Motherhood Relabelled
Motherhood Relabelled
13. Top Tips for Effective Branding 101 with our Very Own Tania Salvati đź’Ą
In this week's episode we dive deep into the world of branding and design with our very own Tania Salvati, who happens to co-own brand design agency ET Collective and therefore knows a thing or two about branding. 🙏
She's also currently helping Vanessa to create the branding for her new business and so we thought we'd take you all through that process and discuss some practical tips along the way. 💪🏻
We chat about...
- Why Branding is Important and what Makes Effective Branding...
- The Branding Process
- Our Favourite Brands and What they Have in Common
- Tips on Naming a Business
- Picking Brand Elements e.g. Font Pairing & the Meaning of Colours
- Quick Wins and Must Haves for Branding to Get Started
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Motherhood Relabelled is a non-parenting podcast for all parents who don’t let the “parenthood label” hold them back. It’s for those who think that parenthood is a part of us, but not the only thing that defines us. Travelling with kids? Sure! Starting a business with kids? Absolutely! Feeling the fittest and strongest you’ve ever felt with kids? Most certainly! This podcast is your weekly dose of making yourself and your own goals a priority.
Well, hello, vanessa Welcome back, Welcome back.
Speaker 2:Well, we took a break last week, everyone. It was just, you know, all too much. We were so busy so we just couldn't fit it in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and I have to apologise in advance for my manly sounding voice tonight, so please bear with me. And hopefully not too many coughs and sneezes in between.
Speaker 2:That's the winter season Germs everywhere, sickness Absolutely, Even though I want to touch wood but like Theo, hasn't been sick in four or five weeks.
Speaker 1:I really shouldn't be saying that.
Speaker 2:But you know, since you recommended the vitamins, oh good, maybe it must help. See, like I said, I'm not a pantovide. Exactly, i'm not sure if it's a coincidence or not. I don't care, doesn't matter. In my head it's working. I'm like keep going, you know, because yeah, no.
Speaker 1:Good to hear.
Speaker 2:He's had a good run, so let's see how long that lasts. But, I'm getting nervous because we've got one month left to Europe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's exciting.
Speaker 2:It's exciting, but now I'm like, oh, last week, before we go, maybe I should leave him out of deck.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just to make sure. Yeah, like you know, you know, because it won't be very pleasant, but I don't know. What can you do?
Speaker 2:That's right, i figure, you know now that they're like he's a bit older, he's more resilient. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, that's right. No, that's fragile.
Speaker 1:It used to be when he was tiny, to like be traveling, this time compared to last time, because he was like a baby and he just slept pretty much the whole time. right, he did.
Speaker 2:And he's very different. So today I bought heaps of stuff on Amazon like little toys, like spinning toys, like a busy book Yeah, busy books are great, But like one where he hopefully really stays busy. Like like one of those Montessori ones.
Speaker 1:So hopefully that will work And take them out like not all at once, yeah, like just introduce a cup, you know one every whatever, however many hours you've got to go 20 plain hours.
Speaker 2:And another thing I bought was like a sticker book. So, like you know, with those thicker, like reusable for me stickers So hopefully that will, because that he can stick, you know, at the back of the seat or whatever Like, because he's not really at the age where he could watch a screen, necessarily.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm still going to download a few Miss Rachel's on my phone.
Speaker 2:So I can use that without Wi-Fi.
Speaker 1:That's also part of my strategy.
Speaker 2:Perfect, yeah, that's good, but other, like for instance the movies on the plane, he wouldn't really watch.
Speaker 1:You won't be interested, and also for the sound. It's going to be tricky to put it on his ears, i imagine. But I'm going to take some earmuffs as well, this time, because you might, you know oh, yes, it's true, the blind might be. Yeah, yeah, it's not fun.
Speaker 2:The only other thing I'm a little bit concerned about is the food situation, because I haven't just booked him a seat right Because he's under two, so you're not actually getting any foods for him. Ok, that's interesting. They've really thought about that, which isn't necessarily a problem, because I would happily bring stuff, it's just what can I bring through security? You know like what can you and can't you bring? So I think I must do a bit more research on that.
Speaker 1:I'm sure any of those pouches you can bring Just like for 24 hours.
Speaker 2:He probably would want some other things. Other things other than that Maybe like biscuits And maybe I can still also share some. I'm sure you could get food that I eat, Yeah.
Speaker 1:I feel like you could probably ask for a kid's meal. Yeah, he probably ate your own food. Yeah, that's right, He cut it up tender meat or, you know, veggies. I'm pretty sure that they have multiple.
Speaker 2:He appreciate much more my cooking after you said it, absolutely, i know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he won't like the plain food, no doubt, but anyway, i'm sure I mean you never know He might like it, because it's something different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's true. Well, that's what I've been up to. Yeah, many more things. What about you? What's the highlight from your?
Speaker 1:last week Well, actually, joel and I got to have a date night which was fun and a little different. So he asked his mum to come and mine, toby, which is great. And there was a comedy night down at our local pub and Arj Barker, who's an American comedian almost almost, you know, australians will claim him anyway but super funny and it was just so good to have a laugh Was it good.
Speaker 1:So good, so funny, And they'll support acts as well. But I kind of can't recommend going to comedy at least once a month for everybody. Like to have a laugh. Mental health like protocol. Like you really feel so good after having a laugh, like it's really great for your health. So really really good recommendation Yeah, book it. And we're so lucky we live Monthly Well apparently it is at the Kujibai Hotel, i think we should do like a combined dance night Totally.
Speaker 1:So yeah, i have to look into it. But this particular guy was like a once off because he's quite a big act. But I'm pretty sure I heard them say that they do it, you know, regularly. Yeah, so, yeah. So I definitely look into it again, especially because it's just down the road.
Speaker 2:Like it's so easy. Do they do trivia as well? Stuff like that, because that could be a fun thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally I do. We do love trivia. We've been to a few trivia pubs. I'm so bad at trivia, suck. I do love it, but I'm not great. I can't say I'm that great at it, like you know, and obviously Joel's very good at the sports side of things And you know I can do music. Klimaw is excellent at music.
