#62. Girard Gourmet: What I Learned from the Owners of a Beloved Bakery in La Jolla, San Diego

I worked at a bakery in La Jolla, San Diego this fall when I had no money and no job and many expenses after moving across the country!!

This bakery, Girard Gourmet, welcomed me with open arms and I learned a lot through working there.

The owners, Diana and Francois, let me interview them about their experience running this place for nearly 40 decades.

Through another story that defies expectations, I share about/how:

• Past experiences shaped how they run the business
• Importance of good customer service
• What a strong community looks like
• Difficulties of running a brick and mortar cafe
• What it means to be a good employee

And so much more. Tune in to have your heart feel warm and fuzzy.

Transcript

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So I am really looking forward to today's episode I'm gonna try a new format where I basically just monologue at you about. A business and this type of format is inspired by Founders Podcast, which is where this guy basically just reads autobiographies of famous founders and like distills them down into lessons. And I. It's very concise, it's very informative, and so I got this idea to do this since the business I'm about to tell you about is unique and doing an audio interview didn't seem. That feasible. So lemme give you a brief introduction to this business. When I first moved to San Diego, I did not have a tech job. As you will have heard, if you've listened to any previous episodes, any recent episodes did not have money. Needed money for rent and car payment and other things. Yeah, some interesting financial decisions were made during this time. So I needed money and. I had been a waitress in the past, so at first I attempted to get jobs, a waitress at restaurants around San Diego, and that wasn't really working actually, right when I got here, I interviewed at this really good bakery nearby but they wouldn't hire me because they wanted a resume in the interview and I had coding on my resume and they were asking how long I would be available, and I was honest with them and said I was looking for a role and they were looking for someone that was more long-term and I encountered similar issues when looking to work at other restaurants. However, one day, kind of a funny story, I had a spreadsheet with links to different establishments around San Diego that I was planning to contact or apply to, or go and drop off my resume at. And there was this one place that I had put on there a while ago. But I would put places on there and leave it because it just felt kind of weird to me to um, go to these places. It was like the feeling of before you know, you need to do something, but you haven't fully accepted it yet. That was what I was like in this state, so I was like, resisting. Going and um, applying to a lot of these places. One day I just snapped was feeling really anxious about money and recruiting and how long I was taking. So I just called a couple places or maybe just this place, someone answered the phone, said, you can come in now to speak to the owner if you're available. And I was like, okay. Let's go. So I immediately went and walked in, met the owner who's a sweet lady who a great portion of this episode will be about, and we just had a casual conversation. She didn't even ask for my resume. I told her the reality of my situation, how I just moved here. I needed money. And I like bakeries and I was ready to work. It was a bakery I'd actually been to previously, but I didn't really put that together until later. And she hired me on the spot. She was like, can you come in soon? And I was like, yes, I can. I'm ready. Put me in. Put me in coach. Literally the vibe. And yeah, I consider myself very lucky. But that's how it worked out. And that was in like, I think November of last year. And then I started working there and it was truly so healing, which is just one of the reasons I wanted to do this episode, so this episode is going to be business related. I'm gonna be talking about some of the things I observed there through working there. And this bakery has been there for 37, 38 years, so obviously they're doing something right. And I think it was really valuable for me to be able to just like witness and be a part of it. But it was just a great experience because so many reasons first of all, and I'll just spend a brief moment of time speaking about this before I get into what I learned through talking to the owners. But first of all, I had been coming from a pretty isolating chapter of like solo entrepreneurship and then now recruiting. And that's something that like, typically you're doing all alone, like all remote. And so now I would get these little snippets. I would work like three days a week of working in person customer service food service, like this bakery, we had like baked goods, but like also like food sandwiches. It was like a deli and like coffee and all different sorts of customers in. The La Jolla area, which is where it was. And then there were always people working in the kitchen and like three to like six plus of us at any given time working the front counter, working with customers. So it was just really nice to be working on a team, like