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Welcome Home - A Podcast for Veterans, About Veterans, By Veterans
SEAL Team 6: Inside Stories with an Original Plank Owner
A rare conversation with Frank Phillips, one of the original "plank owners" of SEAL Team 6 and Red Cell, takes us behind the curtain of America's elite counter-terrorism unit and reveals startling truths about national security vulnerabilities that later became tragic realities.
Frank shares his remarkable journey from being a restless 17-year-old who "just wanted to be a warrior" to becoming part of the legendary unit personally selected by Commander Richard Marcinko in 1980. With candor and humility, he recounts the grueling selection process, intense training regimens, and the unique culture that made SEAL Team 6 revolutionary in special operations.
Perhaps most compelling are Frank's revelations about his work with "Red Cell" – a specialized team tasked with testing security at America's most sensitive facilities by simulating terrorist attacks. "It was a lot easier than it should be," Frank admits about penetrating nuclear sites, embassies, and military installations. His account of flying a plane near a submarine during a security exercise in the 1980s feels eerily prescient, given later events.
Throughout our conversation, Frank offers a nuanced perspective on the controversial Commander Marcinko, describing him as "a visionary" who was "light years ahead of everyone else" in understanding emerging threats. "It was never about him," Frank insists, countering public perceptions of his former leader. The deep bonds formed among these elite warriors shine through as Frank reflects on old team photos, noting with poignancy that many teammates are now deceased: "Every one of those 80 of us created a bond that will never, ever be broken."
Ready to hear more incredible stories from those who've served at the highest levels? Subscribe to our podcast and join us each week as we honor the experiences of America's veterans.
Good morning. I'm your host, larry Ziliox, Director of Culinary Services here at the Warrior Retreat at Bull Run, and thanks to everybody joining us today for our 100th episode. We're pretty excited about it. We have a very special guest with us today and that's Frank Phillips, a longtime family friend of ours, who is an original SEAL Team 6 member. A couple months ago over dinner he grudgingly agreed to come on to be our guest for the 100th episode. So, frank, welcome to the podcast. We're really excited to have you here.
Frank Phillips:Well, thank you, Larry, and congratulations on your 100th podcast session. Not sure why you asked me, but I'm honored to be honest with you, so thank you.
Larry Zilliox:Well, I was certain you would make an awesome guest because there's such a mystique around SEAL Team 6 and you're a plank owner, which, if you would just take a minute to describe to our listeners what it means when they hear plank owner as a Navy term related to different units- Well, plank owner, as it pertains in a Navy, is basically when they would build the wooden ships and so on, the first sailors that were assigned to that ship, that command, if you will, actually received a piece of a plank that the ship was built out of.
Frank Phillips:hence the term plank owner. Nowadays they're steel ships and we don't get to take a piece of that home with us, but we do have the honor of being the original members, founding members, of that organization or that command.
Larry Zilliox:That would mean in 1980, commander Marchenko chose you as one of a large group of original SEAL Team 6 members and that is now bestowed on everybody who joined the unit at that time. Is that right?
Frank Phillips:That is correct. Back then, Commander Marcinko went throughout the SEAL Teams and the UDTs and chose 80 men to begin the new command, SEAL Team 6. And I was fortunate enough to be chosen as one of those 80 men.
Larry Zilliox:So we'll talk a little bit about that process in which you get chosen to be part of such a unique special unit. But let's start with a little bit about how you came to join the Navy and what your initial training was like. So that would be UDT and then BUDS and then into one of the SEAL teams. So why did you join the Navy?
