What we lose in the Shadows (A father and daughter True Crime Podcast)
What we lose in the Shadows (A father and daughter True Crime Podcast)
Courage Amidst Chaos: The case of Lara Logan
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We delve into Laura Logan's traumatic experience as a journalist to emphasize the broader societal implications and the power of solidarity in addressing gender-based violence and mob mentality.
• Exploration of a violent incident during an NFC Championship game
• Discussion on crowd mentality and emotional triggers related to sports
• Gender-based violence in journalism and its prevalence
• Laura Logan's harrowing story of being assaulted in Egypt
• The impact of collective action and female solidarity
• Reflections on personal responsibility in confronting violence
• Urgent need for societal change regarding aggression in public spaces
Contact us at: whatweloseintheshadows@gmail.com
Background music by Michael Shuller Music
Gender-Based Violence in Public Spaces
Speaker 1Good morning and welcome to what we Lose in the Shadows .
Speaker 2A father-daughter true crime podcast .
Speaker 1My name is Jamison Keys .
Speaker 2I'm Caroline Hello .
Speaker 1Hi Caroline , how are you ?
Speaker 2I'm good . How are you ?
Speaker 1Very good .
Speaker 2How are you ? Very good . I wanted to tell you about a true crime sports crossover weird thing that happened Okay , I don't know if you've heard about it yet game , the um nfc championship game , where the commanders and the eagles were playing and philadelphia eagles won , and there was a driver that was arguing with people outside the game . And you know , you know how sports games are . Um , yeah , they , they . People get very , very amped up about the sports that they are not playing , which is interesting , you know , I get it . But at the same time it's like , ok , let's keep things in perspective . Right , this person did not keep things in perspective . Let me tell you . So . She , it was a woman , she , interesting .
Speaker 1That's unusual .
Speaker 2It truly was , especially with the sports crossover . I'm like okay , sure . So she got after arguing with people outside of the game about the game , I'm assuming , but it's not confirmed whether she was arguing about the game or about something else and hit people , drove into a crowd with her truck in Philadelphia , near North Broad and Spring Garden streets , around 9.30 pm on January 26th .
Speaker 1So this recent Sunday , so just past Sunday . Wow Was anyone killed .
Speaker 2I don't know if people were killed , but she hit at least 10 people .
Speaker 1Oh my .
Speaker 2God , yeah , she drove into a a crowd and they , they were knocked down . I mean , I saw the video and it literally looked like bowling pins . But exactly , yeah , it looked like bowling pins , like with the momentum of the . You know it . Yeah , it was very scary , and then she drove away .
Speaker 1Oh my god I assume they hope they caught her .
Speaker 2They did , they did . Her name is Rebecca DeShields , she was only 26 . Very strange , and she's charged with aggravated assault , driving without a license , simple assault , reckless driving and a few other related offenses .
Speaker 1Wow , that's almost a terrorist act . I mean that's similar to what happened in New Orleans earlier in the year .
Speaker 2Yeah , so terrorism is typically related to you know ideologies and like well , yeah , ideologies , religion , sexual orientation , race , gender because this is like sports it's not actually considered terrorism , it's just considered assault . And you know manslaughter ? Well , I guess not manslaughter , It'd be attempted murder For sure . But yeah , I hope that you know anyone who was impacted by this is doing OK and I hope that you know people are healing from that , because I'm sure that's that's some serious trauma . You know to be in a crowd . I hate being in crowds , so I know like I can't imagine if something actually happened in a crowd . Um , so trigger warnings today are sexual assault , violence towards women and a near-death experience . This is going to be a traumatic episode for a lot of people . Um , I I think another trigger warning is possibly , like the fear of crowds .
Speaker 1You know , because I have a fear of crowds .
Speaker 2Yeah , I , I don't like you know small spaces . If people are involved like I don't , it's kind of claustrophobia , but not exactly it's crowd . I don't know , maybe there's a word for it I think , think agoraphobia is . I thought that was like spaces open spaces and open spaces but large crowds .
Speaker 1Yeah , absolutely .
Speaker 2Anyway . So be mindful when you listen to this . You probably have heard of it very minimally , but we're going to go deeper into that and just kind of explain what happened .
