Cycling Over Sixty

Outside the Park in Whistler

• Tom Butler • Season 4 • Episode 3

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Join host Tom Butler as he takes listeners on an adventure in his search for a new bike – a quest that proves to be different than anticipated. Tom also shares his thoughts on a innovative pump he backed on Kickstarter, giving you the scoop on whether this crowdfunded cycling accessory lives up to its promises.

The episode features an engaging conversation with Dave Brengelmann, who shares his experienced insights on mountain biking in Whistler, British Columbia. While Whistler's Mountain Bike Park has earned worldwide fame, Dave makes a compelling case that the truly exceptional riding experiences are found beyond the park's boundaries. He reveals the lesser-known trails and hidden gems that make Whistler a mountain biker's paradise.

Whether you like hearing about new bikes, curious about the latest cycling gear, or dreaming of your next two-wheeled adventure in one of the world's premier mountain biking destinations, this episode delivers the inspiration and information you need. Perfect for anyone who loves exploring fantastic places on two wheels.

Links

Zilch Webpage: radian-usa.com/collections/zilch

Zilch Video: youtu.be/7bKUteTzn3g?si=yl0W4G8F-I--E6Bi

Here is your invitation to join a great launch party for the summer cycling season.  Join the Cycling Over Sixty Tour de Cure PNW team.  Whether you are local or come out to experience cycling in the great Northwest, I would love to have you help make this a ride with a purpose.  And to send a message that the joy of cycling is here for everyone, regardless of age. Go to tour.diabetes.org/teams/CO60

I know it is early but we are looking to get the Cycling Over Sixty Tour de Cure team together as soon as possible. You can find all the info at tour.diabetes.org/teams/CO60

Thank you Konvergent Wealth for sponsoring CO60 Jerseys for the Tour de Cure!

Become a member of the Cycling Over Sixty Strava Club! www.strava.com/clubs/CyclingOverSixty

Cycling Over Sixty is also on Zwift. Look for our Zwift club!

Please send comments, questions and especially content suggestions to me at info@cyclingoversixty.com

Follow and comment on Cycling Over Sixty on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cyclingoversixty/

Show music is "Come On Out" by Dan Lebowitz. Find him here : lebomusic.com

Tom Butler:

So I'm starting off this week by focusing on my search for a gravel bike. I need a different bike that will serve three functions. One is to ride on gravel, the second is to do the bike camping, and finally, I think the same bike can handle cycle cross racing. I'm gonna bring you along as I go through the process of finding a new bike. I've got a ton of questions about what bike is right for me. I'm expecting it's gonna take a while to find just the right bike, and I'm not sure where the journey will take me, but I'm bringing you along. Here is my first segment of that search. I'm in my car in the parking lot outside Northwest Tryon Bike, and I'm beginning my search for a gravel bike. So I just have a simple thing I'm trying to figure out today, and that's how do I determine what I want as far as frame dimensions? I really like the way that my specialized reb feels. Can I just try to duplicate that the frame dimension on a gravel bike, or do I need to be thinking about a gravel bike frame differently? So this is step one. Uh I don't know how many steps it'll be, but the first step here is to get a handle on getting a gravel bike that'll fit me. So here we go. I'm back in the car after my discussions at Northwest Try and Bike, and uh I'm surprised to say that my search for a gravel bike is over. So there was this was not a long process. We got talking about a specific bike. Uh, it just like checked off all the boxes, boxes I didn't even know were gonna be boxes, long discussion, and so I'm done. So that was fast. Stay tuned. I'll be giving more details on what I chose, why I chose it, and all that stuff. And I am really excited. Yeah, sometimes things don't go exactly as planned. I never imagined that I would be able to walk into the closest bike shop to me and have the first bike we talked about be perfect. But that is what happened, and that makes the journey I was going to bring you along on way shorter than I expected. I'm not sharing the details of the bike here, I'll save that for a whole episode. But I'm excited to reveal what I chose and go through all the reasons why I made the choices I made. It might take a few weeks to get the bike in my hands, and I'll talk about it as soon as I can. I can share something else that is new. I'm not as excited about this as the new bike, but I'm still pretty pumped about it, which is a terrible pun because I want to share some information on my new bike pump. Several months ago I participated in my first Kickstarter campaign. I pre-purchased a Zilch floor pump. It's sold by a company named Radian. I've never liked standard floor pumps. The bond trigger pump I have is difficult to get connected fully to the stem. For some reason, I frequently smack my thumb when I'm disengaging the nozzle from the stem. My dissatisfaction with the bond trigger meant that I was attracted to the message about the zilch. They say, quote, the zilch head finally makes it easy for anyone to fill their bike tires, end quote. I've never really heard many people complaining, but I felt like Zilch understood me. They go on to say that the Zilch has an award-winning proprietary seal design. What I saw was enough for me to spend $105 to get one. Like with a lot of Kickstarter things, I had to wait a good amount of time to finally get the pump. But I am really happy with it. The head is a lot like what you would find on a plastic spray bottle, except a lot beefier. You put the nozzle over the stem and squeeze the trigger to seal it. When you're done inflating the tire, you squeeze the trigger again and it releases. It did take me a little bit to do it right, but probably for most people it should be easy to operate. My only complaint is that the pressure indication dial is not as good as on the Bond Traeger. Now there is an option for more money to get a digital display. I probably would have done that, but I don't think it was an option when I bought mine. I do want to find an accurate pressure gauge at some point, just to make sure that I can trust the pressure indicator on the Zilch. You can still get the pump for $105, but the normal price is listed as $130. It's currently on sale. The website is radianusa.com, and I'll put that link in the show notes. Well and that's the thing for this update. I don't think I will do any more cyclocrust racing this year. I just don't think my bike is adequate for it. That is especially true given the fact that I think cyclocrust courses are getting more and more challenging because of the rain here in the northwest now. That means I have a good bit of time to train for my next race. One thing I will be focused on is how to get more power when racing. During my first race, my heart rate was as high as I can sustain it. But that didn't translate to power as compared to what I put out at the same heart rate level on the road or on the indoor trainer. I'll be sharing with you everything I learned from my conversation with people about getting more power. Fortunately, I've got an access to a coach in John Butler, and I'll be working with the team at Physician Coach on kind of the physiology aspect of it. One thing I want to do before next fall is convince some Cycling Over 60 listeners to join me at a cyclecross race here in the Seattle area. So if that's you, reach out and let me know you're interested. I've only been to Whistler, British Columbia once. It was in the summertime. Kelly and I went up a long time ago for a timeshare presentation before I knew how miserable timeshare presentations are. We felt like it was one of the most beautiful places in the Northwest, but for some reason we haven't been back. One thing is that we aren't snowskiers. To be more accurate, I'm not a snow skier, and Kelly's needs have made it difficult for her to ski. But I often think about going back for a visit. When Dave Brenkelman emailed me about biking in Whistler, I was instantly interested in getting him on the podcast. Dave is a mountain biker, and I'm always hesitant to talk about mountain biking because I secretly don't want to like it. I fear open the door to need to buy yet another bike. Dave brings the perspective of someone who really enjoys getting out in the forest on a bike, and I'm so glad he came on. Here is our conversation. It is a pleasure to introduce listeners to Dave Brengelman. Thank you, Dave, for joining me today.