Frank Phillips:Well, I was a young, restless young man that thought he could do more outside of my age group at the time. My parents weren't content with that, so we had a lot of home struggles and I figured I was much older and more prepared to go into the world than they thought I was. So I got in. A lot of trouble is the bottom line. I was a big sports enthusiast. All the high school sports I participated in, and I just wanted to be a warrior, so to speak. I didn't even know about the SEAL teams or the UDTs at the time, but I did know I wanted to join the Navy, and I wanted to do it sooner than later. I wasn't a big fan of the school system. I seemed to. The sports I enjoyed, but the academics I got through, but I didn't want to spend a whole lot of time in school. I wanted to get out in the world and do something. So at age 17, I basically dropped out, based on the trouble I was getting into with the family and the community, and joined the Navy. Originally, I didn't join to join the SEAL teams, because I did not know they existed. While in boot camp, though, I saw a wonderful film, men with Green Faces, which was a Vietnam era recruiting film for SEALs and frogmen, and at that point I wanted to do that. I went to the recruiters and I said I'd like to go there. They said you don't have a chance of making it, so please choose five other items that you want to excel at. A little backstory on that. Growing up I was not a big fan of airplanes, but my brother, 17 months younger than me, loved airplanes, built every model of airplane there was and I would break it, he would build it, I would break it and I'd get in trouble. Anyway, the bottom line to that is in the Navy I chose four trades that were all construction trades bulldozer operator, carpenter and I ran out of a fifth choice and a Navy recruiter at the time said and I ran out of a fifth choice and a Navy recruiter at the time said why don't you consider being a jet mechanic? And I said no way, I don't like airplanes, I don't want anything to do with them, I don't want to choose that. He said well, put it down, you won't get it anyway. That's your fifth choice. Needless to say, I ended up becoming a jet engine mechanic out of boot camp. I didn't make it to SEAL training at that time Was assigned to a squadron at NAS North Highland, which is just north of the BUDS Basic Underwater Demolition SEAL training unit. So I'd have to pass through the unit every day, going to and from work.
Frank Phillips:As an aviation person. That I wasn't pleased about, and then in the evenings I lived right on the beach. I grew up in Los Angeles and I grew up surfing a lot. So after work I'd hit the beach, I'd surf in the morning, I'd surf before work, and one day out there a couple of guys that I got to know that were surfing as well happened to be frogmen and seals. So they said, hey, you're out here all the time. It appears you like the water. You know why don't you try out for the teams? And I said, well, I did once and they told me I'd never make it. So I moved on. They said, well, you don't know unless you try. So I thought about it. I said, yep, I'm going to give it a shot.
Frank Phillips:I went into my commanding officer Monday morning and I requested the opportunity to go to SEAL training and he just flat denied it. And the reason was was it was a brand new aircraft coming to the squadron. I was one of the six jet engine mechanics that had been trained specifically on this aircraft. So the Navy had already invested in me to do this process and they weren't going to cut me loose, at least for four years, until I helped train other mechanics, and at that time I had a uncle-in-law in the Pentagon, a captain, navy captain. So that was Monday. I got rejected from my commanding officer. I went home and I dialed the telephone up. Officer. I went home and I dialed the telephone up. I said hey, captain, so-and-so. I said I'd really like to do this in the Navy, but I've been denied the opportunity. Is there anything that you possibly could do? And he said I'm not sure I can, but we'll see.
Frank Phillips:That same Friday I went into my command and as soon as I reported to work I was called to the captain's office and I was chewed out royally. He had a yeah, it was, it was a tough uh 15 minutes in front of him and basically the bottom line was he said I don't know who. You know who you think you are, but you do have orders to seal training and when you fail and will fail, young man, you're coming right back to my squadron and you'll pay the price. Anyway, I said aye, aye, captain, and out I went and I reported to SEAL training or BUDS training and once I graduated from that I did go back to the squadron and I actually went and visited my former commanding officer and I thanked him for the motivation, went and visited my former commanding officer and I thanked him for the motivation and he wished me well and was glad that I did make it. So no hard feelings. In the end, what year?
Frank Phillips:was that that was 1975. Wow, okay, and I joined the Navy in 1973. Right.
Larry Zilliox:Okay.
