Right, right For sure.
Speaker 2So for sure, I mean that's crazy.
Speaker 1But the courage. Oh, absolutely Because it wasn't a hundred women, it was a small group of women and men that were camping there because they were celebrating and all that kind of thing, and they formed this protective line around her and they were still trying to get at her. Oh, absolutely. But in the meantime also the producers, the cameramen and the security guy ran to the army and asked them for help. A group of soldiers appeared and they beat back the crowd with batons and one of them threw Logan over his shoulder.
Speaker 2Wow.
Speaker 1She later said that she thought she was dying during the assault. She was flown back to the United States the next day, where she spent four days in the hospital. President barack obama contacted her when she arrived back home. She told cbs news that, uh, that was insane, that was an insane thing. I mean, and you think about it and she's not the only uh female reporter, or reporter, generally speaking, that's ever been attacked or assaulted.
Speaker 2Oh, no, of course not that happens happens for sure, but hers was caught on camera, partially, partially caught on camera, and then people were filming it with their phones.
Speaker 1Right, which is such an unhinged behavior, and I mean you were interested in a lot of different things when you were young. In terms of careers, you're always going to be a teacher. You're going to be this or you're going to be that. I'm glad you never decided I'm going to be an international journalist.
Speaker 2You know me too, especially after that. I mean, I just want to point out you know, the fact that women stepped in to form a barrier between them, between them, and you know it's not like the men in the crowd were not, you know, trying to push these women out of the way, trying to, you know, pull their, pull their, um, their knick-knacks off. You know what I mean. Like they were trying to do, I'm sure of this. Like, I mean, if you think about it logically, it's not like they were like oh it, it's fine, now that she's covered, like okay, we're just going to walk away. No, I'm sure they were literally fighting and beating these women, and they have. I mean, most of them probably don't have any like training to take these beatings right, and so they're just, and they're solely because they know what it's like to be a woman.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2And I just think that's so powerful.
Speaker 1Yeah, because she, she, laura, was able to kind of break away and then she was pushed and she kind of fell into the lap of this woman and the woman, um, like she said I'm not sure if she even knows who it was that saved her Right, but she said the woman just wrapped her arms around her and, um, the other women kind of, you know, formed like a bear and then the men that were with them were like throwing water at the crowd and stuff like that, trying to fight them off. But I, I don't know how many there were, but yeah, let's say there were 10, let's say there were, you know, five women for 200, for 200 people.
Speaker 1The courage that it takes to stand up against that kind of a threat knowing that that I could be next yep right especially the women too.
Speaker 1Now now, I don't know if, I don't know if the fact that they were, they were their neighbors, they were native to, to egypt, right, I don't know if that had something to do. I don't know if, under their, their system of law, if, um, you know if it's a much bigger offense to harm a woman, especially one that's, you know, dressed in, in, you know, in formal garb and things like. I don't know how that all works, but I know regardless that, my God, that's, that's that's courage that needs to be celebrated, absolutely, um, and and I'm I'm happy that other men and the army was finally, which, army the egyptian army oh wow, that's great, that's great, that's great so they finally you know, finally got them to act and they came with batons and so on and pushed the people back.
Speaker 1They got her over. The guy tosses her over shoulder runs to the tank that was nearby.
Speaker 1I'm not sure if they put her in, I'm not sure what happened, but they got her the hell out of there thank god, yeah, but even though people with their cameras and that sort of thing were there and some of the thing was, uh, filmed before the camera died, um, no one has ever been prosecuted, no one has ever been singled out in terms of doing such a heinous thing. Um, and of course you know there wasn't dna, there wasn't anything, although my god, what a, what a horrendous thing. Um, and of course you know there wasn't dna, there wasn't anything, although, my god, what a, what a horrendous thing, what a brave person to, years later, talk about it yeah.
Speaker 2No, I think it's important and I'm glad she did, although I would respect the decision not to um. I'm happy that she did because it is something that happens to women in general, not even just reporters, but women in general. Especially, you know countries where they don't know the language.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2So people know that, people know like, oh, this person most likely doesn't know this language, and so they take advantage of that. And then they are not used to seeing women in those clothing, in, in, in a, like a Western, you know, sure, clothing, and obviously no victim blaming, you know me.
Speaker 1I would never, never.
Speaker 2I mean women should be allowed to walk down the street naked and not fear for their safety. Do I think that's a good idea? Probably not. But they should be allowed to because the body like is yours and yours only, and you have to give consent for people to touch your body for sure. Period, doesn't matter what you're wearing, doesn't matter what you're wearing, but, um, I just I think that a lot of things were at play here and you know, it's just. I'm so glad that she's okay.
Speaker 1Right now she's still a reporter. Um, I don't think she works for CBS anymore. I'm not sure exactly what she does do. I know that at one point that I was, I checked on a couple of uh of things and I'm I'm not sure she's been to the back to the Middle East since then and I mean it's very traumatic, Right yeah.
Speaker 1But um, but yeah, I mean, and I think that's a real important part, I think that's a really interesting thing that that one simple act by, by a woman who was in no strong position to oppose a crowd, you know, I think that's so courageous. I just wish we knew who it was. You know, that's a person that that should be celebrated, not just a Nobel Peace Prize?
Speaker 2Oh my gosh, bravery Prize type of level of bravery, exactly yeah.
Speaker 1Exactly, and I never heard about this thing.
Speaker 2Oh my gosh. I've seen it all over the internet, but I didn't know the full story until you told it to me.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2So it's like I've seen the clip and I'm sure a lot of listeners have seen the clip of you know she's blonde. There's a group of people around her kind of leering at her already.