Dave Brengelmann:

Thank you for the invitation. It's an honor to be here.

Tom Butler:

There are some exceptional outdoor recreation locations around, and today we're going to get into one. But to start the conversation, talk about your first experience with the bicycle.

Dave Brengelmann:

My first experience with a bike, I suppose that's the U District in Seattle. I grew up on Pratt Row. My father worked in health sciences. As a kid, the University of Washington was my playground. And later, I guess I would commute to my dad's lab to do homework. So I was always riding around the alleys of the U District. You know, we're talking back in the Ted Bundy days, right? Riding my bike down to health sciences and just riding around the University of Washington, especially in the summer when there was nobody around. So I really enjoyed growing up and having both the UW and the Green Lake as a playground and a place to ride my bike.

Tom Butler:

That image it brings up to me is a kid being able to be independent and being able to make decisions about where you're going. You're not stuck in a car, you're kind of out and about. And I love that image.

Dave Brengelmann:

Yeah, I think as bikers, we all have a sense of freedom, right? And as an adolescent, it's especially nice to, I suppose, jump on the Burk Gilman and ride for miles to get away. So it is freedom and uh independence that makes it really nice.

Tom Butler:

Now, have you stayed active all your life?

Dave Brengelmann:

Yeah, pretty much. I've been an active skier. You know, we have ski areas just 90 minutes away from Seattle. And I haven't been a biker all my life, but skiing and boating and hiking and running, I guess. So I've been pretty active. But I have to say, uh, when I started cycling, I I became much more active and much more fit later in life.

Tom Butler:

Uh, did you have a bike and you used it every once in a while, or was it really kind of a period where you were not on a bicycle?

Dave Brengelmann:

Well, let's see. Had an office next to Green Lake and no bike. A co-worker sold me a bike for 400 bucks. And I started riding around Green Lake in the morning. And then a buddy from the gym challenged me to do the Seattle to Portland bike ride. And like many of us in Seattle, that's a bucket list item, right? So I started training in uh January, maybe 10 years ago, for the STP and did the ride. Now, you know, I've got five STPs and numerous cascade rides behind me. I got a shout out to that organization. As you know, they are fantastic for anybody getting into biking. You know, I'll teach you how to train for a 200-mile bike ride. And many of us, our first century ride, first hundred-mile ride is flying wheels in the Snoqualmie Valley. So that SDP got me hooked on biking, changed my life, had a sailboat up until that point, got rid of the boat and started biking on the weekends.

Tom Butler:

Well, you talked about Green Lake, and for people that aren't in the area, it is a freshwater lake that's kind of north of Seattle a little bit, north of downtown Seattle a little bit. And it's got a trail around it. It's a pretty busy and pretty popular place to get outdoors.

Dave Brengelmann:

Yeah, all times of the year, dreary days, sunny days. There's people out on Green Lake. And recently they, even though bikes are permitted in the inner ring, so to speak, they have an outer ring that's bikes only. It's protected bike lane, so it's a fantastic place to go, especially this time of year in the autumn when the leaves are changing.

Tom Butler:

Have you experienced cycling outside the U.S.? I I think that I read that you lived in Japan. Is that right?

Dave Brengelmann:

That's correct. I lived in Japan, so I used to drive, I used to ride a junker from my apartment to the train station. But aside from that, it might have been renting a bike for a day in China or Vietnam. And of course, having done that, I I got a shout out to all those guys who who are doing tours over there because it'd be fantastic to go to Vietnam for a week or two, or Japan, or Cambodia, or Malaysia. And I'm sure there are many experts who would be glad to be on your podcast to talk about that.

Tom Butler:

Let's talk about mountain biking. You're a marketing guy, so sell me on mountain biking for cyclists over 60 because I've not taken that up. Now, one thing is you know, I don't need another form of biking to have to buy a bike to do, but um, but sell me on mountain biking for cyclists over 60.

