The Fully Mindful with Melissa Chureau
The Fully Mindful podcast explores what it is to be fully mindful and present in our everyday lives, uncover our worth and discover our purposes. Host of TFM, Melissa Chureau is a neurodivergent lawyer, mindfulness teacher, and embodiment and breathwork coach. On TFM, Melissa interviews inspiring creatives, wellness leaders, and social disruptors about how they have discovered their purpose(s), authentic wellness, and the value of their work on the world at large.
Support this podcast: https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=EAKLA3JNCEAV8
The Fully Mindful with Melissa Chureau
Spirituality and the Responsibility to Social Justice | A Conversation with Rev. Dr. David Alexander
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Engaging with spirituality is deeply connected to our responsibility towards social justice. Rev. Dr. David Alexander, a thought leader in the New Thought Movement, joins Melissa of The Fully Mindful to explore how spiritual principles act not only as personal guides but also as catalysts for societal change. Addressing topics like the importance of community and the realistic intersections of spirituality and social justice, this discussion is a beacon for anyone feeling lost or isolated in today's chaotic world.
Rev. Dr. Alexander shares his personal journey, illustrating how a commitment to oneness leads us directly to respond to the suffering and injustices around us. Through powerful narratives and actionable insights, we highlight the essential steps to transform spiritual practices into collective action. Whether you’re searching for belonging, seeking to activate change, or simply wanting to understand the depth of mindfulness philosophy, this episode offers something for everyone.
In this episode:
• Defining the New Thought Movement and its historical significance
• Rev. Dr. Alexander's personal journey into ministry and spirituality
• The intersection of spirituality and social justice in today's society
• Importance of community in fighting isolation and division
• Actionable steps for listeners to engage in activism through spirituality
• The need for rest and recalibration amidst societal challenges
• Encouragement to embrace difficult conversations in spiritual contexts
• Reflecting on connectedness and communal responsibility
• Resources for further engagement and learning in social justice issues
If you found this episode valuable, please subscribe, leave a review, or share with someone who would appreciate it.
Find out more about Rev. Dr. David Alexander and his work:
http://www.revdavidalexander.com/home
Join the Fully Mindful Community: ✨ Subscribe & Review: If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify—it helps others find the show!
✨ Stay Connected: Follow @the_fully_mindful on Instagram for mindfulness tips, breathwork insights, and more!
✨ Free Breathwork Sessions: Email me at info@thefully.mindful.com to get signed up for your first session for free of my monthly Unwind Your Mind session.
Welcome to Fully Mindful Podcast
Speaker 1Welcome to the Fully Mindful Podcast. I'm your host, melissa. I designed this podcast for you. I'm so happy you're here. We are talking about what it means to live with more intention, creativity and authenticity, so we can make aligned connections. I'm a neurodivergent lawyer turned coach who found the healing power of breathwork and the powerful impact of mindfulness as we navigate this wild and beautiful ride of life. Here at the Fully Mindful, we dive deep with inspiring guests, share solo mini-sodes that are packed with tools you can apply immediately, and I mix it up a bit with tangents and sidebars where my friend and host of the New World Normal podcast, debbie Harrell, joins us for some down to earth, sometimes random but always meaningful conversations. If you're ready to breathe, reflect and grow, you're in the right place. Let's get fully mindful, all right.
Speaker 1Well, today I have the honor of speaking with Reverend Dr David Alexander, a distinguished New Thought minister and author dedicated to the fusion of spirituality and social justice, currently leading the Spiritual Living Center of Atlanta.
Speaker 1Reverend Dr Alexander has a rich history of ministry, including co-founding, with a number of others, the New Thought Center for Spiritual Living here in Oregon, where I'm at and where I have attended His recent book Freedom from Discord. The Promise of New Thought Liberation Theology offers a very compelling exploration of how spiritual principles can serve as a foundation for societal transformation. But before we dive into his book, we're going to take a step back, because many of you listeners may not be familiar with the New Thought Movement. What it is? Where did it come from? How did it shape the way that Reverend Dr Alexander sees the world? We'll cover all of that, as well as the role of spirituality and social change, how to stay engaged in difficult times and what it's like to lead a congregation in today's deeply divided world. So let's get started. Thank you for being here, reverend Alexander. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2Thank you, melissa, great to see you, great to be here. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1For those listening. I used to be part of the congregation with Reverend David Alexander and had the privilege of hearing his message, and I am very honored to have him here on the podcast to talk about this today and was sad to see him go, although of course the ministry there at the New Thought Center for Spiritual Living in Lake Oswego goes on. But thank you for being here to talk today.
Speaker 2Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1For those who may not be familiar, and there may be quite a few, can you tell us, just for the newcomer here, what is the New Thought movement?
Speaker 2Yeah, absolutely, it's a rich history. And actually I've just been assigned a project for Science of Mind magazine to write about our history for new readers, so that's a good reminder. I need to get back to that draft that I have. But New Thought goes back about 150 years. Turn of the century.