Speaker 1We're going to go deeper into that and just kind of explain what happened , so that's right .
Speaker 1Caroline , it's not easy being a woman in generally working environments , I know that's right , literally terrible thing from from rape and sexual assault , death , rape , threats , sexual harassment , you know to trolling and gender hate speech , disinformation and smear campaigns and threats against family members of women journalists . They're subject to all those different things . According to the UN expert on freedom , while both men and men and women journalists are exposed to the violence , the threats to their safety in relation to the work attacks women are , you know , gender based are highly it's highly more sexualized online and so on . So it's just a . It's just a different kind of level , absolutely so . Irene Kahn , she's a UN specialist and she reported on the freedom of opinion to express different things and noted attacks on women journalists to you know , try to intimidate and silence them in the public sphere are blatantly violations of the expression , of the right to participate in that .
Speaker 1To that end , there's a lady named Laura Logan and she is and was a CBS journalist .
Speaker 1She's from South Africa , I believe , originally , and she in 2011, . She was covering a momentous event the trial of former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak , who was overthrown and taken out of power . Who was overthrown and taken out of power . The Egyptian army arrested and detained for one night , laura Logan and her CBS crew on February 3rd 2011 , while she was covering the Egyptian revolution , the Arab Spring , however you want to term that . She said she was blindfolded and handcuffed at gunpoint and that the driver , who was a citizen , a resident there , was beaten . Wow , they were advised to leave the country , uh , but were later released . So , on the 11th of february , while covering the celebration in tahir square , uh , following hasnub barik's resignation , the shocking and terrifying incident involving two to three hundred men that lasted for about 25 minutes . She had been reporting on the celebration for about an hour without any incident , when her camera battery failed and one of the Egyptian CBS crew suggested that they leave , telling her that the crowd was making inappropriate sexual comments .
Speaker 2Thank goodness for people who understand . You know the language being there .
Speaker 1Right Now . She hesitated by that because she wanted to be a professional . And then suddenly she felt hands touching her .
Speaker 2Uh , literally the biggest fear as a woman .
Speaker 1And could be heard shouting stop , Just as the camera died . One of the crowds shouted that she was Israeli and she was Jewish and that sort of thing , and according to one of the CBS executives , that was the match to the to the gasoline .
Speaker 2I you know I've seen the video and that might have played a role in it , but I do think that , being a woman there , there it was probably really what was going on right , and she wasn't .
Speaker 1you know , she was dressed just , you know , as as a western , you know western clothing and so on . Um , when she told scott peller from 60 minutes that suddenly , before I even knew what was happening , I felt hands grabbing my breasts and grabbing at my crotch from behind , terrifying Things quickly spiraled out of control .
Speaker 2I think my shirt , my sweater were torn off completely Literally . I can't even imagine .
Speaker 1My shirt was around my neck and I felt a movement that tore at my bra and I felt that it tear out and tear away . They literally tore my pants to shreds . I don't even know , you know , I don't even remember how they were beating me . They were beating me , I think , with flag bowls and sticks and things like that , because I just remember thinking about the sexual assault and the things that were happening and I could just feel the hands , you know , all over me in inappropriate places and so on . She terms that as raping me with her hands .
Speaker 2I mean , yeah , it is .
Speaker 1They were tearing at her body and her hair . They were tearing chunks of hair out of her .
Speaker 2Oh my God , Literally what fucking savagery behavior .
Speaker 1Oh , for sure , For sure . The crowd tore off her clothes and , in her words , were raping her with their hands . They never got her on the ground , fortunately . Um , while taking photographs for their cell phones , uh , they began to pull her body in different directions , pulling at her hair , she said . It seemed like they were trying to , you know , rip her in half . Oh , she was dragged along , uh , you know the crowded area , and was pushed into a fence now , things were pretty dire because she had been there with , uh , a contingent of people you know the crowded area and was pushed into a fence .
Speaker 1Now things were pretty dire because she had been there with a contingent of people , you know , like cameraman . And there was even a gentleman that was trained in the secret . I think he was a Navy SEAL or former , you know , special operations guy .
Speaker 2So a serious , a serious , a serious single , just one one guy and she was .
Speaker 1he was trying to hold onto her . I'm sure he was trying to , but with so many people I don't care .
