Passion Project Pending

Health Coaching and Relationship with Food: Cross Promoting your Online Business Across Channels

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#48. Hadlee Garrison started her health coaching business after getting her Masters of Public Health from the University of Michigan. She earned her health coaching certification after going through a health coaching program of the company she interned with during her Masters. In this episode, we discuss the following:

  • The details of her health coaching program focused on relationship with food, healthy habits and improving energy levels
  • The role of Ayurveda in the program
  • Hadlee’s different media channels including a youtube and podcast
  • How her program works
  • My experience with her program
  • Hadlee’s journey to becoming a health coach
  • Nannying as a side hustle when starting
  • Her intended impact
  • Business model of Healthy Habits 

Below are some resources to check out Hadlee's work:


https://www.passionprojectpending.com/

https://www.instagram.com/passionprojectpending/

https://www.tiktok.com/@passionprojectpendingg

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6F0aDS5efhzgaCtYzI7fsA


the problem was for me was that a lot of health stuff was really. Closely tied into body image and what I looked like. I started having really rich conversations with people who were like, Oh yeah, no, I'm really self conscious about my body all the time so I think the lesson is looking at your, quote unquote failures as just ways to narrow in on what you actually do want. You yourself did not really have to sell me on anything. I sought you out. Yeah. was like, is this what you do? This is what I'm looking for. And then I was like, sold How'd they Garrison started her health coaching business after getting her master's of public health from the university of Michigan. She earned her health coaching certification. After going through a health coaching program of the company she interned with during her master's. Her coaching program largely influenced through her own personal experiences and growth focuses on healthy habits to transform your life and improve your energy levels. The program also has a focus on IRA Veda, a holistic system of medicine from ancient India that encourages becoming an active participant in your health. To find as a state of being in which body, mind, soul and senses are in blissful equilibrium. Beyond this program, Hadley hosts a YouTube channel teaching about her learnings as a certified health coach. As well as a podcast with her friend, Dr. Nicole cane focused on natural mental health and wellness strategies. I joined her program about two months ago. And I've since enjoyed the teachings on healthy habits to implement in daily life and how to have a healthier relationship with food. The program is also community-based with weekly calls where, how they focuses on a certain topic. That seems to be top of mind for the group. And this episode, we talk about Holly's journey to becoming a health coach. How she nannied on the side while starting out. Her intended impact business model and more. Thanks for tuning in. I would love to start by asking you about your background and maybe a little bit about Your childhood and what kind of brought you to launching and running the business that you run today? Oh, where do I start? I'll give you the quick version. but I grew up with, an awesome family. My parents are amazing and they were also always into personal development. they were really into health as when I was a kid as well. they were like doing the organic thing before anyone was doing organic, especially in my small town in West Michigan, growing up and the problem was for me was that a lot of health stuff was really. Closely tied into body image and what I looked like. And from the time I was. I remember even before I was 10 years old, like being self conscious in a bathing suit. and that was probably The catalyst for starting my business, because there were so many things that I was doing to try to look a certain way and labeling that as health and really it was never about health or what I felt like, and rather it was about what I could look like, what I should look like. And it was the mindset was if I can make myself Finally lose however much weight or finally look a certain way, then I would be happy. I would have everything figured out. And, I also started and I didn't realize that this is what it was at the, until I was. I think it was in grad school. I hadn't even heard of binge eating disorder. I was never officially diagnosed with binge eating disorder, but once I learned about what it was, I was like, Oh my gosh, I have been binge eating since I was really young. So there was like this dynamic of I, I was really disconnected from my body. And so binge eating or emotionally eating, overeating, whatever you want a numbing mechanism. But then at the same time, I had this need to look a certain way, this desire to, to look a certain way. So I would often go into cycles of deprivation and then binge and deprivation and binge. And it wasn't so common until That was when it was at its peak was when, especially junior year of college, when I really was like doing a lot of binge eating and, doing it when no one else could see me and all of the hidden shame things that come with overeating binge eating. and yeah, so I was always interested in health in even in health, as far as. helping people in the healthcare system. I was pre med when I went to college. I really wanted to help people in terms of their health, but I just had this weird warped sense of what health was, as far as my own experience with it. And so I was just trying to figure stuff out, figure it all out. And I ended up. interning for a company that then, that they have a coaching program. And I took their program before I started becoming certified as a coach with them, but I took their program. That was like my, my, compensation for my internship was I got to do their program and. That started to get me actually more in touch with my body and that sort of started me on this path. And then in grad school, I did a lot of studying like what kinds of, what kinds of food mindsets, body mindsets we have and how those are actually detracting from true health. Okay. That's my story. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing all that. It's very Relatable to myself and many people, as I'm sure you've found with the work that you do. Yeah. Once I started studying this stuff, I in grad school. So I went to school for public health, but specifically specialized in health behavior and health education, because psychology is what I'm most fascinated by. And once I started realizing this stuff for myself, I. Started talking about it with people and realized that before it was always hidden in the shadows and I was like, everyone else has their shit figured out. Sorry. I swore. but like people have their stuff figured out. And then once I started talking about this, I realized that almost every single woman, especially, but even person, like a lot of men struggle with these kinds of things too. And so I just had, I started having really rich conversations with people who were like, Oh yeah, no, I'm like really self conscious about my body all the time. thinking about, I remember vividly thinking about there were a couple of girls. that I was friends with who would go to the gym all the time. And I would go to the gym too. but it was in order to look a certain way. And I would see them and I would be like, if I looked like them, I would never go to the gym. like exercise was not a joyful thing. It is for me now. I love exercise now, but it was such a, it was almost like. Punishing myself for not looking the way I wanted to look. so yeah, once I started talking about this stuff with all of these different people, I was like, Oh, I have to do something with this. there's so it's, there's so much here and it's interesting because we've come a long way. I feel like in terms of, we're not necessarily, we're not doing like the Finspo thing anymore, typically for the most part in our society, it's we want to be more body positive. And so I'm seeing a shift even from when I first started my business six years ago, but. What I have found is that it's actually more in the shadows now than it was before and now it's even less talked about that people are feeling self conscious because they're not supposed to. So I don't know if you saw the Barbie movie. But the, there's a line in America Ferrera, her speech towards the end where she's we're not supposed to want to be thin. We're supposed to want to be healthy, but we can't actually be, not thin. We're supposed to be thin, but not say that we want to be thin. And I was like this, Oh my gosh, this is exactly it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I relate so much. Like when you're talking about the exercise thing, I have definitely recently unpacked that one of my early motivations, like I used to run a lot growing up in high school and it's I don't think when I was running then it was because I wanted to run. And I feel like that's pretty self explanatory, like what that means. And then, Yeah, it's just been interesting, an evolution of my relationship with exercise as well, but then what you were saying about how, yeah, the line from the Barbie movie, it's like, the shame around our bodies, it's become so much more sophisticated and hidden And that doesn't mean that it's healed. But yeah, it's if you speak about your insecurities, that's almost like taboo when in reality I feel like speaking about them and unearthing those feelings and like Sharing those with other people and knowing that like other people feel that way That's like a way to heal that so that's why I really like what you do. Cause it feels like it's just so yeah, needed, yeah. It's very rewarding for sure. To see people that people's transformations from, yeah. Just they're wanting to get healthier and, there's also something I was really frustrated by when I was, In high school and college, mostly in college was, I discovered the body positivity movement, but there, especially at that time, that it was very like not related to health, but I didn't feel good in my body and I wanted to also feel better. And I was like, I really like I'm super on board with body positivity, but like also. I want to be healthy. And so I, my passion is bringing together the, like having that relationship with our body, where we feel good about ourselves while at the same time realizing that yeah, we might not feel the way that we want to feel in our bodies. And there are things that we can do to become healthier as well. And bringing those two things together. And I think it just comes down to. Mind body connection and discovering like our relationship with our bodies. And so a lot of what I do is, a lot of what I do is psychology based behavior, change based, but also is very like somatic and bringing ourselves into our bodies. And it's, that started off with like body scans. And I have since studied a lot of somatic practices and nervous system regulation practices and things like that. And It's taking it even deeper into how do we actually cultivate this relationship with our bodies so that we respect our bodies enough to not just know what our bodies need, but actually desire to give ourselves what our bodies need rather than being like overriding our bodies needs with, whatever numbing mechanism we decide to use. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. yeah, it's very relatable. and yeah, I'm really grateful for your program, which I'm a part of, but, I was hoping you could talk a bit about, Whether you were, like, at what point in your, journey were you at when you decided what to go to grad school for, and, what to specialize in there, and then, how that kind of transitioned into you, building your business. Yeah, totally. I went to school to, to be pre med. I was like, I wanted to be a doctor mostly because I just, they're like being a coach wasn't a thing, when I was going to school. but really what I wanted to do, I saw all of these doctors that were writing books and that were on like, Oprah or like these different TV shows that were That we're sharing about how we could be healthy and we could prevent disease and all of that kind of thing. That was really what I wanted to do. And I just thought that I had to have an MD in order to have the credibility to be able to do that kind of thing. and so that was initially what I wanted going into school. I had read a lot of books in high school about health and, Like the food system. And I was really passionate about that. and then there was, I actually failed a class. So I like, I was a biopsychology, cognitive cognition and neuroscience major, and I was obviously on the pre med path and I failed organic chemistry. I got all that trimester or semester. I got all A's. And a D. And I was like, I feel like this might not be my thing. I got all A's and B's and that one D, I never got a C. I'm like, this is, this seems off for me. And so it was just like a, I was devastated by that. I was, in high school, all A's, the classic. overachiever. and so I was pretty devastated by that, but then it was a kind of one of those moments that I'm so grateful for now where you pivot and as an entrepreneur, that's what you do is pivot. And, my parents were like, if you still want to be a doctor, you can always just take it again. And, and you can also take it at a different school instead of, I was at university of Michigan and it's pretty hard. so they were like, you could try to take that class specifically at a different school or whatever. And I was like, I just, I don't think that I actually want to be doing. Pre med. So that's when I decided that, and I also had a really awesome public health class. Or maybe that was the following semester where I took the public health class and I was like, Oh, this is all about prevention. This is all about helping and helping people on a large scale too. That was a big piece of what I wanted to do too, is have a wide impact. but also help people on a deep, deeper level. So like a deep and wide impact. And so I was like, Oh, public health. Okay, sweet. and I always was passionate about why people do what they do. So that's why I decided to do health behavior and health education to help people be able to change their behaviors. And long story short, I ended up doing a program where I graduated. A semester early so I could do my master's in a year and a half instead of two years, so it was like a five year undergrad and grad program, but I decided to do that because I was so passionate about prevention, behavior change and impact on a wide, a larger scale. And then when I was in grad school, I was, there were a lot of, A lot of things that were a little bit disillusioning. I was like, Oh, this wasn't exactly what I thought it was going to be. There's a lot more like bureaucracy and different things like that. and that's when I interned for a company called yoga healers, what it's called, and they had like a coaching program and. It was about Ayurveda, which I do a lot of stuff with Ayurveda now. I can talk about that if you want. But, and it was about like really just your health habits, tuning into your body, being able to see what your body actually needs, and then. After finishing that, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is absolutely life changing. Everyone needs to know this stuff. And I decided to get certified as a health coach while I was also in grad school, finishing up, so that I could. Right after I was done. With grad school so I could start my business right away and not have to go work for someone, do the side hustle thing. And, I nannied for a long time while I was starting my business. Cause you know, gotta have some money, but yeah, I decided to make the leap. It was a big decision. I was like talking to my parents. I was talking to my boyfriend at the time, who's now my husband. and decided that was the move. yeah. Thank you so much for sharing all that and It's lovely to hear that you encountered something that like resonated so deeply with you like relatively early on because I'm sure that was a good feeling like once you have that moment of oh, this, yes, that helps. I feel like a lot of other pieces fall into place. and that helps push you like on the leap, yeah. Yeah. And I think there were so many moments where it was like, I'm never going to figure out what I want to do, so I don't want people to be like, oh, she's always known when she wanted to do. And so that's why, that's why she can do that. but it's really taking each piece, okay, I failed a class. I'm like, okay. Now I need to reevaluate, do I actually want this? And then it's okay, so now I'm going to grad school, but it doesn't feel quite right. going into the public health field, it just didn't feel like what I actually wanted to be doing. And then. I was able to look for other, look for things that were so non, like unconventional. It was so not the path that you are supposed to take in the public health field or the path of pre med and. yeah, so I think the lesson is like looking at your, quote unquote failures as just like ways to narrow in on what you actually do want. So yeah, the road was not like a linear, Oh, this is easy. Yeah. Yeah. and in my experience, like when I hit those moments where I'm like, this isn't working. I feel like I felt a lot of frustration that the path just can't be more clear and resistance to pivoting because I'm like, this is exhausting. Like it would be so much more convenient and easier if this was just my path. But, yeah, it can just be like tricky. And then in hindsight, I feel like I can look back and be like, Oh, those all were telling you something. And those were useful moments. It just was like, Hard and scary in the moment. Cause you're stay, you feel like you're standing on like shaky ground. Oh my God. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's yeah, you, in the moment, it's so hard to, it's so hard to trust. and you and I were talking about how, talking about like manifestation in the universe and stuff, and I'm a big fan of like manifestation and personal development in general and everything. But yeah, I think like that trust, like faith is basically not even faith until it feels like it's not going to happen or it feels everything is falling apart and then you still trust that like you. Are always on the right path. You're always doing, you can't mess it up. Like you, you are always on the right path. Yeah, definitely. It is just like acting with belief without being able to see the results because at first you can't see the results, you can't see the stability, but you're just like trusting that it will come, which is, A lot, for sure. Really powerful. but, okay, okay, so you have the internship that shows you this. Thing and introduces you to these concepts and these, this coaching, and then you decide this is what you want to do. And then you use nannying to give you some stability on the side while you build. It sounds like, so what was like the process of building? Like, how did you start? Did you take what you knew, what you saw from that coaching and the internships to begin with, or did you, like, how did you approach that? Yeah. So after the internship and after I took the coaching program with them, they have a whole model and everything to help you and get you certified as a health coach as well. and they gave me a model. It has since changed and evolved a ton since then, but that was really helpful because I was like, I don't know what I wanted, like how to create something from scratch. So it didn't feel as scary because it was like, I wasn't creating. A program from scratch. I was tweaking a program that sort of already existed, like a model of a program that sort of already existed. And we were really encouraged to make it our own, and to bring in our own strengths and everything, which I appreciated. but. Yeah, so like I started right after I graduated, I think the week, I think it was like less than a week later, I got my website up and, started, started posting and doing all of the things cause I was really excited about it. I was like, oh my gosh, this is what I want to be doing. And. And then, started talking to people, seeing if they wanted to be clients. And that's always the hardest part is the marketing, once people have taken the programs that I do, the offerings that I do, like they, I, I get really great feedback, but it's typically, getting people in the door. That is the hardest part or has been the hardest part, calling in for it to be much easier going forward. but yeah, so the way that I got clients was a lot of word of mouth, a lot of like friends of friends, also like some just friends in general as well. I had people like, yeah, it was mostly people who like I knew through, through a couple other people until my, I started growing my Instagram and my podcast and growing different avenues. And then, I've had people join since then who have found me on Instagram or whatever, but, but starting out, yeah, it was mostly word of mouth. I see. Okay. That's really helpful to know. And. Yeah, when I joined your program, and I really admired how you had all the different, streams, so you have the YouTube, and then I realized you had a podcast, and then I realized you had, obviously, your Instagram, and then, within the course, you would have, things from, you would, you would, multi purpose use some of these things, which I definitely admire, because smart saves time. And also it's really, I forget what it's called. Like it's not cross promoting. Yeah, I think it is cross promoting. It's when you're talking on your podcast, talking about your Instagram or when you're on your Instagram, talking about your podcast or talking about your YouTube channel so that people are, people in your world are in all of the different areas of your world and, and that's helpful for growth in general as well. but yeah, but also. it's great because I, I'm like, I've already talked about this on the podcast, or I've already talked about this on my YouTube channel, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna add this piece to the program because it's really helpful and I want to make sure that they've seen it, even if they, a lot of people will. Will consume all of my free content before they join the program. but a lot of people have never seen these things and I'm like, these are like the basics that they need to know in order for them to get even more out of the, going deeper on the concepts and everything. yeah, that's why I do it that way. Yeah, that's really interesting. Like I personally did not know about your other content until I joined a course, which is really interesting. Also like one thing, so I've been thinking about like how to market the podcast a lot recently. And so when I'm looking at what other people do very like through a critical lens and like trying to learn from what people have already done. So like in your scenario and other people who's like services I've bought or wanting to be a part of, I find it so interesting because. You yourself did not really have to sell me on anything. I like sought you out. Yeah, was like, is this what you do? This is what I'm looking for. And then I was like, sold, so it's just so interesting how that works. so I was wondering, maybe on that, no, like, how do you find that? do you see that in people sometimes versus more of a, you have to really, Explain in detail what you do before they feel comfortable, working with you. Yeah, it's funny. I've had so many people where, I've had people where I've just, met a person at a party. And then, then they sign up for my program because it's just because of, I think it's because of, The way that I talk about it, and I'm pretty passionate about what I do too. And so that energy comes, comes