Welcome Home - A Podcast for Veterans, About Veterans, By Veterans
Welcome Home is a Willing Warriors and the Warrior Retreat at Bull Run project. The program highlights activities at the Warrior Retreat and issues impacting all Veterans. For questions or feedback, please email us at podcast@willingwarriors.org.
Welcome Home - A Podcast for Veterans, About Veterans, By Veterans
Accidental Entrepreneur: When Plan A Becomes Plan Me
What happens when a decorated Army lieutenant colonel with 20 years of service faces an unexpected divorce just as she's transitioning to civilian life? For Olivia Nunn, it meant becoming what she calls an "accidental entrepreneur." Despite having what she considered "the master playbook" for military transition from her work with the Army's Soldier for Life program, Nunn found herself at rock bottom, rebuilding her life and career from scratch.
This compelling conversation explores how female veterans can leverage their military experience to build successful businesses, despite facing unique challenges. Nunn, who served 10 years as a chemical officer and another decade in public affairs, shares her raw, honest journey of transformation. She reveals how a simple lunch meeting with a fellow veteran sparked her entrepreneurial journey when he asked, "Where's your LLC?" - reminding her of the valuable skills she possessed but had temporarily forgotten during her personal struggles.
The discussion tackles the primary barriers female veteran entrepreneurs face - particularly access to funding. Despite being the fastest-growing demographic in entrepreneurship across America, women veterans receive the least capital investment. Nunn addresses how women's tendency to seek 100% qualification before applying for opportunities (compared to men's comfort with 60%) creates self-imposed limitations, and how finding the right mentors can make all the difference.
For veterans considering entrepreneurship, this episode offers a treasure trove of free resources - from the Institute for Veterans and Military Families (IVMF) at Syracuse University offering free certification training, to Mill Mentor's online mentorship platform, to organizations like MOAA that serve all veterans regardless of rank. As Nunn powerfully states, "Age, your gender, and where you come from shouldn't stop you. Chase your dreams and don't let fear stop you." Connect with Olivia Nunn on social media to learn more about resources for veteran entrepreneurs.
Good morning. I'm your host, Larry Zilliox, Director of Culinary Services here at the Warrior Retreat at Bull Run this week. Our guest is Olivia Nunn. She is an Army veteran and has a very strong background in entrepreneurship for veterans and especially, I wanted to talk to her today about female veterans and some of the ways that they can get started in their own business and some of the resources that they can use as veterans to get starting their own business. So, olivia, welcome to the podcast.
Olivia Nunn:Thank you, larry. So much for the invite. I know we've tried to do this for a while and I'm finally here, so I appreciate it.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah, that happens occasionally. I get some guests just okay, we'll do it in a couple months. Okay, we'll do it in a couple months. Well, that day has come, and I'm really happy about that. Why don't we start with you telling us a little bit about your Army career and especially why you decided to join the Army and not the Air Force?
Olivia Nunn:So it all started because at the age of four, I knew I was going to join the Army and not the Air Force. So it all started because at the age of four, I knew I was going to join the Army. My dad is an Army vet, so I'm second generation into the Army. My dad was a combat engineer. He was enlisted and did 12 years and I am the oldest of three girls for him and I'm daddy's little girl and I knew I wanted to join the Army. And my dad said you can go, but you have to become an officer. I had no idea what he meant by that.
Olivia Nunn:I am first generation Korean American and education is super important in our culture. So he said you're going to become an officer, you're going to get your education. Sure, dad, whatever you say, I just knew that I wanted to be in the Army. What I was going to do, where I was going to go, how long I was going to stay in, had no clue. I just knew I wanted to be in the army. So I went to college, went to Radford University in.
Olivia Nunn:Virginia, and then I ended up commissioning.
Larry Zilliox:Wow, and when was that?
Olivia Nunn:I commissioned in 2001 and I was a chemical officer initially, and I did that for 10 years, and then I became a public affairs officer for another 10 years, and so I finished out doing 20 years at the rank of lieutenant colonel.
Larry Zilliox:Wow, wow. And a chemical officer. Do you work with chemical munitions, or what is that all about?
Olivia Nunn:Well, technically the whole entire title, if you're ready for it. It's a little mouthful. It's CBRN Chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear. Really, what that does is the chemical officer, or chemo for short, is in charge of understanding any of those types of incidences on the battlefield, to either go around or work through those incidences on the battlefield and to tell the commander hey, sir ma'am, that type of CBRN incident happened on the battlefield and either we're going to we recommend you to fight through that or go around. So really you're a reactive staff member on the staff. So when the chemo's actually doing their job it's a bad day for everybody.
