DADHOOD

The Hidden Barriers to Celebrating Success

• Thomas McMinn / Frankie Corrigan • Episode 87

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In this episode Frankie and Thomas explore the psychology behind celebrating wins, the challenges men face in fully embracing success, and practical ways to shift mindset for greater fulfillment.

Key  topics

  • The emotional disconnect after achieving big wins
  • The societal and self-imposed barriers to celebration
  • Practical strategies to embrace and celebrate success
  • The impact of mindset on happiness and fulfillment

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
01:03 Exploring the Nature of Celebrating Wins
03:44 Understanding Emotional Responses to Success
06:36 The Challenge of Celebrating Personal Achievements
09:17 Defining Celebration and Its Importance
12:23 Setting Up Future Generations for Success
14:07 Celebrating Children's Achievements
17:00 The Importance of Internal Validation
18:19 Downplaying Personal Achievements
20:50 The Pressure of Performance
24:52 Discipline and Consistency in Life
28:58 Overcoming Personal Hurdles
32:45 The Drive to Succeed

Resources

Therapist Melissa
Child Therapist Tommy Ash
The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle 






SPEAKER_02

Kind of like that. That sounds nice, dude. Sounds really good. Hey, welcome to the dadhood podcast.

SPEAKER_03

Welcome.

SPEAKER_02

So this is uh a friend of ours, more of a friend of yours, and then I met Zach through you guys.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So this he's uh he's a DJ.

SPEAKER_03

He is, goes by zebra. I didn't know that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

DJ Zebra? DJ Zebra. And this is like his original kind of feature. Original.

SPEAKER_03

I thought he did for dadhood. Oh, he did that specifically for this? This specifically for dadhood.

SPEAKER_02

I like it. Yeah. We'll have to put his information kind of where people can find him and all over Spotify and stuff, I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. We'll tag him in the description of this episode. I love it. People can check him out.

SPEAKER_02

That sounded good.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it did.

SPEAKER_02

So how you doing?

SPEAKER_03

Doing well. How about yourself?

SPEAKER_02

Doing good. So we wanted to, I guess, start off the show something fresh. And I think a lot of people can relate to this, but that is why is it, and I think I'm for the most part pretty good when there's a win in life, right? Sure. But for some reason, and this is like we were talking about this yesterday over coffee. Like recently, we've had some pretty big wins, I think, personally in our family. Financial wins. Yes. Where things, you know, paying off things.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Things that have been in the works for a long time and are now kind of paying off.

SPEAKER_02

Right. And they're and they're paying, yeah, like paid in full.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

And what is it about like that sort of thing? And we we were kind of questioning each other and kind of picking each other's brains, and and you kind of helped maybe frame it a little differently for me, because there's been a couple of big big things where we've paid some things off, and it feels good, but for whatever reason, I can't revel in it. So I'm yeah, I'm excited. Not exact I don't even say. It's not even excitement, right?

SPEAKER_03

If we really break it down, it's almost like you know that you should be excited. But why can't I get there? Your feelings don't match where your mind maybe wants you to be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Right? And and and why why isn't it okay to to be there? Not to to hang out there for a long time, but to just be there and celebrate the win. I can't, I don't know. I I feel good about what we've done, but then that's kind of the extent of it.

SPEAKER_03

Right? It's weird. It is so weird. And you and I are same so similar when it comes to this. I was even reflecting on it more when I got home. Is this a predominant thing for like men in general? I don't believe you and I are the only ones that go through this, but I was like, do men hold back more on their win celebrations than women, or is this just a personality thing?

SPEAKER_02

I don't know. That's a good question. And I've been really trying to since our conversation, and before that, this is something that I'm very aware of this feeling because I've had this feeling in the past, like a couple of years ago, had another real you know, a a good thing where we paid some some debt off, and it was the same thing. I mean, it was a big, a big win if you look at it, but that was the extent of it. Just saying it was like, yeah, it's a big win. Okay, on to the next thing. And didn't really revel in it even for even for a couple of days, didn't where you would think, yeah, let's celebrate it. Let's let's let's be proud of the accomplishment. But for some reason, I don't know if it's it's gotta be, I think, on some level self-inflicted.

SPEAKER_03

Definitely. Definitely, because there's probably an association with but what next? Yeah. But what next, right?