Speaker 2:I'm not great. He knows every name of every song and artist, like it's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:It's a real good skill. Like you know, and it's cool when you've got a group of people who have different skills, Different specialties Yeah different specialties. So that was some, But yeah, like the comedy thing was heaps of fun. And then it was Joel's birthday on Friday night And we just all went out to dinner and had a surprise not a surprise, but we invited his brother and little kids to come as well.
Speaker 2:So was he happy about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we went to a cool little place in Forest Lodge or Glee, called the Tram Sheds And I sort of booked it, partly because there's like a full sized tram in the restaurant. I don't want to keep the kids busy. Yeah, entertained, but like it was slightly closed. But I did ask the owner if we could go in and have a look and he let us in. So, you know, toby and the little Austin, who's our nephew, he got to have a little go as well. So yeah, it's great. It's okay, like you know, if I had to recommend it. But yeah, it was just like more of the ease of a place to go and park and park.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was always a struggle, isn't it?
Speaker 2:And Jill out of Messina was like next door, Oh really, oh God, i always end up like when I go out for dinner, like in Surrey Hills or whatever, like I always end up at Messina for dessert. It's like, yeah, you either get the dessert at the restaurant or you like hold on and you got to go to Messina And tomorrow. I always do the same. We're like let's have a look at the dessert menu.
Speaker 1:Otherwise Messina That's true, i know So, but no, it was all around good week and then took Toby to the zoo on Sunday and that was good fun. Oh cool, you know, in my mind, i'm a zoo friend, so I have, like you know, the membership and so for the year, you know, you can have a free entry for an adult and a child And I really don't need it enough. And it was just, yeah, it was great. And I just in my mind going, i thought we're just going to go and see a couple of animals and not like have to worry about feeling like you've got to see everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know that's true, because you don't technically pay for the check. It's like you don't feel this immense pressure.
Speaker 1:You don't feel bad about missing out on certain animals, but I feel like next time we'll go, we'll see. we didn't get to see really any of the watery animals like the seals and the dolphins, and give you a reason to go back, yeah. So I feel like, yeah, we can definitely do that.
Speaker 1:Another trip, but you know we saw the tigers and I asked I did ask Toby at the end of the day like what was your favorite part? And he said the motorbike. There was like this random old motorbike that was like it's like you know, a stationary thing, like you know, because they make it look like, when you go and see the tigers, like it's like Sumatra And so like it's all you know, kind of corrugated iron and there's all like it's really it's really done quite beautifully and authentically. And he was just in love with that And I was so obsessed with the tiger and the tiger is so beautiful.
Speaker 1:I know, and they kept running off They come so close and that was about time for them to eat, And so they were pacing and roaring at each other. It was just mind-blowing. And Toby was at this you know dingy little motorbike that he was obsessed with and kept running off, and I was like half looking at him and half looking at the tigers. But anyway, it was a great day and just fun. And now it's more fun, obviously now that he understands Totally You know, everything just becomes much more like interesting, right.
Speaker 1:Because you can do many more things together. Yeah, So cool. So that was, you know, partly all the all the film I cups for this week.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful, And so Toby has changed his daycare right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so he has. He's upgraded to the two to three year olds and he's doing pretty well. He. We actually have had a bit of a breakthrough this week. We have managed to ask the dummy fairy to come and take his dummy away and give it to the babies who cry. So that's been a, i know, and so we just thought, you know, it was time, like he's to um and he's so attached to it And you know, we were literally on our last dummy and I thought this is it.
Speaker 1:Not buying it, i want buying anymore And they just go so crusty after like a while, like you, just that seemed like grow things And I'm like, oh gross, this is disgusting. So I just chucked them. So we're all, we're on our last one. And we'd gone and stayed at my mom's like on the weekend and, um, he couldn't find, we couldn't find it, and so he had to go to bed without it. And then I just sort of made up the story that the dummy fairy must have come to take it and, um, you know, he cried for a little bit, but then he was like, okay, fine, and I said, you know, the babies that we see that cry, like you know, they need the dummy. Yeah, you're a big boy now And so now he just, you know, it has taken a bit longer for him to get to sleep, but that's not unusual anyway, cause he likes to fuss around, but um, yeah, he doesn't ask for it at all. That's crazy.
Speaker 2:He might remember, but like it's used to, yeah, it's didn't take long. So I was super surprised See something you dreaded so much, right, like I mean, you handled it really well, like that was quite smart. But um, you know, i feel like sometimes in our head we create, we make it.
Speaker 1:you know such a big deal when you see how adaptable they are They really are Like it's all in your head And you know cause?
Speaker 2:you feel bad and well, you know, I think, yeah, we look. It's also understandable, Like we care for them, Like we want them to be comfortable and have the things that are important for them. So you know, in your head you're like, oh, how can I take it away from them?
Speaker 1:Exactly. But yeah, you know, and it's just going to ruin his teeth, like in the long term like they say, like once it gets to three years old, you know, and I can already start seeing like the forming of his teeth moving forward, because of it So it's not great, so hopefully they'll, you know, fix themselves up from now on. Congratulations.
Speaker 2:That's big achievement. It's a big deal. I know So proud of Toby.
Speaker 1:Sorry, me too I'm so proud of him, Like I, just you know we'd never thought that he'd ever give this dummy up. That would be that easy Like cause. There were times that we'd have like three dummies two in each hand, one in the mouth, sometimes two in the mouth, you know. So it was just like, well, how are we ever going to get rid of this thing? Oh my God, that's so cool, that was cool, awesome. Anyway, sorry, i know we've.
Speaker 2:we've had a long intro. I feel like you know we had a lot to catch up on since we missed last week. So that's, that's all right. So this week we have a little bit of a special episode, we thought, since we're working on um, so Tania's helping me um with the branding of my new business, which is super exciting, and she's doing a fabulous job. Like I'm absolutely loving everything she's putting together, like so much thought and detail.