Meet Melissa, Your Host
Speaker 218th, 19th century came out of a kind of a fusion of several different things that were emerging in young America at that time and those things were what we call the mind cure movement, which eventually kind of led to modern psychology, mind over matter kind of thinking. A progressive Christian movement which continues today and really goes back to the first century, earliest followers of Jesus. And so when we say progressive Christian we mean metaphysical or non-literal translation of scripture, open and inclusive, which can be a wide range of how that might show up, and really based on love and justice and community. That's how I would loosely define that. So the mind care movement, progressive christianity and transcendental, transcendental movement, and so most people are pretty much familiar with that one, Emerson and Thoreau, and each of those things kind of brought different gifts together. So looking at the Transcendentalists brought this idea that God is not just in a church, or this energy, this intelligence is certainly not just Christian. It's everywhere, it's in everything, it's in the earth, it's in nature, it's all around us. And Emerson and others were really committed to that idea and they were very, very curious about other traditions and as soon as they got their hands on translations I talk about 1850s, 1840s they got translations of the Upanishads and other Eastern scriptures. They were fascinated and they got together of the Upanishads and other Eastern scriptures. They were fascinated and they got together in Boston, started reading it, started sharing it, started dissecting it, and so we get that kind of universal lens and approach from them.
Speaker 2From the progressive Christians, we get again this idea of love and metaphorical translation of scripture, which has been around since the first century. And from the mind-care movement we get this idea of mind over matter, positive thinking, power of affirmations, power of our word to shape our reality and experience, and you kind of mush all those things together. You know, you've seen those videos on TikTok or Instagram where they take the colored balls of something and mush them together and they make a new color right. So new thought is the blend of those three things against a backdrop. I would say those three things against a backdrop of universal wisdom, which means that there are sort of traces of new thought, thinking that you find in the Greek philosophies, that you find in hermetic teachings, that you find in native first-person spirituality, that you find in Africa spirituality and hoodoo and things of that nature. So there's a broad universal kind of scope to it as well. So today it really attracts kind of what we would call the spiritual but not religious crowd or the non-religiously affiliated or simply the spiritual seeker.
Speaker 1Right, yeah, I think that's what attracted me. You know I first was attracted to it during the first Trump administration. I'm affiliated with 12 Step and Recovery and so you know already had a spiritual practice and a deep meditation practice and really needed. I felt like I needed something more. You know, I needed something a little bit deeper and I needed a community of people that were on the same page. But I did not need what I, at least up to that moment, had been accustomed to or had knowledge of religion that had wounded me, at least in the past, and had wounded so many others. And so I was attracted to New Thought because of its broad openness and it seemed to me a non-affiliation with any particular fundamentalist belief system. It seemed very open and roomy, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1Yeah, and that's definitely the experience I had and still have and very much appreciate, and I think it's really important for people to understand that that's available, you know, should people need or want that experience.
Speaker 2Yeah, absolutely yeah. You say something really important there, which is, you know, coming out of the experience of the first Trump administration, of your needing something more. I'm really struck by just the phrase you know that particular phrasing needing something more, because I think that we're going into a second wave of that. We have whatever brings us peace and solace, where we get our news or whatever our tribe is, but we have also entered a hyper individualistic and kind of isolationist time. Covid certainly was a part of that, but also just generationally, in technology, we spent so much time on our phone.
Speaker 2There's a great article and I think the most recent edition, or might be the last edition, of the Atlantic magazine that talks about how lonely we are. It's all about we spend all this time on devices and we're, quote unquote more connected than we've ever been, but we're also more alone than we've ever been, because even if we're on a social media platform engaging with other people, we're doing it alone. We're in our house on our couch or in front of our TV, so we're doing it alone. Or we're watching news 24 seven, but we're doing it alone.
Speaker 2And this idea of how much time we spend in isolation, even if it's doing things that might, technologically, are considered social. So that really struck me. It's like, oh, I think that's going to sort of wear itself out, if it hasn't already, In order for us to survive, you know, and not just survive but thrive. And even the researchers that make a lot about how this idea that religion is dead or church is, you know, passe, it's old. Gen X is not going to church, and all of that and the other generations, and you know there's a lot of conversation about that. You know, I think over a thousand churches a year close and so on and so forth, and I think we really need each other right now, you know. So, whether it's churches or whether it's, you know, I don't know that Pickleball Club will do it, you know. I mean it might.
Speaker 1I mean, it's maybe a start, yeah it's a start.
Speaker 2It's getting you out of your house, so I'm not knocking it, you know. But that's that idea that you know we're just, we're going to need each other, we're going to need to find and create community. I'm one of the old fashioned ones that you know. Don't give up on church too fast, you know. Like that, just having that nice beautiful place to have a potluck and connect with people and do a little bit of spiritual practice and refresh during the week is not such a bad thing after all.