Dave Brengelmann:

Uh, that's a good one. All I gotta say is you gotta do it. You know, I think it's an evolution from road to gravel to mountain, or maybe road to mountain. But riding on the road is so dangerous, right? I mean, granted, mountain biking is dangerous too. You can get hurt, but it's within your control. But road biking, you never know if you're gonna get hit by a distracted driver. People are killed, right? So safety is one thing, but I think what it is for me, with a mountain bike, you get to see these incredible views. And I just have I think one mountain bike trip to a place like the plains of Abraham and Mount St. Helens would turn you into a mountain biker for a for life because you are in a sea of wildflowers or the number two canyon over in Wenatchee when the wildflowers are out. I mean, you can if you're on a road, you're looking at asphalt and yellow lines and curves. But if you're in a sea of wildflowers and looking at Mount Rainier or Mount St. Helens or Mount Baker, it really doesn't get any better than that. Although, maybe with road biking, start your mountain riding up the passes we have locally. You can get up to the Sunrise Visitor Center without cars, or Artist, is it Artist Point or Artist Ridge at Mount Baker without cars? You can get to Hurricane Ridge without cars. That is some of the best road biking that we have in the Pacific Northwest.

Tom Butler:

And my failed attempt to ride across Washington State. I was on roads that weren't, you know, it wasn't free of cars, you know, so there was that element. But there is something about experiencing the natural world on a bicycle and on the speed of cycling that I find to be really unique. And so you're probably right, you know, to have uh one of those experiences uh where I'm thinking you can get out there without a lot of people around. You know, if you're out riding with a group of people, you're maybe with people, but I'm thinking you can get out to some of these areas where there aren't a lot of people around and just experience that on the uh speed of cycling. That sounds pretty attractive to me.

Dave Brengelmann:

Yeah, but I mean, admit it, you road bikers, sorry, you road bikers are just addicted to endorphins. I've been there, right? An eight-hour ride, uh 10-hour ride on a road bike is such a great high, for lack of a better word. It's just that endorphin rush. And there's something to that. But while you're having, I love this, you know, me versus you guys, right? You guys are out there having your power bars and your goo. I'm sitting on some mountaintop with a sandwich, right? As a matter of fact, recently I have an e-bike, all right. I'm sorry, I'm a center. I have an e-mountain bike, and I was on my e mountain bike with on a gravel ride up by Hayek, Snowqualming Pass, and we were at mile 50, maybe, and my friends were all huffing and puffing, and I decided to open my basket on the way up a hill and start feeding on some olives and cheese and offering it to my friends, right? They were so mad. But mountain biking is that it's it's so nice to be out and see these incredible remote places that we have around the state.

Tom Butler:

Well, I think the the truth of the matter is the bicycle is not just one thing. You know, the bicycle is multiple things. And there are times when I'm out for a ride, and the bicycle is just a device for me to push myself physically. And there's other times when I'm out with my family and it's a device for me to experience the environment, and I'm not pushing myself physically at all. You know, there's times when the bike is a way to get through a city and not have to deal with a car. That's what I love about the bicycle. And what's so intriguing to me, and what just sucks me into the bicycle, is it's not just one. You're describing an aspect of the bicycle that is a fantastic aspect.

Dave Brengelmann:

Well, at the same time, it's nice to jump on the bike. I live in North Seattle, very close to Edmonds. It's nice to jump on the bike and go into town and maybe grab a beer or two. So just as a mode of transportation, it's fantastic. And then around the Seattle area, it doesn't matter if you have a mountain bike or a gravel bike or road bike, the way this our city was set up in the early days by the landscape architecture firm, right? The Olmsted Brothers, there's so many great places to take a bike. For example, Interlocken, right? And Capitol Hill and the Ravine and Cowan Park and Ravenna Park and Lake Washington Boulevard. These were all designed, paid for by our early city founders, and any kind of bike, it doesn't matter what you have, we'll get you to those places.

Tom Butler:

Yeah, and so I'll take a moment to promote, you know, come out to Seattle and ride. Um, if you're hearing this in May, book a trip, be here May 2nd, and uh you can ride with us, the tour to cure, and then also experience some of these other great places to ride around. So uh put that on your calendar and start making plans to come out and join us.

Dave Brengelmann:

I'd love that May 2nd. I'll be there.

Tom Butler:

So talk about your journey to find a bike.

Dave Brengelmann:

Well, back to the STP. You don't really need anything fancy, you don't need to go and buy a $4,500 bike or a $5,000 bike if you're gonna do a century or two centuries on a weekend. I started again with a $400 urban cruiser that I did my first century on, you know, an old specialized. But from there, I mean, you know, year or two, I I upgraded to a um a Cannondale. Fortunately, that was ripped off in Granville Island up in Vancouver, another great place to ride. Vancouver, BC, up in Canada. Insurance took care of an upgrade for me, so I upgraded to Le Bay, and that is the mountain, the mountain climbing road bike for you know Mount Rainier and Mount Baker, right? And Hurricane Ridge. At that point, you know, most of my friends were riding gravel, and I it was time to buy a bike. And I'm thinking, what do what do I got to get? A $6,500 diverge or what to keep up with all these bike packers. And I thought, well, you know, an e-mountain bike can do gravel and it can do mountain and it can do roads. So I ended up buying a specialized Levo SL, a super light mountain bike. And for those who are interested in mountain bikes, there's such a plethora of options today. And there's class one, two, three. We don't need to get into that, but just in class ones, the ones that'll give you a little bump into 20 miles an hour, you have super light mountain bikes and you have, you know, these big tanks. I bought a super light mountain bike that's 38 pounds, and it makes for a graph, a great gravel ride. I've put a little bit skinnier tires on there, and I'll go out and do a 60-mile gravel ride with friends or use that as an urban cruiser. It's perfectly adequate to have a super light bike with a smaller motor. You just have to work harder and it'll keep you a little more fit. Now I'm at a point where uh I'm starting to ride with a different group of guys, moto guys, who you know, these guys all grew up on motorcycles and they're about going fast. And so I ended up with a new specialized turbo Livo 4, and it's got so much power, it you know, you end up doing wheelies when you're going uphill. It's dangerous, it's unnecessary. So uh anyway, start if you're just starting in mountain biking, I encourage encourage you to look at a super light bike.

