Motherhood Relabelled
Motherhood Relabelled
3. Embracing the Power of Conscious Motherhood with Sarah Cremona from The Mumma Nest ✨
Imagine embarking on a transformative journey of self-discovery, one where motherhood is the compass guiding your path. We did just that with the inspiring Sarah Cremona from The Mumma Nest, a conscious motherhood mentor, who shares her incredible story of self-realisation and growth, driven by her own experiences as a mother of three. Sarah’s story, a testament to the power of surrender, encourages us to shed preconceived notions of parenthood, and seek alternate modalities that resonate with our true selves.
As Sarah unpacks the complexities of juggling motherhood with other aspects of life, she emphasises the importance of effective communication, seeking help when needed, and acquiring practical skills that make the journey of motherhood smoother. She invites us to embrace the concept of community support and 'building a village', enlightening us about the benefits of group therapy. She further shares her personal strategies to tackle 'mum guilt', encouraging us to ask ourselves the right questions, and take charge of our lives.
Towards the end, our conversation navigates through the realms of self-care, balance, and the elusive pursuit of 'having it all'. We also touch on the art of gentle parenting, discussing the importance of setting boundaries, and allowing children to experience their emotions. The episode wraps with Sarah's take on being aware of our 'masks', and the need to be curious about who we truly are. Join us for this enriching conversation as we explore the joys and trials of conscious motherhood.
You can find more about Sarah here:
- Her Book Women Leading the Way
- The Mumma Nest Website here
- The Mumma Nest Instagram here
Follow us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok.
Motherhood Relabelled is a non-parenting podcast for all parents who don’t let the “parenthood label” hold them back. It’s for those who think that parenthood is a part of us, but not the only thing that defines us. Travelling with kids? Sure! Starting a business with kids? Absolutely! Feeling the fittest and strongest you’ve ever felt with kids? Most certainly! This podcast is your weekly dose of making yourself and your own goals a priority.
Hi Tanya, hey Vanessa, how are you so good to see you.
Speaker 2:Very good to see you. I mean, I prefer to see you face to face, but the reason we're doing a remote recording today is because we're having Sarah from the Mamanness join us as a speaker. Yes, very exciting.
Speaker 1:Mumpreneur.
Speaker 2:Mumpreneur. Author. I guess Mumcourt is the best word to describe her. That's also what her Instagram says yeah, so it's super exciting Like hopefully we can learn a lot from her about I think she she really coaches women through the ups and downs of motherhood. As we all know, it's a juggle and I think she really she loves. She's passionate about working with women and helping women embrace that motherhood journey and the challenges that come with it.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, super excited to learn from her. Yeah, absolutely, we're all in that same sort of boat, trying to do our best in this whole world. How are we? We are, we are, and so here she is and we'll just jump right in with Sarah. Hey, sarah, nice to see you. What a gorgeous background. Oh, thank you, so nice to meet you, bo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you too Nice to meet you. We just we already started recording a little intro and, like introducing you and yeah, so excited to be talking to you. I feel like you are, you have the gods and we need. Yeah, you embody everything.
Speaker 1:You embody everything that we're all about and what we aspire to do. So you know there's so many things that we can all learn from you and you know just by hearing. You know your things that you talk about and you know it's. It's really great and we can really start implementing a lot of that stuff. But, yeah, it's very cool to have you here today.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much. It's so lovely to be here, and that is like a lot of pressure.
Speaker 1:No, no pressure. This is nothing compared to the stuff that you've you've had to face and being on stage and you know all your, all your talks, and in front of millions of people. So it's just much more relaxed and laid back, especially in your own home.
Speaker 3:Yeah well, we finally got here anyway, Didn't we?
Speaker 2:Yes, I know that there was Europe in between. There's, like you know, sick, sick toddlers, as we know. They throw your whole plans anyway. So I'm glad we made it and maybe we start off by you introducing yourself and just so our listeners get a bit of an idea of, like, who you are, what you do with your family background is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure, hi everyone, and thank you so much for having me, ladies. So my name is Sarah Cremona and I am a conscious motherhood mentor, so I'm an author, a global award winner and a mum of three.
Speaker 2:So a superhero, essentially.
Speaker 1:In a nutshell OK.
Speaker 3:It's. Yeah, it's been such a journey to get here, but I just feel so passionate about the balance and the conscious parenting that everything is now just really coming together, and so I'm really just glad to be here to have this conversation.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you Wonderful, and what inspired you to to go down that path?
Speaker 3:Yes, so there's a bit of a story here. So, as you know, being moms it tends to shake up a lot in our lives, and becoming a mum of two was really so. There's two, two pivotal moments. So becoming a mum of two, where I completely lost my sense of self, my identity, who I thought I was, was completely shaken and it really got me questioning Well, if I thought I was this and I'm not this, then who the hell am I?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know I can relate to that. That happened to me after after one child. So yeah, it's a lot sooner than I did.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. And I just really found that, you know, really in reflection, looking back now, I was really being a victim and I was really defining myself by this way of what I thought motherhood should be, hmm, and all of these stories I'd created, that I'm a good mum if I do this and good mums won't do this and they shouldn't do this, and there's so many shoulds. But, as we know now, like the shoulds are our identity, you know our ego trying to keep our identity in this way. It's always known. So that was probably the first pivotal moment that I found myself really anxious, really in this place of victim mode, blaming, and really distant from my husband and really creating a lot of you know, I was really pulling back, really avoiding, excuse me, you know, at that time.
