9. Sorry, Not Sorry: Stop Undermining Your Credibility in the Workplace

Women working in male-dominated industries must already work hard to earn the respect of their male colleagues. To show that their ideas have merit. To prove they are worthy of a seat at the table.

Still, there are a number of ways in which high-powered, intelligent and supremely qualified women are undermining their credibility in the workplace. That makes it doubly hard to earn the respect we deserve.

In today's episode, I'm discussing the top ways women are unwittingly undermining their own credibility in the workplace, and how to stop compromising our power.

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Transcript

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This topic is near and dear to my heart. And I think it's because for so long, I I've worked in male dominated. Industries and cultures. And the idea that women. Need to speak up for themselves. And quit undermining their credibility in the workplace. It's something we don't talk about enough. So we're going to spend a little time today talking about. The number one thing, and there's actually more than one. But how you can stop undermining your credibility in the workplace. Welcome to the School of Midlife podcast. I'm Laurie Reynoldson, former award-winning attorney turned high performance coach for midlife women. I designed this podcast is your go-to place for weekly midlife inspiration, where I'll be sharing, inspiring stories, providing step-by-step actionable coaching and introducing you to some incredible women who are absolutely crushing it at the midlife game. And you'd better believe we'll also be having candid conversations about mid-life relationships, career moves, money, menopause, and so much more. So take out your reading glasses and notebooks. My friends, because the School of Midlife is in session. Hey there. Welcome back to the school of midlife podcast. I am so excited that you're here today. We are talking about ways in which women undermine their credibility. In the workplace. I know that there are plenty of ways that Men discount, the contributions of women in the workplace. I will say it's gotten better over the years because we're more attuned to it. We're more familiar with it. Men are more accustomed to seeing high powered high achieving women in the workplace. But it wasn't that long ago that that wasn't the case. I mean, we're still underpaid. 78 cents on the dollar, um, which is not acceptable. Just recently, actually The number of women CEOs. Has now. Exceeded the number of men name John. Who are CEOs. So think about that. There were more men named John who are CEOs. Then women, but finally. That is even. It wasn't that long ago though. In fact, when I first started my career as an attorney, I remember a male partner. That I was working a case with, cause I started in a litigation firm and I was headed to court to cover a very routine. Just dumb, stupid little motion. I mean, if it, if it would have been a big motion that anybody cared about, they would've sent. A male, either senior associate. Or junior partner, they would not have sent me. So this was kind of a throw away hearing. I was wearing a very nice pantsuit that day. I had seen the partner earlier in the day and the hearing was in the afternoon. He. Pulled me aside and told me that I needed to go home and change into a skirt. Because no one would take a woman seriously. If she was not dressed appropriately for court. Now bear in mind. I had a very. Smart suit. I mean, I looked great. But I looked different than how this older gentlemen partner thought a young female associate attorney should look. And he. Told me, I needed to go home and change into my skirt. And because I. Didn't know how to respond. I did it. Like what home? And I put a skirt on. And I came back and I went to the hearing, which took maybe five minutes. And, um, and then we were done for the day. So I definitely wasn't sticking up for myself or doing anything to underscore my credibility. With that partner at that time, all I was doing was what I was asked to do. Here's another example. I had another experience. At near the end of my legal career, where a male partner in the firm. Who was new to the firm. he had just joined, uh, the partnership from another firm where he had been partner. And he was bringing his secretary round to introduce to all of the attorneys in the office. And he had a map in his hand. Because he didn't really know where any of us sat and frankly, Uh, he, he didn't really spend the time to get to know the attorneys at the new firm. He just, he kind of had this map in his hand, he looked at the map. He looked at my name on the door. Figured out who I was. And, and I had been in a ton of meetings with this guy. Because I was leading the real estate business for the firm. And with the, the files that he was bringing over, he needed a lot of real estate support. So for several weeks before this, I had been in meeting after meeting, after meeting with him. But he sees my name on the door. He locates me on the map. And he introduces me to a secretary and he says, this is Laurie. The only reason she's important to us. The only reason you need to remember her name. Is because her husband, Mike is a senior vice president with a company. That he wanted