Tom Butler:

I think that's probably something to try to rent someplace. I imagine you could go out and rent one of those and to give it a try out someplace. Do you know if that's the case?

Dave Brengelmann:

I know we'll be talking about Whistler later, but if you go up to a place like Whistler, there are five or six different stores, and they have every kind of bike you can imagine. So you can try a super light bike, which is going to be around 38, 37 pounds, or you can try a standard mountain bike, which is gonna be closer to 60 pounds.

Tom Butler:

Well, you mentioned Whistler, and so you reached out, you were talking about being a fan of Whistler Blackcomb in British Columbia. And first, just talk about like the environment there. What's it like? What's the countryside like?

Dave Brengelmann:

There's a common expression at Whistler. Everybody knows Whistler for the great winter activities, right? People go there for the winter, but they stay there for the summer. You have one of the world's best, well, we'll just say the world's best bike park, right? The best bike park on the planet, and it's got everything, right? It's got everything. But I'm not here to talk about the bike park today, because what I think is so special about Whistler are the 200 miles of trails outside of the park. So go up and enjoy the park, you know, spend an arm and a leg on a ticket, but be up there for a week and then just start sampling the trail network. There's two I want to talk about today the village trail network, which is all asphalt, it's great for road riding, and then the mountain biking network. So in the valley, you have I think it's close to 30, 40 miles uh road riding, and there's four lakes. So you can you can ride around a different lake or all the lakes, but the best riding is in is in the hills. And so you're pulling into Whistler, and imagine looking to your left and looking to your right. There's a little town called a little area called Function Junction on the way in. From Function Junction all the way to Pemberton, there's places to mountain bike on both sides of the valley, and there's anything you want. There's spicy blue, there's green. You know, most people start with the Lost Lake Trails, also known as the Zappa Trails. Have you heard of those?

Tom Butler:

No.

Dave Brengelmann:

Well, I'm not a Zappa fan, but I can tell you that the guy that built the Zappa Trails was a fan. So you go into this area, it's all by Lost Lake, and you'll find Pinocchio's furniture and Toads of the Short Forest, and treacherous Creekens, and Muffin Men, and Central Scrutinizer, and Johnny Can't Read. And you look in their old Zappa's followings. But nice, that's a great place to start your mountain biking journey. So rent a bike in town and then try the Lost Lake Trails. There are green trails and blue trails, and there's black, they're black trails. They're all very well maintained by the city and they're very well marked. You know, you you should probably have uh trail forks so you can uh know your way around because you will get lost in the lost lake trails. But there's a there's a trail trail that well basically takes you to the sea to sky, sea to sky, not the sea to sky highway, but the sea to sky trail. You can find a bike trail all the way basically from Squamish to Pemberton. So from Squamish to Whistler to Pemberton, there's there might be 10 or 15 miles you have to ride on the road, but there's great riding all throughout the region. So you have the Was Lake Trails. I'll just say if you're first going to Whistler, I recommend you take the green trails to Green Lake and check up the spin.

Tom Butler:

So when you're talking about green trails, is that a signification of difficulty?

Dave Brengelmann:

Yes, it's not, they're all environmentally very green, I am sure. But yeah, just like uh skiing, green, blue, and black and double black. And I tell you, it's it's a little bit different. If you are used to the Seattle mountain biking scene, you know, you'll ride a blue or you'll ride a green or a black. Up there, they're very spicy. So if you can imagine a spicy blue is like a black. And if you talk to anybody in Squamish and you ask them, you know, what should I ride? I'm like an intermediate writer, and they'll send you on a blue. Well, that blue is going to scare you a little bit. Here's an example of a blue. You're coming up on a on a hill, a crest of a hill, and there's some rocks you have to navigate, and then you go over the top, and it's like, oh my goodness, I'll just say that. There's like an elevator shaft you have to go down. And that's a blue run, right? And there's there's no looking back. You you need to be an experienced rider if you're gonna ride blues in squamish, and we'll sort of a little bit easier. I would encourage you to take a progression. So start on the greens and then and then just evolve up to the blacks, and and in a couple years you'll be riding comfortably numb in the uh in the area, which is really scary. But uh anyway, that's it.

Tom Butler:

I would be more than happy, I think, with staying on greens as much as I can.