Speaker 1Right, right.
Speaker 2And um, and then the lights go out and you can hear her scream no, and people are like, like and you feel it Like, you feel chills when you watch this, because you know when the lights go out. Uh, these men are, are not, not up to anything. Good.
Speaker 1It's scary. Uh, these men are are not not up to anything.
Standing Up Against Gender-Based Violence
Speaker 2Good, it's scary plus there's excuse me, there's the whole crowd um aspect of it all mob mentality yeah, momentality.
Speaker 1There was a movie back in the um 80s I think, called the accused, I think it was. It was a jodie foster movie and, um, she was in a bar one night in this story and she was dancing and having fun, you know, she was doing a little drinking and so on, and this mob of men just suddenly decide that it would be a good idea to, you know, to attack her. And it's a story. It was kind of an interesting story in that her lawyer was played by Kelly McGillis and she, she defended her and so on, but but she was actually guilty also of sort of victim blaming Kelly McGillis's character, her lawyer's character, and she was trying to do a, she was trying to get a settlement, you know. So they didn't have to go to trial and so on.
Speaker 1But because she thought well, she was dressed provocatively, she was drinking, you know, she was dancing provocatively and that sort of thing, none of which matters, yep, none of which matters, yeah, and that's kind of the end, the final result of the movie. One brave dude came forward and said I saw it all, one of my friends actually took part in it, oh and so on, and so it was real interesting, it was shocking at the time, but that's the whole mob mentality and the bystander effect right, right like when people are in shock and they just, they don't, they don't know how to like intervene and they're scared, right.
Speaker 2Right, and the thing that I want to point out too um, you know these, we're talking about a different culture. We're talking about a culture that has a different ideal of women, and you know what women, what women are, worth, right, like, and their position, what, what role women have and I want to be respectful to all cultures, of course, but I do think that played a role in this Um, however, this happens right here in America.
Speaker 1For sure.
Speaker 2And it happened not too long ago I think it was Boston, um, where it was a cruise or a like a ferry ride or something. They were in the water, um, on a boat, and this man, one man, sexually assaulted a woman in front of everyone and no one did anything. I mean it happens here too, you know, and like you said in the, in the movie I mean that women are not overly sexualized, simply because they are women. We're going to continue to see this happen and it's just, I mean, it's deplorable behavior.
Speaker 1Yeah, there's no doubt about that and you know there's a certain matter of you know. I mean you're right about the bystander effect, because yes, it's serious Because seriously, I mean, I'd like to think that if I saw something like that happen directly in front of me and I wasn't, I didn't know the person or whatever I'd like to think that I would wade into that situation and do what I can. But you're thinking there's 200 people. I mean.
Speaker 2I mean you have to understand, yeah.
Speaker 1You could die. You could die, that's right. But at the same time, you know, I think more men have to just absolutely say ah, whatever, you know, if I die, I die, you know nobly.
Speaker 2I think so too, and not even just men, and, like we saw with this, women too, and women do stand up for other women. That's the thing, and I'm very happy for the men who do that too. It's extremely important, um, to you know, making sure people are safe and equality Um. But you know, men really do need to step up, but women, I mean kind of always have been stepping up.
Speaker 2So it's just like you know, we all need to step up and make sure that each other are safe and we're living in a just society.
Speaker 1I saw something recently, I read something online when I was doing research for this and so on, and it was in India. Um, there's a group of grandmothers.
Speaker 2Oh, I told you about this.
Speaker 1Oh, did you? Yeah, and basically when Mothers and grandmothers Mothers and grandmothers and if a man abuses women in certain parts and I don't remember if it was just a city or if it was just generally speaking there's a group of these mothers and grandmothers that take brooms and they go to the house where this man has abused this woman and they smack him around with brooms yeah, I just I think that's amazing, that is like if and you know people have opinions about this but if you know, if you know that that has happened and no one's doing anything about it, right I?
Speaker 2I don't blame them for wanting to take justice into their own hands for sure especially, you know, I.
Speaker 2I just think that there's something so disturbing about a man hitting a woman or a man, you know, abusing a woman in any way, because men are naturally extremely stronger. Like I, have been pushed by a man and I was astounded by how strong this not very strong looking man was. So I can't even imagine, you know, like they're really strong, and so to use that kind of power against a woman who is not as strong as you, right, I mean, it's, it's ridiculous but anyways so so yeah, just this was disturbing story.
Speaker 1I'm glad the woman was saved. I'm glad that she didn't have to endure even worse things happening to her. And God, I'm really, I'm really just amazed that in that culture, at that time, that women stepped up, saved this woman, yes, saved her life, saved her life. Stepped up, saved this woman, yes, saved her life, saved her life and and were you know, regardless of the effects? They just and they didn't do anything aggressively, they didn't try to fight these guys, that which would have been.
Speaker 1It could have been worse they just wrapped themselves around her and kept her safe and probably took quite a beating, quite a beating for the, for this woman, I would think so that they didn't know Right that it looked different from them For sure. Different culture, different religion, everything.
Speaker 2And they have no idea why she's naked. They still. They didn't care. They just took her and protected her, because that's the right thing to do.
Speaker 1Because that's the right thing to do. We should all learn a lesson from that.
Speaker 2Absolutely Stand up for people who look like you and people who don't.
Speaker 1Right.
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Speaker 1And remember. All of the source material will be available in the show notes.
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Speaker 1Or if you just want to give us some feedback.
Speaker 2Okay, join us in the shadows next Tuesday. Bye.
