Raised on the Farm
Join some North Carolina friends who were raised on the farm talk farm, food, and all things agriculture. It's a podcast for more than just farmers. Everything is on the table.
Raised on the Farm
35: Keeping the Land-- Brandon Batten on Farmland Loss & Preservation
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We sit down with Brandon Batten, a farmer in Johnston County, NC to talk farming, faith, farmland loss/preservation, and the importance of getting involved in our communities.
Johnston County is is among the top 5 fastest growing counties in the state and one of the top counties nationally for farmland loss.
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Growing Up On A Family Farm
SPEAKER_02Well Brand Brandon, welcome to Raise on the Farm Podcast. Everything here is on the table, and I know you'll put it on the table because uh we've been involved with you before on a panel over at UMO. Uh I told Marissa the night we left that panel. I said we've got to get Brandon on the podcast. Uh he's got some good stories to tell.
SPEAKER_03Oh Mercy. I appreciate the opportunity to be here. I'm glad to glad I was able to join you guys. For sure.
SPEAKER_02Well, tell us a little bit about yourself, Brandon. Um tell us about being raised on the farm, your family, give us a little the low down.
SPEAKER_03Okay, yes, I'm uh one of the fortunate few that was able to be raised on a farm. Live in a little farming community um like every other country crossroads called Strickland's Crossroads, just south of Four Oaks. Um been on the farm my whole life since I was big enough to jump from one of my dad's footsteps to the next. Um very fond memories of riding on the armrest of my grandfather's you know Ford truck when I was three or four years old. Um just always been outside. You know, my generation didn't grow up with iPads and video games. I remember my very first Nintendo, the original one, like was a big deal, you know. So um just being being part of the family, come from a big family. You know, everybody farmed in the community. A lot of my extended family farmed back in the in the day, and um, it was just the you know the way life was. I didn't know any different, enjoyed it. We had hogs back then, so we were fair to finish independent hog operation. That's my very first memories on the farm. Um kind of got out of that in the early 90s when everything started integrating, um, expanded our row crops, um, tobacco, cotton, we grew cotton for a while, corn, wheat being pretty much everything we've tried at some point in time or another. Um fast forward till I was in high school, wanted to farm. There was not any way this farm could support my return. So uh my grandpa was always a he was a great businessman, forward thinker. He said, Okay, if you want to farm, I'll try to help you all I can, but you got to go get an education. Went to NC State, um, ag engineering, that's what I did my major in. While I was in college, that the bike or buyout happened. That kind of changed the landscape. And um while I was at state, I had the opportunity to get a master's degree. Um, so I did that, and still was a little unsure. Um by by 2010, when I finished my master's degree, the opportunity was there to come home and grow the farm, try to support my return. And um 15 years later, 16 years almost now, that's still what I'm trying to do. So um, you know, love growing up, the experiences, the memories, um, and just always wanted to be able to do that and and didn't know if I'd have the opportunity, and I did, and I've I'm not a lot of days I've questioned my sanity, I've not regretted that that decision yet. Um, you know, being able to raise my kids on the farm like I was raised is is a dream come true.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome. And you so you have how many kids?
SPEAKER_03I have three. I have three children. I have a son, he's ten, uh, and twin girls that are six. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01They keep you busy.
SPEAKER_02How how is um how's the farm set up? I mean, did you did your uncle live beside you and everybody lived kind of in the same area? What's that look like?
SPEAKER_03So where I grew up, mom and daddy's house wit was, you know, eighty yards from my uncle's house, and that was a half a mile from my grandparents' house, all in the same block, like you know, contiguous land kind of I could ride the four-wheeler and not get on the road, kind of deal. Um, my grandpa started the farm originally, that's that's a whole nother story. So he was one of the youngest children of nine to sharecroppers. By the time he caught old enough, his older brothers had kind of consumed the family farm. There really wasn't room for him. He got a public job for a while, got laid off in the late 70s, he had started farming on the side some, as many people did back then. Um, went into it full-time in the late 70s. He and my grandmother, my dad, and uncle incorporated in 1985, the same year I was born. So um since then we've been a corporation. Um, still going strong 41 years in February, is how long the farm's been in business officially.
SPEAKER_01And you guys are triple B farms?
SPEAKER_03That's correct. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Where does the where is the triple B?
SPEAKER_03I guess it came from my grandpa, my dad, and my uncle.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03Or the original three. So I guess that's where it came from. I really never heard that story other than that's just what was always told. But my grandmother was an integral part, she was a bookkeeper, so she she did all the financing and the and the bill paying. So she was very much involved when I was a child. Even through college.
