The Fully Mindful with Melissa Chureau
The Fully Mindful podcast explores what it is to be fully mindful and present in our everyday lives, uncover our worth and discover our purposes. Host of TFM, Melissa Chureau is a neurodivergent lawyer, mindfulness teacher, and embodiment and breathwork coach. On TFM, Melissa interviews inspiring creatives, wellness leaders, and social disruptors about how they have discovered their purpose(s), authentic wellness, and the value of their work on the world at large.
Support this podcast: https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=EAKLA3JNCEAV8
The Fully Mindful with Melissa Chureau
Seen and Supported: A Teacher’s Journey Through Dyslexia, Advocacy, and Authentic Belonging
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
What happens when a student with undiagnosed dyslexia and deafness grows up to become the kind of teacher who makes every child feel seen, supported, and celebrated?
In this heartfelt and eye-opening episode of The Fully Mindful, host Melissa Chureau sits down with second-grade teacher and literacy advocate Jill Rebholz to talk about what it means to truly support kids with learning differences—not just on paper, but in real life.
Jill shares her personal story of navigating school in the 1970s without a diagnosis, the powerful role of mentors and family in shaping her path, and how her own neurodivergence informs the way she shows up for students today. With honesty, humor, and deep wisdom, she talks about:
- Living with dyslexia and unilateral deafness in a world that didn’t yet have the language for either
- The impact of early advocacy—and missed diagnoses
- How she brings compassion, humor, and honesty into the classroom
- Creating safe, empowering spaces like her “Lunch Bunch” for dyslexic students
- Why labels can be both limiting and liberating
- How to advocate for your child with learning differences
- What she hopes to see shift in education—and what’s already giving her hope
Whether you’re a parent, educator, or someone who's ever felt like you learn differently, this episode offers validation, insight, and a deep reminder that intelligence and worth aren’t measured by grades or test scores.
Because when kids are believed in, everything changes.
Join the Fully Mindful Community: ✨ Subscribe & Review: If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify—it helps others find the show!
✨ Stay Connected: Follow @the_fully_mindful on Instagram for mindfulness tips, breathwork insights, and more!
✨ Free Breathwork Sessions: Email me at info@thefully.mindful.com to get signed up for your first session for free of my monthly Unwind Your Mind session.
Introduction to Fully Mindful Podcast
Speaker 1Welcome to the Fully Mindful Podcast . I'm your host , melissa . I designed this podcast for you . I'm so happy you're here . We are talking about what it means to live with more intention , creativity and authenticity so we can make aligned connections . I'm a neurodivergent lawyer turned coach who found the healing power of breathwork and the powerful impact of mindfulness as we navigate this wild and beautiful ride of life . Here at the Fully Mindful , we dive deep with inspiring guests , share solo mini-sodes that are packed with tools you can apply immediately , and I mix it up a bit with tangents and sidebars where my friend and host of the New World Normal podcast , debbie Harrell , joins us for some down to earth , sometimes random but always meaningful conversations . If you're ready to breathe , reflect and grow , you're in the right place . Let's get fully mindful , all right .
Speaker 2Well , hello everybody , I'm . Melissa , thank you for joining me on the fully mindful podcast . If you got value from this episode , I'd love for you to subscribe , leave a review or share this episode with someone who loves this content too . Remember , small moments of mindfulness can lead to big changes in your day-to-day life . Until next time , take a deep breath , stay present and constant self-doubt
Jill's Early Struggles in School
Speaker 2.
Speaker 1Yet , with the support of a few incredible mentors , her own grit and a determined family , she not only carved a path forward for herself , but she has spent over 25 years making sure that students she teaches know their worth , and that it goes far beyond test scores or labels . Her story is one of resilience , advocacy and ongoing work , of finding a belonging for herself , for her students and her own family . I can't wait for you to hear this honest and inspiring conversation . So welcome , jill . Hello , so good to have you here and , just for the listeners , I've got to say this is really exciting because Jill and I have actually known one another for quite some time and , jill , you were my daughter's second grade teacher .
Speaker 2Yes , you guys are one of my favorite families .
Speaker 1Oh , I love hearing that . So I told our daughter , amelie , that I was interviewing you and she , of course she's a teenager and she's like oh , cool , cool . She's very different than she was as a second grader , but has the same heart and same soul that she did then .
Speaker 2Great soul and she was such a strong , independent person . I loved that about her .
Speaker 1Yes . So here we are , many years later , and if you could tell us what your early school experiences were and when you first started to realize , maybe learning looked a little different . For you .
Speaker 2Yeah , second grade was my pivoting year when things really got hard , when I really noticed things weren't the same for me as they were for the other kids in my class . I went to a small Catholic elementary school . There were only other kids in my class . I went to a small Catholic elementary school . There were only 16 kids in my class .