SPEAKER_01

And I think that's what it is.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, we can't just be here and be excited for this moment. There's gotta be some something else.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

We talked yesterday about maybe there's this notion that when's the other shoe gonna drop. Right. Right? Like if I if I'm put too much energy into being excited and grateful, then maybe something's gonna come and pull that out. It's like that Murphy's law. I don't believe that that's really what's gonna happen. I don't think so either. Yeah, you know, another another way of maybe looking at it is this concept that in our minds, we have a version of celebration. What does celebration, what does a win, right? You see a uh championship game and they're all dumping Gatorade on each other and cheering. It's like, what version of that do we have in our lives? And do the people closest to us, aka our spouses, our children, they're not dumping Gatorade.

SPEAKER_02

No, that would be nice, right? I guess that's what we should have. That's hilarious. That's pretty good. And then I'd be like, there's Gatorade all over the kitchen floor. Clean this crap up. It's gonna get sticky. Yeah, I don't know. Like I said, we I've thought about this before. We were catching up yesterday over coffee and really picking it apart, and I've thought about it since then. And I guess to an extent I'm at a loss. I don't know. I and I'm sure it's this is stuff that I need to have a talk, like with this when we were talking about therapists and yeah, and and this Sandra who we uh you had a chance to talk to. No, I never talked to her. Okay, I couldn't remember. I reached out, yeah. And she ended up retiring, and she's somebody that was very special in my life, but she referred us to somebody else that you've since started seeing. Yeah, and she's amazing. It's not I can't wait to talk to her. But maybe this is a question when I do schedule something with Melissa that I don't know what what it is. And it's not like I'm walking around like Eeyore or anything. I I just can't I can't get to a point where I'm like, that's this is fucking awesome.

SPEAKER_03

Well, do you kind of feel like you're ripping yourself off in a sense, like you're taking you're taking away from your own joy. Yeah. And you're like, why am I doing this?

SPEAKER_02

And I know that I'm doing it, but why you can't get to this place of yeah, and and we were also talking about this because okay, so there's that, and then there's other things that are happening right now that are that are just kind of moving part. So I guess to get to because one you know, one big win, we were talking about that, and then there's another one that's like it's in the works. So that is a it's a property that's for sale, and there's a you know, so it's a lot of stuff right now where it's a rental place that we have, yeah, and this is and it's in a different state. And I kind of made a post about this talking about the things that are out of my control and have been really good in the last, it's been over a month, probably five weeks that I've been dealing with this, maybe six weeks, and that is the unit above this condo, it leaked into the bathroom, and and this is all like when my tenant was moving out, a new tenant moves in from California. She's been out without a bathroom for over a week, coming up on let's see, Tuesday of next week will be two weeks without a bathroom. It's finally getting started today because of permits and and and management, you know, uh condo association, it's all this BS. It's in insurance adjusters. But so I've been really good about handling that, realizing I can't control any of it other than following up, email, text. And once it's out there, and once I do that, I can't control anything from that point.

SPEAKER_00

Sure.

SPEAKER_02

So I've been really good with that. So finally, everything, and I knew it would all work out. So maybe that's part of where it's feeling watered down, but it's in motion now. And you know, we've got so we're selling this, and it looks like it's gonna close mid-April. Everything seems to be falling into place, but for some reason I still and I and I know I shouldn't say I know, but when I get even when it closes, I'm gonna be like this. Okay, so what next?

SPEAKER_03

I'm laughing because I know mid-April.

SPEAKER_02

I'm gonna be the same. I'm not gonna be any different. What the f why can't I get to that? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know. And and I'm a happy guy.

SPEAKER_02

Like I've been in the last three years, I've completely changed my perspective, my lens. So it's not like um, again, I'm not Eeyore walking around like, ooh, I'm not uh that dude, but for some reason with this stuff, I can't just get excited like I should. And you're the same way.

