School of Midlife

112. Midlife Confidence in the Bedroom Starts Here—No Intercourse Required | Lee Jagger (Replay)

• Laurie Reynoldson • Episode 112

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Talking about midlife sex tips, confidence in the bedroom, menopause intimacy, erotic massage, Lee Jagger

🔥 Show Notes:

Is your sex life…fine? If so, it might be time to shake things up—in the best way possible.

In this most-downloaded episode of The School of Midlife podcast, Laurie sits down with Lee Jagger, a sex educator and founder of Rock the Bedroom, who shares the secrets to having the best sex of your life—without intercourse.

This is not your average sex talk. Lee breaks down:

  • How to feel confident and powerful in the bedroom (even if you've never taken the lead)
  • Why most women don’t know what they want—and how to find out
  • How erotic massage can transform long-term relationships (yes, even if it’s been 15 years)
  • Why rekindling intimacy is about so much more than technique—it’s about empowerment
  • The ripple effect of confidence in the bedroom and beyond

From menopause to mismatched libidos, low confidence to “is-this-it?” relationships, this episode offers real talk and actionable tools that will leave you feeling inspired, seen, and maybe a little giddy.

⚠️ Heads up: this episode includes mature content. Maybe grab your AirPods if the kids are nearby.


💡 What You’ll Learn:

  • The truth about intimacy in long-term relationships (and why it’s not too late)
  • How “just using your hands” can be more powerful than you think
  • What your partner really wants—and how to deliver it with confidence
  • How reclaiming your sensuality can shift your entire midlife experience

📌 Resources Mentioned:

💬 Listener Love:

“I laughed. I blushed. I cried. And then I sent it to three girlfriends.”
 “This is hands-down the most empowering sex advice I’ve ever heard.”
 “Lee Jagger is changing marriages. Period.”

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Laurie:

You know how we talk about all things mid-life on the school of midlife podcast. Well, we're going to talk about midlife relationships today in a slightly different way. Today's episode. We're chatting with Lee Jagger, who is a sexpert. And she's going to talk to you. Talk to me, talk to us about. Having the best sex of our lives. Without intercourse. So. If you've got kids in the car, especially young ones, this might not be the most appropriate episode for them. But for the rest of us buckle up because this is going to be a good one. Welcome to the School of Midlife podcast. I'm your host, Laurie Reynoldson. This is the podcast for the midlife woman who starting to ask herself big life questions. Like, what do I want? Is it too late for me? And what's my legacy beyond my family and my work. Each week we're answering these questions and more. At the School of Midlife, we're learning all of the life lessons they didn't teach us in school and we're figuring out finally what it is we want to be when we grow up. Let's make midlife your best life.

Track 1:

Hey there. Welcome back to the School of Midlife podcast. I am so excited about our topic today. I heard I had the pleasure of hearing Lee speak a while ago, and I knew that this was something I had to bring to the podcast. So without further ado, let me introduce Lee Jagger to you. Lee, why don't, Lee, why don't you tell us what you do?

Lee Jagger:

I love I love telling people what I do. I help women have the best sex of their lives. Especially, you know, menopausal, post-menopausal women, people, women who think, oh yeah, my best years are behind me. I help them have the best sex of their lives without intercourse, and I know that's gonna thrill some people for loop.

Track 1:

Uh, yeah, tell me more about that. So you're saying that we can have the best sex of our lives without intercourse. I'm gonna need you to go deeper on that. And here's the other thing is I, I, this is gonna be full of intended puns. I am sure, because I can't help myself,

Lee Jagger:

Yeah, it's, it's impossible to stay away from them. So I, I teach women erotic massage and so by using nothing more than their hands, they can make their guy see God. I have over 69 different techniques and most of which a guy can't even ask for. Like when we think of a guy pleasuring himself, we're thinking pretty well up and down movements, and we think that's all there is when it comes to touching a guy's privates. it's so much more than that and it's. It's not fast and furious. It's not, a means to an end, you know, I'm gonna do this so we can get'em hard so we can, you know, have intercourse and that's it. Um, no, it's so much more than that and it's so much more sensual. And I think of erotic massages like a slow Sunday along the curves of his body and your time and taking in the view and just basking and enjoying and, and it actually, it puts women in the driver's seat. Like instead of sex being something that we go along with, that's done to us. know, penetration is the guy coming into us, like it we're, it's done to us. Well, sensual massage or erotic massage. Really puts women in the driver's seat where they get to take control in the bedroom in a really comfortable way. Like if, if you're not used to taking control in the bedroom, then when I mention that women get sweaty, like, it's like, uh, no, I, I don't know what to do. I don't wanna take control. No, no. But I, I teach women how to do that in a really safe, easy, very baby step kind of way. And, and that lends itself to massive empowerment in the bedroom and out of the bedroom, just in the relationship in general. They learn how to ask for what they want when they start out by giving guys what they can't even imagine, So it definitely, it helps the women like this. This seems like a, oh, that sounds really great for the guy. What do out of this?

Track 1:

Right, right.

Lee Jagger:

get a lot. Out of it. Confidence is the first thing that starts turning around when people start getting into my world,

Track 1:

Well, I do wanna dive more into that, but let's take a step back first. How did you find, how'd you get into erratic massage?

Lee Jagger:

Well, um, I did not go looking for this. I will say that first off, that was, this is the, this is the last thing that I would've imagined me doing. Um, uh, being a sex coach. There's just no I wouldn't have seen that coming, but a few years back, I remember I was lying belly down on my bed, and I was counting out the coins in the bottom of my purse and a few bills, and all the money from my purse added up to$28 and 23 cents. I'll never forget that number.

Track 1:

And that doesn't get you very far, does it?

Lee Jagger:

and that was, that was more than what I had in my bank account.

Track 1:

Yeah.

Lee Jagger:

yeah, things were a little dire at the time. And as I'm scooping up all the change for my bedspread, phone rang and it was this woman who saw my Craigslist ad that I had, I'd placed looking for work. And she said, Hey, uh, you wanna do erotic massage? You can make a ton of cash doing these happy endings.