to do business with. Wow. I mean, I've been called a lot of things over my career. But never, the only reason that I am important to somebody is because of who I'm married to. And what that person could potentially bring in. And as far as revenue is concerned to this, this male partner. I think it stung. Even more. Because. I was, I was adding so much value to him. I was able to jump in and begin servicing the clients that he was transferring to the firm. Immediately. I knew exactly what I was supposed to do. I knew my way around a transaction. I. was the perfect, we'll call it man for the job. But. He just assumed that. I didn't bring anything to the table because I'm a woman. I have been asked to get coffee in meetings to take notes and don't get me wrong. I'm not above doing those things. I just take a certain amount of offense when those same requests aren't made of the guys in the room. That just because there's a woman in the room she's going to grab coffee or make sure that the water pitchers are refilled, or if someone needs to take notes, then that's, that's really a secretarial position. And that's below a man to do. So with that back ground in place. I want to talk about how we are already. Behind when it comes to advocating for ourselves. At work. As women. By and large, we wait until the perfect opportunities present themselves. And what I mean by that is we over prepare for meetings or presentations because we don't want to look stupid. We don't want to sound dumb. So, if you look at any meeting, I would. Bet. That any woman in that meeting, even though she might not think she, she knows everything that she needs to know in the meeting. She sure as hell knows more. Then the guys who feel like they've got it all in the bag that they know exactly what is going on. And they, they don't necessarily prepare for the meeting or if they do, they just prepare enough. Whereas the women over prepare because they don't want to be asked a question that they don't know the answer to. They don't want to be put on the spot or asked to present something. Without thinking of every single angle that they could be asked about. They, they just, they spend all this time. Over-preparing. Think about this way. Women who are applying for jobs, say the job description says. Um, MBA preferred eight to 10 years experience in a management role. Proven track record of success experience leading people fluent in Spanish. On and on. Harvard Business Review. And I'm sure you have heard this before, because it's been around a lot, but Harvard Business Review reports that men will apply for that job. When they meet only 60% of the qualifications. So MBA eight to 10 years of experience, proven track record of success experience leading people fluent in Spanish. They're going to look at that and say, well, I took Spanish in high school. Um, I don't quite have my MBA yet, but maybe I graduated with an undergrad in business school and I took one class over the summer. Towards, uh, in, in the master's college or in the graduate school. Eight to 10 years uh, experience in a management role, you know, I've got probably we'll call it five years of experience in a management role. And, um, a proven track record of success. Sure. I've got that. Experienced leading people. Yep. I've had an assistant that whole time. So yes. Check, check, check. Women on the other hand will only apply for that position. if they meet a hundred percent of the qualifications, If they are 100% qualified. That they, they have the MBA. They have the 80 10 years of experience in a management role. They have a proven track record of success. They have experienced leading people and they're fluent and Spanish. Can we agree that to be able to check every single box? That's a really high bar. So it's no wonder. That as women, we tend to sit back a little bit. We defer. Opinions we defer action because we don't think we're qualified. And then of course. When we are successful. We have a tendency to deflect attention. Here's what I mean by that. If we are successful on a project, say. We. Brush it off as. Oh, it's because of the team. I mean. I couldn't have done this without my team. Absolutely applaud the efforts of your team. I get that let's, let's definitely give credit where credit is due. But this idea that you're only successful because of the team that you couldn't have gotten there without them. We need to. Also be advocating for ourselves instead of deflecting attention. Another way we do this as, oh, I just got lucky. I was in the right place at the right time. Or we assume that our work will speak for itself. You know, the whole, if I do good work, people will notice. I don't want it to seem like I'm bragging. So I'm just going to let the work speak for itself. How often do we do that? Where. We are successful. But instead of stepping into the spotlight or instead of taking credit for. all the work and the time that we have put into the project or the presentation or the meeting or landing the client. We give. The success away. It happens all the freaking time in every industry in offices. All across the country. It happens all the time. But there are a couple of ways that we can start advocating for ourselves. And that's what I want to spend the rest of today's episode. Discussing. I want to talk about the three ways