Speaker 2:Anyway so we thought, you know, some of our listeners might actually be, yeah, either in the process of launching their own business or wanting or maybe thinking about launching their business in the future. So we thought why not take time and actually reflect on the process that Tania goes through when she yeah, when she works on the branding and it's you know what she does in her business? So we thought that could be helpful to understand you know what makes a successful brand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it's a good question And I think you know people do branding very differently, yeah, But essentially, you know there are a key few things that make a good brand, and I think you're in the business of brand strategy So you appreciate that sort of thing. But you know, I think, i guess, to start, you know what is it that and why is branding important? I think that's that's the question to ask, and I think the thing is it gives you a point of difference. It's what sets you apart from your competitors. You know it's like your front door, you know, to your brand. It enables you to build emotional connections with your audience. You know, and and you know that way that they connect with you on a deeper level. So that's that's really important And that would be either with you know your people, like even that, your employees, when you are big enough to have employees you know your customers, your clients.
Speaker 1:So it's really just how to connect with brand. But also, you know you do gain that recognition and trust from your, from your customers, with loyalty as well. And, yeah, overall, it is your badge, it is your face, you know it's. It's what is people recognize, yeah, and associate when they see a particular logo, a color, a font. You know all these elements that make up a brand.
Speaker 2:So you know branding is important essentially because it is making it is your point of difference Totally, and I think, and your identity as a company, i guess, but also what I find so fascinating about branding as well, and that you know, when we go deeper into the level of, like your work, which obviously is more in the brand design, brand identity space, what I find fascinating is just even like theory of colors, you know, like certain colors like have a special meaning or a focus special emotion.
Speaker 2:Like you, know like there's certain businesses or certain industries, even like that. That's why you know, when we work, or the work we do for our clients, like a big part of it is looking at competitors And you often find that in categories like there's a dominant color Definitely Food, for a reason Yeah, that's right. Red, red, yellow, always hunger cues, hunger cues right, that's right. That's why Hungry Jack and McDonald's like it's all the reds.
Speaker 1:They don't often have blue, because blue is not really a hunger. You know color at all. It's associated with. You know bad mold and you know things like that. So you never eat on a excuse me a blue plate. You know sort of thing. So there's all sorts of color theories.
Speaker 2:I love that, like. That's what I find really really interesting And I think you know to your point it's not like brand strategy is obviously it's kind of like it defines your vision and goals and values. But then I think you know what you obviously specialize in is like more of the, i guess, yeah, the front door.
Speaker 1:Yeah, visual, yeah, visual, exactly. Visual identity. Yeah, because there's also the verbal identity and that's also how you sound and your tone of voice, which we do. Yeah, absolutely Like.
Speaker 2:I love your words, like oh my God, words are super important It is so true, and I feel like you know both when words and visuals come together. That's where the true magic happens And it's so interesting because I feel like I do this for my clients all the time, but when it comes to my own business and I think you mentioned that before as well like when you have to do it for your business, you're just like there with a blank page and you're like, i can't cannot write it Even though you have it clean.
Speaker 2:You have it clean in your head, but it's just like the words are not flowing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And then I brief you on it and you come back with this beautifully written manifesto. It's like haha that was fun.
Speaker 1:That's it, it's like that's it, and when it connects and it resonates you're like and it makes gives you goosebumps. You know that you know you're onto something. Yeah, So it's. I love writing manifestos, It's just. it's just a way to bring all the meaning and everything about your brand into one nicely written piece.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like a bio, like a personal, but you know, beautifully written, i guess. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So I guess you know to get into the key brand elements you know for effective branding. You know, as we talked about the brand show that's. That includes developing your why And we've talked about this before. It's your purpose, it's you know what gets you up every morning, why do you do what you do And we do. We do a fun exercise Actually we did it for a Vanessa's brand And to to reach your why, we kind of do this thing that uses, it's kind of like called a bit of it's, it's the five wires, so you pay. Basically, you know, explain, you know the business that you're in and you keep asking why is it important? Why is it important, why is it important? five times until you kind of boil it right down to the fundamental reason why you know that it is important.
Speaker 2:That is so true because I feel like sometimes you know, we think that we know why, like, and you say it. But yeah, there's so many underlying reasons that you know by constantly asking why, you really unveil the true reason.
Speaker 1:So I mean it's a fun exercise to do So, if you already have a brand.
Speaker 1:You know, i recommend giving it a go because it is quite cool, because it might change your vision Yeah, absolutely. But you know, and you'd already had to go at your vision, your vision. So your vision is obviously what it is and what you're trying to achieve. You know what's the future goal, the mission is how you're going to get there. Yeah, and then those we see. You know you've got your values, which are a set of values, and they're obviously aligned to you and your own personality as well. But you know, your brand personality is another thing that helps define your tone of voice and how you speak as a brand. Yeah, so that's, that's all part of you know, i guess the brand platform is what we call and that's the brand strategy.
Speaker 1:But, and also within a brand, we also come up with a brand idea and you know people call it different things, But you know we used to call it at the agency that I used to work at a single organizing idea And it does exactly what it says it organizes. So it helps an organization organize their business with this one single thought and it helps them, you know, from from hiring staff to making decisions, You know, if everything's based on this one idea, for example, Apple used to be I'm not sure if they've updated it, but it always used to be think different. Yeah, So everything that they do in their business, yeah, thinks differently. It's like a tagline. It can be sometimes a tagline, but it's sometimes and it's. You know, some people do use it as a tagline, but sometimes it's just more of an internal message, Yeah, And it can be, you know, externally, kind of expressed differently. Yeah, You know BP used to stand for beyond petroleum, So everything they do is beyond petroleum, like you know, they're doing things for sustainability and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1:You know Airbnb is a cool one. I love Airbnb and that's fairly. it's a current one and it's belong anywhere. Yeah, that's a nice one And it's just so. it makes so much sense and it's true to what they stand for. So yeah, essentially it's like Nike, just do it.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's a tagline, I guess, like yeah to your point, it's not always a tagline, Yeah it can be.
