Welcome Home - A Podcast for Veterans, About Veterans, By Veterans
Welcome Home is a Willing Warriors and the Warrior Retreat at Bull Run project. The program highlights activities at the Warrior Retreat and issues impacting all Veterans. For questions or feedback, please email us at podcast@willingwarriors.org.
Welcome Home - A Podcast for Veterans, About Veterans, By Veterans
Pioneering the Skies: The Story of One of the First Air Force Female Flight Engineers
The sky was never meant to be a boundary—especially for those determined enough to break through it. Chef Larry welcomes longtime friend Lois Hobby, whose remarkable 33-year military career broke barriers as one of the first two USAF active-duty female flight engineers on the C-141 Starlifter transport aircraft.
When a sergeant flatly told her, "Women will never fly on the C-141," Hobby didn't accept defeat. Instead, that dismissal became the catalyst for her persistence. Through repeated application rejections, bureaucratic roadblocks, and institutional resistance, she fought her way into the aviation world. From her beginnings as a vehicle operator and ramp driver to accumulating thousands of flight hours monitoring complex aircraft systems at 30,000 feet, Hobby's journey illuminates the challenges women faced entering military aviation in the 1970s and beyond.
Hobby's candid reflections reveal both the technical demands of being a flight engineer and the cultural barriers she navigated daily. "Do your crying in the latrine," she advises, sharing how maintaining absolute professionalism was essential in an environment where any perceived weakness could be exploited. From crew chiefs who couldn't believe she was the engineer to being mistaken as another crew member's wife, her experiences provide a window into changing perceptions about women's capabilities in previously male-dominated fields.
Beyond her professional achievements, the conversation weaves in personal memories between two friends whose paths crossed repeatedly during military service on Guam, creating a warm narrative that balances the serious nature of breaking barriers with the camaraderie that defined military life. Whether you're interested in aviation history, women pioneers, or military culture, Lois Hobby's story demonstrates how determination and excellence can ultimately triumph over prejudice and doubt.
Good morning. I'm your host, Larry Zilliox, Director of Culinary Services here at the Warrior Retreat at Bull Run, and this week our guest is Lois Hobby. She's a dear, dear friend of mine who I've known for, I believe, 45 years. She and I met when I was stationed on Guam and she would fly through and every once in a while touch down and visit us. And she was one of the first of two active duty flight engineers female flight engineers on the C-141 transport aircraft. So I asked her to join me and to talk a little bit about what that was like to be sort of a pioneer, to be one of the first in pretty much an all-male career field. So, lois, welcome to the podcast.
Lois Hobby:Thank you, Larry. It's going to be fun being here, I think.
Larry Zilliox:So do you realize that the first time we met, I believe, was 1979, which was 45 years ago? Believe was 1979, which was 45 years ago I joined.
Lois Hobby:I'm from Montana, so I joined delayed enlistment October 9th 1973. And I was active duty January 9th 1974.
Larry Zilliox:And what did you do before you flew in the 141s?
Lois Hobby:I was a vehicle operator and dispatcher, which led me to being a kilo tractor driver on the flight line at an Air Force base. Flight line at an Air Force base. And I did for six, eight months and all of a sudden the transportation squad at Norton said hey, she's not supposed to be in the aid shop, it's air ground equipment, she's supposed to be in transportation. So I was in the transportation squadron and became a taxi driver, more or less.
Larry Zilliox:Wow. And so the chance comes up for you to go to school to be a 141 flight engineer. What was that like?
Lois Hobby:Well, that's a really complicated story because I was a crew bus driver, if you will. I picked up crews on the flight line and took them to their squadrons after their aircraft landed and at that time the females in the aviation career field were female pilots and I wanted to fly. So I went to our career ops. You know the career ops. Do you remember where you would go talk to personnel and talk about could I cross-train to something else? And I remember this so specifically. I went in to talk to them and I said I want to be a loadmaster, I was going to start out to be a loadmaster and the sergeant that I was talking to, he got up from his desk and he walked over and looked out the window like he was looking at the future and he said women will never fly on the c-1-1. Okay, thank you for your just, which I just only put like a burr under my saddle. Yeah, so I had to saddle. So I had to.