Speaker 3:And then becoming a mum of three I experienced the birth is quite traumatic and for me that was the pivotal moment that shifted everything, because in that moment I was forced to surrender and let go of anything that I had ever, that I ever knew, and it was really in those moments of surrender and healing that I started to learn about who I actually am. And then that is what led me into the life coaching space, the mentoring, the conscious parenting, becoming an author. So I started to really tap into alternate modalities and bring them all together and really start feeling aligned in myself, taking responsibility for myself, and I just realized what was possible. Like it's just been, this incredible journey of becoming I guess you could say- yeah, that's wonderful.
Speaker 1:Really inspiring, absolutely. It's just like a switch. You know you kind of just get into this like mode and you're like hang on a second. This is not how I should be doing this, like you know this is. You know we've got one shot at this life and you know it is not how I want to feel. It's not on one B, so I guess that's. I guess we can all relate to that for sure.
Speaker 2:100 percent, and I think that's also the reason why we this, this podcast, was born. I guess I think we both also, like Tanya and I, felt lost at times throughout this motherhood journey and I think for me I had like, in hindsight, I think I did have some sort of postnatal depression and anxiety for at least the first 10 months, and then all of a sudden it hit me like similar to what you described as well, where I just realized hold on, I don't have to do this this way, it doesn't have to be this hard, I can still prioritize my own needs and it doesn't make me a bad mother. But it took me a while, because I feel like I grew up with a mom who sacrificed herself for the family and that was the standard I was used to and anything less would not be good and acceptable.
Speaker 3:But I very quickly learned that I was just so miserable and that I couldn't be a good mom this way, yes, and very common, very common as well, because that that's determining the stories that we hold for ourselves and how we experience motherhood as well, a lot of the time, unless we get curious and challenge those stories which we don't realize we can do. But I think we're getting better at it.
Speaker 2:Yes, we have more knowledge and, like you know, thanks to social media as well, people have access to profiles like yours.
Speaker 1:you know where they can learn every day and just get that positive vibe, the positive energy and it is true because you do often you don't feel alone when you do find you know people like yourself, and obviously Vanessa and I have become really good friends and we've always been good friends. But you know, I guess the motherhood journey has bonded us even more so because there's so much to share and you know talk about each other with all the things that we face and you know, often you know I talk about Vanessa, about being mean to my partner and it's.
Speaker 1:you know, there's always that resentment that you have and you can't shake it because you're like but why do I feel like this? And you always are mean to the people who you're closest to and I feel like my mum gets a bit of that and my partner gets a bit of that. And you know, I think it's when you realize that actually doing the things that you like to do make you a better person. Like for me, it's fitness and working out makes me feel really good because it, you know, affects many, many touch points of my life, I guess.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I guess it seems to be like one of those really key indicators when things are out of alignment for ourselves. And so it's a very common theme in the mums that come into my space and I've been there too, because back at you know, becoming a mum of two, I just held so much resentment. But when you think about resentment, you know what is this perceived unfairness that I am trying to work out? You know like what is it that I'm perceiving as being unfair? It's a real key to this. Work is becoming really curious and before we react, it's like OK, pause, create separation and respond versus something happens and I react to it straight away. I think that that's one of the really big keys that you know we can all start to practice. That will greatly support us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, I think you're making a very important point, I think developing an awareness so we can catch it early, before it escalates. I think a lot of my frustration was as well driven by resentment in the first year, because I feel like we mothers are just needed in a very different way than the dads are needed, and it's biological, it's normal. But it's still also OK to sometimes feel like, wow, I'm completely overwhelmed with this responsibility and, yeah, I think knowing it, being aware of it and, yeah, accepting help?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and I guess it does come down to the you know the communication between you and whoever else that you're communicating with and it's being clear on you know expectations and how they can help you, because a lot of the time, as a mum, like you know, I'm sure you're the same, like you feel like you can do everything but you can't, and that lays all on your shoulders and it is heavy work doing everything but you don't have to do everything, and I think that's something that I'm trying to realise and especially as a business owner.
Speaker 2:You know that's, that's another, I guess, part of us, each of us, like we're all business owners. So it's hard to juggle it all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And so, sarah, with your business, your business is called the Muminist. What do you want to achieve from this? And obviously you know speaking to as many women as possible and trying to change their perception and world, but essentially, what's your vision for it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, beautiful question, beautiful question I have got, so so many ideas I can imagine.
Speaker 3:So much Like in here sometimes is just like you know, there's a lot going on there, but the main things that I always come back to is community, relatability, authenticity and growth. So for me, I believe it comes down to three pillars so coaching, community and consistency. And when we live by this, you know, if you think about it, without consistency there's no change, and so it's like you can have an intention. That's one thing, but then doing and being consistent is a whole other thing, and so you need to have both of those elements to create change for yourself. So what I would really want to do is really bridge the gap between becoming a mom and that clinical, that care, like you know, a form of diagnosis.
Speaker 3:So what I mean by this is to provide women with more access to practical skills to support themselves in more of a preventative way. So yeah, really, that's kind of what it is. You know, like I know there's no manual when we come into motherhood, but I honestly believe with practical skills, women can realize that it doesn't have to be as hard as we make it. You know, it's like what is? What's the practical skills that I can utilize on a daily basis to support myself and my family to make sure that the journey ahead is. You know how we want it to be. That is healthy. I love that.
