37. Boundaries to Fight Holiday Burnout with Erica Davis (Part 5 of the Have Yourself a Merry Little Midlife Holiday Series)

In this fifth episode of the Have Yourself a Merry Little Midlife Holiday series, my guest expert Erica Davis and I are talking about how chasing holiday perfection often saps our joy, adds stress, and feeds people-pleasing habits.

Erica makes the case for embracing imperfection through her unique boundary setting process. Erica outlines her 4-step reflection guide to set boundaries around traditions, family expectations, and people-pleasing tendencies.

Learn practical tips for delegating, downsizing traditions, and giving yourself permission to relax expectations. This holiday season really can be your best yet!

LINKS AND MENTIONS:
🎁🎁🎁 Click here to get Erica's Boundaries and the Holidays Guide:
https://www.wellnesswitherica.com/contact

🎙 Listen to Ep. 34: Saying "No" Won't Land You on the Naughty List
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2147326/13967247

📩 JOIN MY MAILING LIST
https://www.schoolofmidlife.com/newsletter

👉 CONNECT WITH LAURIE:
📩 Email Laurie

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Transcript

0:00

You are in for a treat today. Today's episode of the school of midlife podcast features Erica Davis, the owner of wellness with Erica. She's a wellness coach together we are talking all about. Boundary setting for the holidays. I know I talked about boundaries a couple of weeks ago. But this is a really unique spin with two coaches coming at it from different angles. Talking about the same thing. As you'll hear the day after the boundary podcast dropped, which is episode 34. Saying no won't land you on the naughty list. The very next morning I was at a networking event. And Erica was speaking on this very subject. So it felt like. Boundaries were. The topic du jour and. I loved her framework. to boundary setting. So I asked her to come on the podcast and she was More than happy to oblige. when we originally recorded this, I expected to drop it as a bonus in a couple of weeks. But as Eric and I talked about, this is information that would be good to have at the beginning of the holiday season, not two or three weeks from now. Welcome to the School of Midlife podcast. I'm Laurie Reynoldson, former award-winning attorney turned high performance coach for midlife women. I designed this podcast is your go-to place for weekly midlife inspiration, where I'll be sharing, inspiring stories, providing step-by-step actionable coaching and introducing you to some incredible women who are absolutely crushing it at the midlife game. And you'd better believe we'll also be having candid conversations about mid-life relationships, career moves, money, menopause, and so much more. So take out your reading glasses and notebooks. My friends, because the School of Midlife is in session.

Laurie: 2:08

Hello and welcome back to the School of Midlife podcast. I am so excited to welcome you back for this bonus episode with Erica Davis, the owner of Wellness with Erica. She's a wellness coach focused on the whole person. So diet, exercise, mental health, all of it. And I had the pleasure of hearing Erica speak at the Boise Breakfast Club about boundary setting. Actually, the day after episode number 34, saying no won't land you on the naughty list, Which was when part of our have yourself a merry little midlife holiday when we were talking about boundaries. And I, it was just too coincidental that I drop a podcast about boundaries during the holidays on a Tuesday and Erica talks about them on a Wednesday. I love that coaches can. Both talk about the same topic in this case, boundaries and, um, come at it with a different spin. So you are in for a treat today. Welcome Erica. Thank you so much for being here.

Erica: 3:19

Thanks for having me.

Laurie: 3:22

Let's jump right in. Um, I think as women get older, the holidays are always stressful, but as we get older and we have all of these requirements and expectations for our family members that we carry, holidays can be a lot. And I know as I continue to age in midlife, It just feels like the impact. I'm feeling the impact of stress so much more. Can you talk about stress and its impact on midlife

Erica: 4:00

women? I can, yeah. It's probably one of my favorite topics and one that I personally have dealt with really over the past couple of years. And I talked about this a little bit at my Breakfast Club talk a few weeks ago. You know, when I really began to kind of hit that midlife perimenopause phase, I personally realized that the level of stress and intensity that I had been kind of operating at for most of my adult life, both in my career, you know, professionally as well in my As in my private life, I realized that my body was kind of beginning to say no to that in a lot of different ways. You know, my sleep was beginning to be impacted. I was noticing greater fatigue. I was noticing, you know, when I was doing intense endurance training, my body was responding differently than it had in the past, not recovering as quickly. And I, you know, the bottom line, I just found myself maybe getting just a little bit more irritated sooner, especially with those closest to me and even with myself. And so, You know, I think as women, as we approach that midlife where we're balancing a lot, right? Many of us are still raising kids. Many of us are maybe starting to care for aging parents. Many of us are at a point in our career where, you know, we're experiencing maybe a level of responsibility and intensity and visibility that we haven't experienced before and then all of that combined with the hormonal changes that we begin to experience as we hit that, you know, kind of 40s to 50s Stage of our life. And as I look at the impact of that, you know, at least for me personally, and I'm working with my clients, I really have to begin to ask some of those tough questions of is this pace that I've been sustaining as a, you know, very driven, you know, maybe kind of type a professional woman, um, is it sustainable? And for me, that meant making a lot of shifts, not only in my professional life, but also just in, you know, how I was eating, how I was taking care of my body, you know, the types of, um, fitness programming that I was doing. Um, and I was realizing that if I wasn't going to make those changes, I was really going to begin to. See the ongoing impact of that stress on my life. Um, and so really for me wanting to support my body and as I work with my clients, wanting them to feel supported as they transition into, um, that kind of like next life stage of being able to recognize that. It's okay that we can't maybe manage that level of stress that we have in the past. And how do we adjust those expectations? Because if we look at the impacts of stress, you know, fatigue, depression, um, weight gain, um, impact on sleep or sex drive, loss of, of, uh, bone, uh, density, loss of muscle, um, you know, those are things that we want to avoid, um, ideally as we go into, to, um, that midlife phase. And so. Looking at stress for me, that was a big, you know, really kind of red flag to say, Hey, um, it's, it's maybe time to make some adjustments. Um, and that for me was, you know, I've always been, um, I would say pretty good at setting boundaries with people and, and holding firm to those, but I think that was kind of like that next level for me. Um, And I see that with a lot of my clients again who are in that kind of transition of like late 30s Mid 40s ish age range of realizing that um, there may be kind of done with trying to do it all um, and that whether it's their body saying that or maybe Things showing up in their personal life or professionally. It's really kind of that flag to say, okay, it's time time to make a shift

