The Fully Mindful with Melissa Chureau
The Fully Mindful podcast explores what it is to be fully mindful and present in our everyday lives, uncover our worth and discover our purposes. Host of TFM, Melissa Chureau is a neurodivergent lawyer, mindfulness teacher, and embodiment and breathwork coach. On TFM, Melissa interviews inspiring creatives, wellness leaders, and social disruptors about how they have discovered their purpose(s), authentic wellness, and the value of their work on the world at large.
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The Fully Mindful with Melissa Chureau
Reclaiming Self-Worth and Purpose with Author, Coach & Teacher Sunflower Medicine
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In this transformative episode of The Fully Mindful, host Melissa Chureau welcomes Sunflower Medicine, a renowned author, coach, and teacher, to discuss the journey of self-love, mindfulness, and expanded consciousness. Sunflower shares her deeply personal story of healing after a cancer diagnosis and how it led her to integrate mind, body, and spirit into her work. Her latest book, 21 Days of Self-Love and Mindfulness, serves as a practical guide to reclaiming self-worth and cultivating a life of presence and purpose.
Through powerful insights, Sunflower explores the challenges of living from the head versus the heart, the role of plant medicine in healing, and how simple yet profound practices like breathwork, yoga, and journaling can transform our lives. Whether you're a seasoned yogi, a high-achieving CEO, or simply someone searching for deeper meaning, this conversation offers invaluable wisdom to help you reconnect with your authentic self.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- How Sunflower Medicine’s cancer diagnosis became a catalyst for self-discovery and healing.
- The hidden blocks—fear, obligation, and guilt—that prevent us from prioritizing self-love.
- The power of integrating mind, body, and spirit for true transformation.
- Why mindfulness and self-compassion are essential, especially in high-pressure environments.
- How plant medicine, including ayahuasca, played a role in Sunflower’s healing journey.
- Simple yet effective mindfulness practices to incorporate into daily life.
- Why energy is our most valuable currency and how to manage it wisely.
Key Quotes from Sunflower Medicine:
- “I thought I was living a successful life until my body said no. That was my wake-up call.”
- “We don’t have to wait for pain to force us into transformation—we can choose self-awareness now.”
- “Clearing the FOG—Fear, Obligation, and Guilt—allows us to step into our true selves.”
- “You don’t need permission to prioritize yourself. Your energy is your most valuable resource.”
Connect with Sunflower Medicine: 🌻 Website: www.sunflowermedicine.com
📖 Books: 21 Days of Self-Love and Mindfulness & Midlife Medicine (available on Amazon)
🌿 Instagram: @sunflowermedicine
Resources & Recommendations:
- Dr. Joe Dispenza – Meditation and healing research
- Dr. Gabor Maté – The link between emotions and disease
- Jack Kornfield’s After the Ecstasy, the Laundry – On integrating mindfulness into daily life
- The Fully Mindful’s Guided Meditations – Available Here
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Join the Fully Mindful Community: ✨ Subscribe & Review: If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify—it helps others find the show!
✨ Stay Connected: Follow @the_fully_mindful on Instagram for mindfulness tips, breathwork insights, and more!
✨ Free Breathwork Sessions: Email me at info@thefully.mindful.com to get signed up for your first session for free of my monthly Unwind Your Mind session.
Introduction to Sunflower Medicine
Speaker 1Well, hello everyone. This is Melissa Shero. I'm your host at the Fully Mindful, where we explore what it truly means to live an authentic, mindful and purpose-driven life. Today, I'm very happy to be joined by Sunflower Medicine, a transformative author, coach and teacher who has inspired countless individuals to reconnect with their authentic selves. Her new book, 21 Days of Self-Love and Mindfulness, is a guide to reclaiming self-worth and cultivating a life of purpose through mindfulness, self-reflection and journaling. Now you know why she's on the show. Her journey includes a transformative experience of healing and growth after a cancer diagnosis, which led her to embrace expanded consciousness and integrate mind, body and spirit in her work. Beyond her personal story, she's also a business transformation consultant, a proud mother, grandmother, and she blends wisdom from all aspects of her life. Today, we're going to dive deep into her personal story, I hope, her mission and her practical ways of teaching that can be integrated into anyone's life, whether you're a yogi, a CEO or just looking for a way to reconnect with yourself. So let's dive in Welcome.
Life Before Cancer Diagnosis
Speaker 2I love hearing all of that. I'm so happy with where I am in life.