Speaker 2In second grade I had a really bad head cold and my ears started bleeding and when I recovered I told my parents I couldn't hear out of that ear anymore . And when we went to the doctor he tested the wrong ear and told my parents that my hearing was fine . I just didn't understand the vocabulary they were using . So my parents reported that back to school and said , oh , we just need to use more understandable vocabulary . So people talked to me really slowly and enunciated and used simple words and it felt awful .
Speaker 2And at the same time my teacher was trying to inspire the five of us struggling learners in the group to do better and her thought was we weren't trying hard enough , so to try harder . She named our reading groups and our math groups . Our reading groups were the blue J's for the kids who were succeeding and the worms for those of us that were struggling , and our math groups were the rainbows for those achieving and the rocks for those of us who are struggling . So when you're told you're a rock and a worm at age seven , it's pretty hard and you really notice huh , five of us are rocks and worms and everybody else are rainbows and blue jays .
Speaker 2I'm saying I can't hear and my doctor's saying I can . So it really put in self-doubt to like gosh , I don't know what's happening here . It started an early chapter of trying to advocate for myself and really , though , my parents supported me as best they could those early times before we found out what was going on . They were doing the best they could with what professionals were telling them , but the professionals weren't telling them what was actually happening . So they spoke to me , dumbed down , they tried to talk into the one ear I said I couldn't hear out . They tried to just keep reading more , because if you're struggling with reading back in the 70s , you must need to just read more .
Speaker 1Right .
Speaker 2And we know that reading more doesn't help when you're dyslexic .
Speaker 1Right , and I mean I can so relate . You know my own story . I grew up in the 70 seventies too and having what is now diagnosed as ADHD , but then they called minimal brain dysfunction
Advocating Through Childhood Challenges
Speaker 1which is just a horrible name Worms and rocks , minimal brain dysfunction . I'm glad I didn't know those words back then , but it was the same thing . It was like we're going to put you in this . They wanted to put me in a special classroom for kids that had all sorts of different abilities , that were very different from one another and didn't make a whole lot of sense , and I was fortunate that my mother advocated for me and I stayed in the same classroom . But I experienced exactly what you felt like Like I'm different , I don't know exactly why and I don't know exactly what to do about it , but it doesn't feel right . And then you know I don't know about you , but like , what did you do about those feelings ? How did you advocate for yourself ?
Speaker 2Oh , I pretended to be sick a lot Like avoidance . I as a as a dyslexic typically we are very right-brained , so art was my strong point , creative thinking . It was kind of a double-edged sword , because I had beautiful penmanship but I couldn't spell to save my life . So it was like this I would take pride in the way my work looked , but nobody could read my work because I am . When I was finally identified as dyslexic , I was in fifth grade and functioning at a first grade academic level . So I tried to compensate , tried to cover , tried to avoid .
Speaker 2I'm the youngest in my family by a significant amount . I have three older sisters and I always felt my job was the cute little one to come in and like make everything better and like when there's a problem I come in and be the distraction . So it really felt like I was letting everyone down . In first grade my mom had breast cancer and had a double mastectomy , so she was coming off of that while I was struggling in school and starting the struggle , which I'm sure my parents at the time questioned oh , is this part of the ripple effect of that ? We know that those types of traumas do impact kids and there's multi layers and we know that kids with differences or humans with differences there's so many different layers and so many different ways things present that I tried as a seven-year-old to figure out what was going on and continued and it wasn't until fifth grade when I had this amazing teacher , ellie Durr the most amazing human on the planet , and I still say .
Speaker 2I send her messages constantly saying you changed my life and we often don't think about people who work with little humans having lifelong impacts . But she was the first one who said actually , I think you're really smart . I was like what ? Because the teacher the previous year told me that I needed to learn to ask do you want fries with that ? And I came home and I'm like mom , what does that mean ? Do you want fries with that ? Now , as an adult , I understand she was saying I would never amount to anything . The best I could achieve would be customer service at a fast food restaurant . But I didn't understand that and my mom simply said that means she wants to talk with me .
Speaker 2And my mom went in and
Turning Point: Fifth Grade and Diagnosis
Speaker 2let her know that that is not the way anyone would speak to my mother's daughter . So coming off that fourth grade year , my low I thought school got out at 3.30 every day . Even though it got out at 3 o'clock , I never left the building before 3.30 because I always had to stay after to finish my work . The teachers wouldn't let me go home . They never modified anything , you just stayed after school until you finished . And in fifth grade my teacher was like no , and Mr was like we're not doing more of the same . This clearly isn't working and opened the world . That's also when they found out I was deaf through that assessing .
Speaker 1Finally got an actual assessment from a doctor who didn't test the wrong ear .
Speaker 2Yes , and my parents felt so guilty . I got a puppy that summer .
Speaker 1So that's the upshot you did get a puppy .