across, especially in person where people are like, Oh, wait, I've been looking for that. And it just is. It's a lot of serendipity, which is really cool. and yeah, so I've had a lot of people join that way, surprisingly. but then, I've also had people again, like I said, like people will listen to the podcast for a really long time and then they're like. I want to take the next step or whatever. or they'll do a, sometimes I'll host like a challenge, like a five day challenge or a workshop or whatever. And they come to that and they're like, okay, I want to, take the next step, with you on that. And. So there are a lot of, yeah, a lot of different ways that people come in. And I think it just depends on the person. like for me, I feel like a lot of times I am the kind of person that will consume all of the free content, like of a person of a content creator or whatever it is, and then I'm like, okay, now I'm ready to go deeper. And it just, yeah, it just really depends. although there have also been times where I. Where I just meet someone and I'm like, okay, let's do this. So it's just if it just feels right, Yeah. Yeah. That's really interesting thing, but I think I'm definitely like the approach where I'm like, if I get a certain vibe enough and I'm like, I really trust that you like specialize in this. I'm like, say less. I'm going to save time. By just going with you and I trust that you're gonna, you're going to educate me. You're going to help me like get to where I want to go. And I really liked that. I've become a huge proponent of what a lot of people are doing, like yourself through, I think the podcasting and just the speaking to entrepreneurs, I have a lot more trust, that people are like, if people are really specializing in something, That's meaningful, totally. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I know I'm I love that you have realized that and have come to that place because I think a lot of times people are like Oh like it like on the internet, it's weird and I don't want to you know Sign up for something and then not have it. it's also interesting because I think that there's like a mindset of I don't want to sign up for something and have it not be every single thing that I've ever wanted in a program. And I've never taken, I've taken like many coaching programs. I've done a lot of different coaching because I'm a huge believer in it. And none of them have been perfect. None of them have been like everything I needed and they're not supposed to be. I think it's interesting, If we were to go buy a car, like we wouldn't expect that the car would be perfect forever. Or if we were going to go buy like a product, it's like the, we don't expect the person manufacturing the product. We expect like some level of, it shouldn't break right away. We expect some level of, quality, but we don't expect everything to be perfect. And when we do, I think there is a mindset of when we do like an online program, we're like, it has to be a hundred percent perfect. And it has to be the exact way that I think that it should be. At least I did when I was first starting out. And now I've realized like, no, I got so much out of this one because of this thing. And then I got so much out of this one because of this thing. And I get to decide what works for me and leave the stuff that doesn't work for me and go forward. And that's a big piece of what we do in happy, healthy habits as well, which is my coaching program is I never want people to feel like. I'm the authority of their body of what their body needs. Like my goal is to help people actually be able to decipher for themselves. does this feel right to me? And so that's that hopefully permeates through everything that we talk about as well. And I, I hear from people that it does. yeah. Yeah. That's a really good point. and it must be a tricky balance to strike. You want people to get the most out of your program without, telling them what to take away, yeah. but, so like, when, so it sounds like you got this health coaching certification early on. Could you talk a little bit about what that entailed? And then maybe if it, if you've added anything in, since then with what you do now, or is it different than that initial certification you got? Totally. Yeah. It's so different now. the initial certification was, was helping people implement these 10 habits. Of Ayurveda, which I always describe Ayurveda as just. it actually translates to the science of life. it's an ancient Indian health system and the word Ayurveda translates to the science of life. I always say that it's like how to have a human body, and mind because our minds and bodies are inextricably connected. but Initially it was like taking people through a 10 week program where they had one habit each week. I found that was pretty overwhelming for people. and so I have since then evolved the program so that it's now four or three pillars. the first pillar is four habits. The kind of the first four habits from the initial program where we just really hone in on. Your circadian rhythm, what your body naturally needs in order to thrive on a day to day basis. Those are like the basics of health. And then the second pillar is food and food psychology, body image, all of that stuff is really in there. And then the third pillar is nervous system regulation and emotion processing. And. I do that last because having those habits first is going to make it a lot easier for you to be able to regulate your nervous system. A lot of times people are like, you got to regulate your nervous system first, but we're fighting an uphill battle with that unless we have those first four habits put into place. So I've Shifted it so that instead of 10 habits, it's like it's three pillars. And then there's modules within each of those pillars. and it makes it a little bit more manageable for people. I also used to do it so that every week on our live calls, cause I do a weekly live group call with everyone. It was, it was like, we were doing