SPEAKER_01So do you know what generation you you are in farming?
SPEAKER_03Recently I have found out that I am the seventh generation in my family department. Uh I've trust I've just found out now it hadn't all been in the same area, but let me get this right. My great great great great grandfather was a farmer.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_03So that's at least back, I don't know how far, but we were never, I mean, we don't have any like grant land from the King of England. I mean, we were always poor sharecroppers moving from place to place. So um, but I I did I have traced it back seven generations that were farming.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02That is incredible. Brandon, I I I want to give you an opportunity to tell me a little bit about um about faith in farming. Uh, you know, I read a lot of your um your your podcast on Friday, and a lot of them tie back to your faith. Uh so share with us a little bit about your faith journey and and maybe how that's uh impacted your farming career.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I've you know, like everybody, my journey has been kind of a curvy road, more so than a straight and narrow. Um I always grew up in a little church we still go to here in the community. Um, when I was younger, it was a lot bigger than it is now. Very active youth group. You know, always seen my family, we all you know prayed before meals and all that. And I guess, you know, I I I was saved and baptized in my teen, teenage years and and understood all that and still do. But as you get older and you start to have stronger opinions and question things and think about things, I kind of uh I didn't really stray, maybe I just um was more inquisitive. Um but in agriculture, I mean, there's you know, I was trained as an engineer in school, so I'm a scientist, I'm a thinker, problem solver, whatever. Um if you just look at the world we live in and how I make my living with the soil and the plants and the animals and all of the things that had to happen to be the precise right distance from the sun, for our atmosphere to be the correct thickness of composition, for all of this to happen. I just it's too much to be a coincidence. So, you know, that leads to you know, an intelligent design, and that must mean there's a creator. And um, you know, I don't see how anybody can be in agriculture anymore, or even even when I was a kid, we had hard times too. I just was too young or naive to recognize them. Um but without without that faith, I mean, just um I think you know, I told Nelson Powell, y'all may know him one time, I think it's uh it's kind of unfair to compare because I feel like farmers have a higher baseline of faith maybe than the general population just because of the way we make our living. I mean, put you know, putting millions of dollars in the ground and hoping it rains would not sound like a very good business proposition, but you know, in the very simplest terms, that's kind of what we do. Um, you know, I've seen I've seen the Lord bless me in in various ways. I've had I've seen prayers answered and I've had prayers answered no. And um, you know, it just if the hard times are what draw you closer to your family and closer to your faith and and make those make you appreciate the good times better. Um, you know, if nothing else, if I can teach my kids to love the Lord and love their neighbor, uh treat folks like they want to be treated, that's that's all I can ask for.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. And you know, we've all seen babies born. That's uh that's a miracle to me. But what I appreciate about you most, Brandon, is that you are attentive to it and you see those things like your glove being torn and you see that you know it'll maybe it'll hold for one more season and you tie it back to uh your faith journals. Uh keep on doing that. I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_03Well, I appreciate that too. Part of that's just because I'm broke and two people. I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do. Now that really is a prayer hoping that thing will hold well.
SPEAKER_02100%. Well, look, um, you know, we I we really want to jump in. I know um when we were with you at the um UMO uh panel, we talked a little bit about farmland preservation and uh and we are um interested in it. We understand it's a complex issue. Uh but we want to talk about it a little bit with you. I mean you live in Johnson County. Um just give me some a rundown, maybe some stats about Johnson County. I know it's right next to Wake County. Wake County is uh booming. Just uh just overview that for me from 20,000 feet.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so we are the you know immediate county to the southeast of Wake County. I my farm is about 45 or 50 miles southeast of Raleigh, um, which is just a good commute anymore. Um Johnston County has always been a bedroom community for RTP and and Raleigh. Um but really over the past I would say two decades since the early 2000s, the growth has really exploded with some growth of industry and then Wake County getting listed as
Education, Returning Home, And Farm Growth
SPEAKER_03the best place to live and best place to raise a family, and NC State success as a university, which is all good, has just attracted people, you know, leaving maybe not so hospitable environments in other parts of the country and coming here and and loving it because of you know the folks that we are. And I think now we've got over 250, maybe 280,000 residents. Um and and we are one of the fastest growing counties in the country. Um we're always kind of top two or three in the state, depending on what time they measure and who's going where, but um certainly you know that that comes with its own set of challenges. Um the farmland laws really began whenever we did a good thing by running county water everywhere in the county, but we also opened the door to all the development. When you got county water run by, why not? I mean, you can put an acre lot, Messepi tank, and uh all the houses you want. And that's that's essentially how it started, and that's kind of what we're trying to fix right now. We're neck deep rewriting our our development ordinances, and I've been pretty involved in that, trying to you know make it easier for developers to concentrate near the services and municipalities that exist and kind of uh preserving what little bit of farmland we got left if there's a way to do that.