that as women. We're undermining our credibility in the workplace. And let me just start by saying I can easily recognize all of these. Because I'm guilty of all of them at one point or another. I, I can spot them. I know about them. Because I was them. I still struggle with some of these from time to time. I'm, I'm getting much better, but I think until you recognize that these can potentially be a problem. You don't. Understand the effect they might be having on your career. So three things that. Undermine your credibility in the workplace. Number one. You don't speak up. You allow everyone in the room to speak first. And you just sit back and listen. And there's a fine line between listening. So that you can respond. So that you can answer with a well thought out response. And listening just to listen. That you don't want to speak up at all. Because you're afraid you're going to be judged or your concerned that you might sound. Silly or. Uninformed. So we get stuck in this listening position where we don't feel confident enough in ourselves to speak up. Or. We don't take a seat at the table. Literally. Walk into a conference room. It's an empty conference room. There are eight seats around the table. You look at the meeting request. You realize that there are 12 people invited to the meeting and you count the seats. There are eight seats. So instead of taking a seat. At the table. You take a seat in the back of the room. Or in the row. Just behind where people will be seated at the table. And to that I say, You have been invited to the meeting. You're the first in the room. You've earned a seat at the table. Take it. And then once we have that seat at the table, once we sit there, Sometimes we do this thing. Defer, defer, defer, and we hope. Someone else in the room. Can. Read our mind, almost that they will be the person to bring up the thing that we're thinking, because. Maybe we don't have a completely fleshed out in our mind and we're not exactly sure how it's going to land. So we're just going to wait until someone else brings it up. We don't want to speak up. So we'll just sit there and wait. And if I'm honest, I have been guilty of this for most of my career. I have become almost well. Let's call it the queen of the post-meeting conversation. I build alliances like they do on the show survivor. Where. I will essentially chair the meeting after the meeting with a smaller group. For some reason, I feel more comfortable explaining my thoughts and opinions to a smaller group. Usually a hand selected group that I feel is very safe. And I will debrief about the meeting. What I think should have been said. Uh, other ideas or ways that we could have moved the issue forward. And it's like, I'm building this Alliance for the next meeting so that when we go to the next meeting, I, I almost hope someone else brings it up. Of course, I want them to give me credit. I want them to acknowledge that. It was my idea, or I was behind. Especially if, if they think it's a good idea, I want the credit. But I have sometimes been slow to voice my own opinion or speak up. And I know I'm not alone. To counter my tendency to sit back and defer. Input feedback, voicing my opinion. I have to make sure I speak early in the meeting. It doesn't have to be anything profound, but it's just this kind of ice breaker. And once I voice my opinion, once I hear myself speaking out loud, I know this sounds silly, but if I can speak up early in the meeting, Then I'm fine. Then I don't fall back on that tendency to defer. To be quiet to just sit and listen. And that has helped me tremendously. In. Actively participating in the meeting instead of sitting back and allowing the meeting to happen around me. The second way. Women undermine their credibility at work. Is. By using the term. I'm sorry. As an automatic response to anything. Amy Poehler has this beautiful quote that I love. she said it takes years as a woman to unlearn what you've been taught to be sorry about. I'm going to say that again. It takes years as a woman to unlearn what you've been taught to be sorry about. Because as women. We are quick apologists. We are raised. To keep the peace in the family. We're conditioned to make things easier for everyone around us. Which means. A lot of the times, I'm sorry. Just becomes this automatic response. It's almost like a filler word, almost like a crutch phrase. We say it all the time. Several weeks ago, I passed a woman walking down the street. Um, I think she was probably a couple of years older than me. Although she could have also been a couple of years younger than me. I'm I'm officially at that age now where I'm surprised a lot of the times to figure out that I'm older than many of the people I think are older than me. Anyone else? In that camp. But I could tell by the way that. When I saw this woman and the way she carried herself, she was a little uncomfortable with herself. She could certainly use a bit of a confidence boost. She was a little overweight. She was wearing Capri length, bleached denim jeans. She had an oversize floral shirt on. And a hairstyle that she'd probably had for quite a while. It was kind of the shorter on the one side, a little longer on the other. Um, She looked very, if you were going to describe a Karen in a meme and I hate those kind of memes, but that's, that's