the habit of the week on each of those and to be honest. I got bored because I was talking about the same thing every single time. and then there were also like a couple things that I felt like we're missing from the 10 habits. So I I've shifted it. So it's not 10 habits anymore. And, there are things that, like the emotion processing piece is really important for, even for tackling your relationship with food. And also being able to have the kind of energy that you want to have, because I sometimes call myself an energy optimization coach, because it's that's what people get out of the program is like their energy is optimized. and, they actually have the kind of energy levels and capacity that they want to have. But so yeah, so those are like the three pillars, that's how it has shifted and now the live calls that I do with everyone are based on what I'm feeling into from the community is needed. So we have a, we have an app that people post, what they're struggling with, what wins they're having, all of that kind of thing, and so I get a pulse throughout the week. Okay. What are people. Working on what's the energy of the group. And then I create a lesson based on that. And that seems to work even better because it's so salient to what people are actually experiencing. Okay. Yeah. It's lovely to know like the different iterations that you've made, like through learning, like what has worked well and what hasn't, and then, so it sounds like the, Was the initial certification that you got, or like the help coaching Was that just from doing the program like that they had and then like also Ayurveda? Yes, so they had a program it was called body thrive and that was the Ayurveda like it was the ten habits all of that so I went through that as just like a student of that program. and then they had a certification program that taught you how to coach in a similar fashion to the Body Thrive program. And so the coaching certification was what I ended up doing while I was in grad school, my last year of grad school. and that was called, yoga health coaching. So they call it that because. Or I don't even know if they call it that still, but they did call it that then because Ayurveda was so unknown. So they're like, okay, yoga, health coaching, cause it's yoga and Ayurveda are very closely connected. and so that's why they, that's why it was called that. But, but yeah, so it was, there was two separate things. Okay. Okay. as you started to build out your program and make improvements and. See what was working and what wasn't like, how was that process with learning how to make money off of it and learning like different, like income streams? Like, how did you and also I'm just like thinking about my experience right now. Like, how did you think about, oh, how am I going to make money from this in the beginning? And did that change at all as like you actually implemented the course and saw what was working? Oh, such a good question. I think I want to start with the fact that there was a lot of, so in, in a lot of helping fields, There's this kind of taboo around money where if people need help, the idea is that you're not supposed to charge for that. So I had to overcome a lot with that. It was, The like noble fields, like social work, or even coaching or like yoga, teaching all of these things, are helping people so much, but they're the ones that make like nothing. and even as well, actually. So I took a, what was it called? Social entrepreneurship class in grad school, at the business school. That was really fascinating because they were talking about in like nonprofits, how there's this idea that when people donate money, they want all of the money that they're donating to these nonprofits to go to, whatever the actual cause is. And if they, if people see that too much of the money is going to, people's salaries, they don't want to donate anymore. And it's a really backwards thing because we need people to make a, we want people to make a lot of money in nonprofits because then they're going to help more people. and so that was a really like eyeopening class for me and an eyeopening, There was one specific class where we talked about that. And I was like, Oh my gosh, this is so true. And so that was definitely a thing that I had to work through was like, it's okay for me to make money. It's okay for me to charge people. And at first I was of the mindset of not everyone needs to buy into the idea that. the program with a lot of monetary value. maybe they'll still get a lot out of it, whatever. But I did a lot of like work trades and different things starting out where I was like, Oh, if you work this amount of hours, as like a, yeah, like a work trade, then you don't have to pay. And I have since kind of stopped doing that. There have been a few instances where like very specific instances, but I have since stopped doing that just because it never was fruitful for the person that was doing the program because they weren't. They weren't bought in, like it actually does make a difference. And I heard that from people, I heard that from like business coaches and stuff, unless people are bought in, they're not actually going to do the program. And I was like, yeah, but is that really true? are they just saying that so that you buy into their program? like I was like, okay, that seems a little salesy. I don't know. But since, since doing this for six years, I have realized that, yeah, it's pretty true. Almost across the board. There's a rare person that has come through that, did like a work trade situation where they got a lot out of it, but it's pretty, pretty rare. so that's the first thing that I'll say is like the financials were a lot of mindset stuff, especially at the beginning. Especially, yeah, in these like helping fields. I don't know. Is that something that you come across a lot for people? that's actually like super interesting because I don't think I've really had a conversation about this before, but it is really interesting because