Laurie: 7:42

well There's so much to unpack there, um, but, you know, I, I think that a lot of times midlife women, it's, it's almost like we've been operating on this chronic stress loop that we, we don't, it's just kind of our normal. We don't actually even realize what the impact of, um, you know, maybe not getting enough sleep, um, working way too much. All the time, just always having those cortisol, that cortisol levels through the roof because we feel like, you know, everybody's relying on us to do all the things. when you personally got to the point where, you know, you, you were waving the red or white flag and said, I need some help. This isn't enough. This isn't sustainable. once you started setting some boundaries. Can you talk about a little pushback that maybe you, you received from either family members or co workers or what, once you said, I can't keep doing this by myself, I need some help or, or I just, I'm not going to do that for you. Did you experience any pushback?

Erica: 9:02

Uh, you know, I, I'm thinking back to that time in my life, and, you know, for me, I, I did take a professional sabbatical, I took some time to just step away, and that freed up a lot of my capacity to really reflect on what I wanted next, and, you know, what, Where was I headed, um, which led to my transition into, um, women's wellness coaching and, you know, I felt like I, I definitely had more, um, more space to have that time for reflection. And as I, I think about that time. I think for me, you know, like I said, I was, I was already pretty, um, effective at setting boundaries and maintaining those, but I think it was for me actually sitting in some of those boundaries with myself around what I was expecting of myself and maybe even, you know, lowering the expectations a little bit. Um, you know, I was performing like you were saying, kind of at that high level all of the time. And, Recognizing that that level of stress was not realistic. So I would say of any, um, Any pushback it was honestly probably having to make those adjustments in terms of my own expectations. Most of the people in my life I would say are, um, people who are really respectful of boundaries and I think I've attracted that because I'm someone who has modeled that in my life. So I think honestly the biggest struggle was more of an internal struggle to adjust those expectations because I had really been this high performing overachiever for, you know, pretty much my entire life, you know.

Laurie: 10:38

I think that is such an incredible way to approach this because most women do think, well, gosh, if I all of a sudden start, you know, maybe unlike you, not, not all women are, have traditionally been good boundary setters. So, so they're worried about how their family members in particular are going to react. Uh, I think you said it beautifully though when it was the boundaries I was setting for myself Do you have any tips on how you can get comfortable setting boundaries with yourself for yourself and not feel like you're failing or you're letting yourself down or you're, you're constantly breaking the promises that you're trying to keep with

Erica: 11:29

yourself? Yeah. A really easy example that comes to mind for me and, uh, you know, is honestly something that I've learned from my husband. He loves to be. Early to things. He always says that, you know, if you're on time, you're late. And, um. For

Laurie: 11:46

the record, I was late to the podcast recording this morning. No, you're okay, Laurie.

Erica: 11:51

I have typically been that person who it's like, well, I can get these five things done in like the two minutes I have left before we have to go to rush to the next thing. And, you know, I think that's like you were saying earlier, Laurie, part of that, um, As a high achievement woman, just kind of always being at that like level of intensity, even if it's just like, you know, filling out like the Christmas card addresses or something. It's like, I have to get all these things done and almost kind of pressuring myself to have all these things on my to do list and to Accomplish them in a timeline that was not realistic, right? And so, you know, when my husband and I got married, I, I really had to learn that I actually couldn't push myself to the very last minute on everything because he wanted to be early to things. And, and that was okay. And it actually pushed me to. Live a little bit more. Um, you know, I guess kind of like dialing that back a little bit in terms of saying like, okay, like, that's just that's not going to get done today. And that's okay. Or I am going to give myself an extra 15 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever to get there early to have some time to just kind of read to not feel like I'm just like rushing from one thing to the other without thinking. Taking that time to pause, taking that time to, you know, sit down and have a meal instead of skipping a meal or eating at my desk. And I really think that for me, it was just kind of creating that space. Uh, one of the practices that I adopted during that time was a breathwork practice. And that just really, you know, in some ways kind of forced me to slow down because it was like, okay, I'm focused. All I'm doing right now is focusing on my breath. Meditation had really never worked for me. And for me, being able to focus on the breath, uh, during the, those sessions, um, of guided breath work really helps me to slow down and just kind of take a beat and say, okay, I'm just here. I'm present. Um, because I had spent a lot of my life. Maybe not being really present and especially not being present to myself, um, because I was kind of in that state of, you know, just kind of like striving forward, pushing forward. The next thing I was the next thing, um, and taking that pause really became that space where I could then reevaluate, like, Do I even want to do these things today? They're on my to do list. Do I have capacity for them? Are they really that important? And um, you know, I, I find with many of my clients, one of the first things that we have to do is really evaluate what's on their plate, because many of us women have so much on our plate, we actually can't do the work that's required in coaching, because they're just, there's too much spending, there's too much going on.

