The Fully Mindful with Melissa Chureau
The Fully Mindful podcast explores what it is to be fully mindful and present in our everyday lives, uncover our worth and discover our purposes. Host of TFM, Melissa Chureau is a neurodivergent lawyer, mindfulness teacher, and embodiment and breathwork coach. On TFM, Melissa interviews inspiring creatives, wellness leaders, and social disruptors about how they have discovered their purpose(s), authentic wellness, and the value of their work on the world at large.
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The Fully Mindful with Melissa Chureau
Neurodivergence and Addiction: Navigating Recovery and Embracing ADHD with Therapist Andrea Epting
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In this episode of The Fully Mindful, I’m joined by Andrea Epting, a trauma and addiction recovery expert, to dive deep into the intersection of neurodivergence, addiction, and how these challenges uniquely manifest in women. Andrea, who works with individuals navigating trauma and neurodivergence, sheds light on how ADHD is often misdiagnosed in women, with many only receiving a diagnosis later in life due to hormonal shifts.
We explore how ADHD shows up differently for women—particularly in how mental hyperactivity manifests and how it is often mistaken for anxiety or depression. Andrea also discusses the power of self-awareness and community in the healing process, emphasizing the importance of recognizing your neurodivergent brain as a strength, especially when navigating addiction and recovery.
We talk about the impact of EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing), somatic practices, and how we can use these tools to heal from trauma and integrate self-compassion. Additionally, Andrea shares her work at her nonprofit Heads Up Guidance Services (HUGS) in Savannah, Georgia, which provides accessible behavioral health counseling through volunteer professionals, and the release of her Plan to Recover Mini Journal—a resource designed to help individuals automate healthy habits and track their recovery journey.
Whether you are dealing with addiction, neurodivergence, or trauma—or all three—this episode provides hope, tools, and encouragement to continue your healing journey.
Links Mentioned:
- Plan to Recover Mini Journal on Amazon: Plan to Recover Journal
- Direct Impact Podcast: Direct Impact Podcast
- Heads Up Guidance Services (HUGS): Heads Up Savannah
- Resolve Strategies Inc.: Resolve Strategies Inc.
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Introduction to Dr. Andrea Epting
Speaker 1Welcome to the Fully Mindful Podcast. I'm your host, melissa. I designed this podcast for you. I'm so happy you're here. We are talking about what it means to live with more intention, creativity and authenticity, so we can make aligned connections. I'm a neurodivergent lawyer turned coach who found the healing power of breathwork and the powerful impact of mindfulness as we navigate this wild and beautiful ride of life. Here at the Fully Mindful, we dive deep with inspiring guests, share solo mini-sodes that are packed with tools you can apply immediately, and I mix it up a bit with tangents and sidebars where my friend and host of the New World Normal podcast, debbie Harrell. I'll see you next time. Well, welcome everyone to the Fully Mindful. I'm your host, melissa Shiro, and I'm honored to bring you this conversation today.
Speaker 1As someone who's in recovery from alcoholism, has lived with ADHD since childhood and has walked through trauma, this episode is surely going to come close to home. Our guest today is Andrea Epting, an incredibly wise and experienced psychotherapist who brings over two decades of work in trauma recovery, addiction, neurodivergence to the table. She's also someone who understands these challenges personally, as a woman with ADHD and, at least at some point in life, ocd tendencies, and a mother of a couple of neurodivergent young adults, and she's the founder of Heads Up Guidance Services, hugs, a nonprofit committed to making mental health more accessible, and she's here to talk with us today about the intersection of ADHD, trauma and addiction. We'll explore how these often overlap, how we can break the cycle and, most importantly, how healing and resilience are not only possible but deeply personal and powerful. So welcome Dr Epting, it's great to have you here.
Speaker 2Oh, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. This is so much fun, yay.
Speaker 1Yay. Well, I'd like to start a little bit with your story. You've shared openly on other podcast episodes and around that about having ADHD and being a mom to neurodivergent kids and as someone like myself who has been living with ADHD my whole life and having grown up neurodivergent without the language for it, because I was born in the 70s and so it just kind of didn't even exist, or at least not I mean, it existed, but people didn't talk about it. So I'm curious how did your personal experience shape your path to this work?