Speaker 2Out of the deal and my you know , my parents followed the lead of the professionals that they had accessed and that's you know . Now , on the other side of that story and that narrative , as I talk with parents , it's hard conversations to have when I see a kiddo struggling with something or working too hard for their outcome . I have conversations about things like eye teaming or self-esteem , or bilateral development or social emotional development or dyslexia , dysgraph development , or social-emotional development or dyslexia , dysgraphia , dyscalculia these things that I can't diagnose , I can't identify , but I can see that they're working too hard . And now I have those conversations with parents and enter very gingerly because parents perceive or receive that information , some as an attack , some see it as the teachers making an excuse why their child's not learning partially how they enter those conversations and the stigmas they have about them , and as an educator who is trying to navigate that .
Speaker 1Back to it , back to yeah . So now you were saying that navigating those conversations with parents can be challenging because of the different biases or stigmas that they come in with , and so , yeah , that's got to be a challenge .
Speaker 2I think for parents it's really important to have and like we say it for kids a trusted adult . And so I think it's really important for parents to try and make a positive relationship with their students classroom teacher , because then those hard conversations are easier . You've got a relationship built , you're understanding that teacher's not trying to pigeonhole your kiddo and I've been on the other end of it too . My youngest son is dyslexic , but it was kind of the opposite . The school was like no , no , he's fine , he's just the late bloomer . And I'm like nope , nope , I'm dyslexic . I see it in him .
Speaker 2My dad was likely dyslexic . He just always said he was a bad speller . My sister was likely dyslexic , but they didn't have identification back then . We know one in five humans , no matter what language you speak , are dyslexic , because dyslexia isn't language-based , it's the way your brain takes in that information , so it doesn't matter what language you speak . So having to advocate for my little guy has been , was tricky and still is . You know he's in middle school now and still navigating that and supporting and that balance of push and pull is tricky from a parent's side . And then adding the layer of teacher on , I get his teachers who are like , well , you know , as a teacher , blah , blah , blah , blah blah . I'm like , yes , but if I weren't a teacher , how would you support me ? Because even though I'm a teacher , my kid doesn't want to listen to me , just like nobody
Parental Support and Compassionate Guidance
Speaker 2else's kid wants to listen to them . 100% , and all those moments are wonderful .
Speaker 1They're precious . They really are . Well , you've spoken really beautifully about your own parents supporting you and advocating for you . I love that story about your mother going into the fourth grade teacher and like that's not going to happen . And you know they were also limited by what was available to them at the time , but they did all the things that they could . How do you think those models of strength combined with compassion helped you through the challenges you faced as you continued your learning trajectory and now as a teacher ?
Speaker 2My parents were the best people ever and being a woman growing up under a strong woman was such a blessing . My mom was mighty and tiny . She was 5'1 when she stood up , really tall , but she could clear a room and she was just powerful and passionate and I would say stubborn , she would say permanently determined . But seeing her grit and determination , she was left-handed when she was born in 1930 . Back then they would make you write with your right hand and your inkwell was on the opposite side of the desk . She was so determined to stay left-handed that she ended up doing calligraphy and having beautiful penmanship , even though the odds were against her . And so , seeing that my whole life , her grit and determination and fierceness kind of allowed me to push . Whereas I think other kids in my generation parents were a little more compliant , I saw this push from my mom and my dad was more of the silly , nurturing , snuggly one . So seeing their roles and how . My dad was a college professor . He would bring home college kids all the time who were homesick or just wanted to hang out with the family or needed a board game . Having that kind of yin and yang of parents was really great . Also , my parents . I was born when my parents were 42 and 50 . By the time I came around , nothing fazed them anymore . My three teenage sisters had done it all . I didn't have pressure . So as I was navigating these things where I didn't feel I didn't fit in , I didn't feel things were right . But I never had that pressure from home which I see now as I work with kids .
Speaker 2Parents come in in a bit of a tizzy that their kid's struggling , what do we need to do and who do we ? What counseling , counseling , what program and what should we get them on ? And their anxiety trickles down to their kiddos , whereas my parents were like , okay , this isn't working , we're gonna do the best we can . And my parents were very deeply religious and they're like . They firmly believed that God had a plan and we would all work through this . With that and their ability to not get in a tizzy , I think really was amazingly beneficial to me growing up and now trying to remind myself . Though I have my own anxiety issues , I do try and remember the simple things that I had growing up with my parents , the simple way that they would have honest conversations about my differences , about my struggles , while still holding high expectations . I think is the piece that I try and take on and move forward with my kids , both my kids in my home and my kids in my work .
Speaker 1Yeah , I mean that makes sense .