Frank Phillips:So yeah, and I'll be honest with you, there are times it's spiritual, quite honestly, but it takes all of that and it takes all of that and they purposely put you through those various realms of elements to find out who you really are, because, as we know, when we're alone out there doing something later in life you need to call on all those resources. The neat thing was I not only went through BUDS, but eventually I became a BUDS instructor, so I got to see it from both sides.
Larry Zilliox:Wow, and so you're through BUDS and you get assigned to a team. What team did you go to originally?
Frank Phillips:Well, I went to UDT 11, Underwater Demolition Team 11, which was on the West Coast Right.
Larry Zilliox:Okay At San Diego.
Frank Phillips:Yes, Colorado yeah.
Larry Zilliox:How long?
Frank Phillips:were you there. I was in UDT 11, probably 18 months. What I did there was, as soon as I graduated BUDS, they put me in a seagoing platoon. So I went from Buzz, I went through jump school, army jump school and then immediately into what they call an ORE operational readiness evaluation. The platoon was already together and there was four of us, as they call FNGs, friendly new guys. Okay, in this platoon of all Vietnam veterans, I mean heroes, good men. So we were the four newbies and as soon as I got back from jump school, they threw me in this operational readiness exercise to where we had to do all the things that we were going to do on our deployment and pass so that we could go together as a platoon. So we got thrown right into this mix of these senior, senior vets, well-respected men. So that was wonderful for me because I learned a whole lot. But we got abused throughout that platoon as well. I bet yeah, but it was a good cruise.
Larry Zilliox:And so were you an instructor at the time that you were contacted about coming on board with SEAL Team 6, or were you in a team?
Frank Phillips:No, I was actually at Buzz as an instructor when Commander Marcinko went out and started the interviews. That is correct, yeah.
Larry Zilliox:Had you served with him in any capacity prior to that, or how did he become aware of you and how did it come up that you were a prospect for the team?
Frank Phillips:So what happened after Team 11, I went back to SEAL Team 2 on the East Coast and there I was in a platoon and we had some new guys come in and in our platoon a new teammate came in by the name of Larry, and Larry was a former Marine and got out of the Marines, went into the SEALs, went through BUDS, graduated and was a new teammate in SEAL Team 2 in our deploying platoon at the time and I was designated as the ordnance department rep for our platoon and I needed to have someone assist me. So when I was going through the manpower selections we had Larry was a Marine, figured he knew weapons well I asked to have him as my assistant ordnance teammate and that was approved. He became my assistant. We became really close friends throughout our deployments out of SEAL Team 2. And then at some point in SEAL Team 2, I had my father passed away and I came back for his funeral.
Frank Phillips:At the time I had a three-year-old daughter who was having some medical issues and we took her to the Naval Hospital and found out she didn't have long to live either. So the Navy was kind enough, generous enough, asked me what did I want to do in that period of time we had left with her. So I asked to be transferred to the West Coast where I grew up with my family, to SEAL Team 1, and allow her to pass and then, you know, remain at SEAL Team 1. So Larry and I became very close friends in that deployment and time we spent together in Team 2.
Frank Phillips:Once I went to the West Coast and my daughter passed and I got back into SEAL Team 1. I made a deployment with them. Larry and I stayed in contact. But then when I came back from the deployment to do shore duty, I went to the training center BUDS, and Larry called me up one night and he said I'm not talking to you, but if you get a request to interview with Commander Marcinko, who used to be CEO of SEAL Team 2, take it. So that's everything we've ever dreamed about doing as warriors in the teams and this is an opportunity to be on the front line in helping and developing that process. So I said don't ask questions, just say yes and go, okay.