Speaker 2:Which means you can basically support women, I guess, before becoming a mom. It's not something we're probably aware of. So I feel like it's more talking to moms who are maybe like on their journey to be to having a second or third child, because once you've done it, you know and you also know that nothing in the world can truly prepare you for it. So the more you can do, Absolutely the better off, Like I'm. Yeah, I'm even thinking long into the future as well, as like what would I do differently this time around? And one of the things I'm thinking of is, you know, finding the right support system to help me set myself up for success. I was even considering thinking of maybe working with a doula next time, like especially because I feel like that's all something I didn't consider necessary the first time around. I was like I can do this, Like you know, like million, million stuff.
Speaker 3:Women have done this, that's all good, yeah, and that's a really beautiful point too, because I've actually been I've been doing a little bit of birth trauma advocacy and one of the elements that we speak about in that space is the difference in the support of mothers that they receive. That can be a preventative measure for birth trauma as well. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So two women going through the same experience can have a completely different outcome based on the level of care that they've received. So if they have a safe person there with them that they trust, they feel supported and heard and validated, acknowledged, experienced versus going into the same experience and feeling alone and, you know, unsupported and you know, not knowing that you have a safe person and knowing that you have a voice, you know just completely different experience and really achieving different outcomes. So, yeah, I really love that you've shared that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and especially Vanessa. You know Vanessa doesn't have a lot of family close by, so that's something that's. You know, it's just another person that would be your cheerleader.
Speaker 2:you know, totally, I'm building my village because I don't have my family village. So you know like even things like daycare is a massive support which I was very skeptical about at first. But now that we've done this we've, you know, successfully like sent to today care. He's loving it I feel like a second time around I would feel much more comfortable with doing that. You know there's a lot of and slowly building my village, yeah absolutely and this podcast is a piece of that.
Speaker 2:To be honest, like and speaking to amazing and inspiring people like yourself, sarah, because I consider that as being part of my village, absolutely, and I think, sarah, you do also.
Speaker 1:You know group therapy stuff as well, right, and I think that that's, so you know, important for women to you know, find their people, find their tribe, and just you know. So, again, you're not feeling alone in your journey and, as you said, everybody's journey is different. So I feel like more group therapy, you know, is the way things should go, and of course, cost comes into it for many people as well. So having group sessions seems like a sensible and more economical way to go for many women. Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. So, typically, what does a day in the life of Sarah look like?
Speaker 2:And how do you manage it all?
Speaker 3:Tell us, I love that there's a typical in there, because I'm going to be completely honest.
Speaker 3:They're actually no typical like yeah, so, as a mama, three and business owner, there is no typical. To be honest, I've really had to work on, like we've already said, is really surrendering to what is being compassionate, and I think the main thing is being really flexible with whatever the day throws our way. And you know, like I know, we've had to reschedule this podcast a couple of times because of sick kids and other things that have come up, and it's really just, I think, being present to the stages that we're in and knowing that they're stages, but for me it was really. This business is about providing, like being a service, but also allowing me the flexibility to be there for my kids, drop off and pick up. Yeah, a lifestyle, yeah, it's the lifestyle, the freedom, the flexibility. And you know at the moment, like we're going through so much odd love at the moment he is having a really challenging time and on the way to school he wants to go this way.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 3:I want to go that way and if he doesn't, it's like this big outtown deal and that's okay, but it's kind of like it's. This business has given me the flexibility to spend the extra time, to be okay with not Having to race and be doing things for other people. It's just been a really. It's been a big experience, but it's also being quite validating and beautiful.
Speaker 1:I can totally relate to that because every day, as you say, is a new adventure and you know we don't know.
Speaker 1:You know what developmental leaps they're also going through and you know one day we'll have that straight path to daycare and other days, you know there'll be a stop off. You know down the road or up the road to see the chickens, or, and, and I think for me as well, having my own business has given me that freedom to go. I know that they're after me, but you know what's 10 minutes is not going to make much difference, you know it just enables me to be become. But I guess when on the flip side of that is when you do have a deadline and you know that you've got to be somewhere, you know it does build up that sort of angst in you and you do start feeling more stress because you know, you know you need to be somewhere. They're not playing your game and and I guess that's when I love the sort of stuff that you talk about the gentle parenting and just pause. You know getting down on their level and you know just being okay with when things don't go to plan and just speaking calmly.
Speaker 2:That is a big big challenge for me because I'm personally an absolute control freak. I'm also German and my DNA I plan, I love structure, I love routine, I love print, the predictable, and motherhood has taught me that yeah, the unpredictable, basically. And I love what you say about surrender, because before tail was born I told myself the first six months is just going to be about him and that's okay. So I feel like I prepared myself for surrendering, but I didn't actually surrender, like when he was born, all I could think of what have I done? This is my life now. I have no life, I don't exist and I couldn't see the end of it. I was like in my head I was actually like this is my life forever now. But obviously you learn very quickly that everything is a stage and phase and you move from one to the next and each of those phases has its own challenges. And I think it's once you start really seeing it that way you can surrender better, because even in the hard moments you know it's not going to last.