Lois Hobby:By this time I had become friends with people the 730th at the time, which is the reservist and they told me active duty couldn't help me, not even with getting a physical if I was qualified to be an aviator, and the reservists said, oh sure, we can get you a physical. I thought, why would I pursue this if I'm not physically capable to fly? And through the reservists who were friends, they kind of got me a musical which I qualified for. And then I began writing letters to my congressman and you know, trying to get some sort of attention to get into a school. And it's really very complicated because I had taken a course, I was getting ready to get out of the Air Force, because I thought if I can't fly there's really no reason to stay in any longer. And going through this course it was a course to help you. Help you, larry, do you remember the test we took that said that helps us in jobs? When we first got in, where you took scores for your general, your electric, your mechanical and your administrative skills. Yeah, so I was taking this little course to retake that test and get better scores so that my career opportunities would be better. And while I was in that class I met three crew members that were already loadmasters.
Lois Hobby:Some time passed and when I was starting to apply to be a loadmaster in the Air Force, I would apply and my application would be rejected. And then I had to wait a period of time and then I'd apply again and my application was rejected. And then one day I just happened to be home and I got a phone call from one of those gentlemen that I had met and he told me. He said, lois, are you still interested in flying? And I said, oh, absolutely, he goes. Would you like to be a flight engineer? And I said, well, I said there's a problem. Well, I said there's a problem. I said if I apply for a flight engineer and get rejected, my cross-training application is in process, which eliminates me from the loadmaster career field for when it opens up to be for women, and I would miss it. He goes. Well, let me make a phone call. And so he did. He got back to me I don't know the next day and he said I just I called Scott Air Force Base and I told him who you were.
Lois Hobby:And they said oh, we know her name because we have been receiving her applications to fly. And we looked at her AQE that's what it was, the AQE scores. And they said if she applies to be a flight engineer, we can almost positively say she's accepted because her scores are high enough. Most positively say she's accepted because her scores are high enough, and so just that little wham. I applied to be a flight engineer as opposed to being a loadmaster, and I was accepted into the female test program for flight engineers.
Larry Zilliox:So at this point I think it might be beneficial to explain to our listeners what is a flight engineer on a C-141 Starlifter cargo plane fly.
Lois Hobby:We also accomplished the takeoff data, supplied that for the pilots, and then during flight we monitored all the systems the hydraulics, the fuel, the electrics at our panel and then at the end of the flight we would run the checklist during flight, and that was our job was to make sure that the aircraft was mechanically fit to fly and to keep it safe while it was, you know, in flight.
Larry Zilliox:Right, right Monitor everything. Right, right Monitor everything. So you go through the course, you're certified newly minted, one of the first two active duty female flight engineers, and you get assigned to Norton or Travis.
Lois Hobby:No, back to Norton. They sent us back pretty much to our home base.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah, and you flew out of Norton the whole time.
Lois Hobby:Well, my career kind of spanned all the. I was active duty for 10 years and then when I got off active duty I became a reservist. And I was a reservist for 10 years and then my civilian life took me to Memphis and to FedEx and for five years I commuted back from Memphis to San Bernardino. And when Memphis got the C-141, I kept thinking, well, do I want to commute 1,100 miles or do I go one block down the street? And the Memphis Air Guard was willing to take me.
Larry Zilliox:They were desperate. Yeah, they were desperate for people.
Lois Hobby:And I think they probably did some research. I think they probably did some research. You know, they talked to people that I knew and I was recommended as a good flight engineer and they wouldn't be sorry to have me. So I was in the Memphis Air Guard for about 14 years and then I retired with 33 years.
Larry Zilliox:Wow.
Lois Hobby:Wow. And so you guys used to run this flight out of California that would hit Hawaii, then Guam and, I think, the Philippines, and then turn around and come right back. Well, we went to Yokota, kadena and Yokota as well. We were moving the Stars and Stripes. It was called the 807. Okay, yeah, I remember moving the Stars and Stripes. It was called the 807. Okay, yeah, I remember, and our primary, our primary cargo was the Stars and Stripes.
Larry Zilliox:To get that out to the Air Force personnel for morale, really, yeah, and so we met, because when you guys ran that route, you basically flew into Hawaii and you stayed overnight. You flew into Guam and you stayed overnight and you just sort of hopped through and they had this circuit of C-141s that were just like always in route out and always coming back with stuff, and so that's how we met, is you? I guess the correct terminology would be we met when we and you were relaxing at the NCO club.
Lois Hobby:I was going to say I was basically dropped at your feet.
Larry Zilliox:Yes, I do remember that. So, yes, you were dancing and some fool, I don't know, he, spun you around or something and just right into our table and it's like whoa, okay, hello.