Larry Zilliox:So for those of our listeners who have read the commander's book Rogue One, you'll know Frank and Larry to be the Gold Dust Twins and it's a fascinating book and I encourage everybody to read it because it's really interesting the whole way that the commander stood up the team and fought for everything that you guys used and and what was it like you, having been in SEAL Team 2 on the East Coast, then to 1 and then now into 6, which everything that I read about it in in the commander's book and any place else it? It was just light years ahead of the other teams as far as budget, as far as equipment, as far as the ability to develop your own equipment and figure out what works best for you and not having to work with off-the-shelf kind of stuff, switching over to weapons made not by the United States, just things that other units just dreamed about. So all of a sudden it was really different for you. What did you think about that?
Frank Phillips:Well, let me say, first and foremost, it was incredible. I mean to sum it all up, it was just an incredible experience, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and what I want to say is that the men are the men across the board, and Commander Marcinko decided to choose who he chose. For whatever reasons and you know that's a whole other story he chose, you know, seasoned vets for purposes. He chose non-combat vets for other purposes and he chose rogues, if you will, for purposes of going beyond what is allowed. But what he did that really helped get us light years ahead, if you will, was the equipment being able to acquire or being able to develop and test equipment that wasn't on the shelf, that wasn't in the military system. We went outside, basically for the experts, worldwide experts to help us develop, design and utilize equipment for new tactics and techniques that we were developing as well, techniques that we were developing as well. So I think he provided the purse and we provided the wants. Hey, if we could have this or if we could do that, you know we could accomplish so-and-so. And he'd say, well, do it. And he relied, like I said, there was 80 men to start with and every one of us had triple, quadruple duties to go out and find something that was outside the norm. How do we perfect this, how do we make you know, how do we go faster, how do we go deeper, how do we go farther, harder, and so on.
Frank Phillips:And I think that the people that he selected had that mindset, which is what helped propel us through developing these new things. In fact, somewhere in our original designation I think we were kind of a T&E outfit test and evaluate outfit. I think that's how he helped sell some of the things he sold. You know, you guys build it, we'll break it and then we'll help you make it better, and that's what we did. You know, we were instrumental in the Ram Air parachutes for the military across the board. They weren't using square parachutes at the time and we started using those. We actually began the process by towing each other behind a Jeep, like flying a kite at 500 feet of rope. You know, wow, at 500 feet of rope, you know Wow. That was interesting and we had some failures on that as well, but that's how we did things. We just figured it out and tried it and made it work.
Larry Zilliox:And if it didn't work we moved on to the next. So I also got the sense, in reading the book too, that almost everything that the commander did was done with sort of training in mind, and even the simplest things like we're going from point A to point B, we're leaving Little Creek and we're going to Louisiana, but we're going to make the trip to Louisiana. Training in the sense of how we transport, how we look, how we operate as groups of guys traveling one way. And I know when you deployed overseas sometimes some would fly, some would take the train from an operational security standpoint, I understand that you don't travel as a group of 80 guys it would be pretty obvious what was going on, but it seemed like everything he did he was so focused, laser focused on how can I use this time and this, what we're about to do, as training to make things better for the team? Do you get the sense that? Was there ever any over training? Was there ever anything? Can't we just get in the car and drive?
Frank Phillips:He put us at such a fast pace from day one, day one, the initial muster and formation of the team. Once we checked in, everybody looked at each other. We spent the next seven, eight weeks and almost a 24-hour a day, six to seven days a week, training just to get up to speed, to operate according to him. Like I said, he multitasked all of us with multiple things, but every moment of every day was intentional. It really was. We were divided into two teams. Each team had six to eight boat crews of six to eight men apiece and that would be our elements, how we function. And, yes, when we traveled, it was always operational and back then, you know, terrorism was a big event. So we all had cover stories, if you will. We all had different names that we were asked to use when it was appropriate times. So, wherever we were, you had to be in that element and ready to go. As an example, we got through this seven to eight weeks of extremely intensive training and we all had actually conics boxes per boat crew. That was set up with our operational gear loadout. So at any given time we had an X number of hours, if you will, to be recalled, pack up and be on the tarmac ready to go. So all of us had a conics box, wooden cubicles in it, so you would have your weapons equipment, you would have your parachuted, whatever was all staged there. So, whatever the operation was, you'd be called in gather it up, and off you go.