Dave Brengelmann:

Good thing for you is so you're traveling with an expert, you can be on the green, and the blues run parallel, they're just up for bill. And they might have some bridges and they might have some drops, but you can run along on your green and you're just fine, and the blues can eventually come back and meet the green. So the lost lake trails, that's one of the beautiful things. Now, what I would probably recommend, I'm gonna mention my favorite spot, although I shouldn't give away the secret. Let me just say that up in up in Canada, maybe it's a little less litigious, maybe the people are nicer, but they allow mountain bikes on some of the best hiking trails. There's a hiking trail that goes to Lake Chickamas. Lake Chickamas is just up the river from Function Junction, so you can ride or shuttle up to the trailhead and then ride your mountain bike or hike to Lake Chickamas. And you get up to the lake, and it's this green, glacial, silk, emerald, beautiful lake, and there aren't too many people out. You share the trail with hikers, so you gotta be really careful. And I just worry that someone is gonna ruin it for us all, and eventually they will not allow bikers because down here in the United States, we wouldn't allow mountain bikers on such a trail.

Tom Butler:

What is the etiquette there? How how do you handle having hikers on the same trail?

Dave Brengelmann:

Well, I think it's good practice to have a bear bell so they hear you coming. Actually, yes, the Canadians they think bear bells aren't effective. It's more of a dinner bell than a bear bell. But at least uh you know I have ridden the local trails, like we have a park right off of Lake Washington called St. Edward's. Great place for an afternoon ride, but there's a lot of trail runners, so you gotta let them know you're coming. And then, of course, everybody else has the right of way all the time. So when it comes to mountain biking, and this is different than road road biking, you got to be ready to stop on a dime. If you're following a rider, you're not gonna get a signal. You know, when we road bike, we're on a cascade ride, everybody's yelling, you know, car up, car back, you get signals when you're moving in and out of lanes, not mountain biking, you got to be ready to stop on a dime. So the etiquette is yes, everybody else has the right of way. But if you approach another mountain biker, the mountain biker that is going uphill has the right of way. And it seems like a lot of people don't know that, so you just gotta be careful. If you're if you're going uphill, you know, chugging along, and someone's coming down, whoever's coming down should really just stop and pull off on the side and let the uphill rider proceed.

Tom Butler:

It's a well-known area, and I'm wondering about crowds. Do you do you find it to be crowded there? Do you are there certain times that you wouldn't go up there? What's your thoughts there?

Dave Brengelmann:

Well, if you're over 60 and retired, you're biking Monday through Friday and not spending too much time on the weekends, but it does get crowded, and the Lost Lake Trails are crowded with tourists, and they may be novice riders. So you have to take special care in the trails. And they don't know that uphill riders have the right-of-way. So you have to assume that everybody's out there for a good time and you don't want to scare them or dissuade them from biking. It's almost the same thing on our local trails. The rail to trail here in the Seattle area, Burke Gilman, right? That was one of the first trails, first rail to trails project in the United States. States and many were designed after that. You know, this female's 15, and you see families there and people walking their dogs. And I see uptight bikers, but there should be no reason to be cruising past people and scaring people or hitting people. So mountain biking is the same thing, but to answer your question, yeah, bike on bike during the week and you won't have uh much for crowds. Early season, uh Whistler early season is fantastic because you can ride on the golf courses. They're close to dog walkers because of the bears, you might encounter some bears. To be able to uh ride those beautiful grounds early in the season is just fantastic. There's just gorgeous. So if Whistler get there early in the season, the same thing is true for the bike park. If you wait till the end of the summer to get to the bike park, the trails are not going to be in optimal condition. They're going to be there's going to be a lot of brake bumps. And any mountain biker knows what I'm talking about, right? There's just it's almost a washboard-like surface where people apply their brakes before turns, and uh little annoying.

Tom Butler:

So start early and have smooth riding. So you talked about your favorite riding place, and uh go into a little more detail. What what the experience, like how far would you go out? What what's the environment like? What's the trail like? Talk a little bit more about that.

Dave Brengelmann:

Right. Let me take you on a run. So we're gonna start at function junction. We can park right at the bottom of the hill, really close to the freeway. The nice thing about function junction is there's coffee shops, so you can start your day with a cup of coffee and pastry if you want, and maybe meet some locals, right? And that's another story, but it seems like every time you're you're riding at what's if you're ever alone, you're never alone because you're gonna meet a local and they're gonna tour you all around. But anyway, you start at function junction and climb up the hill next to the river. You can go up the road or you can shuttle, but you know, the best thing is to go up by the river. So you're going up the Chickmas River, and after maybe 40 minutes, 45 minutes of climbing, you're at the trailhead. That's where the hikers start. And that's the point where you'd shuttle if you wanted to. So you you ride the basically it's a flat trail or a traverse, there's some up and downs, not a lot of elevation. But the beautiful thing is you go from secondary growth to old growth, and it's like a clear markation, and you know, because all of a sudden in the summer, you know, you've you're in old growth where there's a limited canopy and it's hot and it might be buggy, but then you get to the old growth, and it's wonderfully cool and quiet, and this it's got this loamy surface. So you travel that out to you travel that out to the lake, you get to the lake, maybe you pass by three groups of hikers, everybody's nice. And then you have lunch at the lake. You come back after lunch, and then you've got four flow trails that take you back to function junction. And uh yeah, mountain bikers know what I'm talking about, flow trails. It's just you don't even hardly have to hit your brakes, you just effortlessly glide down the hill. And yeah, there's some bridges and there's some drops, but you can roll everything. And at the end of the ride, you're having a beer. There's two great breweries down there. I've got a favorite, but no plugs. Uh, there's two breweries down there, so you can get your IPA. And then, like, this happens to me. Then I meet a guy and he's like, Oh, you want to uh ride down to Bridal Vale Falls on the Sea to Sky Highway? Uh it's like, okay, I got some battery left. So I follow this guy, he's probably 70, 75. Down the Sea to Sky Trail, it goes over the bungee zone. So bikes are allowed to cross that bridge. You might see some bungee jumpers, it's kind of neat. And then you end up with these incredible rock formations where you're on basalt pillars, they're all hexagons, right? And then there's you keep on going a little bit, and there's this ancient labyrinth that was built by we'll say First Nations people, and then you're at Brandy Wine Falls, and they have these wonderful water poles. Well, locally, we have snow quality poles, right? You can ride our bikes in the snowmobile. This is different because you get to ride the sea to sky mountain biking single track, rode all the way to the waterfalls. And in our case, we came up back up on the highway. I didn't have much battery, and it was hot and it was horrible, but I figured if the 70-year-old guy could do it, I could follow him up. So you end up at function junction, and that's a day of riding at Whistler.

