#64. Studio Casually: Permission to Quit

Kate is the owner of Studio Casually, operating multiple photo and event studio spaces in San Diego. Now 29, she started the business over three years ago after building an unconventional career path - graduating high school at 17 with an associate's degree, working various jobs while teaching herself marketing and photography, and eventually transitioning to full-time freelance work before opening her studios. 

In this conversation, Kate shares guidance on entrepreneurship, including how to take calculated risks, the importance of the people you surround yourself with, and why she avoids studying competitors to maintain her creative vision. She shares insight into the realities of self-funding a business, including the personal sacrifices and why she intentionally built her business to operate independently of her personal brand. Kate also discusses knowing when to quit versus when to push through, moving past the fear of judgement, and finding fulfillment in being part of her clients' stories and business beginnings. 

https://www.studiocasually.com/contact

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Kate and Her Journey
• 1:17 Early Career and Education
• 2:00 Transition to Freelancing and Photography
• 3:36 Building the Studio Business
• 5:20 Challenges and Sacrifices
• 7:45 Insights on Entrepreneurship
• 11:58 Managing the Studio Spaces
• 15:37 Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs
• 45:35 Starting a Business with a Team
• 46:17 Detaching from the Brand
• 51:45 Challenges of Scaling a Business
• 55:49 Unexpected Obstacles and Solutions
• 1:02:31 Embracing Change and Quitting
• 1:14:09 Finding Fulfillment in Work

Transcript

0:02

Kate is the owner of Studio casually operating multiple photo and event studio spaces in San Diego now 29. She started the business over three years ago after building an unconventional career path, graduating high school at 17 with an associate's degree, working various jobs while teaching herself marketing and photography, and eventually transitioning to full-time freelance work before opening her studio. In this conversation, Kate share's guidance on entrepreneurship, including how to take calculated risks, the importance of the people you surround yourself with, and why she avoids studying competitors. To maintain her creative vision, she shares insight into the realities of self-funding a business, including the personal sacrifices and why she intentionally built her business to operate independently of her personal brand. Kate also discusses knowing when to quit versus when to push through. Of judgment and finding fulfillment and being part of her client stories and business beginnings. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Welcome to Passion Project Bending. Hello. Hello. Thanks for having me. Yes. Thank you for letting me interview you. So to start, I would love to ask you about what you were doing before you were doing what you do now. And I wrote down, what were you doing before managing this space? Mm-hmm. But I realize that I might not understand all that you do now, so Yeah. I feel like I don't Okay. Sometimes. So it's a lot. I think I'm, I'm spread across Whenever someone asks like what I do now, I always say I am like I'm a photographer first and then I own. Studio spaces. I own a couple photo and event spaces is usually like my quick short spiel. So before I got into running studio, casually, I have two locations now. I opened them three years ago, but before that I was freelancing, as a photographer, which is still what I do. So that's like still a bulk of what I do. I like to say that I'm a photographer first because I think it's not really realistic at this point when I say that, but it, in my heart it is. So I think I'm like, I think photography is mainly what I do, and what I like to prioritize. But I think the studios obviously take up so much more of my time realistically and logistically in managing them and running them. Obviously I have a team that helps. But the kind of beginning stages, they just take up way more. In a perfect world, I would kind of be doing 50 50 where half my time is split managing the studios and the other half is split with like my photography work. But yeah, that's what I do now. How far back do you wanna go? Pre, pre studio? Um, okay. Maybe like, like before I worked for myself. Yeah, definitely. Okay. Before you worked for yourself, if you went to school mm-hmm. What did you study? And then maybe even like, what do you think you kind of, your background from like even growing up mm-hmm. Kind of, uh, signal to like what you do now? Totally. Or ties into like what brought you here. Yeah. I think when I look back, and I say this all the time, when I look back at like, looking at what I do now in every facet, because I think there's a lot of little titles that I hold nowadays. I feel like looking back I'm like, oh, every, I'm so doing what I meant. To be doing. Because I feel like all of my jobs and every little piece of what I used to do, like points to what I'm doing now, I'm like, oh, it just makes so much sense. It's kind of like kismet in a way, that I will put together sometimes. And whenever I'm like, Ugh, I feel like, is this what I should be doing? I feel like I'm, I've hit a lot of roadblocks this year. It's been a very hard year for me, for my business across the board. And I think every time I'm like, oh, is this like. What I wanna do with my life. I'm questioning it. I'm like, no, everything makes sense. Like when I look back at it, everything points to what I'm doing, which I think is kind of, which is very helpful to me when I look at it. Mm-hmm. Um, but I didn't go to college. I technically, I did at two years, I guess technically, but I was in high school, so I was dual enrolled my junior, senior year I was at the community college, so I graduated high school with my associates. But I always say I didn't go to college'cause it didn't do anything for me. I don't think that advanced me in any way, shape or form in, in anything that I did. But I technically have my associates. I went to the community college my junior, senior year of high school. So I wasn't at my high school. But I think I, because I did that, I graduated, I was 17 because I'm a November baby, so I kind of started early and my, my mom always was like, oh, you'll get held back at some point. And then I just didn't. And so I graduated at 17 and I had my associates. And so then the next step would be to go to like a four year to finish my bachelor's. But I think at 17 I was like, I have no idea what I'm supposed to do. And now the two years of college where you usually kind of like, figure that out, were already done. So I was like, well, getting a loan, like taking a loan out for school to go to a four year to finish to get my bachelor's in, like I have no idea what I would wanna pursue. Just didn't make sense. At the time, and I think there was a lot of pressure to go from everybody. I think that was kind of the beginning where I think there was a, a good phase of people starting to not go to college. But at the time, I feel like none of my pe, all of my peers went to school. There was nobody in my class who didn't go to college, I think besides me and maybe one other person. And so I think I was just like, well, I'm kind of technically, I guess already ahead of the game, so I'll just work. I was working ahead like two to part-time jobs. I was like, I wanna move outta my parents. And so I did that. And so I was just kind of working random jobs along the way, and then I ended up kind of deciding. At some point I was like, maybe I wanna pursue marketing, and like communications was where my brain was at. And so I ended up getting a job at a coffee shop that was like a barista slash marketing intern, which I brought in interns this year and was very much like how I viewed the interns that I brought on this year at the studio. In the way that the gal that ran the business was very, she was like, whatever you wanna put on your resume in terms of marketing, she owned like a coffee shop, so she's like, I do everything myself, obviously. And now I'm like, yeah, I get it. And so she was like, well, whatever you want to put on your resume, like how can I teach you that? How can you do that? Let's like work on that. And so this is kind of the time when businesses were just starting to be on social media. And so that transition was happening and so I was helping with social media for her business, which was just more, it was a little bit more new to like businesses being active on Instagram and stuff like that. Not just people posting whatever. People are monetizing Instagram a little bit more at that time. And so I started doing that and then ended up transitioning into another job after that. But I looked so. When I look back, I'm like, that one is so like fond and special to me.'cause I think it really helped me from a resume perspective, because I didn't have a school or like a, degree to lean on to be like, oh, I know marketing'cause I went to school for it or whatever. And so I think I got some there and then kind of did similar in my next job where they, their social media was really bad and I was like, can I help do this? I just worked in the store. I was like a bridal stylist and I was like, can I help? Can I like take the, the pictures look bad, like can I take the pictures? And so I'd always kind of done photo stuff on the side. So then I started doing like weekly photo shoots for the brand or the business. And so we would do that and then post them on Instagram. And so I kind of like built that on my resume a little bit. So I was kind of like getting creative in the technically non-marketing related jobs. They were just like. Retail or a barista or whatever. I kind of was like, well, how else can I, how else am I gonna build my resume? I don't know. And so I just would be like, Hey, I can do this. Will you let me do it? And they're like, okay. So that was kind of how that