SPEAKER_03

So I'm dude. I'm like, I am. I know I'm pot over here calling the kettle black. Like, like kind of helped me see it differently, isn't it? A little bit. Well, we talked about this notion of addressing yourself, like taking a moment to visualize yourself in in that win and not giving yourself that space also to celebrate it. And we have to really dive into what does celebration look like? Because I don't think you and I clearly defined it. We talked a little bit yesterday about like, is that our our family telling us good job? Is it I I don't know. Is it are we expecting some big celebratory thing to happen and they just don't show up that way?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, because we don't even know what we don't even know what that yeah, like it's not fair to them to say that because we don't know what what like you said, I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_02

Maybe it is Gatorade over the over the back in the kitchen uh on the driveway. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You know what was really cool about that though? It made me start thinking about how do I show up for the people close to me when they have a win. Am I celebrating enough for them? Like making them understand how big that is. Yeah. You know, or a lot of people, I think also it's not that they don't want to recognize somebody else's success, but I think it really makes them focus on their own lives. True. And maybe they're not comfortable with that the success of those around them.

SPEAKER_02

And it's not like I'm telling, but I'm not like you the it's a very small, you know, it's not like I'm going around telling you.

SPEAKER_03

No, it's a very small group. But the thing is, it's like if you knew how pumped I was for you, no, I couldn't. And I and I felt it. No, I I totally got it. Dude, I'm bringing Gatorade next time to hell with this. Right in the parking lot.

SPEAKER_02

And we were just talking about like, you know, trying to set our, you know, our families up like for the future and just kind of you know getting everything in order, and we're very similar with what we're doing and what we've done. So I think that's really a lot of parallels going on for sure. And and I've got another buddy who's kind of the same, like we're just the same thing. Yeah. Setting the family up, right? Sure. So so I I know that there's the ex I can feel it when you're like, I'm excited, because I like when you share something with me, I'm like, dude, fucking A. Yeah. Same thing. Like, I am so proud. I don't know what it is that I that I feel like I need. And then, like you said, if we don't even know what it is and how to celebrate, so what would that look like to our spouses or other people that are close to us? Like, what would we expect if we don't even know what that is?

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely. Like we have to dive into that and figure it out. I don't know because it is though. It's so weird how deep, though, I feel like I will go the opposite direction. And when things are going awry, like I'm feeling that big time, like the stress and all of that. You're just feeling that, and I'm almost wanting that same extent, but the other way, yeah. Match the feeling of that, the flip side of it. I want the joy and the euphoric element of it to match those other, like the stresses or that weight, right?

SPEAKER_02

And that's a great way of breaking that down because if you think about it, like when you're talking about the flip side, so when you feel, and this is something that's always worse in our heads than it actually is. So when it's the flip side of like, oh, you get hit by a big payment or a big whatever it is, like big something where money's going out, and we kind of flip out over that, right? And you fixate over that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Even though in the grand scheme of it, you're like, okay, we're still gonna be okay, and we're fortunate that we're gonna be okay. Yes, but you still you it festers, and yeah, if you could take that, all that energy, that bad energy that's going into that, I don't know, it's a two thousand dollar like shit.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, like I got it. Water healer just went out. Oh crap. Like those kind of things that you're like, AC unit.

SPEAKER_02

So that kind of stuff. And like, thank God we had it, but we had to dip into savings, but we had it. Yeah. And if if we took that energy where we're kind of just that's really weighing on us for a couple, like maybe a couple few weeks, yeah, from trying to be and trying to frame it like it's okay, but you still are like festering. If we took that and flipped it around for something good, maybe that you know, you have a nice couple of weeks of woo-hoo, that's I know in a little attaboy, a little pat on the back and enjoy it, and then you're on to the next thing. Instead of, okay. Yeah, now what? All right, cool. I I don't know, and I'm sure it's gotta be relatable to people, like where you're you know, it's like paying off vehicle and you're like, that was that's huge. Yeah, absolutely. Frees up money where you can put that into an account and have you know, like keep putting that same amount in there and then just build up a little savings for something or whatever. Whatever you got money to to play with or invest or save up for another car in the next five or six years.