Speaker 1:It can be, but it's a brand idea And sometimes brand ideas do change, which is why I'm unsure of, you know, if apples is still think different, i'm sure there are underlying you know messages to that, because they've always wanted to be pioneering and innovative and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you know, and BMW used to be driving excellence over here, they do is all leading up and the values, I think it all leads up to that right, So that idea to the end of everything, exactly.
Speaker 1:Right. So you know, it really is this whole puzzle, piece of elements that come together, form this platform or blueprint, whatever people have different names for it. And then there's the brand identity itself, and that's, you know, both visual and verbal, and they represent your brand And that includes you know what's your logo and you know people used to come to us and go we just want a really great logo. Look, we don't do just really great logos, we do, we do brand, brand identity, you know, and a brand identity consists of a logo. That's one part of your brand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, you've got a color palette of the puzzle, Yeah one piece of the puzzle.
Speaker 1:You've got a color palette. You've got you know typography and what is. You know what's your approach to color. Sorry, color and fonts. You know what do your fonts say about you. What does color say about you? You know what. What illustrations do you use, if any? What iconography do you use? You know photography style like because there's you know, you can easily get into a same same sort of style of photography. What's what does your photography say about you?
Speaker 1:and what's unique to it that you can build into your brand And you know there's so much out there with photography and you know, maybe you know it's it's why things are photographed or for your you know project. How how will we, you know, shoot the products?
Speaker 1:you know that you will sell. Yeah, yeah, you know. And what does that say about your brand? when we do that, you know, and I think it's just, it's just really creating a style like that people then recognize as part of your brand. You know whether it's, you know, photographing people, kids, for example, on bright colors, which was actually an option. You know, like and and oh, colors, colors of your brand. Like you know it's it's the worlds of our oyster, but, but it's just having that consistency and that's super key to creating a brand and a brand identity. And then we get into key messaging. So, you know, developing that brand story. You know that, that narrative. And you know even your elevator pitch. Like you know, how do you explain what you do in a very short sentence? You know that's. It's really hard for most people. 100%, you know. I think it is like it's unless you really are super clear, like because you want to get so much into that sort of sort of elevator pitch, like well, it's also like most businesses, they have that bigger vision.
Speaker 2:Or it's not as simple as just that? this one specific product that can be described in a sentence.
Speaker 1:It's much more complicated than that. That's right, and you feel like you want to tell them everything. But you know you've only got a short amount of time in the elevator to tell somebody.
Speaker 2:It's almost like thinking you know what? would you tell the investor that you, you know exactly, absolutely?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, i get it Absolutely. So, yeah. So, look, you know key messaging is super important and that you know, and that may include your tagline and and your value propositions as well. And then you know it's not just branding, it's not just about the visual and elements and messaging, it also extends to the overall experience that you have with your customers and your and your people. That makes sense. Yeah, so, from you know what are those touch points, what are those interactions? Yeah, and you know from the moment they first see you somewhere The website you know what's your customer's service like. You know to product packaging, to retail environments or whatever it might be. You know what's your Instagram, what's your communication style Communication like correspondence Yeah.
Speaker 1:Absolutely So you know what this all boils down to, as well as consistency and delivering a positive brand. experience, will you know, will always help build trust and loyalty and advocacy with your customers and clients and people. Yeah, so you know, and then we'll get into the documentation of that sort of stuff, and that gets into guidelines and templates and all the fun stuff all the nitty gritty, so you know.
Speaker 1:I think like correct me if I'm wrong, but the bigger the cooperation, the more intense the guidelines are And look, you know we've had our fair share of intense guidelines, but you know we've created them, we've, you know, broken them, but you know they don't have to be really big and arduous and you know long and I just feel like nobody reads anymore. No one has time. So showing the way that a brand could work with a few rules is all people really want More of a style guide versus a guideline.
Speaker 2:Well, that's actually funny because I'm like I look at what you created for me and I'm like, oh my God, i hope I'm not gonna watch the product.
Speaker 1:No, you will definitely not. Thank you for not starting on the website.
Speaker 2:I do, but I still like just Yeah, to your point, I think like a few guidelines actually. Yeah that's like do some dance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know it's all working progress, like you know, so it's yeah. Like and there are so many templates and things out there. More and more people you know are building things in Canva and you know, use those templates and tools And I think we've talked about this is like you know the square spaces, just to start.
Speaker 1:you know, just to get a feel for what the brain could look like. You know, use those, you know the. what you see is what you get whizzy, wig, you know kind of things out there, so that way you can cut to the chase quicker, Totally 100%.
Speaker 2:And then you can always optimize. Right, Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And when you need to come back to a designer, like you know, because you know everyone's very mindful of budget and stuff you know these days. So you know whatever you can do yourself. At the same time, i do say outsource whatever you can like doing can outsource, you know so that's the other thing. So it's just that fine line, fine line. But yeah, look, you know, this is all part of a brand, and building a brand and startups is just getting it out there 100%.
Speaker 2:Well, interesting with the Canva as well, because I actually haven't really used Canva much myself, like I'm an Adobe girl, yeah same And I just always feel like It's cheating. It's cheating, but it probably can't live up to the Adobe. But then I'm not so sure anymore because I keep seeing like how much it has progressed And I'm tempted to check it out.
Speaker 1:More people like I mean the only like you know, i guess to date, people who are non-designers would design things in PowerPoint, so any, program that we have access to that people can you know use to make their life easier is better than PowerPoint. Yeah, powerpoint and Word you know all those you know Not designed for They're not designed for platforms.