Speaker 1Thank you, yeah, it's an amazing place to be. One of the things that we talk a lot about on this show and I want to continue to explore is how to integrate all of this. We tend to live in this world where most of us live up in our heads instead of in all of ourselves, and we or we just sever it completely. We don't live an integrated life where I can speak for myself. That certainly was true for me for 40 plus years, and so it's really a beautiful thing to meet and be able to talk with someone who's been able to find a way to integrate all of themselves into all that they do, so it's really a pleasure to have you here to talk about that today.
Speaker 2Thank you, I'm happy to be here. I love that you value it. I'll be honest the universe knew that it was going to take something serious for me to consider. There was more, because my head got me pretty far. You know, living in my head, being logical, being smart and, you know, proactive. Even after I got sick, the first few months of really just trying to figure out what I was going to do, it was hard for me to consider that there was another way to live another way to live.
Speaker 1Yeah, so can you say more about that? I mean, tell us a little bit about what your life was like before a really extreme diagnosis that can really throw someone A cancer diagnosis is nothing to take lightly, and I'm sure you didn't. Yeah, I mean it's something that you want to use your head for right, like you don't want to just ignore it and kind of blindly go through life. So how was it that you were able to? What was your life like before that and then? How did it change you and how were you able to integrate these other modalities?
Speaker 2I love this story and interrupt me anytime because I could talk for an hour just on that question. Okay, I could talk for an hour just on that question. Okay, my life, I've lived a charmed life. I married a lawyer when I was 22, and we raised four kids. We had a good marriage until it wasn't we split amicably. While my kids were in school, I got a business degree and I found what I love to do and so pretty easily I found work that not only I love to do.
Speaker 2But when you find what you love to do, you're good at it you know, so I'm just, and in the work that I do around change management and transformation for businesses, I tell them the hardest people to change are the ones who that are successful. You know, we're absolutely successful in this box. Why would I leave this box? And so that was me. You know, life was good, it's all going just fine, I've got anything I want, anything I need I can make happen. And so, yes, in one year I ended a relationship, I moved from the East Coast back home to Houston, changed jobs and was diagnosed with cancer. So everything it was a very clear, fresh start. I immediately looked for options other than radiation and chemotherapy.
Speaker 2I've always known and believed that I'm not a body with a soul, I'm a soul with a body. And I know that. I've known, and this is something that is in the book. We know things. You know, people teach us stuff and it's like it sounds familiar, it resonates, we know. But then that's the what. And now what? What are you going to do with now that you know that? I know I am a soul in a body.
Seeking Alternative Healing Paths
Speaker 2So I started looking at ways to heal myself and I read a lot of Joe Dispenza, I did a lot of meditation, I did my research. I know how to learn. I know how to get that information and synthesize it. Everything I read and understood and knew there was a block. There was a block from me having I could slow it down, but I couldn't get rid of that tumor. And one doctor one time it's funny I went and worked with a holistic clinic in Florida and the doctor looked at some things. He says, from everything I can see with your liver count and this, and that it indicates that you're holding a lot of anger, I'm like I'm a cheerleader, I don't do anger. And his response was exactly I didn't get it. Then I'm like you're not my doctor. If you think my problem is anger, you don't know me.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2Now, later, after I had my breakthrough, I knew I didn't experience anger, I didn't allow anger, but it was there and my body knew it and my soul knew it, but my mind blocked it Right. And I don't know. If you're familiar I'm sure you are Dr Gabor Amate and his work and he'll say this there's a cancer type. Yes, there's, you know that, that type that just goes on blindly, blinders on the ability to just get anything done, no matter what's happening. I don't feel pain, I don't feel anger. So I was there right right and.
Speaker 2But, like I said, the tumor was shrinking, it wasn't going away and I'm gonna have to try the traditional stuff. So I went to to MD Anderson. I did the good, good care and they said that for this small tumor I had in my throat I was going to need 35 radiation treatments.
Speaker 1I didn't realize that your tumor was in your throat, and I find that fascinating when the problem was expression of anger 100%. Right.
Speaker 2If you would ask me also, I was a cheerleader. I majored in music and singing.
Speaker 2My voice except for where I do, except for expressing something's wrong, expressing that I want something, expressing no right. But I didn't see any of that. So it was in my throat and small tiny tumor and 35 radiation treatments. I'm like, well, how many would it be if it was big? They're like 35. This is the protocol. And so I go and I got to about 10 or 11. And when I would lay down to have the treatment I would start gagging. My body said no, and one of the things I did early on was say I need to start listening to my body. This is a mind-body spirit and I haven't been listening to my body and I'm now going to listen to my body. So here I am on the radiation table. My body is saying no.