ADHD Gifts and Personal Experiences
Speaker 2You know, when I look back at the time that I got into the field of psychology, I dropped out of, you know, interior design, which is what I went to school for, and at the time I would have said that nothing from my past shaped it, with the exception of just friends saying, like you're a good listener, like we always come to you for feedback or support, and so I was like, well, I'll try the psychology thing, as long as they don't require too much math.
Speaker 1Oh, I'm with you. Yeah, right there.
Speaker 2Yes, I was like statistics. Yeah, I think I can manage that, but yeah, I would have not known at the time and I wouldn't. I was unaware. But now, when I look back, I think that some of my best gifts come from my ADHD brain, and I love that about myself. It allows me to do and think in ways that I think really lend themselves to the field, and I'm grateful for them.
Speaker 1Yeah, I feel like. I mean, I'm no expert you are but I feel like a lot of people who are diagnosed with ADHD just have this deep empathy for others and, like you said, we see things that maybe other people don't quite see. Do you feel like that's accurate?
Speaker 2Yes, it's a deep empathy, but it's also just like an attunement, which I think can also come out of trauma, right, that's just deep attunement to other people's needs and just being intuitive and thinking out of the box and even creative. You know, all of those things I attribute to my diagnosis. So now I'm very grateful and I can see how that shows up in my work. You know like I'm so drawn to story and I might not even be able to remember a client's name, but I know their story, I know their childhood home in my head, I know what you know their parents and their you know childhood dog that passed away Like I. I can remember in in certain ways that I think other people can't, and it really lends itself well because I'll have clients all the time say, like how on earth do you remember that detail from last year?
Speaker 1And it's the ADHD. Yeah, and it can be really helpful, right, because people feel heard and seen, because you remember these things, right, and the hyper-focus, right.
Speaker 2So you're like completely focused and intent on what they are communicating and how they're communicating it, and what they're saying and what they're not saying, and the body language and just the intricacies of their story. And that hyper focus is something that my colleagues don't really talk about very much. Their mind wonders in ways that the ADHD brain, when it's engaged, does not wonder.
Speaker 1Right, and I mean, and that's it's not to say that ADHD isn't without its difficulties. I mean, it actually does have come with a lot of difficulties, but the gifts from it are also tremendous with a lot of difficulties, but the gifts from it are also tremendous.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, like my orientation to time not great. There are definitely a lot of difficulties that require workarounds, but once you, you know again, are self aware enough to be like, oh yeah, like that is a challenge, and that challenge does come from my brain and the way it's, you know, organizes information and then you can just develop these workarounds and yeah so let's talk about that, I guess, a little bit more.
ADHD and Vulnerability to Addiction
Speaker 1Some people with ADHD struggle with emotional regulation and I'm one of them yeah, me too and that search for stimulation or relief. Can you speak to how this neurological wiring can sometimes make folks with ADHD more vulnerable to addiction or addiction patterns and how it can support a healthier way of that? It feels like a physical need, right that emotional dysregulation can be so strong it can feel physical, right that emotional dysregulation can be so strong it can feel physical, right. Can you talk a little bit about that and how this makes us more vulnerable to addiction patterns and how we might find other relief?
Speaker 2Yeah, so, gosh, when you were talking, I'm like ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, like I can think of like 10 different you know rabbit holes I can go down, but you know one of them is just the dopamine deficiency.
Speaker 2And so if we are not generating and releasing chemicals and there is a deficiency there, then we are going to seek out external stimuli to elicit that Right.