Speaker 1:But you know, because people, that's all people know to use and that's what they do. But Canva has yeah, it's, it is actually really intuitive. I've played around in Canva for a client and just really setting up their brand elements within it So they could then update assets themselves.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:So I've uploaded, you know, their colour palette, their logo, so it's. And once those elements are in there, they can keep creating stuff you know from Instagram tiles to animations, to all the stuff. Yeah, that's fascinating with the animations and stuff And also like it's all pre-cut, Like you don't have to resize or anything.
Speaker 2:You have less freedom, I guess. Because it's more like prescriptive, but at the same time, it gives you exactly what you need, based on the channel you're creating for right.
Speaker 1:I am finding that it doesn't. I think people then struggle with the consistency, however, because you have this like world of all these extra design elements and things that might not necessarily be part of your brand.
Speaker 1:Ok, and I feel like they get Oh they're kind of They creep into like you know, the branding, which you know, yeah, that's, it's each their own and how they want to interpret it. But, yeah, because the elements, the design elements, and they're to use, they feel like they can use them and you can, you know, change them up. So, yeah, i find it's trickier to stick to the brand style, but, look, i reckon, yeah, give it a go, like have a play around.
Speaker 2:I know you can do it for free.
Speaker 1:I think I've had to sign up because of, you know, being a business and whatever and giving access to other people. But yeah, look, it's an interesting platform and lots of more, Lots and lots more people are using it. But you know, I guess it's the design tool for the non-designer. Yeah, So it's, And especially because you're very intuitive, you know, with design and software.
Speaker 2:Yeah, could be interesting to look into. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I love the way that things are already templated in terms of sizes, like you don't have to look up every, because you know when you look in your Adobe, you know when you use your Adobe Suite, you know you basically have to know what the size that you're going to set up your page to Yeah, yeah, or your app order, whatever it might be. So, yeah, look, it's worth exploring and looking into. Very interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, And when you start working on a branding brief, like, do you have a special process in place or what you follow, that you know over the years, it's like kind of become your methodology.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i mean, look, it's very It's varied depending on the project. When we're talking about identity and branding, you know we always have that sort of, i guess, discovery phase. It really depends on what the project lends itself to do, you know. And that initial discovery phase is where you might come in and help us in terms of the brand strategy, really understanding the target audience, competitor audit, you know, a bit of desk research, you know, insights and all that sort of stuff that comes up front when we're getting it really into a brand. We might do workshops or interviews, surveys. It really just depends on how best it extracts that information.
Speaker 1:We then will look at the strategy side of things, as we've mentioned. But then when we start developing, i guess, the brand identity, we always start with creative concepts and we might develop one to two, sometimes three, very rarely three, because we kind of ends up being a mix of, like one and two, but we always, will always have two completely different, you know, brand identities. And what was really helpful with your project in particular was actually having a bit of a mood board, you know, and a feel for what you like, and that helps kind of almost give a scale of how far to push it, whether it's quite feminine or masculine or vibrant and energetic, or you know like it really helps just narrow down the options and get to the cut to the chase quicker.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that was really helpful having that Pinterest board, and I recommend that for anyone starting a brand because so much out there, you don't know where to start, you don't know what you actually like, but at least if you start categorizing, things you start seeing patterns and what actually, yeah, like what makes you know a brand that you like.
Speaker 2:You know 100%, and I think most people you know, like, unless they work in the space, like they don't have an idea of you know what they actually would like their brand to look like Until they see it, until they see it. So that's why I think, a lot of the times we have this back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.
Speaker 2:But Pinterest is excellent actually for that for anyone you know, because you can literally type in keywords of you know your product or business, like what or industry, and just get a feel for what's out there, what you like, and just start collecting it And at least yeah that gives a direction And you know, when you then break the design agency like you can, you can give them a bit more direction for what you like.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Just like yeah, you know, we've all worked with those clients who say like oh you know what, like whatever you think is right, and then they end up having very particular Absolutely. And I think they're just on a hot, articulate.
Speaker 1:That's right, and I think that's the importance of what we do is that everything's backed by an idea and it's backed by a strategy, which then enables a brand to be less subjective. I think that's the beauty of what you know we do, and ensuring that we've got an idea and that you know when a brand is backed by strategy, it's tied together and there's no. You know, it removes the subjectivity because it basically is so robust. Yeah, that, yeah, you can't just say, well, i don't like that.
Speaker 2:But but it talks about strategy, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think that's the beauty. It's not. That's why it's not. We don't just design pretty pictures. It's, you know, strategy baked back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah I love that And that's, you know, super important. So, yeah, creative concepts Initially, we'll. We'll have some design development after that. So once we've presented our two to three to one to two, two to three concepts, you know the client will give us some feedback and we'll address that feedback.
Speaker 1:We've never really had a job where we've had to redo, like I think, a full concept, never, never. You know, i feel like, yeah, it's been, we've been very lucky And I think I say lucky, but it's obviously when we really understand a project and really understand a brand that you know there's never really been a need to redo or do another concept because they might not like the two they've presented. You know, i feel like there's always tweaks and sometimes people don't know which way to go because they've given them two options and they're like, oh, i don't know which one to choose. Actually, i like both of them. So sometimes there are some elements that get borrowed from one that you know, of the other to the next.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that often happens. But yeah, essentially created concepts, design development, And then we'll start the rollout. So that's that's where we kind of do more development and actual rollout, meaning key pieces are produced in full detail, whether it be brochure or website. You know Instagram, you know tiles, edm, design, so that that's where actually things are produced, are produced based on the new brand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly right, and then we'll artwork assets and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:When you say artwork, what does that actually mean?
Speaker 1:Artwork. So artwork, basically, you know, when you're creating a concept, it is just that it's a concept, so things are not exactly perfect, ok, so you know, you might need to tweak tracking, which means the spacing between letters of a font. You might want to craft some letters in a font to make it more unique, especially if it's a logo. So you know, or if you've drawn something by hand or in Illustrator and in software, you might need to draw it so it has a perfect curve.