transitioned. And then after that, I ended up getting a job in tech, which was a big game changer for me too. So I was working at Squarespace, and I got a job there. And then that's really when I, I stayed there for a couple years and moved to San Diego from there looking to get a job in marketing. So I landed an agency job here before I moved. So that was six and a half years ago, so it was 2019. So like six months before COVID hit, I moved, started a marketing job, and then very quickly was like, I don't like an agency environment. This is not for me. And so I started freelancing on the side and that is really where everything kind of shifted for me. And so took on a freelancing job. On the side that I got that was, I think I was her creative director technically. And then that turned into a full-time opportunity. So she was like, Hey, do you wanna just be like, technically I was still freelance, but I was working like almost 40 hours for her and the like pricing and the, my like salary was like doubled. I was like, this is just a no-brainer. Why would I say this agency job that I don't like? And so jumped basically full-time freelance from there and then built on more clients from there. But originally when I started freelancing, I was in the marketing space. And like social media space, that's mainly what I was doing.'cause that's what I was doing my job prior. To going freelance. And then I ended up transitioning back into visuals. I had always done photo stuff kind of on the side or whatever, and I ran across a job and like a job posting on Upwork. I used to get a ton of work on Upwork. I don't as much anymore. But back in 2020, Upwork was it for me. I got so much work from there. And so I ended up running across this job that was like, for a skincare company. They were looking for a product photographer. And I was like, and the, the budget was 10 k. I was like, oh, that's crazy. In my head I was like, I, I could probably do that. I could figure that out. Sure. And so I sent a proposal, ended up getting the job, and then it ended up like doubling. It was like a massive job that I'm like, I'm looking back, I shot on my like$500 camera. And like I look back, I'm like, that was crazy. And. I, from that moment I got that job and I was like, oh my God, why would I ever do social media anymore? This is so stupid. I ha I was like, I was over the marketing side of things. I was like, I just wanna do visuals. I had no idea in my head. I think I had like a limiting belief that I was like, oh, only the best of the best people are like able to shoot for like businesses, brands, whatever.'cause that's mainly the photography that I do. I don't really do portraits. I do every now and then, but mainly the bulk of my business is shooting for brands and. I got that gig and I was like, wait a second. This fully just like blew my mind. I had no idea that that was even an option for me. And I was like, that's so creative. That's so fun. It's different every time. Because I didn't like shooting weddings. I knew I didn't wanna do that, which is why I never pursued photography full-time.'cause I just didn't think that it was an option outside of like outside shooting weddings or like a ton of family photos. And I'm just like, it's not for me. It's not my thing. I'll do it, but I don't like doing it. Like full time when I get to do it now, it's really fun and special.'cause it's like a treat.'cause I don't do it that often. But yeah. And so I kind of saw that transition. I was like, this just makes so much more sense. Why? How, how could I have not thought of this sooner? It was like very much like mind blowing. And then I was like, I'm fully doing this. And I kind of like phased out all my social media clients and like fully dove into just doing photo work. And then I like truly haven't gone back since. So that was like the bulk of my business. I was doing that full-time for a couple years before the studio was kind of like a thought, just like freelancing. And then I was working out of my apartment and I lived in a loft downtown. And so I had a studio like set up in my place and then I was having like models over and would like shoot and do all of that. And then I very, after probably like a year or so of doing that, I was like, I think I need separation of church and state. Like this is too much in my house. I have a dog. I had a boyfriend at the time. I just was like, I need some separation. And so I ended up, I was like, well, what if I got a studio space and then I was like, I could rent it out. That feels like a, a natural progression of like another way to make income. I think I'm always kind of thinking of like, how else can you diversify the way your money comes in? And I think I think about that a lot. In terms of when people talk about like job security and like entrepreneurship or freelancing being like turbulent and not very secure. I think a lot of people like, like to stick to a traditional nine to five because it holds, quote unquote that level of security. But I think the more that you diversify where your money comes from and the clients that you have, it feels it can feel more secure than a nine to five.'cause you can get laid off from a nine to five at any time. And you can get laid off from a freelancing gig at any time. And I've learned that the hard way as well. Mm-hmm. But when you have multiple clients, the hit doesn't hurt as much. Versus like, if you get laid off from your nine to five, obviously you're like, that was my only job for most people. Right. And so, yeah. So I think in my head I was like, okay, how else can I diversify? Like where I'm getting money, how else can I grow what I'm doing, build what I'm doing? And so a studio kind of just felt like the next step. I love running a business. I like the like. Backend side of it. I think I'm very much in doing photo stuff. It's very creative job. And I think. I like getting to have the creative outlet side and I also, I think the studio brings a lot of the business operations and like entrepreneurship side that I get from running a photography business obviously, but I think more so in running these spaces physically. Yeah, and so I basically looked at opening one, opened one, and then it very quickly turned into, I was like, this is not a side hustle by any means at all. This is very much like a full hustle. And very quickly took up a lot of my time and still does. But I think that was kind of the progression there. And then it grew very quickly opened up, I opened up three in nine months, which was, I don't recommend to anybody to ever do that. I am like, why did I do that to myself? And so then I went back down to two, which one was always meant to be temporary. So that was great. And so now I'm just a two, which is a lot more sustainable kind of. But yeah, that's my like, not so short version of like there to now and all kind of the little parts along the way, but yeah. Yeah. That's great. I mean, yeah. I don't know how that can be shortened'cause like obviously the little pieces all Yeah. Matter, you know? Yeah. Um, but yeah. Okay. Thank you for giving like an in-depth background. That's definitely good to know going into questions mm-hmm. To ask. And thank you also for sharing the bit about. Like how having multiple clients can feel more secure than a nine to five. Mm-hmm. Because I would definitely agree. I think having the ability to make money out of a nine to five and knowing how is definitely not, super intuitive if you've never done it before. Mm-hmm. And it's really valuable to have that skill. Mm-hmm. So yeah, I can imagine that. That's lovely. So could you talk a little bit about the process of opening up this space or any studio space and like what went into that and like if there was any risk involved and Yeah, just what it's like, like managing a space and how you learned to do that. Yeah. I mean, I think I'm very big on like calculated risks and so I think like I'm somebody who would never quit my job without having a job lined up already. That is like the way that I function. Mm-hmm. And so I think when I was looking into it, kind of doing the math of, you know, okay, how much is it gonna cost? How much am I gonna rent it out for? How much money do I need to spend to get it going? Realistically, how often does it need to be rented? For just the lease to be covered was kind of what I was thinking.'cause I think originally in my head I was like, yeah, just be kind of nice. Like if I just paid the, it just covered the rent, then I get to use a studio for free. That was really the original thought in my head. And then as I was building it, I was really building it outside of just myself. I knew how I needed a studio, and the things that I would want and use. But then I was like, well, if I'm gonna put in all this money and time and energy, why not like fully send it and make it into like a proper business. And so that was really the, the way, once I got the space and saw it, I was like, yeah, this is a lot. Beyond just me. If I just needed a, a studio space for myself, I could have gotten something a lot smaller and done things a lot differently. Right. But I think in my head I was like, yeah, I think this could be something a lot bigger than just, something for me to use for free. That's kind of like silly. And so once I was looking at it through that lens and I was really considering and, touring spaces and seeing what was available, I think that that played a big part. And then,, I didn't have any investors. I didn't have any financial help. I didn't take out a loan besides, I put stuff on my credit card and like my savings account, like that was really it. So it was all like fully fund, like self-funded, which I am very glad that I did. In hindsight, I think, I mean it's a hit and a miss. I think it's one of those where there's a lot of personal sacrifice when you're self-funding. And so I'm like, yeah, I have I been on like a nice vacation in the last three years? No. And that's just how it is. Have I had a lot of time off in the last three