Laurie: 14:33

I don't want to go too far afield here, but I would love for you to talk about your sabbatical. Uh, because I think that so many of us are in that daily churn where all we're doing is looking at what's next on the to do list. And I am a firm believer that you can't figure out what you really want to do in life until you... Get some of that off of your plate and, and start really listening to what's going on. Um, so let's talk about the work sabbatical real quickly. What prompted that? How did, how did that come about? if you learned one or two big lessons from that, I would love to hear

Erica: 15:14

them. Yeah. So how it came about, I at the time was managing a team and one of my team members. She actually took a sabbatical and used her extensive sick leave because of a variety of things happening in her life and with her family. And after she did that, I thought, gosh, that was, that was really wise of her to take that time. Right. Because most of us just keep pushing through. Right. And, you know, maybe we go to a few counseling sessions, but we don't really deal with the stuff. And I was reaching a point where, you know, again, kind of, you know, some of those. Symptoms of her a menopause creeping in and feeling the increased impact of stress, um, on my life. And, you know, so just being at a busy life stage, having, you know, parents that were having maybe additional needs than they had had in the past, you know, so kids at home, um, I was still training for competitive endurance competitions. Um, and. You know, just busy life, busy jobs, all the things. And so I realized I wasn't going to use my extended sick leave benefit for anything else. And so I thought, you know, I'm really at this point where if I don't start making changes, it is really going to have some negative impacts to my career, to my health, to my family. And so I, I went to my employer and just said, I want to take some time. And so I took, basically took the summer off, and you know, our kids were also at a stage where it made sense in terms of, um, you know, you kind of get to that point with kids where as they hit those teen years, you realize they're not going to be around that much longer, you know, once they get their license and their job and all the things, right? And just also wanting to kind of savor that time with them. Um, because we don't get that time back. Right. And so, uh, so I took the summer off and did a lot of fun stuff with, um, our kids and family adventures and spent, you know, two and a half weeks traveling with my husband in our van. And I really just unplugged. And, you know, I really, the thing that I focused on during that time. Um, took my training to kind of like the next level. I had a coach I was working with, um, I had an incredible season of competing endurance races, um, and just had a lot of fun with that and just let that be my focus. Just enjoying having that space that most of us really don't have unless we're a professional athlete at some point in our life to really just go all in on my training and, um, and competing, um, for that season. So. You know, I still had something that I was focusing on, but really letting go of that work piece, letting go of checking in with my employees and worrying about them and wondering how the projects were coming along and all those things that I really was holding kind of 24 seven, because of that leadership role and. Just set it aside and trusted that things would be okay, or maybe they wouldn't, and that would be okay, too, um, and took, uh, really an entire summer off to regroup and, um, and change course. And when

Laurie: 18:18

you got back, I assume the company was still running, like your employees figured out how to do things without you there. Is that right? Yep. Yep. I want everyone to hear that because we have oftentimes this expectation that We have to do it. I can't give it away. It's like this precious project that only I am available. You know, I'm the most qualified. I'm the most available. I do it right. And that's such a slippery slope. And I think that that is where. Women start having issues with boundaries. So let's get back to boundaries in the, I guess, before we go there, then how long were you back at work before you said, you know what, I'm going to go in a different direction with my

Erica: 19:07

life. Oh, it was, it was a month and like that entire month I was like, how do I tell my boss that I'm, I don't want this leadership position anymore. Because you get to the point

Laurie: 19:17

where when you, when you know, you know, right, you like, you can't force it anymore. Yeah. I, I thank you for sharing that. can you talk a little bit about the three mental traps? You talked about that, um, at the, at the breakfast club. And, um, for those of you, I'm sure most of you weren't at the breakfast club, but Erica has generously, Get it. There is a gift. Gosh, words are hard this morning. Um, she has generously shared with all of you this wonderful boundary setting document or guide, um, there will be a clickable link in the show notes on that. Um, but one of the things in there is the mental traps. I would love for you to walk us through the three mental traps.

Erica: 20:08

Yeah. Well, Laurie, you kind of already touched on one, which is the over functioning piece. And, uh, when I, when I shared the breakfast club, I shared, you know, kind of like three lines that we tell ourselves. So the first line is, if I don't do it, which you were just referencing, you know, like what happened when you went back to work? You know, did. Was everyone still alive? But we fall into this over functioning trap of, well, if I don't do it, right, if I don't get the family pictures organized, those Christmas cards won't go out, or if I don't, you know, cook all the food, this, you know, special holiday meal won't happen, or if I'm not there to manage my team, then things aren't going to get done. You know, no, no one, no one can do it as good as me, right? Um, and Really that mental trap is about over functioning and the question that I shared as a reflection question with the Breakfast Club group was, can I admit that I may be the only one that cares about this? Which is a hard question to ask ourselves, but I think a powerful one and one that I've included in the guide because there's so many things I think we do as women because it's a cultural expectation, it's maybe an expectation from our family of origin, it's something we saw on Instagram, you know, whatever. But we have this expectation of something that we have to do, and we might be the only one. That cares about it. Can you,