SPEAKER_03

And maybe because a lot of times when we do those things, we believe now we're gonna have an abundance of of like capital. Yeah, but then something else always does tend to come up. Right. Right? So maybe it's that pattern over time that people are just like, uh, it's a it's a it's a day, it's a moment win, but tomorrow, right, right, AC might go out. I don't I don't know. Definitely would love to live in those wins for longer moments.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And I don't know, I don't know. Just trying to think, and and does it have to do because I, you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

Maybe maybe there's something about also when you're going through something. Um, you're talking about like AC units going out of your place, your ma's place. There's a lot of reminders constantly of that of that happening. So there's in the moment, there's dealing with the contractor, the AC specialist, you know, you have all of these interactions that are bringing you back to more money's going out, this is out, this is happening. But when you have the win, it's like, here's a here's a piece of paper that says you did it. Yeah. And you're like, that's great. Yeah. But tomorrow we're not going to remind you that you did it. It's something good to talk about, though. Yeah. Just to kind of think about it. Cool to think about how do we set that up for our kids too. Yeah. Without inf like overinflating too, because I think that can go the other way really quick.

SPEAKER_02

Well, yeah, and overinflating and then and and and without projecting. I got to be careful of my own BS. That's anytime I have conversations with Axel, I just I gotta make sure, like as I'm what I'm saying, making sure it's not coming from from whether it's an insecurity or it's a lesson or what you know, like trying trying to project something, other than just kind of trying to lay it out for what it is.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And then maybe there is a teaching moment, but I'm trying not to put my own attach my own bullshit onto it. Yeah. That's a hard thing for me. I've been really aware of that, but it's easier said than done.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, dude. I'm depending on preaching. Right? I preach all the time to him. And I mentioned that with that McTruth moment. Yeah. Yeah. Everything doesn't have to be a lesson, Dad. Thanks, buddy. You're like, you're right. It doesn't. You don't, but let me tell you about that's exactly it followed. And then he just comes back with, no, no, no, no, no, but I'm like, oh no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a moment where a lesson's coming back. Um, it's interesting with the whole celebrating your your children's victories. Because what would in your eyes, what would be a reason to celebrate with them? Because there's a lot of things they do that maybe we're like proud of, but if we were to make them a big deal, we're taking away that moment for them.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Right? So it's like, what what would Axel do that you'd be like, this is worth like celebrating?

SPEAKER_01

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

Because maybe that goes back to is what I did worth celebrating if nobody else thinks it is, but maybe it's not.

SPEAKER_02

I gotta really dig on this and figure it out because it's it's it's it's bothering me the fact that I can't get to that that place.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well, it's really interesting too, because there's a lot of psychology behind if you celebrate for your kids' achievements, it takes away like it takes away from them because you're almost taking in their eyes credit for they're the ones that won or like made the goal in the game, or they're the ones that you know got the high score on the test or something. You didn't get that for them.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So if you're like you make it a big deal, like, oh my gosh, congratulations, all this, like I'm that's it, that's where it is. I'm so proud of you. Yeah. Now you're taking away like their hard work, and maybe we're looking for it even in ourselves, or we wish someone would have said that to us more.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I'm like proud of you. As fathers and I do the exact same thing. Man, I was really proud of what your teacher was saying about you. But maybe he's maybe they're not. Maybe they're just like, but that's just me being who I am. It's just so fascinating because I think it goes back to what we were just talking about, this whole being proud of ourselves in these moments. Like, why can't we be?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Why can't we be? Are we the things that we're saying to our kids? Are we setting them up for that same lifestyle later on?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah. Cause I'm trying to change the the verbiage with that. You know, I don't want him to be looking for the external validation. I want him to be able to internally go, I I did this. Yes, this is me. And and we try, you know, like we're definitely trying to shift that. When we say, like, if he gets, you know, like when he got one goal this season, and you know, we're just we were proud, but we and I but I said to him, like, dude, how proud of yourself are you? Like, that is amazing. And he was. I wonder though, because here I'm saying I can't get to a certain place. Yeah, you wonder what you're passing on to them that they're gonna grow up to be the same damn thing, where yeah, it's like it's a huge achievement, and they can't even take a moment or a day or a week and just be like, Yeah, that was that was really cool. And it doesn't mean you have to go around with balloons and like strutting around the neighborhood, but just to kind of revel in it and and really give yourself a pat on the back, like that was that was a great achievement.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's so weird.

SPEAKER_02

That's something that I yeah, I would love to delve into this with uh with we're gonna have we're gonna get someone on the show.