Track 1:

What did your, what did your Craigslist ad? What? What were you advertising on? Craigslist.

Lee Jagger:

yeah. Well, I, I, I, uh, I was advertising for Swedish massage, like therapeutic massage,

Track 1:

Got it.

Lee Jagger:

and she's like, well, we could spice those massages up and make you a whole lot more money. And, and here I am. I did not see this coming. And here I am with my mouth hanging open and I'm thinking, like me, let me tell you a little something, Laurie, about my sex life up until this point in time.

Track 1:

Bring it.

Lee Jagger:

wasn't exactly what you would call a Tigris. Like I had a libido. I was menopause, so sex was getting kind of uncomfortable, dryness and whatnot. half the time my boyfriend couldn't even get it up and, and I had zero confidence in the bedroom. I, I never initiated all that. you know when, you know when a guy, he like pulls your hand down towards his penis silently asking you to tickle his pickle

Track 1:

Yes, I, I am aware of that

Lee Jagger:

Yeah. I'd be thinking in my head, oh, oh my God, I hope he gets hard fast. Cuz he could just stick it in already and you know, cuz I don't know what to do with my hands. So doing erratic massage as a job, I was ridiculous. It was laughable. I was not qualified. I certainly didn't want to do that kind of work, but here I am looking down at the change on my bed. I needed the money honestly. So I figured I'd just do it a couple weeks just to get ahead. So I took the job and on that first day I was determined to be that sexy tigress pretend to, you know, like be all confident, fake it till you make it kind of thing. So the guys would give me a really big tip cuz I needed the cash.

Track 1:

No pun intended.

Lee Jagger:

you, you you ever watched the show Seinfeld?

Track 1:

Yes.

Lee Jagger:

Yeah. You know the character Elaine and her crazy dance moves,

Track 1:

Yes, I know that 100%

Lee Jagger:

She's so cool. She's busting out some funky moves, she looks totally awkward. Yeah, that was me. Except I was not oblivious to my awkwardness. I was feeling it very deeply, especially the happy ending part. I was just fumbling my way through. I didn't know what to do than, you know, just up and down. there was no warm warmup training on a cucumber. No, I was just thrown right in, naked man on a table. And at one point during the happy ending, the guy pushed my hand he finished himself off. And just standing there silently, trying not to fidget. Not sure where to look. Not sure where to put my oily hands while he's whacking himself off. God, I hated that incompetent. It was horrible,

Track 1:

But you came back,

Lee Jagger:

What's that?

Track 1:

but you went back the next day, I'm assuming?

Lee Jagger:

yeah, I mean, I was, I had a, uh, come to Jesus moment in that moment because I realized sexy situations, I, I was just used to the guy taking the lead me just going along with whatever he wanted to do. I had no creativity in the bedroom. I didn't know how to rock a guy's world other than open up my legs and let'em go at it. Like down to it, I had no game. I had no power in the bedroom. And, you know, I could have booked it out of that office with my tail between my legs and never go back. And I seriously considered it. But then at the same time, I got this thought, Lee, it's time for you to put your big girl panties on. dang it, I wanted to be great in bed. I wanted to know how to touch a guy confidently. And I knew in my bones that this job my opportunity, my practice ground to step into my power. So instead of running back to my comfort zone, I leaned in

Track 1:

Yeah.

Lee Jagger:

did that work for not for two weeks like I had planned, but for years. And I accumulated get this over 2000 clients and you do anything 2000 times you're good at it. you're gonna some kinks, And so by practicing on all these guys over the years, I discovered about 69 different techniques touch a guy's privates to bring him to his knees. I had a guy come in with Ed. A lot of guys actually come in with Ed erectile dysfunction, and I figured out exactly how to knock his socks off. I felt like Beyonce strutting onto her stage and owning it.

Track 1:

Yes, girl,

Lee Jagger:

Yeah. Anyway, it was a total turnaround. Surprising side effect was that sexy time with my boyfriend immediately turned around All of a sudden I was this wild cat that I had never been. I was always in the mood. Um, first time I gave him an erotic massage, he said, what you doing for the next 50 years? like, he's looking at me like heart emojis in his eyes, like I'm the best thing since pizza and beer and his ed, no longer a problem. I totally rocked his fricking world, whether he was hard or not, and actually I rocked my world. Most importantly, I had the best sex of my life intercourse, and I didn't even know that was possible at the time. We

Track 1:

And is that because of his reaction to you after the massage? Or you just because you had been touching 2000 penises, then all of a sudden you understood what was important for you?

Lee Jagger:

Yes, yes. I had this confidence. Like I knew, I knew what to do to blow a guy away. There was no more of this. Um, you know, oh, I hope I'm doing a right. I hope he likes this. Does he like it? He's squirming a little bit. I don't know. But he's not saying anything like, there was no chatter in my brain. literally strutting into the bedroom thinking in my brain, oh boy, you have no idea what's coming your way. I'm, you're gonna, you're gonna wanna put a ring on it, like it's, you are gonna wanna lock this down because I'm gonna be the best thing that you've ever had between the sheets. That was my confidence level. Complete 180 from what it was before. And at some point, My girlfriends are starting to notice I'm changing personally, and the sparks flying between me and my boyfriend, which hadn't been flying for a while, and we're like, Lee, you doing they wanted me to give them tips for their boring sexless marriages. And I kid you not, some marriages were saved because of some of my tips. And so helping my friends on the one hand a happier relationship or getting guys off in my office on the other hand, yeah, my friends more gratifying than being at the office with those strange guys. after honing my skills on over 2000 penises, that's it. I was done. I, I stopped working with the men and I, I've been teaching women everything I've learned ever since.

Track 1:

I, I'm, I'm interested, um, because I think a lot of women in particular, you know, we were raised with this, gotta be a good girl, kind of, you know, not necessarily submissive, but where men use their sexual partner number as sort of a badge of honor. When women do it, you know, we're not, it should be very low or it should be one or two. Did you have any troubles convincing women that this was a role that they should take in the bedroom? Or, I mean, do you, do you work on any mindset shifts there for them to step into that inner Tigris?