Tom Butler:

Wow, that that does sound spectacular for sure. You're focused here on mountain biking, but I'm wondering if somebody wanted to combine a mountain biking trip with a road trip or a gravel trip, would you find all those options as well in the area?

Dave Brengelmann:

Yeah, we just did that last month. So there's a Whistler Grand Fonda, and for all you roadies out there, I challenge you to ride from Vancouver to Whistler in a day.

Tom Butler:

So what's the mileage on that?

Dave Brengelmann:

Oh, don't ask me. I'll look it up. I don't know the mileage on that, but it is a solid century with plenty of elevation, and conditions can be tough.

Tom Butler:

Well, I'm looking at this RBC Grand Fondo Whistler, and it says that it's uh 122 kilometers, which is 76 miles, 2300 meters of elevation, so 7,500 feet of elevation. So that's a pretty good chunk of elevation. But man, what an adventure that would be for sure.

Dave Brengelmann:

And the nice thing is that uh there's a bike link dedicated to that ride. I you know, bless my friends for doing that, but I just have no desire whatsoever. Maybe I am too old at 62 to think of a grand fondo, but more power to them. They're strong riders.

Tom Butler:

Now they do have a 55-kilometer route that starts in Whistler Village and ends in Whistler Village, and that's uh 2,740 feet of elevation. So that's 34 miles, 2,745 feet of elevation. That wouldn't be bad. That's that's doable.

Dave Brengelmann:

More power to you. I'll be uh cracking a beer in Punction Junction watching go by. I gotta tell you, it was great to be at the finish line because I was up there for the whole week and to see the guys that finished first. They're just incredible, incredible athletes.

Tom Butler:

Yeah, I would imagine it's very hot.

Dave Brengelmann:

I had a bunch of friends that rode the Grand Fonda and met me. But as soon as they got up to Whistler, they ditched their road bikes and got on mountain bikes, and we started on the Lost Lake Trails, and we went up Chicometas and we did the Sea to Sky. I gotta mention uh here's another secret. One of the most beautiful places on the Sea to Sky bike trail is Gord's Garden. Now, Gordon is uh the brainchild of the Sea to Sky Highway, and there's a memorial tomb in this really beautiful spot. I uh challenge listeners to go find it, start your day in Pemberton and ride the Sea to Sky. You'll be in for a very pleasant surprise. There's more waterfalls there, too. I would encourage folks to think about instead of a Grand Fondo ride, but maybe riding from Squamish to Whistler to Pemberton on a mountain bike on a sea to sky trail.

Tom Butler:

This is a tourist destination place. Talk a bit about the dining and lodging options up there.

Dave Brengelmann:

Well, the lodging options in the winter are very expensive, right? It's very crowded. There's a lot of demand. There's people coming from all over the world. So you might end up spending four or five hundred dollars in US per night for accommodations. But the summer is completely different. If you get up there with your bicycle in the summer, you can find great discounts and only end up spending maybe a couple hundred dollars a night for a really nice place. And what we do is usually put five or six or seven bicyclists in one place, and and uh everybody pays like maybe I don't know, 25, 30, 40, 50 bucks for a bed, and it works out really well, share meals. So if you go up there with a group and find a larger place, you'll it'll be inexpensive.

Tom Butler:

Yeah, I'm guessing dining, there's just everything up there.

Dave Brengelmann:

Yeah. I mean my favorite is uh little Mexican place right by uh the supermarket, but there are two grocery stores, and and it seems like a lot of us would just prefer to get a place with a kitchen and and cook. But yeah, there's great places to dine, and it's not too crowded in the summer. There are so many events and you know, festivals, events to enjoy throughout the summer. So maybe go up there during crankworks and see some of the best, well, see the mountain biking Olympics, so to speak, and you'll still find a place and it won't be too expensive.

Tom Butler:

Nice. You mentioned in the wintertime people flock from all over the world to ski there. Uh from what you're describing, it seems like it should have that kind of enthusiasm as a mountain biking place. It does.

Dave Brengelmann:

Festivals like Crankworks, for example, attract athletes from all over the world. The labor situation in Whistler is such that there's a ton of Australians. So anytime you go, you'll run into Australians, many of them are local. But I have found that there are people from all over the world, including many Latinos from Central and South America. So it's a wonderful, you know, diverse environment. Everybody's there for the same reason because they love mountain biking. Again, most of the people are in the park, but road bikers and you know the folks like me that might want more of an adventure. You don't find me in the park. You might find me on the dessert platter. If I if allow me to talk about one run, it's a spicy blue. Now, let me back up for a minute. If you have any questions, go into the bike shops and talk to the guys, support the bike shops, right? And after you've made a purchase, ask them about where the bike is. And I shop at this place called Fanatical up there because there's two independent shops and they're the specialized dealer. I'm a specialized guy, but they recommended the dessert platter. And I'm thinking, what is this? But all the runs are named after dessert. So you start with a piece of cake, right? A piece of cake is not a piece of cake. Then you have salted caramel. You see why it's called salted caramel, because the loamy single track has all these big sharp boulders in it, like salt, big chunks of salt. And then there's green jello, and I'm I'm giving them in the wrong order, but the dessert platter is one of the great spicy blue networks that runs that you can do. So it's spicy blue climbing, followed by uh really enjoyable descents.