Speaker 1The part of your brain that was like but I have to do this right, like I've got to. Was there any part of you that was thinking I have to do this because?
Speaker 2this is all Even my mind knew. First of all, my mind believed that if there was something that the radiation had to do, it did it in about seven treatments.
Speaker 1Okay.
Ayahuasca and Spiritual Awakening
Speaker 2I really felt like it was overkill. My skin was burnt. I hadn't eaten in 14 days, I couldn't swallow and my body was like enough, and it could be that that is what cured it. I don't know, but I said no. And to say no whether it's MD Anderson or anywhere, I'm sure the doctors and the radiology techs and the nurses who called and like we want you to live Ringing the bell is all about getting through your 35 treatments, not about curing cancer. So there's a whole thing that you've got to really be strong and willing to say I know every fiber of my being knows that I've had enough and I'm not going to finish this treatment. So I knew and I left and I didn't tell my family, because they're just going to, they're going to worry that I'm giving up. So I didn't tell my family and I said no, I need to figure out how to cure cancer, how to get past this. I went to Costa Rica A friend of mine had mentioned ayahuasca and I did four different ceremonies and in the third or fourth it was just very clear to me you're healed, this is handled, it's done.
Speaker 2I saw very clearly that up until that point I was very disconnected. My mind, my ego was in the driver's seat and my soul was kind of bound and gagged in the trunk right. I just the number of times that there had been experiences in my life that I was uncomfortable with, that I was fearful or I knew I was just acting out of fear and I told that part of myself sit down, shut up, we're going forward, we're doing this. I just saw all of that in my first experience with ayahuasca and just recognizing that truly it was an experience for me where I for the first time felt whole.
Speaker 1I mean yeah, that's really powerful and you know I'm not necessarily advocating that everyone go out and do ayahuasca. I mean that will be something that is for some people and not for others. Correct. Yeah, we probably all experience, to some degree or another, some of us more than others, particularly women, but also men.
Speaker 1You know this disconnection. We don't listen to ourselves, we don't honor ourselves and we say, well, that's not important, or you know, something else is more important. And I love the metaphor, the analogy you used about putting the rest of yourself in the trunk and just dragging yourself around Like don't listen, compartmentalize, just shut it down, sit down.
Speaker 2Shut up. Yeah, that's actually what I saw in the dream. I saw riding in a car with it, with myself in the. You know my soul, my true self. But I agree with you 100% around the plant medicines there are a bunch of different ones and before I did that I hadn't even smoked pot. You know, it's not a recreational thing for me, but when it's when you're called to it, when there's a resonance, when it's right, do it right. But and getting to that point right now, the paradigm I lived in, just the paths and the truth that I had about the way life was. I just couldn't even see that my ego was in the driver's seat.
Speaker 1Sure, I mean, we only know what we know and what we feel, and that feels right, so we do what we do. That's the reality that we live in.
Speaker 2Until we find something, and whatever that is and it can be meditation, it can be breath work, just so powerful, it can just be being still being quiet, it can be just changing where you are in life, your job and that kind of thing. There are ways to quiet the mind and listen.
Speaker 1I just didn't even know what I needed listen, I just didn't even know what I needed, right, and it was the wake up call of the diagnosis that got you there. And so often it is right, a pain point, whether it's an emotional one or a physical one or something else, right, it's something that rocks our world, that gets us to the point where we have to look and we have to find something else. Right, I guess there there might be some people who don't have to go there. Right, who don't have to?
Speaker 1Yes, there might be some people who don't have to go there right, who don't have to find a point, and it would be great if we could figure out that particular alchemy, but I haven't heard of it yet. I think it's possible, but so far I only know people who get there by some level of pain, and maybe it doesn't have to be deep pain, but there's still a level of pain emotional or physical or both that we have to get to first before we're willing to take a look and peek under the hood and see what we need to look at right.
Clearing the F.O.G. (Fear, Obligation, Guilt)
Speaker 2Yeah, and, like I said, the same is true in business. When I do coaching in business, you know why would I give up being successful until there's a challenge that I can't meet? Going through my current success formula winning, formula, right, I'm not interested, I'm not even curious, I wouldn't look at something different. So for me, my age, my generation, a lot of this comes at midlife, you know, after the kids are grown. Maybe it's just because I'm so focused for the other stuff, but I am seeing so many people younger than me having this valuable conversation in their late 20s and 30s. That gives me hope for the future.