working with people, speaking with 'em. Even just the experience of giving people their food and like smiling at them and like, no one is unhappy when they leave a bakery with delicious food. Yeah, it was just really nice and really needed for me personally. During that time, I also came to see that a lot of the people who worked there had been there for decades. So that's what we would call strong tenure. Tenure Similarly to Apple, actually. Both places I have worked with reported long tenure. But yeah, it was just the sweetest environment. There were lots of regulars who I came to recognize and know the names of as well as their dogs. Lots of Spanish speaking as well in there, either through the employees or some of the regular customers. And like I mentioned, there was just a strong community energy, which was really special. And I felt really lucky to be like a part of that. And I wrote this down in my outline, but it was just really easy to be warm there because that was just the vibe and that is truly the case. Like I feel like pretty much the majority of my interactions in there, whether it was with my coworkers or the customers, was just like warm. And that was. So lovely. As someone who has either been doing remote or completely solo work for five years at this point yeah, that was really nice. And when I had worked at restaurants, like in high school and college over the summer, I remember like just how comforting it was to feel that camaraderie and the casualness, especially those environments, it's not the same as corporate where you have to kind of like be professional um, which is like good and bad of course, but it was just like really cute to feel like a part of something like that again after all these years. And I worked with people in high school, I worked with people in college. I worked with people who were decades older than me with completely different backgrounds. That's also something that I really enjoy, like being around people with different backgrounds. And yeah, it just made me realize that unless I go out and find ways to incorporate that, I'm typically surrounded by a lot of people that are really similar to me. And I don't always sometimes I like the diversity. Like I think it's really good to have that diversity around you. Moving on in this episode, I'm going to go over my conversations with the owners, Diana and Francois. That is the couple that owns Gerard Gourmet. They've owned it, like I said, for 37, 38 years. Could even be more than that honestly. But yeah, pretty incredible. They both sat down and chatted with me and I asked 'em all about the history of starting the police experiences they had before what it's been like running it, being a part of this community. And yeah, I should say I witnessed the role that they played in this community as an employee of theirs, but they're definitely like a cherished member, cherished members of the La Jolla community, lots of people coming in to do business with 'em. Buy their food, hire them for catering, and it always seems to be a positive interaction. And so I just was really excited to see what their experience has been like. And yeah, I just was looking forward to this. I thought it might be like quite different than some of the stuff I've done before, which really excites me. So getting into my chat with Diana, as I mentioned in my anecdote about being hired very sweet of her to give me a job without knowing a lot about me. I really appreciate that. In my conversation with her, I got the timeline of her experiences as well as the vibe of the bakery. Yeah, I'll start with what I learned from her about her background. So I, her primary, like first work experience was actually starting this private elementary school in Houston, Texas that lasted for about 15 years. She, quote unquote said it was a product of its time around the late sixties and early seventies when people were looking for alternative ways of doing things. So it fell into the category of an alternative school, not to unlike a Montessori school. And it tried to focus on the individual needs of the children. And she tried to cultivate a sense of community through that. For a few years they had as many as 80 students. And that was pretty much straight out of college that she started doing that, which is pretty wild. And then for two years, I think at first she, for two years out of college, at first she worked for the National Student Association, which is where she met some people who I think either facilitated this. School or gave her the idea. But regardless when she was working for the National Student Association, she partly worked on membership and also worked on a grant for student suicide prevention. She studied political science in college and as for the National Student Association, she doesn't know if it still exists, but, it was an organization mostly of people involved in student government who met together once a year to share ideas and share programs. But then she connected with a group of architects connected with the University of Houston, and something about this relationship like facilitated her idea to start this school. And it was like a school in an old house and it moved multiple times. And this is how she actually met Francois, who ended up