Tom Butler:

That's awesome. That's that's really fun. I love these trail names. I I live in it. Is there anywhere in the world that you'd like to take your mountain bike to?

Dave Brengelmann:

Well, I have a daughter that lives in Grand Junction, so I am fortunate to be able to uh you know tell my wife, you know, sorry, honey, I I gotta go visit the daughter and jump in my uh house back and throw the mountain bike on back and and mountain bike from basically whistler to Moab. And I gotta tell you, you know, I I'd love to get back to Moab because the slick rock is such a unique adventure. Additionally, they just opened up many of the trails to e-bikes. Common sense has prevailed, so you can ride the whole enchilada. Uh, I think it's 26 miles downhill or something crazy like that, on an e-bike. But yeah, so I'd like to get back to Colorado, but some of the highlights are the 18 road trails out of Fruta, for example. There's a wonderful flow trail. I think one of my favorite runs I've been to is the Loom Trail in Lake Tahoe. I I think it's under construction or maintenance right now, so you can't ride it. But I'd like to get back there and then, of course, back to Mount St. Helens, because that's gotta be one of the most incredible rides on the planet. You know, you're halfway up the volcano in these beautiful fields. Uh, but it is not for the timid. There's one section that could have dire consequences if you slip or fall. You would do not ride it. You walk your bike on that section unless you're completely crazy. But if you fall, you're lost. You're gone. Wow. So be careful out there.

Tom Butler:

Are you familiar with the Great Divide mountain bike route?

Dave Brengelmann:

Yeah, a little. Yeah. Friends aspire to do it. Uh, I'm more familiar with Cross Washington. I don't know if your listeners know about Cross Washington, but I have quite a few friends that have ridden from the coast to Idaho. And uh, I don't know the exact, and maybe it's 700 miles and 70,000 vert, but it's a single track right across Washington State. And I challenge any mountain bikers to do that. I like one particular section of it, the Olympic Adventure Trail. Have you heard of that, Tom? I have not. Well, you got the Discovery Trail and the Adventure Trail, right? Okay. Discovery Trail, everybody knows about that. I'm sure you guys have talked about it before, but the adventure trail basically goes from Port Angeles to the lake. So you can, we're talking about Crescent, right? So you can ride that trail, which is single track, again, 25 miles or whatever, get to the lake, go to the Devil's Punch Bowl and jump off the cliff into the lake, and then you can ride road back. But that is part of the cross Washington. But you know, kudos to uh all the riders because they are incredible. It's self-support. So you ride across Washington, you might find dinner in a convenience store, or maybe there's some trail angels. These riders are incredible. You know, it it starts, I think it's very early spring or late winter. It's basically when the tunnel up at Hayek opens up. So these guys all hope that the tunnel opens up so they can ride through there because uh that is the best route. But I would encourage your listeners to look in that route if they're very serious about bike packing and then they have a good sense of adventure about them. So sorry to to take the subject from the the what is it, the Great Divide. Uh my sites are just more local.

Tom Butler:

Well, I like it. I but it it seems like you would have the time to maybe take on the Great Divide or sections of the Great Divide. And I have heard that that's a special route.

Dave Brengelmann:

That sounds fantastic, and more power to anybody that is interested in doing that. I think I I prefer to have uh you know a warm shower and uh uh an Airbnb or a hotel or the back of my outfat than sleeping in the dirt surrounded by wildlife.

Tom Butler:

I'm gonna change gears a little bit here because I I as I talked about, you did spend some time in Japan. There is a famous bike ride in Japan, and I I don't know if you've heard about it, but it's it's 70 kilometers. It crosses six islands in the Seto Island Sea. I'm gonna have a hard time here with names connecting Hanshu and the Shikoku Islands. Okay. Are you familiar with that? Honshu and Shikoku, sure. It talks about the route as being well marked with designated cycling paths on bridges, and it's accessible to various fitness levels, and it says it does have some hills. To me, some of the the pictures uh of that route just look really cool. And I'm wondering if you've ever heard of that uh ride at all.

Dave Brengelmann:

I've never heard of that ride, but it sounds fantastic to be in rural areas or depend on a bike. It'll be fantastic. You know, everybody's so nice. The drivers are excellent, and so less likely to hit you food is fantastic. So kudos to anybody. But you've piqued my interest, but I first have to uh go to Hokkaido to get some skiing done before I jump on a bike.

Tom Butler:

Gotcha. Well, I think the name of it, I I'm gonna try to say the name of it here. It's Shimonami Kaido. Yes, Shimonami Kaido. And so I would be very interested to hear from anybody that's done it. And it's I I think it's I'm gonna put that on my list of one of those things to do someday because it it looks pretty cool.

Dave Brengelmann:

I might be there with you. You can cycle from Hunshu to Shikoku on a 70-kilometer bike ride route. It does look stunning.

Tom Butler:

Well, I'll keep you on the list of people that might be interested in doing it someday.

Dave Brengelmann:

I am very interested. I am very interested. And at least you'll have one person in your group who's fluent in Japanese.