Speaker 1I think that's wonderful bit more for their lives. I do think that is encouraging and does spur a little bit of hope, which is great. Oh yeah, yeah. And so you said something earlier and I think I've heard you say it before where you've always known you're a spirit with a body and not the other way around. When do you remember the first time that was sort of something in your consciousness, do you think?
Speaker 2I grew up in church. First of all, my parents were so strict that I didn't have a social life. I could only get out of the house if I was at church, and so I got to see church from a lot of different views and hear a lot of it. So I developed a relationship with God, a spiritual relationship, fairly young, and so I knew the power of that and experienced that pretty much.
Speaker 2That's just been something I've been mindful of, I've been aware of, you know, and so that later on I, in my late thirties, forties maybe, I hurt my ankle and even then I was saying it's going to heal, I'm going to heal, I'm going to take care of it. So it's something that's just been there for me from a very early age and I think I credit that spiritual relationship early on, really looking at it from different perspectives.
Speaker 1And it sounds like that relationship has evolved over the years. Absolutely, I don't know. Are you still involved with organized religion or has that evolved into something different?
Speaker 2So I'm not as involved as I used to be. I go with my mom basically. So my mom definitely goes, and you know when I go to church I feel the presence of God. I do so I know it's there. There are a lot of political and social things going on with church that I had.
Speaker 2I don't know if the word is outgrown, but I see differently, and so you know it's a church. Any church, even any plant medicine, any spiritual thing that we've got here, run by people, is going to have its weaknesses. So I've definitely evolved to where I'm not someone who shows up and looks for the pastor or the guru or the leader to tell me who God is or to represent my relationship with God. And so because of that, it's really grown, it's expanded and I think each and every one of us has that opportunity to interact with spirit in such a way that our perspective in the world I love that you focus on the word mindfulness so much, because I feel like that is just broadening that mindfulness of what it is to be here and to be human is that expanded spirituality gives us that opportunity.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it sounds like your relationship with God, or you know, whatever that being is, is one that is truly spiritual rather than necessarily aligned with any particular organized religion. In other words, I think what I was keying into there was anything that is run by people is going to have its own struggles, right?
Speaker 1Because we're human right, we have egos we have agendas, we have politics, we have things we want to do. So we're definitely going to have our faults, and so the particular relationship that we have, that is a spiritual one, that is the one to value rather than necessarily it's great to have the community, but not necessarily be so aligned that you follow blindly, like you said, some sort of guruship.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's right, and I love the community aspect. I love that you and I can have this conversation and talk at an expanded level, and so I like having people that can help me think. And again, with the book, it's one of the things the so what? You know, what's what we know, but the so what is like? What does this mean? Like, asking questions, exploring.
Speaker 2So, yes, I know that self-love is important, but now I'm going to ask myself are there people in my life who would get annoyed or upset if I made myself a priority? That's a question that I can when I'm in a community and talking about my life and my challenges and the things that I struggle with and the lessons I'm learning, the questions that come up. So that's a part of the book. After each short lesson, which a lot of it may seem like common sense, let's explore just some questions. You know, and that's what a community allows for, or this sort of a question and answer thing is to really say so what, so what? I know this. What does it mean? How is it going to add value and enrich my life and how is it going to enrich other people's lives?
Speaker 1So that's the so-so. Yeah, I mean you talk a lot about how people like yourself, when you were originally maybe not prioritizing at least some of your own needs, right, putting yourself in the trunk of your own car so to speak, how does, or self-care and some of the things that you advocate for, help us overcome this guilt about placing ourselves first, about actually having some sort of sense of self-worth and reclaiming that for ourselves.
Speaker 2Part of it, I think, starts with the paradigm we live in, because, again, the people I talked to when I was looking at healing myself from cancer, I really thought I had it figured out. It was not clear to me that my life was devoted to controlling everyone and everything around me and that a lot of the people that I helped didn't feel that help, they felt controlled. I never saw that, and so expanding the mindfulness, stepping out and looking from a different perspective, it allows you to see oh, there's more to life, right? So that's the first part, is the paradigm we find ourselves in. And then we start to say, well, what would it even look like to love myself? Because I thought I was doing that.