years? No. And so like, I think that's, it's all sacrifice and so it's, to me, I opted to start and invest in the way that I did very strategically to ideally have a better result later on. So I'm like, yeah, when I hit that four or five year, I make it to year four or five, you know? A lot of businesses don't, and so I'm just past three years. And so I think to me, when I was looking at it, everything I was doing was like long-term gain. I'm like, I'm willing to sacrifice like my own comforts, wants, whatever, to build this thing that I know that it can be. And so that I think has been like the hardest part. And now especially, I feel it probably more so the last like year or like six months is I'm like, yeah, the like personal sacrifice is starting to get a little tiring and I'm kind of getting tired. And so I think knowing that, I'm like, yeah, and it's, I've been able to grow and expand and have more than one location and invest in a photo booth or whatever, because I took all of those like personal sacrifices. And so what is nice about. Not having investors and self-funding is, you don't have anybody else telling you what to do. Mm-hmm. Or how to spend your money or whatever. And so I don't really have any outside noise. I'm very much making the decisions that I think are best, which could be good for some, could be bad for some. I think some work better having more of a sounding board and some don't. I think I'm very much, I'm like, I have a vision. I know what I'm like, what I wanna do. I'm gonna like make it happen. And so I think getting to make those decisions myself has been nice. But obviously I've had to like, had a lot of sacrifices along the way to. Be able to do that. But yeah, I think like when I was looking at spaces initially, I kind of had a list of, I knew what my non-negotiables were and my first space, which I don't have anymore, we relocated. But my first one that I opened, I spent way too much money on the build. And I did it all myself, which doesn't make sense. I spent that much money on the build, but like I had a lot of renovations that I needed to do. I ripped out an office, which I did not do myself. I did hire, that's the one thing I've ever hired contractors to do, was rip out an office. But everything else I did myself, but like the whole place was teal and the office had to go and I like redid the entire kitchen. And so I think there was a lot. Involved in all of those processes and I'm like, yeah, what I, if I went back now knowing what I know now, I would do things a lot differently. Mm-hmm. And I did do differently when I got this space I didn't need to do as much. And so I think it's kind of a matter of you factor in, how much am I gonna pay on this lease every month? Versus, you know, in what I know it can be. Versus if you get something a little bit more built out, your lease is gonna be higher. So. Kind of factored all of that in. But yeah, I think I went into viewing the spaces with my own, I knew some non-negotiables in my head of what I needed. And I remember when I showed my, like people in my life, I was like, this is a space I'm looking at. They're like, what is that? Because it, you really like couldn't see it. I'm like, in my head I could see it. I was like, yeah, we're gonna rip this office out and then the light's gonna be way brighter'cause it, that's not gonna be in the way. And then once you get rid of the blue, it's also gonna be brighter. They're like, that place is dark and ugly and they just like didn't see it. And then once it was done, they're like, I get it now. And so I think like, which I'm very big on being mindful of like who you take advice from and who you, I don't think, I'm definitely not a move in silence kind of person. I think it's dangerous to move too quietly. I think you, it's hard'cause you don't have support and you don't have, I don't know, like, I think it's, it's really easy to push things off and like actually never accomplish what you wanna accomplish when you're like being quiet about it. And I think it's like more fun and interesting to be like loud about the things that you like do wrong. But yeah, I remember like showing people and they're like, what is this? And I was like, oh, I'm so glad that I'm very like, steadfast in my feelings because I think otherwise I've been like, maybe I shouldn't, like, maybe that isn't the right place. And it ended up working out great. But yeah, I think being careful of mm-hmm. Who you choose to listen to is really important. Because I think a lot of people in my life didn't, didn't understand what I was trying to do. I know, like my family was like, okay, a like a studio, you, you rent it. I don't understand. And so it took them a while to like understand the business model in general. But yeah, I think it was just a lot of, like, I knew that I had a need, I did a lot of market research beforehand. I think it's really easy to have an idea and then wanna execute. And I'm very like, I'm very analytical and so I was like, I'm gonna make sure that the need is here. You know, I hit the market at a really good time. It was really unsaturated in San Diego when I opened, so I had a leg up in that, in that capacity. But yeah, I think a lot of thoughts. I think it's so, it's so funny, I look back, a lot of people are like, oh yeah, you like opened a studio, you know, whatever. And I'm like, yeah. I think there were so many little things that like consumed me for a really, it still does consumed me for a really long time. But yeah. Lots of little choices all the time. Yeah, pretty much. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it takes me a while to process, the responses to the question. So I like wanna touch on a couple things that you said that I think are really valuable. Like, yeah, going back to like when you have a vision and other people don't see it and you have the capacity to listen to your own voice. Mm-hmm. That is very valuable and it makes me think back of when you were going to not go to school while all your peers were going. Mm-hmm. And like how I think just going outside of the norm can be really tricky, especially when you don't. Have a vision, you don't have a path, and it sounds like you very much did not, and you made yours up as you went. Mm-hmm. Which I think like is hard. Like that's hard. Mm-hmm. Like you don't have a vision. But at the same time, why I think it's so valuable is that you have the space to create your own because you weren't following a path that you thought that you needed to do. Mm-hmm. So like, yeah. Where you ended up is. A result of that, you slowly followed your own little road to what ended up happening. Mm-hmm. And then also the piece on not immediately getting a full-time job and tr like the way you self-funded and like you had savings from your history of freelancing and being self-employed. Mm-hmm. Not everyone does that. And something that I realized, when I was laid off, I had become accustomed to a life where I could take nice vacations and had that stable income from the very beginning. Mm-hmm. And so instead of building it up, and watching your costs, like as a person from the very beginning mm-hmm. It was very hard to relearn that and understand that if I wanted to generate my own income from scratch, I would have to make sacrifices. Mm-hmm. Like you said that you did, for the long-term vision of like eventually being able to be your own owner mm-hmm. And run your own business and make it past year three or four. It's that is hard to wrap my head around as mm-hmm. Uh, someone who's always been like a corporate employee. Yeah. And something that I only learned that like it's a marathon, not a sprint from removing the option of a corporate role. Yeah. So it's like very interesting hearing your story now, with all that you've done, because. Yeah, sometimes the corporate role can just take up like the space in your mind. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it's not, it's not as secure as we think, but mm-hmm. Yeah, those are just like some thoughts I had in response, but I guess one thing I'd love to ask you is, advice on how to like, strengthen that voice or that mm-hmm. Belief in your vision because I think that thing you mentioned where you had the vision for the space mm-hmm. And people in your life were like, not so sure, but now here we are. Mm-hmm. Like, I don't know, what would you say to someone who like has a vision but has a hard time pushing past the resistance of the people in their life? And I agree that building in silence can be. Tricky. Mm-hmm. And it is good to like have accountability by stepping up and saying mm-hmm. What you're gonna do. So what, what would be your advice for someone in that position? Yeah. I think honestly I'm like, I'm so against building in silence. I think it's, it's actually like crazy. I'm like, who told us that that's a healthy thing to do? I really can't wrap my mind around it, but I think I, it's so funny, you know, the on TikTok when they're like, she knew who she was from a very early age. Like I, you could ask my parents, like my first word was no. Like I have very much, I. Been like, if I wanna do it, I'm gonna do it. You know? But I think what's what, and what I always say too is if you are someone who is like one, like scared of taking risks or things like that, like I think a lot of people are just scared to start. I think you need to get around people that are doing. Cool shit respectfully. And I think like surrounding yourself with people who are just like doing, doing the thing, I think it's really easy and it's gonna feel really hard and really isolating if the only people that you're around are very comfortable and very, like, if you are the only entrepreneur, quote unquote in your friend group and everyone else has a nine to five, you're going to feel isolated. You're gonna feel crazy as well. And your friends are probably gonna look at you crazy because that's just like what they know. And it's not even like shady. It really is like people just don't know what they don't