Tom Butler:

Then nice. I love it. Before we wrap this up, I want to ask you about knee surgery. Uh, you recently had knee surgery, and and talk to me about how that's impacting your cycling, what your view on the future is, things like that.

Dave Brengelmann:

I can speak to you about health after three knee surgeries. I've skied all my life, and I figure once you hit about a million moguls, your knees are just shot. But the wonderful thing about cycling, you know, it doesn't matter if it's mountain biking or gravel or road, is it brings us back to health. After mountain biking, even e-mountain biking, I have been more fit aerobically than I ever have in my life. You know, you know, growing up a doughboy, maybe being 185 pounds for most of my adult life, you know, with kids and all that, it's complicated. Yeah, I mean, not complicated, that's just what happens. But now at 175 pounds, thanks to fitness. But after my most recent knee surgery, I haven't been able to be on a bike. Actually, tomorrow or the next day, I'll finally get on a bike. Uh, so I've gained four or five pounds just doing the inactivity. So I'm dying to get back out on that bike. But anybody who's faced with health challenges, I just encourage them to get on a bike, even consider an e-bike. You can dial it in. You know, Tom, I would guess that when you're biking, sometimes you're at 140 heartbeats a minute or 160, and you're pushing it, that's great, right? But you know, if you want to lose fat and be fit, you're fine at 110, 120, 130 beats per minute. So get an e-bike and you're still working hard. Like that earlier, I talked about the dessert tracks, uh, you know, up at Worcester. I was checking my heart rate, and it's like 160 beats per minute, and I'm on an e-bike, right? Or comfortably in almost the same wave. We're we're just working harder. But again, with an e-bike, you can dial it back. You know, look at the research if aerobic activities at a lower heart rate end up with uh more fat loss and uh in shape. So it's getting my knees back into shape.

Tom Butler:

Well, I think that's a fantastic point. The fat that we have around organs, that's really bad fat, you know, and so to be doing an activity like what you're saying, and at a low enough intensity that you're burning fat, for a lot of people, that is gonna be like a number one thing that they can do in order to achieve better metabolic function is to be burning off that fat that is around their organs. And that that's the way it was for me. You know, it was interrupting my ability to function metabolically, and so that low intensity stuff, you know, going out and doing that, that's when you burn the fat. And so uh it's a it's a great point. And that's why I'm a big fan of e-bikes for two reasons. One is that you have that ability to dial it to where you need it to be for your fitness goals, and the other thing is it's great if you haven't been out on a bike for a long time, it's a great way to start, you know, especially if you're in an area where you're around a lot of hills, it's a great way to get back on a bike. So I'm for it.

Dave Brengelmann:

Anyone considering the mountain bike purchase, just don't buy a mountain bike that has a throttle. Because then you will not be peddling. Good feedback. Even me, my wife and I rented bikes in California, class three, right? Up to 27 miles an hour with throttle. And you know, you you're being good for the first mile, but then you just you just hit that throttle and enjoy the ride. And uh, if I had a throttle on my e-bike, I would be uh 200 pounds. Yeah, gotcha, gotcha.

Tom Butler:

Dave, thank you so much for joining me. This was great. And I, you know, I have to be honest, I'm not ready to go out and buy a mountain bike yet, but I'm definitely going to have to, you know, and I'm in a great area to do this. I'm I'm gonna have to uh find someplace, rent one, and you know, and try it and add that to kind of my cycling experiences.

Dave Brengelmann:

Well, I promise you, once you do that, your podcast will be mountain biking over 60 instead of cycling over 60. But I got to put in a plug for the Evergreen Mountain Biking Society. We have a local organization that takes care of our trails here. They also advocate for mountain biking. You go over to the Kit Sap Peninsula, for example, and and ride the Pork Gamble Trails, and you see what they have done. So anybody considering mountain biking, I would encourage them to look online for this organization and either volunteer to help build trails or donate to the pause.

Tom Butler:

Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance is Evergreen Mountain Biking Alliance. Yeah, good people. Again, thanks so much, Dave, and uh good luck on your recovery. I'm glad you're close to jumping on a bike again. I hope uh it all goes smoothly.

Dave Brengelmann:

Thank you very much, Tom. It's been a pleasure to be here.

Tom Butler:

One of the things I like most about what Dave talked about is that he stays away for the most part from the mountain bike park. If you look for mountain biking on the Whistler tourism site, you get images of the park. I can see how I would have been attracted to the experience 40 years ago. But for me now, I really want to make a trip to Whistler to experience the trails outside the park. I would absolutely love to do the RBC Grandfundo Whistler, but 7,500 feet of elevation gain just sounds too much for me. Of course, I'm doing things now that I never thought I would, so maybe I have 7,500 feet of climbing in me. But I have some other rides, like 5,411 feet on the ride the hurricane to conquer, before I do the Whistler Grandfondo. Whistler is a good example of something I would like to plan out far enough so that we can make it a cycling or 60 group ride. I'm just beginning to think more about how to bring people together for rides. I see the Tour de Cure on May 2nd of next year as a perfect opportunity to get people together. I expect this to be a blast. Please consider coming out for that ride. And please, please sign up now if you think you will make it next spring. I have a lot to plan, and I need to know really early how many will make it. If you do sign up now and you can't make it in the spring, remember it is just a $30 donation that goes to help the American Diabetes Association. So it isn't money wasted. I hope you have some robust fenders on your bike. If you are seeing winter weather where you are, hopefully you have all the gear to make cycling in the rain of race. And remember, eight is just a gear change.

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Tom Butler

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