Laurie: 21:30

can you give an

Erica: 21:30

example? Yeah, my husband doesn't care if people got holiday cards. Right, right. And, and

Laurie: 21:41

what's so interesting about the holiday card is we all share so much on social media that like trying to find a picture to put on the holiday card that no one has seen is just, it's a whole nother level of crazy holiday chaos that we could probably take off your plate because you're

Erica: 21:57

right. Yeah. Exactly. We do them about every four years. I'm like, the kids have changed enough. It's time for someone to have an updated picture of them. Um, so that's, that's the first one. And that's really, you know, that kind of overfunctioning trap of, you know, again, if I don't do it, it's not going to get done. Um, and then the next one is, but I've always done it. Uh, and for me, and I shared this at the breakfast club, you know, my family really had this aha moment during COVID where instead of doing this big holiday meal and all this cooking and staying the whole day, you know, preparing Thanksgiving, we load up our van with a pre made meal and we went to a hot springs and no one cooked and really no one cleaned. And we just, you can do this story. I actually did it this last week. Uh, and we. Camped, and we ate great food that was already made, and we soaked in the hot springs, and we went for a hike, and played card games, and it was the best. And that was really this transition for me to say, you know, we can do things differently, and that's okay. This year, and honestly every year since, um, that Thanksgiving, we typically get our meal from Whole Foods or some other grocer that provides, you know, a pre made Thanksgiving in a box, as I like to call it. And... We just relax and enjoy and, you know, you stick that stuff in the oven and it reheats in about an hour and dinner's ready. And it's amazing. There's not a million dishes and we get to just relax and, you know, this year we played dominoes for hours with our kids and watched a movie and we didn't spend the whole day cooking and cleaning.

Laurie: 23:33

And it's not just, I mean, so if we talk about Thanksgiving, it's not just one day cooking and cleaning because you have to do all of the grocery shopping. You've got to do all the prep work. There's, you know, you, you have to get the house clean. I, for some reason, there's this expectation that. Or it's, it's our own expectation that all of a sudden people are going to start rifling through our medicine cabinet when they come for Thanksgiving or they're going to be looking at the dust on the baseboards or, so it's this whole heightened pressure that we put on ourselves that, what's the question? Am I the only one that cares about this? Oh no, that was the first one.

Erica: 24:13

Um, we can do things differently and still have a great holiday.

Laurie: 24:17

Yeah, I, I'm not the only one that can do this because, um, there are people that cook. There are people that, do you know that you can actually have somebody come in and decorate your entire house for, for the holidays? Like you don't have to do it. There are, there are ways to get around this. And so we need to be able to let go and let others help us out or, and maybe it's not even helping us out. It's. It's just figuring out that we don't have

Erica: 24:46

to do it all. We don't have to do it all. And if there are things, you know, one example with my family, you know, my husband doesn't care about the Christmas cards, but he does care that we have a Christmas tree out. And for me, again, that's a lot of work. Like, like you said, you have to like, when do we have a weekend where we can get the tree and then you have to go get the tree and then you bring it home and you set it up and you clean up all the mess that happened between like the car and bringing the tree in. Yes. And then you like have to get all the decorations out and put them on the tree. Right. And. I'm sure there are women listening who are like, Oh my gosh, I love doing that. I'm like, good for you. I wish I was that person. I am not that person, right? Like I, I don't enjoy it. And, but my husband, he, he wants to have the tree. He wants to have the decorations. I'm like, great. If we're going to do that, we're doing that as a family. This is not on me. I'm not in charge of this. This is a group effort, both to put everything up as well as to clean everything up. When Christmas is over, like I'm not gonna spend my PTO after Christmas, you know, New Year's Day or whatever, putting this stuff away. Like this is a family effort. You will all be assigned tasks. And that's a perfect,

Laurie: 25:53

that's a perfect boundary, right? Because it's something that would maybe... Traditionally, or we have been conditioned to, you know what? This is just something I'll take on myself. And it's you saying for my own personal space and head space and, and wellbeing, this isn't something that I choose to take on myself, even though maybe that's. I have no idea what his family was. Um, if his mom took care of that, but it's your, your letting go of the responsibility because you don't need to be the one that's, that's doing it. And in the process, then you are. Making this incredible family memory. Um, and um, I think that that is a, it's a great way to look

Erica: 26:46

at it. Yeah. I think the other piece of that too, Laurie, is it's also modeling for our kids, uh, you know, I think a different way from maybe what is traditional in a lot of families, especially when it comes to the holidays and the expectations that are put on moms, but it's also showing them that. Hey guys, this is actually a lot of work and this takes time and it doesn't magically happen, you know, and maybe that's like an awful thing to say as a parent, you know, like ruining the Christmas magic right there, but, um, but I think it's important for kids to see that. Like I have a full time job. My husband has a full time job. None of these things magically happen, right? Like we all contribute like we like to say, you know, be a contributing member of the family and we all contribute You know, my kids cook my kids clean they do laundry like we all pitch in and do the things There's four athletes that live in this house. There's piles of laundry like and in my living room right now then use people and so You know, I think just also modeling for them that this is a team effort. It takes time, it takes money, it takes resources, and it doesn't just magically happen. And really just teaching them that, you know, the reality of that, and that it should be a shared responsibility, not just something that's put on one person. I think

Laurie: 28:04

for years, maybe not to rat out my husband, but he seemed to think that like the sink was a magic sink. If you just put the dirty dishes in the sink, then all of a sudden they magically end up in the cabinet and they're clean. It was, it was like, there were a couple of steps between there, but. Anyway, sorry, Mike. Um, I don't think Mike listens to this anyway.

