The Fully Mindful with Melissa Chureau
The Fully Mindful podcast explores what it is to be fully mindful and present in our everyday lives, uncover our worth and discover our purposes. Host of TFM, Melissa Chureau is a neurodivergent lawyer, mindfulness teacher, and embodiment and breathwork coach. On TFM, Melissa interviews inspiring creatives, wellness leaders, and social disruptors about how they have discovered their purpose(s), authentic wellness, and the value of their work on the world at large.
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The Fully Mindful with Melissa Chureau
Tangents & Sidebars | Finding Authentic Gratitude & Connection (and some random things too)
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Don't be alarmed. You may remember that Tangents & Sidebars is a random episode here on The Fully Mindful where my friend and fellow podcaster Debbie Harrell from The New World Normal get together LIVE for a truly random conversation. Well, not totally random. We do actually plan some areas of meaningful exploration. But, in true Debbie + Melissa fashion, we are also a bit ADD, so we wander a bit. And here's not different as we start off with a riveting conversation on....glasses and aging!
But we really do get to some meaningful stuff here: Gratitude and Authenticity.
As November rolls in, gratitude takes center stage, but is all thankfulness created equal? We explore the nuances between genuine gratitude and the performative gestures often seen on social media. Debbie and I reflect on the emotional complexity of gratitude coexisting with anxiety and challenge the notion of these emotions being mutually exclusive. Through heartfelt dialogue, we discuss the importance of authenticity and recognize privilege's role in personal growth. From navigating systemic biases to fostering true connections in the personal development space, this conversation promises insights and reflections that resonate well beyond any single season.
Make sure to check out Debbie's podcast, The New World Normal.
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You are live here I am. Well, what happened? Welcome to another episode of Tangents and Sidebars, where Melissa from the Fully Mindful and I, you know, come on here and talk about random things. Here we go. Here she is.
Speaker 2Maybe possibly we always talk about random stuff and, um, we'll see if there was a stink bug that was like just exited the screen right before I came on. I'll see if he comes the screen.
Speaker 1Yeah, there's a stink bug on the screen, not like on my screen here um, I'm doing this without glasses because, now that you know, with the time chains, it's dark and I have to use lighting and I just hate the glare. It drives me bonkers. There's glare. I'll probably be super squinty, but it's okay these are fake glasses anyway um.
Speaker 2These are just blue light glasses they're not real interesting I have, my real glasses are coming, and then, um, here's new work for you. I went to get my new prescription this weekend and you know they're like, oh, do you want, um, progressive lenses? And I was like, oh, that's right, I'm getting older, I probably could use that right. And they're like, yeah, and they didn't tell me how like that that would be a shit ton more money for progressive lenses. So then, like I go to pay and I just like I, I just paid, and I didn't think about it. And then I was like, wait a minute that doesn't seem right.
Speaker 1Did I get five pairs of glasses?
Speaker 2Right Cause I went with my daughter and she got prescription glasses too, so we got three pairs of glasses all together, and so I knew it was not going to be inexpensive, but it shouldn't have been what it was. And so then when I got home I looked at the receipt and I was like, oh okay, I guess when you get older person's glasses you really pay for it. And so I emailed them and they were very nice. I said I, oops, I don't think I'm quite ready for progressives and, um, or at least my wallet's not we undo that part of the transaction, just kidding. Yeah, they were nice, um, and actually I really liked this company, um, um, warby parker, oh, they do really, yeah, frames and they're actually, um, very inexpensive for the quality, um, and I'm sure I would have been just fine with their progressives, but I wasn't quite ready for that yeah.
Speaker 1no, we use warby parker as well, yeah.
Speaker 2I thought it was. I mean, when we first went to Warby Parker.
Speaker 1We did not sit out to talk about this. On Tangents and Sidebars we're sticking to the Tangents and Sidebars.