Speaker 1I love that honest conversation with high expectations and I mean I think that makes a lot of sense . And I've seen fellow parents , like you said , come in with a tizzy and it's always from the right place , right Like they want to do the best for their kids and they're so worried we live in a culture that's so competitive , or seemingly competitive , and they're worried their kid's going to get left behind or their kid's not going to succeed . But , like you said , the anxiety trickles down and the kids feel it and they feel the pressure and then they may inadvertently mask or engage in other behavior to try to make up for it , whatever that means . And you know it's just counter healing for the kiddo and the parents don't even know it and so it is not . It's easier said than done trying to walk that line of being a parent who
Teaching with Authenticity and Vulnerability
Speaker 1loves your child and wants to do the best for them but doesn't want to burden them . They , you know whether it's out what he's told has good grades but has good grades because he works really hard at it .
Speaker 2I have a middle student or middle grader , middle born son , who is very bright and super quick-witted and academics are a breeze for him . He's skipping stuff all the time because it's so easy . As the kid who struggled , I look at him with envy constantly . Yeah , then my younger kiddo , equally brilliant , struggles with reading and writing , struggles with um executive function , and so when we , when we get report cards , we have real conversations at our house about I'm expecting you to do your best and if you're working your butt off , you're studying , you're trying and you do your test and you get a C on it and you gave it your all kudos , that's what I want . I would rather have a hard earned C than an easy A any day of the week . And when you're coming home and you have nothing to do and you're cakewalking through A's , it's just going to set you up to struggle later . I would rather have you struggle when the stakes are lower . But we have those conversations constantly about but what is right for you and what do you need ? And you know they each see the other sibling , see their strengths , but those invisible challenges even they don't see .
Speaker 2My middle sees that my oldest is so athletic . My oldest sees that my middle is so academic . My little sees that the other two are both so good with those things . My middle has super anxiety and really struggles with social interactions to the point of was not speaking at school for a couple of years . And he looks at my little guy who struggles academically . But my little guy can walk into a room and within five minutes know everybody's name , have a connection with them and have something set up to do the next day together . He has a gift of making personal connections but he can't see that within himself because he sees what his brothers do that he can't .
Speaker 2That's something I think in my classroom and constantly , we're always talking about , instead of what makes us different , we talk about what makes us unique , and sometimes those things that make us unique are challenges and sometimes those things that make us unique are strengths . And you know that bittersweet , that we don't appreciate the good things if we don't work through the hard things . And I'm hoping that society is moving towards the direction of embracing our challenges and our successes and seeing that that's what makes us unique and special . It's not . It's not , I think , different just has this negative connotation . Different's wonderful , it's boring when everything's the same .
Speaker 1Right .
Speaker 1But , again , easier said than done , easier said than done and I also hope that our culture or society is moving in that direction , though I think parts of it are very off course and not moving toward that direction at all . So it's great that there are people like you working day after day in the classroom , talking about what makes kids unique , you know , and that it's both their strengths and their challenges , and so I'm wondering what else you might do in your classroom that might be different or that is helpful in encouraging kids to see their uniqueness .
Speaker 2I make mistakes all the time , constantly . I make spelling errors Part of my dyslexia . Rapid naming recall is really hard for me , so I often say the wrong word or I'll say a word similar . I won't be able to remember a word . I fumble when I read aloud . I fumble when I read aloud , though I love reading aloud and I name it in front of my kids . Constantly . We talk about the power of . Yet I have a giant
The Dyslexia Lunch Bunch Initiative
Speaker 2poster in my room that just says yet that I may not be able to do this yet , but I'm working towards it . And our kiddos in my room I may not be able to do double digit addition smoothly yet , but I'll get there , I'm going to and it's going to be hard work .
Speaker 2But I think they see me make mistakes constantly . I apologize often , which I don't remember as a kid my teachers ever making mistakes or ever apologizing when they did something or said something . I'm quick to answer something . I don't really listen to a situation because I've got to finish duty or get whatever and I'm like okay , we got to go , we're done . I make a point of circling back to them and saying I'm really sorry that I couldn't hear your whole story . Can you share it with me now , I think , as parents , that opens that doorway for conversation , that kids are seeing you make mistakes .
Speaker 2They're seeing you're not perfect and you're okay with that , which gives them permission to make mistakes . In my classroom I talk so much about my dyslexia and my being hearing impaired at the start of the year , particularly just to remind them that if you come on this side and you talk at me , I don't know you're there and I always tell them . Every year someone goes home and tells their mom I ignored them and they're crying and their mom calls and says you're so mean , you ignored my baby , and I'm like , oops , they're on the wrong side . So remember you got to come on this side , you got to tap me , and so , constantly talking about how I have a challenge that needs us to work together , that my challenge is part of our community way of learning , I think that helps .