Erica: 28:27

I'm sure he's amazing.

Laurie: 28:30

He's great. And you know, what's interesting about it is once I actually had the conversation with him about, you know, Mike, um, the dishes don't automatically go from being dirty in the sink to being put away clean. There are a couple of steps. And he had no problem like putting them in the dishwasher or unloading the dishwasher when it was done. It was just his mother had never done that. You know, he grew up in a very traditional household where his dad would. Sit in his lazy boy chair until it was time for, to have dinner. And then he would get up and walk to the table, sit down and have dinner. And then when the dinner was up, excuse himself, go back to the lazy boy. And you know, if he wanted something, it would be like, dear, can you get me a glass of water or dear, can you get me another glass of wine? we got married later in life. So you would think that he would have actually figured that out. I think it's possible he just used disposable dishes and throw away for a while. But,

Erica: 29:32

but

Laurie: 29:33

once you have those conversations with people, most of the time, my experience has been, they're very willing and receptive to stepping up and helping out. It's just. They, they don't know. So we, part of, part of these boundaries is, is setting, having the conversation and setting some reasonable expectations.

Erica: 29:55

I think, yeah, I think so.

Laurie: 29:58

Okay. Number three on the mental trap. I, you know what? I've talked so much. We should probably, um, review the, we should probably review one and

Erica: 30:06

two. Before we go three. Alright, so number one is if I don't do it, so that's the over-functioning, the idea we, if we don't do it, it's not gonna happen. And then the, but I've always done it so that, you know, it's tradition. My family did it, my grandma did it, my great grandma did it. We have to, you know, bake that fruitcake or whatever. Right? And then the last one is, my way is better. Which is perfectionism and I'm sure most of the women listening to this podcast are probably like us, Laurie, and can relate to that. Uh, you know, if they're high achievement women in their careers, they likely struggle with some level of perfectionism. And I'm sure you see this in your clients. I see this in many of my clients. I see this with young women that I work with when I'm coaching student athletes. I think that perfectionism is rampant in our culture for women in particular. And My catchphrase, and I say to myself is done is better than perfect. Say that again. Done is better than perfect.

Laurie: 31:10

Right? So progress over perfection done is better than perfect. However you want to say it. I think so often we get so precious with whatever it is that we were working on that we just keep redoing it because it's never good enough and I think. The, the verb to perfect actually means to make better, which means you have to have a first draft. Nothing starts perfect. Right? Um, so this idea that, yeah, perfection is a tough one.

Erica: 31:45

Very tough. It is. And I think. At least from my experience, and I see this in a lot of women I work with, it can keep us from taking the risks that we need to take to make changes in our life. Say more. Because we, we're, we're so afraid of taking that risk because it's not going to be perfect the first time, right? We're afraid of looking dumb, we're afraid of looking like a beginner, we're afraid of looking like we don't know what to do, we're afraid of looking like a fraud, whether that's in our professional life or our personal life, and so we don't take that risk we need to take in order for things to change. Um, because we're so, so stuck in that perfectionism, which keeps us in that, um, really limited mindset of not willing to try new things, right? Because to try something new, you have to be a beginner. You have to risk looking dumb and you have to risk not. Knowing what you're doing, right? Asking for help, not looking perfect, not having it all together. And so for me, I think the perfectionism piece for women is a really powerful thing to, to address and, uh, move, move through to get to that place where we can just say like, yeah. Like, I tried it and maybe it didn't go well. Like, I always love to tell women the story of one of my first big races and I finished last. Like, literally the last person, they were cleaning up, like, the race equipment when I came across the finish line. But I was like, I'm gonna finish this race. There were several people that dropped out. There was like, it was like 30 percent of the people dropped out of the long course that I was on. And I'm like, I'm finishing this.

Laurie: 33:18

Not only did you finish, you had the courage to start and it was something new. Yeah.

Erica: 33:24

So done is better than perfect. Um, and when we get stuck in that trap of You know, my way is better. That's when we take on, you know, doing things that we should be delegating to our team, doing things around our house that we should be, you know, should be done by another family member or should be outsourced, that idea that like, I, you know, no one mops the floor like I do or whatever that thing is, you know, like, I think as women, like many of us, we have that, um, maybe that thing that we're obsessive about, right? Like, um, Women in my family tend to be a little bit obsessive about, like, how the laundry is done. And, like, that was just, like, something that I just had to give up and be like, just shove it all in there and, like, push start, right? Like, and move on. But, yeah, letting go of that perfectionism, because it does really keep us from taking those risks that are necessary for change.

Laurie: 34:15

I think for a lot of women, um, we struggle with boundary setting because we've actually never been taught about boundaries. I mean, from a very young age, a lot of us are conditioned to. Be a good girl. In fact, if we're talking about holidays, you know, you, you go see Santa as a little kid and you sit on his lap and he says, have you, have you been a good girl this year? And we equate, I love your term over functioning. I think a lot of us, you know, we wear this kind of high achieving, highly successful badge. But, uh, I think if you peel back a couple layers, there's this. Over functioning base there that, um, we probably need to address, but if we haven't been historically good at setting boundaries, how can we start? is there a framework or, um, anything that you use with your clients that would help women who haven't been historically good at setting boundaries to start setting boundaries?