Speaker 3:And you you're therefore going to enjoy the better moments more, yeah yeah, definitely, and utilizing and this is the thing with you know equipping women with the right language. Not the right language, but supportive language of what they're going through. So something as simple as acknowledging this to is just a phase.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this to shall pass, yeah.
Speaker 3:It's like this today may not be like this tomorrow, and then it's gone and you don't even back again. So it's like, how do I lean into this? Knowing that is a phase, and I brought myself through this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I guess, does mum guilt? Do you still, you know, feel mum guilt or not? Not really as much anymore, because you can. I feel like you've got it down pat, like your whole you know parenting and conscious parenting. I feel like, yeah, I just would love to know, do you still feel it?
Speaker 3:Yes, so I really. So I've been toying with this idea for such a long time, been playing around with this, the language that we use because I feel like there is this whole expectation and pressure on mum guilt. Hmm, but when I look at it, I like to take it down a notch and say, ok, well, let's just acknowledge that mum guilt is actually guilt.
Speaker 2:And it is a mum guilt? Yeah, it's a hateful guilt, mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:But I think that we add the extra layer of mum guilt and then we feel worse.
Speaker 1:Mm, it's true. So I don't know.
Speaker 3:I've just kind of been playing with this.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think it's like, well, with any feeling, we start by acknowledging hey, like it is okay that I feel guilty, mm-hmm, yeah. But the best thing we do with emotions is acknowledge it, because we want to always turn towards it instead of away from it, because when we're pushing it away, technically what we're doing is suppressing Mm-hmm. So it's definitely I have had my fair share of mum guilt. But I think it's like acknowledging, getting curious every time that it arises. So, for example, like what is at the core of this, like what is actually beneath this mum guilt? Mm-hmm, what specifically do I feel guilty about? And so this comes down to like getting you know, asking ourselves better questions, and it's like did I really do something wrong or am I just perceiving I did something wrong? Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:And a lot of the time this work comes back to we're giving our power away. You know, it's like what is the meaning that's beneath this is? You know, something like if my toddler's at daycare past five o'clock, oh my gosh, like I'm such a bad mum. Yeah, you know, like, if I leave my child at school past five o'clock, what are they going to think of me? Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:I totally have that exact guilt about that. It's a funny feeling, isn't it? And that's one thing I definitely can resonate with. For sure, Like, but why, Like? You know they're happily playing there. They don't know any different, you know.
Speaker 2:You know what I think comes down to for me, because I then, in my head go, my whole to-do list is a list of priorities that I constantly move around based on. You know, the priorities shift, as we know, every single day and I feel like every time I choose a different priority to my child, I feel guilty about it and then I have to remind myself but hold on, why am I choosing a different priority right now? And you know, sometimes if it's my own mental health, then that might be well worth it in that case. So I'm just trying to post-racialize, like, why am I prioritizing things in a certain way?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love that, I love that. So let's go a little bit deeper, then, and I'll give you an example, because last week, again, with daycare drop off so it was last week and I did film on guilt, I'm not going to lie. So I dropped him off at daycare and I was reversing out of the driveway and I just had this huge rush come over me and I was feeling really sad and then I felt guilty that I'd left him there. And when I got really curious and I was like what is actually beneath this, Like what is going on here, and I was like I just miss my baby Interesting, and you know, it wasn't like I'm not feeling guilty, but I was actually like I just miss my baby and I actually had to question and I was like okay, so do I want to drop him down a day from daycare?
Speaker 3:And I sat with that and the response was no, I don't want to drop him down a daycare. I'm really happy with the balance that I've created. So the response was no, and so what I'm trying to say is it's okay to feel something, but know that feeling something can also coexist with something else. Yeah, so I can miss him, but I'm happy with the balance. And then you know, maybe I think I said I said to myself I'm going to give him a day off tomorrow, I'll move things around and we'll just have a day together. And then I did that and by lunchtime the next day I was like okay, I'm not doing that again. This is hard.
Speaker 2:I really love that, I love what you said about balance, because I feel like it's so. I think it's something we all strive for and it's really hard to achieve on a daily basis. But I feel like when we choose different priorities based on our needs and our family needs, that's when we achieve balance. And I think you are making a really important point. Like, just because I've just decided the opposite, I'm not sending two or two day care five days away from like we started with three, then four, then five. He also really lost it. That makes that decision easier.
Speaker 2:But I feel like in my head there was a lot of negotiation going and part of me felt guilty that he now spends more time there than he does with us. But then I'm also thinking well, but the time that we do now have we spend much more consciously together. We're making other priority shifts. For instance, now I'm hiring a cleaner who will do our weekly clean that we usually do on a weekend, because I'm not willing to compromise on that time that we have together as a family. So, like we're constantly shifting priorities around and it allows me to have that balance, to work on my business, to still be me. He's having a good time. We are spending more conscious moments together. I do miss him more as well, and I feel like just because I decided to send him to daycare five days week doesn't mean I don't miss him.
Speaker 3:That's right. But also and also, you know a stretch of this as well, but you also know that if you want to keep him home one day, you can do that too. Like it's not like, just because I send him to daycare five days a week doesn't mean he has to stay there five days a week, 100% agree. Yeah, it all comes back to like language and how we give ourselves his power back for ourselves, right?