becoming her husband. And they are the owners of Gerard Gourmet. um, They met in 1978. He was a single parent and his son. Wasn't happy at his current school, and a friend of his suggested that he try Diana's school, and so that's how they met. But yeah. More about the school. It sounds like it was like experiential learning. Learning by doing, learning by teaching to the individual instead of just a set curriculum. So classes were small and , the little money that they had was spent on equipment for math books, for reading, field trips, camping. Most of the students were able to make a transition to public schools eventually, but she funded the school. And the people who worked for her through the tuition and occasional parent fundraisers, she did have wonderful teachers while there, she had a board of directors, although money was always tight, and it was a 5 0 1 c nonprofit, so she was responsible for managing all of that. I asked her about what she learned through all that, and she said that she learned how to speak positively to the situation. Also learned how to, I think, develop relationships with the parents since she had to enroll people. And then also it was not a traditional schooling system, so she had to find ways to get the parents to be interested. And then enrollment was like more of a process. So definitely building relationships. I asked her how it evolved over the years and she said it just grew. It was a natural growth. And they eventually added more grades, but it was always a challenge. But they did to find new buildings, but they did, they made it work. However, it came to a point that it needed to become a more traditional private school. So after 15 years the finances just became too difficult. She said that everyone got paid except for her, and it was time for someone with other skills to take over. So what happened is, another woman who wanted to start a preschool took it over, but she wasn't willing to make the tuition increases and the changes that Diana thought needed to be made. So after two or three years, she closed it. However, I thought that part of Diana's experience was super interesting, given that in a way it's like an entrepreneurial endeavor to open a school, a nonprofit, like an organization. So I just thought that was so fascinating and wanted to know how that had tied into her experience here, because as you'll hear me talk about in a bit here Diana has like a very like warm, welcoming energy and the way that she has probably been the main contributor to the community vibe in this bakery, this deli, this cafe, I just wanted to know like where that had come from. So hearing that she had started like a children's school was very intriguing to me and I really wanted to know more about that. So after that, she moved to Washington DC where she had always wanted to live and she had friends. She ended up, she had never had to look for a job before she said, but she ended up with a job with a Child Welfare League of America which was doing foster and childcare. She was the conference coordinator for a year, and she could have gone on there, but a member of her old board at the school was also on the board of an organization called the Closeup Foundation, which was for citizenship education and that had just got funding for a middle school program. So she spent two to three years there. Her job was to get the program out to schools., I asked her what that experience was like working for the Closeup Foundation and she said that her, boss was the leading citizenship educator in the country and had written textbooks in all the schools. So she took her under her wing and she was a wonderful mentor. They went to all the major educational conferences and talked to booths and teachers and principals about their program, and they had over a million kids enrolled. Citizenship education. I inquired what specifically that was. She said an introduction to how government works, the constitution. And their program. We combined to teach some American history, but also learned research skills and also did a community involvement project, but that also stopped getting funding. I asked her about what she learned from that. She said, learned about functioning in a larger organization and that she had some useful skills. So it sounded like she built confidence while there. Yeah, and another thing she mentioned is that one of her biggest mistakes looking back was not taking advantage of resources from college. She said that a lot of her opportunities she stumbled into because of who she knew, which apparently turned out to be incredibly important. Yeah. So that was interesting. But while she was at the Closeup Foundation, she traveled a lot to national education conferences, some of which were in California where Francoise was. She had this legendary quote, she said they didn't know that they were underwriting this long distance relationship. But he actually had just started Gerard Gourmet as a restaurant a couple years prior. In La Jolla, and she was 43 and single. She is an only child, had no relatives, and she had a moment where she realized that if she wanted to have family in her life, then she had to create it for herself. So this is something that she shared. When reflecting on the decision to move