Bootstrapping a Six Figure Fashion Brand: The Five Year Hump in Business

Chris Miller joined Jarret Beaudis, a best friend from childhood, in growing the primarily menswear fashion brand Signature, about five years ago. Chris and Jarret seek to fill a gap in the market and have a say in the redesign of fashion by fusing genres together to create the perfect urban workwear. Their clothing is beginning to attract female customers as well, especially with the oversized trend’s recent surge in popularity.

Over five and a half years ago, Jarret started on the journey of being a fashion brand founder. Chris was attending grad school for marketing when Jarett brought him on board, and since then they have streamlined production processes and have a team in Los Angeles that produce the clothing, while the two friends travel around the country to major cities to host pop ups and get the word out about their clothing. If you live in San Francisco (especially Hayes Valley), you may have seen them or their signature jackets by now.

In this episode, we get into the journey of building Signature, including sacrifices, finances, and challenges along the way as well as the recent momentum they’ve experienced and fulfilling moments throughout it all.

Now a six figure clothing business, Signature Innovation Group 40 pop up events planned throughout 15 different cities for 2024. Check out their clothing when you get the chance, especially the Oxford Ranger shirt jacket which is their most popular item, coming in three colors. 

https://www.instagram.com/signatureco_/

https://signatureinnovationgroup.com/

https://www.passionprojectpending.com/

https://www.instagram.com/passionprojectpending/

https://www.tiktok.com/@passionprojectpendingg

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6F0aDS5efhzgaCtYzI7fsA

Transcript

[00:00:00] Really, the start of Signature was really just Jared saving away his pennies, working hard, saving it, and then built up just enough to produce a small batch of clothes. And then from there, he sold the clothes, take the money, put it right back in, made more next time. It's built by itself from the ground up.

I believe the first principle for Signature was going to be that it was going to be American made. We travel around the country. Doing popups. We go into, into the big cities and we set up shop, we play loud music and try and get a little obnoxious and raise some attention and it works for us. People really enjoy it.

I think that's what gets you is filling that buzz for something you've created. We go up to Hayes Valley in San Francisco quite a bit and pop up, and it's pretty wild when you're standing out in the street there and you see three different people with your jacket on.

Chris Miller joined Jared Biotis, a best friend from childhood, in growing the primarily menswear fashion brand [00:01:00] Signature about five years ago. Chris and Jared seek to fill a gap in the market and have a say in the redesign of fashion by fusing genres together to create the perfect urban workwear.

Their clothing is beginning to attract female customers as well, especially with the oversized trends recent surge in popularity. Over five and a half years ago, Jarrett started on the journey of being a fashion brand founder. Chris was attending grad school for marketing when Jarrett brought him on board, and since then they have streamlined production processes.

and have a team in Los Angeles that produce the clothing, while the two friends travel around the country to major cities to host pop ups and get the word out about their clothing. If you live in San Francisco, especially Hayes Valley, you may have seen them or their signature jackets by now. In this episode, we get into the journey of building signature, including sacrifices, finances, and challenges along the way.

As well as the recent momentum they've experienced and fulfilling moments throughout it all. Now a six figure clothing business, Signature Innovation Group has 40 [00:02:00] pop up events planned throughout 15 different cities for 2024. Check out their clothing when you get the chance, especially that Oxford Ranger shirt jacket, which is their most popular item, coming in three different colors.

to start, I was hoping you could give me some background on what you did prior to getting, involved with Signature and starting to work with the project. 

Sure, I was in, business administration in, the building materials industry.

I worked for a company called Riverside Cement, and I handled, their railroad, logistics partners. And did quite a few other things there too, was there, for, almost five years. And, eventually we got bought out, a couple times in, within a year. And my last position there was to, phase out a product, division,, which would effectively phase myself out as well.