SPEAKER_01When did you start really realizing, hey, I need to get involved?
SPEAKER_03Um, probably I mean, pretty much as soon as I came home. Whenever I came home in 2010, we we picked up a lot of land, um, kind of back in the four oaks elevation, closer to the 40, you know, McGee's Crossroads 319 interchange, which is a very fast-growing area. Um jokingly, here in the county we call it 4042 2.0. Um, but you know, and then once we picked up that land and grew our farm and expanded in that direction, we started losing land because it would have a generational transition, someone would pass away or they'd decide to sell, and then it's gone. I I obviously could not afford to buy it farming. They were getting $30,000 to $50,000 an acre for development, and it was booming. And I mean, I drive by farms every every day that I used to tend that now have houses and streets on them. And I I it's just I knew it wasn't sustainable because it it wasn't happening in any kind of rhyme or reason. It was very haphazard, sprawling, you know, making you know, there might be a farm left between two subdivisions, but you can't get to it now because of the houses and traffic and whatever. So I started talking with people, you know, first in extension and soil and water, and then eventually the county commissioners and state legislators, and uh, I've always been involved in other issues, um, growing Debica and stuff. We we lobby a lot for agriculture. Labor is a big one. So I've been involved with Farm Bureau and just putting all that together um and and being a voice for for my my industry and my home and my passion. Um Mark Well has a good friend in Princeton says it's a poor frog that won't croak for his own pond. So I try to croak for uh every chance I get for agriculture.
SPEAKER_02That's good. Uh when we think about agricultural reasons some of this farmland has been um released for development or sold for development, I mean that is are those farmers going out of business? Are those generational uh that generational transfer going to generations that don't appreciate farming or don't you know care to come back to the farm? Let's talk about some of those reasons.
SPEAKER_03I think a lot on the chat, I really think, you know, the family's not involved in agriculture. They may have inherited a farm from their parents, which would be like my grandparents' generation. And they wanted to keep the land, you know, and and we rent a lot of land. You know, I don't think I don't really see the the farmer-owned land as what's turning over. Most of it's rented land that we tend for other people. Um and then either they they pass away or their children get it through whatever mechanism, and you know, they may have moved moved away, they may live at Carolina Beach or Raleigh or Charlotte or another state, and they don't need a 40-acre farm in Johnston County, and they look up what real estate prices are and they're like, oh wow, and maybe they've got a sibling, and you know, land's expensive to maintain, you've got to pay the taxes and and deal with trespassers and whatever, and and deal with a farmer trying to call you and rent it, and um it's it's easy to divide money, you know. So a lot of times that that situation is what happens and it's sold, and they don't have any connection to the land. Um, you know, they might have came and visited their grandparents when they were kids, and and that's that's the way it goes most of the time. You know, occasionally right now I still tend to farm that the kids got it and I help them enroll it, you know, in present use value, and we've gotten some um some things done, voluntary ag district, that they are very dead set on keeping the land in agriculture. Um and and I appreciate that. But you know, at the same time, I don't fault the people for selling the land, but it's unfortunate that there's not a way to keep it in production and still let them realize some of that value, you know, that they can use.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it really is a you know, it's a balancing act uh between housing and infrastructure and and then protecting our farms and ranches. I mean, I you know, how communities go about finding that delicate balance is just Yeah,
Faith, Farming, And Resilience
SPEAKER_02I don't know where to start. I mean, I wish I had a solution. I don't even know where to begin, though.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think it it ultimately just takes a ton of communication. You know, I hear all the time people move here, they love it, they love looking out their window and seeing the tractor go by or seeing the fields and the crops and all it's so beautiful, and then two years later they're mattered and sand because now they're looking at another subdivision where they used to see a beautiful field and they don't like it, they're not happy anymore. And you know, the very reason they moved here, somebody else moved here, and now it's upset them.
