Welcome Home - A Podcast for Veterans, About Veterans, By Veterans
Welcome Home is a Willing Warriors and the Warrior Retreat at Bull Run project. The program highlights activities at the Warrior Retreat and issues impacting all Veterans. For questions or feedback, please email us at podcast@willingwarriors.org.
Welcome Home - A Podcast for Veterans, About Veterans, By Veterans
From Service to Struggle: Major Amanda Feindt on the Red Hill Water Crisis and Fighting for Military Families' Health
What happens when those sworn to protect our nation become victims of its negligence? This episode features a riveting conversation with Army Major Amanda Feindt, who reflects on her military career and the devastating Red Hill fuel storage leak her family endured in Hawaii. Major Feindt takes us from her post-9/11 inspiration to join the Army, through her various leadership roles, and ultimately to the distressing situation in Hawaii, where a hidden environmental disaster wreaked havoc on military families' health.
We expose the alarming health crisis that unfolded due to contaminated water, revealing the severe illnesses and dismissed warnings that plagued families stationed at the base. The narrative uncovers the unsettling reality of a fuel leak that poisoned the water supply, resulting in fatigue, anxiety, gastrointestinal issues, and skin rashes. Major Feindt shares her emotional journey as she realized the extent of the contamination, shedding light on the significant impact on her family and the broader military community.
The episode critically examines the lack of transparency and accountability in military crises, drawing stark comparisons to the infamous Camp Lejeune incident. We delve into the retaliatory actions faced by Major Feindt as she fought for clean water and better conditions, the institutional cover-ups, and the ongoing legal and activist efforts to shut down the Red Hill facility. Through compelling personal stories and a call for public awareness, we emphasize the importance of collective action to ensure such environmental and health crises do not recur. Join us for an eye-opening discussion on this critical issue affecting our service members and their families.
Good morning. I'm your host, Larry Zilliox, Director of Culinary Services, here at the Warrior Retreat at Bull Run, She was stationed in Hawaii, and she and her family were part of the Red Hill fuel storage leak incident. this week we are joined by Army Major Amanda Feint. She is here to talk about her story. I like to call it a catastrophe. This happened in 2021. I remember reading about Amanda and her family in 2022 in Task and Purpose, and so I'm very thankful that she's here today to tell us about what happened to her family and hundreds of other families like hers, when this unfortunate fuel spill happened in Hawaii and I think our listeners are all very familiar with. If you turn on the TV, you're familiar with the Marine Corps water incident, but this is something that unfortunately, just hasn't got as much publicity as that, and we're here to fix that. So, major welcome to the podcast.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Thank you so much, larry, for having me, and I feel very blessed to be here.
Larry Zilliox:Let's start with just a brief overview of why you joined the Army, what your career was like up until you received your assignment to go to Hawaii, and then we'll get into that and talk a little bit about that. But when did you join?
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Well, let me back up before I tell you when I joined. So 9-11 happened my senior year of high school.
Larry Zilliox:Okay.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:And I don't come from, you know, my folks didn't serve in the military, but my grandparents did and it's been a multigenerational thing, and so we're a huge patriotic family, big Army family. So when I went to college, I went to school on a truck scholarship. You know, there was a booth sitting outside of my college, just out in the quad, and one of them was for ROTC and I was there, you know, running, and the Ranger Challenge team was out there and they needed a girl to compete, you know, to be competitive on the Ranger Challenge team. And so, I don't know, I just I felt, after 9-11 happened, I felt like it was my time to serve, but I didn't really know what that looked like and I knew that I was already going to school on a scholarship. And so ROTC provided me the opportunity to continue to be athletic and to continue to be a leader and learn a little bit more about the Army. And you know, never in a million years did I think that I'd be here still 20 years later. I always said I'd serve in the military until they were done with me or I was done with it. I've loved it. So, yeah, in college I ended up trying ROTC out, I ran and did ROTC, commissioned in 2000, excuse me, 2006. Wow, I'm dating myself 2006.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:And I was a? Um, an air defense officer. I loved it. I uh, you know, I got to travel to so many wonderful new places. I got to experience so many different cultures and be around like a diverse group of people, and those things are things that you know from my hometown. I just wasn't used to and this small town you grew up in. I grew up in Hampton, virginia. Oh, not too small, but it's yeah, medium size will cost Sure Yep.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:And now? Well then, we moved to Smithfield, virginia. But but now?
Larry Zilliox:Hampton, yeah, huge Navy presence.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Hampton huge Navy presence there is, there's an Air Force base, there's a Navy and there is Army.
Larry Zilliox:Very little Army compared to everybody else. Right Big Navy. I'm surprised the Navy didn't scoop you up.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:No, Like I said, we were. Everyone in my family has been in the Army and so I just I don't know if I tried to. If I would have tried to go to the Navy, I'm sure someone would have reeled me in, yeah, locked my heels up, but yeah, I just I have loved, loved, loved being in the military. I've, you know, I commissioned as a second lieutenant, made my way through the ranks and have served in various leadership positions, from being a platoon leader Then I did a branch transfer to the Adjutant General Corps, where I do predominantly human resources. But I was as soon as I did that branch transfer I went to Fort Bragg and I served in the 82nd deployed with them.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:When I got back I had the unique experience to command as a headquarters commander for the 82nd Cab, a combat aviation brigade, which was such a really awesome experience. And from there I was recruited to be an ROTC instructor here in Virginia at George Mason University. I did that for three years and so that was just such a rejuvenating and amazing sort of professional knee and it was after a deployment and so for me it was just really rejuvenating. It really had come full circle, because I did ROTC in college and it was the time of my life that I needed, after a deployment, to, you know, be around these cadets who were super motivated and again came full circle. You know they were inspired by me, but I was certainly inspired by them, just their motivation and how passionate they were to serve in a time when conflict was still happening, downrange range and yeah.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:So from there I went and worked as a brigade S1, so at the brigade level and then as a G1 in the space community when space was just becoming well, now we've got a whole new branch of service space but I worked for Space and Missile Defense Command and then and during that time I got the unique opportunity to either go to Germany or go to Hawaii, and I had never traveled to Hawaii for leisure. It's something that I'd always kind of held off on doing because, you know, I thought this would be the ultimate location, especially to retire at, and so and that's not really a tough call.