Speaker 2I was like you know, because I think I originally found out about them through the Rich Roll podcast and I was like, well, if it's on Rich Roll, it must be expensive because all his stuff is high end that he promotes. And no, I was pleasantly surprised, it's not expensive, despite what I said about the progressive lenses all there's. I mean like I think my, I think my frames were like $123 or something it's like, with the lenses, like all of it together in one. I've never paid that little for a pair of glasses.
Speaker 1Yeah, the first time I went to a work at Parker it was in Venice, so I feel like it's like the cool kids.
Speaker 2Yes.
Speaker 1And expensive eyeglasses.
Speaker 2Yeah, I'm pretty psyched. I can't wait, I can't wait to go buy more glasses.
Speaker 1I was excited, speaking of getting older and sight. When I got my eyes checked last time, my doctor said that my astigmatism had corrected itself. So I literally don't need um prescription glasses anymore, I just need magnifying for reading so you like hear this.
Speaker 2Young people who might be listening, just hang out and your vision is going to get better and so I just came home and immediately bought a bunch of uh inexpensive, uh magnifying cheaters.
Speaker 1You know they're in every room of my house, every bag I have.
Speaker 2I was like I could have progressive expensive lenses or I can just have the like $5 Costco version and and just put those on when I need them.
Embracing Gratitude and Appreciation
Speaker 1Yeah, and I think you can order. I don't think there's expensive as prescription, but you can get the cheaters also. So, yeah, I look at what happens the ones and they were a little expensive. I'm like no, no, I like my, you know, five dollar target ones the one benefit of getting older your vision every once in a while every once in a while the benefit yeah, but we did.
Speaker 2What we're going to talk about is kind of heavy I don't know.
Speaker 1I guess anything could be heavy these days, depending on how you look at it. But we're in the month of november, which a lot of people try to focus on gratitude this time of the year, and you and I kind of bonded about the fact that when it starts happening, we're like, oh god, and I feel like you and I have talked about this before too. Anytime I'm feeling resistant or annoyed by something that's usually when I probably need it most yeah, or annoyed about it, right.
Speaker 2it's like, oh god, right, need that more, and I really don't want it.
Speaker 1But I don't want to.
Speaker 2So what we were going to talk about is well, I mean, we're also going to talk about, like, performative gratitude. So a lot of people feel like they have to be grateful, right, and then they have to be, they have to show that they're grateful, right, and so there are a lot of people out there doing reels and Instagram posts and talking about how grateful they are about all the things in their lives and maybe they really effing are, I don't know.
Speaker 1That's it. It's like are they really? Are all these people really that grateful for all these things? Are they just posting this?
Speaker 2I don't know. I mean and I think that's the danger is like to really be grateful. I mean, the gratitude practice is really amazing, right, and we know from the science that it works. It really does work. Sidebar only works if it's honest, right right if you believe it.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's the same affirmations. You got to kind of believe it, or it's not gonna really work if you're just forcing yourself to name things that you feel you should. What area would you feel?
Speaker 2thankful. Yeah, you can't fake it until you make it. I'm a big believer in faking it till you make it, or at least that action can. Action precedes thought, right, like in terms of changing your thoughts. That said, I don't think you can fake gratitude like you've got it and I've gotten there by doing what I'm calling I guess I'm going to call them bridge statements. So if I'm not quite grateful yet, I can find something smaller, or I can find appreciation. So, while I might not be grateful for my life and everything that's happening in it at this very moment I might be like for not to me.
Speaker 2And sometimes I really am there, but a lot of times I'm not, and so you know I might be like God. You know well, I really appreciate it. This really strong hot cup of coffee right now and that's where I'm at or like a bridge statement would be like, well, I'm willing to try to maybe work my way into feeling grateful about having what I have in my life, Right, so that it's an honest statement, Like, if that's honest, like I'm willing to try to work on that, that's honest.
Speaker 1Yeah, I would agree with that. I feel like when I'm having resistance, telling myself to start as small as possible, I think of the tiniest thing or that, bridging. Know, I'm working on it, I'm trying. Um, I might not be there yet, but I'm working on it, right, right. And then, yeah, the other thing that I was I found myself being annoyed by someone mentioning and I don't remember what word she used, but it was like you can't be grateful and this also, it doesn't happen like the science.