what she reminded me of. Karen. Capri length, bleached denim jeans, oversights, floral shirt, asymmetrical hairstyle. And she's walking towards me on the street and we met eyes and I smiled at her and said, good morning. And she smiled with the kindest, most pleasant smile back. But then diverted her eyes kind of slightly downcast. And muttered. I'm sorry. And it took me aback because. What did she mean by I'm sorry. I had, I had said good morning. I'm I'm sorry for what? For sharing a sidewalk. I mean, we were on a public sidewalk. She was walking towards me there. There was probably, I don't know. Eight feet. Between us there. Maybe not eight V but six at least. There was plenty of space for both of us. It wasn't like she was running into me or she bumped me or anything. And it just, it struck me as why is I am sorry? Our automatic response. And my guess is she has been responding to. People like that her entire life. And it, it happens at work too. I Was rounding a corner in the office. and a male colleague who was talking on the phone and looking back over his shoulder. Not watching where he's walking at all, but I'm coming around the corner and he ran into me like ran square into me. And my response was. I'm sorry. But, oh God. Why don't we do that? Or is it just me? I, and I don't think it is, but I'm sorry, is this. This automatic response that we have just like when someone asks you how you're doing and you throw out fine. As women, we tend to apologize for things. Even when they're not our fault. We apologize when we've done. Absolutely nothing wrong. And we get in this mode where we apologize just to make others feel better. But in the constant apologizing. We're undermining our power and our credibility at work. The third way we do this. Is we qualify all of our responses. Let me walk you through this. We think we are being polite. And I know that we don't want to sound egotistical. It's almost this. Kind of reverse mansplaining. You know how you don't want to talk down to the men in the room the same way that they've talked down to you before. So reverse mansplaining. I don't know if that's actually a term. I think it should be a term. Can we agree that from now on when we talk school of midlife, when we talk to high powered women, we're going to talk about reverse mansplaining that we need to stand in our power a little bit more. When we're in meetings or presenting and projects, and someone asks us a question or we are just volunteering our opinion on something. So often. We start sentences with. Things that sound like. I'm sorry if this doesn't make sense. And then whatever it is. Or. This might sound dumb. But. Or. I know I don't have the history or the experience on this that everyone else does. But. I might be misunderstanding this. But. We are qualifying our responses. And what I would love to suggest to you. Is your undermining, your credibility when you hedge your responses. And we need to stop doing that. We need to confidently add our input. Here's why. When you start. A sentence. Or a comment with. I'm sorry if this doesn't make sense or this might sound dumb, but. Your telling everyone in the room that you think it might be dumb or stupid. And by doing that. You're immediately undermining your credibility because if you think it's dumb, Or stupid. Why should anyone else in the room think that it's anything but dumb or stupid? Does that make sense? Here's a really interesting example. That involves One of my male. Colleagues. At a real estate conference in Vegas. As real estate brokers, we get together at a huge deal-making conference in Las Vegas. If you have been to Las Vegas, just imagine the entire Los Vegas convention center full of brokers and developers and retailers and restaurant operators. We're all there for three or four days, we sit down. In these 30 minute meetings and sit down face to face to put together deals. And at the time I was working for a developer and one of my male colleagues was trying to pitch a location in our portfolio. To a national retailer. Well to Ross. They are notoriously hard deals to get the. Always have really difficult negotiations and The dealmakers that work for Ross come to play. as developers. Everybody wants a Ross in their center. They're a great draw. They're an excellent tenant to have, because then it's easier to fill the center with other tenants. But at the time, And I don't know if this is still the case, but at the time, in order for Ross to go into a center, They needed 200 feet. Of frontage for their store. So, what that means is there needs to be 200 linear feet. Of storefront at the front of their store. My male colleague was trying to pitch Ross. On a space in a retail strip center. But the space only had 150 feet of frontage. So instead of having the 200 feet of linear frontage that Ross requires, this space only had 150 feet. And in all of his infinite wisdom. My male colleague. Said. And he didn't even think twice about throwing this out. What he thought was a possible solution. He. Totally owned it. He didn't explain it. He didn't say this might be dumb, but his idea was okay. If we have a space that has 150 feet of frontage and you need 50 more. We're going to build a four-foot wall in front of the store. It will be four feet tall and it's going to be. It's going to run 50 feet long. So