Speaker 2And so that's where drugs and alcohol come in, like it's going to give me the hit that I need to quote, unquote, function the way I want to function, or to get the feel good or to get, you know, the numbing, whatever that I am seeking out Right. So I think about that piece just is kind of a set up for addictive tendencies and behaviors. I also think about, like, the psychosocial feedback that you're getting in childhood and adolescent when your brain works different from other people. Sometimes you are receiving messages that feed these negative core beliefs of I'm not worthy, I'm not smart, I'm not good enough, all of these negative core beliefs of like I'm not going to make it on my own, what am I going to do. And that can also be a setup for addictive, you know, acting out behaviors because you just want to numb that you know, and so yeah, I mean I can think of a lot of different ways that there is a setup.
Speaker 2I also think that there is a certain amount of angst and anxiety and overwhelm that comes up as a result of it, and you know, and that's a lot to manage, and oftentimes people self-medicate with mood-altering chemicals, and so I again. It's just one other reason that I think this population is very high risk for addiction or dependency.
Speaker 1Yeah Well, I know Dr Gabor Mate talks about addiction, not as necessarily. I mean, obviously it's a problem, but that it's people trying to seek relief from pain, just like what you said. That it is not so much a willpower issue or anything like that, but it's if you think about it. It makes sense. If you get a cut on your hand, you're going to try to find something to relieve that pain, and so that's what this impulse is right.
Speaker 2So this lack and it's intuitive, it's instinctual, and so I think it's. You know, again, it's a beautiful thing. It's like, thank goodness you found something that got you through. But it does become problematic and consequences will inevitably ensue, and at that point you know we are forced to find a better, healthier option.
Speaker 1Right, and there's, you know, a myth that that I've heard, and maybe even internalized myself for a while that you know, if you have ADHD or you know another neurodivergent brain, that you're doomed to struggle with addiction or repeated trauma. And what I hear you saying is at least from our conversation so far is like, yeah, that is something that can occur, but it's not necessarily like you're doomed to continue it down this path. Yeah, absolutely not.
Speaker 2You're not doomed to repeat it. I do think the wiring of the brain puts you at high risk and I do think it's to some degree a loaded gun. But some people never fire that gun and for some people who do, some people are just more resilient than others and they're able to catch it faster and course correct.
The Trauma-Addiction-ADHD Intersection
Speaker 1And I mean there's this intersection of ADHD, trauma and addiction. So there's this trauma piece as well. So you even talked about that just a few moments ago where that psychosocial component where people with ADHD or other neurodivergent brains get all this messaging while they're growing up. I know I certainly did. I grew up in the 70s and I don't even think they didn't call it ADHD, they called it minimal brain dysfunction. That was the term and I'm not sure I was aware of that term, but that sort of sets the mood about what was happening, right, and it was like I learned to mask because the messages were so strong that I was different, I was difficult, it was too much, and so that in and of itself there I don't even want to call them mini traumas that's trauma, right, that sustained trauma to be getting those messages. Not to mention people of course experience other sorts of traumas. That may be what we might call the big T traumas throughout life. And so can you talk a little bit about how, like how that intersects ADHD and trauma and addiction?
Speaker 2Yeah, it's a massive overlap. It's a massive overlap and addiction occurs from three or all three different ways, which is it's genetic epigenetics we know a lot about now, so it's passed on from generation to generation that sense of dis-ease that can lead to disease and addiction. And trauma is another way. So, growing up in a dysfunctional family of origin, an addicted family system, experiencing childhood neglect or abandonment or abuse, any type of trauma, or even those negative core beliefs that are instilled, or just that feedback that comes from teachers or the education system or wherever, that's saying like we're not going to make it, we're not going to be okay, what's wrong with you, there's something different about you. Those are traumas. So it can be trauma initiated. It can be genetic, can be trauma initiated. It can also be using to the point of addiction or dependency. Using to the point of addiction or dependency, so like continued use and reinforcing that as so like, if I drink every time, I'm anxious. Every time I'm anxious, I want to drink I mean.
Speaker 2so just continued use over a period of time is going to lead to addiction as well, but oftentimes we see all three of those things present.
Speaker 1Then the next question is how do you Like? Abstinence alone is probably not enough, I'm guessing for somebody who falls into those addictive patterns.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's a really good start and it offers the brain a lot. I don't minimize abstinence, it's just almost can be predicted. You know that if they're just abstinent, they're always going to be high risk. High risk for lapse or full blown relapse. High risk for lapse or full blown relapse and you know, I was actually just talking about this in my podcast.