Lois Hobby:He dropped me right. It was a dip and he dropped me on the ground and I'm laying there with my hand in the air and there you were at the table and I was at your feet.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah, yep, and I'm sure we just act like that's okay, pretty normal for the nco club. Yeah, wow, yeah, I don't know who was there that night. It was probably me and peg and johnny and um a very large group. Yeah, yeah, pretty much Probably one of our three days off. We were there at the club pretty much every night.
Lois Hobby:Yeah, mongolian barbecue night.
Larry Zilliox:Yes, okay, yeah, that that turned out to be a blessing for us, because we always look forward to when you are coming in and everybody, everybody's like what's Lois's schedule? Is she coming? When is she going to be here? Is she going to be here when we're off, or do we have to work? It was, it was hard, just trying to keep track of you when you were coming in and coming and look for boys and girls. This was before the internet, so very often we'd just be puzzled and then we'd get word that Lois had landed because she would call over to CSC or try to find us.
Lois Hobby:Just pop up. Yes, knock on your door, that's it.
Larry Zilliox:And boy we had a lot of fun. I'm curious in 79, they introduced the second model of the C-141 line, which was the B model, and it was sort of a stretch, it was a longer C-141. But that's when they started painting them, these weird colors Like some were all gray. The old ones, the very first ones, were sort of gray on the bottom and white on the top. But then they started painting these things like camouflage and we called them lizards. Right, were you flying those? I don't remember.
Lois Hobby:I had about 1,000 hours on the C-141A and then I had a couple of thousand on the B and then a couple of more thousand on the C. So yeah, the C model. They added more glass cockpit stuff. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, the lizard.
Lois Hobby:I think what they were doing were was painting the aircraft to match the area of responsibility that we were flying into okay so you have your desert camouflage for, say, uh, the 9-1, 9-11 series, because a lot of that was in Southeast Asia, and then the green was more I don't even know where.
Larry Zilliox:But yeah, they paint the aircraft to match the area of responsibility that the aircraft mostly flies into, right, yeah, it was just weird to see the first one come in and we weren't expecting that and all of a sudden it just was a big camouflage plane which you'd never seen anything quite like that before. What was it like for you to be one of the first female flight engineers in a predominantly male career field, and was there pushback on that? I mean, flight crews tend to be pretty close. What was it like when you showed up for work?
Lois Hobby:Well, the first. I can't tell you for how long, but I can remember so many times the flight engineer at the end of the flight, fills out the forms, the aircraft forms which reports if there's a maintenance problem with the aircraft. You fill out the forms and you write it up, chief, when you land on the ground and then the crew chief will come in and talk to the flight engineer and say I don't understand this write up, or you know that conversation. And so many times I'd be on the flight deck sitting in the engineer seat, you know closing, closing up, gathering my books and things and putting them in my book bag, and the crew chief would pop up and he goes where's the flight engineer? And I go me.
Larry Zilliox:I'm sitting right here on the flight did he think you were the stewardess or something? What the?
Lois Hobby:hell, I don't know, I don't know flight engineer where's the flight engineer? So I got a lot of that. It was for me. I had this thing. I always said do your crying in the latrine Because if they saw a weak spot, they would go for that like you wouldn't believe, for that like you wouldn't believe. So you never, never, show weakness, or you?
Larry Zilliox:were going to get your juggler bit, you think? I mean, obviously the career field is wide open now, um, for female service members, that load master, of course, and, uh, crew chief chiefs and just about anything on the flight line. Really Right, you know? When did you retire?
Lois Hobby:I retired in 2003.
Larry Zilliox:So you saw the change.
Lois Hobby:Oh, actually I'm sorry, 2006.
Larry Zilliox:So you saw the change. I mean it had changed a tremendous amount since the first time you took that class and you boarded a 141.
Lois Hobby:Oh yeah, it was well, it was nice to see, but I tell you it was hard work, for I would run into women loadmasters, especially from different parts of the Air Force.
Lois Hobby:I'd run into them somewhere out in the desert, basically, and they would have their flight zipped all the way down. You know, we wore t-shirts underneath and I always told them you know, zip up that flight suit. There's an image that you have to present or you know, whatever your image is that you presented, you were treated per that image. For me, I was always in the correct uniform and tried to be professional so that they would treat me as a professional versus you know, some gal that just happened to be available right now and, sad to say, that's the way it was. In the early days, I can remember being at Clark Air Base and the crew had got alerted and we were going to the cafeteria for breakfast and one of my fellow crew members, a loadmaster, was in front of me and we were sliding our breakfast along and the gout, the register, charged him for his meal and my meal.
Larry Zilliox:He brought your wife along on the trip. That's nice, that's nice.