Speaker 1I don't think our daughter ever talked about a teacher more than you . She would come home and tell me what Ms Revolts said and the stories that you told and the things that you did , all very much in a positive light , and I think that makes a difference , right , like you were , at least for her and I'm sure for all the other kids that are there too . Past and present made a community , and it wasn't just I'm going here to learn , I'm part of this community that we call you know , room 10 . Yeah , so I think , just from our own experience , just to give you that feedback like literally , she would talk come home . I mean down , to give you that feedback , like literally she would talk come home . I mean down to the way that you eat your yogurt . She had it all nailed down . More importantly , the story .
Speaker 1They watch everything but the stories that you told and that you shared about your own life , I think you know , and your kids and your experiences and your dyslexia and the way that you learn and the way that other kids learn and their strengths , I think made you know . Like you said , it gave permission for the kids in that class to to be who they , they really are and not worry about making mistakes so much , and it's back to being encouraged to do it Right , Like that's how we talk about that , did you ?
Speaker 2you probably already know this when you make a mistake , your brain learns from it , even if you don't know you've made the mistake . And we talk about that in second grade like a mistake is such a gift . It's a time you grew , even though you didn't even know it . Yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , so you also have something in you lead called the lunch bunch . Can you tell me a little bit about that ?
Speaker 2Yes , so I started a couple of years ago . We had some kiddos . We know one in five kiddos are dyslexic and that year I had 25 kids in my class . Five kiddos were identified during that school year and those identifications are confidential . Right Like . So I talk about my dyslexia and kids have an opportunity to talk about theirs . But nobody wants to like be like oh yeah , me too when they think everybody else doesn't . And so I started doing Dyslexia Lunch Bunch and those five kids came in once a week and we ate lunch together and we watched TED Talks , we watched YouTube videos , we read books and it got to the point where these kids were watching really sophisticated TED Talks with brain scans of how the dyslexic brain works , and it was so powerful because we would each claim our dyslexia .
Speaker 2So I'd be like they would talk about the way some dyslexics see this way , print presents this way , and I'd be like , oh , it doesn't do that to me . And they would go oh , when I read the letters bumble together , or when I read I can't keep track of the lines . And it was empowering them to claim what was going on in a really safe place , that those kiddos are now in fourth grade . We did lunch bunch all second grade , all third grade . They're in fourth grade now and we've started it back up again with third graders and second graders . What a gift for those fourth graders to be able to pass down their experiences , for those second graders to be like , hey , look , there's somebody whose brain works like mine .
Speaker 2We've also talked about how dyslexia is called a disability and how none of us like that feeling . We like the word difference , but that word disability gets us services Right , whether that's right or wrong , and it is something that we are abled differently at . And so we've really kind of desegregated that word and attacked it from various angles to empower them to not be ashamed of that disability label , that , though we talk about it as differences , that that word disabled helps us . It gives us opportunities that we need that wouldn't be there otherwise .
Speaker 1I wish I had had it when I was a kid . It sounds really great . I wish I could do more of that .
Speaker 2Like that's the bummer with teaching is . There's so many ways we could make these wonderful connections and do these awesome opportunities , opportunities . But we're so shackled by curriculum and minutes and access and staffing and you know , when I do the lunch bunch , one of my teaching partners has taken on my recess duty that day so that I can skip recess duty and do this instead . So it takes that community where my challenge , my kiddos challenge , is a challenge I'm taking on . It's part of our Reiki community challenge that my staff steps up for . Yeah .
Speaker 1Well and you've been candid in other areas about . You know how broken the system is and you were just talking about it just now especially for kids with invisible challenges like dyslexia or anxiety or ADHD or , you know , any form of neurodivergence . Where do you think the biggest gaps are and what would you change if you had a magic wand and you could just change that ?
Speaker 2So I think the teacher programs are coming along and starting to embrace things like science of reading and how our brain processes language , and I think that's helping . So we're getting teachers coming in who have better tools in their box . Does that make sense ? The bureaucracy of the systems is atrocious and dyslexia in and of itself does not qualify
Systemic Challenges in Education
Speaker 2a student for learning support . Dyslexia is a learning difference that , with the proper instruction , is manageable . But we don't have every classroom teacher trained in the proper way to be teaching dyslexic kids , which actually is the best way to be teaching all our kids on the autism spectrum or ADHD kids . It's more kinesthetic , it's more vocabulary building and background building and tying in story and language and really , really explicit phonemic and phonetic instruction . So it's what's best for all students . But our system works in such a way that kids have to have a difference . They have to have a cognitive strength and a difference and that difference have to have a difference . They have to have a cognitive strength and a difference and that difference has to be about two years . And so for dyslexia especially , it's frustrating because we can do brain scans on preschoolers and see the way language processes in their brain and know they are dyslexic but to get differentiated support in school systems , the only thing we have is a special ed program , which dyslexia isn't necessarily special ed , but that's the only way we have of accessing support for them , and they can't qualify under a diagnosis of dyslexia . They qualify under a specific learning disability , which means they have a two-year gap between what they can do and what they cognitively are able to do .