Lee Jagger:

A hundred percent yes. Women, when they first come see they're very tentative. They're very hesitant because there's this all that, like you said, all this old conditioning that they've been brought up, all the media, like if we're, if we're all. Crazy in the bedroom. We're a slut. We're, we're loose, we're, um, permit promiscuous like, it, it's, we, it, this heavy connotation is laid on our shoulders when we're rocking the bedroom. So yeah, there's a little hesitancy until they realize, like, I have a coaching, a coaching program. It is group coaching. very quickly see other women talk confidently about their experiences. So as soon as they get a whiff of what's really happening, like. Women's confidence is increasing. They actually know how to say the things that they're thinking in their brain. So when they're in bed and they're thinking, oh God, I've told them, I don't really like that when he does that, but it stays in their brain. They don't say it out don't know how to say the words in a way that it's actually gonna move the needle. It's actually gonna be effective communication. So once women get a, uh, a handle on what this is really about, it's not really about the guys, honestly. Like it's, a happy side effect. But this is all about women stepping into their power and getting what they want in the bedroom. It's not about being a floozy, it's about. Stepping into your own power and having a voice in your relationship. And if you can ask for what you want in the bedroom, my gosh, can ask like the rest of your relationship. It's a domino effect. It just all falls into place because then you can ask for what you want in the kitchen, in the boardroom with your boss. for that raise cuz now you're a confident woman. So, um, yeah, it it's, it's a big domino effect and it's all about reconditioning, what it's like to be in charge of your own sex life and to figure out what you want. A lot of women don't even know what to ask for until down

Track 1:

I mean, because a lot of them have been married 20, 30 years. They coupled up with a partner in sometimes high school or college and you know, it's not like we had any sort of real sex education. I mean, you, if you think back to high school, you know, or junior high or whenever it was, we learned about menstruation and we learned about biology, but really nothing how it went together or anything that had to do with, you know, intimacy comes a lot from the brain, not necessarily from the physical aspect of it. And so I, I'm just so fascinated by the work that you're doing, and I think it's doing such a great service for midlife women in particular, because we didn't grow up with these skills. And it, so do you ever have women who have been in these long-term relationships all of a sudden, you know, they don't, they don't tell their spouse or their long-term partner that, you know, I'm, I'm working with Lee, and then all of a sudden they're, they're the guys. Like, what's going on here? Who, who are you? Um, are you having an affair? What happened? Or anything like that ever come up?

Lee Jagger:

Yes, yes. Most of the women I work with are in their forties, fifties, sixties, and, um, you know, they've been married for 20, 30 years and, uh, And or longer they haven't been intimate in 15 years or what? Like Yeah, like really drastic situation turnarounds. Because when, when a woman starts this, like, the guy's not gonna see this coming.

Track 1:

Right?

Lee Jagger:

gonna walk the bedroom and she's gonna say, okay, honey, down on the bed, get naked, and your face up. You put your hands behind your head and you just take all this, that I'm gonna shovel on you, like all this love. And, and he's, he's to, yes, he's totally blown away. And he's like, what the hell is just happening now? But the thing is, guys are dying this. this very, very, very quickly looks like an antidote for a marriage or a. So, so, you know, boring, old routine marriage. Um, so the guys like, no, the guys have never ever said, are you cheating? It's sort of like, thank God you've been picking up my hint. Thank God you're giving me this affection that I have never felt in my life. Life. I can't tell you how many women who've done this, and the first time they do just a couple techniques, like I got over 69. But you, you put three techniques on, um, you do three techniques on your guy, and it'll make them cry. Like guys have openly wept because they've never been touched with that much care and compassion affection without. And I tell women when they first do this, do not let your guy touch you. Do not expect him to reciprocate. Like just let him your touch and this degree of love, which he's probably never felt before, men will weep.

Track 1:

Well, and I wouldn't,

Lee Jagger:

powerful because they've n they're always used to being the giver. They're always used to being the initiator that I'm trying to get some all the time, she's putting and she's blocking me, and all of a sudden she's giving me what I want to a degree that I have never even experienced or imagined in my life. my God. Yeah. No, he's, he's not questioning her or suspicious, he's just thanking God,

Track 1:

Well, and I would assume too, I mean that's almost a badge of masculinity or manhood, right? Is, is to be the provider and the giver. Um, so I can imagine that there are some probably wondering, like, you want me to just lie down here with my hands behind my head,

Lee Jagger:

Right. Yeah. And you would think that that would be very emasculating, but it's actually not. Um, because the guy will want to in a manly way in all sorts of ways, like in the bedroom, like she's gonna get thrown down on the bed and he's gonna like treat her like a goddess, or he's gonna make her dinner. Or he's gonna buy her a, a new iPhone he is gonna fix that fence that's been creaky that he has been putting off for six months. Like, and I'm giving you real life examples.

Track 1:

Yeah.

Lee Jagger:

that my clients tell me like, he did the dishes. never done the dishes. You know, like he, he will want to step up and, you know, maintain that manly. I am, I, I, can't be outdone

Track 1:

Yeah, I was, um, and I was wondering because, you know, so many of our listeners are these midlife women who are accustomed to taking care of everything for everyone else in their life. Whether it's making sure that the lacrosse uniform is washed and dried before the game for their kids, or the dinner reservations are made for their mother-in-law's birthday or something with work. So, you know, one of the things I, I was wondering about is, so what's in it for the women who are just thinking, God, I've been doing this for everybody else in my life and I'm so tired and can't we just go to bed? But it sounds like, you know, and when I say go to bed, like go to sleep and we can deal with this in three weeks when we're on schedule to do this again or whatever. Um,

Lee Jagger:

right?

Track 1:

it sounds like that there is, there's definitely something more in it for the women by giving to their partner, they're able to. Not only ratchet up the intimacy in the relationship, but then also change their mindset about how they're showing up in all sorts of different relationships in their life.