Speaker 3:And so it's like it comes back to, I think, the point being acknowledge that it's normal to feel guilt, okay, but feel it without the drama and the story around, the meaning that we're giving it. That's right. You know, is it true that I'm a bad month for sending him five days a week, or am I just having a bad day where I miss him?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's always that juggle. That's absolutely and the realization, and it's also what you can, what you feel. You can feel what you feel comfortable with Right and yeah, I think there's always going to be waves of it, isn't there, like, and it's just how you deal with it on that day and you know, hormones plays a big deal and how you're feeling that particular day as well. So, it's just not being so hard on yourself. That sort of sort of comes down to as well.
Speaker 1:And also honoring, like your cycle of where you are during the month as well plays a huge part yeah absolutely, I think, acknowledging yeah it's clever, Like it's, it is true, Like I often will pick myself up about you know, I sort of just go.
Speaker 1:Oh, you know, I've just felt really grumpy like and I must be towards, you know, close to having my period, because I just, you know, I know that I get like this and I think it's good when I can acknowledge that, because then I then know how to react to certain things and I know that I can be more sensitive to certain things and I can crave in, for example, and just feel like I'm on the verge of like a tear or something I'm like okay, I know why this is happening, like I'm not normally this sensitive about this, but yeah, it's just acknowledging and surrendering, absolutely yeah, and again, like before awareness, we have on ourselves our energies and start playing around with that.
Speaker 3:It makes all the difference. So true that is so true.
Speaker 2:So what do you do to prioritize yourself and your own needs in that juggle that is three kids and a business and a marriage?
Speaker 3:So, as I mentioned, like I had, I have had a really hard time in the past prioritizing myself, but I think that this business has actually learning all the coaching side of things and working with so many women and, like I've had to model and trial these different things out for myself, and so in the past I've had a real achiever identity and I didn't realize it. But I think that once we have more awareness of these masks that we wear, for example, that we you know the way that we like people to see us, once we get curious with who we are, I think it provides us with a lot more certainty, especially in motherhood when there is so much uncertainty. And so for me it's definitely, you know. So recently I have had some bigger opportunities arise and that I had committed to, because they are forming part of where I'm going in, you know, on this business journey.
Speaker 3:However, over the last couple of weeks I've really noticed in myself that I've been a little bit shaky, I've been a little bit anxious. There's been a lot of anticipation leading into the trainings and different things, and I've known that something has been really off and I'm like, okay, yesterday it came to the point and I was like something has to give because I'm out of alignment, things are not feeling good, I'm coming and going and jumping from so many different things and the kids are like, mummy, are you working again tonight. And I was just like you know. Again I was like, okay, sarah, what's important here? Family connection, presence, my energy. And so I had to make a decision to let go of something which was really hard to do. But once I made that call and let it go, the relief was knowing that I get an extra night a week, an extra weekend a month, an extra, whatever else it is.
Speaker 3:It's like this constant. How do I prioritize myself in these moments? By realizing that what's out of alignment, like what's going on for me right now, like always coming back to noticing what's happening in my body and what needs to shift and being okay with, like in the past, I would have let something like that be, this whole ordeal of I need to ask people's opinion, whereas it was like, okay, who's the decision maker in this family? It's me and my husband. No one else gets to say. It's like taking back. This is a decision between us and we're okay with it. And I think that it comes back to like the communication, honoring ourselves and putting ourselves as a priority. So that's kind of what you know, what I perceive it as yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:I do that too, actually, and a big part of my healing journey was to really identify my core values and, you know, as you were saying, like family energy, like you know all those like key keywords, essentially like they're different for everyone. But it really does help me to protect myself Because now, every time I have an opportunity or decision to make, or little things as well, on a daily basis, I just evaluate everything against those values and if something is not in line with those, like I know, I know how to say no. Now.
Speaker 1:And I guess, as a high achiever, you know it's a really fine line and balance because you want to do it all and I get that because you know and Vanessa's you know she's talked about this in the past of you know having various business coaches and you know property coaches and all these things and she's very good at juggling and multitasking on time. But sometimes you know, I know that I'm good at it, but I also feel that I can't stretch myself and be good at it all Because something's got to give. I'm always just going to be half you know, half asked at some of that. You know, all of it, you know. So I feel like it is about the prioritising and, as you've had to make the decision, it's maybe it's not for now, but once I get through this phase, then I can pick that up again. Hopefully the opportunity will still be there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. So it's like looking at that big picture. Yes, it gets me to where I want to go, but does it matter if it's two years down the track?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, it's still part of your journey and it will get there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I always having a look at like what, for what purpose am I doing? This, I think, is a really great question.
Speaker 2:That's a really good question. I love the word purpose because I feel like it's a lot of what we do in marketing anyway as well. The question of purpose. But I think talking about juggle and doing it all like you working with all these amazing women and you're on journey, like do you really believe or think that we can do and have it?
Speaker 1:all.
Speaker 3:Do? I believe that we can have it all. I think it depends on how you define have it all, because when we talk about having it all, it is such a different outcome for us all and I think when we gain that clarity to define what that means for us, it removes the external pressure and the external voice, the noise, and again brings it back to what does having it all mean to me? What does it look like? What does it feel like in my body? What am I doing when I have it all? This is what I'm doing now, like really just playing around with these deeper questions that we just don't ask ourselves.