Speaker 2So that's frustrating . It's so frustrating . It's also really frustrating keeping and there's so many lenses , right Like I look at my lens of my LGBTQIA plus community , my students and my parents . I look at my lens of racial equity . I look at my friends on the autism spectrum , my ADHD kiddos . There's so many differences that it's almost like everyone's different , right ? Why do we have a one-size-fits-all system when we don't have any one-size-fits-all humans , right ? So the challenge to get support is really frustrating . The families that have means to hire private tutors are able to get that , but those who don't have that means or access don't have it . If I had a magic wand , there would be multiple swoofs of things to fix because it's just so broken and sadly , under the current administration .
Speaker 1I'm sorry to be political . We're headed into a really bad place , autistic or anyone with mental health or any mental health condition . It's terrifying to know what will happen there , which is why people like you on the front lines are gonna have to be strong and just yeah , I mean that's it and we have to do some like privilege guilt .
Speaker 2I think all of us in Oregon feel a bit of privilege guilt , right right , like we're safer . And as an educator , you know the social media is a wonderful blessing to connect people in a lot of ways , and so I teach a geek and follow people from all over the country , all over the world . Really there's some amazing stuff going on everywhere and it's a wonderful way to see what people are doing and how they're attacking problems and how they're celebrating accomplishments . But it's also really terrifying to hear what's going on in different classrooms in our country . On a daily basis things are changing and people are sharing what they've had to remove from their classroom , and that's terrifying what they've had to remove from their classroom , and that's terrifying .
Speaker 2And when we talk about DEIA , dyslexia falls under DEIA . It is a difference , it requires different accessibility and those books in my room that celebrate all our differences I have . I mean you've been in my classroom . I have a little book collection problem . I think it's a good problem to have , but I currently have over 3000 books in my classroom library . To put in perspective the average K-5 classroom , a good classroom library is considered . Between two and 500 books would be considered a good classroom library , so we've got a lot of books in my room , and my books are books that show representation of kiddos and families in our building , but also representation of people they might not have interaction with . This is the way they're going to learn about people with different cultures and different lifestyles and different families and different challenges is through these books , so they can make a connection with those characters and then when they meet someone who fits into one of those differences , they're like hey , I read about Quinny , she had a lot of energy too . Yeah , there we go .
Speaker 2The scientific studies have shown that the more that people read fiction specifically rather than nonfiction , the more developed their compassion will be right , which makes sense the way that your brain processes fiction , the connections that have to be made and the inferences that have to be made .
Speaker 1Right and so , yeah , that's amazing that you have that many books and we do face so many challenges as we move through the current administration and beyond . So I guess I wondered how you know this idea of kind of advocating for your own kids , idea of kind of advocating for your own kids , the kids in your classroom , maybe kids you don't even know how has your journey as a mother deepened or changed how you approach advocacy in education ?
Speaker 2It's funny . We had a kiddo once whose mom was a single mom and her work shift got switched so she wasn't able to pick him up after aftercare anymore . She was having to pick him up at noon every day and I was like this isn't working and I'm not super good at following the rules . I mean I follow him , I just also push the boundaries . And so while this mom was on this weird shift and it was , you know , it was just a couple of months and then the shift would change again . The kiddo was going home and being babysat by a neighbor and I was like I need the kiddo at school . So I said , what if I drive him home after school ? Mom signed a waiver . He's going to say I'm going to drive him home .
Speaker 2But at the time we only had one car in our family , so my husband would pick my kids up at their school . They got out 20 minutes before my school got out . Then they would all drive up , pick me up and this other kiddo , and then we would drive that kiddo home . So my three and that one were all kind of in about the same age and they're having a conversation in the back of the car . One day I was driving , that kiddo said you know , I just want to tell you , guys , thanks for sharing your mom with me . I really like having her at school and my kiddo . Well , you know you see my mom more in a day than we see her more in a day than we see her .
Speaker 2And I ugly cried in the front seat right . These are all my kiddos and I think that when people say , oh , it's not personal , it's the teaching policy or whatever , that's the weird thing about teaching as opposed to other professions is it's all personal , it's all relationship based , it's all personality based . The way we make connections with our students is that personality , students is that personality . And so being a mom I think , just deepened that piece where I know you know there's times
Personal Connection in Teaching
Speaker 2when a kiddo just needs . I had a kiddo come in just last week , was having kind of a cruddy time at home and didn't have enough to eat and I was like , okay , let's get you food . And the kiddo just said , can I just give you a hug ? And he said , yes , you may .