I can see how you would feel that way. and not to mention, no matter what your business or product is. I feel like there's imposter syndrome when you're starting out about charging so then add in the level of like This complicated like your health you need help. I have something that can help you I'm, not sure like I don't feel great about making you pay oh gosh, I can see what how that would be really confusing and The thing you brought up too about like non profits That really fascinates me because like I remember being in school and being like Yeah, like all these other professions seem like all well and good, but I hear that it's very hard to make a living off of them, and they're like very hard, like social work I've heard is like a very like, emotional, emotionally taxing field, and it's it's frustrating, that it's so skewed, cause other very profitable industries, So it's like, where's the incentivization to do this kind of work where you're helping, people who really need it? so I just find that, really interesting. Yeah, it's so fascinating that people are like, oh, yeah, I'm down with, this hedge fund owner making, this much money, but I'm not down with if you're helping people. I'm not done with you making money. What? so yeah, it's just this very like backwards thing. and. Yeah. I don't know why we've internalized that as a society, but for whatever reason we have. and so I love that you like that you're having these kinds of conversations with entrepreneurs and stuff because yeah, it like brings these conversations to the surface. It's awesome. Yeah. It's so interesting. okay. So to now think about what you do and so you, what helps you get over this? Yeah. and do you, is the majority of how you make money through people enrolling in your program? Yeah. Yeah. I do different events and different things. I've done, I have a few different, like lower cost offerings. Like I have a mini course. so like people will do those before they come into the program. The the bigger coaching program. but yeah, the, for the most part, the majority is I make, I make money through people joining the program and, I have, I've done a ton of work, like to answer your question about like, how did I overcome that I've done a lot of inner work. I listen to a lot of, podcasts and I've done a lot of coaching around my money mindset too. and it's interesting because there are so many people who are like, will happily pay to work with me. And they do. And, They want to pay because they're like, I want this investment in myself. And they're not like trying to get a discount or trying it. they're just like, no, I want to do this. So let's make it work. And. And I used to try to convince people, but, and then I would end up being like, we could try to do like a work trade or do like a different thing or whatever. Now, I, now I just focus my efforts on the people who are willing to pay and who do want to, who do want to invest in themselves and then I kind The ripple effect from those people will ultimately like help the people around them and stuff. And, cause yeah, I've had, I think that's probably the hardest part of my job is seeing people that I know that I can help who aren't willing to make that investment in themselves and who really like. Yeah. Who would be like such a great fit for the program, but, and for, yeah, for the work that I do, but then, but they just talk themselves out of it because they've either like never made an investment like this before in themselves, or they don't feel like worthy enough to make an investment in themselves. Like I've had people be like, I am saving up to. Do this thing for my kids or I'm, I've had people be like, I can't do your program because I'm going to, Disney world or I'm going to Italy or whatever. and that's totally fine. I like, I trust that whatever they need to do, they need to do. and there's a really funny SNL skit. Where this guy, it's Adam Sandler. It's a really old one and I forget what it's called, but he's like a, he's in Italy. He's a like tour guide in Italy and he's talking about how he's we can take you to the Coliseum. We can take you to get pizza, but we can't. Make you a happier person. Like the same you that's coming from home is going to be the same person in Italy. And I think it's just such a great example of that because I'm like, just because you go to Italy does not mean that you're going to Italy, wherever, whatever, doesn't mean that you're actually going to change things. For yourself, it's an escape for however long and you might need that. And that's great. And that's wonderful. but like investing in yourself, like we think that there are certain things that were, that are okay to invest in education, travel, a house. Even we even go into debt for education and for a house, but we're not willing to invest in ourselves. And so that's the hardest part I think of my job is, yeah, is talking to people that I'm like, Oh, things could change for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's always sad. But I feel like it comes down to if they don't have that as a value or see the value and it like, You can't make them see that, that's ultimately a decision they have to Make for themselves, but it's really interesting to think about that. I feel like there's so many things I could ask you, but I only have five minutes left. So I'm just, I have to do another episode. I know. but I'm trying to think, okay. So I think One quick question on, the business side of things that I don't want to miss is, with your current, business model or how you make money from your course, in theory, the amount of, you already have, like, all the content there, and then you have, the calls that are, like, every week, but that's not necessarily dependent on, Like nothing's going to change if your program was to like blow off and gain a bunch of traction, like your workload, would it really change? that's how I've designed it. Yeah. Yeah. So hopefully, so yeah, so I do a. Weekly call with all of