But, once that happened, I [00:03:00] was, looking to go back to grad school. And looking for experience in marketing. And I knew Jarrett had been, working on Signature for a while. And I just approached him about that, coming on board and seeing if he needed help at the time. He did it.but , not too much later on.

he had split up with his other business partner and I came on board at that point. he called me up one night and said, would you come over and look at some stuff? And so I went over to his house and he had this wall, with pictures taped on the whole wall And it was a photo of every single person he had ever sold to that year and he asked me if I could look at those and tell him something about his customers and so when That's how it started was, he liked my answer.

So we've been working together ever since then You we grew up in the same neighborhood.his sister and I are the same age and we grew up together. And then I always knew Jared and his [00:04:00] other brother.growing up, we were all friends. It's a pretty tight neighborhood. 

That's awesome. good to hear the story of how you got involved.

And I like that anecdote about him having the pictures taped up on the wall. So I'm curious to know what was your answer to his question about what you noticed about his customers? 

well, down to, they were smart people. 

what, gave you that idea, like just from looking at them? 

they had an artsy ness to them.

, their clothing suggested that they were clever people, paying attentionto all the small details.that and the proximity to San Francisco,

and also the products that they were buying. It just suggested that they were. work for force oriented, you know, somehow that this was going to be their work [00:05:00] attire. 

I see. So they had a, it sounds like they had a very unique style. 

They really did. Yeah. Eccentric people. 

Okay.so can you tell me a little bit about the idea behind.

Signature, what was Jarrett trying to achieve when he started, and then, what have the both of you been working towards?and the time that you've been working 

together. Sure. Well, Jarrett had always, had a, a passion for fashion. he started in high school when he was about 16 or 17, screen printing t shirts and then selling them to, local tattoo parlors and, barbershops, skate shops.

And so he did that for, at least a couple of years.that ended when he kind of got bored with the process of screen printing, felt like he [00:06:00] had, there was nothing left to, to learn there. he had always wanted to,do cut and sell pieces, really design something. from there he started Signature and the, I believe the first principle for Signature was going to be that it was going to be American made.

So that I think came from, We grew up in Fontana, which is about 50 miles east of Los Angeles, and it was home to Kaiser Steel Mill, which, was pretty famous and pumped out a lot of steel was, pretty consequential to World War Two in terms of, Kaiser still was able to pump out enough steel quick enough to get the naval fleet.

up and running.but in our town, we grew up with stories of Kaiser and, knowing people that work there. And so there was, I think that kind of maybe rubbed off, gave us an appreciation for domestically manufactured products. And cause it [00:07:00] was pretty devastating to the town to once Kaiser steel left.

Okay. Like just like a loss of jobs, 

loss of jobs, loss of pride. the demographics changed. people moved out of town, new people came in and it kind of just blew up the community feeling that we had. 

I see. I'm curious, did you and Jarrett ever look into producing the clothing overseas at all? Or from the beginning,, were only interested in producing it locally?

Well, for us, we kind of got boxed in that, LA was the only resource we had access to. So.there was that principle, but then there was also all these benefits of one is it's close to we can be there all the time and keep an eye on [00:08:00] quality, and develop relationships with, the people that are, helping us.

Cause there, there's a bit of a team. It's not just Jared and I, there, there's a digital pattern maker and then there's a physical pattern maker who oversees all the production. He has a few sellers under him.but I, you know, really, I would say like a second principle was going to be quality and LA provides that.

So it was,,, It definitely guided the mission being made in America. 

And are you aware of any of the differences, in like sustainability practices for clothing being produced in America or like in LA versus overseas. Like just curious if you guys have taken that into account at all when figuring out how to produce your 

clothing.

And in [00:09:00] terms of incorporating more sustainability into the product, you mean? Yeah, 

like, like how do you see the differences between producing the clothing in LA versus If you were to outsource that, to a different country.

You know, I think we just, wouldn't be prepared to handle it in another country, to be honest. even here with the close proximity, always something to keep an eye on and we wouldn't have the resources to vet everyone. Overseas and monitor it to make sure that, everyone was being treated ethically.

we have had people approach us about, producing overseas.and it doesn't particularly ever get too far. so it's not something, we've really looked into, so I couldn't tell you much about it. We just know that for what works for us is to, to have it done here in LA. [00:10:00] And., we have a close relationship with everyone that is involved with building the product.