SPEAKER_02So and you're saying tell me about it, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I said, well, you know, that's that's the way it goes. So and there's actually a big scientific term for that. I can't remember the last settler syndrome. I don't know, some of them everybody wants to be the they want it to stay exactly like it was when they they got here. So and it is a balance, you know. There's there's a lot of opportunity, but there's also a lot of cost with all these people moving in. My kids go to probably one of the largest elementary schools in the county. Um, they just we were over a thousand and eighty kids last year. They opened a new elementary school that kind of pulled from three other ones, and we're down to nine hundred and eighty. I mean, that's just a K-5 school uh in four of us. So, you know, it it it does put a strain on all the resources beyond just the water and sewer and electrical grid and and emergency services and all the things we do, you know, that folks don't necessarily think about beyond land and agriculture and housing. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well even just traffic.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Traffic is is amazing.
SPEAKER_01Tell me tell me tell me about that with with the tractor.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I've got places like if we're if we're working in a field and it gets past a certain time of day, we're not moving. I mean, I can't move down the road safely until either after dark or the next morning just because of traffic, whether it be school or work traffic coming home or whatever. I mean, if we can't get moved, you know, before 3 30 in this stretch of road, we're not going on that road just because it's too too big of a risk that we're gonna get hit or or heaven forbid hit somebody that's not paying attention. Um and it it does add a whole nother layer of logistics, trying to plan your operation, plan, you know, I can't always control that I'm going to be able to finish that field and get moved. Something might break inevitably or whatever. And um but yeah, I mean it definitely adds another layer of logistics and concern that that people don't realize.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You really don't think about traffic being an issue in a farming community, you know.
SPEAKER_03Until you pull out with a combine or a you know, a tractor and a four-road bedder or a cultivator or something that's you know fifteen, sixteen feet wide and everybody's on their phone and they don't pull over or slow down until they're in the ditch and yeah, it's not a good situation. That's rough.
SPEAKER_02I heard you mention present use value. Uh tell me about that uh tax deferred program and just I know it's a big help to farmers, um, but is it enough?
SPEAKER_03I mean um just talk about that program so we can Yeah, so Present Use Value is a statutory program from the state of North Carolina basically saying uh if your farm, you know, if you're making a living off the land, whether it be through timber or agriculture, and you have a forestry management plan or a managed farm with three years of data where you have generated gross,
Johnston County’s Rapid Growth
SPEAKER_03I believe it's revenue, not income, gross revenue off of that land, you can enroll in this present use value taxation, which basically def the taxes from the best and highest use value to a state set level, which is drastically reduced. I mean, it's tremendous savings for landowners. Um, and without that, I don't think we'd be farming like we are because people couldn't afford to pay the taxes off of the rent we can afford to pay. Um, but it it's a good program. And and beyond that, so you know, a farm, say I got a farm on tendon that's enrolled in present use value, and they decide to sell it and build houses on it. Well, when they sell it, they owe three years of back taxes off of that land at the the highest rate. And so recently, a few years ago, we were able to convince the commissioners to take that money that they're collecting from the present use value look back and put it in a farmland preservation fund to help to help supplement the uh the efforts going by the state. And then it worked great. I mean, they got a lot of money, and then I think they saw how much money it was, and they kind of said, hey, this is too much money, we might need to put a throttle on this. Um, but they do they do contribute a significant amount to the farmland preservation. But but it's just another vehicle to try to keep help people keep their land in production and keep it in agriculture and and give them an incentive not to necessarily have to sell just to pay the taxes. Um it changes generations, you know, that form just has to be filled out every time the land changes titles. So I fill them out all the time when grandma dies and and and inherits the land, and I fill out a new form, and it's you know, business as usual. And and that that is again just communication, having a good relationship with the landowners and letting them know. I mean, I had one that had no clue, and I didn't realize her form on the end. I signed her up and she sent me a Christmas card thanking me for how much you know tax money she saved.
SPEAKER_02Oh, so you there was a lady that was not involved in that for the yeah, she was not enrolled in it and.
SPEAKER_03I I helped her enroll and she did she had no clue and and it it was a huge savings.
SPEAKER_02I can see where that I mean you know you talked about that program, the loot back program, uh garnering a lot of of uh money there for a little while. I bet I bet you know three years of back taxes on a property can add up, especially in that county.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I think we stole that from somebody. I want to say it might have been Alaman, it was a county west office that had done something similar, and um, and we tr we floated it by here and we got them, you know, we got them to agree to it, and then they realized how big because I mean you look at like land appraised at $30,000 an acre or whatever for development purposes, and then I think this I can't remember, don't quote me on this. It's like $900 or $1,800 an acre, the value they use for the present value program. It's significant lower. Well, but I mean that's that rate is set by the state and it changes you know periodically as they review it, and there's a different rate for timber land that's that's even lower than that.