to California and begin helping Francoise with the restaurant, the cafe. And so she said, she had a friend that said, the minute you're ready, Francoise will propose. And so later that year he proposed and he was asking her if she would come manage. The restaurant, the cafe. She said she didn't know a thing about managing a restaurant and was having a pretty good time in Washington. So she wasn't going to pack up and leave everything unless she had a reason for it. So he proposed, she said yes, they got married, had a three day honeymoon, and then she came to help him with Gerard Gourmet. So here we go. Okay. So I asked her what was it like when you came in and started helping? And she said that, she slowly was like learning how to do this thing. Like she didn't know what it was like to manage a restaurant. Yeah, I, she said it was different than how it is now. It's just the same, but more of it. Francois was already doing some catering, but she said that she thinks she had the chance to get to know the community a little bit, who's who and what organizations make a difference and to get to know some of these people and some of these organizations and begin working with 'em. So they started asking 'em to do smart catering, and I think she says that's a part that she's enjoyed the most being around generations of families in town and becoming a part of the community. And yeah, we talked a little bit about relationship building'cause I told her that seemed like that was a great skill of hers. I asked her about being a brick and mortar establishment in the area for so many years asking what it's been like to see probably so many changes and what that's been like. And she said yes and no. There were periods where the street was practically empty. No retail more than just Covid the economy. But La Jolla is a very special community. There's old money. There's new money, there's science. The university this, I love this quote, one of her favorite things is to be looking down the line of customers coming in. It's a very like, narrow place. We have workers behind the counter and then customers on the other side. But one of her favorite things was to be looking down the line and to see some of La Jolla's captains of industry next to someone's maid, and they're all treated just the same. Love that quote. And she mentioned something like that when I first came in to chat with her and met her. And I just love that so much. Like she said something like, you never know who you're gonna be serving, and I love that. So that really stuck with me. But she said, because she's there all the time and she really is, she and Francois go into work every single day except for some holidays, but even then sometimes they're open for a couple hours. It's crazy. But because she's there all the time. When I was talking about La Joa changing, she said, I don't even see that much because I'm here so much. But I do see. People's commitment to keeping some of the local nonprofits going. Yeah. She then went on to talk about how one of her favorite things is that everything is named scripts here, there she recommended a book about Ellen Scripps, who was one of the early self liberated women who got fortune from. Founding newspaper business with her brother and then donated a lot to the La Jolla community.. But basically she, I. Reading that biography creates a deeper context for the La Jolla area, which is super interesting. But so many of the things that make LA Jolla, she was responsible for. And it's amazing that they're all still here from creating the children's pool to the La Jolla Women's Club, the Bishop School, the library at the Atheneum. Scripps Oceanography, all these things that she laid the foundation for. So the backbone and strength of the community in many ways when she sees kids that went to high school here and she is, and they have no idea who she is, she thinks that's a huge mistake because very few communities can have such a direct line. Um, But she just loves the story of this woman.. Anyway, that's a little sidebar that we got into. But then she went on to say that She talks about how like working at the Closeup Foundation was really wonderful because it was the first time she had a regular salary. But other than that, the school had lots of challenges. And then here at Drag Gourmet, whether it's. Things with managing employees or equipment breaking down or the health department with customers, you just have to be cheerful all the time, except they have no idea, the chaos going on behind the scenes. So I really appreciated her sharing a bit of that transparency as I was being like, this is so great. This is so amazing. Tell me like your secrets, and she was kind of like, okay, well. also it's been challenging, so I always appreciate a little dose of transparency and authenticity in that way. Yeah. And then I asked her about the challenges of starting a business and trying to stay afloat financially. So she said, someone once said to her, the minute you hit more than 10 employees, your hands will be full. Employees can always be challenging. She talked about having to fire people, finding out people undermine you behind your back. Even though you try to keep your ear close to the ground, it only takes one. You can have people who