Speaker 1:You know it's all the details, yeah cleaning up all the little, exactly Making sure everything like. Sometimes you might have a mix of outline like lines and solid shapes. So in the program you need to make sure that they are all just solid shapes And then artworking them for various formats and colors, so you might have a light background, a dark background, colored backgrounds and, depending on how many colors within the logo, and then you produce the file for different formats. So there might be P&Gs and we're, you know, jpegs, and I'm getting into a lot of detail here.
Speaker 2:But you know it's all the different formats. You need more like website versus social media And, you know, versus designers, you know who use illustrator files and you know what, like I mean everyone to their own, but I actually love illustrator files because you can do anything with them. you know, like not just once again, like you shouldn't really have to change anything on the logo as such, but I just like to sometimes, you know, yeah, quickly change the color or like whatever.
Speaker 1:And illustrator files for those who people who don't know, but they basically enable you to. They're called, they're vector files which don't have pixels, so you can blow them up to as big as you want. So they'll never lose quality.
Speaker 2:That's right. And once you actually convert them into JPEG or P&G, that's when they become pixels.
Speaker 1:Exactly That's when things get, you know, pixelated when you know in the right spot. Yeah, exactly So you know, and typically these days our screens are much bigger or they handle high resolutions, so we are saving things in high resolution and high pixel dimensions, especially even online, for that high quality, Yeah.
Speaker 2:But wow, what a like. It's. Looks like a lot, a lot of detail.
Speaker 1:There is a lot of detail And look, as a team, we have different specialties And that's why you know where the creators and the designers that you know develop those initial ideas And we have, you know, people who proofread and, you know, check all the other detail of things. But also then there's the artworkers, who actually are the the producers and the final outputters, if you like of assets and artwork Interesting.
Speaker 2:So that's a special job Yeah absolutely So.
Speaker 1:it's things go to print or things go to online and they make sure that you know those things are in a right, perfect, fine or file format, exactly right. And there are a whole bunch of new softwares and things to to use as well. Like you know, i've been playing around with Figma more and more lately. I did a course actually last week And that's a new piece of software online free that more and more people are using to design their websites and web based And user journeys.
Speaker 2:Like UX based design, this is quite popular for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and people are using mirror boards and things like that.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, we use it for one of my clients quite a bit. I'm a new kid, yeah.
Speaker 1:It seems like a fun kind of tool And it's all very, it's all very collaborative, totally Like you can command you like it's all live. Yeah, it's pretty fun. I did the courses. Yeah, I love that. Like why do?
Speaker 2:you give them feedback.
Speaker 1:Which is pretty cool, pretty cool. Scary for designers, however, at the same time. But um listing everything done, live, i can imagine.
Speaker 2:But, um, you know, surely you can track the history of edits. Hopefully, yeah, yeah, surely.
Speaker 1:But there's no hiding anymore. Like you know, back in the day you were used to working in an office and you used to hate when people walked past your screen so that you could see what you're designing And you're like looking at my, it's not finished, you know, and now, once you share the file, everybody can look at it.
Speaker 2:What?
Speaker 1:you're doing in real time, absolutely.
Speaker 2:You're right, and I guess, like if you think about the most iconic brands or the brands that you like the most, or that you reference for your clients. Which ones do you think you know have nailed their branding?
Speaker 1:I think there are a lot of brands out there that do a good job, and I think it's you know. Brands and businesses are seeing the importance of branding more and more. I, you know, i still love Airbnb, like I love that brand. Amazon have done a great job, you know. There's obviously Tesla Canva's done a great job with their own branding. They did, you know. So I feel like there are so many brands big brands and small ones too, like you know, there are so many small brands doing great job. I love gold to skin care.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, i just really like the colour palette And she's got a great tone and it reflects her personality in a way that she speaks and I particularly love the go-to brand as well.
Speaker 1:It's such a good brand.
Speaker 2:Like it's got all the Frank body as well. Like there are some really funky, sassy beauty brands.
Speaker 1:Cause people, and that's the thing like how do you stand out in a marketplace That's so crowded and so competitive? You know so you know, tone of voice is super important with that sort of thing And if you can have, if you can put a smile in somebody's mind when they're reading a packet.
Speaker 2:Especially when it's a face mask.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Like Zoe. if you're listening, we're more than happy to have you on the show. Come on join us, yeah. so look at some. it's yeah, really, and she's, you know, definitely a person that I aspire to. She's a working mom and she's been us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally Like. but there's like. yeah, i mean she's probably not a small, small brand anymore, but like, i think you know, when you can create something, that's a vibe more so than just a brand, Like an energy that people connect with.
Speaker 1:Definitely That.
Speaker 2:buy into, that's a whole whole different board game.
Speaker 1:It really is, and that's what Nike have done for so many years, even at us like if you think of those sporting brands and what they do and how they, you know, connecting community, really true. And then Nike have typically done that. Yeah, totally, that's very well. You know, even Airbnb, like you know, they all do that And that's, yeah, it's inspiring.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and when it comes specifically to business names that's what I've always been quite fascinated with.
Speaker 1:Because, yeah, because you know, like when I was coming up with my business.
Speaker 2:Like I struggled like at first to find it's really really tough, Yeah, So, and then you see some of, once again, the biggest brands in the world have sometimes most of the random names and you're like, how, why?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's true. I mean it's funny because when we think of names, i kind of think of them on a scale and categorize them. You know there are acronyms. You know people often have words that stand. You know letters that stand for things ABC. You know Australian Broadcasting Association. You know there's composite, which are two words that merge together to create one word like FedEx or Netflix Netflix that's right.
Speaker 1:You know they're two words combined That create a new word. You know, then you're going on the other opposite end of the scale, which are abstract words like Google, uber, uber kind of, because it kind of means something. But you know, uber, google, apple, like you know, fairly abstract, being where they kind of sounds as well, but that sort of. But they do have in common they're all pretty simple though, they are straightforward, and I think that probably came from the era where everything's taken as well. And how do we create something that nobody's ever heard of? and you know, almost like I mean, you know it's that word that becomes the category.