Speaker 2And typically as teachers we get side hugs right . They hug us in our head , we keep all our body parts safe . I was sitting , so I went to stand up to give the kiddo a side hug , but before I got up the kiddo had to give the kiddo a side hug . But before I got up the kiddo had full hug around my neck and just didn't let go . And I think as a mom I get it right , like I get when you need . You need to just be reminded you're somebody's baby and for this 12 months you're my baby and for this 12 months you're my baby .
Speaker 2And I always say once a room 10 kid , always room 10 kid . And , as you say , people that I don't know I have . I have families who I had a sibling in room 10 and then they've left and gone to another school and then have reached out and said hey , my younger kid is showing some issues with their penmanship and I remember you talking about dyslexia . Would you mind sharing some information with their teacher . So I've had conversations with teachers from other schools , like not even in PPS .
Speaker 2I've had people reach out who are in high school , parents reaching out and saying , hey , I remember this , can you help me through this ? Sure , and I don't have all the answers , but I'm happy to be a part of your family's system . Right , I'm honored to get to walk alongside your kiddo as they bravely take these leaps and bounds in second grade . I'm honored to get to walk along the side of the parents who are trying their darndest to figure out this little human that doesn't come with a manual and is so different than what they were , those parents who struggle when their little human is exactly like they are and that drives them crazy because they know the struggles that kiddo is going to have because of that , and I really take it as a privilege to get to be a part , a really intimate part of people's lives for a year and some families it stays longer than a year .
Speaker 1Yeah , I was going to ask do you ever get visits from kids who were in your class 10 , 15 years ago ?
Speaker 2I do , especially because we work right next to the high school , so I get the high school kids coming down . I'll get messages through social media from people saying I don't know if you remember me , but I have parents reach out occasionally through social media or even through my PPS email . I'll still get messages . I also I'm unconventional in that , as long as I can remember , I've shared my cell phone number with my families . I firmly believe I would rather have a parent call me at nine o'clock on a Friday night and tell me something they're upset about than have them stew on it all weekend , talk about it on the soccer field and then hit me hard Monday morning . I would rather and I tell them send me a text . I'm available for Zooms or phone call or whatever .
Speaker 2I've only had one family in 20 some years of having cell phones abuse . That and I was like you know it's one year of abuse . It's not the end of the world . But because of that I get parents sending me text messages saying hey , just wanted to show you we're at the river . Do you remember when you taught about erosion ? My kid was just reminding us about the experiment . It's fun to know that there is that connection , because those kids and those families always are a part of my heart , and so it's fun to know that you're not forgotten even though you just worked with them when they were little .
Speaker 1Never forgotten , that's for sure . So I guess I would ask you , despite everything you see in the system today and the direction that some of this country is going in , what keeps you hopeful or anything that reminds you that change is possible ?
Speaker 2My kiddos seven and eight year olds . It blows my mind how , and part of it is the innocence of youth , right . But and part of it is I work in Portland , oregon , right , we're a very liberal city , a very inclusive city . We haven't always been and we have a horrible racist history , but for the most part we're very liberal leaning and because of that we have parents who have a lot of really open conversations with their kids . Their kids are going to protests , they're hearing about these things and they're participating in those conversations .
Speaker 2And so we had Earth Day last week and as we read the schol , I'm feeling this sense of like , sick of like . But the current administration is wanting to change it . And one of my kiddos brought it up and said I heard that these rules are changing . And I said , well ,
Hope for the Future
Speaker 2what do you think about that ? Like , I think grownups don't follow the rules and we need somebody to make sure grownups are following the rules . And I'm like , oh , I love you , yeah , observant kiddo , I think , seeing the good , seeing these kids love their transgender classmates and say , of course you use she her pronouns , seeing my kids correct another adult who mispronouns a child , they say , oh , nope , they use they them .
Speaker 2And that grownup can then say , oh my gosh , I'm sorry , or I didn't know , but those kids advocate for each other . They're proud to stand up for what they believe're . They don't believe all the fluff , they're calling it out and I think that is really hopeful . And it's hopeful and it's magical and I just have to believe that it will stay magic and cynicism won't take over their little brains and outlooks .
Speaker 1Yeah Well , I can tell you my daughter is still very hopeful and observant and a fierce advocate herself , so she learned something from us . So I wonder , just kind of as we start to wind things down , if you could go back to your second grade self , the one who was put in the worm group or the rock group . What would you say to her now ?
Speaker 2I think I would try and tell her that these things are what's going to make her amazing when she gets older . That said , I don't think it would have mattered . I don't think it would have mattered . I feel like I needed more than one person , well , and I had a family believing in me . I needed proper diagnosis , I needed proper instruction , I needed differentiation , which I ended up getting . But I don't think going back and having a pep talk with myself would have changed it all that much . But on this side of the story , I know that I don't think I would be as passionate about my kiddos who struggle . If I hadn't struggled as much , maybe I would . But I think that I remember those feelings . I don't want anyone to feel those feelings and I fire up when I see those , those negative habits coming out in other . And I don't know if I would be as passionate about that had I not had to struggle the way I did or experience those struggles .