Larry Zilliox:Sure, did you have to wear those funky suits and the masks and everything and like they used to put us in those occasionally when I was in Guam and you just about die from the heat and sweat. Was there a lot of that kind of thing? Yes, MOP4.
Olivia Nunn:Yes, so as a chemical officer you actually have to be certified in MOT4. At Fort Leonard Wood in Missouri you actually have to go through a certification process where you're you don on that equipment. You actually go through chambers where they actually bring in live agents and you go through scenarios and be able to clear through it.
Larry Zilliox:OK, well, I'll tell you, public affairs sounds a little bit easier than that. Did you enjoy your time in public affairs?
Olivia Nunn:I did. My choice to move from chemical to public affairs was a personal choice and the Army granted that for me, because I felt like I'd outgrown the chemical positions within the military and I wanted to do something different and I thought being a storyteller would best fit me, because I've always been a storyteller. I've always crafted stories in my head ever since I was a kid and I thought that would be a better fit and I truly did enjoy that, as I did that at the strategic level in the Army.
Larry Zilliox:So you hit your 20 and you get out. Now was this something you had planned to do and said in your mind I'm only doing 20, when that day comes up, I'm out of here, or what brought you to that point where you say it's time for me to get out?
Olivia Nunn:I think, just like anybody else, you go through phases in your military career where you enjoy and love the military, where you're like I'm a lifer, and then there's other times like I can't stand this, I want to get out. And I definitely had those periods. My first eight years in the military went by so fast. I deployed three times in my early career. I went to Iraq three times during OIF-1, during the surge period and then when we turned over the cities to Iraq. And so for me, my first eight years went by literally in a blink of an eye. And the next thing I know I hit 12 years. And everybody knows if you pass that 10-year threshold, you don't quit. And it's when I hit that 12-year threshold that I was not in love with the Army anymore. I really, really hated the army, but you don't quit. So I was just counting down to eight more years to get out. And then I made Lieutenant Colonel and I had three years left. And then I fell in love with the army again. I was like this I love this, I want to stay in. But at that point I had two children. I had a daughter and now a son, so I'm an older mom because I chose to chase my career when I was younger and I thought about staying in.
Olivia Nunn:However, the Army had a different idea for me. I was dual military at the time. I was married to another Army lieutenant colonel. He was a cyber officer at that time and they were constantly trying to spread us apart, pushing me to different places, pushing him to different places, and I just could not fathom living a life where we were, you know, pushing our kids between us to different locations, and for me, that was a whole reason why I was an older mom, because I didn't want to do that as a mom that was younger. And so we just came to this choice where, you know what, we've had a great run 20 years. There's nothing wrong with 20 years and being lieutenant colonels. So we decided to punch our clock.
Larry Zilliox:No, yeah. And so what was that like for you as a female veteran and an officer? What was that transition like for you?
Olivia Nunn:It was for me. It was rough Even though I was for me. It was rough Even though I was for me. It was rough for a couple of different personal reasons, but at the same time, I thought I was ready. So I was naive in some ways, and here's why I was working for US Army Soldier for Life and we were in the business of transitioning service members. So I had the master playbook and I did that for the last three years of my career and that's why a lot of people actually know me.
Olivia Nunn:I was Lieutenant Colonel Olivia Nunn. I had created one of the first Army podcast series. I was all over social media. I traveled all over the world giving presentations on behalf of the US Army and I loved what I did. And I had this master playbook on how to transition well. I created connections and networks with corporate America and with other military nonprofits civilian nonprofits on how to get out of your uniform and do it well. So I thought this is going to be easy for me because I have the master notebook.
Olivia Nunn:What I didn't take into account for was Murphy's Law and what it does for you in your personal life, as I dropped my paperwork and was preparing for that last year, to step out of my uniform, I went through an unexpected divorce and everything that I had planned for, everything that I thought I was going to do that, just went out the window. And here I was at rock bottom, going through an unexpected divorce, all the plans that I had of how I was going to live my life completely shattered, and I was disillusioned too, and I had to rebuild my life. And in rebuilding my life, this is where I said I became an accidental entrepreneur, because nowhere in my playbook did I say I was going to be an entrepreneur. I was going to be an entrepreneur, I was going to work nonprofit or maybe go into corporate, just kind of like this easy side thing that I was going to do while my spouse was going to go create this million dollar company and I was going to raise our kids. And that's not what happened.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah, wow. And for our listeners, I will put in the show notes a link to the episode that we did with and I can't remember his name, forgive me right now, but the head of the Soldier for Life program. I think it was back in season two and it's a great episode. And I've always told people that the Army has the best program for transitioning and it is that Soldier for Life program. The other services just don't compare. They do offer TAPS programs and help with transitioning to a certain extent, which is light years ahead of when I was in.