Speaker 2But it's like that is the importance of going in and doing the deeper level trauma work and like understanding who am I, how is my brain function best, what has happened to me? And healing those wounds so that you don't have to medicate them anymore. Otherwise they're still gaping wounds that you're going to have a tendency to want to medicate in the future. So, yeah, I think and I've experienced I know I'm biased because this is what I treat every day but like, what I have seen happen is that is where we see long-term success and that is where we see clients, where I look at them and I'm like, oh my gosh, I want what you have. I mean, you are thriving and it's just such a beautiful thing to see someone come into their authenticity and to thrive in that manner. And they just couldn't do it until they did the trauma work.
Speaker 1I think that's so key. I know from my own experience that I had been sober for many, many years and I'm grateful for that, and we can talk a little bit more about how people can stay sober. But what I noticed for myself is exactly what you're talking about. So while I had abstinence and I had a community around me and I'm grateful for all of that it wasn't until I started to do some additional work. I had sort of quashed down or pushed down the ADHD and the trauma and there was at some point where that just became like okay, you're going to have to deal with this or something else is going to happen. I don't know what the something else is deal with this or something else is going to happen. I don't know what the something else is, but this is like I have to go there.
Speaker 2So I'd really I had an easier time admitting that I had an alcohol disorder, alcohol use disorder, than I did with admitting that I had ADHD and that I think people have been talking about alcoholism for a lot longer than they have been talking about ADHD and like really understanding what it is, especially how it looks in women. So like yeah, this is just recently I mean, I want to say last eight years like coming on the scene and getting the attention it's always deserved. I think Bill W obviously like brought awareness to alcoholism in the 50s, right, so it's been talked about and hopefully destigmatized. I believe it has been significantly destigmatized since the 50s, but ADHD, yeah, it's just been recent.
Speaker 1It is more recent and, like you said, especially in how it shows up in women. So can you talk a little bit about that, how it might show up differently in women than it does in men, or girls and boys, and women and men?
ADHD in Women vs Men
Speaker 2Yeah, In women it's going to be mostly the hyperactivity is still ADHD. There's no such thing as ADD. People like to say that, but the hyperactivity shows up more mentally and with anxiety, just feeling like you have a ton of tabs open and then you kind of have that fear of forgetting things because there's so many tabs open and there's so much to do, and then the overwhelm kicks in and all of that like that is hyperactivity, but it's going on in the brain. It's not being acted out physically, so we don't see it, we can't observe the way that we can. In young men and young boys, right? I think a lot of the hyperactivity is happening mentally.
Speaker 2I also think we're often misdiagnosed with anxiety or depression instead of the ADHD. It also tends to have a later life onset for a lot of women when we have hormonal shifts and changes, and so a lot of women don't recognize it as ADHD, because isn't that something that's diagnosed in like elementary school? So, and they're like well, I did so well in school and all of this stuff, and it's like yeah, but you know, our bodies they shift and they change. Our hormones shift and change, and what we could at one time, do you know? It becomes much more challenging because of the relationship between estrogen and dopamine. So you know, a lot of women are experiencing it in later life.
Speaker 1I think that piece has yet to be more accepted At least it seems so like they have ADHD and have had a difficult time getting a diagnosis for that, because they say the doctors will say well, you're successful.
Speaker 2So you couldn't possibly have ADHD, which is just terrible. And my thing is, like most of the amazing visionaries and CEOs in this world also have ADHD. You know like our gift is. You know to pull back and think wide and to think big and then get granular. You know neurotypical brains don't do that. They get granular first and then go out, and so visionaries are typically going to be neurodivergent.
Speaker 1Yeah, I like that and I certainly hope that's true. I think it's true, it certainly seems to be, and I think the myth there that even some doctors are operating under is number one, that you can't have ADHD or neurodivergent brain if you're successful. That just is a myth. And then number two, that it is something that, like you were saying, that it has to have been diagnosed in childhood, that if it wasn't diagnosed in childhood, you couldn't possibly have it.