SPEAKER_03

We're gonna get someone on the show that can talk to us about this.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and there's this guy, his name is Tommy, Tommy Ash, and he's a child therapist. I'm gonna see if we can get him on because this would be a great thing to talk about as far as making sure that we're not projecting, like we can't even get to a moment of being proud of ourselves. Yeah. I want to make sure that you know, when we're ra like when I'm raising or we're we're raising Axel, he's able to internally be proud, and it's not he's not looking for that external val validation. Because that's what I think is a lot of people are walking around, oh my god, especially with social media looking, you know, posting stuff like you know, like me, like me. Yeah, you see me, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I'm I'm important. I'm important. I'm here, I'm here.

SPEAKER_02

It's like we yeah, I realize that.

SPEAKER_03

And like reflecting back, I only think there was a handful of times I've heard either one of my boys say, I was really proud of myself. Like, not for something Katie and I, we weren't even talking about it. Like they did something and then they came and said, I was really proud of myself.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I remember thinking, that's awesome. Yeah. Like that's really cool. That's great insight. Yeah? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And actually, he's you're that's I'm glad you said that because the other day he was doing some, he was practicing in the garage, some hockey stuff, like doing some just some drills and stuff, the things that he made up, and he was proud that he did this and showed me, and he said that. He's like, Look at look at how look at how well I'm doing this. I'm like, that is that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03

Do you ever find yourself downplaying your achievements?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why that is. Yeah, and it's I think it speaks to exactly what we're talking about. Like what there's something behind that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like, what what's the deal with this?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I was watching a video of my last like level test at Taekwondo, and at the breaking techniques, I'm doing breaks that I know the majority of not even the younger guys, but definitely guys my age aren't doing, right? And I'm watching my body language in it. I'm like, I have such a reaction after doing these breaks. Wow. And I would thought about that. I was like, was I doing that in order to make it seem like it's not such a big deal for those around? Or were you really feeling it? Or am I just like, uh, I'm just putting on a performance and it's not a big deal.

SPEAKER_02

Could you go back when you're watching that video? Could you go back to that and and be able to tell or no?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I'm like, I'm watching it and I'm like, okay, take yourself out of context, which is weird because you're watching a video of yourself. And I'm like, you have a very, it's not even a cocky disposition. It's almost like a matter of fact, like, do I have to be doing this kind of look on your face? It's a big deal in the moment. And I understand, like when I'm watching, I'm like, that was an awesome kick. But my body language is taking away from it.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so here's something, and I I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you a question about this because we've talked about this before, and we're talking about taekwondo, black belt. I mean, this is how many, how many black belts do you have?

SPEAKER_03

Like yeah, so I'm at my second dawn right now, going for my third degree. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_02

I just wanted to give it some context for people that might not be in that world, sure. A lot of people aren't, because I did I I you know, we were in it for a minute with Axel, and I still don't know. Yeah, like when you tell me certain things, I have to ask, I'm sorry, like over and over, like, what is that again? Like, I mean, it's a great organization there.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

World martial arts. They're they're amazing, amazing family. But we had mentioned this or talked about this before because you do so well, yeah, like in your family, like does, and you guys are just killing it as a family. Sure. But you specifically, because you are amazing at what you do, they use you as an example to the class.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And we've talked about this, kind of talked through some of this, and there's been moments where you say that like when you're testing, they're using you as an example. And you've said, like, I feel like it's almost in a sense, like, like I'm not coming at them, but like we're it's maybe a dog and pony show.

SPEAKER_03

Here, here we go. So I I do feel the dog and pony show. And I also feel like I underplay my capabilities there. So why is that? So why are you holding Back. I know that there's a there's the people-pleasing side of me. I want everybody in the room to feel comfortable. Okay. Okay, I I do. I and I know this about myself. I like when people, I like the energy to be good. I like people to feel good. So you're thinking if you go too hard? If I go so hard, yeah, I'm like, I know I'm gonna make a lot of people in this room feel inadequate about their capabilities in Taekwondo.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, interesting.

SPEAKER_03

Especially like the other dads that are there, yeah, that are my age when I can do things I know they're not even near capable of doing.

SPEAKER_02

Well, then that's not cool to yourself. I know hold that.