Speaker 1And I was like what do you mean? Because I'm constantly talking about, you've got to leave space for the and I can be grateful and sad, and I think. And so I did a little research it was the first time I did research before one of these calls and it's anxiety. They say you can't be anxious and grateful at the same time. Yes, okay, thanks. Because I feel like I'm like. I feel like I've been anxious and grateful, because I feel like for anxiety for me, especially in this time in history, like anxiety is just constant in the background, it's like white noise, it's, it's there, and I'm not saying it's debilitating, but it's there, and so I can be grateful for these things, but also like anxious about the uncertainty you know.
Speaker 2Yeah, I say, people that say that you can't feel love and fear at the same time, and I I don't believe that either. I think you absolutely can feel love for someone or something or a circumstance and also be afraid of something else. Right? I think we're. I think it just we're not so black and white, right? I don't think it's like an either or situation.
Speaker 1Yeah, it is love and fear, cause I'm like I feel like they just kind of go hand in hand, because when you really really love something, that's kind of terrifying.
Speaker 2It can be, yeah, 100%. And so, yeah, anxiety and gratitude, I think, can co-mingle. They can be on the same dance party floor, why not?
Speaker 1Thanks for validating me, because I was like I don't know that, I believe that I feel like I felt it and then I'm like maybe I'm misnaming my anxiety maybe it's not actually anxiety, what is it, I don't know.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think we're just much more complicated as human beings than you know and and maybe as, like a general I'm just trying to be generous to whoever that was um, you know, I mean, maybe like as a general rule, you know they don't generally coexist, but I think they could coexist and obviously they do coexist because you felt them at the same time and other people have felt them at the same time. I'm sure I've felt them at the same time and I just think we're a little bit more complicated than that.
Speaker 1I wonder if it's more like in the like when you're purely focusing, maybe like a meditative or mindfulness practice where you're focusing on the gratitude itself. Maybe that's when it kind of doesn't leave as much room for the anxiety or the fear or the sadness.
Speaker 2Maybe it's more like an eclipse, right, it's still there, but it's eclipsing it, right? Yeah, you like that? Yeah, um, but yet here at tangents and sidebars yeah.
Speaker 1So now that we have sufficiently shit talked, the idea of a gratitude practice. Why is it important? Why is it important to have Right.
Speaker 2Well, when we can find genuine, authentic gratitude.
Speaker 1Genuine or believable.
Speaker 2I mean we tend to attract more of that in our life. We tend to see more of it in our lives. So the more we can find appreciation I'm going to use the word appreciation in tandem with gratitude the more we can find appreciation for things, the more we tend to see things that we appreciate and that we are grateful for. So, in the you know kind of using that eclipse metaphor right. The more that the eclipse can remain right, the more that we are eclipsing those difficult feelings. They're still there and they're not going away, and I'm not saying that we're hiding them or feeling like we need to not be with them, but what becomes more predominant is a feeling of gratitude and appreciation in our lives, and that feels good, yeah, and that's part of the science, right when our brain is looking for evidence of the things that we believe.
Speaker 1So if we're busy believing that we're grateful and appreciative, then we're going to see the evidence of that and appreciative, then we're going to see the evidence of that.
Speaker 2It's like when you buy a new car and you're like nobody has ever had a red Prius before me and then you buy the red Prius and suddenly you're like, oh my God, everybody and their mother has a red Prius, right, you just start noticing it, right, so it's the same kind of thing. So the more that you can activate that appreciation or gratitude, the more you're going to see appreciation and gratitude out there in the world, just like the red Prius.
Speaker 1Yeah, and I feel like that's I've been thinking a lot about. Well, because that's why I started that mindful media newsletter that I'm going to do on Fridays with suggestions of things to watch, because, feeling anxious, that low-grade white noise of anxiety in the background, and then you realize, well, what am I doing? To relax? Killer documentaries and dystopian um movies, you know which I love but also that's then feeding us that viewpoint, and then we're going to look for evidence like oh my gosh, it's.