So we're able to gauge their happiness, where they're at, make sure that they feel taken care of. Yeah, 

that's awesome to hear. I'm always curious about. Yeah, with fashion brands, what they think about when deciding where and how to produce their clothing. So that's why I ask, but I also want to know more about, the state of the brand and the clothing and the vibe.

When you joined and started working with Jarrett and how it's kind of progressed since 

then? Sure. so, ,to build up capital, we just started selling whatever we could make. So it wasn't necessarily what we wanted to [00:11:00] make. At times it wasn't attracting the customer that, we ideally want it, but we had to do it to raise money.

So, you know, we're building our team, our manufacturing team. That's what, assembling the team that we have now is what was pivotal and changed it. Now, before that, we had other partners that we worked with. We didn't have our own in house facility in LA. At the time, and we didn't have much design ability either.

there was communication problems with, the pattern makers. Couldn't always get what we wanted. So we had to make what we could make and then sell it. And over time, once we develop, a newer network and raise more money. And develop more skills ourselves, more ability. That's when it, that's when it [00:12:00] changed.

I would say before the brand was more,

sort of, of vintage and artsy looking, and now it's a little more sleek and sophisticated and clean. we have sort of a protocol for how each garment should be made in terms of the quality we expect. We do, bio stitching, which is a pretty advanced stitch, and it's very strong and looks very nice and clean. Even if you don't know what it is or that it's in there, You can tell that there's something about the structure of the clothing., but getting signature to where we wanted it to be and attracting the customer we wanted, That took over five years.once we got to the five year hump,things changed. , Jared became more prolific at designing at that point, all of a sudden he could turn out designs faster.

and now we're able to make. The brand looks more like ourselves now. it, we make what we like to wear. [00:13:00] Yeah. 

Yeah. What is bio 

stitching? To bio stitching? It's,

well, this is kind of a crude way of saying it because I don't really have the technical ability to explain it, but it's, it's like a double stitch that goes in and out. And it's done on this certain machine that, not many people have. There's very few of them, but what it does is it makes the seams flat.

Okay. 

Good to know. Interesting. and it's also nice to hear about the five year hump, being when things really started to flow. I think it's encouraging. To hear as an aspiring entrepreneur, like it's going to take some time. for things to really get better and for you to like, refine your product.

yeah. So it sounds like that's what happened. [00:14:00] 

I would say that you really need that time too. It's, you possibly could get around it, but you wouldn't be as developed. You know, um, it builds confidence when you take real time to do something like that. you know, I think,let's say an investor had come into Signature, three years earlier and we were able to move faster.

I don't think we would have been ready.I mean, we could have done it. We could have pulled it off. But,we're just a lot more sharpened now. You really do need that time. I was talking to someone, a customer that came in our store yesterday and he's a business owner and he just was mentioning to me that he feels like, and I hadn't mentioned to him that it had taken us five years, but he said, You guys must have been around for over five years now.

he said I can tell as a business owner He said i've talked [00:15:00] to a lot of other business owners and it seems like five years is the hump And I told him I agreed and found that to be true it's it's the old, not old but practice makes perfect. Yeah, and we we built this really grassroots.

We just You Started making a product in the back of a van and started traveling around. So that travel as well, you learn more, you meet new people, you build more resources, you get a better realistic feel for your product. You know, sometimes you fall in love with something and not everybody's seeing what you're seeing.

So it's good to give, give us real feedback that way. ,it was incredibly difficult that the amount of.effort and , persistency it took, that stuff sharpens you a lot too. When 

was the five year [00:16:00] mark? 

it was in August, I believe. Okay, so 

recently. Okay, , over the course of those five years, Especially earlier on, what were some challenges, what were some moments where you and Jarrett were really, , maybe facing any struggles?

not, cause like, obviously maybe you don't know it's gonna take five years for you to reach this, get over this hump or something. So were there any, , challenges or struggles you both encountered along the way? Yeah, definitely.