Speaker 1It really isn't, and it's a way and, however you do it, you know whether somebody is in 12 step or in some sort of mindfulness meditation meeting or a new thought or unity, or whatever you do, whatever works for you, just having that community and that sense of belongingness. That's so important. We've become so divided and so divisive and, like you said, so lonely and alone that when we have that connection, even those very minimal connections, I think there was something maybe also out of the connections. I think there was something maybe also out of the Atlantic, I think during the pandemic and they were talking about and there was a bunch of research about people having these even minimal connections, like with the Starbucks or the local cafe barista.
Speaker 1Those passing moments with people we don't even know are really incredibly important, right, just having that connection with another human being. We are social creatures and we need to have those connections with people to feel a part of and it's really important. And part of the reason we're in this mess, I believe, is because people have felt so divided and alone and separate from other people. So maybe you could tell us a little bit about how you got to be on this journey. Anyway, welcome to Oregon.
Speaker 2Oregon doing what Oregon does?
Speaker 1Yes, At any rate, maybe you could tell us a little bit about your story, your personal story and your journey to New Thought and ministry, because I think it's a really interesting one.
Exploring the New Thought Movement
Speaker 2Yeah, so you know, and it ties right into what we were talking about, because my story really begins with my mother's story. She was, you know, was a single mom. My older brother was five or six at the time and I was just a baby and she was working in Arizona and a co-worker. Out of her, sensing my mom's struggles and loneliness and meeting something she grew up Catholic and Protestant in the Midwest and was really searching and looking for something different Was a coworker who said here, you might like this, and she handed her a copy of Science of Mind magazine and in fact I think the story goes that she would actually make copies of the daily.
Speaker 2Science of Mind magazine has like a daily reading and, you know, an affirmation and everything, a short little story. And so she would make a copy of that daily reading and leave it on her desk. And then my mom inquired like, oh, I really like this, you know where's this come from, and so that kind of broached the friendship that they created and they're still friends to this day and, you know, eventually invited her to church. So I always consider it an honor as I write a monthly column for Science of Mind magazine.
Speaker 2Now that that's where the journey began, and so it ties into what we were talking about that it took somebody, you know, reaching out, sharing something and saying you know, if this, if you might like this, this might work for you, come to my community, let's go together and try it out. And she did, and she liked it, and so that's how I got into it. So I grew up in it, and how that shaped me was, you know, I always say it's hard to rebel against oneness. Most people don't stick with the tradition they grew up with. They rebel against it.
Speaker 1True, yeah.
Speaker 2And so when you grow up with this idea that God is all there is this intelligent universe that is showing up as everything, it's kind of hard to run away from that. I'm going to rebel and go do this. I was like, okay, I'm going to go be a Buddhist or whatever. There was no resistance. It was just like, oh great, yeah, you should go explore that. Tell us what you learned, you know, come back in six months and teach a class, you know. And so I never had that desire to rebel against it, because it always left me with so much depth to explore both myself and the world.
Speaker 2This lens, it's a lens. I think that I look through a spiritual lens to view politics and life and relationships and health and just everything, and the depth of that has not disappointed me yet. There's always something new to explore in consciousness. And so, growing up, I went to teen camps and young adult programs and all the things, and just one thing led to another and I just kept wanting to serve, I just kept wanting to give back and I just had a deep sense that this teaching really saved my life in a lot of ways. I just said, well, what can?
Speaker 2I was a social worker, I worked at treatment tech facilities for adolescents and you know a lot of things of that nature. But I realized, no matter what I did I did stand up comedy, you know export all kinds of things, I worked in food service that even if you're successful at this, that you're not really fully giving back what you've been given. You know, like that was sort of the sense that I had in my spiritual practice, in my meditation work, and so one day I just kind of asked it was like well, what, how can I give back to this which has given me everything? And the answer was everything give, give me everything. I was like oh, oh, just that.
Speaker 2Yeah, okay, yeah, just that, oh, okay, wow. And so that led to taking more classes in the church and eventually becoming what we call a practitioner a prayer practitioner to counseling and praying with folks, and that led to ministerial school. Prayer practitioner to counseling and praying with folks, and that led to ministerial school. And so it was in St Louis initially and then came out and took a job as a youth minister in Oregon a big church there and then that eventually led a few years later to the opening of the center we were part of there in Lake Oswego. And that has now been from that time to now. It's been 20 years, over 20.
Speaker 1Yeah and no. Looking back, it seems like yeah. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's, it's something right. I mean it's not a lot of us. I think not a lot of us stop and ask okay, universe, whatever, God, whatever we believe in, what am I supposed to do? We think, what do I want to do, what makes the most sense to do, what's going to be supportive of my family, and those are all legit, right. But very few of us ask, like, what am I here to do, right?
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1And then let's just assume we do that, that we actually have the courage to go do it. You know that's yeah. So thank you for doing that, for actually listening to that and actually then going and doing it.