Speaker 2You know one of four kids. My mom had four kids under five when she was 21 or 22, right? So we didn't want things. It was scary. When we needed things, I felt like a burden when I needed something, and so to find myself in my 30s, 40s, 50s and asking myself what I want, this is a new conversation. What does self-love look like? I'm just supposed to not be a burden, right? So let's explore that and, again, that's one of the things we do in this book. What would it look like to take care of yourself, what would it look like to have someone else take care of you? And just getting being able to start to look at it from that perspective is such a joy. It's revolutionary. Like, really, I didn't know that this level of life was available, right, this heaven on earth that I'm experiencing. So it sounds so simple and it sounds so common sense Love yourself. But when you remember, love is an action verb. What does that mean?
Speaker 1Yeah, and, like you said, what does it even look like? And then when you begin to explore that, you kind of get to what might be undercutting that, right? Because you go, oh well, that could look like, oh, I could go for a walk. And then maybe something comes up, right, you think, yes, I couldn't do that, I couldn't go for a walk because I need to do A, b and C first for my daughter, my husband, my dog, my work, my, whatever it is. And then you think, oh, I am prioritizing all of that ahead of just, yes, going on for a 15-minute walk or a walk.
Speaker 2Well, here's so and this is a whole section in the book this is called clearing the fog. If there's something you want if it's I want to sing on stage, or I want to go to Hawaii, or I want to sleep in on Sunday If there's something you want and you can't have it, I would suggest, just consider that it's the fog. It's one of three things Fear the F is for fear. What are you afraid of? If I do this, the world's going to fall apart. You know, like I said, I grew up with a single mom and we had these kids and when she got nervous and upset and we all got nervous and upset, so there's a part of me that cannot tolerate or could not tolerate emotions.
Speaker 2If somebody is crying, that's a problem. We have to fix it. We can't let someone cry, we can't let someone feel a lot of an emotion. So identifying what you're afraid of is extremely valuable. The second one is, oh, obligation and I don't think it's just women, I think men feel the same thing at work. And I can't. I have to Everything that you say and I can't. I have to Everything that you say. I have to For us to remember that it's all negotiable, it's all a choice, it's all a choice. And is it an unspoken agreement? And, by the way, do those people who you say that you have to do this for, do they know that you're giving this up? Do they, you know? Do they want to be responsible for that You're giving this up? Do they, you know? Do, do they want to be responsible for them? You know I want.
Speaker 2When my kids were like oh, maybe four and six, I had an opportunity to go to Nashville and sing and I recorded country music. I loved it, it was great, and there was a part of it I didn't enjoy, and that was them telling me here's the identity we're going to put a. Here's who you're going to be, here's how we're going to market it. And a part of it I didn't enjoy. And that was them telling me here's the identity we're going to put on, here's who you're going to be, here's how we're going to market it. And a part of me just said no, I want to go be with my kids. Now, that's an obligation, but the truth is my kids would never want to be the reason I'm not pursuing my dreams. You know, go check on it If you feel like you're obligated to sacrifice your true desires, check in, go, ask them or renegotiate.
Speaker 2You can do both Right. There's this whole thing around the obligation. There's fear, there's obligation. And the third one is G and that's guilt. And at the heart of guilt is your inability to forgive yourself for something Right, either for failing or for not being good enough, for not being worthy. And if you want it, those are things to explore Anytime you're stuck with giving yourself that prioritize. Look at fear, obligation. Clear the fog, fear, obligation. Clear the fog. Fear, obligation and guilt. Those three things are going to give you a lot of insight.
Speaker 1I love that and you can use that really practically, even for something as simple as the example that I gave, going for a simple walk, you know. I know, I felt that today, oh, I can't go for a simple walk, I couldn't possibly. You know, I have all these things I have to do, Right. So the big thing for me was the right, the obligation.
Speaker 2Yes, I had obligation all over the place, but the truth of the matter is, you can go on a 15 minute walk and be so much more productive when you get back.
Speaker 1A hundred percent, in fact. Yesterday I also had obligation all over the place and I chose to go on the 15 minute walk and it was delightful and I ended up being a lot more productive and a lot happier about it, and so it really can be that simple and it's really easy to you don't have to spend 30 minutes journaling over it. You can really just kind of check off the box in about 30 seconds, your little fog list. I love it. It's very practical.
Integrating Self-Love in Daily Life
Speaker 2Thank you, and that, to me, is being mindful. It is Hearing what you say to yourself, hearing when you say I can't and questioning it.
Speaker 1Yeah, I like it and I think that is you know why I think fog when you get to all the reasons underneath. That is why people struggle to prioritize their own needs, right? I mean they're afraid of something or they feel like they have this obligation and they have guilt or whatever else is going on for them. That's why they're not prioritizing their own needs and a lot of times people all run into people who will say they are really watching out for other people. They'll make themselves a bit of a martyr, in fact, right.