Erica: 35:23

Yeah, uh, the guide will provide some of those tips in terms of, you know, a process I personally follow. I would say in general, start small with any change. Starting small, like what, what is the smallest boundary I could set today? So that we can, we can have a win with that, right? Because if we choose to be really big, like, you know, I'm Not doing anything for Christmas, you know, is our boundary or whatever, whatever the thing is, right? Because we're just maybe like, Good luck everyone, I'm just gonna... Like, I'm done. Like, no presents for anyone. Christmas is cancelled. You know, if we start too big, we're gonna fail, right? And that's true of many of the goals that we set when we start with something too big. So let's mean really small. We can say like, maybe this year it's like... Okay, like I'm not going to be in charge of the stockings or I'm not going to be in charge of Saying out Christmas cards like we're just we're not going to do it this year or someone else is going to do it or You know, maybe every year you like spend Multiple nights baking pies for like all your neighbors like what is something really small that you could just say I'm not going to do that this year or just something small day to day in your family or even at work that you're going to just Decide you're not going to do and then I think if it requires Communication with someone close, you know, maybe there's someone that is used to you doing that or depends on you to do that thing One, making sure you communicate it with them, but I think also thinking through being a little bit strategic in terms of the people you set boundaries with when you first are trying this out because if you pick you know, I mean not to pick on mother in laws, but at the Breakfast Club conversation everyone had a question about how to deal with their mother in law, right? And so not to stereotype but you know, if you pick that person Who you have maybe the most challenging relationship with, or maybe who is the biggest boundary violator, that's not going to be successful, right? There's probably going to be some shaming and blaming that happens. There's going to be maybe some sort of like relational breakdown. I mean, pick the person that you trust, that you know, they're, they're going to be cool with it, right? Like, they're probably just going to be like, okay, and move on. So I think picking an easy entry point in terms of who you set those boundaries with, and picking something that Is an easy thing to let go of, to set a boundary with, right? So it's not this huge high stakes thing that like, you know, everyone's counting on you to whatever. Um, ma, make it e make it easy when you first start. So,

Laurie: 38:03

uh, going back to the Christmas card example, you could say to your husband, You know what? I'm not going to carry the weight I'm not going to do that this year. Um, if you want to set out the cards, you can do it. Or maybe we just don't send them out this year. Or, you know, if you have always baked cinnamon rolls for Christmas morning. Um, you can actually go to the bakery and

Erica: 38:26

buy cinnamon rolls. Right? And they are probably

Laurie: 38:28

delicious, right? I don't know if people know that, but you don't have to do that at all. Um, so, yeah, it's, it's interesting. Um, when, okay, so you mentioned, um, there is a framework in the guide. Um, can you high level walk

Erica: 38:48

us through that? Yeah, so I outlined four steps that you You know, honestly, I really just kind of my intuitive process when I think about setting boundaries. So the first step is really acknowledging, um, and so acknowledging. Um, and I think that's, that's kind of my role in maybe not sending boundaries in the past and maybe being kind of like better about that a little bit. Um,

Laurie: 39:08

I think that's so important because I'm sorry, but, but, um, by not setting boundaries before we're actually teaching people how to treat us right? why should they value our time if it appears that we don't? Or why should. Why should we expect them to acknowledge a boundary for us if we have never set one?

Erica: 39:34

Yeah, we can't blame other people for disrespecting a boundary. We never said. Oh, that's

Laurie: 39:39

so good Okay, so

Erica: 39:42

acknowledge no one. Yep. Yeah, and then recognize so recognizing the patterns if I'm that person who's just Doing it all. How is that serving me? What am I avoiding by being in that, you know, kind of going back to that conversation that we started with Laurie about just being in that high stress, high intensity, like that, that's serving a purpose in our life. And it's likely helping us avoid some things that we don't want to look at. And so recognize, right. Um, and then reflect. And I think this is where it can get, I mean, those first few steps aren't easy, but I think this is where it can get very hard, because as you said, you know, whether it's the home we grew up in, or just what's modeled in the broader culture, or the expectations we have just put on ourselves. We often don't take time as women to stop and just say, what do I really want? Because we're so busy taking care of everyone else, right, like that emotional labor of like, you know, the neighbor that's sick, or my kids, or grandma, or my parents, or. My co workers or my team, we're always kind of like looking outward and taking care of others, right? Mm hmm. And so taking some time to actually reflect and making space for that to just say, okay What do I want? Like do I care about this Christmas cards? Do I enjoy making those cinnamon rolls? My sister She loves baking pies. She you know, like me she buys her meal pre cooked, but she loves to bake pies. That's her thing She sometimes does it with her boys And so she still does that because she enjoys doing that, um, but she's not doing it because it just stresses her the heck out and she feels guilty for not doing it right like she does it because she, she wants to. And so spending that time to reflect and say, I really wanted to do that like this year. We had not taken family photos for quite some time. We had not, we had not sent out any holiday cards for quite some time. And I was like, you know, the kids have changed in the past, you know, four or five years since I sent out that last batch of photos, like let's, let's do some photos, let's make this fun. Like we all got to go get some new outfits and got our photos taken. I'm saying, saying them out to, you know, friends and family and. But it was something that I wanted to do. It wasn't that I felt this burden to do it. It was something that was important to me. And am I going to do it next year? Probably not. But really taking that time to reflect on on what matters and then taking the time to communicate. Around this and I say in the reflection guide, communicate and collaborate, um, but really in a lot of ways it's negotiating, which many of us are great at in our professional lives. We would not be where we're at today if we were not good at negotiating, but it's really hard for us sometimes to negotiate when it comes to the home front, right? And to like, hold our ground and be like, Nope, like, here's like, I can do this. Or I can do that, which one would you like me to do, right? Or which of these tasks would you like to take on, right? Um, but having that communication piece, if you're going to change your behavior, Communicate it to people, right? They might, especially people close to us, might misinterpret that change if it's like you sent out holiday cards every year to your Aunt Judy and then she doesn't get one this year. She's like, did I just get disowned by the family? Right? Maybe it's like taking some time to communicate like, Hey, we're not doing cards this year. We're going to post a cute photo on Facebook or Instagram instead. Right? Um, but taking the time to communicate and to collaborate or. Really, you know, negotiate, um, for, for what's going to work in our home that year, or if it's at work, having that conversation with your, you know, colleagues, um, but making sure that it's not just something that you've decided in your head and you're not putting out there because maybe you're afraid it's not going to work.