Speaker 2Yeah, and that's the path going and doing it. Yeah, and that's the path. It's that call to listen to your own intuition and to your own inner wisdom and to that which is bigger than you are. That it's calling you forward. I think for everybody there is that thing. There's that thing that is calling you forward in your relationship, in your family, in your career, in whatever slice of life you want to look at it. That's calling you to be and to do and to stretch more and if we listen to that, it leads to some pretty wonderful places. But it's definitely scary and frightening along the way and it comes with quote unquote risks or certainly sacrifices. But yeah, yeah, what else are you going to do? Once you hear it and you really get it, you're like, oh, okay.
Speaker 1I guess I got to do it. Yeah Well, I want to talk a bit about your book, which I'm going to show it for people. It's a little thin, but I'll tell you what it's not thin for ideas. I mean holy smokes from the get go. It's a little thin, but I'll tell you what it's not thin for ideas. I mean holy smokes from the get go. It's just, it's rich and it's not like, oh, I'm just going to read this light self-help book. No, it's not that.
Rev. Dr. David Alexander Joins Us
Speaker 2It's not a self-help book. This light theological thesis.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's pretty big. So your book does make the case that spirituality I'm going to take a stab, okay, so that spirituality and justice are deeply connected and I don't think I'm taking a leap there, because you kind of come out and say that and you're open about that. So why I mean why and how do you think that is, if you can get to the heart of it right there.
Speaker 2Yeah, well, you know it goes back to what we understand as new thought or, if we just leave the labels off of it for a second, just the spiritual path of humanity. So a lot of people you know choose a religion or a structure. You know religion means the root word of religion is to bind, to bind to an ideology, to tie ourselves to that which is a practice. But then a lot of those spiritual seekers that we were who really don't care whether it's religious or not or all the other trappings that come with that, but are really interested in the spirituality aspect of it, which is great, that work and the new thought movement became very popular through, really beginning in the 1940s, I would say even through all the way through the 90s.
Speaker 2There was a good 50-year period that was really strong for New Thought. That was marked by American capitalism and the drive of individuals to succeed and be their best and get your own, get your house and picket fence and two cars in the garage and the dog, like the whole thing, Right, Right and and capitalism and all of that and new thoughts spoke into that world. Like you as an individual deserve to have all these things, and here's how you can manifest it.
Speaker 2Yeah, you can manifest it and yeah, all that. I don't have no problem with people being self fulfilled and expert, fully expressed and happy in their life. That's a wonderful thing. To have a spiritual tradition that speaks life into that. The question becomes For what, right? So for me, I've been on this journey my whole life. I didn't come into it at 35 or 40 or even at 50, somewhere else, like a lot of people do, after leaving a job or a relationship or whatever, and searching and seeking, I just grew up in this awareness. And it was like this awareness that you are one with this divine power and and it moves through you and you can create and manifest your life and you have access to this power. And so, if that's my first language, my I've got a friend here is actually a New Thought Pentecostal minister, so that's a whole different episode, but he calls me neo from the matrix. You know you were born in this right, you didn't come into it. You're like you are born of this new reality. You know we're all trying to get a grasp of and, and so for me it was became second nature. If that my beginning language was just this oneness consciousness, then the next question is okay, for for what, now, what? And now that I know all that and I have all these skills that I can use to create the life I want, well, what good does it do me to create the life I want while my neighbors are suffering, the world is on fire or that? We're, you know, like that? And if I'm just doing my daily spiritual practice, which includes grounding myself in an awareness of my oneness with all life, well, if that moves just a little bit from the head to the heart, then oneness isn't just that. Oh, there's an energy that connects me to everything, but that, oh no, I really am one, and it becomes a dawning, an awakening in your consciousness. Actually, you really are one with everything, including that guy you just passed who was outside of your windshield at the stoplight, and including that story you saw on the news about you know who's suffering and wherever. And we got tons of things we could fill in the blank there with. So to me it was about expanding out from the heart into the collective and, and not moving away from individual success or any of that, but expanding that, that oneness out.
Speaker 2In the book I call it the radical implication. What's the radical implication of our teaching? What's the radical implication of our philosophy or theology or whatever word you want to use? What's the radical implication of oneness or the radical implication of peace or justice or wholeness or anything else? And what I discovered was that Christianity, judaism, islam, all the major religions have a huge social component to them, and there wasn't a lot of language about that in New Thought, but there was an emerging of that in our in, you know, the leader, myself as a leader, and other leaders. We were talking more and more about that, but there wasn't any text to reference it. Ernest Holmes didn't write a lot about it, some of the other New Thought authors didn't write a lot about it, and so I thought there's something missing here.
Speaker 2We keep having the debate like amongst ourselves, like clergy, get behind closed doors and we go. You know, are we a social justice teaching? Are we supposed to be doing that? Because for any listeners who might be saying, well, what's the conflict? The conversation was moving from the inside out. If you just focus on your individual consciousness, then everything else will take care of itself, and that don't focus on external conditions, because that's a distraction, like that's kind of the old school thing Don't get, don't go, don't get distracted by, say, the status of your bank account. You know, don't get distracted by that, because that's just the world appearing the way it's appearing. Get connected inside to the abundance that's within you, and then that's change.