Yes, definitely. there's a lot of frustration that comes with, when you don't have the ability to do something. Take for instance, the website, neither Jared or I are technically trained.and just trying to get that off the ground was really difficult and [00:17:00] took a few tries at it.

I will say in terms of getting to the five year hump, every year you've. Get excited about something and, you feel how much closer you are, but you don't know how far away that is. So every year you feel like, okay, next year's the year we've made all this progress. Look how much progress we've made.

And that's what really gets you excited is. is the metric of the progress. ,it brings about hope and, and new ideas as well. It really just gets you going.but of course, you know, you say it every year, which means it can't be every year. So there's disappointments there where it's like, man, really thought we were going to break through this year.

but even that disappointment turns into fuel and excitement again. Yeah. it really propels you. we've had all kinds of production issues in the past.before we [00:18:00] were able to bring everything in house, where we go and we, we'd have a show, right. And, you know, to go do a pop up somewhere and, production would be late, we'd want to leave on Thursday and we'd have to leave Friday night because things weren't ready until then.

And so you wait till, four o'clock in, in Los Angeles, and then you've got to drive to San Francisco and 4 p. m. in Los Angeles is just like, Hell on earth on the freeway, on the road. It's gonna take so much longer to get there. You're gonna have to drive, get in late at like 1am, get up at 530 to go get ready for the show.

or you get your production and you open it up and the pockets are on backwards and you're like, oh my God, how could this happen? We've got a show.that stuff sharpens you too. It just made us real resourceful. We'd always figure it out somehow. if we got product and all of a sudden we couldn't [00:19:00] use it, it's like, okay, what's plan B?

okay, let's, let's clear out some older inventory and figure out how to do that all of a sudden,You know, there's not necessarily a wrong way, but there's so many different ways you can go ,with your business model, that, that can be confusing sometimes that was a challenge to figure out what was going to be the best model for us before coming up with the pop up model and you find that necessity, dictates a lot of things like the pop up model for us is.

it's what was achievable and what was enjoyable and what gave us a sense of, pride in the brand. 

And so just for listeners, the pop up model, by that you mean you and Jared? 

So signature is, Operations based in L. A. And so that's where we're based, but we travel around the [00:20:00] country doing pop ups, random weekend pop ups.

we go into the big cities and, we set up shop, we play loud music. And try and get a little obnoxious and raise some attention. And it works for us. People really enjoy it. you hear quite a bit and it makes you feel good that, Oh, wow. That's so cool. When you're talking directly to the customers.

They're like, wait, you guys got in this van and drove all the way here to Chicago. Yeah. 

Yeah, that's awesome Yeah, I mean i've seen One of your pop ups at a fair in san francisco. I forget the name of the fair But yeah, it was very like eye catching very cool engaging so I can understand the hype for sure.

And that was inside when we're outside. It's even yeah more of a spectacle Yeah, I 

bet.so like since talking through the challenges that you [00:21:00] faced before this five year hump where things have felt remarkably better, what, why do they feel better? , like what signifies, oh, we're doing better now, at this five year hump?

Uh,the respect that you get, and I don't think that's why we ever did it, but , early on, you get some pats on the back, like, Oh, this is, this is pretty inspiring. Good job. But it's a little pat on the head. Cause you're not there yet. And now people are, come up to us all the time.

Just really amazed, about either the quality of the clothing or the attractiveness of it, or just our story. We're starting to meet people that have heard our story and. come up to us specifically because of that. And they thought that's cool. You know, the signature just might randomly pop up in your neighborhood and it's just two guys.

Doing all the traveling and all the legwork, aside from the production team, which works really hard. [00:22:00] And it is the, the lifeline of the company. yeah, , it's definitely the paths on the back where you can tell like, okay, we've got a product that's respected, that, feels perfected where

there's no issues where somebody likes the clothes, but they can't buy it for some reason. Maybe it doesn't fit perfectly or whatever. that's all gone away. You know, it took a long time to get the fit perfected. it would be like, there would be some gaps in between sizes somehow or things when it lay right.