know. And so I think if you're trying to build something or, you know, start a business or be an entrepreneur or whatever that looks like. I think, and you're not surrounded by other people like that. I think you need to be like you, you need to put yourself in positions around people who are doing things. Maybe not what you wanna do. And I'm big on not following. I always say, I'm like, don't follow your like, role model or don't follow your idols, on social media.'cause I think it like stifles your own creativity. Interesting. And I have like big rules for myself on social media when it comes to that, which I can touch on later. But I think it's really important to surround yourself with people who inspire you. And I don't think it means if you wanna start a business, you should get rid of all your friends that have a nine to five. Not at all actually. I think like everybody has a really unique perspective that is helpful. And I think being around my friends with more typical jobs I think is still beneficial for me and them. And I think that's still like amazing friendship to have. But I do think it's really important to have your circle emulate who you wanna become as well. I think it's very much like you are who you surround yourself with and I believe that wholeheartedly. And so I think if you. Taking the risks are gonna feel scary if you're not around people who ever take risks. And so I think making your circle and widening your net in that way is really important. And I think that's when, if you are looking at your friend group and feeling that way, I think it's time to be like, okay, maybe go to a networking event, maybe join a social club, maybe go to a different bar than you usually go to. Thinking about who do I want to become and where are, where is the version of me that I wanna become? Where do they spend time? How do they spend their time? Who do they spend their time with? I'm gonna start doing those things. I'm gonna start acting like her if that's who I wanna be. And so I think that starts with your expanding your circle a little bit. And I think with listening to your own ideas, it's so easy. To, no, no one has their, like, no one has very much of original idea anymore. Me opening a studio is not that groundbreaking. And what I do is I'm not the first nor the last person to do this. Have I gone about things in. A different way to some degree. Sure. Am I the only one to ever do it that way? No. And I know that and that's okay. I don't need to be unique and not like other businesses. It's not that serious. But I think the way that. My business has had success is I really don't pay attention to what my competitors are doing, which I think is probably controversial take. But you will not catch me like looking at what other studios in San Diego are doing. That has respectfully nothing to do with me. I think what I wanna do is, obviously I did market research before I started, like I'm not crazy. I'm calculated, but I think I'm like, I very much the, anything that I roll out or ideas that I have, I really wanna come from me and my team and what I want this place to become. And so, yeah, it's easy to get inspired and obviously I'll see things and I'm like, oh, we could do something like that. But I think when you. Are constantly looking at what your peers or your competitors are doing, it's really easy to, you lose sight of like, do I even wanna do that or am I just doing that because they're doing it? And so I think, you know, it's really easy to get lost in that piece. The same with like I, as a photographer, I don't follow any photographers that I don't know personally, like on a friend basis. I don't follow them like on my personal account or like my business. There's a level of networking. Sure. But like I don't consume content from people who are doing exactly what I am doing. I think some people may pull that and be like, this is really inspirational. And I think for me it's so easy to compare. It's so easy to. Look at someone and be like, oh, well they did that so I should do something like that. Or I should do a shoot like that'cause they did that, or they worked with this brand and I should be working with that brand. Or whatever the case may be. I think like it's really easy to to compare and then you, like you lose your own ideas and you lose, you don't even have your own voice anymore'cause you're constantly competing with whoever it is. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And I think it's easy to get your feelings hurt too in that way. Like you hurt your own feelings. It's like when you look up like someone, someone on Instagram that you shouldn't look up, like an ex or something. Yeah. You're like, I'm gonna hurt my own feelings doing this. You know what I mean? Like, you know what's bad for you, but you do it anyway. Yeah. And so I think to me, I'm like, why would I willingly do that with in business, which I probably care more about than my ex-boyfriend Who cares about that man? But like. When it comes to like business, I think it's, you have to separate business from personal a little bit. And, I feel very strongly about that as well, but I think being able to put the two aside, and I think it helps me when I'm thinking of an idea, I'm not like, you know, looking at a studio down the street, I couldn't even, I know, I know what they are, right? I've heard of them, I've seen them, but I think I'm very much like I'm in my own lane and I'm like, we're gonna roll this out. We're rolling out memberships in the new year and we're doing them in a way that I feel is a little more untraditional for a studio because it's like the way that I want to do it. And the way that I think would be really cool for our community specifically, and not paying attention to what other studios are doing. And'cause it's my own idea that I have, that I wanna like, make happen. And I think it's better that way and less competing, less emulating other people's ideas. It really is like what I wanna do here, what my team wants to do, and what makes sense. And everyone else I can just cut out the noise. Otherwise, I think is, is the best way. It helps, it helps me like stay focused on what I want to do because it's really, it's so easy to be like, oh, well they started doing that, like I should too. And I'm like, mm-hmm. I never would've even wanted to do that if I didn't see what my competitor doing. That. That's so silly. Like, I don't know. I think to me, some people would probably very much disagree and they think you should stay very on top of what your competition is doing. And I just don't think so. I also like, there's just enough to go around in general, so I'm kind of focused on like what we're doing more is my thought. So yeah, I like that perspective. But yeah, I think that's a great response. I'm glad to hear that from you, even though it might be controversial. I also loved what you said about no, it's not that your friends who have nine to fives don't have valuable perspective. No. Or like you should. No, it's like, yeah, no, that doesn't mean like. You know, go uproot your entire cycle right away. And I think that's a common misconception when you hear that like, maybe you need to get in other rooms or around other conversations or change, your close circle. It's just like, how can you incorporate a little bit today? Mm-hmm. And in the future. So I love that you said that, and then Yeah. Just adding to it. Yeah. I think it's like, you don't have to, I would never say that you, like, don't be friends with people who have, that's so silly. Yeah. It's just like adding, adding to it, thinking about who else you spend time with. Mm-hmm. And then to expand into the social media stuff was really valuable as well. Because speaking of social media, there's so much noise and that is where you might hear like the extreme, dialogue around like. It's black and white, like if your circles supporting you, you know, et cetera. But then when you're thinking about competitors or people you draw inspiration from, that fine line between I am so absorbed with what they're doing that I'm now trying to copy. Or I can no longer distinguish the difference between what they're doing and what I'm doing and mm-hmm. Like, you do lose that. I think there is possibility to lose that inner voice, um, or at least have it drowned out a little bit and like lose the reason that you might have started or like what's keeping you going. Mm-hmm. So yeah. I love that you said that and I'm definitely gonna take that away. Especially with even your role models. Mm-hmm. Because I do think there's something to be said for like. Setting a goal or having a vision and then stepping away from maybe where you got that vision from or where you got inspiration from, and then letting yourself figure it out. Mm-hmm. So yeah, that was super helpful and I, I always appreciate hearing entrepreneur's guidance on that topic, because I do think you need to have like a little bit of strength that you draw from within and not from other people and other people's advice and other people's take on your goal, you know? Mm-hmm. But I also wanted to ask you about, how you came to even have like a long-term vision where you were like, you know, I might need to make some sacrifices. In the short term or the long term. So that when it comes to that X year mark, at least I am self-funded and I'll have like more freedom. Like how are you able to have the foresight that that would be valuable? I think if I wanted to or if anybody wants to get rich quickly, like starting a business and or a brick and mortar of any kind is certainly not the way to do it. It is like so long term and I think like, yeah, when I. I was looking at it, I knew that obviously I had to spend a lot of money to start what I was doing. And I was like, it's gonna take a while to ramp up to have it like make money where it starts to like pay back for the investment, right? Whatever. And so I think a lot of the choices that I made were in benefit of the business and I was like, I'm just gonna personally