you'll have the hundred and 50 feet of storefront glass, which is already there behind. And then you'll have this 50 foot of all in front. So the hundred 50 linear feet of glass. Storefront plus this 50 foot wall in front. That will give you the 200 feet that you need. And he completely owned it. But I've got to say that that is the dumbest freaking idea I have ever heard, because the reason that Ross wants 200 feet of frontage. Is because they want the people to be able to see them more clearly. Right. They want 200 feet of unobstructed frontage. So my colleagues solution was to take that 150 feet. Build a 50 foot wall in front of it. So that, that would give them 200 linear feet. But it would have. Absolutely the opposite effect of what Ross was trying to achieve, which was more unobstructed vision. But he didn't care. He completely owned it. And I. I don't even know if he understood why it was such a dumb idea. I mean, I'd like to think if a woman actually had that idea, she would have run it through her head before she actually spoke it out loud and be like, Nope, that doesn't work. But he didn't do that. And because he didn't do that. And he said it's so emphatically. We're all kind of looking around him, like knowing this is a stupid idea, but also kind of in the back of our heads, trying to figure out okay. What am I missing here? Because he is totally owning this. He's trying to craft a solution that works here. There. I, I mean, this might be a dumb idea. Or does he just not know that this is a totally stupid approach? But listen to me here. He just owned it. And while I don't think I need to explain to you that Ross did not go for his hair-brained idea. I have to applaud his willingness to throw something out there without any concern of being judged. And I don't think a woman would have done that. Which leads me to this idea of how often have you been in a meeting and you say something profound or offer a solution that makes perfect sense. And everyone in the room glosses over it And a couple of minutes later. A guy in the room says the same exact thing, maybe in different words. Probably not as artful. And everyone around the table is like, oh my God, that is the best idea ever. I've had that happen a lot. And it drives me. Crazy. So. There are a couple of ways you can approach that one. Step up for yourself. Well, isn't that exactly what I just said. Or if you're not willing to step up for yourself because I just doesn't feel comfortable to you. Always have an ally in the room. Someone that can say. Um, that's exactly what Laurie just said. Let's go back Let's ask her about this some more. It's always a good lesson for me too. A little bit of reflection where when that happens. I am asking myself, how did I present that idea? Was I confident in my delivery. Did I couch my comments in any of those. Kind of pre comment, narrative or framing where I was undermining my credibility. Because it's all about. How can we be better next time? Because there are so many traditional systemic biases against women. In these powerful meetings. In powerful careers. Especially in male dominated industries. We've got to do everything in our power to put our best foot forward. And that doesn't, I don't mean over prepare. memorize the presentation. Prepare prepare, prepare. I don't mean that. But when we have the opportunity. We need to. Show up confidently for ourselves. Stop undermining our credibility. So speak up. When we've got. The audience. Speak up when we know we have a seat at the table. Stop deferring to others. Quit using I'm sorry. As an automatic response to everything. And lastly, stop qualifying all of our responses with. Lead in phrases. That. Make it sound like we don't know what we're talking about. Because. Think about this, let's go back to that Harvard Business Review study. In any meeting. The women in the room. Are significantly more qualified than the men. Because they're only in that room because they knew that they could meet a hundred percent of the requirements that were asked of them. The men in the room. 60% on a good day. So we've got two. Step. Into our confidence. To know that we deserve to be in the room. And stop. Undermining our credibility. Once we get there. I'd love to hear from you. What other ways? Are you supporting women in the workplace? how are you encouraging them to show up? What other tools or hacks have you. Put into place to make sure that when the opportunity. Is there. That you seize it. And you don't undermine your credibility. I'd love to know. Drop me an email I'd love to hear from you. And in the meantime, Stand in your power, stand in your confidence. Own the rooms you deserve to be in. You've earned a seat at the table. Make sure you sit in it. I'll see right back here next week on the school of midlife podcast in the meantime, make it a great one. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the School of Midlife podcast. I'd love it if you would take a moment and leave me a five star review so that we can spread the word to other mid-life women. Then join my mailing list. The link is in the show notes. And if you're ready to make midlife your best life, you can also find out more about how to work with me in the show notes. I'll see you right back here next week when the School of Midlife is back in session.