Speaker 2So it's okay. Okay, I get that, but again, the radical implication of oneness. Shouldn't we be seeing evidence of that? If we've spent all this time in this oneness grounding, shouldn't we be seeing, aren't you moved by your prayer and your meditation? You know, for again, for the individual, if you're focusing on your abundance or your health, or perfect relationship or whatever, doesn't, at some point that change your behavior?
Speaker 2right start managing your money differently, or you start showing up in your relationship differently and you start, you know like what? What's the external effect of that? And the external effect of that is that things don't just magically change because you focused on it. They change because it changes you and you start behaving differently, and and so, for me, I was looking for that, but where is the evidence of that and where are we talking about how that works? And so, theologically, all of that word salad that just came out of me is really liberation theology. And so I just said, well, we need to stop having behind closed doors, to having the debate, and let's just start writing about our teaching from that perspective, which nobody else had done. I wasn't the only one that thought that way, but there was no right. There was nothing to grasp on or to direct students or ministerial folks or leadership or any anybody to to say, well, here, here's, read this, and now let's get back together and discuss it. So I said, well, I'll start.
Speaker 1Better write a book I know I was just looking at and what's great about this book for the listeners is it really is that book and I was looking at. I had marked one page and it's page 112. And I'm just going to read one paragraph, if that's okay.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, I'm going to get mine and follow along.
Speaker 1Yeah, follow along Page 112. Yeah, follow along page 112, and it's below a quote. You've quoted James Cone, Black Theology, Black Power, where he had said philosophy is personal, theology is communal. And then you wrote as long as we insist that our teaching is only relevant at the personal level, we will remain impotent to address social ills and, as a result, increasingly irrelevant. It's not that personal success, achievement and empowerment work is no longer important. Quite the opposite. Such work is as important as it ever was or has been, but the work of personal development must occur in tandem with social and community work. Failure to recognize this fact positions our teaching in a posture of private good, a position defined by privilege. It is time for us to enter the age of first person plural. As the saying goes, none of us are free until all of us are free. And then, for those who are following along, your book has throughout it reflection questions you know, so this is meant to be something that is done together, which I love, right?
Relevance of Spirituality in Today's Society
Speaker 1so it's not just meant to, you know, I mean you can just read it by yourself if you want, but it's meant to be done in a group, you know, so that you can talk about it with others. And I was just struck by that particular paragraph that you know ends with that quote that saying none of us are free until all of us are free. And that's exactly what you were talking about, that like we are not just doing this just for our own benefit. We have to start talking about this and doing things so that it benefits all of us, because, regardless of what we believe, what we think, what we do impacts everyone around us, which, in turn, impacts ourselves. Right, right, we are one right, that's it.
Speaker 2Thomas Merton said no man is an island you know, it's that idea that we're all connected.
Speaker 2So what again? What good does it do? So wave a magic wand there you have. You've manifested, you've done law of attraction or whatever, or yoga, meditation or whatever else you did to get your enlightenment. And now you've got all the things your heart's desire. Boom, you know, like the Buddha. I mean that's what.
Speaker 2Siddhartha was sitting under the Bodhi tree wondering about the suffering of the world and he had. He came from opulence and came from he's like. He had everything, he had it all. He didn't need to go and sit there and contemplate all those things, but it what drove him to the meditation practice was well, why do I have all of this if everybody outside the palace is suffering? What good does that do me? And so that drove him to that.
Speaker 2So if we imagine ourselves having all the things that we want, how do you get those things? Who delivers the groceries? We saw during the pandemic? You know? How do things get to the grocery store? Who picks the lettuce in the field? Who you know? Who flies the plane that you take on your vacation, that you've got more than enough money to do, you know twice a year, or whatever? You know like, whatever it is, it's your heart's desire. Like it is, it is interdependent on a whole network of people, places and things working economically, socially, etc. Coming together to, quote-unquote create your independent life the way you want it. Right right, it's not independent at all. It's completely dependent on all these other things coming together.
Speaker 1Exactly, Exactly. And then I mean that is precisely why, when we're driving and we stop at the intersection and we see the unhoused person suffering, why it is so difficult to look at them.
Speaker 2Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1Because, we're human and we see the suffering, and it is hard to witness the suffering without actually doing something about it.
Speaker 2So now we have this moral responsibility, don't we Right?
Speaker 1So how I mean it can be overwhelming as it is. I mean right now in particular. Right, there's so much going on and we're just inundated with suffering and divisiveness, and I mean it's chaotic out there. So for anyone who's listening, who wants to take some action in some way, you know, on a through a spiritual lens of some sort, but they don't know where to start. Where do they start?