SPEAKER_03

Dude, if you if you watch, I'm gonna play this clip for you. Maybe we'll even like tie it somehow to the video or to this audio so people can see. If you watch my last breaking, yeah, I was upset at there were two things. The kicks were really easy for me. The first two. The second one I did just because a lot of even the 20-year-olds can't do this kick. And I wanted to show like you can do it. Yeah, but I was very much so like after again, not like stoked about it. They took away one of the required kicks for the black belts because too many people weren't capable of doing it. And this is a very easy kick for me to do. Like, I was doing five in a row and they were requiring three in a row, and people weren't able to do it at this level. And I get upset because I'm like, I feel like this is the American, like kind of dumbed lazy, yeah, like, oh well, you showed up, so you're gonna pass a test, and that kind of stuff irks me. Yeah, I'm like, I want to know that I've earned it, and everybody else that's at my level has earned it. Yeah, right. I'm this is going deep into a different direction, but I think because of that, I was just like, Oh, here we go. Let's let's show them another or do another kick that really doesn't take too much skill.

SPEAKER_02

That nobody's gonna do anyway because they took it. That's the one that they took off, right? Or that's the one that said it was too difficult. They took so maybe there's some of that, like, I'm doing this, but why can't anybody else or why No, the first kick is the one that they've replaced with it.

SPEAKER_03

So that's the one where you really see me like I'm just like, I go boom boom, and I like walk off, and my head's almost down. I'm like, this is ridiculous, dude. The funny thing is, and I hope Katie's listen listens to this episode, Katie gets upset at me when I talk like this because she goes, It's not fair for you to say these things because for you it's easy, but for others it's not. I totally understand that. Not everybody's built the same, not everybody has the same capabilities. But when you're talking about hitting this degree, this level within any sport, it is a good one. To me, this is equivalent to being like at a professional level in the sport that I do, which is Taekwondo. If you're going to get that level and have that respect where other people at the dojong have to bow to you, I mean it's very it's a respect thing, right? Yeah, it's kind of like military ranking in a sense. But I feel like you should have a strong foundation. While I'm saying that, I'm also seeing envisioning people at the dojong that I'm like, I don't think physically they would ever be able to do certain things. And so my heart like goes out to them. And at the same time, I there's this inner like battle that goes, yeah, because I don't feel like I have to push myself at taekwondo, and it feels like another area maybe in life where I'm like, uh just kind of show up with 75% and that's good enough.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and it's actually great. And you could I mean you could do better, but like because you're holding back, yeah, but which is crazy.

SPEAKER_03

There's a side of me that's like, again, maybe, and this is totally going back to childhood things, but there's a side of me that's like, can somebody push me? Damn it. Can somebody actually show up and be like, this isn't enough? You're not doing enough. I need you to go harder.

SPEAKER_02

Just because I feel like that somebody is you, though. You think about it.

SPEAKER_03

You're the one that's- Well, I needed to be that somewhere, yeah. Yeah, I totally're the one that's holding you back, and it's but it's fascinating, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Well, this is kind of kind of a deep, crazy.

SPEAKER_03

It is. I didn't know we were gonna go there with Taekwondo. Twisty, yeah. Yeah, Taekwondo sets me off. That gets me fired up, dude. I love it.

SPEAKER_02

I love it. Yeah, you gotta, you kind of gotta delve into that and figure out. I mean, obviously, it all, like you said, goes back to to childhood.

SPEAKER_03

Well, what's okay? So let's like let's dive in a little bit. What would be your equivalent to the taekwondo that like you don't really tolerate the fact that maybe others aren't showing up the way that you showed up, and maybe that's even was from your professional career. I mean, you took it very serious. You were at a very high level in it. I mean, the top level that you can be in. And I'm sure there's people that showed up, and you're just like, dude, this isn't this isn't enough. We've made it, and you're showing up like we're an amateur hour still.