Speaker 2:It's true, the external pressures is a big one, because I realize as well, and I'm still a victim to it. I think all of us it's like what society tells us we should be doing versus like, for instance, we are renting, and I know that in Australia, home ownership is very big and Europe is slightly different, the mentality over there. But I had to just also reframe my mindset on that. I think, well, I live in the perfect place for me, like that's all I want, that's all I care about. Yes, I'm paying a lot of rent, but that's okay for me, because I don't have to own my you know four bedroom house just yet. Like, that took a lot of pressure off my shoulders just reframing. You know it's just one example, but yeah it's true.
Speaker 1:And what is it all like? You know, like what's what's you know? It all for every book for one person is different to another person. So I think it's just again being mindful of, yeah, not putting so much pressure on yourself and comparing I guess it comes back to that is being okay with your position, what your goals are, and those will look different to somebody else's. That's right.
Speaker 3:So yeah, number one, gaining that clarity. And I also like, when I think of having it all like I do, I look at it like this so like, picture a triangle on one corner there's me, on the other corner there's my husband, and then on the third corner, like the point, it's kind of like our ultimate outcome. So it's like when we think about you do you, I do me, and we come together on this journey of that outcome for ourselves. So that's kind of like how I picture it and piece it all together. Yeah, for more balance, more consistency. How are we going like moving towards having it all?
Speaker 1:Dave is like having it all, and I think you've symbolized that in a triangle, because that's like the strongest shape as well. So you know, yeah, there's a lot of meaning behind the triangle, and that's only because I'm in design that I know this. But the symbol I think it's delta, but yeah, just is one of the strongest symbols and that's great because you can sort of talk about that as a family. You know, triangle is that. It is the, you know, the most strong.
Speaker 2:The magic triangle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the magic triangle and the strength that you have when each part comes together to create this pinnacle as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's massive. I actually didn't, even, I didn't know that. Really pieces it all together. Yeah, it's even better.
Speaker 1:It's even better than the circles, because I know that you do that sort of diagram where it's like you, me and us in the middle, yeah, which I think is always really important, and I try and live by that as well. Of course, the us is always the thing that I feel gets neglected, because you know, you're always in the first year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in terms of yeah, well, that's in terms of you as a couple, anyway, as a family. You know, it's sometimes a bit easier to do things all together, but actually prioritizing the couple in the relationship is the thing that's the first to sort of suffer in some ways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that is true and I feel like, as we are, as we as a person, I think we have those different identities, like the identity is up, like our own individual, then our identity as a mother, identity as a partner, as a friend, as a business owner. Like it's really complex to navigate all those identities, I think, and for me, having it all essentially is being in alignment with all those identities, you know, and finding a balance so I can feel like I'm not letting my partner down and not letting my child down and not letting myself down and not letting my business down.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and also knowing that, you know, when we talk about like letting, letting ourselves down, it's like, hey, it's okay to acknowledge that right now I'm not where I want to be, and that's okay, exactly, and just recognizing like what, like well, where do I want to be and what would it take to get there? Just so curious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's true. Like anything with goals, like you know, you can have goals, but if you don't put action points to them on how you're going to get there, you'll never get there. And I think I'm just starting to learn that myself really is putting some action points to go Okay, well what?
Speaker 1:you know, because I always think it is hard to think where you want to be in three years, five years, 10 years time. Like it is hard. I can't even think what I want to, you know, do next week. But you know I think yeah, having those action points and that just helps clarify that journey and make it more of a straighter path.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're so right. And do you know, like an extra layer and I hope this really resonates because it's really supported me is why do I want that thing? I agree, the why is your purpose, like you are your purpose, and if you have a strong enough why behind where you're going, that strong enough why is going to get you through any how? Yeah, you're always come back and draw upon the why and then it will keep moving you forward and like just one step, like I just say, what's that 1% per day, if that, but it just makes it seem achievable and if you might move with those small acknowledging those small steps, it's like that is the journey. The journey is not getting there, yeah, because when you get there, then you're like what's next? Yeah, and you enjoy that moment of creating that. The why, the journey, that is what that is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. That takes off the pressure, like I often like I live by certain phrases and one of my like favorite phrases is, like, trust the process and don't be attached to the outcome. You know, and I really try and live by that, because that's exactly what you just described, because I actually sat down with my partner earlier in the year to discuss our why and our purpose and because I really believe you need to be aligned as a family with that. And you know, I think that's also why maybe some relationships don't succeed, because I feel like, when, when people fundamentally are not aligned on the goal, the purpose, the why, then it's very hard to put any. That's the triangle exactly.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, we put together like a six months, 12 months, three or five year kind of plan based on that and we are making some really difficult choices and decisions and, yeah, but what helps me every time is I look at the why, you know what's the goal and, as you described, like that's that's exactly what keeps me going and what makes everything worthwhile. Yeah, it's beautiful, yeah, and for us that's like a freedom, like it always comes back to freedom. Like me and my partner, we realized that that's our number one desire in life is freedom and yeah, I feel like with small children, I think that's also what partly shocked me to my core, because I felt like my freedom was under such threat and because it's my number one desire, I think it really completely pulled me out of alignment and then I had to adjust to what freedom means at that stage of my life versus what it can mean in maybe five, 10 years times once the child's a little bit older. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:It really is a constant game of recalibration, like test and measure. Everything is test and measure. It's like okay, if it doesn't work, that's okay, but what may work? It's just recalibrating.