Larry Zilliox:No, germany is nice.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Well, it is yeah To go, but Hawaii, yeah, yeah, Well it is yeah, hawaii, yeah, yeah.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Well, I'll let you in on a little secret Like this is kind of silly, but when I got married, my last name became Feint, and it is German and if you look it up it translates to enemy, and I just didn't think that we could be well-received in Germany with a last name like that. Oh, my goodness. So, as if you know, choosing Hawaii or Germany was a really tough decision. Maybe that's still the deal, I don't know. Went to Hawaii Again just at that point.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:I think I'd been in the service for about 16 years and we were super motivated and super excited to be there. We were living the dream, which really were. We had lived off base initially and about a year or so after us being there Hawaii is extremely expensive we had been on the housing waiting list for quite some time we got offered this amazing house on historic Fort Island and I don't know, larry, I think we discussed this, but have you been to Hawaii? Yeah, so we got offered this amazing historic home that had survived the attack on Pearl Harbor, on Fort Island, and we said we didn't think twice. We said, heck, yes.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah, now that's where you billeted. That's the house they gave you. Did you work on Ford Island, or where were you working at the time?
Maj. Amanda Feindt:So I worked for Special Operations Command Pacific, and we were headquartered at Camp Smith, so it's a Marine Corps base that shares a building with Indo-Pacific Command, which is the largest combatant command in the military.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah, okay so, and two children, and they went to the Ford Island Daycare Center.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:They did, yeah, and quickly, about my kids. So Patrick and I are, we're older parents, you know, in our 40s now. Both of us and I really struggled to get pregnant when I got back from Afghanistan. In fact we couldn't and I say all that to say, not to proclaim to be a parent who loves my children more than anyone else, but we fought really hard to have our kids, both through infertility treatments, and we lost a baby, unfortunately, in between, and so we fought really hard to have kids and we brought two perfect, wonderful, healthy children to Hawaii, by the grace of God, perfect, wonderful, healthy children to Hawaii, by the grace of God.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:And you know, I've often wondered if my deployment, my toxic exposure downrange, is much like many women who go downrange and they struggle to get pregnant.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Infertility is obviously a big issue among women in the military, and so I've often wondered if my deployment had anything to do with my infertility, because both my husband and I we both had unexplained infertility To sort of get past that moment and that chapter in her life and to bring healthy kids to Hawaii in paradise, and, you know, fulfill our dream of raising our kids by the ocean, which is, you know, patrick and I both did that growing up.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:We felt really blessed and to I'm sorry for getting emotional, but to you know to be there and to have them when you live on base and when you have your children at an on-base daycare facility, there's almost like an extra sense of security, if you will. There's another layer of that where you feel like not only physically they're protected, right being on a secure base, but also you're surrounded by your tribe Exactly your people, your family, yeah, your tribe, exactly your people, your family, those who become your family when your actual family can't be there for you. And especially in Hawaii, when you're so far away from everyone the military, the folks who care for your children. There's just an extra layer of trust there and I think that's why and we'll get into it but I think that's why the sense of betrayal, the moral injury of it all it cuts so deep for us, because there was a lot of trust.
Larry Zilliox:Sure? Well, there always is when you're in the military, because you follow orders and you just assume that the people in command above you yes, I understand they have to give you orders, but they're looking out for you and that's the way it should be. And officers should always be looking out for NCOs and enlisted. They're in their care. It's a huge responsibility. On Hawaii in 2020, it just all fell apart, and it became pretty obvious to me in reading all about this catastrophe. There were people in the chain of command that just weren't taking care of the troops and those under them that they were responsible for.
Larry Zilliox:So take us back to 2020. And not only you, but a large number of people on the installation begin to report that there's a problem with the water. It's got a sheen to it, it's got a smell to it, it tastes terrible, it's not right. And you and others bring it to the attention of command, and what you get back is just amazing. No, it's okay, it's all right, we're drinking it, so don't worry. No, it's okay, it's all right, we're drinking it, so don't worry. Just go about your day. And then people start to get sick, and then your family starts to get sick. So what happens then?
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Well, I want to circle back one more time, or go back a little bit further than November of 2021. So we got offered that house in April of 2021. We had to move ourselves. So we slowly kind of moved in. So we were kind of in that house at the beginning of May.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:One thing we didn't know is that there was a massive fuel leak that actually caused this November spill to happen. 20,000 gallons of fuel leaked on May 5th, I believe, of 2021. And guess what? They didn't tell us about it. None of us knew about it. And you know, had we known? I didn't even know what Red Hill was, to be completely honest. Sure, you know, typically when you travel to other countries, you get a country brief. You know sort of what you're walking in about, the lay of the land and the people and the assets that we have there and all of that. I had no idea what Red Hill was before I came to Hawaii, much less before I moved into on-base housing that was on the Navy's drinking water system that had been compromised. If you go back and look at the history had been compromised by this asset before for decades. I had no idea, so I would have never made the conscious decision to move my family into this home. Had I known, but there was a spill.