are working really hard. They've also had two other restaurants. One was in Mission Hills for a time. They had an employee who sued them at one point, but then it was dropped because there was nothing there. Still, that sounds incredibly stressful. She had this other quote, who can afford an HR manager when you're selling sandwiches. And then she talked about equipment, the cost of repairing equipment, how bakery equipment is shockingly expensive. And then recently this harder problem is, if she could pay people $25 an hour, she would, with the increase in minimum wage. It's tricky how people who have been working there for a couple months, IE myself, will be earning the same as employees who might have been working there for decades. And they just get these incremental adjustments over that long period of time. But that's just how it is. And I can see how that would be really hard as the boss to see that not be able to Yeah. Necessarily reward people based on tenure. I asked her how she mainly hired people. She said mostly by people who walk in. It's amazing how people walk in when you need them. And I asked her like how she kind of consents like whether or not someone will be a good fit. And she said it's mainly just trying to judge. Upfront whether they'll be a good worker. And another thing she spoke about when working with employees is dealing with joy and sorrow simultaneously.. This dichotomy of dealing with joy and sorrow simultaneously. So for example, someone just got a huge win and someone else, someone close to you or a relative of someone you're close to has died. So she talks about this movie called American Symphony, where apparently like one character wins a Grammy. And another character has cancer. So she's talking about this feeling in terms of being so connected to all of her employees or even members of the community that are customers of Girard Gourmet and how there can be really good moments for some people and then really sad moments at the same time. And it's like dealing with that. Difference in emotion. That range in emotion. I thought that was super interesting. About something that you may encounter if you're running a business that is heavily involved with people on a day-to-day basis. So yeah, I thought that was fascinating. She said I have some appreciation, but I don't get the full extent of what we mean to the community, the people who walk in and tell us what we mean to them in terms of a place to come, as well as the quality of the food and how important we are in their lives and have been for years. It's hard for her to get that sometimes when she's dealing with the daily grind and she has so many things to deal with. She said it's like getting on a treadmill and she's not ha, she's not sure how to get off. But yeah, and it is really rare for her or husband to take time off. Yeah, I also asked her about costs and she said that. It's been very challenging managing the finances. You think you're fine and then some unexpected large expense will arise and that can be very stressful. So it sounded like something like that has happened multiple times over the years. They've been going for almost four decades, so I can imagine a lot can happen in that time span. And I asked her about like some of the good parts about what she's done and what has been satisfying. And she said that it's been nothing but on the job training and there are certain things that she's learned how to do and how to do well. So she spoke about planning parties with people, planning menus, making like food selections. On the day I interviewed her, she shared this anecdote of. Someone sending an order form for a cocktail party they're having the following week. And she pointed out to them that she thought they were ordering like too much for that amount of people. And her customer was thrilled that she pointed out. That's and she said she feels like she's very good at that, whether it's for baby showers, bridal showers, just like planning and helping with the menu. I think, I also mentioned to her during that conversation that like that's a really positive sign that she's the kind of business owner that would save their client money, save their customer money if she didn't think yeah, just someone who would be honest with you if they thought you were like overspending. So yeah, I just thought that was really good.'cause like obviously she didn't have to do that. However, I have heard her say many times that one of the best forms of marketing is word of mouth, like positive reviews. And so I think that's another reason why she was so good with the people in there. Obviously I think it was quite genuine, but also she seemed to be aware. That forming these really positive relationships with people would pay dividends. Yeah, like I'm sure that has been like a learning over the time that she spent doing these things and helping these people. But yeah, she also spoke about how Gerard Gourmet has become a real superhero at celebrations of life, so memorials. Always finding ways to stay within budget and that makes people really pleased. And she said they, they've also learned through feedback over the years, weddings they stay away from because they take an awful lot. Didn't get into what that meant, but I can imagine. I asked