Speaker 2We're going that way, right yeah, my husband's like can't understand. He'll always make fun of me in a cute way, like you know. He's not truly making fun of me in a cute way, like you know, he's not truly making fun of me. He's just like thinks it's cute about me that I watch like Abbott elementary and the English teacher and stuff like that, and I'm like, well, yeah, the world kind of sucks, so I need to watch stuff that's just like irreverent or funny or you know, maybe taps into like the goodness of humanity.
Speaker 1you know when, when possible, it's it's it feels better that way, right, yeah, I need to see that and see it out there in the world too yeah, and I'm I'm grateful, I'm grateful that they are um, some creative people are doing that on purpose, you know, like doing like ted lasso style shows and we were talking about the other day how shrinking is doing such a good job. Yeah, of might not be perfect, like as far as because I'm curious what the therapy world thinks about that show but as just a lay lay person watching it like, oh look, they're talking about all the range of things that we deal with and, um, doing it lightheartedly and accessibly, I don't know I like it right and even talking about you know big heavy things.
Speaker 2They're talking about feelings and like actually having conversations about them, and that's really cool. Yeah, yeah, which gets to our next topic, we are also going to talk about coaching. In quote, unquote, unprecedented times.
Speaker 1Well, I feel like it works for therapy too, whether you're working with a coach or a therapist, and I hope that most therapists are bringing this up. I know it's something that I talk about in my coaching. A lot is the, the outside influences like you can't really focus on. I'm trying to reach my goal without noticing, paying attention to the the out, outward systems that are impacting your ability to be able to get there, whether it's the economy, you know, impacting your monetary goals, or I mean there's just so much going on in the world right now.
Speaker 2Or politics, or war, or your rights being taken away or threatened to be taken away or impacted in some ways.
Authenticity, Privilege, and Gratitude
Speaker 1I mean yeah, or just the uncertainty of not sure what's going to happen. Are all those things going to happen? Are they, you know? Are they going to be as bad as we've, a lot of us have imagined? Is it yes? Yes, we don't know. Try to stay hopeful. Try to stay hopeful.
Speaker 2Maybe, maybe not, a lot of good people are doing a lot of good things. But I also appreciate, like you know, we can't, and I guess this kind of gets back to this idea of not being toxically positive or, you know, trying to be grateful when maybe we're not feeling it so much. I've seen a lot of thought leaders or spiritual leaders that I really appreciate, you know, talking about this like they're having a hard time, they're struggling. They're actually talking about the fact that they're struggling and they're keeping it real, and I appreciate that you know that they're not like oh look at me, I'm the guru, I have all the answers, All will be okay, just listen to what I have to say and do what I do. They're keeping it absolutely real.
Speaker 1Yeah, and appreciate the fact that they're actually talking about it. Because so many times people and which has always been mind boggling to me like if you're in the personal growth space, how do you not talk about these kinds of issues? Like, how do you not talk about politics? I'm just not political, I mean everything's political. Like well, I can't think of a thing that really isn't political.
Speaker 2When they say they're not political, they're saying they're not comfortable talking about politics. But that's something different.
Speaker 1Right, that's the more honest statement. I recognize that it's easy easier for me to be to hold on to a little little bit of that hope being that I'm a white, able-bodied woman living in California, right, so and so that's a different experience, vastly different experience, than somebody in a different colored body living in a very red state.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1A really really different and people and and that, and that's kind of been one of my pet peeves too is people in the like guru personal development space, where they they don't acknowledge their privilege, especially in the coaches coaching coaches, which we love that, like, I can do all these things okay. Where, like you've got there's some reasons that you can do all these things Okay. Where, like you've got, there's some reasons that you can do all these things so easily. Like, share a little bit of that too, because it takes time to get from point A to point B and you know if you had some help that share about, yeah, it wasn't necessarily earned.
Speaker 1You know you've got to be honest about that with yourself and your people that are following you.