Frank Phillips:So we got through the seven or eight weeks of intensive training and everybody was extremely exhausted. I mean, we were beat down to nothing and we knew it was the index. So everybody decided we're going to have a night on the town. So the entire team blue team, gold team finished training and off we went downtown to the local local clubs and bars and we just got smashed, okay. And about 3 o'clock that morning he held a recall, knowing what we were doing. Some people didn't even make it, some fell asleep under their cars trying to get—anyway, it was crazy. But he made a point. He said if you're going to be part of this organization, if you're going to do the things we want you to do and the things that you want to do, you better be ready, first and foremost, to have your priorities right. Yeah, don't ever, don't, ever let it happen again. Wow.
Larry Zilliox:Wow, that was an eye opener. Yeah, I can't imagine Thinking back to your time in there. What did you like best about what you did Shooting, blowing stuff up, diving parachuting. Did you have a favorite activity that you were excited about when it came time to do that?
Frank Phillips:So I enjoyed, larry, all of it, to be honest with you, and it was nice because it wasn't a routine but I did, I truly enjoyed all of it. But I'm going to share with you and it was nice because it wasn't a routine, but I did, I truly enjoyed all of it. But I'm going to share with you and I'm going to go back to the beginning of all this to make a point here. But we ended up being our bow crew within Blue Team, ended up being the Air Ops team Because our skill sets with the people we had in our crew Larry will deny this because he hated jumping and he got stuck in the air ops boat crew, but anyway. So we helped develop and train the guys with the new free fall equipment and so on, and we would test it, throwing boats out of the airplane with parachutes and us following it, jumping on oil rigs and landing on the helicopter platform, which is a 50-foot square on the top of the 120, 140-foot rig.
Larry Zilliox:If you miss that, you're in pretty deep ocean.
Frank Phillips:Right and we didn't always make it. Some missed and hopefully they just fell in the ocean, Hopefully they didn't get wrapped up in the oil rig structure on the way down. But anyway, those are the things that we did. So to answer your question, um, I truly enjoyed all of it.
Frank Phillips:I enjoyed being pushed to excel at every item and then at one point I was approached and asked if you will if there's such a thing in the military uh, to be a pilot for the team. Now I go back and I shared with my senior chief at the time. I said I don't like airplanes, I don't want to fly airplanes, I don't mind jumping out of them, but I don't want to be a pilot. He says, well, you're going to be one, and we thank you for that. So I ended up becoming a pilot, for he says, well, you're going to be one, and we thank you for that. So I ended up becoming a pilot for the team actually both fixed wing and helicopter for the team and I enjoyed that.
Frank Phillips:But, to be honest with you, what I enjoyed the most out of it was being given a plan, a mission, and figuring out how we're going to get through it successfully. Yeah, so the planning, putting all these pieces together. That's what I enjoyed doing the most in that team and we had. We were given the authority, the responsibility, to do that for JSOC at a time. So myself and other young enlisted men, Marseille, gave us the responsibility to say, hey, plan it out guys, brief it to the generals and let's go.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah. So there comes a time where you get into Red Cell, so could you just briefly explain to our listeners who aren't familiar with that what it involved and what Red Cell was all about?
Frank Phillips:So, as we know, seal Team 6 was designed to be a counterterrorist team. Counterterrorism is basically being prepared, being capable, able to go in and bring back those that have been taken or the high-value targets that need to be taken. And Marcinko had a thought if we've got counterterrorism going here, we should have an anti-terrorism program complementing the two. So Red Cell was created as a Navy security coordination team was a legal title of that command, of that command, and the purpose of Red Cell was to help avoid another Iran hostage situation. So you know, our hostages were taken but we had no intelligence of the embassy, the structure, the surrounding areas and so on.