Larry Zilliox:There's no reason for you to know, or anybody. It's not part of your job, right? And it's got to be one of the least interesting parts of the installation, right? So, yes, I can completely understand why people would just not be at all informed about it or care about it one bit. The other thing that I think is important for people to understand is the age of the system. This is an installation that's been around since World War II and this is an ongoing problem that, had you been aware of, you wouldn't have moved on base. It would have been better to spend the extra money and stay off base, where everything was safe, absolutely yeah.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:So this still happened in May. We had no idea. But you know I told you before we had been living in Hawaii for about a year in the middle of COVID and never had COVID. We were a perfectly healthy family for that first year After May. You could go back and don't take my word for it. You know you could go back and look at my medical records. We just became really sick. My son at the time when we moved in, you know he was 13 months old. He took his first steps in that home in May. He was a perfectly healthy child. He started developing a cough almost immediately. We were, you know, just getting sick all the time. We should buy stock in COVID tests. You know like how many we took. We never had COVID and you know just fatigue, how many we took.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:We never had COVID and you know just, fatigue, anxiety started to set in, couldn't sleep, stomach issues. I didn't even know what vestibular dysfunction were, but we were having, like vertigo, headaches, particularly with my husband, a lot of GI issues, if I didn't say that, skin issues. You know I was. We were living on base, my kids were going to school or daycare on base and I was, you know, working on the base and during my lunch breaks I would go and I was, you know, a swimmer and I ran track, but I would spend my lunch break swimming at the Camp Smith outdoor pool and I was starting to have skin issues Again. We just never put two and two together. My son started almost immediately developing this rash. This is all before the massive November spill that made us all like super sick. There was no denying it.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:But, this is all. This is all. After we moved into the house, and after that May spill is when we started getting sick, my son started developing this rash that was from his waist down. Now, saying this out loud to you now, for everything we've lived with, you know I live with a lot of mom guilt about this. But again, like you had said, why would you like, why would you think about it, right? So we kept taking him to his pediatrician and we'd get all these topical things for his rashes. You know we were treated for everything from diaper rash to eczema. You know, none of us had ever had eczema before.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:We're living in Hawaii, it's not like it's a dry climate or anything, but you know we tried everything and we were diligent about getting our kids to the doctor. So when things weren't working, I kind of took things in my own hands as a mother and I said my son is just like you know, he's really struggling. And I went and I bought him some of you know baby bath soak and I just kept soaking him in the water and you know you've met my son like he's just as sweet as he can be, and I realized now that I was making it worse. You know it wasn't eczema. My son was being burned by the water and the reason I know that is because the ration covers his whole body.
Larry Zilliox:Right only when he was sitting in it.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Yeah, and you're not at his age. He's not taking a shower yet. I'm submerging him in the bathtub. You know he's just learning to walk, and so anyways, fast forward.
Larry Zilliox:We were getting sick all through the summer, november happened and in theory is that a slow leak is developing. That turned into a gusher when everybody got really sick.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:That is the belief that they tried to clean up the spill in May and that they didn't get to all of it and some of it compromised the drinking water system then and then the November spill. What happened specifically with that is that there was a cart that actually hit a sinking pipe it was an AFFF, a firefighting system that a cart hit underground and that pipe was hanging and it was not supposed to be anything in there and turns out it was all of that fuel that they couldn't account for and water that they ended up hitting and all of that leaked for over 30 hours before for and water that they end up hitting it and all of that leaked for over 30 hours before they were able to get a hold of it. And that still happened on November 20th. You know my folks who were also here at the retreat with us. They came to visit. They're from Virginia. They came to visit and immediately my daughter's birthday is on the 26th.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:I remember 26th of November, and I remember you know they were there trying to celebrate my daughter's birthday too and my mom was just deathly ill, like she couldn't stay out the toilet, she coming out both ends, you know. I think my mom lost about 12 pounds because she was so sick. My dad got sick. People were thousands of people in that drinking water system were cooking their Thanksgiving meal, you know, in contaminated water meal. You know, in contaminated water. Thousands of people over the course of that next, you know, two or three weeks, ended up at Tripler, at Tripler Army Medical Center, the main hospital there, just as sick as could be and it didn't spare anyone on the drinking water system. So there are several main bases there. There is, you know, the big joint base which is Pearl Harbor, hickam, which is an Air Force and Navy base. But, like I said, I was at Camp Smith, you know the big joint base which is Pearl Harbor, Hickam, which is an Air Force and Navy base.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:But, like I said, I was at Camp Smith, you know, army girl living on a Navy base, working on a Marine Corps base, you know. So the Marine Corps base was impacted. There were several bases that were impacted but there were, you know, over. You know, I think it's like 25 or so housing neighborhoods both on and off base that were part of the Navy's drinking water system and so the way gravity and the system sort of flowed, certain neighborhoods were impacted. First we were on the west side of that system, so we actually didn't end up in the hospital until December 11th. Patrick and Tripp did, and then my daughter Palmer and I ended up on December 13th, and then, I mean, we were, we were so sick, and then on the 13th we ended up evacuated from our home. For three months Our house was, you know, we couldn't live in it. We were shuffled between seven different hotels.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Our lives have never been the same since at this point, you know, it's been over two years or so and we have gone to over 500 medical appointments. The kids have been put under nine times for upper and lower GI scopes, you know, permanent respiratory issues, so bronchial scrope, bronchial lavage. My husband's had three GI surgeries. My career I never thought I'd end my career this way but it's ending, you know, in a med board. I'm in the med board process now and I am I'm still on active duty, but I have been taken out of my day job and I've been put in the soldier recovery unit, which used to be the old wounded warrior battalion. I am my job status, what's on my what's on my record? Right now my job title is patient, and so that is. My job is to seek medical care.