Speaker 2Oh, wow, you know I posted something on my, on my sub stack a while back about that, Like how do we navigate this this time that we're in? And I think the first thing I said was around education, you know. So be mindful of you know, because I, as you know, a member of my congregation for a while there. That you know I always teach from where I'm coming from.
Speaker 1Yes.
Speaker 2I can only teach what you know. I'm living out in my own life, and so I was reflecting on my own journey, like how am I going to do this? What am I going to do now, with all this chaos going on? Because I had my desire to consume news, which is already pretty high, had just tanked after the.
Speaker 1I was just like I don't want to watch any of it, you know and I'm just like forget it, like I just can't, and it literally hurt.
Speaker 2It was like painful for a while and then I was like okay, I can't just do nothing, I can't just watch nothing. I got to be engaged somehow, and so that became the first step. It was like be mindful of what you're consuming and where you're consuming it from, and there's lots of good, healthy choices out there. But what I started doing was I started reading more and watching less.
Speaker 1Yes.
Speaker 2Because the television news, no matter what source you take it from, you know there's a narrative that is driving. You know those sources. Breaking news moniker is used way too much Everything is breaking news.
Speaker 1It is, isn't it? That's all I ever see Breaking news.
Speaker 2Next thing, next thing. So there's this addiction cycle. You know thing it is, isn't it? That's all I ever see Breaking news, next thing, next thing. So there's this addiction cycle, you know thing. You know PBS is a little better about those things, and the BBC, you know. We watch sometimes that in our house and it's so funny because you know they're kind of their mellow voices and their accent and everything and it's like completely. It's like the same news story but it's a completely different tone.
Speaker 1It's a whole different experience.
Speaker 2Yeah, so, whether Al Jazeera or you know just some other source, you know, be mindful of that, the sources, and so for me it was less television and more reading as a way to just, you know, make sure that I'm not inundated with somebody else's tonality of the narrative. And then it was, you know, activate, you know, to find something to do, to not just do nothing. But there's phone calls you can make. There's, you know, just, there's lots of different things. I think there's a website called call five. Call five, I think, gives you the issues, the information. I'll fill in.
Speaker 2There's lots of other advocacy groups like well, where you are, basic Rights, oregon, here it's Georgia, equality, human Rights Campaign, hrc is nationwide and there's state organizations. So, whatever issue you care about, there's probably some advocacy agency that's doing something, the ACLU, and they'll give you easy ways to connect and make your voice heard and express something, so that you feel like you're actively doing something. And because it's one little drop, you know, it's like well, but it's just a drop. It's like well, yeah, but the grand canyon was, you know, a rock, but it was just a drop, you know that. And one drop adds to another, adds to another and carves out, you know, seemingly immovable objects, and so educate, activate. The third step was rest.
Speaker 1So important yes.
Speaker 2I'm not a big conspiracy theory person, but you know they could be any side or all sides if you want, but just you know, just whatever they is for you, they're depending on us being drained, being worn out, you know, being overwhelmed, being being exhausted, and it's easy to get there to into all those places if you allow yourself. And so rest and self-care and, and you know, playing this for the long haul is really, really important. I had said something on another podcast recently and it was an African-American woman justice leader who was leading it and part of her community, and I said you know, how do I pace myself? Cause she was talking about pace yourselves and most of her community is African-American. And I said how do I pace myself? Because she was talking about pace yourselves and most of her community is african-american. And I said how do I pace myself? You know, this was several weeks ago, during all of this emergency. Everything's a crisis, you know, and her response was she goes, yeah, but it's not she said here's the thing.
Speaker 2She said everything's an emergency for white-bodied people. Right, that was one of my. I was like, oh she, yeah, for the rest of us, another day, another dollar, it's been like this for a long time.
Speaker 2You know, and I knew that I have black children. My wife is from zambia, so there's more awakeness around that in my household than might be otherwise, and attention. So I knew that in terms of uh, my level of outrage about things police brutality and things like that I'm like no, we just need to roll up our sleeves and do the work. It's not about being on social media and being outraged about it. I knew it at that level. But when she said it just about everything else politically she was like yeah, no, it's an emergency for you. You're panicked.
Speaker 2You know the last administration wasn't that much better for us, right? You know administration before we were here before, this is this guy's second round. You know we'll go back to Reagan and talk about that if you want. You know, like she was, just like we can go all the way. So rest, take care of yourself, pace for the long haul, because you know we're trying to bend the arc here of justice, right, and it's going to take time and so that sense of we got to do it all right, now. There's definitely something to do now for sure. Do that and take care of yourself, you know. So educate, activate, rest and then recalibrate was the last one.