Speaker 2And that seems to be yeah it's just an old way of thinking. It's just. That is the way it was in the 80s and 90s. You were looking for the little boy with hyperactivity and then you know plopping that, you know some Ritalin in his lap and the label of ADHD. And a lot has changed since then and, like I said earlier, just recently are women realizing that it looks different in them.
Speaker 1I can say, even from my own experience. I mean, I've been tested multiple times for ADHD and I have no doubt that I have it. But more recently I had to prove that I had it for a personal reason. And so they gave me not the full blown battery of tests, but just some checklists to mark off, and I was shocked that some of that stuff was still in there. Do you feel like you can't, you know, sit down, that you have to get up? Do you interrupt people incessantly? And I just thought, gosh, you know, this just is sort of based on this old model of what ADHD was.
Speaker 2Right and some of that. Like we've just developed workarounds and I think there's so many societal pressures, particularly on women, like do I want to interrupt? Yeah, I've learned not to interrupt, but do I notice that there is a degree of impulsivity? Yes, I do. I do notice that, but I think, you know, because of the societal pressures and just like, what does a woman do this messaging that you know we're too much or not enough.
Speaker 1all at the same time, how do you help women navigate those emotional layers, especially, you know, women who haven't been diagnosed, who maybe should have been diagnosed and feel like they've missed years of their life, like, oh my gosh, if I had only known this earlier, things would be different.
Speaker 2Yeah, I have a lot of women in my practice who you know they come to me for typically addiction or betrayal, trauma, some level of trauma, intimacy, betrayal and it's hard sometimes to tell if some of their symptoms are specifically due to the trauma they've endured, sometimes over the course of the entire lifetime or the course of their marriage or something like that. So it's hard to tell. But when they ask like, do I have ADHD symptoms? It's very clear. It's like, yes, it is very hard for them to task, initiate, to stay motivated, to regulate emotion and mood. But it's very challenging to see if that's, with my clientele, trauma initiated specifically and recently or if it's something that's happened over time and has been present. So we dive in to a biopsychosocial and better understanding their history and oftentimes ADHD was present from the very, very beginning and you can just tell by the way they organize information, by the way they communicate. It's really just.
Speaker 2It's a cool thing and I see it quite often and I help my clients embrace that and find a way to really lean into their strengths and develop workarounds, especially in difficult times, because if you're in a crisis, if you're experiencing trauma and you have ADHD already, you almost feel like it's impossible to function, it's impossible to get out of bed. You're either in hyper arousal and you're fixated on unimportant things, or you're in hypo arousal and can't make yourself lunch. It's challenging and so, like the first step is just to help them find that diagnosis and help them use that diagnosis to serve them well and to serve them in their process of recovery. And then we go deep into the trauma work and identifying those negative core beliefs. I utilize a modality called EMDR and some other modalities dialectical behavioral therapy and things like that and using those modalities we start to work on the symptoms. So I hope that answers your question.
Speaker 1Yeah, no, that's really helpful. Emdr, for those of you who might be listening, who are like what's that? Can you say what? That is Sure.
EMDR and Healing Modalities
Speaker 2It stands for eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing, although you know, just like ADHD isn't like the greatest term. You know, emdr can be done using a lot of different methods of bilateral brain stimulation, so eye movements is one of them. You can also do auditory, you can do tapping, so you're using bilateral brain stimulation to target one specific neurological network. In this case you mentioned I feel like I'm too much. Okay, so we might target the times that you felt too much, identify and locate where you're holding those emotions in your body. Okay, you will tell me. You know how intense is it when you go either to that memory or when you feel that feeling in your chest? Okay, and then we utilize the bilateral brain stimulation to target that one network and then we desensitize the emotional response and reaction to it and then we insert emotional response and reaction to it and then we insert, you know, a positive, a positive thought, a positive affirmation. Okay, we call it the VOC, but we increase that. So if, instead of feeling like I'm too much, I might say, you know, I just want to feel like I'm me, you know. So you're trying to decrease the emotional reaction and response.