Speaker 2Right, and there's this idea in coaching and definitely in therapy, that you know it's not about us as coaches or in the case of therapists, it's about the client, and I absolutely agree with that. That doesn't mean that you don't share something of yourself and your experience, right. It doesn't mean you're like some coach robot or therapist robot.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, which is actually In actual coaching therapy. I was more like people online when they're sharing. Oh, I see Trying to build an audience, not necessarily in a session, but how they're presenting themselves as they're trying to attract people yeah, no 100.
Speaker 2And I mean I, I, yeah, I. You gotta love those posts that you see where they're like. In one month I went from earning one dollar with no clients to earning five million dollars with 10 and you're like, good for you, or I don't believe you know, or?
Speaker 1like the fact that I've told you that I was very proud I I talked to a trump supporter and we had a dialogue and I feel like he actually heard me explain privilege to him, because when I first talked about the idea of privilege, he's like well, I've earned.
Speaker 2I earned everything I've got.
Speaker 1He kind of forgot that. He told me about his family having like 500 000 acres in central california when he was a child and I'm like all that stuff a lot of people don't have that as a starting point. Um, and I did. I did that analogy. Have you and I talked about the monopoly game analogy? I'm not sure. Remind me. I'm gonna share it because anybody watching it's it's. It was very helpful and I feel like it's an easy way to explain it to other people. Maybe you'll use it with that cranky uncle at thanksgiving this year or christmas.
Speaker 1But the idea of playing monopoly because we've all played monopoly and you have to pass go once before you start buying property, right? So imagine being somebody that's playing monopoly with a group of friends. Only you have to go around the board five or ten times before you can start buying anything. How competitive is that going to make you? How are you going to feel? This is that's what I asked the, the guy that I was talking to. I'm like how are you going to feel if you have to go around the board five times before you could start buying things and everybody else is buying right off the bat? He's like, well, I'm going to feel pretty bitter. I was like, oh yeah, interesting, um.
Speaker 1But yeah that's the idea of a privilege. You know you've gotten a leg up that other people haven't gotten, that you didn't earn. It was just by luck, pure happenstance, that you were born into the body you were born into, into the family that you were born into, into the geography that you were born into, you know, like just luck.
Speaker 2Just luck. Yeah yeah, it's crazy. I just interviewed a doctor of psychology about ADD in girls and it even occurs there where, if you, they did a study where boys and girls' names were changed in case files to determine who got services, and if there was a boy's name they got services and if there was a girl's name, they did get the services. Same exact factual scenario wow.
Speaker 2Yeah. So it happens all over the place and and and nobody. It's not malicious, it's not, you know, nobody's intending to deprive. Well, I shouldn't say nobody's. A lot of people are not intending to deprive others of of something, of some proof, of some benefit, it just happens Right. And then there are those who do intend to deprive others.
Speaker 1Yeah, and that's a whole another there's intention and then there's conditioning or habit. Right, it's the way we've always done it right unconscious bias.
Speaker 2Yeah, thanks for putting them in the keywords um yeah, so, as we go into this thanksgiving holiday, um, you know we've covered a lot of ground here. Uh, we covered. Well, we talked about total tangent of glasses, but we did talk about two important subjects. One how to find um gratitude right, just finding, maybe taking small steps, finding something that we appreciate and letting it eclipse those other feelings that we can.
Speaker 2Yeah, and then it starts to show up everywhere. Instead of it being something that we have to go out and locate, it starts just showing up. And then we talked talked a little bit more about keeping it real, you know, when we're whether we're in a coach space or a therapist space or just in a human space of like just keeping it real and and sharing when we can and being transparent when we're struggling, or if it's difficult, um, that it's not all awesome all the time and that can be a real moment of vulnerability, but also a moment of connection.
Speaker 1Yeah, and even if you're not in a coaching or therapeutic space, but you're just struggling, like be mindful, like there's a lot of stuff going on right now. So give yourself a little grace and check in with yourself. Maybe that is part of what's, you know, blocking you or being an obstacle. I know when we first talked about that, I'm like, oh, we should talk about having difficult conversations since the holidays are coming up, but that was literally one of our other episodes already, so we've already talked about that.