Speaker 1:You know that's what they do, that's what they Yeah, You know, you Google it you Uber you know, So, even when you take your taxi, you still Uber, yeah, you know like. Or when you take one of the other ones that are not Uber, like you're still Ubering, but yeah, like. I think that that's that side of. And then there are those just descriptive, you know, and there are those that just say it as is.
Speaker 2:What it is.
Speaker 1:I can't think of all the top of my head right now, but Oh, Cornflakes, You know they are what they are, you know, Yeah, so there's lots of different ways that you can categorize and come up with a name. But yeah, that's the fun process of developing a name. But then there's also the sort of more you know kind of logistical thing, Making sure that legally you can.
Speaker 2:Actually, you know that you check all the boxes of checking with a. You know there's a trademark on the name, whether the business name is actually available, absolutely in the business register. That's the process that. I have been going through over the last few days.
Speaker 1:That's right. It's tricky, and you know not only that.
Speaker 2:Because you know then, finally you've come up with a name you like and then you deal with the stress of like shit, is it actually available? Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Is there a?
Speaker 2:trademark. Can I actually register the domain or is the domain taken? Can I register on social media? Yeah, because social media is also.
Speaker 1:I feel like everything is taken, like everything you can ever think of is already taken, and that's why a lot of companies are misspelling their names as well. So you know, Fiverr, What is that going to do to our language skills in the future.
Speaker 1:It's true, people quickly learn, however, but you know like they are making up a lot more names. But you know there's those checks as well that we do that you know. we know that one word names are shorter and more immediate. You know how different is the name from the competitor space and the landscape. Does it even sit well in the market? You know comprehension and pronunciation. is the word easy to read? Is the word easy to say? you know plosives They're letters that have immediate sound and impact, like Buh, kuh, teh, peh, teh. So they're those Interesting. Yeah, they're called plosives, you know.
Speaker 1:and when we're designing, you know letter shapes can be visually appealing to As a springboard, for you know what the brand stands for. you know there's certain letters that are more beautiful than others and certain letters that sit nicer together, you know. So it's just visually. you know what looks good as a name. And then you know phonetics is it easy to hear? And then, finally, can you live with it? You know, do you like it And how long can you live with it? for You know, if you're going to say this name and you know It's probably the one thing you can do, like hello, this is Yeah, because you can.
Speaker 2:You know, i feel like brands, especially the established ones that have existed for so many years, like they go through brand iterations where they do you know, evolve their brand identity Over time. They might even change their logo or colours, But the name I don't think I've really heard of anybody really, Unless they change the whole business, you know.
Speaker 1:And it's very expensive, you know, And yeah, a lot of education and there are a lot of implications that go into changing a name, you know, And yeah, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, But you know An important decision. It is an important decision because you need to have the funds and the budget to back up. You know The reeducation of who you are and what you stand for, and you know there's got to be a good reason for changing a name. I guess as well.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, that's super interesting. And when you think of so, let's say, you've come up with the name and the concept and now you're picking the colors and the font and like, because I also think that there's like some theory as well that goes into that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like when you like.
Speaker 2:Usually you have two fonts like a hero font and then the pairing font and there's some rules about like what works together and what not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it really depends on the brand and what it says, and so choosing a font is very broad in terms of there's no real hard and fast rules And I often will pair fonts because they're shapes, if there's round shapes. So there's a couple of different types of fonts, i guess, and main ones that people know of are serif and sans serif, and serif are the ones with little feet, like Times New Roman, and sans serif are like your aerials, they're really round, very contemporary fonts, they're a whole bunch of others.
Speaker 2:Very good for digital like website and stuff.
Speaker 1:However, in saying that serif fonts, back in the day people would write novels with serif fonts because they're easier to read, But digitally they're not as easy to read.
Speaker 1:Interesting, You know but, and also Google have a whole range of fonts that are available to people for free use. Yeah, amazing to download, but there's so many options out there these days. But yeah, look, it just really depends what is right for the brand and what fonts pair. Well, i do try and have two fonts, and sometimes it might be like a headline font, like a really just really bold display face And then supported by a really nice clear, contemporary body copy font, and you might use that in a couple of different ways. You might use small caps, or you might use in bold subheadings and then in light for body copy. So it really just depends on how what you bring into the brand with fonts.
Speaker 2:One one pattern I noticed is that it seems like many brands are always pairing a serif with a non sense, and there's also like variations of the sans serif called slab serif, and they're a little bit more chunky.
Speaker 1:You know, thicker, what my hero font would be, yours is, yours is like more of a display face, I'd say Like, as it's quite cursive, it's quite unique, Yeah so, but then you know, yours is paired with Poppins, which is a really beautiful rounded, super clear Google font which we super versatile for, you know, for all of us, yeah, and it's just a nice because it's not too kitty, you know, it's not too whimsical, it's, it's really clear for all audiences as well.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's very versatile very versatile, yeah, so you'll notice that you'll. you'll probably use your your hero kind of logo font a little bit less Like just yeah, because you'll probably feel like the other has more legibility, maybe for major headings and stuff like that, and you know, yeah, i feel like that you'll use it more, but it's a beautiful font Regardless both of them are cool, but yeah, then we get into colors, and I guess color, meaning and sight can be really important, especially in various industries.
Speaker 1:You know there are meanings that are attached to color, but look, they can also be fairly subjective. Like some people just may not like orange, you know. So I'm talking about Kelly, who used to work with us. She just hated orange, you know there's some. I always just think of her when she would never come off with orange, color Orange. She's like why people orange in this palette? So yeah, look, meaning is important. It is subjective. Yeah right, absolutely. But you know, colors have the power to evoke emotions and convey different messages.
Speaker 2:And also being a point of difference to stand out in the category you know.