Speaker 2:I love that. Calibrating that's a great word to describe that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And I guess you are all about gentle parenting and I'd love to know if you've always been that gentle parent or if you just. I'm sure you've lost your shit sometimes but then you're like, hang on a minute, I'm good at this. I'd love to know.
Speaker 3:What do you mean? Lost my shit. Like I'm a parent all the time? No, no, no, no, I know gosh. No. When I hear like the gentle parenting, so I'm actually like a conscious motherhood coach, which is more about like the awareness and the being and the supporting ourselves as mothers so that we can support our children in a healthy way. So when I hear like gentle parenting, I'm like okay, I'm a parent and I'm doing my best, right? So is it possible to be a gentle parent all of the time? No, we're digging ourselves a grave by expecting to be. Quite possibly. And again, I think for me it comes back to we are multifaceted human beings and we have a range of emotions and feelings for a purpose. So when I think of gentle parenting, what I also think of is does this mean that we're not allowing ourselves to feel like what are we actually denying ourselves by trying to be a certain way, I don't know, like this is just me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, I love that and part of me also thinks that. Where's the line between you know, we also need to have some authority, like as a parent. That's our job. Our job is not to be the nice friend, all that's like. Our job is also to put boundaries, set limits and guide them, you know, and that also sometimes means doing the hard thing, not the nice things, like we can. It's just I find it hard to sometimes, you know, navigate between you know, especially with toddlers, I think there's a lot of talk around letting them feel their emotions and supporting them through it. I think it's important, but it's also I think it's also important to be aware that it's okay for us to be frustrated, you know, like when they're constantly crying and tantruming, and you know that's hard.
Speaker 1:I feel like there's a constant battle in my head when there's a situation where I just feel so frustrated. But then I like I'm quickly thinking in my mind how to react to this. You know, like do I get down and, you know, actually teach him a lesson about this and just speak calmly and look, we can't do this now, but we can do this later. Like I'm just you know, I always have to stop myself to go, no, we can't do this now, to just okay, maybe we can do this later, but right now we have to do this. So I guess it's just like this constant battle in my own mind of how to react to this situation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's a really great example, because it's like, okay, do I react or do I just choose to be and respond.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sorry, I mean, it's just so easy to lose your crap and just you know, scream.
Speaker 3:And this is the thing to absolutely it is. And you know what, like, I'm there as well.
Speaker 3:Like we are human. We all do it, and if we say that we don't, that's what I mean, like we're denying that we're human. We're having an experience of life, like we're constantly learning about ourselves and when we do something that didn't feel right, we'll think well, there's an opportunity to explore and maybe choose a different way of being next time. That's right. We're constantly aiming for the best in what we're doing and, if anything, it's being present to them. Hey, but like I'm right here. I'm right here because they can't comprehend anything, in a way, their brains offline.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's really about what's going on. I laugh because it's so true and there are some times when you know Toby's kind of done something and I've lost my crap and later on I have the guilt and I'm like I feel so bad I shouldn't react to like that, and I'll go up to him and say, look, mama, sorry, she didn't mean to raise her voice. You know, maybe next time, you know, blah, blah, blah. Like I try, and you know, and he's listening to me and he understands that I did raise my voice, so I he's that. You know that two and a half where he's starting to. You know, I just watch him like look at my reactions to things, and so that makes me feel, you know, I don't know that I just I do just need to be better, because he's looking at the way I'm reacting to something and it's literally that mirror. Like you know he's going to do what I'm doing, like if I don't you know, react in the way that I'd like him to react.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it is just being much more conscious and I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's in those moments too, like if I can offer you something. It's like, you know, when you're in those moments, sometimes there's not much we can do, but supporting ourselves through those moments it's like, well, hang on, what am I making? This mean about me? Yeah, that's because sometimes we feel like we're telling ourselves I can't control this, I need this to stop, so that I feel okay. But when you switch it, it's like okay, so what can I give myself to feel okay, so that when I'm in these moments, I know that I can handle them and just be there.
Speaker 3:You know, hey, like acknowledging this is coming up for me right now. I'm safe, I'm okay. All I need to do right now is be with my child, and you find that the more that we can support ourselves, like with you know, like we say, like the leading up to this, with those practical skills, it's like I notice in my toddler now, from me working on my energy and my state, my being, his tantrums are not like, they're not, they're nothing, because I think that it comes down to as well, maybe he's you know, he uses person, but more so it's not as big and huge as it could be, because he's feeling safe.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm feeling safe and together we're. You know we're there and we're present.
Speaker 2:And what's like? What do you do, for instance, like when you feel overstimulated with all your senses because I feel like that's what motherhood does give us as well is that over this constant, over stimulation that's quite physical, you know, like when we have to, we're constantly exposed to this. You know, roller coaster of emotions with the toddlers and I sometimes I can feel myself being physically and mentally, of course, but trigger it, you know, trigger it, and I try to manage those triggers, like I have again phrases like I'm trying to coach myself in those moments. You know where I literally go like immature brain, immature brain, immature brain. So I have little tricks that help, but sometimes I just feel it still triggers my anxiety a lot.