Speaker 2Recalibrate, and that was about kind of where our conversation started. Get in community, whether that's church or spiritual community or yoga or some other group, but get with other bodies and doing a practice of some kind. It could be knitting and a book study group or something that allows you to recalibrate and reset, and so it's self-care, but it's at the communal level, like do it with other people, right, and I will keep advocating for spaces like church or spiritual communities because there's a chance that you know it will be intergenerational, hopefully multicultural. You know that can be a hard find sometimes and maybe even some people that didn't vote the way you did are in that same congregation, right? Yeah, the point is, the more you're with a group like that, that opportunity to have conversation with a diverse mix of people and backgrounds and age groups and all of that is really important for your whole psychosocial mindset and just to reset and recalibrate.
Speaker 1I like that and you know I found I did some traveling over the summer into different parts of still the West Coast, but different parts of the West Coast which are really different politically the West Coast, but different parts of the West Coast which are really different politically and one of the things that I tried to do was to find common ground with people who I could. It was very obvious they were very different politically for me, and it was fascinating because we're radically different, and that is true in many ways, but we're also radically the same in many, many ways, and so trying to find those similarities, rather than just the differences, and finding those common grounds was very healing for me and, I'd wager, for the other person as well, and so I think that's a really important message that you're talking about is trying to find those people that might have voted differently and might have different views and seeing what kind of common ground there might be there.
Speaker 2I think it's really important and that's certainly. I've seen reactions to things like this on social media. I'm certainly not saying you need to make friends with people who hold views that that put your life or your children or you know, based on your orientation or your gender or nationality or anything like that, at risk. You know, like boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.
Speaker 1Definitely not.
Speaker 2You do not have to be friends with somebody who wants to degregate your humanity Absolutely not. But again, I think there's a lot of space between that boundary and having conversation with people who think differently than you and realizing that you know you shop at the same grocery stores and your food comes from the same place, and you're you know like we all need clean water. You know that kind of thing.
Speaker 1Exactly no. I think that's really important because otherwise it you can get really overwhelmed and if you stay connected, if you recalibrate, if you find ways to activate, like you said, if you rest, you know we're going to get through whatever this is right, I have to believe that yeah I have to believe that.
Speaker 2And if we take the long view, the historical view I mean, we've made it through a lot of things, and certainly I mean I'm Gen X, so I believe this is the the most perilous space that democracy has been in during my lifetime, but not my parents and not my grandparents.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2You know, there have been other spaces in our history and so, yeah, we have to pay attention, we have to keep our eye on what's happening and do our part, and that activation is so important. I heard something the other day I don't remember who said it, so I'm going to attribute it to anonymous but I thought it was really brilliant. Hope without action is just privilege in disguise.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, it's just privilege in disguise yeah yeah, because it was somebody was like well, I have hope, and and. And the conversation was like well, okay, what are you doing? What are you doing to help right now? And it was like it's great that feel hopeful, but make sure you're doing your part, whatever. That is Because hope without action is just, you know, it's like that Just get to sit back and just kind of let it all do its thing and quote unquote have hope, wow, that's nice.
Speaker 1And we all have our part right now. Yeah, yeah, kind of getting back to new thought. What do you think new thoughts part is in all of this.
The Intersection of Spirituality and Social Justice
Speaker 2Well, this is, you know, if ever there's a hill to die on, you know, like that's kind of that would be my prologue to the book, right? The book came out about a year ago and lots of people are having study groups in churches around the country, which is great, and I'm writing some curriculum for ministerial school, and those are all things that I wanted to have happen with it, so I'm thrilled about that. One of the things I talk about in the book are these myths that we have to get over, and one of the biggest ones is this fear that you know, because New Thought, by and large, is mostly white, mostly middle to upper class, mostly Protestant-informed backgrounds and, you know, I would say, a mix of conservative and liberal, depending on where in the country. But when you combine all that together, one of the things that lives very strongly similar to in other Protestant religions as well is this idea that religious spaces, or spiritual spaces, should be apolitical.
Speaker 1They should be neutral.
Speaker 2That we should be. You know we shouldn't get involved because we don't want to offend anybody and we should just focus on. You know, let's just focus on your individual spiritual work and just let the chips kind of fall where they may. And, you know, go vote and be active and go do what you know you need to do. But we're going to hold space for everybody here and that idea has been really strong in New Thought like forever.
Speaker 2And again, it's not just New Thought. There's other Protestant groups for which that is true. That, to me, is the biggest thing. Like this is the moment that is true. That, to me, is the biggest thing. Like this is the moment that is now screaming at us Like you have got to get over that because, frankly, that is a and I point out in the book that is a symptom of white slaveholder religion. White Protestant Christianity is the only religion in the world that has ever said we're supposed to be apolitical and neutral in matters.
Speaker 1It sure is convenient for that Right.
Speaker 2Right, you know, like never in the history of ever, you know, as religion it's always taken aside, and it's always taken aside for the oppressed, for the downtrodden, for the victimized, for justice, for the greatest good of all, like that's always been the position always in every culture around the world, in every tradition. And then suddenly we have this Americanized. You know, white Protestant Christianity that's like no, no, oh, let's just, let's be nice, let's not offend anybody on Sunday. What, why? And you know, new Thought adopted that mentality, and so for me, a big push in the book is like get over it, just get over it, because it's hurting us. And if you get out on those skinny branches, well, it might offend congregants. Yeah, you probably will. You could probably fill another church with the people that I've scared away.