Lee Jagger:

Yes, they're listening right now, aren't really gonna get it until it actually happens. And they're like, oh, okay, now I get it, but I'll give you the words. So Um, so I had mentioned before confidence. And confidence seems like a cliche kind of term until you are, and then it's just who, it's just who you become. Like be able to confidence to ask for what you want. The confidence to say, you know, honey. That thing that you always do. Can we talk about that? You know, like to be able to bring up conversations in a very non, um, non defensive kind of way, non fighting evoking kind of way. Um, the, it gives women a lot of communication skills in their relationship for sure. And the confidence to start those, those conversations. Um, Also, like there's a lot of women in midlife who are starting over, like they're getting or their hubby has passed away and they're reentering this dating world that is completely different than the last time that they dated.

Track 1:

Yeah.

Lee Jagger:

so, for a woman to be able to walk into a first date situation, not having the mind chatter of, okay, is he gonna like me? Oh, I hope he likes me. Is he gonna call me? I don't, I don't know if this conversation's going all that well. Like, I like ho hopefully, hopefully I get a call back or like, there's none of that chatter. She's walking in thinking to herself, this guy doesn't know it right now, but he just won the lottery by having a first date with me. And he's gonna be the luckiest guy on the planet if I accept a second date from him. And I don't have to do, I want a second date from this guy, are my magic hands. Um, gonna be wasted on this guy? Or is, is he worthy of me? Oh my

Track 1:

they sponge worthy?

Lee Jagger:

who walk into a date thinking those thoughts, it's always, Ooh, he likes me. This guy's really hot. Ooh, I really like him. I hope he likes me. Like, no, no, no, no. You are a goddess. You're a queen. And so to give women at this phase of their life, that super, um, level of confidence, that's priceless. That's priceless. And, and I had one, I had one guy say to me like a man in my, uh, office, who I, he was one of my clients and I told him that I was retiring and I was gonna be teaching women to do these things for their guy at home. And he looked at me and his jaw dropped, dropped open, and his eyes just got really big. And he said, oh my gosh, Lee. If women did this for their guy at home, he would swim oceans for her

Track 1:

Aw.

Lee Jagger:

oceans like the things that your guy will do for you, if you will do this one little thing for him that actually is fun for you. By the way, this isn't obligatory at all. You're actually having probably almost as much fun as him believe it or not. It's so, it is so good to feel that powerful in the bedroom to do this and make him do that in response and go, yeah, I caused that. I rocked his world. Like you have all the power. So that is very intoxicating. Women, women get, I think, more out of this than men. Men get the physical pleasure and the, the knowledge that he is fully 100% loved and admired and respected and adored through your touch. That's what he is gonna interpret it as. But ladies, you get way more way outta it,

Track 1:

I love that. And you know, I, earlier you were talking about taking control and empowerment, and I definitely think that if you can ask for what you want in such an intimate setting, then you are going to be able to ask for what you want in all sorts of settings. I mean, I think that the kind of go-to response for women is fine, I'm fine right? Which in, in all sorts of areas, not just in the bedroom, but, um, it seems like definitely a skill that, or not necessarily a skill, but a way of being and a way of showing up in your life that will have amazing ripple effects, not only in your personal relationship, in your romantic relationship, but in all areas of your life.

Lee Jagger:

Yeah. And honestly like. When, when you said fine, like, oh, I'm fine. And there's so many ladies in relationships right now where the relationship is just fine. And you know, the old saying, life is, is too short. Well, I think life is too darn long for a crappy or a fine sex life. Like unless you're, unless you want to be roommates and that's not why you got married. So I don't believe anybody who says, yeah, I just want, I'm cool with being roommates. I really don't believe that you didn't get married to be roommates with this guy. is something that you're settling for to make a crappy situation bearable. Yes, I get that. And you're doing the best that you can. Of course you are. That's, that's the best that you, the best scenario that you can imagine right now. It's just amicably getting along as mostly but life's too darn long to live without passion, you know, to live without giddy laughter in the bedroom or out of the bedroom.

Track 1:

Yeah.

Lee Jagger:

it's just life is too long to live in mediocrity, especially your life partner.

Track 1:

I 100% agree. Um, the up until this episode, the number one downloaded episode for the School of Midlife deals with gray divorce and why midlife women have affairs. Um, and it's most of the time, you know, they're, they're in these very loving relationships. They love their partner. They just, they have affairs because they wanna feel something different than what they have always felt, particularly in the bedroom. So I think that this is an interesting antidote and maybe something that they, they should try or if they wanna save the relationship. And the reason that they're going outside of the marriage is for like the physical piece of it, or the intimacy. This definitely seems like an antidote to the doldrums and the, the settling.

Lee Jagger:

Uh, for for sure. Yes. Um, and that sounds self-serving, but that's the reason why I do this cuz it actually works.

Track 1:

Yeah.

Lee Jagger:

also guys, same thing. I mean, most of my clients, my guy clients were with somebody, they had a significant other, far majority of the guys were either engaged or had a girlfriend or a wife. And in almost every case, they loved wife or whoever. They didn't wanna break up for sure. But they just weren't getting something physically at home they needed. And guys, typically, generally speaking, um, they, they need this sexual, uh, attention. Like they need water.

Track 1:

Hmm.

Lee Jagger:

Just, just like women. We need physical affection. We need to feel safe and secure, and we need all those things too. And men, I think maybe even more so, and, and we don't, we don't hear them asking for it other than it seems like they're a horn dog. Oh. He just, he just wants to have sex. And there there's no, you know, they don't understand that we need more than just the physical. We need other things too. But guys really need that physical, there's a reason why their privates are called their manhood men. Identify so heavily with their genitals. So ladies, if you are not touching his genitals, if your vagina is rarely, but, but on those odd ca rare cases when you are actually having sex, it's only your vagina that is touching his penis. That is a really lonely place for a man. Like, um, mother Teresa, believe it or not, taught us a little bit about this

Track 1:

She did tell. Tell me

Lee Jagger:

right? Mother Teresa. Uh, she, uh, she has this quote, said, the most terrible poverty is loneliness

Track 1:

Mm

Lee Jagger:

feeling of being unwanted. And when a man doesn't get his penis touched, that's a very lonely place for a man to be.