Frank Phillips:So Red Cell was created to go out and test and evaluate the high areas of probability that terrorists would target, so nuclear sites, embassies, you know, sub-grotten, connecticut, sub-pens.
Frank Phillips:So that was the charter for that. So we he took 13 members from six and we became plank owners of Red Cell and created this team that went around the world exercising these key facilities as a terrorist known in that territory would be able to do. We weren't allowed to use all the high-tech equipment and tactics that we had developed at Team 6. We could only use whatever was available to the local group that we were protecting against. So we would go in and we would exercise that facility and they would get warning. You know, in the next month to six weeks you know we're coming in and we're just going to do what we can do to penetrate and see what your defenses are and at the end of that each exercise we would give them what we call a quick look. So whatever was most prominent lack of defense, we would stay behind and help them shore that up, train their people and fix it, basically before we get the full report back to them. And they would take longer to implement the recommended changes, did you?
Larry Zilliox:find that in most cases the security was not good at all. Or was this an easy thing to penetrate, or were there embassies and God help us nuclear facilities that were really secure that you couldn't penetrate?
Frank Phillips:What I'm going to say is it was a lot easier than we thought. It was a lot easier than it should be. Yeah, and I can sit here today, and what we represented to these various locations that we went to, each and every one of those things that we applied at those areas did in fact become fact, which is a shame, because in the mid-80s, late 80s, when we were doing this, in the early 90s and mid 90s, the things that we exposed did in fact take place. You go back to you asked me about Morseco and always preparing, always moving ahead, and honestly, in my opinion, he was light years ahead of everyone else as it pertained potential issues in problem solving. So we did that, I mean as an example. It's kind of a funny story as well, but it's not. In the end.
Frank Phillips:We're in Groton, connecticut, where the nuclear subpans are, and that was one of our exercises, and I was given the task of flying an airplane into one of the submarines that was Pearside, as a representation of flying an aircraft into a valuable target.
Frank Phillips:So Larry and I jumped in the plane one day, flew up, flew down to Thames River and I buzzed the top of the deck of the sub that was Pearside, and then I pulled up before the bridge and made another bombing run, if you will, and went and landed the plane at some point there. One of the local citizens in the community thought the plane had crashed into the water and the local police and so on were alerted and my commander at the time called me up and he said hey, frank, did you fly that mission? I asked you to fly earlier today. I said yes, we did. He said well, it's reported that the plane crashed in the river. Did you guys crash? I had to laugh and I said no, duke, we didn't crash. You're talking to me, but those are the examples of what we did, which again later ended up, unfortunately, being real life.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah, how long were you in? When did you separate?
Frank Phillips:So I was in 18 years and I left in the 90, in 1990, and went on to civilian life.
Larry Zilliox:So two years away from 20,. Why 18 years?
Frank Phillips:Well, if you know the history behind Commander Marcinko, if you know the books and again, people either love them or they hate them. I don't think there's many that are just in between. But from my personal experience he was a wonderful commander, he created things that were not possible by many others and he was a good man. He was a great leader and I respected and I befriended him for many years leader and I respected and I befriended him for many years. We did an operation in Red Cell where DOD Department of Defense employee was involved as a security officer for the base and he was taken hostage. If you will, part of the exercise, I'm the one that did it and anyway it became a lawsuit from that which generated some legal issues for the command and for Commander Marcinko.
Frank Phillips:In addition to that, the Navy went after Commander Marcinko for anything and everything they could possibly find, in my opinion because he just ruffled too many feathers in the process of doing what he did. So where I came in on this, having been part of that operation in Red Cell, they put me under a pretty intensive investigation for about three years. Everything, bank accounts, phone calls. I mean it was pretty intense and at the end of it all, nothing really turned up. And when I say nothing really turned up, they had a potential travel claim that statute of limitations had expired. I think it was in the amount of $500 in question, god.