Speaker 2No , absolutely If you're , you know . I'm sure he tried his best .
Speaker 1Yeah , I'm sure he did . He had a hold of her and then her sleeve gave away and then she would just flow . Yeah , she would just . That is terrifying . Uh , Logan said that she was fighting .
Speaker 2I wouldn't think I would live either . I mean , people are literally ripping out your hair while sexually assaulting you Horrific .
Speaker 1There's no doubt in my mind . She said that I was dying , but thinking about her two children at home , she and you back in Washington DC , she was just focused on staying alive .
Speaker 2That's a mother .
Speaker 1That's a mother . Focused on staying alive , that's a mother , that's a mother , mm-hmm . Eventually , she said , she was rescued by a woman , of course , dressed in black religious robes . She could just see her eyes , she said . I remember saying A nekrab . She put her arms around me , and then the they put her arms around me and the group of women that was there and a couple of men that were kind of waiting there with them formed a failing surround her .
Speaker 2Thank God for them , because they probably saved her life oh . I mean her life is teetering , changed forever , no matter what , but I think they saved her from literally dying .
Speaker 1Right , right For sure .
Speaker 2So for sure , I mean that's crazy .
Speaker 1But the courage . Oh , absolutely Because it wasn't a hundred women , it was a small group of women and men that were camping there because they were celebrating and all that kind of thing , and they formed this protective line around her and they were still trying to get at her . Oh , absolutely . But in the meantime also the producers , the cameramen and the security guy ran to the army and asked them for help . A group of soldiers appeared and they beat back the crowd with batons and one of them threw Logan over his shoulder .
Speaker 2Wow .
Speaker 1She later said that she thought she was dying during the assault . She was flown back to the United States the next day , where she spent four days in the hospital . President barack obama contacted her when she arrived back home . She told cbs news that , uh , that was insane , that was an insane thing . I mean , and you think about it and she's not the only uh female reporter , or reporter , generally speaking , that's ever been attacked or assaulted .
Speaker 2Oh , no , of course not that happens happens for sure , but hers was caught on camera , partially , partially caught on camera , and then people were filming it with their phones .
Speaker 1Right , which is such an unhinged behavior , and I mean you were interested in a lot of different things when you were young . In terms of careers , you're always going to be a teacher . You're going to be this or you're going to be that . I'm glad you never decided I'm going to be an international journalist .
Speaker 2You know me too , especially after that . I mean , I just want to point out you know , the fact that women stepped in to form a barrier between them , between them , and you know it's not like the men in the crowd were not , you know , trying to push these women out of the way , trying to , you know , pull their , pull their , um , their knick-knacks off . You know what I mean . Like they were trying to do , I'm sure of this . Like , I mean , if you think about it logically , it's not like they were like oh it , it's fine , now that she's covered , like okay , we're just going to walk away . No , I'm sure they were literally fighting and beating these women , and they have . I mean , most of them probably don't have any like training to take these beatings right , and so they're just , and they're solely because they know what it's like to be a woman .
Speaker 1Right .
Speaker 2And I just think that's so powerful .
Acts of Courage
Speaker 1Yeah , because she , she , laura , was able to kind of break away and then she was pushed and she kind of fell into the lap of this woman and the woman , um , like she said I'm not sure if she even knows who it was that saved her Right , but she said the woman just wrapped her arms around her and , um , the other women kind of , you know , formed like a bear and then the men that were with them were like throwing water at the crowd and stuff like that , trying to fight them off . But I , I don't know how many there were , but yeah , let's say there were 10 , let's say there were , you know , five women for 200 , for 200 people .
Speaker 1The courage that it takes to stand up against that kind of a threat knowing that that I could be next yep right especially the women too .
Speaker 1Now now , I don't know if , I don't know if the fact that they were , they were their neighbors , they were native to , to egypt , right , I don't know if that had something to do . I don't know if , under their , their system of law , if , um , you know if it's a much bigger offense to harm a woman , especially one that's , you know , dressed in , in , you know , in formal garb and things like . I don't know how that all works , but I know regardless that , my God , that's , that's that's courage that needs to be celebrated , absolutely , um , and and I'm I'm happy that other men and the army was finally , which , army the egyptian army oh wow , that's great , that's great , that's great so they finally you know , finally got them to act and they came with batons and so on and pushed the people back .