Laurie: 43:25

Okay, let's, let's dive a little further into that idea that. You know, you can just say no, or I'm not going to do that this year. It feels like in some instances that takes a lot of, I guess we'll say confidence to do, to kind of stand in that boundary, especially if you're getting pushback. Can you talk about, I don't know if there are tips, but ways that we can be more comfortable in claiming the boundary and then holding it.

Erica: 44:04

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question because I think for some women this process can feel a little bit intimidating and, you know, we all have those challenging relationships in our lives where it is hard to set a boundary and to hold a boundary. Um, a couple of thoughts on that. You know again going back to the idea of starting small and starting with people that you trust um, we probably all have a person at least one person maybe more in our life that we Struggle to set boundaries with and so I would say not starting there I think also getting feedback from people That we trust. You know, I have close friends in my life that they will tell me if they're like, wow, Erica, like you, you're doing too much right now. Like, you're teetering on the edge. Um, and they will kind of pull me back. I hope that the women listening have, have someone like that in their life that they trust enough to, uh, maybe talk, talk this through with and say, Hey, like, I'm struggling, like, I don't want this next holiday season to just be stressed like it has been every year, or I'm struggling with my leadership role at work, and I'm feeling burnt out, but I feel like I have to, I have to stick it out, right? And finding that person, that close friend or, um, you know, someone that you trust that you can have that conversation with that can maybe kind of give you that, um, boost of confidence and those words that maybe you would say to them as a friend, but that are hard to say to yourself. Um, and I think that's where that reflection piece can also come in. Um, really handy to, to take some time to reflect not just on what you want, but reflect on that you are worthy of that. You know that the things that I do, my, my commitment to my training, my commitment to setting boundaries, my commitment to reducing my stress isn't just because like I read some book that said I should do this. It's because I believe that I'm worthy of having this life that I have, right? And so really reflecting personally on, you know, Do do I believe that I'm worth it or do I believe that I should just be running around doing everything for everyone? Um, and maybe there are some some beliefs there that need to be worked through. Um, You know, maybe based upon how someone was raised or again, you know just the environment that they grew up in can really influence that but Taking that time to reflect and maybe talking with someone who you know is going to say like hey like Laurie like you're you're worth it. Like I see how stressed out you are like Frickin pay that person to come in and decorate your house and move on, you know Uh, so that that reflection piece and and like I said, I think talking with someone that you trust that you know is going to um Say positive, encouraging things and help you reinforce, um, what you know you really deserve, whether that's holidays or, you know, how you're showing up at work or your relationship with your kids. Um, having that person that can say like, Hey, like you're, you're doing too much. Like, it's okay to dial that back. Like you, you still have value, even if you're not doing all those things. That's beautiful.

Laurie: 47:23

I think we all have that person. Um, and if, if we don't, that should be your only assignment between now and the end of the year. Yes. Get yourself someone who, who will, you, you can have those honest conversations with. For sure.

Erica: 47:39

I love

Laurie: 47:40

that framework. Um, I, and I, I think that most of the listeners, we love us a good framework because we're, we're real followers by, by nature. Right. Um, I, I want to go back to the 1. I think it was the 2nd. Part of your part of the reflection was. The question of what do you want and the listeners of the school of my life podcast? we talk about this all the time because the number one issues that midlife women deal with is They have no idea what they want and That's, that's just kind of the cornerstone of if you're going to make midlife your best life, you better freaking figure out what it is that you want. Otherwise, you're just going to continue to do what you've been doing and maybe it's been serving you, but I think for a lot of us. We're just a little burned out and we're tired and we're stressed out and we need to do things a little differently moving forward. Agree or disagree that the easiest way to set a boundary is to just say