Speaker 1Right , our struggle becomes our strength . Really , it's all part of our story .
Speaker 2We can't change our path , but we can choose how we're going to walk on it .
Speaker 1Exactly so . For any parent listening who has a child with a learning difference , or maybe even suspects that there's a learning difference , what would you want them to know ? Follow your gut .
Speaker 2Parents know best and if something is not right with your kid , ask questions . And if you're not getting answers that feel right , go to somebody else and ask again . Ask your special ed department . Parents have a right to request assessments for special ed anytime so they can reach out and that clock gets ticking If they have means to reach out to other sources there are . You know , in town I send a lot of people towards Reading Specialist PDX . They're an amazing program that assesses . They can identify and diagnose . They have tutoring resources in a variety of ways . They Barb Steinberg is there and she is amazing . She's a parent , a former classroom teacher and just a brilliant person who now is running this company and creating legislature to support better laws for reading and reading instruction . So I think every city has dyslexia supports and has those things .
Speaker 2It's hard to find sometimes , but finding the ways and asking , saying I don't have means to pay $2,500 for this assessment . Do you know somewhere that could help me Check with your pediatrician and say , hey , my kiddo is struggling academically at school . I'm really concerned it's going to start affecting their social , emotional . Can you push this through as a medical issue ? Be where those loopholes are Every insurance , every doctor , every state , every plan is different , but parents know their kids best . And if something isn't right ,
Advice for Parents and Closing Thoughts
Speaker 2don't sit back and accept it . Keep pushing , keep asking the questions , get second and third and fourth opinions . And that said , you know if your teacher is saying no , your kid's just not doing their work . That's another story . If you feel like your kid's working too hard for the outcome , don't back down .
Speaker 1And how would you , if you had anything to say to these parents about how they should interact or could help interact with their children , about this , what would you convey to them ?
Speaker 2Oftentimes , when kiddos get identified with some kind of difference , parents don't want them labeled , and I am the polar opposite . They think , oh , this label is going to be this negative thing . I 1000% feel by letting them know they don't have a label . They have a learning difference . They have something very different about them and the challenges that they experience are not their challenges , it's the challenges of dyslexia . Their struggles in spelling aren't because they are a bad speller . Their struggles in spelling is because their dyslexic brain hasn't learned those spelling rules yet .
Speaker 2Nobody would think twice about telling their child they were diabetic . Nobody would think twice about getting insulin Okay , maybe not nobody . Most people would not think twice about providing medical services to their child and medications for diabetes . But when we identify somebody with ADHD , there's this panic of I don't want a label , I don't want medications , I don't want this .
Speaker 2Be open , have conversations , explore all the options , but let your child know that the behavior that they're experiencing isn't their behavior . They aren't being naughty , they aren't being bad , they aren't being disrespectful . Their ADHD brain causes them to move more . Their ADHD brain causes them delayed auditory processing , so listening to directions takes them longer . It's not them having a problem , it's the way these differences impact their journey and every kid that I have had where parents have told them hey , you learn with dyslexia . Have this relief of I'm not dumb . There's a reason things are hard . I think that is the biggest gift parents can do is allow their kids to know it's not an excuse . You don't stop working at it , but there's a reason . You're having to work harder and kudos to you for stepping up and doing it . Good on you .
Speaker 1Right , we work hard on ourselves , but we don't be hard on ourselves . I love that . I want to thank you for sharing your story with honesty , vulnerability and strength today . Is there anything that you were hoping we were going to talk about , that we didn't get to talk about ?
Speaker 2I just appreciate getting to share my story and my hopes for my students . Hopefully parents get a little nugget out of it .
Speaker 1I think so . I think you know your personal journey and the journey that you shared about your classroom shows what's possible when someone is seen and believed in and has supports that they need , and I think it's a powerful call for us all to do better , as teachers , parents , friends , fellow humans . And so I guess I would say for anyone listening today , whether you're walking through your own learning difference or raising a child with one , or even suspect that your child has one , or just wanna understand better , I'm hoping Jill's story I know it has for me , but I'm hoping that Jill's story is a good reminder that worth is not measured by test scores or neat little boxes or labels . It's kind of found in the messy , beautiful , resilient work of being ourselves . Right , yeah Well , thank you so much , jill . It's been a pleasure to have you on today . I can't wait for people to hear this . Thank you so much for having me .
Speaker 1Yeah , thank you . Thank you for joining me on the Fully Mindful Podcast . If you got value from this episode , I'd love for you to subscribe , leave a review or share this episode with someone who loved this content too . Remember , small moments of mindfulness can lead to big changes in your day-to-day life . Until next time , take a deep breath , stay present and tap into your own mindfulness . I'll see you next week .