a little bit about the kitchen. Because the food is really good homemade food. I think it's rare that you have food like that. But anyway, and I think a lot of people really like the food. I've heard that from customers while working there. But, yeah, she said we have a kitchen that is committed to producing what they need to produce. I've been blessed with a couple of employees, but one in particular who has no, no formal education that I know of, and takes huge pride in doing things well, doing things efficiently, doing things beautifully. And yeah, I know this employee, she basically runs the kitchen, and I think at one point Diana said she could handle everything at drag. Roommate with her eyes closed. Like she just knows everything very well. And , it was really cool to hear her speak so highly of her and give her like the credit that is due for what she does.'cause it sounds like it's really incredible. And then she also spoke about how like she had never worked with Mexicans previously, and a lot of the employees at Gerard Gourmet are Mexican and she spoke about how much she loves being a part, feeling like a part of their family having that sense of family. And that is definitely a thing at Gerard Gourmet. Like it was very sweet to. Come into a place where a lot of the people like, know each other really well, are like genuinely friends and are very welcoming to new people coming in. So that was lovely. She said in the number of em of employees or she's had employees whose kids have graduated from universities. I think she's a, I think she has employed employees and then also their children at some point, like their kids. But she's also, I think she was also saying that she's had employees whose kids graduated from universities while they were working there which is like a happy coincidence. And then back to Liz, who is the. Employee. She was speaking about who who does quite a bit in the kitchen. She's worked there at least 25 years. So long time. And yeah, I asked her what sort of values are standout in employees? She said, people who are looking out for the business. At one point she also told this anecdote to me about. How she had these two like brothers who worked there and like they were working up in the front, like doing customer service. But there was one at one point, I don't know, like people in the back and the kitchen needed help and without asking, they just intuitively went back there and helped. Prep some food and she called that out as like really useful and it seemed like it's very rare. So I took that like a general lesson from this as don't need to, I think this can apply in so many different roles. Like I, I've heard a similar thing in like tech, but it's like don't wait to be told explicitly what needs to be done. If you can intuitively. See, like where there needs to be help and you can just absolutely go do it without having your higher up. Tell you to go do it. If you anticipate the needs or anticipate ways that can make like your boss's job easier or like that can positively impact the business's bottom line or just make the ship run smoother, whatever. Yeah, I saw like similarities between like this in a kitchen, in a food service environment and like this in jobs I've worked as well, as an engineer. So I thought that was super interesting. And it takes a certain level of like high agency because I certainly didn't think about that when I was working like. Behind the counter at Gerard Gourmet, like I did not really think about what more could be done outside of the scope of like my domain, which was like behind the counter. So I thought it was interesting. Anyway she spoke, she speaks very highly of her husband Francois, and his creativity and how much she learned from him. How he has brilliant artistry like in cake baking and designs and cookies. And yeah, I will just shortly after this, I will then get into details from my chat with him.'cause he has an interesting background as well. And he was the one who actually started Jar Gourmet. All those years ago. But one last thing from this chat with Diana, which is just she speaks a lot about like small world things or like encounters where or I shouldn't say she speaks a lot about it, but she did mention this where she always asks people where they're from when she's making their sandwich, and she does still help. As well. Like she does a mixture of running things for the business and then when we're short on helping people or there's a line, she will always come and help like the next customer in line. So she says she'll always ask people where they're from. In La Jolla is also like a touristy part of San Diego. So there are a lot of visitors who come in, I would say, looking for food. But yeah, she just. She gave like an anecdote of how recently she was speaking to someone and realized that he had ties to someone who knew her mother, like back in. Virginia or something. But either way, I feel like either I've seen this or I've heard of these instances happening a lot where like people are just striking up conversation across like the counter and especially Diana because she's been there for so long and some of the more like senior employees they just have like history with these customers or. They'll be chatting. So they'll find