Larry Zilliox:When I was in, there was no help. They said oh, you're getting out, oh, goodbye, here's your ticket home. They weren't going to spend a dime on you because you were getting out. You were of no value to them. So I definitely applaud the Army for that program and I'm sure you were very instrumental in developing it and it has helped a lot of Army veterans and continues to help a lot of Army veterans. Talk a little bit about you find yourself now out. Your tribe is no longer with you. You're a veteran. Did you file any claims with the VA nonprofit?
Olivia Nunn:a major VSO and getting my claim through. So the literally the day that I became a civilian, my medical disability kicked in. So at least that part of my life went relatively smoothly. The rest of my life did not. I was, I was literally mentally checked out. When I say I hit rock bottom, I hit rock bottom. My mind was filled with darkness. I couldn't remember half the time what I was doing. Simple things like did I brush my teeth? Today I really hit rock bottom in many ways, and so at least I did that part right and I'm thankful for that.
Larry Zilliox:Wow. And so you're at that plateau where that part right and I'm thankful for that Wow. And so you're at that plateau where you get out. You're experiencing those problems. When does the idea about entrepreneurship, or you're going to kind of bootstrap your way out of that hole, in a sense, come to you, and what does that look like?
Olivia Nunn:So for me, my story and my journey for being an entrepreneur is the following as I'm trying to rebuild my life, a very good friend of mine that I had been working with while I was in the military Scott Davidson, who's a co-founder of Veterans Success Resource Group who I still work with right now I'm the chief marketing officer for that non-profit he called me up and he said hey, let's go do lunch. So we went and had lunch and he's like Olivia, tell me, tell me straight. I know things aren't going great, what's going on? And so I kind of bared it all out and I was like you know, this divorce isn't going great. I'm just not feeling all that great. And he we just had this heart to heart-heart conversation and he's like where's your LLC? And I kind of gave him this deer in the headlight, look, and I was like what? He's like? Hey, let me, I need you to kind of get your stuff together, I need you to create an LLC. And I was like what it's like? Because we got work to do, I got, I got work for you. And I just kind of sat there kind of dumbfounded and I and I kind of had this epiphany in that split second, and he reminded me of multiple conversations that had happened to me while I was at Soldier for Life, where people constantly told me Olivia, you need to create an LLC when you go out. As a PR specialist I consulted on behalf of the Army to companies all the time, on a daily basis, on the skill set that I had as a communications expert. And having this conversation with Scott, he just reminded me of who I was and my purpose and what I was capable of. So I left that lunch just kind of renewed with some sense of hope of hey, I can do this, I can have a life and no longer wallow in misery. And so a week later, born from that conversation, was Olivia Nunn Communications.
Olivia Nunn:I really still didn't jump gung-ho into entrepreneurship. My LLC was born but I really didn't know what I was doing just quite yet. Time kind of moves forward. I start picking up clients just little bit here and there hey, olivia, can you help me with this little small project? You know social media here, et cetera.
Olivia Nunn:I pick up a major client who's in the substance use space and they were looking for a communications expert, branding expert, because they want to grow in the military space and it was supposed to be a short contract. That short contract turned into a big contract. I ended up making more money with them than my daytime job as a defense contractor doing public affairs work in a skiff which I hated, by the way. So I kind of made the jump and said I could do this, working from home on my own time, and have time to do what I love, which is non-profit work and oh, by the way, my boss at work is not that cool. Uh, this is a no-brainer. So I jumped ship and went all in working for myself, and that really was where I said I was the accidental entrepreneur, where I went all in on myself. I started doubling down on myself and said I can do this, and I had a great ride for a little bit. And then the economy came in and my company just went flatline.
Olivia Nunn:And so it's been the story of I've done well and then I don't. I do well and then I don't. Story of I've done well and then I don't. I do well and then I don't. And those are the lessons that I'm learning as an entrepreneur of all the little things of banking and what do you do with your taxes or what you don't do with your taxes, and I've completely bootstrapped my company since day one.
Larry Zilliox:Well, for our listeners too. What the Colonel is describing as an LLC is Limited Liability Corporation, and it's used by contractors all over, so when a company hires you for a contract, they're paying your company instead of you directly a very common vehicle for consultants, especially in the Northern Virginia area, but that's what we're talking about there with an LLC. So what do you think is the number one barrier that keeps female veterans from starting their own companies?