Speaker 2Yes, and that's part of the cancer type. Yes, but there is an identity and as a mom, nobody else put this on me, but as a mom, I take so much pride in the care that I took care of my family, you know, and how well I raised my kids. I also took pride in the soccer team that I coached. They're all choices. Nobody said you have to be perfect, you have to take care of these. People said you have to be perfect, you have to take care of these people. And honestly, at some point I realized that it wasn't as generous of me to think I had to take care of some people. There were people in my life I'd be like, oh, I've just got to do this because they're going to do it wrong, and that wasn't generous.
Speaker 1You're taking away their opportunity for growth for growth, for growth and for expression.
Speaker 2I have a great story with when my kids were like maybe 9 and 11, I started my MBA program and my husband I think I mentioned was a lawyer. He was a managing partner at a law firm Workaholic, yes, check. He worked all the time. And so I did a program. That was Friday, saturday, sundays and we had to talk and he was like go do this, you can do it, I can help with the kids, I can and I will. And I'm like all right.
Speaker 2So like the first Friday night I go to class. It's kind of in the fall. He takes the kids to their fall carnival or whatever. I get home about the same time as him and he comes in and the kids aren't with him, the girls aren't with him. I'm like where are the girls? And he says they're spending the night with friends and I'm like well, that's awesome, who do they spend the night with? And he's like you know the tall guy, you know he, he doesn't know their names and he can't tell me who our kids are spending the night with. And I'm like unacceptable, this is how you do it. This is not the right way. So I gave them the hardest time. Kids got home the next day, but a few weeks later than that our youngest had fallen off, a horse, had hit her head. She had a hematoma. She needed emergency brain surgery.
Speaker 1Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2He dealt with the pediatrician, he got her to the hospital. He saved her life Like while I was at school Fully capable. He doesn't do it like I would, but he does it. It was fine, and that's just such a lesson for me. I still do that when I work with people and I'm like they're not doing it like I would do it.
Speaker 1You got to let go and let people do the way that they would do, it right. They're always going to do things a little bit differently.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's their expression.
Speaker 1It's their expression.
Speaker 2You were obviously you know very busy and you're busy now, and so how do people like us integrate self-love, mindfulness practices in real ways on a daily basis? And it's funny because a lot of the plant medicine that I go to, a lot of the people that I talk to who do ceremonies, who do meditation, they're two different people, Like they'll go do the weekend, they'll do the retreat, but then they go right back in it and it's like it's hard to cleanse the toxicity right and the only way to integrate is to integrate is to make it a commitment, to call it out, to be mindful of how you're spending your time. I believe and I write about this that energy is currency and our energy and how much we have, how much we spend, to be as mindful of that, as you are about the money that you, as you are about money, you know I know how much money is in my bank account, I know where my energy level is, but that's a part of it. Recognize that your biggest, most valuable currency is your energy and it is maintained, it is managed through these mindful, integrative practices.
Speaker 2And the second part and this is another story from a shaman, and again around the kids. I learned so much by being a mom. So one of the shamans. I asked her how can a mom be happy when her kids aren't? I was going through a thing, and this was my codependent. Like I can't be happy, I have to help my daughter. She needs this, she needs this, and I know that it's not healthy for us to do this thing, but she needs it, you know.
Speaker 2So I'm going through this and I'm in the ceremony and I can tell there's something I'm not letting go of. And that's what came to me. I'm like how can I be happy if she's not? And what the shaman told me was you can't make your daughter happy and you can't make her make healthy choices. All you can do is show her what healthy looks like, what happy looks like, and I started doing that with my daughter. It's been wonderful. But let me tell you I take that everywhere. I can't make people integrate self-love and mindfulness, but I can show them what it looks like.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2Right, and I'm not as much as I want to impact people and tell them what I'm learning about my journey. It's just not as valuable as showing them. So if you, yes, for yourself, manage your energy, but if you want to impact other people, just show them what it looks like you doing that is going to impact other people doing it, I think 100%.