something in commons. They know someone who knows someone. And it's just really cute. It's really cute to see. So I wanted to share that as well. And now I'm going to move on to my conversation with Francois. Diana mentioned this, but. One of the big things Jar Gourmet has is these beautifully iced cookies. Like the classics are like seals and like a surfboard with the ocean colors saying like La Jolla or some other area in San Diego. So those like seals, like La Jolla is known for like seals. But he'll also make ones for like particular holidays. Like he'll make like hearts for Valentine's Day and Christmas trees for Christmas, Santa Claes, things like that. And yeah, they're very popular. Part, and they're actually very good. Like they are not just for show, but basically he went to Petitionary school in Belgium. So I believe that is where the artistry began. But regardless. I am gonna go into what I with a friend to San Antonio. San Antonio, Texas, I believe in his twenties. He worked at the World Fair in 1968. Then he came back to Houston for a guy that was in San Antonio to work with him, I presume.. Then he opened a place in Houston called St. Michelle, like in Paris. It had French food sandwiches. It was there 16 years. He got married, then divorced. And he put his son in Diana's school, and I think at one point he moved to Santa Rosa, but on the way back, or he like was going to Santa Rosa, but on the way back the plane was overbooked in San Diego, so he got off and visited in La Jolla and he walked into this. Establishment and there was nothing there. It said it was for sale. He gave this analogy of finding a Cadillac that has no battery. So basically he closed the restaurant in Houston, closed the bakery that he had there too, or he sold that. And yeah he came here and he bought this place. I think he also sold his house back in Texas and that money helped him buy this place. I asked him what he learned from the first restaurant that helped him with Jar Gourmet. He said he learned that whole wheat bread is more wholesome food. So when he opened this place, he made lots of sandwiches on the We Bread. And then I asked him a bit about the beginning and what they were making and he said they were mostly making sandwiches, lots of croissants, lots of coffee. However morning breakfast business went down when all the other cafes came. He mentioned chains like Starbucks, for example. Then he started making pies. He spoke a little bit about how like small, savory and sweet pies were like a really good game changer for the business'cause they're ready to eat, ready to go. I asked him how it's changed over the years. He mentioned that Diana is very good with people and catering has picked up a lot. They started like working with a couple organizations around La Jolla that helped as well.'cause they're like regular customers. And I asked him why he decided to open the farm.'cause at one point they had a farm where they would make ingredients use those ingredients in their establishments. And he said he liked the place and it had greats and made great ingredient. Like they had great ingredients from there that they used for pies that they made, but it was hard managing them both. You had to drive like over an hour to get there and to get back. He talked about how they'd be chasing gophers a lot because that they would eat everything. And yeah, I asked him how long it was open. It was open about 15 years and they just couldn't do it at some point anymore. But, then they also had this restaurant in Mission Hills, which is another neighborhood in San Diego, and that was more of a restaurant. But that they also ended up closing that after a while. He said that good business is always challenging because it's a lot harder than people think. The biggest challenges are finding people that know how to cook. And I asked him more about what else he's learned and he said he learned to be open. Right now he's making sweet and savory pies. And he's been doing that for five years. Before that, they didn't make that, but he wanted to have food that was ready, like I mentioned, he started making all these different pies. He also spoke about how you can't have a situation where people are coming in and waiting. It has to flow because if they have to wait too long, it doesn't work. And it's very interesting hearing that from him because the structure, the layout of Jar Rome is like very narrow where you have the workers behind the counter and then people lining up like around the pastry case outside the pastry window. And then like up the counter, and sometimes the line like gets really long. But yeah, he said before this, we didn't have salads or pies ready. People would wait too long. And I asked him about the cookies. He said they, they didn't start doing that until after Diana. He had never done those before. But people really liked it and he made his own cutters. He made his own cutters, so like the actual shape of the cookie. We talked about how he still comes in every day. In the beginning when he opened, he slept. In the restaurant on the walk-in cooler to save money and to be there. And he spoke a little bit about how like in the early days he worked with someone they would start working at 4:00 AM to make muffins and then they would