Speaker 2I want to say this to if there's any other ministers listening, but even people. If you have a spiritual community, here's the thing you don't have to agree with your pastor all the time. I don't expect that people agree with everything that I say. I hope they don't, and I expect you to walk away and think what does that mean for you? I said this. It might've rubbed you the wrong way If it rubbed you the wrong way politically, socially, morally, whatever then I expect you to go and investigate what that is about for you. Why did that bother me? Where does that come from? And then you do your own inquiry, not? Oh, he offended me so I'm going to go find another church.
Speaker 1I'm out.
Speaker 2Like what is that? So pastors need to get over the fact that you might offend some people Let them be offended but also parishioners or participants like it's okay. You don't stop thinking that you need to be triggered. You need to be activated into your own deeper inquiry of what it is that you believe, and some of your greatest teachers will be people that poke you in the wrong places. Right, Because they invite you to go inward and think about it. So that's where we're at. Like, we need to find that moral backbone and be really strong about where we stand.
Speaker 2And if people need to leave, then let them leave, but I don't think that that's the solution. So to people who feel offended and they have a foot out the door, I would just say hang on just a second, be mad if you need to be mad, but come back next week and let's talk about it. Right, what might that world look like if you were safe? What if this place was safe enough for you to be upset and and then we could actually have a conversation yeah, yeah, what would that look like yeah, yeah anything that you wanted to talk about that we didn't get to talk about today oh gosh, probably, but't know.
Speaker 2I mean in terms of the book, and you know what I'm doing, what I'm up to. You know those are the major highlights. I would just say that you know I really get what, how kind of scary and concerning it is right now. You know I, our family, is one in which you know my wife's got the bags packed and the passports in the. You know like she's ready to go one more day. She's like one more news story, you know, and we're out of here, and that's not just you know.
Speaker 2Some people have been saying that since 2016 or whatever, but there's some realness to that in my family and I know for lots of people, because there's some ways in which some of the things that are happening are really threatening to to our sense of safety. And you know education and and what we're trying to provide for our children and trying to community communities we're trying to build. So to anybody and everybody out there who's listening, so to anybody and everybody out there who's listening, and I certainly can't tell anybody what to do in regards to that, except to pull close to each other, you know, and create community and find again because we have become so isolated and separated to, if you've disengaged from a particular kind of community, to re-engage and talk to each other and do things like this listen to podcasts and create spaces where you're learning and growing, because we will get through this one way or the other.
Speaker 1Thank you. Well, where can people find you learn more about? You read what you're writing. You have a podcast too. Too, you have all sorts of things going on. Let us know where.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah I all kinds of things I have. Rev david alexandercom is just a general website, just kind of can poke around and find everything there. Spiritual living center of atlanta is the community that's slcacom and it has all of our messages and everything that we got going on through the community there, which has a broad listening audience people all over the world and all over the country part of our community. And the space I'm most excited about is Substack. I've just recently, since January I joined back in November and wrote a few things, but it wasn't until January that things really took off. I'm so excited because it's a platform that I can do podcasts, I could do writing and that was part of my reeducation as well.
Speaker 2Like I said, I was watching less TV and reading more and so I was just started finding news, people and just different things. It was just like so refreshing to just read instead of just television consume and so I've just been loving that space and my subscribing list there is growing and I'm providing more and more and it's just been wonderful. So I connect to everything that I'm doing through Substack. I write a monthly column for Science Magazine and I write regularly for the Substack and connect all the pieces together there regularly for the sub stack and connect all the pieces together.
Speaker 2They're really building out my new book, my next book, which is a liberation lens, the liberation lens and there's kind of eight pillars or viewpoints that we're taking through that and I'm just taking them one at a time and making them short podcast episodes and then writing out the fuller chapters as I go. So if you join that you'll actually be kind of getting previews of what the new book will be all about. It's kind of the individualized version of what Freedom from Discord was, kind of the public theology, kind of communal aspect of it in terms of church work and theological constructs. And this break, the new one, we'll break it down into individual, uh spiritual quest kind of perspective so exciting it's yeah it's great to see all the work that you're doing, and thank you.
Speaker 1so that's uh rev d alexander at substackcom I'll make sure to put this yeah, all the good stuff in the show notes so people can find it. Yeah well, thank Well. Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure and I hope to have you on again. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2Thank you, take care.
Speaker 1You too. I'm going to stop the recording. Thank you for joining me on the Fully Mindful podcast. If you got value from this episode, I'd love for you to subscribe, leave a review or share this episode with someone who loved this content too. Remember, small moments of mindfulness can lead to big changes in your day-to-day life. Until next time, take a deep breath, stay present and tap into your own mindfulness.