Speaker 2We did talk about that.
Speaker 1So go back and listen to that, yeah, so, as we're wrapping up, because I feel like, yeah, we're at the half hour, what's going on with you of looking at retooling my podcast, so that'll be relaunching in the new year.
Speaker 2I'm still getting out some really good episodes, so it's not like that's not happening, but I'm really excited about that and still have some live breathwork stuff going on around town and have some coaching going on, so that's pretty exciting. And what else? Oh, I have online. I was like, yeah, online breathwork this Thursday, 530 Pacific, and folks can sign up on my website, the fully mindfulcom, and it's going to be a really good one. It is actually on gratitude and release and it does incorporate a little bit about, I think, what we've all been experiencing this last couple of weeks. So I hope you'll join me there.
Speaker 1Yes, I'm going to be there and I will. I know you shared the link with me, so I'll be sharing that on my socials in the next few days. Um, what's going on with you? Oh well, I already glowed, glowed up my show. You sure did so I am.
Speaker 1Um, my goal is to put uh, put out weekly episodes. I used to be a bi-weekly podcast. My mouth is not working today. Bi-weekly podcast Now, I would like to be a weekly podcast and that is my goal. However, I am keeping in mind that there's a lot of stuff going on in the world and, giving myself grace, I'm going to work as hard as I can, but whatever happens happens, and I just remember how much I love doing that, the actual interviewing part. I'm not as excited about the editing and the promoting, but I do love the actual interview part. So I'm excited to get back to that, kind of teased a little bit that I'm starting that Friday newsletter yeah, for recommendations, cause I feel like a lot of people are always asking what should I, what are you watching, what are you for the weekend? Give people ideas for?
Speaker 1I'm, of course, going to have my podcast episode, but I will be recommending other podcasts, or books, or um, um, you know documentaries, tv shows, so if you have any of those, you know documentaries, tv shows, so if you have any of those, be sure to send them my way so I can recommend them to everybody.
Speaker 2And then, what else is going on with?
Speaker 1me. I'm working on my first ever Black Friday offer. Ooh, what's that going to have? It's going to be a personalized vision statement. So you have tried the New Year's resolution, you have tried the New Year's intention, you have tried the new year's intention word. Maybe you've even made a vision board. Now you can try personalized vision statement, and I'm I'm actually building it as a course, so like a electronic pointing at my computer. So it'll be like there's tech involved, which is why it's taking me a little longer, but I'm excited because it'll just. It'll be there. If you ever want it, it's there, um, and in addition, you'll get like 52 affirmations to work with throughout the year as well.
Speaker 1Wow, that's, that's really awesome yeah, I'm pretty excited about it. Um, yeah, so that's that's. That's what's up with me, that's what's up with you, and I know you and I know we had people joining us, but since I don't have my glasses you can't I couldn't say hi to anybody, but remember, these aren't real glasses so I can't just protect me from the blue light. Like it looks like there's people here, but I have no idea who it is hi, friends, I think audra is here for sure.
Speaker 2I think I can see that name.
Speaker 1But um, yes, hi, yes and hi friends who are watching this later yes, um, yes, yeah. So this is it. Tangents of the sidebar. We're gonna record live on instagram. Maybe in the new year we'll come up with an actual schedule. For now it's here.
Speaker 2You know when we, when we both have time which is like very consistent actually with tangents and sidebar.
Speaker 1The theme of tangents and sidebar be totally random we just show up when we can um, and then it'll be on both of our podcast feeds also, so yes all the places.
Speaker 2As long as you figure that out, it will go there. It will live there, awesome. Well, I hope everyone has a beautiful Thanksgiving and that you find something to appreciate in every day and on Thanksgiving, of course.
Speaker 1Yes, and you can find reasons to be appreciative and grateful even if you don't celebrate thanksgiving yeah, yeah, exactly every day all right, I'm gonna try and end this now. Okay, see you later.