Now, we feel very comfortable, with the clothing. It speaks for itself. So,, that brings confidence.yeah, I would say was. Getting the product perfected. 

And have you noticed any difference in the success in sales as well? Or like finances now that you feel like you've reached a really good spot with a product? 

For sure. [00:23:00] So we got the product to a level where we wanted it. And then from there, you got to scale your costs back ,, but there's a big balance there because you need to be responsible and.

Make sure it doesn't come at the expense of someone else somehow.yeah, definitely. I'd say the last, well, 2023 is when we saw a really big step financially.so that was sort of, . Tell that,we were doing better. And then, once that happened, then you could kind of feel that , there was something going on, that there was a bit of a buzz for the clothing.

Yeah. And I think that's what really, what gets you is, is feeling that buzz for something you created. we go up to Hayes Valley in San Francisco quite a bit and pop [00:24:00] up. And,it's. Pretty wild when you're standing out in the street there, and you see three different people with your jacket on.

You'll see it quite a bit in Hayes Valley. We went to get something to eat the other night, and two guys that worked in the restaurant were wearing our shirts. Wow, that's awesome. And they're like, hey, there's the signature guys. That's 

so cool. I love. 

Um, 

okay. Well, I'm so glad to hear that. It sounds like it's very well deserved that you've both put in a lot of hard work and your team has as well.

but I also, really want to ask you about the finances throughout the journey. I think. with this podcast, I'm trying to. inform people about entrepreneurship and give realistic stories and insights into how people built their business [00:25:00] and sacrifices they had to make. so I'm curious about when Jarrett started, like what, was he working a job on the side at all?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. 

That's it's really grassroots and, pretty interesting. , Jared worked at in and out as a manager. he started there in high school, worked his way up by the time he was 21 was a manager and had bought a house. And, really ,the start of signature was, really just Jared saving away his pennies.

Yeah. Working hard, saving it, and then built up just enough to produce a small batch of clothes. And then from there, he sold the clothes, take the money, put it right back in, made more next time. So,signature it's built. [00:26:00] By itself, from the ground up , for your listeners.

I mean, there's all kinds of loans and stuff you can get. And we've looked into all of that. And occasionally we've gotten some small loans here and there, for certain projects.and I can give you a little bit more information about how to get those loans to, it was really just, work and sacrifice, being willing to sell a product that.

Likesomebody likes it, but you don't like it yourself. You know, you're thinking like, ah, it's not what I want to do. It doesn't seem very glamorous right now, but that's what we had to do. So slowly we, we just kept selling more and, saving the money, making financial sacrifices in terms of not taking paychecks.

both of us working, other jobs at the time to, to get by. And then, so, you know, work Monday through Friday and take off Friday night,go to San Francisco for the weekend, do a show, come back, [00:27:00] get home Monday morning at like 2 a. m., go to work.

So you both were working full time at one point, other jobs while doing the pop ups?

Yes. . Okay. And how long did you do that and are like, are you still or not anymore? 

Not anymore, no. Okay. I was going to grad school when I first started with Signature and, eventually signature, I, I couldn't do both and I chose Signature and discontinued going to grad school. I don't regret that.

it was cool when I was doing both simultaneously, you could see how things would work hand in hand. But eventually, Signature needed all of my attention. 

Yeah, so you both full time then, and you have a team as well. Right. okay, 

so, the traveling pop ups as well, we'll do some long term ones here and there.

So, like, [00:28:00] right now we have a physical store. in San Francisco for the month of March. So,that's been pretty neat having a place to same place to go every day for a bit. and in terms of, you know, you asked about the financing,I would direct listeners to ,the SBA, they have people that will help you and they want you to get a loan. So they hold your hand and they check up with you. It's kind of like they manage you through the process. And what does that stand for?

boy, I forget now. You said 

D S B A 

S B A. 