Lois Hobby:Yeah, that's what basically we got to the table. I said hey, did you think your breakfast was a little expensive today? And he goes yeah, I said, well, you paid for my breakfast because they thought we were together as a couple. I guess that is hysterical. Yeah, that's all I mean really, because not only were we changing the perceptions of the Air Force in America, we were changing the perception of people all over the world.
Larry Zilliox:Sure.
Lois Hobby:Yeah, and so it was. It was difficult at times but, like I said, just do your crying in the latrine and don't let the uppers see. You have a weakness yeah, yeah, for sure.
Larry Zilliox:Well, we never thought of you like that. We always thought she's crazy, oh man oh geez yeah, that was fun. I don't think we need to tell any stories about our time in Guam.
Lois Hobby:Probably not.
Larry Zilliox:No, but suffice to say it was a lot of fun. Of course you know I talk to a lot of guys and your name always comes up. What's Lois? Doing, oh my gosh, what's Lois doing?
Lois Hobby:Can we talk about the Mars message?
Larry Zilliox:You're going to have to refresh my memory. As I get older, these things tend to escape me.
Lois Hobby:Well, in the beginning, in our first couple of years, you communicated with people and with me via Mars.
Larry Zilliox:Okay, Do you remember? I sort of do. Yes, For our listeners, Mars is the military amateur radio station and basically, again for our listeners, this was when people needed to get messages to service members overseas. They would use ham radio operators and they had this whole network to pass messages to Mars stations around the world and usually associated with military installations, and it's usually a message like we regret to inform you that Uncle Billy passed away or we need you to come home, or something like that. It was usually not good news, but I remember I might have abused the systems somewhat, but you seem to have a better memory than I do.
Lois Hobby:I can tell you exactly what the message is. I'll probably be thinking of it on my deathbed. It was late at night when I got the phone call and the operator who talked to me, because he was much removed from you.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah.
Lois Hobby:And the message was tonight there's going to be a jailbreak. The boys are back in town.
Larry Zilliox:I don't know we had been somewhere and I said we got to let Lois know we're back In case she has a flight out. Oh, yeah, Okay. Well, that probably. I'm sure the guy was like what kind of message is this?
Lois Hobby:That's exactly what he said to me. He says I don't know what this means, but and then he said tonight there's going to be a jailbreak, the boys are back in town. And I said I know exactly what that means.
Larry Zilliox:Well, it's part of a Thin Lizzy song, but yeah, okay.
Lois Hobby:Yes, it is.
Larry Zilliox:Well, yeah, it was uh times it was different that back then. Well, let's just say that, yes, it was. So that was before the internet. It was all different really. Um well, listen, I uh, I just wanted to thank you for coming on and talking and sort of telling us about your amazing career. I mean, you were a pioneer, you were a trendsetter, you were there at the beginning, when this plane was not very old. Back then. I mean, his first ones rolled out, I think in 65.
Lois Hobby:But then, but you, Well, you know, larry, they said you gotta be tough to fly the heavies.
Larry Zilliox:That's right, that's right. And look those were, those were sketchy planes, I always thought. But I didn't fly in many of them, just a few. And uh, I remember one flight I took I, I, I do remember this. I got on board and I was, we were probably an hour into flight.
Larry Zilliox:I think I was going to Hawaii and uh, or I might've been coming back to Guam and I said to the, the crew chief or the load master, somebody was there. We started talking and I said uh, I said yeah, yeah, you do you ever fly with with Lois? And he goes, yeah, lois, yeah, of course, yeah. And uh, he got on the, the intercom there, he put his headset on and he started talking. Next thing, you know, the pilots wanted me to come up and I got to sit in the jump seat for most of the flight. They, they all knew you. I mean that was my hook. I mean, wow, apparently they had. They had flown, flown with you before and had a great time. Because you know, know when, when that plane is sitting there on the runway or on the taxiway or the ramp because it's not working, there's nothing to do but come visit us and go to the club.
Lois Hobby:So yeah, the best part of flying gua and telephone falls yes yeah, that's a beautiful island.
Larry Zilliox:It really was, and we had a lot of fun there, that's for sure. Well, so, listen, lois, thanks so much. I really appreciate you taking the time to sit down with us and tell us about your amazing career.
Lois Hobby:Thank you for having me, Larry. It's great to talk to you.
Larry Zilliox:Yeah, for sure. Well, listeners, you'll find us on all the major podcast platforms. We're on YouTube and Wreaths Across America. We'll have another episode next Monday morning at 0500. Until then, thanks for listening.