Speaker 1They got her over . The guy tosses her over shoulder runs to the tank that was nearby .
Speaker 1I'm not sure if they put her in , I'm not sure what happened , but they got her the hell out of there thank god , yeah , but even though people with their cameras and that sort of thing were there and some of the thing was , uh , filmed before the camera died , um , no one has ever been prosecuted , no one has ever been singled out in terms of doing such a heinous thing . Um , and of course you know there wasn't dna , there wasn't anything , although my god , what a , what a horrendous thing . Um , and of course you know there wasn't dna , there wasn't anything , although , my god , what a , what a horrendous thing , what a brave person to , years later , talk about it yeah .
Speaker 2No , I think it's important and I'm glad she did , although I would respect the decision not to um . I'm happy that she did because it is something that happens to women in general , not even just reporters , but women in general . Especially , you know countries where they don't know the language .
Speaker 1Right .
Speaker 2So people know that , people know like , oh , this person most likely doesn't know this language , and so they take advantage of that . And then they are not used to seeing women in those clothing , in , in , in a , like a Western , you know , sure , clothing , and obviously no victim blaming , you know me .
Speaker 1I would never , never .
Speaker 2I mean women should be allowed to walk down the street naked and not fear for their safety . Do I think that's a good idea ? Probably not . But they should be allowed to because the body like is yours and yours only , and you have to give consent for people to touch your body for sure . Period , doesn't matter what you're wearing , doesn't matter what you're wearing , but , um , I just I think that a lot of things were at play here and you know , it's just . I'm so glad that she's okay .
Speaker 1Right now she's still a reporter . Um , I don't think she works for CBS anymore . I'm not sure exactly what she does do . I know that at one point that I was , I checked on a couple of uh of things and I'm I'm not sure she's been to the back to the Middle East since then and I mean it's very traumatic , Right yeah .
Speaker 1But um , but yeah , I mean , and I think that's a real important part , I think that's a really interesting thing that that one simple act by , by a woman who was in no strong position to oppose a crowd , you know , I think that's so courageous . I just wish we knew who it was . You know , that's a person that that should be celebrated , not just a Nobel Peace Prize ?
Speaker 2Oh my gosh , bravery Prize type of level of bravery , exactly yeah .
Speaker 1Exactly , and I never heard about this thing .
Speaker 2Oh my gosh . I've seen it all over the internet , but I didn't know the full story until you told it to me .
Speaker 1Right .
Speaker 2So it's like I've seen the clip and I'm sure a lot of listeners have seen the clip of you know she's blonde . There's a group of people around her kind of leering at her already .
Speaker 1Right , right .
Speaker 2And um , and then the lights go out and you can hear her scream no , and people are like , like and you feel it Like , you feel chills when you watch this , because you know when the lights go out . Uh , these men are , are not , not up to anything . Good .
Speaker 1It's scary . Uh , these men are are not not up to anything .
Speaker 2Good , it's scary plus there's excuse me , there's the whole crowd um aspect of it
Standing Up Against Gender-Based Violence
Speaker 2all mob mentality yeah , momentality .
Speaker 1There was a movie back in the um 80s I think , called the accused , I think it was . It was a jodie foster movie and , um , she was in a bar one night in this story and she was dancing and having fun , you know , she was doing a little drinking and so on , and this mob of men just suddenly decide that it would be a good idea to , you know , to attack her . And it's a story . It was kind of an interesting story in that her lawyer was played by Kelly McGillis and she , she defended her and so on , but but she was actually guilty also of sort of victim blaming Kelly McGillis's character , her lawyer's character , and she was trying to do a , she was trying to get a settlement , you know . So they didn't have to go to trial and so on .
Speaker 1But because she thought well , she was dressed provocatively , she was drinking , you know , she was dancing provocatively and that sort of thing , none of which matters , yep , none of which matters , yeah , and that's kind of the end , the final result of the movie . One brave dude came forward and said I saw it all , one of my friends actually took part in it , oh and so on , and so it was real interesting , it was shocking at the time , but that's the whole mob mentality and the bystander effect right , right like when people are in shock and they just , they don't , they don't know how to like intervene and they're scared , right .