SPEAKER_02So they got the programs that are conservation easement programs. I mean, uh tell me about I mean what what would entice somebody to put their land in a conservation easement? I mean, because it kind of restricts it, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it does. It would take a lot of long-term planning and and definitely family conversations and commitment beyond just one generation. So the biggest one is the agricultural um farmland preservation program. And basically, they have several different levels, but you can sell the development rights from your farm, basically. And it can be a term, you know, 10, 10 years, 20 years, or perpetuity, whatever, whatever program options they have. Um, and basically what they do is look at your property, determine if it is significant in a historical way. You know, I live three miles from Bentonville Battlegrounds, so that you know it's a historically significant area, too. Does it have a significant soil type to the state? Is it a sentinel landscape? All there's all kinds of criteria, it's a very involved application, very involved checklist of things that qualify and get you points to get you funded, right? And essentially what they do is they'll pay you the difference between best and highest use and you know ag use, essentially if it's in ag land. But that also is very restrictive. You've got to have all of your plans made before you enroll because once that property's enrolled, then it has to stay whole as that conservation easement. It can't be split or divided. You know, like if I had a hundred-acre farm and farmland preservation, my three kids would have to inherit it together. They couldn't each get a 33-acre farm. So I'd have to do all that on the front end, which is why it's important to talk and understand. Um,
Land Loss, Development Pressure, And Advocacy
SPEAKER_03and a lot of people are hesitant to enroll in this because they feel like they're giving up their land. You know, I don't they still own the land, they're still going to pay taxes, but it just can't be developed. And when they sell the development rights off, you know, that that drives power line easements away, gas line easements, you know, all of these things avoid conservation easement land like the plague because it's very difficult to get approved to go across land that's in that program. It's a really good program, it's really catching on. I think Johnson County enrolled six or seven farms last year, and that's through the Soil and Water Offices, who's kind of running that program for us. Um basically they did as many applications as they had manpower to do. And I think they're hiring a couple of people maybe to try to try to increase that, but they're getting a lot of interest. Um, but you know, it really is a generational commitment. Even on the 20-year term, you're you know, you're committing that, hey, you're gonna have to farm this land where somebody else is because I don't think there's really a good way out of it once you get that money, you know, once you enroll and receive payment.
SPEAKER_02It's a one-time payment.
SPEAKER_03Um I think they can do it, you know, and like an annuity every year. They can break it up or they can do it all up front. I'm not sure that there's probably I'm sure there's a payment rate difference. Um, but I mean I I have friends that have bought farms and enrolled them in this and use that money to help pay for them. Oh, you know, in other parts of the state. So, you know, there's that side of it too. It might give somebody a way to get in and and have uh you know opportunity. Um there's also something I just learned about myself, and I can't believe I didn't know about this. I think it's been around since the early 2000s, maybe 2010, called the Wildlife Conservation Land Program, which is very similar but for wildlife habitat. And I think it's got a little larger acre requirements, maybe 20 acres. But then if you just, you know, and it some of it can be working land, it can be habitat, it could be a species, um, but it's actually it's not exactly like present use value. It's got to be different enough to satisfy the Department of Revenue, but it's a very similar type program where maybe you don't want to farm, maybe you like to hunt or just bird watch or whatever, but you want your land to stay open land. That's another program that's available to look at that I I just literally learned about last week, and I don't know how I haven't ever heard about this, but uh I just sat down at a table to eat dinner with some guys at a conference and um we got to talking, and I didn't know I didn't know anything about it, and he was telling me all about it. So that's another option, you know, for folks that want to maintain land and not necessarily farm it, but have deferred tax value.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Is the funding there? I mean, is there more funding than people that want to put their land in, or is it people I would say historically, yes.
SPEAKER_03There's been more. I think that's tightening up quite a bit. I think as interest grows and pressure grows and people see what's happening, they don't like it, they're they're using more and more of that money. Um, you know, there's always going to be a need. Uh, but at the same time, you've got to have people willing to enroll. I think right now we're kind of on the flip side. There's not enough money probably to go around to all the people that want to enroll. Just a few years ago, they had money left, I think, in that fund every year. So, you know, as as we go forward in this, I probably I anticipate that program becoming more popular and more utilized as land becomes scarcer, especially you know, if if the ag economy could turn around, the best way to preserve farmland is to have profitable farms. And then you you know, I have an option. If I wanted to buy a piece of land, I still couldn't pay thirty to fifty thousand dollars an acre, but at least I could keep what I have, maybe.