Okay. Small business startup grant, 

I think. Yeah. That's one of the programs they have. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, 

they want [00:29:00] you to get a loan. Did you, I think you mentioned you had investors as well? 

no, we've had people, approach us, but nothing that came of it.

Okay, so you've mostly financed through working on the side and then the occasional small loan, but nothing Beyond that is 

that right? Yeah. No one's ever come up and gave us some money or, I mean, we've had offers, but , it hasn't happened. it's all been through, selling product, and supplementing that as well, which we haven't had to do for quite a while, but.

Okay. That's good to hear. And why just out of curiosity, if people would approach you to offer investment. Was that like not the approach you wanted to go in? 

this scenario is just, didn't line up correctly. [00:30:00] It's not that we're opposed to it at all. Yeah. if it were something that would help us grow and, achieve even more in, In the design and production, that'd be great.

We'd love to do that. but we're also fine where we're at, so we don't need to jump into anything that's not right. , once people find out that you have a business that you get people coming at you from everywhere, trying to sell you this or that, and a lot of it sounds great,

when you come to those moments, it seems important to take a step back for a minute. Get away from the emotions of it and really look into it and then do some cost benefit analysis too, if that's relevant,, even just a little bit of it, , can help you make a better decision.

Right. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. 

One [00:31:00] other question about, finances. How is the status of it today? Are you and Jarrett able to, take salaries of your own and just, , live off of what you make?

And, , is the brand profitable? 

yes to both. So, yeah, we got to that point,where we, this is our full time job, this is what we do. but the amount of travel there's, it has to be, and we have to bring the inventory with us. So we have to drive everywhere. We can't really fly.

but yeah, ,we're profitable. We hit the mark, We're not at our ideal margin, but we're within our range that we had set for ourselves.

Thank you. Yeah. that does take time to, to get it to where, the product's profitable. Yeah. We, you know, I would say we never lost money on anything to always break even off of it. I think that's one thing [00:32:00] people. Would worry about is what happens if it, if I can't sell it,you just mark it down and get your money back and get out of there and try again next time.

Yeah. Yeah. 

I would say the way we've gone about it is,

I would imagine it's gotta be one, one of the hardest ways. to do it without an investor, without a big loan, you have to really put yourself out there. that's not for everybody. 

Right. Yeah. It sounds like you have had a lot of success through, literally getting your product in front of people.

And. Big word of mouth, by doing the pop ups, in the future, what do you and Jarrett see for the future of signature? And , do you plan to continue doing the pop ups? I would imagine that's very fulfilling, but also [00:33:00] takes a lot of effort to plan the trips and bring the inventory and everything.

So how do you think about that? 

Well,, it's not something that's going to be sustainable, just he and I doing it and, doesn't offer any growth either. So,the plan is, get a fleet of, pop up trucks and get them out on the road,, get them all going in different directions.

we're starting now to get a following of people that like the brand. And so we do get offers about, Hey,Can I can work for you guys? You need help? can I do an internship? Can I model stuff like that? So,yeah, that's the next step and that's what we're working on right now. And that's, what's taking up a lot of our time is, figuring out how to get all those trucks on the road, how to build up teams.

So I, yeah, the pop up model is definitely, in our future, but just [00:34:00] expand it and more refined each time.

You can picture like a box truck with the inside, done up as a store and parked out on the street. That's what it's going to look like. Gotcha. 

Very cool to hear about plans for the future. ,

we do have wholesale accounts. So wholesale is a part of our business. So that helps us get visibility in different cities and grow.

it's a lot of, men's boutiques. And, in those cases,the men's boutiques typically have a very loyal following that comes in and, they know that they can trust the owners of the boutiques about what's coming out. So it's you know, they lend their credibility to, to you.

And so every time we get a new account, extends our market to the people that believe in that store owner. Yeah. That's 

awesome. what have been your favorites and most fulfilling parts of running signature over the time that you've [00:35:00] been, Working on it. 