Track 1:

sure.

Lee Jagger:

very unwanted. If you don't want his penis, it feels to him that you don't want him. He takes that very generally and personally. So, um, so yes, men, men need this touch and it is so healing. And when get, when men feel filled up in this way, it is amazing what he will do for you in the bedroom. And he will, you know, you're, you're going to school, you're learning a few techniques here. You wouldn't believe the amount of men who are willing to reciprocate and get that book that you recommended that teaches him how to pleasure you better now

Track 1:

Mm, mm-hmm.

Lee Jagger:

actually, he, he doesn't wanna be out done in the bedroom. So wanna reciprocate and he's gonna wanna get back to that sweet spot that you've just. T, you know, treated him too. So Yeah. He's gonna treat you to some fireworks. Yeah. He's gonna make you not ever think cheating on him because you are getting filled up at home too.

Track 1:

Here, here's a hot take for you. I, um, I feel like most people in committed relationships feel like everyone else is having way more sex than they are. What's your take on that?

Lee Jagger:

Yeah, because we, yes, that's exactly what it seems like and. And Hollywood has brainwashed it us into thinking certain things about relationships and how they should look. Social media, you know, there's the, the happy hubby picture and you know, the family shots and everyone's happy and everyone's having a great love life. And, and we assume that's a great love life as well, because when they're in, you know, when they come over for that little get together, they're the, they're a little bit more affectionate there than they're at home. you know, people bring out the best of the best of their relationship when eyes are on them. And sex is, is such a taboo subject that we don't really open up and be vulnerable about what's actually going on. Um, we don't wanna air our dirty laundry, we let the world believe and our relatives and everybody else that, um, great. Oh, we're, Tom and I were better than ever. And you assume, oh, okay. Then if things are better than ever, then you're assuming that they have a better than ever sex life. And that is, in most cases, not the case. It's a lie. It's a, it's a facade keep a very uncomfortable truth from surfacing because no one really wants to look that truth dead in the eye have a very raw and real conversation about it. Because in their brains, they're thinking, there's nothing I can do with this, that I'm, I'm not gonna split our family up. I'm not gonna get a divorce. It would, I can't afford a divorce

Track 1:

Mm-hmm.

Lee Jagger:

so I'm just gonna tuck my head down, sweep this stuff under the rug and just. Maintain that comfortable roommate situation and not ruffle any feathers and not bring it up to family because we don't wanna get into this. We're just maintaining

Track 1:

Yeah.

Lee Jagger:

I can handle. This is can handle, and, and if, if we let the, the, the, um, doors open to this, I can't handle that. I can't, you know, I can't come back from that. It's, you gotta stay comfortably numb in order to maintain a, numbed out relationship. Like, so it's, it's a survival mechanism. I think that we do that, but we don't realize that we're giving everybody in the pre the impression that their sex life, which sucks, is the exception. it's not. It's the norm, unfortunately.

Track 1:

Yeah, I, I agree. I, and I, I think it's ironic too that most of the time women would, they're more accustomed or they feel more comfortable with kind of a cut and run mentality, which is, you know, I'm not gonna settle anymore. I, this isn't working for me anymore. My dog, I think Um, and instead of trying to nurture the relationship, they, they just go on to the next. Um, so I, I really feel like what you are offering here is it could be very life-changing for so many, so many people.

Lee Jagger:

Yeah. thing is, if people cut and run, yes, that's a viable op, uh, option. However, with the next guy, There you are, you have a part to play in what went down in that last failed relationship. So, so even, even if I tell my ladies this, my clients, I say, okay, yeah. If you think that next year when your kids go off to college, you're gonna get a divorce. Okay, fine. I'm not gonna talk you out of it. However, use your current guy as practice ground to heal to fix you and whatever part that you're playing in this horrible, um, situation that you're in, because it always takes two people like you're feeding off each other here. And guess what happens? They end up healing that relationship and they don't get that divorce because now they are having a better time with their guy than when they first met. Like, it's better than ever. So I give ladies the opportunity to cut and run, but I'm like, no, no, no, but first let's just work on you. Use your guy as the the crash test dummy to practice on. You know, you, you're gonna practice your skills on this guy and then you can cut and run and she never wants to cut and run. Then

Track 1:

Well, I mean, you've got so much history together. There was a reason that you got together to begin with. So it does seem like if, if you can, I, I would say fix this little problem. And of course it's not a little problem, but it's, you know, if she already feels safe with this person, it's, like I said there, there's plenty of history. So if they can just get over this hurdle together, um, it, it seems like certainly it's financially better and, and, and Lee and I are not saying if you are in a terrible relationship, stay in a terrible relationship. But for those of you that want to spice it up a little bit and maybe take it to another level that you haven't had for a while, that's what we're talking about here.

Lee Jagger:

Yes. Thank you for that little caveat. I appreciate that. Um, if, and I'm the first one to say, Hey, so if this guy is abusing you in any way, cut and run, get, get out. And um, that, that's an exception to my rule is get out of there if, if he's abusive. Um, but like I had this one I had this one lady, oh my gosh. When I first started teaching this to women, um, this lady emailed me and she said she her whole relationship, big long email. And basically at the end of it, when she was asking for help, couldn't stand the air that this guy breathed. He didn't even have to say a word. He'd walk in the room and she was instantly in a bad mood. Those are her words and. And she went into detail and I responded instead of like, oh yeah, I got this course you can buy and I can help you. No, I actually said to her, have you considered a divorce? Cause feels like it's, there's too much water under the bridge. Like she'd been married for, I don't know, 25, 30 years, like a long time. And it had been bad for most of that. And she just, it was bad. And, and so, so I kind of sloughed her off. I'm like, I don't, I don't think I can help you. But she joined one of my three day challenges or something, and she was determined. So she ended up signing up and later I found out that she was the one who sent me that email, and she completely turned things around. She, like, they were, they were laughing together. Like before, she wouldn't even bring him out for dinner because there'd be a scene, there'd be a fight. Like they didn't go anywhere in public together. They were actually taking their kids out together, out to restaurants. Like it was ridiculous how she was able to turn that around. So, to Sonya. She was amazing. Um, but it, you know, if it's an abusive situation, cut and run, but, but it can still turn it around if you actually want to. For sure.