Olivia Nunn:I would say access to funds. You know, I've got some friends that work in banking and they'll tell you that. I mean there's statistics that talk about that. The fastest growing part of entrepreneurship are women. In fact, women veterans are the fastest growing right now across the US, but they actually have the least amount of access to capital funds. And I think part of it is the following Part of it is the way we are as women.
Olivia Nunn:It's how we show up, it's how we think about ourselves. We tend to not apply for jobs if we don't think we check all the boxes. It's also how we doubt ourselves, or we think that we're not capable or confident in terms of being able to do something, whereas men is like, eh, 50, 60 percent, that's good enough, I'm going to roll with it. So I think part of it is that I think there's fear in having all your ducks in a row and then going after it. I think it's also exposure and having access to people that can get you into the right places at the right time.
Olivia Nunn:And I know for me, I'm such a visual learner and so when you're trying to build this portfolio of things, that you need to go after a grant or go in front of a board in order to compete for funds and they're asking you for this.
Olivia Nunn:You know portfolio of things that you need. Sometimes it's you have no idea what they're asking for and you're just kind of looking at dumbfoundedly, going wait, you want a year's worth of XYZ and you're like that sounds like great to me. You know how do you get those things together? So I think it's a few of those things all mixed into one, as you're trying to do those things at the same time run your company and you're trying to make money all at the same time and then somewhere along the way, as a business owner, you're going to hit this point where you need to hire somebody because you are at that point you need to. You're going to hit this point where you need to hire somebody because you are at that point you need to, but you're right at that breaking point where hiring somebody is going to break you at the same time. So it's like that dog chasing its own tail.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah, it's a hard decision actually. Plus, you're also relinquishing some control and you know starting a business is hard for everyone. I really think that mentorship is huge for veterans, other veterans who have been down that path, and for female veterans. I just don't think that there's the same level of mentorship available out there. What would you say is the best way for a female veteran to find a mentor?
Olivia Nunn:I completely agree with what you say in terms of mentorship. It's mentorship not just in business. I think it's mentorship in life. It's finding somebody that you resonate with. You've got to ask and then at the same time it's making that time with that person and that person making time with you. And especially here in DC. The word busy is part of our vocabulary and I think the word busy gets so stuck in our every single day vernacular that it gets in the way of life, everything from our business to how we show up in our family life, to our kids, to our community. And I think that affects even how you approach mentorship, whether you're a mentor or a mentee. And then I think there's a bit of ego too.
Larry Zilliox:Right.
Olivia Nunn:That maybe you might think that I don't need a mentor. So I think you've got to check your ego at the door and say you know I need a mentor. But I think the other got to check your ego at the door and say you know I need a mentor. But I think the other part, especially for women, it's the uncomfortableness sometimes in finding or talking to a male Because there's a lack of representation in women that are out there, that are successful, that can potentially show the ropes to another woman.
Larry Zilliox:So I think it's important that female veterans who are looking at trying to start their own company. I think what you just said is important in that you can't not find a mentor just because you can't find a female veteran mentor. So if you can find a mentor who's a male veteran or a male who's in the same business I mean exact same business can walk you through just about anything, I think you actually absolutely have to jump at that. You can't say, well, I want a female, so I'm just going to pass that by as you network in your community through business associations, things like that, and while a female veteran mentor might be good, but if they don't know anything about your business, then that might not work out as well either. And nobody says you can't have more than one, so you could have a guy help you on the business standpoint, but then have a female veteran mentor through life who's walked that path ahead of you.
Larry Zilliox:I often think you know female veterans almost in every aspect, are just underrepresented, whether it's healthcare, mental health issues and in business as well. There is plenty of business out there for veteran female-owned companies, especially in the northern Virginia area, if you can find somebody with contracting experience and you have skills that transferred to the civilian community. I mean, there's business out there and I'm just afraid that some of our female veterans aren't thinking through and saying, okay, this is what I did and how does that translate to the civilian community? And if you can get in as a contractor for some of these agencies, you'll make a tremendous amount of money. What do you think is the best way for a female veteran to get an understanding of how their skills from the military transfer to the civilian community?
Olivia Nunn:I'm a big advocate as a veteran to utilize the resources that are out there. There are a plethora of nonprofits that we can access as veterans for free. Ivmf is a great one out of Syracuse that has a lot of resources that help you as a veteran to start your own business.