Larry Zilliox:And when we're talking about fuel, are we talking about JP4? Jp5. Jp5. Okay, so Navy fuel for ships.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Correct. Yeah, I think that's important to note. So this was a Navy asset. Yeah.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:And with Camp Lejeune it was JP8. And they had, you know, the issue with the laundromat, but they also had fuel that was discovered years later. And you did mention Camp Lejeune at the start of this podcast and you know Camp Lejeune was happening when I was a small child and you know, to my own ignorance, I was not familiar with Camp Lejeune until our water crisis happened. You know it's interesting timing right. This is one of those history has repeated itself situations.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:I've been a very outspoken advocate, obviously, about this water crisis and because of that I have been introduced and folks have reached out to me from other water crises.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:The USS Nimitz had an issue.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:The USS Boxer, you know, before us, had an issue with fuel leaking into their water system and certainly Camp Lejeune.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:And, looking at the documents, I visited with a lot of those.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:I mean I took a trip out to Camp Lejeune and was given a tour of the base and the housing and went to a Camp Lejeune event and met a lot of those advocates and I've reviewed a lot of their documents, the things that came from the Navy and the Marine Corps during their crisis and over the years and it is like it's like a mirror image, the verbiage, the medical gaslighting, the downplaying the significance of what happened is exactly what has happened at Red Hill and it's so disheartening to me but, as you can imagine, it's really disheartening for those folks who have been fighting for their families for over 30 years, for the folks who have gone to Congress so many times and who have tried to fight for accountability and justice, who have buried their children.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:God rest their souls. You can only imagine how upset they are, that the time and effort that they have spent to prevent something like this from ever happening again, to see this happen at Red Hill. They've been extremely upset. They've also been so wonderful to our community and have opened their arms to us and have been a huge, huge support to us, and we're really grateful for that.
Larry Zilliox:As you mentioned, the various housing areas on the base and off the base that were affected. It was the off the base housing that involved the Hawaii Department of Environmental Services and they came out in November and said no drinking, don't drink this. But yet the Navy was saying no, it's okay, and it's just a complete opposite of what the Department of Environmental Services for the state was saying, which I find extraordinary. I would think that at some point they've got to say, oh, I guess the gig is up, we need to stand up and own this. But apparently that wasn't the point in time where they cowboyed up and took responsibility. Can you recall a point in time or something that pushed them to finally say yes, we have a problem. And was it just the overload? The patient overload a tripler, or what do you recall?
Maj. Amanda Feindt:I mean, you mentioned it and I said I'll get back to that, but I didn't. You're exactly right. The Hawaii Department of Health, you know the military had an obligation to report after the 2014 leak. You know, before that the Navy kind of policed themselves and they maintained themselves and they didn't really have an obligation to report to folks outside the military. But the White Department of Health and the EPA had been very involved since the 2014 spill many, many years ago. And they did.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:If you go back and look at records, the Navy did report the May 2021 spill to the White Department of Health. The Navy did report the November 20, 2021 spill to the Department of Health and immediately people after the November 20 spill were, you know, smelling. Their houses smell like a gas station. Like you mentioned, there was a sheen, visible sheen on the water. You know it was hard to breathe in folks' homes. Not only were the Navy the Navy getting these calls, the White Department of Health was getting these calls. Sure, and I think it's important to mention that there are civilians who live in these houses. So the folks who were impacted were predominantly military families. But what happened is, you know, the military came in by force decades ago and secured a lot of the land and over the years they've given some of that land back. However, the utilities have still been supplied by the Navy. So there's one in particular out at Iroquois Point, kapalina Beach Homes. Still. There are some military families that live there, but that piece of property, if you will, has been given back to the people of Hawaii and it is managed by, you know, civilians.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:However, they still get their drinking water from the Navy and you know they were never notified at the beginning. They had no idea. I had no idea that we were in the Navy drinking water system. The emails that we were getting from the base were saying you know, joint Base, pearl Harbor, hickam and, like a few other neighborhoods, fort Island was not mentioned. Camp Smith at the time wasn't mentioned. That list continued to grow from the Navy, but the initial comments from them or the initial warning never said hey, these are all the housing neighborhoods, these are all the neighborhoods that are on the drinking water system and you should be vigilant with your water because this fuel has impacted the sole clean water aquifer and you all are on this drinking water system. So be on alert, be vigilant. We were never given the opportunity.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:And then, even after it happened and folks from certain neighborhoods started to report, the Navy still didn't say that. And you mentioned the Hawaii Department of Health did issue a warning for all drinking water system users, but not everyone knew where their water was coming from. Because if you're living off base, you don't think, no, you're. You know, if you're out in Kapalina living in a civilian, you're living amongst civilians and you have a civilian landlord like you, don't think twice about that. Yes, it used to be old Navy housing, but that's just not something you think of.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:So the point I'm trying to make with this long answer that I'm giving you is that the Hawaii Department of Health did issue an advisory, but you know who didn't tell us about that is the Navy. Everything that the Navy was saying was being pushed through email, they were having these town halls and everything was. You know, my staff and I are still drinking the water, the water's safe, but they never said and oh, by the way, the Hawaii Department of Health has issued an advisory for all drinking water system users and your neighborhood is on that drinking water system, so we just had no idea, mm-hmm when they said that they were still drinking the water and it was safe.