take the hit. Like that's fine. And so, which I've had to do many times and even, you know, this year I've had to take a couple of those as well and is just knowing that it's kind of in that like end belief that I'm like, I do this because I know that what I'm doing is pointing me the right direction. And it will get to a point where I'm like, okay, cool. Yeah, I can go on those nice vacations again and I can take more time off. But I've had like very little time off this year and. Had to jump in, on a lot more than I would like to. And I think that to me is just, I'm like, yep. I just know that's how it's gonna be for a little while and I'm just gonna have to power through and I will survive at the end of the day. Because I know at the end I'm like, I know what I'm doing is good. I know what I'm doing is profitable. And so it's just a matter of taking those sacrifices, which usually are in terms of like financial, I didn't pay myself for over a year when I first like from the studios. And I hired staff instead. And so to me I was like, I'm not taking a paycheck from this. But I'm paying my staff so I don't get burnt out. Was the thought process and so like kind of making those choices of that was like, was that a financial choice? Was I still working a lot? Yes, but I was able to hire staff so I wouldn't like. Super burnout by the end of it. And so I think, I don't know, like looking at it, it was all to me and again, when I first started, so I was living off of my, photography work that was my income, when I first was doing this. And so the studio money, I could pay, my team instead because that just made more sense. Then, I was like, I'm already fine on my like mm-hmm my photo work.'cause I was living off that before I opened this anyway. So to me that was kind of like the same thought process. Like it was an easy thing to make. Obviously I was putting in time at the studio, but that was like an easier thing to make. I was like, I don't need to be making more money. I'd rather invest it back in the business via staff or whatever, or getting another location to be able to put it back in the business rather than put it in my pocket. I think to me, I was like, yeah, I could pay myself. At the time that I was like, that just like doesn't make sense and like what I wanna do, I feel like this could grow a lot bigger and I'd rather like reinvest. Mm-hmm. Since I don't need to live off of this right now, reinvest so then I can grow it bigger so that way when I do decide to pay myself and change, you know, the way that things go, it will make more sense. So that was the original thought process in the way that I did. It was more like long term. I'm like, I don't want this business to operate for two years and me make money in two years. Okay, cool. Whatever. Like, I would like this to operate for 10, and make a lot more money the five to 10 years than like pocketing some. You know, whatever the first two or three. Mm-hmm. And having it not be able to like, grow as quickly as I wanted. So that was kind of my thought process in making that choice. Mm-hmm. It was more like long term Yeah. Planning. Yeah. That's still pretty wise. I mean, like, I just, yeah. I just haven't, in my experience, I like did not know that until I like, did the opposite of that. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. And then I was like, okay, like maybe you need to think more long term about what you really want to do. And that's another thing I think it's like, okay, how do I wanna spend the next 10 years? Mm-hmm. That's a big decision. Mm-hmm. And so yeah, that's like then getting into like. Do I really like this? Like do I like the process of what this entails? Mm-hmm. More than the outcome mm-hmm. Of whatever it looks like. Right. You know? So yeah, that's, and what's your take on that? Do you enjoy the process of running the studio spaces and your remaining photography? On the side. I think it's so funny because like truly mm-hmm. In managing this, like feels, I'm like a glorified cleaning lady. Like all I do is clean all the time. Like today, I, there was an event here last night that ended at 11:00 PM and I was here at 5:00 AM this morning to clean and then let someone in at seven. So like not very glamorous. Yeah. I think it's so funny, a lot of people are like, oh my gosh, that's so interesting. Like, I also just think it, it's not an industry, any creative industry, I think for people who aren't in creative, the creative world is very interesting naturally. And so I think whenever I tell people what I do, they're like, oh, that's so cool. And I'm like, yeah, because, and so it's funny because I'm just like, oh yeah, my day today is Just not what you would assume that it is. And so I'm just like, yeah, I clean all the time, all the time. I'm cleaning and I am like replying to emails and I'm cleaning and I'm replying to messages and I'm cleaning some more, and then I'm buying paper towels and then I'm taking out the trash again and again. And so I think it's just like, it's one of those things that's like silly, like mundane things that like, do I wanna be doing this for the rest of my life? No. Like, do I wanna be cleaning like this? No. I am hiring a cleaning company in the new year. I'm really excited, but, I haven't, I've put it off for a really long time. But I think when I. Like, does anybody actually know what they wanna be doing in 10 years from now? No, but I think when I looked at it, my goal and when I started my business, I really started it not around me. So like, if you like there was a solid, like probably still, like there's some, I started and I had an assistant, her name is Brooke and she was my, like my assistant pre studio. I had hired her, she was like helping me with my shoots and then I opened the studio and she was a part of that. And there was like a very solid chunk of people who thought that she was the owner. And like we would get emails like up until like a year ago, we'd get emails that addressed the two of us, which is like so funny. We would like laugh about it and we're like, how does everyone think Brooke is the owner? Like, I don't understand. But I very much removed myself from The studio.'cause I really wanted it to operate kind of, not like faceless.'cause I do think there is something really beneficial in like attaching like someone to a business, you personalize it. I think like when someone can see behind a business, it's really helpful for them to like support it. But when I opened I really didn't want it to be like the Kate show. And I have like, we have a very, long in my friend group, like I gate keep my last name, like my last name is not on any of my social media. Like I am very much just like, it's just like not about me. And it's not like if you, I Googled myself the other day. I, well, I Googled who's the owner of Studio Casually.'cause I Googled someone else for something and I was like, I wonder what happens if you Google like for another business.'cause I wanted to know who ran it. Mm-hmm. And I like, I was like, I wonder who, what happens if you Google who's the owner of Studio casually? And it just says Kate, which I find very funny. Like my last name is nowhere to be found. Um, wow. But I think I, which like, I don't need to get, my last name is not that serious, but I think like, it's just a funny joke at this point. But I, very much wanted to, I didn't want my business to be like so around me that if I wasn't present it couldn't run. Mm-hmm. Because to me that is a business that's set up to fail. If I want to scale. And so I think I didn't want have to, like, I have to be there all the time. People know that it's me. People expect it to be me. I have to be present at every event and dah, dah, dah, dah. I think I was, I very much didn't want it to be that, and I really wanted, like, the business to be successful with or without me. Where I wanna set it up so I can go on vacation and I don't have to be present. And like in 10 years from now, like I could just be the ceo. Mm-hmm. And it could be fully run by his team of people and it wouldn't change anything. He would still get the same experience, the same, like all the details of it are very personal. I think when people come here, the feedback that I get the most is that it's very warm, it's very welcoming. Mm-hmm. And that is like a lot due to like my staff as well and how they interact with clients the same way that I do. And I'm like. I think to me, there's a lot of times where people come, my favorite like little trick, not trick, but like people will come and they'll be like, oh, like do you work here? And I'm like, yeah. Which is like kind of fun every now and then, you know, you, when you can tell when someone's like being condescending. I don't like it when they're like that because sometimes they're like, are you the owner? And I'm like, don't piss me off. But when someone's like very like cutesy, oh, do you work here? I'm just like, yeah, it happened the other day. There was an event and some girls I was like, oh, if you need trash bags, let me know. They're, you know, they're over here. And she's like, oh, do you work studio casually? And I was like, yeah, I do because I do. It's not a lie. Yeah. But it's just kind of funny. But I think to me that's the best where I'm like, yeah, I can almost be invisible and watch how people experience my business, not from a place that they know that I'm the owner. Yeah. Like it's very. I'm very quiet about it. Mm-hmm. And I'm almost trying to do a little bit less of that. I'm trying to be a little bit more present as a founder.'cause people relate to that and they wanna, they wanna know more in that way. And I think it's, from like a marketing perspective, it's like positive. Mm-hmm. But from a business owner perspective, I really like that. I'm very like, detached from the brand in the business. And it kind of operates outside of myself. I think that was really important to me when I started, which will help me in the long run when I do transition and I'm doing a lot less, the experience for everybody else will be the same. It's not like, oh, now like. The owner isn't there anymore. They never knew I was there to begin with. Yeah. You know, so. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's definitely a flax, I'm not gonna lie. But I also think that's great because I think when you start something and from the beginning, it's so intertwined with you. Mm-hmm. That is a big weight to put on something, and not that people don't do that and it doesn't work fabulously. Mm-hmm. It almost is just like being a content creator, like what I imagine it would be like for them. Yeah. But like as you evolve, like inevitably as a human being, you bring the whole. Audience with you. Mm-hmm. And I think, I don't know from what you're describing, your anecdote about being able to observe how the business functions because you're not known automatically as the creator. that sounds really nice, to have that level of detachment and then when you want to step in and maybe share more, like it's an option. It's not like an obligation that was there from the very beginning. Mm-hmm. So that sounds great. Yeah. It's like constant undercover boss. I love it. Yeah, it's fun. But yeah, I think really and truly, I was like, yeah, I wanna build a successful business and I don't, I don't want it to only be successful because. Of me. Mm-hmm. Like, because I'm there, I want like my business model to be successful and I want people to enjoy my business and support my business because it's a good one and not because they wanna support me. If that makes sense. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So that was my thoughts I guess. Yeah. No, that's great you mentioned this year has been challenging, I think. Mm-hmm. Maybe those different words, but, yeah, I would love to know more about like what kind of things those are or obstacles you've encountered while scaling and growing over the past three years. Yeah. I think this year has by far been the most difficult mm-hmm. For a lot of reasons I think. That a lot were outta my control. We had to relocate. And I basically was like down for like two months for one of my locations.'Cause the elevator in the building wasn't working, which is just like not something you would ever factor in being an issue.'Cause you just assume that's always gonna be fine and then it's down for months and you're, I'm like arguing with our building. And so that was definitely like not a fun time. And one of those where I was like, obviously being down for that long will be a massive financial hit. And so that was one of those where I was like, yeah. I'm the only person that's gonna feel that effect. Mm-hmm. And so that's one of those things where it's like, yeah, I had to kind of make choices and adjust things. And so then I started, I was like, we did some changes, with like staffing, which was like never a fun thing to do, but something that like has to be done. And so I think as a business owner, it's not something that I, not conversations, I love to have to be like, Hey, I have to like cut your hours. Never something I wanna do ever again. But will I have to? Absolutely. I'm sure. But I think those are hard conversations to have and I am, I'm young, all my staff is young. We're all like, know each other really well at this point. And so I think just like not. Not something I anticipated having to do and was very like kind of, I like hit a wall and I was like, there's no other options. This is like the choice that I have to make as a business, but on a personal level, hate it. And so I think that's where making those calls are never fun and only something that I've had to do one time. And so I think is difficult. And in that I was like, well, we have to do a couple staffing adjustments, which means I'm gonna pick up the slack because I don't pay myself. So like the easiest way to save money is for me to do the work and not, you know, staffing is our highest expense outside of you know, like traditional operational costs. And so that was one of those where I was like, yeah, I'm just gonna have to like take on. I had weekends off always. And my staff worked all the weekends and then I was like, well, here, here I am with working weekends again. And so I think one of those things, again, like a sacrifice that I was just like, this is just what has to be done right now. Do I like it? No. Does anyone here like the situation? No. But just kind of like the call that had to be made. And so I think those things are never fun and never easy. And the more, the older I get, I'm 29 now, so like the older I get, I think like the easier these things are. The longer I'm in business, the more that I'm like, it's not, it's not personal. It's never about me. It's never about whatever it is. It's just business calls that have to be made and. Trying to be a business owner and being a business owner with integrity that cares deeply about my staff and the people that come here and making sure everyone feels valued and important is like a really big deal to me. And so I think, yeah, hitting some of the challenges that I've had to, that were a lot of like out of my control, like who would've known that? Like an elevator just went down, impacted me directly, impacted my team directly. We had to fully relocate that location, which was my first location. And so I was a little emo about it for a little while'cause I was like, I don't wanna leave, but it's a five floor walk cup. Are you kidding? So, people don't do that out here. Maybe on the East Coast. People don't do that out here. And so I think. You know, looking at, I've had a lot of things that were very much outta my control, which is just kind of the nature of any business that like, has a location I'm like, at any point in time and like we've had leaks, we've had, you know, lots of different things like that that are just like, we couldn't have anticipated it. And all we can do is just take it and move forward and figure out a plan. So I'm very much somebody who's like, I'm gonna have a freak out for like five minutes, then I'm gonna be fine, and then I'm gonna move to solutions. But I'm always like, I'm gonna have a little like crash out for a second. Mm-hmm. Shed a tear. Maybe a couple, maybe a lot, and then I'll be fine. And so I think I've had a lot of moments like that. But it's just kind of like the nature of it. I think the more, as weird as it is, like the more they happen, the easier it is for me to like bounce back. I think when I first started when things would go wrong, it felt like very debilitating. And very scary. And now it's just like, alright, we just, like, there's nothing I can do besides like, figure out a way through. And so a little more like solutions oriented, I think. Yeah. In the beginning when I just used to be like, this is my baby and I would like freak out, versus now I'm just like, yeah, like things are gonna get ruined, things are gonna go wrong. A plant's gonna get stolen. You know, like things are just, things happen all the time. A hole's gonna get punched in the wall and I'm just gonna have to fix it and move on with my day. Has that happened? That has happened. Just one though. Some of three, three holes. Just wide though. It was a fraternity Okay. Event. And they, we don't do those anymore. And that was a learning lesson for us all. Yeah, truly that was a, that was a really bad one. I, I really was like. Holes in the wall. Yeah. And then I fixed them myself. Wait, is that a situation where You then are like, is there some sort of like legal thing we can do with booking? Where, like how does that work? They got charged for it. Okay. Okay. Good. They had to pay for it. Okay. Yeah. They had to pay for it. And that's like all built in, too, it was like through the platform that we had them through. Oh. But yeah, so they got billed. That all was fine. It goes through like a process to get approved and stuff, but it was relatively seamless. But yeah, I did patch three holes Right. Myself. Okay. Yeah. That's definitely like a curve ball. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So lots of like strange things this year that I just was like, made the first two years just look so easy and then suddenly I'm like, what's going on? Yeah. Just strange things that you just wouldn't anticipate. Every time I think I like understand what's going on here and I've like got some things in place, something will happen and I'm like, what? Like, what's going on? Like, someone took our chair yesterday, like completely took it. Okay. Yeah. And I was like, Hey, this morning I was like, Hey, are chairs missing? Like, did you take that? And they're like, yes. And they brought it back, like, and they took it accident. They took it on accident. Okay. That's right. Which like, I assume half the time, like things like that truly are accidents. But I really was like, yeah, I never thought, you know, that I would have to be like, did you take a a chair home with you? Did I think it was theirs? I guess. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. Strange things happen all the time. And that's I just was like, okay, happened with our plant recently as well, like a fully potted plant, like bigger than these plants here in a ceramic pot gone also, they, that never got returned and never got found. Okay. Yeah. Those, I don't know how long, I'm like, whose living room is that plant? And I'm dying to know. I would love to know. It's gone though. Okay. Yeah. Good. Just strange things, so Yeah, yeah, yeah. I never know what to expect. Truly. And it's, yeah, I, and now I used to wig out, like that would really, I would be so, felt like I, like un what's it called? I can't think of the word suddenly, but it would just really throw me off. Yeah. And I just would struggle to recover, like something would happen like that. And I'm like, what do you mean our chair's gone? What do you do? And now I just was like, Hey, you got our chair, can you bring it back? And they're like, yeah. And I was like, okay, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. Like worst case what? We have to get a new chair. Okay. And I will, I will learn from this situation inevitably. Mm-hmm. So yeah. But it's, it's a lot of little challenges all the time. I think it's just figuring out, navigating it and I'm a lot more calm about it than I used to be. It really used to, I think, throw me off so much. I had a really hard time adjusting back. And I would take things more personally. If someone didn't had a bad experience or they, you know, they didn't like X, Y, Z, it would really, we'd get like, we've had like two bad reviews ever and like the first one I was in a panic and then the sec, like we got one a couple months ago and I just was like, okay, like that's natural. We have what, 685 star reviews? Like Yeah. The sta statistically we are, we are due for a couple one stars. It's okay. Not everyone is gonna have the best experience all the time. It's just in the numbers. Yeah. And I'm like, I can't take that personally. Yeah. Because like, listen, I've written a one star review too for a place that had amazing reviews, you know what I mean? It's just the nature of the name of the game. And so taking it a lot less personal than I used to, I think helps, has helped me so much. And I think that's just with age, like when I first opened I was 25. Okay. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I was 25, almost 26, I think. Yes, that's right. So I think I'm like, yeah, my brain's also developed. Mm-hmm. I'm like, I'm fully cooked over here. Yeah. So I'm like, yeah. I handle things in my personal life and in business across the board. I handle things so much more differently than I did when I was 25. Mm-hmm. Than I first started, and I didn't know what I was doing and everything felt personal all the time. Yeah. And it just was never, it just never is. It's just business. Yeah. Yeah. It's good to hear that it's evolved for you and that it's gotten easier. You started this at 25 and I asked you that question about like, you know, do you enjoy the process of this, You saw yourself doing it for a long time, like how do you know what you think you're gonna like doing? Mm-hmm. My question is to someone maybe figuring out what they wanna do or how they wanna spend the next X amount of years. what do you say to them? Because I feel like it's a lot of pressure to start something, not know if you are gonna like it in so many years. But you started this when you were 25 and like here you are now at 29, still going. Mm-hmm. I don't know how, what would you say to someone like that to relieve some of the pressure of. Committing to mm-hmm. A business like no one's holding a gun to your head so you, you don't have to do it forever. I could very well in a year or two years be like, I actually hate this. I don't wanna do it anymore. Okay. And I could stop. And I think a lot, there's so much pressure and people making decisions that feel definitive. I feel people feel very similarly about moving. They're like scared to move.'cause it feels definitive. But I'm like, no one says you can't move back if you don't like it. Like when I was moving here, I think it was like, oh, but like is San, are you gonna like San Diego? You've never, like I had been to San Diego one time for a week. Mm-hmm. And I stayed in pb, which like, I hate pb. I probably haven't been back to PB since. And I'm like, yeah. And I moved here and I just was like, yeah, if I hate it, then I will just like move somewhere else or I'll go back. To the same city that I moved from. Okay. At least I tried like mm-hmm. Who cares? I think the end of it, it's financially is where you feel it. Right. And so, yeah, I think I understand from a financial standpoint is like there's a loss. Financially, oughts are, but like, okay, there is with everything. Like everything's expensive. And so I think you could very easily start a business, find out you hate it, and stop doing it. I could stop doing this next year. And would I consider that a failure? No. And I don't think anybody you ask except maybe a handful of people that probably don't like me to begin with would say that's like a failure. Oh, she couldn't make it. I don't think anybody would have that viewpoint of me. Mm-hmm. And if they do, I probably wouldn't be listening anyway. Like I don't care. But I think if, yeah, There's no rule that says you have to keep doing it forever. You could switch what you want. I've switched what I've wanted to do a dozen times since I was in 10 years, probably like mm-hmm. Yeah, when I was 19, I moved out when I was 19, and so I'm like, I've, I've had a ton of jobs over that time and even since I've started working for myself, the way my role, my job and what I do has evolved immensely. I mean, I've. Was director of marketing was my role, like when I first started freelancing. And then I was like, technically I just did social media for a ton of people in consulting and then I was doing photo work and then I decided I, I'm gonna open the studio. And then the studio was like, oh, these are studio and event spaces and we do in-house events and we run this market and we do this. So I'm like, what I do has shifted. Immensely. The studio has shifted immensely since I opened it three years ago, and we'll probably continue to do so. I don't an anticipate it running the same as it does now. Mm-hmm. A year from now, two years from now. I think it's naturally the market's gonna shift. What I want to do with it is gonna shift. And so if I don't feel like doing this anymore and I quote unquote hate it, or it's, I wanna pursue something else, I will just do that. And I think that's fully okay. I don't think people give themselves enough permission to just, people should quit more often. People should try things more often and they should quit them more often. I think. I remember I was, I grew up playing the piano and my, I played for nine years and my parents did not want me to quit, and I just wanted to quit. I, I was like, I don't care anymore. I'm like, I'm 17, you know, I care about like other things. And. I just didn't, I didn't care anymore and I didn't wanna play anymore. And I remember they were like, no, you've, you've invested so much time. It's like this song, it's like when you're in a relationship that like should have ended, but you've invested so much time. Guilty. And you just it should have ended a lot sooner than it ended. Mm-hmm. But I think in my head I was like, well, I've invested all this time in this person or whatever and piano, whatever it is. But like, if it's not working anymore, why the fuck are you still doing it? Like, it's okay. Sorry. I don't know if you curse on this podcast. That's great. I don't know why, like, why it feels necessary to continue to force it. Yeah. And it could be a business that is doing extremely well and you could still decide be like, I don't wanna do it anymore. Yeah. So I wanna pursue X, Y, Z and you could sell the business. You could close it. Who cares? And so I think, yeah, there's like, there's, doesn't have to be pressure. I think the pressure is usually put on by yourself and I think yeah, if I was to close this in a year, would I probably be beating myself up on the inside a little bit? Absolutely. But like is anyone else? No, not at all. Right. And I think that is something you just, it's your own. If you're, you're the only one that's telling you you have to do something, X, Y, Z, you don't have to commit for 10 years just because Do I see myself still doing a form of this five years from now? Probably. Will it look different? Will my day to day with this look different? Absolutely. I hope so. If it doesn't, I won't be doing this anymore. I can tell you that much. But I think it's, it's good to try things and fail and not like it and decide you wanna do something else. And I think, I mean, I used to own a clothing company that was my first baby business before I did any of this. And I remember when I like stopped doing it, I was like, oh, like is this fail? No, no, no. And I look back and I'm just like, yeah, like all of those things pointed me to doing what I'm doing now. And it's like a nice little like fun piece of lore. I get a drop every now and then, you know? Yeah. There's no, like, no one's telling you you have to do it forever. You can choose to. But it's very well, like my mind could change anytime. Mm-hmm. And this could look very different and I think that's like totally fine and Okay. And I think more people should go about things like that. It doesn't have to be forever. It could be, And I think it's wise to look at starting a business with long-term thoughts because it is a lot of like work time, energy sacrifice, and a lot of times you don't see that result right away. Yeah. Um,, And so with that in mind, I think it's an important thing to think about. But no one says you have to stay and do it forever. Yeah. You just stop. Yeah, definitely. Thank you for saying that. Yeah, that's really much needed response to that and a good reminder to be gentle with yourself and the pressure. Mm-hmm. I do think that that's something that's always on my mind because Yeah. Like it's that push and pull between I wanna be smart about this and I wanna plan and I wanna foresee to the best of my ability, Where this is gonna take me, otherwise I don't wanna invest in it. And then accepting the fact that we are always changing and you don't even know what it's gonna be like until you're in it and like mm-hmm. You don't know what it's gonna be like year to year, whether it's just even just your job, like Yeah, like, or like say you're in like in a nine to five as well. So yeah, it's a good reminder that you can walk away and you don't need to keep doing something once you've decided like. Oh, I hate this. Like, goodbye. Yeah. Just quit. Yeah. Like, yeah. I mean, like, you could be kind of smart about it, like I'm a calculated risk girl, but I'm like, yeah, you could just quit. It's okay. Mm-hmm. To quit things. I think our generation was raised by the like Gen X and like maybe boomer. Mm-hmm. Like, you're not allowed to quit. And I'm like, why? Don't be a quitter. Yeah. And everyone has a participation trophy, but like quit. Yeah. If you don't like doing it, why? I mean, listen, there's plenty of days that I don't like what I'm doing and I'm like, I push through a lot of them, but like, yeah. If in three years this looks exactly as it does today, I won't do this anymore. Mm-hmm. Because I'm like, this is not what I want it to look like. And so I'm like, I'm putting in the work so it doesn't look that way. But if it still does, girl. I am done. I won't do it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like I think it's, yeah, it's just like, okay, it's okay. Mm-hmm. No one is forcing you to like stay the way. I think a lot of people are really scared of, like, it's a lot of fear and a lot of people like scared to be embarrassed, like people are embarrassed to start a business and have it not work. Or people are embarrassed to start a podcast and have it like not get as many. Whatever listeners, or they're scared to post content and have it only get 200 views. Like, yeah. Okay. Yeah. But everybody has to start somewhere. You can't like, go viral on your first video. I mean, you can, but like you probably won't. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like, your first episode of your podcast isn't gonna get Yeah. Thousands of views. I'm not gonna start a business and sell out the first day. That's just not feasible. So I think there's something really honestly badass about putting yourself out there and like just being like, yeah, I'm just gonna take the risk'cause I believe in it and I'm gonna put in the work to have it be what I know that it can be. Without being scared of. It's all about like how people perceive you. Like I think a lot more people would be willing to take a lot of risks if they didn't feel like they would be judged. Mm-hmm. I think that's a big part of it. So it's just like canceling out the noise. Yeah, definitely. Especially because I think people move on to the next thing right away and they were never thinking that deeply about it anyway. Whereas I know I tend to hyper fixate on whatever I've put out and I think that people are thinking about it more than they typically are and I'm definitely guilty of that. Because yeah, I was Very scared to take a step back from this podcast, for example, because I was like, you need to be consistent. That's what all the successful people do. They just keep doing it forever. But I just was like not enjoying it anymore. Obviously we're here now and like I'm excited about it again. But I think like it's just a good reminder to not take it too seriously and don't force yourself to do something that like you're clearly not enjoying at that point. Mm-hmm. And that's different than, this is challenging for X, Y, and Z, but it still is what I want and I see something here and I wanna go for it and push past like, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Knowing when to be like, mm-hmm. Yeah, I don't need to do this anymore, versus like, yeah. Powering through. Mm-hmm. The heart times for sure. Yes. But I would love to ask you one more question, I would love to hear what you really like about what you do for work today. Mm-hmm. I think I. I really like that I get to do a lot of things. I think I am very much somebody who doesn't like doing the exact same thing every day. And so I think with what I do, I get that good split of like my creative brain and then my like business owner brain.'Cause I am like a data analytics girly in my heart of hearts. And so I think owning a business, there's a lot of that, like the backend side I really enjoy, which I think is the worst part, part for a lot of people. Listen. The worst part for a lot of people is like the business ownership like piece, like all the backend stuff sucks. And I think I really enjoy that part. Mm-hmm. And I still gotta have like my creative stuff with my photo work and all of that. I think truly what the best part about what I do and truly I've like met all of my best friends through here. And it's funny, I just did a Friendsgiving with, we had like 60 people here. It was like friends and then they all invited their friends. So kind of like an extended group. And I think 90% of my friends I've like made through here, or like really gotten close to through here. And I think that is like really special to me. And a lot of people have made a lot of really good friends here and met partners here. I think to me this space is very big on like connection. A lot of people have, Made really close like bonds here, which I think is really special. Obviously we like have people rent us out for weddings and whatever. So I think there's, there's a lot of like love in this space. Mm-hmm. Um, and. I think the people that I get to interact with, I, I meet so many, our, our audience is mainly women. And so I'm like meeting and talking to, female business owners all the time. A lot of like photographers, but then just like business owners in general, people rent it all the time for events, of course, but like for their photo shoots, for their business. And I think I am a very small piece of so many people's stories and like the beginnings of their business. It's like a lot of people come here for, I think I, and I remind my team of this too, or here all the time. So it feels very this is like my second home. And so it's really easy to forget the specialness of it, but a lot of people come here and they're celebrating something very important and they're investing money, to be here. To do a shoot for their business for the first time, or they're shooting maternity photos because they're gonna have a baby. Mm-hmm. Or family photos or whatever it is. And, a lot of like really special moments are captured here. And I think that, obviously this place is very special to me, but I think it's really cool that it's special to so many other people as well. And I think the people that I get to interact with really make what I do so special and like fulfilling to me. And I get to be a part of so many people's stories in one way or another. And I've obviously, I've made so many close friendships. But yeah, I think it's a mix of obviously gonna run a business and I get to do that. I love doing that. But then outside of that, I really get to be a part of a lot of other people's beginnings of their business. Hmm. And that's always kind of been a big, a big part of what we do and something I'm leaning more into next year too, in some other, you know, programming that we're kind of working on. But yeah, I think getting to be a part of other people's, like starting, I remember. When I had my little clothing company and I did my first photo shoot, I rented out a studio and I like remember that day very vividly. Mm. And I lived in Portland at the time. This was like way before I moved here. And it was like such a big day and such an important day to me. And I have photos of myself there and I like look back, I'm like, oh, wow. What a time. My first time ever renting a studio and I remember it was it was an investment. Mm-hmm. And it was a really big deal Yeah. For me. And I'm like, yeah. I think knowing that I gotta have that feeling, and knowing like I get to give other people that feeling like I. Dozens of time a month, you know? Yeah. Every day basically. Someone's here doing that. And I think that feels really is an honor to me to get to be a little piece of so many other people's businesses. I'm obviously like very passionate about, like women, which is why we like, we cater mostly to women. Obviously men come here too. Mm-hmm. But like our audience is primarily women, which I think is. It's rare to get to like work with so many women in a technically like male dominated space. Like creative fields and like productions are more like male dominated. And so not being that I think is really cool and special. And I think, yeah, it's really nice to get to interact with so many other, women owned businesses. And just like people that are doing really cool shit that I feel like I get to watch, grow. And even with some events we've had, like I've seen, you know, there was a female owned. Comedy, they like did a comedy show here once a month and we had a long-term partnership with them and watching them grow and now they're in a different venue and they've grown and they sell out every time. Mm-hmm. And I'm just like, yeah. That's really cool to get to be a part of that and watch that grow. And so yeah, I think it's such a blend of all the things that matter to me that I think I get to be a part of all the time. Mm-hmm. So I'm like, yeah, I clean a lot and I like write a lot of emails and stuff, but I think that's the piece where the human element, um mm-hmm. That I think is really special. And what is I prioritize and how I, how we operate really centers around around that. That's why we don't do like key key. Keypads. Yeah. Keypads of the door. That's why we don't do that. So people just don't just let themselves in and out and they never see us. The majority of the time, me or my team is here, like meeting every person. Yeah. And we get to be a little bit more involved in that way, which was really intentional. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds great. I forgot what I was gonna say. I was just liking listening to you talk about it. But Oh, I was gonna say, yeah, I'm just so grateful for this conversation.'cause obviously you're an example of someone who has created their own job that does not exist or like, you know, like you kind of just created it from scratch and builded it piece by piece until like now here you are. Mm-hmm. And yeah, I love hearing examples of that and why you love it and why it's like valuable to you. And so yeah, I'm just grateful for this conversation and all the guidance that you shared. And going back and describing All like all these steps along the way and the challenges, and I think people will find it really valuable. So thank you. Yeah, thanks for having me. This.