SPEAKER_02Yep, for sure.
SPEAKER_01With the I mean it's inevitable, it's happened, it's still happening, um the urbanization of you know, especially North Carolina, how do we be good neighbors as as farmers?
SPEAKER_03You know, that's that's a tough one, and that's you know that we're right in the middle of rewriting our UDO, as I said, and that's that's a big discussion. How do we reduce conflict? And you know, some of some of these um developers don't think a conflict exists, but conflict doesn't necessarily have to be screaming and shouting, you know, it could be somebody's pile behind their shed extending out in my field where my road needs to run, or it could be you know, spray drift killing their grass on the edge of their field. Yeah, I don't know. You know, and I think I think it goes back to communication and education. What do you do when you get behind a tractor on the road? You know, it's like what do you do when you meet a school bus? We learned that in driver's ed. But I don't remember being taught maybe it's been a it's been a minute since I was in driver's ed, but just teaching people when you encounter a big piece of equipment, what do you do? Um, you know, before they run into the back of it or hit them and hurt somebody. I mean, every year we see stories in eastern North Carolina of tractors getting ran into and people getting hurt or or even killed, and um you know, that's part of it's distraction, and part of it's just people have never encountered this. They've never lived in a farming community and don't know what that entails. Um you know, a lot of it is just people don't realize what's involved in modern agriculture. It's the best kept secret in the world, how less than 2% of the population feeds 100%. Um, you know, and I'd argue even more than 100% with food waste that we have, but it's um, you know, we don't you hear I hate the cliche, but I'm gonna use it. We we don't tell our stories enough to the right people that want to hear it. Um and and that's goes back to a big reason why I feel the the need to be as involved as I am. Um it's just exposing as many people as I can to what I do and what you know they enjoy the fruits of our labor from that really have no clue uh what goes on to get that food to the grocery store and to their table.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, I I really
Present Use Value And Tax Policy
SPEAKER_01appreciate your your focus on communication and and not just within you know, farmer to the general public, but also farmer to farmer and um just and within the generations and even within your own farm family of hey, we need to talk about these things so that we know how to plan. Um, you know, communication is huge.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it is, and it and it's not always easy either. I mean, sometimes talking to farmers can be a lot harder than talking to the the soccer moms or community people at the basketball game or whatever, but it's all important. You know, farmers are pretty stubborn and set in their ways where they wouldn't continue to farm. And um, then you add the layer of family on top of that, it can get even more dicey um because you're still gonna see them at church and eat supper with them, you know, or whatever at Christmas and Thanksgiving. Or um, you know, it just communication is very important.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. Let's talk about uh generational transfer a little bit, Brandon. I know you're um have been thinking about this. I think you and I, I tell you, we really got a lot in common. We're kind of in that same, I farm with my uncle, my dad. I think we're in that same uh generation, if you will. Um but uh you know that's a tough conversation to have. Um and it's hard to bring everybody to the table and communicate uh clearly and you know things are apt to change, just like with our conservation easily. I mean, nobody knows what the future holds, so we're scared to do stuff like that. So and I think with generational transfer, that same principle applies, but it's been tough conversations.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for sure. And and I mean it's even harder when you know I have a sister and I have three cousins that none of them are involved in the operation, you know, in my generation, other I'm the only one. So that you know, that adds another layer of expectation and what's fair and what's what's equitable and what's equal. And you know, those are three entirely different things.
SPEAKER_04For sure.