SPEAKER_02

Like I never thought of that, but yeah, I guess it would probably be just discipl. I was disciplined in different ways, and it and it's discipline, no question, and consistency. Yeah, consistently consistent.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And I think that's where, and this is kind of the thing. Like, I I do feel, and here's some of that, maybe that self-loathing. I feel like I've got talent, but I and I I really truly feel like it's not anywhere near what I've seen and witnessed as I kind of came up through the career. Like I would look at and see other people like, man, they are so like just talented, talented, and they don't do anything with it. They don't try. And I feel like any type of success that I or we've had in the past in my career was me having to almost like going back to like school. Like, if I really wanted to get that grade, I had to do the extra credit. Sure. I had to try, try, try.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And I felt like even in in that career, I mean, I had to really just hunker down and discipline and consistency and sho just shoot literally, sho literally and figuratively showing up every day, whether you were not feeling it or you know, you know you're feeling like shit or whatever, kind of, and that's and maybe that's not a good mode to be in, because I mean ultimately it can break you, but and mentally and physically, but you know, that that is powering through. Like if you're sick, it's like, you know what, it's only a four-hour shift, even though it's longer than that when you're getting there early, and but it's not that long. I'll just power through. But I think to an extent, that is that's maybe my superpower or was my superpower, maybe still is too.

SPEAKER_03

I still think it is.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, just that consistency in being disciplined and just taking it seriously. Like if you're gonna, if you're gonna do a podcast using that as an example, and if you're gonna drop an episode once a week, you drop it once a week. If you're gonna do it on a certain day, you do it on a certain day.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. Dude, you know you are the one that helped me the most with that, which is so funny. I had to be in my 40s for my friend to be able to be like, it's just that. And I think you bring that constantly. It's just you just show up, you just keep doing it, and not for what the result's gonna be, you just keep showing up. Yeah, and you put it in over time, it becomes just second nature, becomes that thing, right?

SPEAKER_02

It's just that it's funny because if you think about it, because you have rubbed off on me the same way, and we're talking about discipline. So you're disciplined in so many areas, like right, financially, like with your taekwondo, physically, you know, you're disciplined in that. I've learned a lot since we've been friends, sure. And I've been a little bit more and a lot more engaged with certain things. So I think it's kind of neat how we complement each other, but it's the same thing, it's just but it's the same concept, yeah. Consistent, discipline, it's just in a different area, yeah, working a different type of a muscle. And before you know it, it's second nature.

SPEAKER_03

So, how did you do that? How did you overcome with schooling in general when you talked about, you know, maybe not feeling like you're doing the best in school, but again, is it the mental grit of just pushing yourself through it? I mean, there's something about that because I think I took it in a different direction. When I was shut down in school, I took it as, well, the hell with you guys, and I just don't care.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I almost like used it as a well, I'm not gonna put in full effort when it comes to stuff like that. When it seems like you received similar messaging growing up through it, but you're like, But the reality is I'm just gonna outwork, outwork it all. You might have more talent, you might be smarter, but I'll outwork you. Did you have a pivotal moment where that was like an aha thing, or do you think that's just part of your DNA?

SPEAKER_02

Like what I just I think I at an early age, I knew grow so like a little context. I've mentioned my I think I've mentioned on this show, my I've got an older brother, he's five years older. And that that's something, I mean, I don't want to like get weigh into that, but my brother, he's on a different plane as far as being cerebral. He's always been, he's brilliant. And I remember he's like I said, five years older. So I'd be, you know, six, seven years old, and he's like 11, 12, and always in a book, the knowledge that he had. And I remember like growing up, almost like in his shadow, like when I went into high school, and at that point he had graduated high school. I'd have teachers that had him, and they were like, Oh, he was such a great student. And he was. I mean, he was very smart. And I just remember like I'm not that kid. And I remember I struggled, and I've mentioned this, and I think not to kind of go off all these different tangents, but I do think there's something with me as a teenager, a young teenager, probably 14, when I started drinking with friends. I do think there's something that messed my brain development up, drinking at a young age, where it made it harder for me to learn. So I think that, and I didn't make that connection until later in life, but I struggled in school. I mean, I did struggle as a kid in elementary school, but when I got into high school, and then I think there was that inferiority complex that I had with my brother. So it all kind of like, I was like, I'm never gonna be like studious, yeah, cerebral. That's just not me. I think at one my dad somehow planted the seed of radio, and then at a young age, like 14 or 15, I knew I wanted to go into that. And we had a broadcasting school in Detroit. I got excited about it, so then I couldn't wait to graduate to get that going. So I knew though, even then, at the end of my, and it was only like an eight-month school. I mean, that's you basically just get your feet wet. Sure. It helps you get your foot in the door, and you can pick at the end, like you whether you want to do TV or radio, because you do both throughout the class. And I remember because I've mentioned this before, I was not the kid that could get up in front of the class. We didn't have, I think we had a drama department and there were just a handful of kids in that, and that was not me. I couldn't even do like announcements on the PA. I couldn't get up and do like an oral book report. I could, but I would freak out and stress about it for like however many months that I knew it was the exactly. So I was not that kid at all. So when I went to broadcasting school, I knew that I had some big personal hurdles to get over. If I want to do this as a career, which I did. So when I graduated from that Spex Howard, I remember I got like most improved, or I don't know, something along those lines, and I got like this, you know, Specs Howard mug that they gave me as like, you got the most improved, and yeah, started with the small gigs and kind of going all around the country and everything in these small little markets. But yeah, I just I kind of in my head was like, this is something that I loved. I again, I didn't feel like I'd see all these people that were my age or even younger at the time, like, man, they're so talented. I knew I had talent. I just knew that I had to work harder. If I just show up, I'm consistent, I'm disciplined. And I think that might have been from the upbringing of my mom and dad. They were very disciplined in work. It's almost like this because I said I would, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