Track 1:

So let's, let's talk about that because I think we all would love to have a, a better connection and, you know, that confidence and the empowerment and, um, also have great sex. I mean, I, who doesn't want that? So I guess, um, You've, you've talked, how can people work with you? You said that you've got a course, you've got challenges. But then I kind of walk me through what that looks like, because I mean, I think the last thing that any of us wanna do is have somebody else in the car and we're listening to a course or something and it sounds like, you know, some trashy romantic novel or we happen to be on our computer at home in the dark in our office and it looks like we're watching YouTube or porn videos or, I mean, how does one work with a sex coach?

Lee Jagger:

Right? Yes. And that, that's a big concern. A a lot of people are very concerned that my stuff is gonna look like porn. I

Track 1:

Wow. Chick a wow. Wow.

Lee Jagger:

if you're into porn, yeah. Bounce, go. Wow, wow. Uh, if you're into porn, I'm not dissing you at all. I'm just saying that's entertainment. That's not education. And so I actually. Am very, um, almost with how I teach what I teach, because I be on the opposite spectrum porn be taken seriously and as an educator. so, yeah, I'm fully dressed. I'm not lingerie or anything. I'm, I am demonstrating techniques on a naked man's body because, I mean, it'd be ridiculous if I was trying to describe on a cucumber or whatever, you know?

Track 1:

But I mean, and, or like, um, what was it? Uh, joy of Sex that had pictures drawn in it. So I, I, it actually makes sense that you would be doing this with an actual human.

Lee Jagger:

Yes. And, and it's educational and, and it's like you said, we, we don't have this educational background. This is not taught to us in any kind of, uh, formal school setting. So time this happened to take away some of the taboo. So, uh, you had mentioned courses and challenges. I've done those in the past and I found that what really, um, moves the needle for women is. Coaching, like actually being able to talk with me and with other ladies and getting their perspective on what's working for them and being inspired by other ladies', successes and all that. I created a membership and I put all of my courses and all the challenges and all the information into one monthly membership. And, uh, and so every month there's new techniques and we get on, uh, group coaching calls every week. And, and we, we have some girl talk and a lot of the ladies, they're like, you know, this is the only place where I can go and actually talk about this stuff. Like, I can't talk about this with my mom or my friends or my aunt, or like, this is the only place I can actually open up and be, be vulnerable and know that I'm fully supported and encouraged and, and I'm getting some expert advice on what to do with my situation. And so, I don't do any of the courses anymore. I just do the monthly membership

Track 1:

Okay.

Lee Jagger:

I have women join me on the calls and there's, there is, there are online videos, like you can learn all the techniques online. I don't, I don't really demonstrate a lot in the, the coaching calls, I've, I do have a dildo that I keep close by because people are like, okay, so when you do maple sugar or maple syrup, I can't really get my fingers around that direction. Like, how do you, how, how can I do this? Blah, blah, blah, blah. I do have, I do pull out a little dildo to clarify certain things for women, um, if they have questions about the techniques. But, uh, all the training is online so they can watch it on their own time, know, when the kids aren't around or, or whatever. Um, and actually I have, I have ladies tuning in from work with their head earbuds in front of the coaching calls. It's awesome.

Track 1:

I, so two things that are coming to mind right now. Um, one, you mentioned maple syrup. So is, do you actually use, I, I don't know. Do talk to me about that.

Lee Jagger:

So sorry for the confusion. Yeah, so I name, I name all the techniques after food because and it easier to, instead of, oh, that thing where you take your index finger and you circle it around the corona of his penis, da da, I just say, okay, that's onion ring, that is orange juice, or

Track 1:

Got it.

Lee Jagger:

or whatever. And so it's so much easier for women to remember the techniques so that when they actually get into the bedroom, they're like, okay, I'm gonna do guacamole, butter, and pancake. All right. Got it. and, and it's easier to remember

Track 1:

And when you said headphones or AirPods, I'm imagining that a scene from American Pie where the, the guy's got the book under the bed. Do you remember that? Where,

Lee Jagger:

scene. I I don't think I,

Track 1:

well he's,

Lee Jagger:

since I saw it, so I can't remember,

Track 1:

he's, he's, he trying to do oral sex on his girlfriend. Right. And, but he's like reading about it. He's got this special tongue situation that that's in the book and I can't remember what the book's called, but I could just imagine, you know, maybe not. But somebody's got their AirPods in their, their, their guys laying back with his hands behind his head and she's kind of listening to an instructional video. And

Lee Jagger:

Yeah. You

Track 1:

that's where my head went.

Lee Jagger:

you are not too far off the mark there cause Cause I one of the videos that I, well, a couple of the videos, so I. I put all these techniques together into what I call a quickie. So I'll take like four or five techniques. I'll teach them individually step by step, this is how you do them all. And then in a separate training, I'll put them together in a quickie. So it's this choreographed. You don't have to be creative with it and figure out, okay, so what do I do next? How do I, how do I put these things together? show you. And women will actually plug in their earbuds and follow along with their, their phone off to the side and their guy has like a cloth over his eyes. Cause I tell ladies, especially in the beginning, so that he's not looking at you and you don't feel, you know, on a stage when you're trying these things out for the first time, put a cloth over his eyes and say, oh, I'm just gonna give you a spy experience and little sensory deprivation so that you're just focused on what my hands are doing to your body. And so she can consult this, this, um, tutorial or say, you could write a few names down on a cue card or something and put it off on the side table so that you can glance over and, and refresh your memory of what you're doing. and they, and so it's the ladies sometimes say, yeah, we had a threesome with you last night, Leigh because it's like I was the room. Okay. So do this with your thumb and step by step. great.