I would say.

Okay. So one of the most, fulfilling aspects personally was when, when you lose your self consciousness about it, you know, you, you just don't. Think any more about what the negative, perceptions are, things like that. So getting that type of confidence was a big deal. And it's, something that you kind of realize well, after that transitions happened one day, you just, you look back and you say, wow, I don't even realize how strange this can seem to some people sometimes.

And so that, that was fulfilling. Right.and, having other business owners come to you and ask you for advice or, kind of tell you that they appreciate some of the things you've done, that stuff's fulfilling, because it's [00:36:00] like when you start, none of that's there, nobody's happy for you. friends and family think you're nuts or whatever for pursuing this.

Sure you don't want a job with retirement and this and that.

You know, you don't want your weekends free. Like all that stuff. And getting to the point where you stop thinking about that stuff too, though, that's another sort of pivotal moment and fulfilling aspect.

Yeah, gosh, I really agree, I mean you've been in your business for quite a long time, but I don't know, it would be great to have the stability and guaranteed retirement, but would I be enjoying what I was doing as much as I'm enjoying this?

sometimes there's trade offs to the stable route and look at like what you and Jared have [00:37:00] created. That's so cool. It wouldn't be here if not for all the sacrifices. That I'm sure you both made. So it's a really cool story. You know? 

Thanks. We were talking to another business owner yesterday. he was telling us his story.

And,he's four 40 now. And , he started eight years ago , he had a regular job and he was able to buy a home and, he lived in that home for a while and then one day decided he didn't want to just be stuck. So he sold the house and so he was 32 then.

And he said, that's when my life began. When he wasn't tied to anything, but what he wanted to be tied to. And, I thought that was pretty profound, because you could see in his eyes, he meant it.and I knew what he meant in terms of his life began that, he just [00:38:00] pursued his own path.

and I think that's what people that start a business are looking for. 

Yeah. Yeah, I definitely feel that way myself, which is why I'm here. So yeah.okay. I would love to end with advice you would have for aspiring fashion founders, designers, entrepreneurs, given your experience working in the fashion industry and designing clothing for men.

Is it still just men or is it 

for? We consider it unisex. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And,and. Especially now with we've been doing, we call it urban work where, , I know in women's fashion right now, sort of the Billie Eilish, Naomi Osaka, oversized trends, heavy textures,that's really in it and that's been helping us out too.

So we, we do have quite a few women buyers, a while back, [00:39:00] let's see, I'd say probably, It was three or four years ago. We would get, quite a few women that would say, I love this corduroy jacket. If you ever considered making a women's cut. And so we did eventually we came out with the women's cut and the, women weren't buying it.

They kept buying the men's they liked the oversized boxiness of it. They didn't want that, the taper.so, that was one lesson. Don't always listen to the customer, or at least, approach it with some nuance. yeah,we're unisex and, we've been promoting that lately trying to show some looks for women.

We still call it original menswear that's been our slogan from day one. Yeah.and it always will be because it is basically. Based off a traditional men's designs. 

Yeah, okay. That's funny. so given all the experiences you've had [00:40:00] Like that example, for example,What would you what would be your like first piece of advice for someone who wants to start a fashion brand?

I get asked that by customers quite a bit I asked that twice yesterday and,It, the answer is really, jump in. Advice is just, forget everything. And I guess too short said that first, right? first thing you gotta do is set yourself some goals. Think positive. Everything else is old and that everything else is old is very true.it is beginning a new life. but that shouldn't scare you, but look at it that way is that you are beginning a new lifeand go from there.

Yeah, 

that's great advice. Thank you. yeah, thank you so much. That was great to hear the [00:41:00] story. Of signature and the progression and thanks especially for sharing some insight onto the finances. I think that's really helpful for aspiring entrepreneurs like myself to hear sometimes the reality of how long things take to really gain momentum.

So , thank you so much for your time today. I 

really appreciate it. Yeah, my pleasure.