Frank Phillips:Bottom line was NIS approached me and they said we want you to provide evidence against Commander Marcinko for things that he has done. And I said, honestly, I can't do that because I'm not aware of anything and I'm not going to generate, create something, for fear of my own well-being. And they didn't believe that. Anyway, the bottom line was I said no, I'm not going to do that. And then they reminded me I was in the military and you fix that Just get out of the military.
Frank Phillips:Well, they had a senior officer come in and give me a direct order to cooperate. So I did. I cooperated with the same thing that I had previously done the same statement about the facts of the incident. And they didn't like that because it wasn't anything new and it wasn't going to harm the commander. So they said, fine, we're just going to put you out there and if we need more, we'll come back and talk to you more. I said so, I'm through with you. All right, you're good with what I've done. They said, yeah, but don't go anywhere.
Frank Phillips:So I learned that my EOS, my exit date, was like 60 days away and it wasn't known or I think they didn't assume that I would actually exit at 18 years. And I just said I'm done, I've had enough. You know I've been a good actually exit at 18 years. And I just said I'm done, I've had enough. You know I've been a good sailor all these years. I believe in what I'm doing, I believe in what was done, I believe in Commander Marcinko and the teams and the process, but I'm not going to wait around for 19 years and 11 months and 29 days for you to come up with something for some reason similar to what you did to Marcinko, that would eliminate my retirement at that point. Sure, so I said I've had enough. Adios.
Larry Zilliox:Well, I don't blame you. I mean, it just was a huge railroad job.
Frank Phillips:It truly was and, like I said, in Team 6 and Red Cell it wasn't a regular military command in the sense of you know the officer goes one way and the elicit go the other way. We were actually enmeshed with each other, constantly, friends, and you know we knew each other's business is my point, is my point, and at no time did I ever see the things take place or happen that were suggested that Marcinko had done. So I'm just, I'm not a believer in that.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah, Well, for any of our listeners who've been in the military, they know I don't care what your job is, they'll find something. You didn't fill something out right, they'll find something. If they really want fill something out right, they'll find something. If they really want to put the screws to you. And there's really no way to avoid that other than separate and say, look, I'm done with you and don't bother me anymore, really. So I wish our listeners were here in the room with us, because you brought some really cool mementos of your time in the teams, one of which is a picture of the entire team without, like, little black bars across their eyes or anything like that, which is really something. There's also a photo of your boat crew, and Larry is in there, and are you still in touch with those guys, or I know you go to the reunions.
Frank Phillips:Yeah, no, I'm in touch, Larry. Larry and I stay in touch. Well, we all do, for the most part, yeah, and every year we have a reunion and we're old now, we're old, we're old guys. I mean, 1980 was a long time ago, oh, I know. Uh, and the reason I say that is once I separated, you know, I never looked back, yeah, and in fact I just I didn't make contact either, I just went on my merry way. But our 30th reunion, I did attend 30 years.
Frank Phillips:I attended and it was wonderful and we were treated very well by the guys you know their green teams and new guys into that organization, you know, escorted us and just made us feel great. But when I left there I was depressed for probably at least a week, because all those guys down there now are much bigger, they're smarter, they're harder. I mean, these guys are monsters and they've got equipment that we didn't even dream about back then. But no, we stay in touch. I go more often now because things have settled down. But the boat crew picture I have here, you know Larry's there, we've got Donnie and Brian and Ray and Dave, and half of them are deceased now. Oh, wow, yeah, so it's, as Marcinko used to say, fond memories of all this, yeah, including Marcinko. You know he died a couple of Decembers ago.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah, we have a brick here at the retreat that was placed by his family. It was really a wonderful day when they came out and put a brick down to honor him and kind of a memorial area we have around our flagpole for those who are closely associated with the retreat no longer with us. The other thing you have which I find fascinating is all your ID cards and of course, I've never seen you with a beard. That looks pretty crazy when you look at it. When you look at the team picture, what do you miss the most?