Larry Zilliox:Did you believe?
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Absolutely.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:I mean I told you before, you know I've been a commander right and so you are, when you were put in those positions of authority and increased responsibility you assume risk, you assume the lot, you know the safety and wellbeing of those who serve under you and those that you work with, and I know the responsibility that comes with that because I've been in that position and I have always and I've never been in a situation before where that trust has been compromised.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:And so, yeah, when I'm being told we're still drinking it, I am just like we're still drinking and I'm still going to work. And you know there are folks who are getting sick and I'm like man, that is terrible, how can we support them? But you know, like on the other side, thank God that's not my family and turns out we could have been more vigilant. We probably should have moved out a lot sooner and we probably should have stopped drinking the water a lot sooner than we did, because I don't think we'd be in this position had we had the warning and had we had the knowledge from the very beginning.
Larry Zilliox:So now the illnesses begin to take place, you're hospitalized. Begin to take place, you're hospitalized, there's a lot of tests and things, and you ask for some records for the kids mostly but all four of you and the Navy says no, you can't have them. File a FOIA request, which in a previous life I filed a lot of FOIA requests. So I wasted a lot of time in my life filing FOIA requests because they're useless. The backlog is just ridiculous. What you end up getting is mostly redacted and it's a very little use. And then to signal to you that don't even bother to file a FOIA request because there's no way you're getting the records, because we're going to claim that this is a national security issue, which means a FOIA is useless. The only way you got a half a chance is you're going to have to pay a lawyer to sue us. And what did you think when you heard that?
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Everything changed for me at that moment. So the gentleman who told me about that and I think you're referencing from the task and purpose article is I had met with the chief of staff of Joint Base Pearl Harbor, hiccup. You know, at that point, after my family had been poisoned, everything changed. I mean I went into full mama bear mode. I was still a major fight, but I was a major mom at that point, and not only for my kids, and I think I told you earlier, you know, we're older parents. So when I'm dropping my one and three year off, one and four off at the child care facility, the parents of one and four year olds in the military, they're significantly younger.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:You know I could probably be some of their parents right, and I thought to myself I've been a junior soldier and I didn't have a voice then. I didn't know my rights or I didn't know my resources and I felt a huge responsibility to not only speak up for my kids and get some answers, but my kids were going to the largest daycare facility on that drinking water system, 250 plus kids, and all of the director had no, she had no answers for us, none. And so I went knocking, utilizing, you know the open door policy and sat in a room with people who far outrank me and I just said, hey, I'd love, you know, to be able to have a candid conversation with you. As Mandy Fine, a lot of times I brought my husband with me because you know.
Larry Zilliox:And he's a civilian.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:My husband is a civilian, so you may be able to tell me to stand down, but when we're talking about our kids, it's not likely that I will stand down. However, if we come to that position, here's my civilian husband and he will not stand down for you, especially for our children. And so there were a lot of uncomfortable positions that we were put in, and I'm grateful that those senior leaders did meet with us off the bat. But I had met with the chief of staff and some other individuals, with your senior folks in the NWR and daycare facilities, and I said our kids are not getting clean water and these parents don't have a clue what's going on. And we're talking about innocent children and civilians. We're not talking about green suitors. These kids are not volunteer for this. They did not take an oath, they did not sign up for inherent risk. We owe it to these daycare providers and these children to give them access to clean water.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Not only that, but when I was in the hospital with my children after we had been exposed, I remember an ER physician saying well, major Feint, you know, that bottle that I had for my son was a, you know, a personal. This is another thing. Like I feel like I'm Erin Brockovich in my way through a water crisis. I didn't know about, you know, certain plastics and what holds on to contamination. I mean, I had no idea. But we told them, hey, we stopped drinking the water on this date. Well, he said, major Fein, what about that baby bottle that you have for your son, trip Like? Is that a new bottle? I said, no, clean, you know water. And a previously contaminated or a cup that you've washed with contaminated water for Lord knows how long, doesn't equal clean water anymore. And so I fought with that chief of staff and with senior directors, with the daycare facilities, to get all daycare CDCs replenished, like we need to replace all person use plastics. Because my 13 month old does not have the vocabulary to say hey, miss Sam, that teething tool that I'm putting in my mouth, or these cups that you're using, or the things that you're using to cook their meals, it tastes like jet fuel. The kids just don't know that and the teachers don't have, they don't get, there's not enough of them, they don't get paid enough to be sniffing toys and tasting them to see if they taste like fuel. So we it's a drop in the bucket at this point to be able to replace these things.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:So, going back to the FOIA stuff, on a Friday December 10th I believe it was I demanded to speak with these senior level folks. We talked about the daycare replacing all that. Another thing we said is I want my home tested. I want the test results from my home and I want the test results from the Ford Island CDC. Oh, it's too easy.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Made a bunch of promises when I'm sitting there in front of their faces. We're going to. This is going to happen. We're going to make sure it happens Before I go to bed. It's going to happen. Over the weekend we end up in the hospital, my husband and son, and then on that Monday, the I personally ended up and so did my daughter, and I called the same gentleman who made all those promises to me and I said I want the test results from my home. I know that they were at my house on the 10th and I want the test results from the CDC. The director has told me on the days that y'all spent out to test, I want them and he and the deputy commander, colonel Staples he was an Air Force officer Michael Staples said Major Feint, you can file a four-year request for those test results, just like anyone else can, and everything changed for me.
