The Examined Life

Surviving Hard Times: The Stockdale Paradox And Everyday Resilience - ft. Terry Waite and Lucy Hone

• Kenneth Primrose

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We trace how realistic hope sustains people through captivity and crisis, from the Stockdale Paradox to Sir Terry Waite’s agency in confinement, and preview Dr. Lucy Hone's reframe of resilience as steering through rather than bouncing back. A brief, grounded message closes for anyone in a hard season, with a request to share and stay connected.

• what the Stockdale paradox really means
• why deadline‑based optimism breaks people
• agency as daily practice under pressure
• sir Terry Waite’s memory and interior freedom
• resilience as steering through, not bouncing back
• pragmatism, optimism, and agency as core tools
• a preview of the conversation with dr Lucy Hone

See if you can think of one person who you think might find this helpful, who might need to hear about optimism and pragmatism and finding agency in dark times
Sign up to the Substack This Examined Life if you haven't done so already, where you can receive the newsletter and upcoming episodes and events, and leave a review on the podcast channel if you get the chance. Wherever you get your podcast, it really helps others to find it.


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SPEAKER_02:

I did have some suffering. Many people have suffered far more than myself, I have to admit. I was kept without books, papers, or companionship in often in the dark for five years, trained on the wall. I was tortured and I had a mock execution. I went through all that business. I survived that.

Kenny Primrose:

Jim Stockdale was the highest ranking American officer held in the Hanoi Hilton during the Vietnam War. When his plane was shot down over enemy territory in 1965, and he parachuted into that territory, knowing almost immediately that he might not be free for years. He was right. He would spend the next seven and a half years as a prisoner of war. Life in the camp was brutal. Prisoners were tortured. They were starved, isolated, and used as propaganda. There was no release date, no timeline, no certainty that they would ever be released or that they would survive it. Years later, after his release, he was asked by an interviewer a question that maybe seems almost naive. Who didn't make it out? Stockdale answered without hesitation. The optimists. The interviewer was startled. Surely optimism was a good thing. It was a necessary thing, Stockdale explained. The optimists were those who said, We'll be out by Christmas. And when Christmas came and went, they said, Well then Easter. And when that passed, it was Thanksgiving. And when that passed, it was next Christmas. Each time their hope was tied to a specific fantasy, and each time reality crushed it. Eventually many of them broke. Not because they lacked hope, but because their hope was conditional, and it was repeatedly disappointed. Stockdale survived because he refused that kind of optimism. But, and this is the crucial point, he was not a pessimist either. He held two beliefs at the same time, and he never confused them. On one hand, he never lost faith that he would eventually get out, and not just survive, but prevail. He believed his life would have meaning again and that this ordeal would not be the final word on who he was. On the other hand, he confronted the brutal fact of his situation daily. He knew this could take years. There is no deadline. This is going to be unimaginably hard. No one is coming to save us next week. He didn't sugarcoat reality. He organized secret communication networks, developed codes to resist propaganda, and even injured himself deliberately at times to avoid being paraded on camera. This was not positive thinking, it was disciplined realism, it was pragmatism. Years later, business thinker Jim Collins named this tension the Stockdale Paradox. It's about retaining absolute faith that you will prevail in the end while at the same time confronting the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. Not blind hope, not despair, but hard, steady, almost defined hope that doesn't depend on timelines or comforting stories. Stockdale didn't survive because he believed things would be easy or quick. He survived because he believed they were meaningful, and because he faced how hard they truly were. That paradox made all the difference. The voice you heard at the start of this episode was that of Sir Terry Waite. He was held hostage for five years by Hezbollah and has done incredible work in the second half of his life. In his confinement, with all his freedoms taken away from him, he still retained a sense of agency. I had the privilege of speaking to Sir Terry a few years ago, and he had this startling memory.

SPEAKER_02:

When I was taken and told I had five hours to live to be executed, I said to my soul for three very simple things. You have to prove it. You've tried.

Kenny Primrose:

In this brief examined life episode, we're leaning into what makes those times survivable. What is the disposition and the ingredients of resilience? For the forthcoming season, I've had a conversation with the resilience expert, Dr. Lucy Hoon, who knows the idea of resilience both professionally and very much personally. As you'll hear in due course when the conversation drops. In the meantime, let me play you a clip from our conversation.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, the first thing I don't like is the most common definition of resilience as bouncing back. Because I don't know about your listeners and you, Kenny, but when I have gone through the hardest days of my life, I didn't feel bouncy. I felt devastated. I felt sad and anxious and exhausted, depleted, overwhelmed. I mean, you know, so yes, we got through those years, but I would say, firstly, it's you don't feel bouncy and you don't go back. These big events of our lives shape us. They maul our whole core beliefs and our internal operating systems and our relationships so that we are changed. You don't go back to where you were. So I guess my definition is something along the lines of steering through. You know, honestly, sometimes it feels like you're crawling through quicksand, but you keep on going in tiny acts of bravery every day, just finding what works for you so that you can keep going and know and never give up hope. Know that eventually there will be better days ahead. So, you know, pragmatism, optimism, and agency, I think, really are key because I'm not one of those sort of sugarcoating, positive thinking, happiology people. I'm like, you've got to be really truthful and pragmatic with the fact that what you're up against in these life moments is a lot. You know, this is a tough situation, you need to be telling yourself. But I never lose hope that I can do things and find my way through this.

Kenny Primrose:

I personally found my conversation with Lucy uplifting and incredibly helpful, and I'm looking forward to sharing it with you all. In the meantime, I'm putting this brief episode out there for any of you who are currently in the valley. January is a hard month, and you might be going through a hard season. So let me finish today with a call to action. See if you can think of one person who you think might find this helpful, who might need to hear about optimism and pragmatism and finding agency in dark times. This brief episode was made for them. As ever, do please reach out and say hello. Sign up to the Substack This Examined Life if you haven't done so already, where you can receive the newsletter and upcoming episodes and events, and leave a review on the podcast channel if you get the chance. Wherever you get your podcast, it really helps others to find it. That's all from me today. I wish you realistic optimism, pragmatism to get through the days, along with a sense of agency. The music you heard in the background of this episode was from Moby Kratis. Thank you for listening.