Speaker 1And you know, I forget Jack Corfield had the title of his book and I forget. I think it's called After the Ecstasy, the Laundry and I think, like that's perfect right, like it's like you know, you have to be a householder, I mean you don't have to be, but that's how we do it, right, we don't go off and do a retreat and then come back and then we're an asshole, right, like you have to integrate it, right, and you don't go. And I honestly I mean I really honestly thought I mean I'm a lawyer, I practice law and I also do this, and for the longest time I thought the two had to be totally different. I really did, and I would practice mindfulness and I would practice law, and never the two would meet. I'm not saying I was an asshole lawyer, although maybe some people would have thought so, but like I didn't know how to integrate the two and I just didn't think that they mixed.
Speaker 1And then I had this epiphany. I don't know if it all came in one day, but I came over time where it was like no, this has to be together, right, like they can't be separate. I'm not two different people living two different lives in two different bodies Like these. Things have to be together and I don't want to practice a business or a life that is separate from mindfulness or compassion or any of these self-care practices Like I want to be. Like you said an example of that and it doesn't make me a weaker or a lesser lawyer or for other people who have other practices. You know, business person or doctor or whatever you might be, it actually makes you better. 10%. Yeah, because you're more aware of yourself, your own emotions, your own thoughts and how that might impact another person, how their thoughts, their emotions, their behavior might impact you. You know, it's just, it's so much more of a beautiful way to live and work to integrate that.
Speaker 2I have a management, so I do management integrate that. I have a management, so I do management consulting. And I have a client that I work with and they had their Monday meeting and it just didn't go well and I was out of town or something. I wasn't there and they're like Paula, when you're there, there's a different energy in the room and just to hear that just to hear that just to hear that.
Setting Boundaries and Living Truth
Speaker 2Have them say it and recognize it as like, oh yeah, like all of me is showing up Right, the whole of you. That's right. So, and when it's all ego and mind, there's something that the true self could contribute, right. There's something that the emotional body could contribute, and so allowing that and integrating it, I think it makes me a better person, it makes me better at everything I do, it makes me a better consultant. All of those things.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah. And it gives other people permission, whether they're conscious of it or not, right to be their more whole selves whether they're conscious of it or not, right to be their more whole selves.
Speaker 2Yes, to speak to their experience. I can't make them have difficult conversations, but I can show them what it looks like I can't make them show up and be true to their gut, but I can show them what it looks like.
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean it's fascinating. I don't know if you're aware of that show that's on Apple TV called Shrinking. It's with Harrison Ford. Oh my gosh, I can't remember the.
Speaker 2Jason Segel.
Speaker 1Yes, thank you, and it's such a beautiful show Right, because it's funny also, but also they have really difficult conversations and I think they demonstrate how to do that Right Sometimes gracefully, not sometimes gracefully right, whether it's a television show or a movie or actual people having actual conversations that are difficult, and we go, oh my gosh, like I want to be able to do that, like that's really amazing that these people can have that. And then we witness intimacy, like real intimacy, when we see people have difficult conversations and actually connect on that deeper level, and that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2And we experience resonance. No, you watch it and there's something that clicks in you, or you know, when you're watching it, I get excited. Yeah, it's truth, it's the recognition of truth, and so when you recognize that, it calls you to aspire to that.
Speaker 1Yeah, it makes you want to be a better person, right? Yes, true. So, with that in mind, how does prioritizing you know, that sort of interaction, or prioritizing self-love, compassion, how does this transform an individual but also strengthen relationships, but also the greater community, do you think? Yeah?
Speaker 2Again, it's inspiring, right. So I can't make myself resonate with you or anyone else, but I can honor what resonates, you know, and just trust it. And there are people that I don't resonate with. I'm okay with that, yeah, and I don't know that I would have been okay with that 15 years ago. But so I would say, trusting that resonance, am I aligned? Am my mind, body and spirit all playing a part here? Hey, doing it for yourself is the first step. To try and do it for them.
Speaker 2Without handling this and integrating it in your life, you're going to get stuck and the ego is going to probably take over in my experience. So that's my recommendation. The first and most critical part is to bring mindfulness to yourself and show what that can do. As you do that and you bring it to your kids and your grandkids, my daughters at first did not. They didn't even know what to say about my journey. Like, who are you? What's going on? There wasn't that big a change, but it was weird talking to their mom about plant medicines, right, and so we don't talk about that a lot, but we're to a point now we can talk about a lot more emotional maturity, we can talk about spiritual fulfillment, and so just living it is the most important part of building the community around you and letting people know what to expect from you.
Speaker 2There's another thing that has been a lesson for me and I'm still on it, but it's setting boundaries.