Larry Zilliox:You know, I felt like that was a very—. That's when the stone wall went up.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Yeah, yeah, that's when I knew I was part of a massive cover-up. That's when the institutional betrayal set in. That is when my entire views of the military and the years that I had served and, you know, risking my life for the country and all of that, you know, just like that, everything changed. You can file a FOIA request for the water test results in your own home and for the daycare facility where your children are, you know, 10 hours a day while you're working. File a FOIA request. I wouldn't get the results from those for years. I'll tell you this. And I say that because I know that. And here's why Because after that day, after December 13th, after that conversation with the Joint Base, their senior leadership, I became very outspoken and I did go to the media and I did, you know, file congressional complaints and I did seek counsel and I did, you know, involve folks because I just felt like, anywhere I turned, you know, I was getting the Heisman.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:No one wanted to talk to me anymore and I received a lot of retaliation. I went from being in really great standing with my unit you know, coming up for my lieutenant colonel board doing a really great job in my unit to being grossly retaliated against, not only from my own unit, which was really hurtful, but from members you know in the Navy, an organization I'd never served, so I wasn't familiar with how those folks were. The retaliation was just awful, hostile work environment. I felt very I mean all while, by the way, we're living in hotel rooms. We never went back to our house after the hospital, like we were living in hotel rooms. We were in and out of doctors. We were so sick I was not sleeping. I was staying up at night. You know watching my kids sleep, praying to God that they would wake up the next morning, because I was terrified. I didn't have any test results at that point. I didn't know what my kids had ingested.
Larry Zilliox:Well, the test results. The answer for the test results is very simple they were bad. If they were good, they would have handed them over in a second Right.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:But the minute they say, oh, 504 or national security or whatever, you know they're really bad because they don't want to give them up. An error happened, A human error, something happened, we now. People were harmed. Those are the facts. Something happened, people were harmed and now we, this elite organization, this family oriented the motto that says people are for politics and people are our greatest asset. Now's the time that we put our money where our mouth is and we take care of our people. That didn't happen.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:And further, if you had the intestinal fortitude to speak out and demand answers, not only for your family but your brothers and sisters in arms, you were then retaliated against, and I wasn't the only one. I ended up having to file for Department of Defense whistleblower protection. I filed that complaint in February of 2022. And as I sit here across from you, larry, today, over two years later, my complaint has still not been adjudicated. I have been passed over promotion to lieutenant colonel twice, I have had my security clearance threatened, my TSSCI threatened. I have, you know, launched several complaints and I don't have an answer and adjudication for any of that. And all the while, the people who are responsible for this crisis, the people who are responsible for the retaliation. They have either been promoted or been able to retire with their careers intact, no less retire with awards for how they handled.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:I mean I'm sure you read that in the task and purpose article the base commander, captain Spitzer, the guy that told everyone hey, the water's safe, we're all still drinking it, that guy left with, I think, a legion of merit the bullets in there about how he handled the water crisis and was able to retire with his career intact. Admiral Poparo, who was the Pacific Fleet commander right, senior Navy guy on island. He's the one that did the interview with Nora Roberts I think that's her name, right, nora? Anyways, about the state of the Navy just recently on 60 Minutes. And that's him. He was nominated by Secretary Austin this year for the Chief of Naval Operations, the most senior Navy position. Now, that was not in, like, I can't believe it, but President Biden did not accept that but and so he picked the first, you know, female at CNOM. But I guess where Admiral Paparo serves now. He was not asked to leave the Navy. He was protected from appearing in court. He didn't have to testify in court during trial. You know where Admiral Paparo sits today. He's the commander of Indo-Pacific Command Again, the largest combatant command in the military.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Well, it has been, just you know like. Here I am over two years later just waiting to see like does the military agree? I was retaliated against. Can we talk about those promotions? The fact that I left on a compassionate reassignment without you know, for the first time in my entire career, without a PCS award. You know, no fault of my own, why I left the unit. My family was extremely ill. No award, no farewell, no goodbye.
Larry Zilliox:What recourse does your husband have as a civilian?
Maj. Amanda Feindt:So well we went to court. The way that that whole thing worked out is which was another whole like just stressful thing. We'd obviously never been in at that point, been involved with the court system, certainly never a lawsuit. But the reason I've gone to Congress so many times is that there is nothing in the law. There is, there is no, there's not a piece of legislation that says you were poisoned by the government, you were poisoned by the military on American soil. And we've got you. We've got you covered. We've got your medical, we've got your medical testing, we've got your medical monitoring. We're going to take care of you. There's nothing Now for me. I can go through the VA process and we'll you know. But look how long that took. Camp Legend took them over 30 years. And what's wild is the PACT Act was signed right around the time that Red Hill happened and that just gives the folks of Camp Lejeune an opportunity to file suit. That doesn't mean that I mean the Lord knows when they'll see a pretty much any restitution for every suit filed.
Larry Zilliox:And I recently had a guest from the VFW, who we talked about that the federal court down in that jurisdiction is starting to get on the Navy and the Marine Corps and say just settle these things, for goodness sake. You're wasting the court's time with fighting every one of them and hopefully there'll be some movement on that. Where do things on the island stand now?