Frank Phillips:Well, I think you said it's the team, Every one of those members there, every one of the 80 of us created a bond that will never, ever be broken. And it didn't matter. If I mean in the book you're talking about Rogue Warrior, you know, I was yelled at the first day we mustered, you know, by Marcinko, because I was wearing a SEAL Team 1 t-shirt in a new command that was supposed to be, you know, Anyway, but every one of those men, they're our brothers and truly the brotherhood. The funny things that have happened, the sad things that have happened, just life together. And the point I was getting, you know, Marcenco and I and many of us have remained friends, even though we didn't all retire together or all move forward in professional areas in our lives. But we remain friends to this day and beyond is what I'll tell you. But yeah, I miss the guys, the tribe, you got it.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah, yeah, I know I'm still in touch with guys and women that I served with and talk to them regularly, because it's not a connection you find in the civilian world.
Larry Zilliox:You can sometimes come close.
Larry Zilliox:In the civilian world we tend to take oh, they're kind of like our second family, but in the military they're like our first family because you're there and you're with people that you know have your back no matter what and you're willing to have their back no matter what.
Larry Zilliox:And it is tribe. It's probably the thing that most veterans miss the most and have the most trouble dealing with really is they find themselves on a journey or a search to recreate it or find it in the civilian world, and when it's not attainable, it can lead to problems in their life for sure, and I think it's just wonderful that you got to experience a once inin-a-lifetime thing, as you said. But I will tell our listeners that one of the things Frank would probably be the last person in the world to tell you is that since his time in the teams, he has spent most of his civilian career and life sharing knowledge and helping others not only veterans but law enforcement and government of individuals and training and making sure that they have skills that help them and help us as a country.
Larry Zilliox:You know, I know I really appreciate that you could have went off and could have had a really miserable life as an accountant or a pilot or something but you chose to have a career and create a business in which you help the right people that then help the community and are the ones that stand in the breach. Those are the ones that protect us that we don't even really know about. That's something. Just to be able to have that knowledge and to be willing to share it with others is really phenomenal. So I know I really appreciate that, and I'm sure all of our listeners do as well, as we kind of wrap up here what's the one thing you want our listeners to know? That might not be in the book, might not be in Rogue One, but, based on your personal experience, what's the one thing you want them to know about Commander Marcinko?
Frank Phillips:Well, he was a visionary and he did it for us, not for him. It was never about him. A lot of people don't believe that, but I know him and it wasn't about him. It was about how he could make us better and in turn us protect our country better and thwart the evils that are out there. That's what he lived for and we spent a lot of time together before his passing, and he was already designing the space warrior process. What are we going to do from space and for the rest of us? The last thing on our minds. But he was working forward, as always. And again, it wasn't for him, it was for our country and for our warriors. And that's how I remember him and that's what I would hope others remember him as.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah for sure. Well, listen, thank you so much for coming sitting down with us for this 100th episode. I'm glad you're willing to make yourself available to us and we'll just kind of book you now for our 200th episode. I think that'd be great. That will be more of a video one soon, but thanks so much. I really appreciate you joining us.
Frank Phillips:Well, larry, I want to thank you and I want to thank the Willing Warriors for all you're doing, and you asked me a key question what do I miss from these days? And that's what we all miss, and you're providing. The Willing Warriors are providing an opportunity for our brothers and sisters to come together again and share their stories and their experiences amongst those that understand those. So well done to you and the organization and, as you know, we're supporters.
Larry Zilliox:Oh yeah, you guys are big supporters and we really appreciate that, not only personally, but your business supports us and, yeah, we can't thank you enough for that. Really really appreciate the support.
Frank Phillips:So, yeah, thank you so much, but just keep doing what you're doing because it's working and we're appreciative, so thank you.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah, well for our listeners. We'll have another episode next Monday morning. If you have any questions or suggestions, you can reach us at podcast at willingwarriorsorg. Until then, thanks for listening.