Erica: 48:51

no. I think it depends on the individual. I, we like to say in our house, no is a complete sentence, but we also have a framework, a very candid, open, direct communication in our household. And that is also the. Style of communication I have with, you know, my closest friends with my professional colleagues And that is the norm for Erica, right? And so I am really cautious of making kind of those like blanket statements Around things like that because there are some women when they hear that they hear Oh, that's how I have to do it. And then if I don't do it that way, I'm doing it wrong Okay. And I think it's really important for, especially if you're someone who maybe is kind of that people pleaser and you're like always taking care of people. If I were just to say like, well, Lori, just say no, and you're that person who is, you know, maybe very sensitive to other people's feelings, very empathic, you know, wanting to keep peace. That feels like a really challenging statement. And so helping women to put it in their own words. And I like to try to, if you are someone who struggles to say no, like, are there ways you can even create a little bit of space for you in that conversation of, like, Hey, can I get back to you? I need to check my schedule or I need to think about it. Like If saying no in the moment is really anxiety producing which it is for some people then maybe figure out a way to just Delay that a little bit so you can like go back into your own headspace and be like, okay I can say no to this like it's okay And then get back to the person right like it's okay to shoot them a text index today and say Nope, i'm, sorry. I don't have time to bake cookies for that or whatever, right? Right. Um But I just, I am really cautious when it comes to saying that there's like one best way to do things because I think when we are talking about women who are that like really driven personality, and like you said, role followers, I can create this sense of I'm doing something wrong if I don't do it that way. I think there's a lot of great ways to say no, but it needs to be true to who you are. Like sometimes in my house, it's just the answer is no. But sometimes it's like, okay, well, let's talk about this, right? Right. And sometimes, you know, maybe it's a, it's a friend of mine who maybe is, um, you know, a less direct communicator. I'm probably not going to just give them a really direct, no, I'm probably going to give them a softer answer that matches their energy.

Laurie: 51:31

So, maybe not just saying no, but, you can set a boundary by. It doesn't have to be just saying no, it can be letting someone off the hook and, or, you know, the, the soft no, if you will,

Erica: 51:46

The other thing I would add to that is that it's, it's always okay to renegotiate, right? So if there's women listening to this conversation who are thinking, gosh, I wish I had listened to this. Three months ago, you know, before I committed to X, Y, Z, it's okay to go back and renegotiate. Like that might be hard if like the plane tickets are already bought or whatever. But if you said you would bake all these pies and you just, you realize you don't have time to do it without sending yourself over the edge. Like the holidays should be a time of joy, not a time of stress. Like there's nothing that, um, breaks my heart more than like, when you come back to work on that Monday after the holiday and it's like, everyone's just like, Oh my God, that was so stressful. And it's like, but it doesn't have to be, it can be. Different, but that takes time to reflect and figure out what you want and to. To plan for that right and so if you are listening and you have found yourself like in that trap of like I've said yes to everything and now how do I go back and do the four steps that Erica told me to do right? It's okay to say hey, you know, I'm really sorry. I overcommitted. I'm not going to be able to do that. Could we reschedule? Um, could we do this another time, you know, or maybe we're just, I'm not going to be able to do that this year. I

Laurie: 52:54

think that is so important because a lot of us feel like our word is our bond and I said, you know, I was going to do it. And if I, if I don't do what I said, then, you know, I, I'm, I'm letting people down or I'm failing, or I'm not a good person. Uh, but. It's okay to renegotiate. It's okay to things come up and just because your life is a little different now than when you committed to something doesn't mean that you can't. Renegotiate. we end all of the episodes with two questions. So, here they are. If you could go back, knowing everything you know, with all of your life experience, what advice would you give your 30 year old self?

Erica: 53:50

Uh, No one cares. Say more. I think when I was a baby, I cared a lot more about what people thought. And I thought that people cared. A lot more about things that, that they probably didn't or probably weren't paying attention to, um, and, you know, I think being now in my forties and being in that place of recognizing that and really being at peace with that and, you know, sometimes being around younger women where I can see that they're, you know, maybe still in that place of really worrying about what other people think, you know, I, I would go back to my 30 year old self and just be like, just move on, like, No one actually cares about this. They're not, they're not, they're not worried about it. You don't have to hold up some appearance for them.

Laurie: 54:40

Most, most of them aren't even paying attention, right? We, something happens to us and we think, oh my gosh, this is the worst thing ever. What, what are people going to think about me? And it's like, no one even knows

Erica: 54:50

that it happened to you. They're so busy with their own stuff, right? Yeah.

Laurie: 54:55

I love that. No one cares. Um, and then what have you loved most about midlife?

Erica: 55:04

I think just getting to that place of, you know, I do feel really clear on the direction I'm headed. I feel really comfortable in my own skin. I feel a lot less concerned to try to please or appease or accommodate people. And I'm much clearer on, you know, who's in and who's out and, um, I'm okay with not making space for people that in my life that don't support who I am and where I'm headed.

Laurie: 55:38

That is a beautiful way to end our discussion today. Thank you so much for being here, Erica. I have loved talking with you and I think that the listeners are all going to get a lot out of the, the guide that you put together, um, so that everyone can, let's make this the best holiday

Erica: 55:57

ever. Yeah, exactly. Thanks Laurie. Thanks for having me.

56:01

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the school of mid-life podcast. It means so much to have you here. My mission is to give all women the tools, mindset, shifts, and permission to make midlife their very best life. And I absolutely could not do it without you. Would you help me spread the word about the podcast by going to ratethispodcast.com/schoolofmidlife and leave us a rating. If you can spare a minute, I'd be honored. If you'd leave us a review too. That's ratethispodcast.com/schoolofmidlife. Or you can click the link in the show notes. Thanks so much for being here. I'll see you back here next week when the school of midlife is back in session