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Well, we fought really hard, we made a lot of noise. Something interesting that happened that was pretty historic is that you know the people of Hawaii, especially Native Hawaiians. There is some animosity right with the military. They don't, they are not very receptive of military folks. Now, for the economy, there is a benefit, right Like we provide a lot to the island when it comes to that, but as far as us being there taking over their land, not well received, very respectful of that.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:But for the first time in probably history, the people of Hawaii and military families locked arms, stood in solidarity and said no more, you don't poison your own people and not take care of them, the people who were given us clean water, and still to this day. Do you think it's the military? No, it is the people of Hawaii. It is, you know, nonprofit organizations, the people of Hawaii who are taking care of military families, which is unheard of. And likewise we are saying care of military families, which is unheard of. And likewise we are saying no more.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Water is Hawaii's most precious resource. You have poisoned the sole clean water aquifer, not just for the Navy drinking water system but for the entire island of Oahu. And so there were many of congressional trips, there were many of meetings with congressional leaders, there were many rallies, there were many protests. There were many protests. There were, you know, just a lot of noise and Secretary Alston made the decision in the spring of 2022 to say once and for all we are going to shut down Red Hill. And today Red Hill is in the process of being shut down. So the tanks have been drained and phase one of that has happened. That concluded in the fall of excuse me, I think it just ended like in January. So it started in the fall, just ended in January. Now we're in phase two, which is when they're venting the tanks to get out the sludge and the most toxic part that has kind of lived in there for decades.
Larry Zilliox:Yep, it'll be interesting to see what they do with that, where that will go. Yeah, I hope for the sake of the people of Hawaii, whatever is in there and gets taken out doesn't get left somewhere on that island. They don't deserve that. My guess is it'll probably end up in a hole in New Mexico somewhere. Well, at least there's some movement to rectify things. And between all the pressure that you and the families have brought to force the military into action and the congressional Well, and the lawsuit yeah, Lawsuit it's been.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:You know it's not a major fine thing. It has been a collective effort from military families military, you know, active duty and spouses and the people of Hawaii and you know the Oahu Water Protectors and the Sierra Club and people who have been fighting this Board of Water Supply there in Honolulu, who have been fighting this for decades, and we just built some momentum and we all stood together in solidarity and that was like the big, the monumental thing. And then there was the congressional stuff and then I guess the last layer would be, yeah, the lawsuit. I mean there are several lawyers who have taken this on. You know our legal team, just Well Law, has taken on over 7,500 clients who have filed suit. You know there are many of us who, for years, who have tried to file suit and, because of the Ferris doctrine, have not been able to. But there are a group of activity service members who have filed suit for Red Hill as well. The first lawsuit is in the fight name is in my husband and my children's name.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:We were part of that case. We went to trial in May. That was a very interesting I mean. This has been two years in the making. It was a very interesting experience. It was extremely emotional.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:We had met so many military families but we'd all known each other virtually, because a lot of us received compassionate reassignments. We were all over the world at that point, different countries and different states, and we met virtually through FaceTime and all the things. The first time we met, ironically, was at the airport, you know, heading into trial, which was just really bizarre. But we've become this family right. We've gotten through this crisis together because we've all experienced a lot of the same symptoms and the same heartache and the same retaliation, and you know that and the solidarity with the people of Hawaii have been like the two good things that have come out of this, I think.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:But sitting in that trial and listening to the DOJ and listening to the Navy and I don't know, I think I had this false hope, if you will, that we'd get to court and they would just kind of fall on their sword and just be remorseful and whatever it was that they could do to just, you know, close this chapter for all of us. But it was, it was ugly and it was hard and it was hard to hear. You know, just a couple of things that stick out to me is that there were bellwether families, there were several of us, and a couple of comments that I remember is you know, the DOJ said something along the lines of you know, you could be exposed to this stuff Like it's no different than like inhaling. This is like inhaling, you know, gas at a gas station, or like fueling up your lawnmower, and I'm thinking to myself.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:My son has permanent lung damage and he's never, you know, put gas in my car at a gas station and he certainly never, you know, fueled up a lawnmower. In fact, you know, live in a historic housing. We didn't even have a lawn mower because the lawn was taken care of for us, you know. So that might make sense for someone like me, you know, a 40 year old adult.
Larry Zilliox:It doesn't make sense for anybody. That's just some lawyer nonsense. And you got to see it firsthand that it was just nonsense and lies and cover up and everybody blaming everybody else but themselves. And yeah, I'm not surprised at that at all.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:We talked a little bit too. This was interesting. So you know there are physical injuries that have been sustained here, a lot of them, you know, from the vestibular stuff that we've got. You know a very dear friend of mine who's been diagnosed now with Parkinson's and we know that's related to fuel exposure. We've had many women lose their babies. There has been just a range of physical injuries that have happened. But as a parent, there is a lot of like mental health issues that have come from this, from stress and anxiety and depression. As a service member, I can tell you both, you know, wearing two hats, as both a mother and an active due service member.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:There has been this sense of institutional betrayal and we actually had a we, our legal team, had a mental health provider that came specifically to talk about institutional betrayal and that was thrown out. And the reasoning why is because the DOJ or the, you know, the judge, didn't need to hear about that and it was compared and this is I had to walk out of court when I heard this, but you know this was no different than anyone would be. You know, feel betrayed if they were poisoning their own employer and it was said in court. This is no different than, you know, working at McDonald's and eating a bad cheeseburger. And I thought to myself you know, there's absolutely nothing wrong with working at McDonald's at all, but less than 1% of our country serves this country and does risk their life for this country. And never in a million years did I, you know, go downrange and risk my life for this country to think that I would come back to American soil, to think I'd come back and move my family to quote unquote paradise for my own employer to now poison my children covered up, lie about it and think that they can just get away with it. And it's like eating a bad cheeseburger, it's like, you know, fueling up my gas tank.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:It just and again, you know, had I not met the people who have gone through this at Camp Lejeune, you know that helped but it still was like a run. I mean that hurt. It hit really deep. For me, it cut very deep as a service member to hear someone just downplay it, the significance of what folks have gone through and how hurtful this has been for people. Yeah, it's been tough and there's still no outcome. You know we're still waiting on a decision. You know thousands of people. There are four different suits, I believe, that have been brought, with thousands of people in each of them and, just like Camp Lejeune, there has been nothing paid out.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:And for us, especially as the lead plaintiffs for this, I just want to make clear that for us it's really has never been about the money. But when you ask, like, what recourse is there for your family? Va benefits does not cover my husband and it does not cover my children, and so the only recourse that civilians whether they are civilian not affiliated to the military, or civilians like my husband and my children their only option is to file a lawsuit against their own government. And as a very patriotic family, like that's tough, that's a really tough position to be in, but that was our only option, because how else are we God forbid when the inevitable happens and my folks end up with some of the cancers and some of the major issues like Parkinson's and things that Camp Lejeune has, because that's all we have to look to, that is our future and that's scary, sure. How else would we be able to afford the best medical care?