my clients. and then I do a monthly somatic, like nervous system regulation kind of practice. but yeah, the only thing would be if people then also signed up for one on ones. So I don't do any one on ones outside of people who are in or have been in my program, because just because I know that. I'm not going to be able to help people as deeply unless they go through the actual program itself and get these habits down and stuff. but. if, so if people were to sign up for the one on ones on top of the program, then I would have more of a workload, but yeah, if, if I had a thousand people in, I would still have the same workload, which is definitely by design. Yeah. Yeah. That's super interesting. I'm like very cool. Cause then. I feel like it can help you on your priorities. It's okay, like market what I already have to people like find those people who don't know about this, but it's going to serve them. So I find that like really fascinating. as I'm trying to figure out, a revenue model for. Whatever. It's a journey right now, but, it's just interesting and it's very savvy. Thank you. I've had plenty of help with like business coaches and different like mentors and stuff for sure. So it's not all my doing at all. but yeah, I'm really grateful for the support that I've had to figure, figure this stuff out. Cause the entrepreneur journey is not. I think it's interesting. Cause I think the entrepreneur journey is very romanticized in our culture. And, Oh, I'm working on the beach and the passive income and you and I have talked about this where it's passive income, yes, there's, there are things that you can create that are passive income, but you still have to market it. You still have to get people in the door. So yeah, so having like more of a realistic view of entrepreneurship, I think is so needed. So I'm so glad you're doing this podcast because I, I think more people need to hear that. Cause I, I've just seen so many people like try to do the entrepreneurship thing just because they were roped in from that romanticization of it. And they're like, Oh, actually this is like really hard and I don't really want to be doing this. yeah. Yeah, totally. Like my mindset has completely changed since starting it. I used to think of, entrepreneurship as maybe something with like fundraising or VC investing. And it's no, like that's not the only way. And that would bring on a whole other slew of stressors that you probably wouldn't even be aware of when you started. and that's a whole side spiel, but. TLDR, yeah, there's more to it than you'd think from just seeing people on social media who have maybe found some success or are posting maybe just about the high points. But, okay, two more questions. One is, so just based on like where you are now with your business, what are maybe like some things that you think about? Implementing in the future or like where you'd like to go. Ooh, that's a fun question. Yeah. I'm a big fan of dreaming up like big, bold, audacious goals. I love doing that. I think that my next move is I would love to do some more in person things. So like right now, everything that I do pretty much is virtual. except for, I've done a few events, in person events. Throughout the years. but I would really like to, now that I'm actually In one place. Cause I've been traveling for the past. I've been in San Diego for a year before that I was traveling all around the world, living all over the place, doing that romanticized entrepreneur thing, which it actually was amazing, but, but I think going forward, I would love to do. Not only more in person events, but also potentially having a VIP in person version of my online program. So having a get togethers on a weekly basis for a three month period where we go through all of the things together and, in person you can even, you can have even more interaction between people. I'm a really big fan of group dynamics. I think that my program is more effective because it's a group program. A lot of times people think that. Oh, one on one is better, but if you can't afford one on one, then you should do a group program. But the way I do it, I truly believe that people get more out of it than they could with me just one on one coaching them. and you can even do even more of that in person. And so I'm hoping to bring that some of that in, in the near future. Yeah. That sounds like it'd be really lovely and rewarding to especially face to face, like really lovely. Okay, my last question, I'm starting a new tradition where I ask my current guest to ask a question for the next guest. Oh, I would love if you could think of a question, that you will have for the next guest, who will also be an entrepreneur. I love it. Yeah. Ooh. I think my question would be if you could do anything and anything you want, and it would be. It would automatically be successful and no one would be mad at you for doing it. What would you do? Yeah, very freeing great question Because I think a lot of times we talk ourselves out of our desires because someone's gonna be mad or someone's gonna judge us or someone's gonna Be, annoyed with us or whatever, or we're too afraid to start because we might fail and that would be embarrassing. So what if we didn't have any of those things and we just actually allowed ourselves to desire what we actually desire. Yeah, what would you do if you could not fail for sure? It's powerful. Yes, I encourage everyone to ask themselves that who's listening. yeah, definitely. Yeah, I know. okay. that's all I have for today, Hadley, but thank you so much. It's so lovely chatting with you. I feel like we, I would be happy to chat for much longer. It's just, I definitely, value what you're doing. So it's just like very impactful. And I'm really glad that I got the opportunity to like, have you on the show and have you be able to chat about what you do. So it's just great. So thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, this was super fun. We'll have to do it again sometime. Yeah, definitely.