Track 1:

Yes, it's, it's like midlife American pie, kind of. So question. is it just hand techniques or Are there mouth techniques? does it go into intercourse or is it do, is it all hand?

Lee Jagger:

Great question. I, it, I teach only hands.

Track 1:

Okay.

Lee Jagger:

there's things that Yeah. That you can, and it gets quite, uh, it, it I don't even know how to say this in a way that doesn't make it sound overwhelming. It's complicated. Like there's a lot of things that your hands can do that your vagina cannot do, that

Track 1:

Well, it's probably like learning, um, chord progression on the guitar, right. where you have to,

Lee Jagger:

It's kinda like that. Yeah. And there is a progression where there, you know, month one is pretty easy. Anybody can do it. If you're a virgin you've never even seen a guy's penis, you can do these techniques. And then is a little bit trickier. Month three. Oh, a little bit more complicated. And so it, there is a progression. You're using only your hands. But two weeks ago in a coaching call, one of the ladies said so, I don't mind doing oral. And so I was wondering how, how can I do this with my tongue? Like how, how can

Track 1:

Hmm.

Lee Jagger:

And I'm like, okay, so that thing you do with your left thumb while your right hand is doing this thing with his balls, okay, do that left thumb thing with your tongue. And so there's ways to, yes, I teach only hands.

Track 1:

Yeah.

Lee Jagger:

if you were to take one of your hands make your tongue do that, or your lips do that or whatever, then oh yeah. Last night one of my girls, Carrie, she said, yeah, so my guy, he's flacid and we were having intercourse and he couldn't maintain an erection, I was on top. So I just, basically that thing that I do with orange juice, with the palm of my hand, I. I did that with my vagina, his penis, the head of his penis was outside of my body, and I did orange juice with my vagina and it made him come so hard. So, so yes, there's, there's ways to modify what I teach, but I only teach

Track 1:

Okay.

Lee Jagger:

Yes. Which for me was an awesome survival technique because at the time that I came up with all of these, I, did not want to do oral.

Track 1:

yeah.

Lee Jagger:

that wasn't my happy place at the time. So hands Yeah. That, that was, that was a survival technique for me.

Track 1:

And, and you mentioned, um, your client's partner Flacid penis. I would assume that there are certain issues that midlife couples have that maybe are more, um, prevalent in midlife couples. I mean, we, we've talked about erectile dysfunction. could you go into a little bit about, um, the woman during menopause and why maybe she doesn't want to have sex right now or

Lee Jagger:

Right. Yeah. And that's why the roommate situation is just fine with most women because it's like I, the, it's not comfortable anymore.

Track 1:

Yeah.

Lee Jagger:

painful sometimes. So there, when a woman is going through menopause, post menopause, all the, all the menopause

Track 1:

Yes,

Lee Jagger:

then, then there is a change in body chemistry and your vagina goes through a lot of changes. You're the, all that, the whole area down there is different. So you get dryness down there. You're not lubricating as much as you used to. lining is thinner. So there, there can be tearing actually during intercourse. So it's, and a lot of women, they're, oh god, love them. They're doing the best that they can. They're getting creams, they're getting lubes, they're taking hormone replacement therapies and different medication that, medications that have different side effects and it doesn't always work. And so, Instead of trying to fix the problem, I help women work with the problem. Like, okay, let's let this not be a problem. It's not an issue. can rock a guy's world, so he will never miss penetration ever. Because your hands are doing stuff that feel better than And guys have told me that. They're like, oh yeah, I used to think that, you know, intercourse, that's the pinnacle. That's where all roads lead. That's what all men want, is that's the home plate right there.

Track 1:

Yeah.

Lee Jagger:

No, there are things that she can do with her hands that feel better than what your vagina can do. And so for a, from a man's point of view, he's not nagging, um, his wife anymore because he is, he is going to around the rings a Saturn with just her hands. So not, she's not getting that, that to let him have his way and, and the whole obligatory sex out the window. That goes away permanently. And if he wants to do something orally on her so that, you know, there is no penetration, but she is getting satisfaction. yeah. There are resources I can point out that really fit the Bill I don't teach those, I don't men, um, the women's parts, focus on the men's parts. But I do have resources that ladies can pass on to their guys.

Track 1:

Excellent. Um, this all sounds like it takes a lot of time, I I mean, we've got, uh, you mentioned orange juice and maple syrup and pancake and 69 other fruits and vegetables and, and, and food. So for the woman who was like, man, I, I've done, all I wanna do is go to sleep. Um, I can tell that he's turned on. do you teach some techniques to so that we can have that, that great moment and then we can just go to sleep?

Lee Jagger:

Right. Cause that's what we want. Like can I just roll over and

Track 1:

Thanks. Exactly.

Lee Jagger:

up in the morning. I got a million things on my to-do list. I long day. Yes, Yes. I I can sh I can show you how to make you guys see God in five minutes max.

Track 1:

Do you hear that ladies? So it doesn't have to be a long, drawn out situation and you can still get your sleep. Everybody's happy.

Lee Jagger:

Yes. And the learning of these techniques, like I can teach you how to do those things that you're gonna do in five minutes. I can teach you that in less than 10 minutes. And that includes you practicing on maybe a dildo or something like it takes only a few minutes. Yeah. And just a couple techniques. Yes, I can show you 69 different techniques, but you really only need like three to start and he's gonna be blown away and go, oh my God, that's amazing. And then you can say, yeah, I know 69. And that was And that's actually what one of my a couple weeks ago when she went out on a date. Was he, she just blew a guy away for the very first time and she's, she said that to him. He, he's like, oh my God, I can't even, you're taking a course to learn a bunch of things. Wow. She goes, yeah, I know. 69, Amelia. She didn't know all 69, she knew four, but she, she knew there were 69 to learn, so she said to him, yeah, I know 69 different techniques. And that was. Four and his giant hit the ground he was just blown away. to learn those three or four techniques to just start, yeah, it takes you like five or 10 minutes to learn those and then a few minutes to execute them and your guys on a sex side for days. So yeah, it doesn't take long to do it or to learn it actually. It's very, very simple, uh, this isn't rocket science here.