Speaker 2That is really not grounded in the here and now it's not in reality. It's old, it's stagnant. We want to let that pass, we want to resolve that. So that's what we're targeting and decreasing, and then we are increasing the positive response. And you can even float forward into the future. Imagine, you know, in the future, when you feel like you're too much, you know how would you like to shift that cognition into no, this is just me being me and I'm enough. Yeah, that's, that's part of you. Know, one way. There's a lot of different ways that you can engage in EMDR, but what I'll tell you is it's a great way to just stay on one network instead of multiple networks, through talk therapy and different types of talk therapy modalities, and you can make a lot of progress in a short period of time by doing that.
Speaker 1Yeah, I think any somatic practice I see that as a somatic practice is seems to be really effective and I think we live so much of our lives head up and we're very much in our heads just culturally. I mean, that's just where we are. So when we can integrate the whole body and mind to in the healing process, it can be really effective and that's where a lot of those memories and beliefs are stored. It's like, exactly like you said, where do you feel that in your body, like where?
Speaker 2is that? Yeah, and that's the way I do it Like. I do incorporate somatic experiencing in a lot of the modalities that I use, but you know, emdr isn't always a somatic experience. For some people, it's just very connected to a memory or an image that they hold in their mind. You can also incorporate guided imagery. You can do a lot of different things with it, but it can be very powerful again, because there is one specific target that you're desensitizing, and what's so cool about it is, you know, the progress that you make in session that day. It doesn't change, it doesn't go back. You might feel like, oh gosh, I feel great now, but we'll just see what happens next time I'm triggered. But when you get triggered, the response isn't there, and so it's just it's really amazing.
Speaker 1Yeah, I've done EMDR and other practices tapping et cetera and I've gone to try to look for the same sensation Like my brain. I'll go there and it's like. It's just like you said it's not there.
Speaker 2It's like someone has removed it from your brain.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's like. It's like I'm on severance or something that just took it out. I don't know where it is, it's just not there.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's so beautiful because you know, I tell people, don't worry, all your memories will be intact. It's the emotional connection and emotional response. That's no more.
Speaker 1Exactly so different from severance. You actually do remember, yes absolutely.
Speaker 2And some people say, well gosh, I just feel so far away from it. You know, I see it, but I just feel so far away from it it doesn't feel intense anymore.
Speaker 1You know, I see it, but I just feel so far away from it it doesn't feel intense anymore. Yeah, I think that's so fascinating and so amazing, and I mean I could talk to you all day about all the different methods that you use. But I love that, and what I hear from that too, is the way that you are using EMDR in terms of kind of replacing the negative emotion with a more positive one, kind of replacing the negative emotion with a more positive one. I feel like this also and I know this might be a stretch, but I feel like there's a mindfulness and a self-compassion component in that process and that the client is becoming aware of, mindful of the pattern and then replacing it with some form of self-compassion and healing. Does that sound right to you?
Speaker 2It sounds right to me what my favorite part of using that particular modality is. But I'll tell you, it's like every modality I use, but the client really is the professional. You are guiding them through an experience and leading them by utilizing a modality, but the intelligence is 100% in them. They already intuitively know, they know where it is, where it lives, what they want to release and how they would like to feel and live their life. They know it and they find it. It's really just quite amazing the way the human brain works.
Speaker 1Love that. So for anyone who's listening who might have addiction or ADHD or trauma or the trifecta, what I mean it sounds like the first step that you're talking about is getting some help, in whatever form that might be. Is there kind of a more recommended approach?
Community's Role in Recovery
Speaker 2Well, I mean, the good news is that they're listening to this podcast. They're probably not in pre contemplation, they're probably at least in contemplation. So they're contemplating like gosh, what is my relationship to ADHD, what is my relationship to addiction? And if you're already there, like that is, the first step is being like more emotionally intelligent, self aware and willing to look inward and then I hope at that point you see that you're worth it to reach out for, to go in it on a deeper dive into, like, really experience the journey of recovery and self-discovery of self. Yeah, it's important.