get cleaned up. And they would wait on customers. Sometimes he would take a nap in the afternoon, and then for the rest of the day, they were open until eight or nine at night. Then eventually Diana came and joined and she went up front and he made a commitment to have at least five or six hours of sleep every day. He said, in Belgium, I didn't even know where San Diego was. I asked him if he always knew he wanted to open a restaurant, own a restaurant. He said, I've always been into in a kitchen helping. He was 15 when he went to Patisserie school. His parents were farmers and they didn't know what to do with him. He spoke about how he worked in the guy's kitchen at the fairgrounds. He mentioned he had worked at the World Fair and that he enjoyed it. It was easy. It was long days, but that's it., and he was also younger when he was doing this. He said he was 26, 28. I asked him what he enjoyed the most about what he does now. He says. He can do, he can make anything that they make. Although it has been a long time of him doing this and he likes the employees and several of them have been there for a long time. And then I asked him if he started over what he would do differently, and he said he would buy rather than rent. The building was, or the building or the, unit was built by butchers from Belgium. They thought it was too small and they put something in to make pate's. They sold this place to a lady who sold it to him when she came, when he came back. To buy it. She sold the place and the stuff inside and he bought it with money he had saved, so he didn't go back to Houston. He had gotten 30 K from a house in Houston, and then he had to cover rent the next month, which was a lot. He talked about, oh, this is a really good anecdote. He talked about how in the beginning. It would take in like a hundred dollars a day, like a hundred dollars in like gross revenue, I'm assuming. And it's, it seemed like that would increase a dollar a day when he started. So after two to three months he had more like 200, $300 a day. But it kept increasing like that. And I asked him, how did you keep it going up every day? And he said, we were open every day. We were always open. Even holidays, we have a bathroom. People want coffee in the morning. And then when the coffee businesses came to compete, he said, instead of coffees, we have pies and we still have sandwiches and soups and cakes. He said the rent was 5K starting. I wonder what it is now. I'm sure it's much more. And then I asked him about some favorite place stories about this place. He. Both him and Diana have some stories about famous people that would eat there or like they saw there. So he said Kirk Douglas the actor walked in one day. He also had a lady asked for a cake with Obama in the White House. This was 2006. And she threw a party. I believe it was like a fundraising party, and Diana and Francois got to attend and they got to meet Obama, which is amazing. And then they work a lot with this organization called the Atheneum, which is in La Jolla. And for years at Christmas, he would make this whole display. Of the village, like the La Jolla village with people in Santa, and he would make that with cookies, so very beautiful. And then he's also made a lot of cakes for the wife of the founder of Qualcomm. So Qualcomm, I believe, was founded in San Diego. He also said that the, I'm pretty sure like the founders of Costco used to have breakfast there every morning. I believe he's no longer alive, but yeah, they would eat there. And he had some fond memories about how people would sit outside every morning and they would draw on the napkins and the paper. Oh, and then Diana had a good story about how there was one year where Hillary Clinton was signing her book at Warwick, which is like this really well known, this independent bookstore basically across the street. And like people were lining up to get like coffee or whatever.'cause a lot of people were like in the area, in the village. And then at one point, like Diana got a break and got to go over and get her book signed. Very cool. Very cool. But yeah, I asked him about . What did he want to do in years to come? He said he would like to travel.. He'd someone else to manage it, but they haven't gotten anyone to do that yet. Two people in the kitchen. There are two people in the kitchen who know everything and some know a lot, and in, in the front people know right away how to deal with customers. So that is everything from my conversations with Diana and Francois. And yeah, it was just really intriguing having these conversations and it was interesting to be able to ask both of them questions. I think Diana is the one who I got to observe really closely while I was working there 'cause she was. It was more so working with her, so I had a lot more to ask from her and learn there., I'm just, I've been putting off making this episode because it's I just like wanna do it justice. So it's a bit of perfectionism, but yeah, at the end of the day, like I'm excited to share this. Because it's a little bit different than my traditional interviewing structure, and it's fun to try new things. So hopefully you enjoyed, and if you're in La Jolla, you should check out Gerard Gourmet, especially if you like beautifully iced cookies.