Track 1:

Right. Um, I, when we were talking before, you mentioned that on your website you have one tip or something that folks can. Talk to me about that.

Lee Jagger:

Yeah, the, so for ladies who wanna just dip their toes in the water, cuz they're like, I don't, I don't know about this this could be really raunchy. Who knows? Right? So I have a free technique that ladies can check out and they just go to rock the bedroom.com and, um, and it's called powdered sugar, the free technique. It will drive him wild. And it's super simple. In fact, most women, they'll watch it and they'll be like, no, that, that's not gonna do anything. But if they do it, oh, it'll do something

Track 1:

Well, and I,

Lee Jagger:

thing, the guy can do that on her too. Like it's not penis specific. he can easily modify that technique for her body. So it's, it's, a twofer

Track 1:

so that's good. Um, And then talk a little bit more about the monthly membership. Do you, what does that look like? You have weekly calls, you've got daily calls, you've got one a call once a month. You, you all try out a new technique.

Lee Jagger:

yeah, every month are a bunch of new techniques that, that get dropped into your library. So it's sort of like, you know, if you were learning how to, uh, be a better cook and you get new recipes every month to out, kinda like that only it's, it's, uh, erotic massage techniques and those get dropped every month and then, uh, four, four weeks of every month. So sometimes there's five weeks, but.

Track 1:

Yep.

Lee Jagger:

Four times a month, there is a weekly call where you can come on Zoom with me and a bunch of other ladies in the program and, learn from what everybody's doing and the, you know, oh, I had this challenge with this. What do you, what do I do to get outta that challenge? Or, you know, I haven't touched my husband in 20 years. I'm not sure how to start this. Help me. Um, you know, you, you learn from the other ladies and myself and those calls, that's basically it. The, you need an internet connection to learn all the techniques every month. Um, and then join us on Zoom, and, and goodies every month. It's so good. And, and if women wanna check that out and get all the details of what that's like, um, the website for that is rock the bedroom.com/membership and all the details are there.

Track 1:

Great. And we will definitely, we'll link all of the places that you can find Lee, because she hangs out in all sorts of social media areas. Um, we will do a, um, link. Drop a, a clickable link in the show notes for her website. And I think you are offering a monthly membership for a discount, sorry, on the monthly membership for school of midlife listeners. Is that right?

Lee Jagger:

Yes, So if, uh, if they wanna sign up for the membership to try it out, um, I mean, you can cancel anytime it's monthly membership. But if they wanna try out the first month and get 10% off, uh, I created a special coupon code for your listeners and it's Laurie 10, Laurie one zero, and you just throw that in the, um, coupon code box at checkout and get 10% off of their first month.

Track 1:

Excellent. So we'll put that in the show notes as well. Um, before we go to the two questions that I ask all of our guests, is there anything else that you want to talk about as, as it relates to either the course or, um, What midlife women should be doing sexually in, in the bedroom. Anything else that, that we haven't talked about?

Lee Jagger:

I just would really love for women to know that, um, this isn't about rocking your guys' world, although you will. This is about rocking your own world

Track 1:

Mm.

Lee Jagger:

and taking control of your own happiness, own sexual satisfaction, your your own life. And so when I, when I'm talking about rocking the guy's world, really is just a side effect. is really about you ladies becoming so empowered and just deliriously happy in your relationships. Yeah.

Track 1:

Who doesn't wanna be deliriously happy in all parts of their life, right? Yeah. And so much, I mean, if it starts at home, it's just gonna have this ripple effect everywhere else because we spend a lot of time at home and we spend a lot of mental energy at home as well. So, um, might as well make it as good a place to be as possible.

Lee Jagger:

percent.

Track 1:

So let me ask you a couple questions that I ask all of our guests. Um, if you could go back, knowing everything you know, with all of your life experience, what would you tell your 30 year old self? What advice would you give her?

Lee Jagger:

Girl, you don't have to settle for the stuff that you think you need to settle for. You really don't, you know, like that thing that you think you need to do order to get that thing that you want. And you're, you're, know, knuck, white knuckling it the reward is, is big on the other side, the joy is in the journey. It's not about the reward. if you're not enjoying the journey, if you're settling for white, knuckling it out in order to get to some finish line and reward, you're gonna be really disappointed girls. So just let that stuff go. Find the fun path. There is no path to happiness. said Happiness the path. I would've told myself that at 30. Yeah.

Track 1:

and I think that that applies not only in the bedroom, right. But

Lee Jagger:

Across the board,

Track 1:

yes. I love that. I love that. and then finally, what have you loved most about being midlife? Being a midlife woman?

Lee Jagger:

Oh, not caring what other people think. Oh, it's so good. It's so good. letting go of taking on other people's. Expectations and assumptions and this is how it's supposed to be and this is how I'm supposed to look and this is how my body is supposed to, look like. And not just letting all that go and going. I'm doing the best that I can with the, the skills that I have and the situation I'm in. I'm doing the best that I can and I'm rocking it in my own brain and nobody else has to actually agree with me on that. I love that about midlife.

Track 1:

I love that too. I think that that is a perfect note to end on. Thank you so much for being here, Lee. I really enjoyed this conversation and I know our listeners will as well.

Lee Jagger:

been such a pleasure. Thank you so much, Laurie.

Thank you so much for listening to the School of Midlife podcast. It means so much to have you here each week. If you enjoyed this episode, could you do me the biggest favor and help us spread the word to other midlife women? There are a couple of easy ways for you to do that first. And most importantly, if you're not already following the show, would you please subscribe? That helps you because you'll never miss an episode. And it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. Second, if you'd be so kind to leave us a five-star rating, that would be absolutely incredible. And finally, I personally read each and every one of your reviews. So if you take a minute and say some nice things about the podcast, well, that's just good karma. Thanks again for listening. I'll see you right back here. Next week when the School of Midlife is back in session until then take good care.

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Laurie Reynoldson

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