Speaker 1And I think I've heard you say in other podcasts that community is a really important part of this recovery journey. Can you speak a little bit about that?
Speaker 2Yeah, this is the way I think of it is the addiction is is the opposite of connection.
Speaker 2There is no connection in the dis-ease or disease of addiction, and that's why community is vital is because it creates connection. It creates an opportunity to see yourself in others and to be seen by others, and just a really important step. I think it's a really important part of the recovery process because sometimes we can see in others what we can't quite see in ourselves yet. They can see in you and bring out in you things that you might not have noticed because you have blinders on, like we all do. Right, I cannot say how important community is in the recovery process. I have a podcast episode called Community is Key and it just goes through all of the reasons that engaging in a recovery community is vital.
Speaker 1And it doesn't have to be 12-step, although I mean, for me 12-step has been instrumental in my sobriety. So have other communities that I belong to that are focused on self-development or self-improvement. I'm putting that in quotes because I don't think we need to improve, but healing, and so it doesn't have to be one way or the other that people find community right.
Speaker 2Right, no, and it's a scary thing. So I don't minimize that it's scary, but you know, vulnerability is a necessary component in the recovery process and so, like anytime you feel that resistance, I say like lean into it, do those challenging, scary things, because there's usually like jewels and gems on the other side of it, if you're willing.
Speaker 1A hundred percent, and it does take courage to take that first step to join a community or to be vulnerable within the community. And I also think identification and that's something that you talked about too seeing yourself and other people and other people seeing themselves in you, is a huge component being seen and heard and validated for what you might be struggling with or what your joys and your wins might be.
Speaker 2Absolutely, absolutely yeah.
HUGS Nonprofit and Resources
Speaker 1So, oh my gosh, I could talk to you forever, but I want to get to your. You have a nonprofit, is that right?
Speaker 2Yeah, I have a nonprofit organization called Heads Up Guidance Services we call it HUGS in Savannah Georgia and we make behavioral health counseling available for all motivated individuals and we provide services at the rate of $25 for both individual couples, family services, and we do so by utilizing 100% volunteer professionals. So we have about 20 volunteer professionals who come in to meet with their caseload on a weekly basis and that's how we meet community needs mental health needs in Savannah Georgia, and I also have a private practice where we specialize in trauma-initiated process addictions, specifically focusing on betrayal trauma and sexual compulsivity, eating disorders and neurodivergency, and it's a group private practice, also in Savannah Georgia.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's amazing. I'm in Portland, oregon, and I don't know that there is something like that here. But certainly I think that model should be repeated, we agree, because therapy and healing should not just be people with insurance or the wealthy Right. I mean, it really benefits everyone, like you said, who's motivated to engage in it. So I'm really heartened that you have that. Have you tried to bring that model to other, or have people asked you about bringing that model?
Speaker 2Yeah, people do. They ask often. We are in the process of spreading our wings a tad and opening some satellite offices as well. It's not a model that we've seen anywhere else. We do also believe that it is a model with a mission that really needs to be embedded in every city and every state, because if you are motivated to health and wellness, you need and deserve people who are willing to bring it to you. So that's what we do and we're very passionate about it. You know, the other part of our mission is we are developing the next generation of quality professional. We're very passionate about the professionals that we develop that are going to enter into our community and serve our community and meet community needs, serve our community and meet community needs. So that's another big part of our mission is to make sure that we develop and train by offering training and supervision and direction and continuing education for people at all levels and stages of their professional development.
Speaker 1Yeah. So my message to all the therapists who might be listening, or anyone out there who wants to advocate for this like this is a thing that works in Savannah, georgia and has for some time, and can work in your city too.
Speaker 2Yeah, we've been around since 08. You've been around as long as my daughter. It works, it works.
Speaker 1Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2We're demonetizing mental health.
Speaker 1Which I think is right. So, kind of closing in here toward the end what are you currently working on or excited about that's coming up for coming down the road for you?