Speaker 1:Definitely. But yeah, they do play a significant part in shaping a brand's identity and influencing how it's perceived. You know it's worth noting that. You know when colors can invoke those sort of emotions. You know individual experiences and cultural backgrounds can influence how people interpret and respond to those colors as well, that is very true.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, red, for instance, and China has this like whole different meaning of prosperity and, like you know, chinese New Year.
Speaker 1:Like, i mean red give like many different examples of like how colors are interpreted differently, absolutely, and some are bad luck, and I think I think it is in the Chinese culture as well that black is actually not. Yeah, it's unlucky. OK. So yeah, look, and gold is, you know, a great color.
Speaker 2:Once again goes to show the importance of understanding. You know your market. Like who are you talking? to Because that will then determine, you know, if you're speaking to an international audience. I don't know. Chinese business owners like probably won't pick the same colors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very true. And then there's also the factor about accessibility and ensuring that there's enough contrast And, yeah, more and more, you know, we ensure that colors are legible on screen. Yeah, for, you know, the visually impaired, you know. So, yeah, there's lots, that's very true, and there's a lot of It's more inclusive. Yeah, absolutely Yeah. there are certain pieces of software online that you can actually check to make sure that it's compliant.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow. That's really like I'm so in awe of all the resources that we have these days, like I feel like I'm crazy. You know constantly, you know trying new technology every day and still. I'm mind blown about everything that's even like with the AI these days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is my life Very, but yeah, well, everyone's talking about that. Yeah, like it's just like it's a bit of a high buzz at the moment. Yeah, and scary at the same time. Yeah, Maybe jobs.
Speaker 2:Maybe we could get like an AI expert. That would be interesting Absolutely So to finish off this conversation. you know, for people like me who are just starting out with their business, like what are the quick wins or must have that we can do in terms of branding without breaking the bank.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a good question, You know, i do think that you don't have to go overboard. I think just having, firstly, just making a start and, secondly, using the tools that are available to us. You know, use Canva, use Squarespace, you know and you know, get professional help, like us. You know when you need it, but you know when, you know we hand over those elements. Just have a go at playing around with those. You know those soft pieces of software to create certain things that you might need quickly. You know tiles and things that you can create yourself, like everyone can be a designer, you know, and once you have that sort of you know foundation to start with, you know, obviously you're very you know savvy yourself. So but I do think that you don't have to go overboard. Just start with those key touch points and get those right first And then start to expand. Don't feel like you've got to have it all to start with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really good advice, because it can be quite overwhelming right.
Speaker 1:And do a couple of things. well, you know, i think that's amazing.
Speaker 2:And consistency, yeah, be consistent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, be consistent, That's very important. And follow some sort of guides And, you know, if you're unsure, ask the question. You know there's always people around to help.
Speaker 2:Even Facebook groups like this. He's like resources. Where find to find this on on on Facebook or other, like like minded bitches drinking wine I think it's a popular one, like where you can ask those questions and people there's always people willing to help. I found like that's actually quite encouraging.
Speaker 1:And I think, look at, i know it's business stuff, 101, but it is like you know initially. You know, defining your own vision, defining your, your mission and your values yourself will just help you really clarify and define what your offering is.
Speaker 2:And where you want to be 100 percent, because that also, like, helps you just make decisions when it comes to product development, like from the packaging you choose to the fabric, or like whatever that your product is or like. like you know, is, for instance, sustainability one of your core values you're going to make very different choices in terms of like the materials you pick and you might and supply it, yeah, and you might not be willing to compromise on price.
Speaker 2:Therefore, your product becomes premium, but you're meeting that sustainability stamp, right? So it all comes down to that, like, really like so Yeah. No, absolutely Gotta think of. yeah, be clear on that for sure. Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:It was so insightful, yeah, and it was really fun. I feel like I've had a lot of words and lots of experience over time, but there's so much to know And I mean I'm passionate about braiding and I love you know the feeling of especially, you know creating a brand that you can light up someone's day and life with.
Speaker 2:I seriously had goosebumps and almost like little tears in my eyes when you first read the manifesto Like I was like, oh my God, i come, you know. But it's also like when you have an idea and you tell someone else and you hope that they get your idea, but it's not. I feel like with my business as well, it's not that obvious, you know, it's a bit more conceptual. Yeah, that's right, it's not a tangible thing, that's right.
Speaker 2:So I was like I'm not sure. And then you know, just like hearing that you not only got it, but you were able to express it in this way Like yeah, it was just so amazing And it probably helped that.
Speaker 1:I know you as well clearly, so obviously it helped me get there quicker. But you know, yeah, like I was a really fun one to work on And you know I love you know the idea of it and Vanessa will share more soon. Yes, you know, i think. Yeah, it's got lots of legs and you know when a brand works, when you see the potential that it has.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's also part of your process. You would, you would feel like get a feel for?
Speaker 1:it right, you know, yeah, you know what works. And that happens because you know we during our process is during that creative concept stage is we test the brand. We stress test the brand on multiple touch points. Yeah, you know a website, an Instagram page, you know an EDM, a poster. you know a brochure or whatever it might be merchandise you know, to see what does that you know brand expression look like on other touch points.
Speaker 2:I can't wait for mine to come to live over the next few months. And, yeah, just happy to be sharing that with you all and taking, you, taking you on this journey.
Speaker 1:No, it's very exciting. Well, thank you so much for joining us today and listening to our branding 101.
Speaker 2:Maybe you know I'd inspire you to create your own. Yeah, I think I even, just like you know, for this podcast, for instance, we also created our little identity. We did, Well, you did, You did.
Speaker 1:And we both love the color coral.
Speaker 2:So I had to go and I thought the green was such a nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I do love pink and green or a coral and green. Yeah, anyway, so it did help that you, you know, obviously you bring all that knowledge, which is great, like you don't have to launch a business to create like some sort of you know brand identity or like look and feel You can, can even be a personal project or whatever, and people are working on their own personal brands these days, totally. It's becoming more and more. I think a thing Totally.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you everybody. Thank you, We'll see you next time. It was very. Yeah.