Larry Zilliox:Free training too.
Olivia Nunn:Free training, right? An example off the top of my head, like if you wanted to get your project management right. They provide all the coursework and the assistance to get you through project management for free. The only thing you have to do is that you would pay for the actual exam at the end, and it's not a whole lot for the exam but the coursework. If you were to pay for the coursework, that's a few thousand dollars but you were getting that for free. That's just an example. And they do the same if you are trying to go through coursework to understand how to become an entrepreneur. That's IVMF.
Olivia Nunn:There's another one based out of Utah, that my good friend, jason VanCamp, and you know he does. You know there is a wait list for that, but again, there's a wait list because it is a great course. But if that's what you want to pursue, you know, chase that and there's more that's out there. And then, if you're talking about mentorship, right, mill mentor. That's a free online mentorship that you can sign up for. Peter Klein, it is a co-founder of that sign up, right, you could.
Olivia Nunn:There's plenty of mentors that are on there that you could find. I happen to be one of the mentors that are on there. If you want to talk about communications or transition, you mean, I'm just one of many mentors that are on there. If you want to talk about communications or transition, I mean, I'm just one of many mentors that are on there. So utilize these resources that are available to you as a veteran, access them and take advantage of that and chase it right. It's the same as what we used to say in Soldier for Life in terms of your transition you have to be an active member of your transition to be successful. You can't have the attitude of I'm just going to sit here and just let it come to me. See, what happens.
Olivia Nunn:Absolutely. You cannot take it that way, right? You have to get up and chase it. And here's the other part and I've noticed this, and if anyone happens to follow me on social media, is that age, your gender and where you come from shouldn't stop you. Chase your dreams and don't let fear stop you. I've always wanted to fly and it's something I finally decided to do and I had a great time doing it.
Olivia Nunn:I've always wondered what would it be like to do a bodybuilding competition, and I finally did that. You know, I'm 47 years old and the parts of me feel super old, with all the injuries that I have, and then the other parts of me is like I've got so many more years to live, and so I want to check off this list of things that I want to achieve or do in my life. You know, jumping out of a perfectly working airplane not military style, right? You know that's on my list too. So if you have a thought or this, I wonder can I do this? Chase it.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah, for sure. There's no barriers. There's only the barriers that you put up for yourself, really. And well, can't thank you enough for coming out today and talking to us about this is just great that there's so much out there. When you talk about resources, the hardest part is trying to find them actually and know that they're out there. Moa is another organization that will help Military Officers Association of America. So, you know, reach out, definitely reach out and find them. Join these veteran service organizations in your community. You know, join the American Legion, join the VFW. Yeah, they're full of old guys, but a lot of times they're full of old guys who had companies and ran companies and who are happy to answer questions and help you out. So, you know, think of all the different ways that you could find the help that you need and reach out. Don't build barriers for yourself.
Olivia Nunn:Absolutely. I mean MOA. You know, you mentioned them. I used to podcast for MOA. They're a great organization and I don't want people to think that. Well, he said it's Military Officers Association. That's a big, you know myth. You don't have to be an officer to be part of that organization. They are a lobbying organization on behalf of the military right. They're the ones that go on to Capitol Hill to fight for our benefits. You know another one American Corporate Company, acp right Another great mentorship organization. Oh, by the way, they're going to help you get jobs Recruit Military. That's another great organization. If you're on the job market, there's so many great organizations. And if you don't know where to start, again you know, get online, find somebody who's been around, who knows these resources, and just hey, do you got a minute? Can you help me find an organization that could potentially point me in the direction of XYZ?
Larry Zilliox:And don't overlook state organizations that there are agencies of like economic development and they have entire business plans so that if you go to them and say I want to open up a business that sells honey, they very often will have everything you need to open that business in. That state Says you got to get this permit, you got to do this, you got to file for that, and so all that is out there franchises. Sometimes it can be too much, but there's a tremendous amount of resources out there that we really don't want you to overlook. So, Colonel, thank you for sitting down with us and talking today. It's been wonderful.
Olivia Nunn:No, thank you for the chance to sit down and have this conversation and if anybody wants to connect with me, I am online. You can find me on Facebook, you can find me on Instagram and on LinkedIn. I believe that you should have some social presence and I'm happy to connect with anyone.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah, we'll have the webpage linked in the show notes so you can go there and reach out if you have any questions. So thank you so much and, for our listeners, we'll have another episode next Monday morning at 0500. You can find us on all the major podcast platforms. We're on YouTube and Wreaths Across America Radio. Thanks for listening.