Speaker 2Yeah, so lots of things. We're always working on a ton of things, but I did release a plan to recover mini journal and it's a journal for recovery and self-discovery and you can find that on Amazon. It is a 90-day plan to decrease unwanted behaviors and automate healthy habits in an AM routine and PM routine and so recovery and self-discovery. So you know we're very excited about the Plan to Recover journal and in our podcast, which is the Direct Impact Podcast with Andrea Epting.
Speaker 1No, I love that and I'm very excited to see the journal Plan to Recover because I think it would be so helpful to people anyone right the ADHD brain.
Speaker 2I mean like I developed it because I released it into the world, because it worked so well for me, and so I mean I have to believe that it will work for other neurodivergent brains.
Speaker 1Well, it provides some structure right and we need that structure. We have problems with structure. We're really great about thinking outside the box, but sometimes it's hard to be in the box and we resist that.
Speaker 2I resisted a journaling practice period for years. Me too. We resist structure, but we thrive in it. Yes, that's the irony, and so I mean and I'm sure we do that in so many areas of our life right, we resist what we know we need most.
Speaker 1Oh, 100%, I know I will laugh. I teach mindfulness and breath work and I'll always say like, maybe after a session, if you're the kind of person who journals cause I recognize not all of us are the kind of people who journal, but this is the kind of journal I could get behind, Right, Because it's there are prompts, it's not like. It's not like you're just hey, just write about whatever, and you don't have all freaking like day to journal.
Speaker 2So like the way we develop is like these are the things that you really do need to engage on a daily basis, and it takes about 30 seconds, and these are the things that you could. When you have days, go a little bit deeper, you can go into that self-discovery portion, but either way, you really are holding yourself accountable to new behaviors and automating them by being consistent for 90 days.
Speaker 1It's so great. I can't wait to order it and try it, and then I'll report back to the listeners Please do so that's wonderful, and we'll put all this stuff just for anyone listening. We'll put it in the show notes, the links to Epting's book and the podcast and all the wonderful things. So I guess I want to leave with and I mean you've already exhibited this, but maybe in words you could identify what is giving you hope in this work- yeah, well, the people give me hope.
Speaker 2There's nothing that I love more than treating addictive diseases, because this is a path, a well-worn path, that millions and millions of people have traveled down and we know that there is success at the other end of it. I love working in this because there is healing, there is recovery and people are recovering and finding themselves, and it is just such a beautiful thing to see people, to see people who know themselves, who have boundaries, who are leaving a valuable, amazing legacy to their family. I have so much hope because I see the humans, I see the human condition, and it is good.
Speaker 1Yeah, it is good. I love that. Well, anything that we didn't get a chance to talk about, that you were hoping to talk about, no, not no.
Speaker 2I mean I think that we covered a lot and I'm just so grateful for the opportunity to meet your audience and to talk with you.
Speaker 1Yeah, I really appreciate your time and your expertise and your energy. It's so exciting and a little bit contagious. So it's great for me and I know it will be for the listeners If you could tell us where people can find you so that when they want to learn more about your podcast, more about you and what you're doing- the podcast you can find at wwwlightninginabottlebiz.
Speaker 2Hugs Heads Up Guidance Services. The nonprofit you can find at wwwheadsupsavannahorg, and my private practice, resolve Strategies Inc, is at wwwresolvestrategiesinccom.
Speaker 1Folks can find your book on Amazon or wherever.
Speaker 2Amazon, KDP. And if you type in either the plan to recover mini journal or if you type in Andrea Epting, you'll see both the direct impact podcast and the journal.
Speaker 1Lovely. Well, I'm looking forward to it. Thank you so much. It's been great to have you. I'll let you sign off and get ready for the big day ahead.
Speaker 2Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1Thank you. Thank you for joining me on the Fully Mindful Podcast. If you got value from this episode, I'd love for you to subscribe, leave a review or share this episode with someone who loved this content too. Remember, small moments of mindfulness can lead to big changes in your day-to-day life. Until next time, take a deep breath, stay present and tap into your own mindfulness. I'll see you next week.