SPEAKER_03Just balance. I mean, you know, some of them may not even want any involvement, they may not want any land, and I don't know, and without having those conversations, and we're we're kind of starting down that road now, and um it's kind of two steps forward, one step back, or maybe one step forward, two steps back. I don't know which one it is. Yeah, we're trying, you know, we're we're staggering along as best we can, but it is, you know, and every question brings up three more questions of what about this, and um you know, ultimately I think it's just figuring out what what you want to do and then figuring out the best vehicle to do it. And sometimes people don't know what they want, and that's you know, that's the big uh you know, just like just like rebuilding that axle in the shop. If I know what I want to do, then I can do it. But figuring out how and what is the hardest part.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. But it's kind of go for me, it kind of goes back to my faith. Um, you know, I I I've I growing up on the farm was just such a it's such a blessing to me that I you know, I don't even worry about the future sometimes because I had such a wonderful childhood up until this point in my life I've enjoyed every minute of it. Um so I I sometimes I don't worry about it. I'm able to sleep at night and and just knowing things are gonna work out, but I mean at the same time, the planning does need to take place.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because I mean, you know, we're all one heartbeat away from eternity. And if if my dad or uncle didn't wake up tomorrow, or I didn't wake up tomorrow, it would certainly complicate things for our operation, as I'm sure it would for you. And um, you know, we have some contingency plans of how to keep going, but that's not gonna settle it, you know, for forever. And just, you know, having some certainty, you know, I'm getting old enough now, I hate to even use that term, but I need to be thinking about my kids and their future. If they want, you know, they may have an interest in this one day too. What can I what am I doing and what can I do to provide them the same opportunity that I have.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think you're already thinking about it, and the things you're doing are are going to have an impact uh for your kids and my kids as well. So I don't know that they'll return to the farm, but I definitely want to work towards giving them an opportunity to.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and that's me too. I don't know if I don't know if my kids, you know, maybe they'll be lawyers and doctors and support, you know, let me retire, but I I want them to you know do what they want to do, and if this is it, I hope they have an opportunity.
SPEAKER_02So I mean, I guess how can we educate, even as NC Farm families, what can we do to, and I know this podcast is one part of that education process, but uh let people know um about farmland preservation, what they can do, what how it's happening, just a lot about it. Um what can we do to continue that effort?
SPEAKER_03You know, I think it's just it's ultimately just gonna take down to just sure willpower and and grit just trying to reach the people because a lot of people making these decisions probably are not watching podcasts, to be quite frank with you. I know my dad is not a podcaster, he does not listen or watch, you know, and that generation is just different, you know, and and the ways that we communicate and the world runs today don't necessarily reach them. And you know, I drug them both to a farm credit meeting a couple years ago, uh succession planning, and and you know, we left that meeting. Oh, we had workbooks, we're on fire, we're gonna get this straight and figure this out. And I think the workbooks are still on the dash of the truck where they rode home from that meeting two years ago. But we I mean, you know, we started the conversation. Yeah. I think just you know, determining the options and bringing in everybody that's involved. And you know, they may be assuming their kids want one thing and their kids really don't want that. And then, you know, maybe you know, assumptions are you know the the clearer the communication and expectations are at front, I think the happier you'll be with the end result. And some of these are not easy conversations to have, especially when you're talking about hundreds of acres of land and potentially millions of dollars of of real assets. I'm not talking about cash, and but you know, land and equipment and buildings, and um, you know, that's a that's a big number. People that aren't involved in agriculture that see that, oh wow, you this farm's worth two million dollars. Oh my god, I want my piece of that, but they don't see you know several hundred thousand dollars in debt tied to that or more, you know, tied to that land. And you know, I think it's just as scary as it is for farmers to talk about what we do with our family and and our relatives that aren't involved, I think it's important, you know, the the level, hey, this is this is what's going on and this is how we're running, and if you know, if we cut this land in half, I'm not gonna be able to farm anymore. I'm gonna have to do something else.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And in what ways do you feel that farming is like, you know, it is a family business? How is that different from maybe other types of family businesses?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I think it's the land. I think that's what it all comes back to is just the tie to the land with working in the you know the Lord's creation. You know, I don't ever hear about a third generation dentist or you know, a fifth generation accountant. Um and I don't know that it's not that they're proud of what they do, but um I think agriculture
Conservation Easements And Funding
SPEAKER_03is just the tie to the land and the and the production and feeding our families and living, you know, seeing life and death every day. Um and that that raw tenderness that agriculture brings from a seed emerging or a baby pig being born or a calf or whatever, to to the flip side when you harvest a crop and you you know you you reap that gain or you you harvest an animal to feed your family, um, you know, it's it's the circle of life and it's just that this the connection to the land, I think, is the difference. Um you know, people all the time I I tell people, you know, we grow tobacco, which is a very controversial crop in the world. Um, but it is a great motivator. I can't tell you how many accountants and lawyers and doctors I know. Man, I cropped tobacco when I was little, and I promised the Lord if He'd get me off that farm, I would never go back and never I'd make something of myself or whatever. And that and that's great. Um, you know, but at the same time, it takes a certain amount of people to do the work to feed the world and and feed our own families. And um just you know, knowing that I farm where my great-grandfather cut the trees off this land and cleared it and made something out of it, and I'm still making something out of it today, is just I I hate to romanticize it because it is a business. At the end of the day, we have to make money to survive, but you know, it's also a way of life.