Speaker 2When I know and recognize that this doesn't fit, it doesn't resonate, it doesn't feel right, being able to say no. Sometimes it's with work. You know there are clients that I've worked for that I know that the work I'm doing isn't what I want to do and sometimes I'm like this is what we got to do because mama needs shoes, right. But the other side is I know there's something else I'm supposed to be doing. I've received the message, this is right and I'm going to set boundaries. Or, you know, maybe I just go to them and say I'm only going to work this many hours, but being able to say this is what is true for me allows me to live a life that then sets the example for the thing around observing and honoring truth. That then creates a resonance, that attracts truth and builds upon truth, and you start to really create an environment that you live in, a community, and that for the people around you. I just feel like that's the way to do it.
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean, you're living your own integrity, and then I think that inspires others to live in theirs, and then it ripples out.
Speaker 2And there may be people who aren't. You know, I had a friend who actually lived with me and we were having some friction. It wasn't going well, and we had a conversation with like this isn't working, and she got offended, she had her feelings hurt and she left and she stopped speaking to me and that's okay.
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean that can be sometimes that is the result, right, but you still lived in your integrity and she's living in hers and I'm not going to judge that, and this is where it is, yeah. Yeah, so it doesn't mean that it's all unicorns and rainbows for everybody, necessarily, but you know it is living in truth.
Speaker 2Yeah, and growth requires learning and lessons. So it's not going to be rainbows and unicorns. They're going to be things that, just you know, trigger you. You'll be like meditated, not mindful. It's still getting triggered, you know, because you still got things to learn. Yeah, and that's what we're here to do. We're here to learn.
Speaker 1Yeah Well, you still need stormy days and rain to get grass and for things to grow, that's right. So that's how we grow. So what are you hoping that listeners take away from your story and your book? What are you hoping that listeners take away from your story, your book and you know, from this message of self-love and compassion and self-worth and mindfulness?
Favorite Mindfulness Practices & Closing
Speaker 2I'm just hoping that the people that are listening, the people that I touch, people that I impact, get to experience and know joy and the full experience of being human Right. There's no competition, there's nowhere to get, there's nothing to win. That there is right here, right now. It's beautiful and it's powerful and you have everything you need to do that. There's the what, the so what and the now what, right. So, exploring all of this, getting inspired, feeling resonance and getting to just take on life and getting to that point where you can say, oh, I want something, I want something and then go for it. You know, I'm going to want more, I'm going to want more in life and I'm going to go for it. So at the end of the day, bottom line, that's what I would hope for. People want and go get more.
Speaker 1Well, speaking of which maybe you could leave us with maybe one of your favorite ways to practice mindfulness in your everyday life one of your favorite ways to practice mindfulness in your everyday life.
Speaker 2Well, I love a breath work. Breath work is one of my favorite things, and I've found a few different YouTube. You know things I can listen to at night, but my preference is to find a way to do it in person. And as far as my favorite practices, breath work is up there top three. My favorite practices breath work is up there top three. Yoga is top three Because now I'm telling you, 15 years ago, yoga was an athletic exercise.
Speaker 2I did not feel energy in my body and I'm to a point now where it is truly a spiritual experience and I love it. And the third one is journaling. We already mentioned that, but that's the now what. When you get the what and the so what, and you get to explore and get these fun things that are fun to talk about. What are we going to do now? What am I going to do different? How am I, how is this going to like, move me forward? What am I going to do? So, yeah, I like journaling and writing down what I think, what I feel, what I want, what I'm going to do next.
Speaker 1I love it. So tell us where people can find your book, where they can find you, and then maybe, if you have anything that's kind of up your sleeve and coming down the pike, tell us about that.
Speaker 2So my website is sunflower-medicinecom. So my website is sunflower-medicinecom. Go there. You can find all about the book 21 Days Self-Love and Mindfulness. You can go to Amazon and buy it as well, and it tells you about my new book that I just released in November. That's called Midlife Medicine, and I've mentioned that I've had a journey with the plant medicines. I've explored several different types. And just for people who are curious, like, what's the difference between an ayahuasca ceremony and mushrooms? So it talks about what a ceremony is, what the background is, how important it is to look for the right people and how to find a safe environment to do it. So all of those things are on my website. That's what I'm talking to people about, and I'm just so thrilled to get to expand my community and talk to people who speak my language.
Speaker 1Love it. Well, I'm so glad to have had you on and hope to have you on again and we can talk a little bit more about your other adventures and other modalities that you've explored. It would be great to have you back.
Speaker 2I hope we get to talk again soon.
Speaker 1Yeah, to you too.
Speaker 2Thank you.