Larry Zilliox:Well, let's be honest here, they're the ones that put you in that position, so I don't have any sympathy for them. I think that you know, take them to the cleaners and you know bank that money because you're going to need it, for you know, medical care here it's great but it's super expensive, and you know there are chances of needing care for extended periods of time. For sure. What would you, as we kind of wrap things up here, what would you like our listeners, what's the most important thing that you would like our listeners to know about this journey you've been on and what happened to you?
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Yeah, I think the number one thing is just for folks to be informed, to know about it. I mean, we got back here, back to the States and for over two years. I mean I just went to an appointment this morning and my physician didn't even know about the Red Hill water crisis, much like many people didn't know about Camp Lejeune for 30 years, and so I don't. I want people to be informed. I want medical providers to know what Red Hill is. I want folks to know that this happened. When we start talking about mental health and I believe that this month is mental health awareness and I think that the DOD and the VA are actually having a mental health conference this week as we speak I didn't have any sort of like mental health issues. I had never been diagnosed after my deployment with like PTSD. The stress of this has been at times like just unbearable the mom guilt, the institutional betrayal. You know incidents like this feeling, that sense of betrayal. It cuts deep and it hurts and it changes everything and it is life changing. It is life changing. So I want you know, I want folks to be informed, I want medical providers to be informed, I want what I am looking for out of this is is basic things like the congressional state. From the congressional standpoint, you know, I do want legislation eventually to be passed that does say the government poisons you, the government is obligated to take care of you. That you don't have to file FOIA requests to get test results from the water in your own home that you know I asked for, I wanted to know, because you know, for our treating providers, I wanted them to know exactly what my kids have been exposed to, exactly what was in JP5, because it's not pure. I wanted to know the additives and the constituents and what made up JP5. And so I got a list, but there were several things that said trade secret. But I probably will never know what that additive or constituent was, and I deserve, as a parent, to know what my kids have ingested, and so do their treating providers. They deserve to know that, and so we have a long way to go. But the biggest thing, and the reason I'm so grateful for you and any media outlet that has, you know, allowed me to use their platform to share our story is just awareness.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Congressionally, we're trying to do many things. That's one of them, you know. Another thing that we've been trying to push is something as simple as this might knock you out of your chair is? You know? I've gone to Congress and asked many times people laugh in my face, but you know I asked for hazardous duty pay for the folks who worked, those in this water, who worked in this environment, who are part of the cleanup of Red Hill. It's a very dangerous task, it's a very toxic task and we can't even get those soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, like hazardous duty pay, which is $150 a month. You know I'm going off on a tangent here, but I am a personnelist and pay is part of my area of expertise in my lane and I've said why aren't we paying these people hazardous duty pay? And why that number, that $150 matters is because $150 is how much it costs a family of four to be delivered an alternate water source monthly in Hawaii. I know that because we had an alternate water source delivered to us because we refused to drink the water again, and so I think that folks are doing a I mean, there is the dodie that you know Department of Defense instruction for pay, for special pay out when there was a special section for jet fuel exposure, and they are still refusing to pay these people and I like why and I think it's that you would admit that this stuff is toxic and harmful. But people already know that Thousands of people were sick during COVID, I was a paratrooper and I jumped out of airplanes and I got paid $150 a month because I was on hazardous duty pay.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:I was on hazardous duty orders and so I got $150 a month and I would jump once a quarter. That was my only obligation. During COVID, there was an exception to policy that DOD granted that because we weren't doing airborne operations, there was an exception to policy that says, even though we're not, you know, meeting the minimum requirements to get this pay, you're still going to get your $150 a month. People weren't doing, they weren't jumping out of airplanes, but they were still getting paid. And we can't get people who are actually doing their jobs, who are living on a contaminated drinking water system, who are working in a highly toxic environment. They can't get them $100 a month. It just blows my mind. And so there's a lot of things two years later that we are still working on, but the biggest thing and I'll say it again is just knowledge is power and yeah, Arm yourself for sure.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah Well, listen, major, I can't thank you enough for joining us. It's very important to get these stories out, and one of the things I often think about is there's a lot of young people who joined the military, and one of the things that I always say to them is that when you join the military, it's going to change your life. To him is that when you join the military, it's going to change your life hopefully for the good, but maybe not but it's going to change your life. I can guarantee that and, unfortunately, in this particular instance, it just wasn't for the good, and I thank you so much for bringing this to our attention and to being willing to talk about it. It's so important. I really, really appreciate you coming on.
Maj. Amanda Feindt:Thank you so much.
Larry Zilliox:So for our regular listeners, we'll have another episode next Monday morning at 5 am. If you have any questions or suggestions, you can reach us at podcast at willingwarriorsorg. Until then, thanks for listening.