SPEAKER_02It means something to you too. I mean, uh same way my granddaddy helped clear some of the land that we farm, and yeah. It may not mean anything to anybody else, but it means something to me, so yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I've picked up roots in my life when we cleared a piece of land. I I remember walking along and throwing the roots on the truck and in the trailer so we could pull the plow. And um, I mean, I guess that you know that sweat equity just ties you to the land. And once that once the dirt gets under your fingernails, it's hard to get it all out.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh me. Man, that's just been a lot of information uh to absorb uh Marissa's. Uh Brendan's got a lot of it stored in his uh in his memory bank too.
SPEAKER_01Yes. It's gotta be time consuming.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it is. It's time consuming. So I yeah, in addition to farming, I do I coach uh my son's basketball team. Um my girls are in gymnastics, I coach their T-ball team, probably gonna end up coaching softball this year, it's their first year in that. Um, my son plays baseball, you know, and and we're involved in the fire department and the church and the school advisory council, all of the boards and commodity groups. And so, yeah, I I do a lot. And I I often when I think about all I do, I really get concerned how do I fix it all, but um yeah, it all matters, and I think you know, I really feel strongly that the change in the world, part of our problem as a society is waiting for somebody to fix the problem. And ninety percent of the problems we face could be fixed right here at home. And so if I'm able to be a positive influence in a 10-year-old kid on my son's basketball team by helping coach two nights a week and on Saturday mornings when we play our games, then you know maybe that maybe that'll help that kid be a positive influence for somebody else, or maybe they're not getting it at home, or you know, if I'm able to advocate for a group at the elementary school that's not getting the attention they deserve, maybe that'll help them have a positive impact in the community. So I really believe you don't have to you don't have to have any title or grandiose elected office to make a difference. And um, you know, I I'm a volunteer firefighter here. We do all kinds of benefits and things like that, and apart from you know the fire service, and I just believe in making where I live a better place. And I think if more people felt like that instead of wanting somebody else to do it for them, a lot of our problems would would go away.
SPEAKER_02100% for sure. Um man, that's awesome, uh Brandon. I I I've I just I think I got so much in common with you, um, and uh it's been a pleasure to talk to you. Give you got a favorite story or anything you want to share with us um about your farming with your uncle and your dad over the years that maybe sticks out um that you can wrap it up with, or yeah, I mean I got I got tons of I could probably write a volume of books.
SPEAKER_03Um some of my favorite memories, so we we would a lot of times we'd be working separate, but especially when I was younger, my grandpa was still living, we would always we would work together a lot. My grandpa was a very small man, he might have weighed 120 pounds, real thin, you know, and but when he spoke, my dad and uncle, I mean, that was it. No matter if they were ready to come to blows fist fighting, he'd say that's enough, or this is what we're gonna do. That was it. That was the end of it, right? So now he's gone. I've kind of stepped into that referee role, but I get a dick out of it more than he used to. So I ask him at least once a day, you know, hey, are y'all brothers or something? Like, y'all, y'all sure are fucking a lot. And uh and you know, we we joke back and forth, but um, you know, every a lot of people ask how it is working with family every day because we are a family farm, and I I tell them every day's a blessing, some when they begin and some when they end. You know, you can take it as you come and and do the best you can. But yeah.
SPEAKER_02Those are good memories. I tell you, I'll I'll cherish the ones that I have and I'm sure you will yours too. Uh just uh it's been an amazing, amazing journey.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Well, Brandon, I appreciate you being on the Raise on the Farm podcast today. We've got um we've got kind of a good little head start into farmland preservation, Brissa, don't you think?
SPEAKER_01Yep, I think that's we covered a lot.
SPEAKER_02And Brandon's really, I mean, he's facing, he's in the he's in the fire up there. I mean, in Johnson County. I'm blessed to be down in Duplin. Uh, you know, I'm not nobody better watch out, Chad.
SPEAKER_0340 goes through Duplin too, and they're coming down, they're coming down.
SPEAKER_02I'm sure they are, but uh still uh I'll I'll learn from you on how to deal with them.
SPEAKER_03Well maybe what not to do.
SPEAKER_02But anyhow, thank you again, Brandon, for uh for being with us today. I appreciate you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate the opportunity. Cool deal.
SPEAKER_02Thanks for spending time with us on Raise on the Farm Podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and follow us on Instagram. And if you got a question or a topic you want us to dig into, let us know. We want to hear from you. Join the conversation.