Speaker 3:So I have a mentor that is in my pocket, someone who I do some work with, and this is, I think, the key of of healing, of supporting ourselves, of taking note of the triggers and then recognizing the patterns that play out after that. So, okay, like reflecting on the trigger after it's happened, so in the moment, hard to do, right. But when you reflect back on it, what was that thing that triggered me? Okay, like was it that my son? It was his big emotions. What did I tell myself in that moment? Or what did I feel in my body in that moment? What does that mean? Like what's obvious to me about this? That's when you can start unpacking it. Yeah, and then you can look at from there, like what is the pattern I run? Do I choose to do? I tell myself something and then you know something like I can't deal with. This is just too much. Like I'm a terrible mom, just shut up. Like you know. You're too much, like what is it? But then what happens after that? To soothe yourself?
Speaker 2:What do you?
Speaker 3:do? Do you go to the cupboard and eat? Do you have a glass of wine?
Speaker 3:I comfort eat for sure. Yeah, okay, I'm still there Some days, I still do it, but it's like when you have more of that awareness, you're like, okay, like I'm more conscious now, I know what I'm doing and I'm still going to choose to do it or I'm going to choose a more compassionate option. Yeah, but it's just starting to have a play with, like, the strategies, the patterns that we run from the trigger and getting curious with those, because you'll find that they give you an outcome at the end, makes you feel okay and it like it suppresses it for that moment. But if you don't take control of it, long term it will keep on happening.
Speaker 2:Totally, and I feel that is really beautifully said, because you know when we like use coping mechanisms to deal with the triggers or situations. If we don't, if we are not aware, if we are not conscious, if we haven't unpacked the underlying things that trigger us and make us react in a certain way, we will always revert back to those negative coping mechanism that don't serve us. But if we start unpacking and also like being aware of certain behaviors that we do, we realize that we're actually not acting on the base of self-love, but more so self-destruction. Right. So, for instance, with the comfort eating, for me it's a big one and I still sometimes do it, I'm not gonna lie because it does give me comfort in the moment. But it helps me know that I better understand how I get to that point. I recognize it much better and I'm actually able to say stop, you're actually. This is not self-love, this is self-destruction. You're not doing something that actually will make you feel better in the long term. And then I'm starting to divert to a different strategy.
Speaker 3:And that's where the consistency comes into it, but also, like you say, like you know, also acknowledging that sometimes maybe you want a piece of chocolate and it's like hey, I love it, but it's like, if it's a problem for you, then it's a problem that you can work through. If it's not, so be it.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's it. It's what we make it a problem or not. Absolutely. So I guess, to bum it all out, if there's one thing out of this conversation today that we should definitely remember, what would it be? Or the one message you want to give to us and our listeners?
Speaker 3:So have to be one.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, it's probably lost.
Speaker 3:I think it's probably like the work that I do always comes back to ourselves self-honoring, self-esteem, self-trust, self-love, self-compassion. You know, everything comes back to self, to ourselves. So I think, really just being curious always with everything, like question everything and also like being okay with the discomfort that you're in, because whatever is feeling uncomfortable for you is actually the work that will get you to where you want to be. It's kind of like just a blockage. It's like whatever is in the way is the way. So always be curious and just question everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. I love the word curious, actually. Thank you so much for sharing you know your thoughts on that, because I feel like we always say that at work as well, like when we because a lot of the work we do with brands, in marketing and stuff is understanding consumers, understanding behaviors, and we always say, like, be curious, be curious. So I think it's definitely something I'm going to take away from this conversation is to be more curious and, instead of labeling something negatively, like just be curious, tuning in trying to become more aware and more conscious.
Speaker 3:I'm noticing. So when you, yeah, be curious but, you know, have that separation between what's happening, because then you can start to notice in your body, is there a sensation, is there a thought, is there a feeling Like what is attached to this and what is underneath this? Yeah, it's true, it's getting to the bottom of it, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It's kind of like that's my reaction, this is how I feel, and then really unpacking that and actually understanding why do I feel this way.
Speaker 2:That is 100% true, and I think you know why it is. That's at least my interpretation. I think the state of being curious takes off the judgment. Yes, we are, you know, like, assessing a situation without judgment when we're curious, which I think that's what allows us to get to the bottom, yep.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, we're eating all Great summary.
Speaker 1:And Sarah, before we go, you have written an amazing book. Tell us about that, so.
Speaker 3:I co-authored the book called Women Leading the Way, and it is really about how women can overcome their perceived challenges, their self-doubt, their fear, and really step into a life of purpose. Strangely enough that we're talking about that. So, it was really about like it was about my healing journey through birth trauma and how I used that as an opportunity to support myself and to give back and also work through all of the conditioning that I had and unpack that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's a little bit of a woman. That's amazing, wow, congratulations on it. That's not easy to do and that requires lots of dedication, and mummy is working tonight. Consistency, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3:It's such a healing part of excuse me the birth trauma was really writing and so through that it really allowed those emotions to start flowing and be expressed and it was quite a huge part of the healing journey. So it's just strange that that all aligned quite beautifully.
Speaker 2:Love that. It's wonderful. So two birds with one stone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's inspiring Absolutely Well. Thank you so much for joining us today. It's a really lovely meeting. It's such a great conversation.
Speaker 2:I loved it and we're going to put your details in the show notes as well so people can follow you and details of your book as well, and I'm definitely going to put that on my list of books to read next.
Speaker 3:Yes, amazing. Thanks so much. Thank you, we'll have a lovely day, Sarah.
Speaker 2:We'll be in touch.
Speaker 1:Okay, thanks, sarah, take care. So nice to meet you.
Speaker 3:Bye yeah you too, bye, bye.