It's that. I've got the shirt that says because I said I would. Yes. It's it's your word. That's everything. And that goes with everything personal relationships, work relationships. If I say I'm gonna do something or I'm gonna be somewhere, I'm gonna be somewhere and I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_03

For sure.

SPEAKER_02

And then I think that was the mentality going into that business and just knowing that if I wanted to amount to anything, I need to, I need to show up, be consistent. I feel like I'm downplaying and maybe selling myself short that I had to just try harder. Some elements came easy, but a lot of it didn't.

SPEAKER_03

But isn't it so fascinating how many individuals we come across that are like so cerebral or so talented, and there's just nothing there. They haven't put in the work, they haven't consistently showed up. So it's true. It's like showing up is really half the battle.

SPEAKER_02

That's it. It's just consistency, and that is something too. And then going back to, and I love my brother, but he's in that he's finally, I think, found something that he's working towards. I feel like his biggest cheerleader, like he'd wanted he wanted to be a writer, and that was why he moved out to New York from Detroit. And I remember at a young age when I was in Jacksonville on the morning show down there working radio, it's like 93, 94, and I read some stuff. He let me read some things that he was writing, and he's just brilliant. And I was like, dude, dude, you have to do like you have to, you're gonna have no's. And at that point in my career, I had so many no's. Yeah, but it was all it takes is that one yes, and especially if you create the opportunity of like, I'm not accepting no. Yes. And I talked my way into jobs like that. Look, like, look, if from Detroit down to Fort Myers or to Jacksonville, I'm like, I'm gonna be in Fort Myers this weekend. I'm gonna fly down to see a friend. Let me drive five hours to Jacksonville to meet you. Yes, don't shut me down. And then that was how I talked my way into the Jacksonville gig. Sure. The program director's like, as long as you're flying down to Fort Myers to see your friend, you guys drive in on Sunday, Sunday night, I'll put you up at the beach. Let's do it. The comfort in at Jack's Beach, I'll meet with you Monday morning for an interview. I talked my way into it. I wasn't flying down to see my friend in Fort Myers. I literally hung up the phone with him and booked my very first flight. It was a charter airline, like I can't remember the airline, but it was like 145 bucks. But but that's my point. Like, I get upset when, like with my brother, and I'm like, you just gotta keep trying and don't take no for an answer.

SPEAKER_03

Because I think we we tend to go to it's a different time. You hear that all the time, oh yeah, but now it's a it's a different landscape. You have that there's that drive, there's that will. I'm willing to do what it takes to get it. Yeah, I think even right now would cut through because now nobody's doing it dominate. You would be at a different level right now. Absolutely. I think the majority are like, uh, they didn't respond. You're right.

SPEAKER_02

You'd be cream of the cream of the crop if you if you did that, because that is something that is just not you know, like you said, it's unheard of. It's yeah, it just doesn't happen as much anymore. It is so awesome. Who needs Melissa the therapist? No, I'm just kidding. We do, we do, yeah. I can't wait to to talk to her because especially break down some of the things that we're talking about. Like, why can't we celebrate the wins?

SPEAKER_03

Just gotta celebrate them.

SPEAKER_02

All right, so uh dadhood podcast available on Spotify and all the other platforms, right?

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely. Thanks for listening.