Speaker 2Right , and the thing that I want to point out too um , you know these , we're talking about a different culture . We're talking about a culture that has a different ideal of women , and you know what women , what women are , worth , right , like , and their position , what , what role women have and I want to be respectful to all cultures , of course , but I do think that played a role in this Um , however , this happens right here in America .
Speaker 1For sure .
Speaker 2And it happened not too long ago I think it was Boston , um , where it was a cruise or a like a ferry ride or something . They were in the water , um , on a boat , and this man , one man , sexually assaulted a woman in front of everyone and no one did anything . I mean it happens here too , you know , and like you said in the , in the movie I mean that women are not overly sexualized , simply because they are women . We're going to continue to see this happen and it's just , I mean , it's deplorable behavior .
Speaker 1Yeah , there's no doubt about that and you know there's a certain matter of you know . I mean you're right about the bystander effect , because yes , it's serious Because seriously , I mean , I'd like to think that if I saw something like that happen directly in front of me and I wasn't , I didn't know the person or whatever I'd like to think that I would wade into that situation and do what I can . But you're thinking there's 200 people . I mean .
Speaker 2I mean you have to understand , yeah .
Speaker 1You could die . You could die , that's right . But at the same time , you know , I think more men have to just absolutely say ah , whatever , you know , if I die , I die , you know nobly .
Speaker 2I think so too , and not even just men , and , like we saw with this , women too , and women do stand up for other women . That's the thing , and I'm very happy for the men who do that too . It's extremely important , um , to you know , making sure people are safe and equality Um . But you know , men really do need to step up , but women , I mean kind of always have been stepping up .
Speaker 2So it's just like you know , we all need to step up and make sure that each other are safe and we're living in a just society .
Speaker 1I saw something recently , I read something online when I was doing research for this and so on , and it was in India . Um , there's a group of grandmothers .
Speaker 2Oh , I told you about this .
Speaker 1Oh , did you ? Yeah , and basically when Mothers and grandmothers Mothers and grandmothers and if a man abuses women in certain parts and I don't remember if it was just a city or if it was just generally speaking there's a group of these mothers and grandmothers that take brooms and they go to the house where this man has abused this woman and they smack him around with brooms yeah , I just I think that's amazing , that is like if and you know people have opinions about this but if you know , if you know that that has happened and no one's doing anything about it , right I ?
Speaker 2I don't blame them for wanting to take justice into their own hands for sure especially , you know , I .
Speaker 2I just think that there's something so disturbing about a man hitting a woman or a man , you know , abusing a woman in any way , because men are naturally extremely stronger . Like I , have been pushed by a man and I was astounded by how strong this not very strong looking man was . So I can't even imagine , you know , like they're really strong , and so to use that kind of power against a woman who is not as strong as you , right , I mean , it's , it's ridiculous but anyways so so yeah , just this was disturbing story .
Speaker 1I'm glad the woman was saved . I'm glad that she didn't have to endure even worse things happening to her . And God , I'm really , I'm really just amazed that in that culture , at that time , that women stepped up , saved this woman , yes , saved her life , saved her life . Stepped up , saved this woman , yes , saved her life , saved her life and and were you know , regardless of the effects ? They just and they didn't do anything aggressively , they didn't try to fight these guys , that which would have been .
Speaker 1It could have been worse they just wrapped themselves around her and kept her safe and probably took quite a beating , quite a beating for the , for this woman , I would think so that they didn't know Right that it looked different from them For sure . Different culture , different religion , everything .
Speaker 2And they have no idea why she's naked . They still . They didn't care . They just took her and protected her , because that's the right thing to do .
Speaker 1Because that's the right thing to do . We should all learn a lesson from that .
Speaker 2Absolutely Stand up for people who look like you and people who don't .
Speaker 1Right .
Speaker 2Follow the show on whatever streaming site you're listening on .
Speaker 1And remember . All of the source material will be available in the show notes .
Speaker 2And follow us on Instagram at whatwelosintheshadows , and let us know if you want to hear a specific case .
Speaker 1Or if you just want to give us some feedback .
Speaker 2Okay , join us in the shadows next Tuesday . Bye .
