Why Dads Secretly Stress About Money

Almost every dad thinks about it. Few talk honestly about it.

In this episode of DADHOOD, Thomas and Frankie unpack the emotional side of money, financial stress, unexpected expenses, retirement anxiety, and the pressure many fathers feel to provide for their families.

From surprise insurance bills and car repairs to deeper conversations about scarcity, abundance, self-worth, and financial freedom, this episode explores why money often carries far more emotional weight than the actual dollar amount attached to it.

If you've ever laid awake worrying about finances, questioned whether you're doing enough, or felt the pressure of providing for your family, this conversation is for you.

We discuss:

•  Financial stress in fatherhood 
•  The emotional cost of money anxiety 
•  Scarcity vs abundance mindsets 
•  Retirement fears 
•  Building a healthy relationship with money 
•  Why more income doesn't always mean less stress 
•  The hidden currencies that matter most 

Because sometimes the biggest financial burden isn't the bill itself—it's the space it takes up in your mind.

CHAPTERS

00:00 – Welcome Back To Kiln
03:15 – Why DADHOOD Is About Evolving Out Loud
07:20 – The Money Conversation Starts
11:42 – Paying Off a House Changes Everything
16:30 – When Unexpected Bills Hit
21:10 – The Emotional Weight of Financial Stress
25:35 – Money as Energy: A Different Perspective
30:08 – Why Financial Anxiety Never Fully Goes Away
35:15 – The Cost of Worrying About Money
39:48 – Scarcity vs Abundance Mindsets
44:20 – Retirement, Wealth, and What Really Matters
49:10 – How Society Shapes Our Relationship With Money
54:45 – The Currency That Matters Most
59:18 – Financial Stress and Family Impact
1:03:42 – Building a Healthier Relationship With Money
1:08:55 – DADHOOD Community Updates & Events

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Yo, what's going on? What's up, buddy? Welcome to the Dad Hood Podcast. My name is Frankie. And I'm Thomas. And welcome to the Dad Hood Podcast. Like you just said, we're doing it live from uh we're not we're recording it live from the kiln space here in holiday.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Dude, I'm still digging it. This is their second time doing a recording from here and starting to get comfortable, man. A little too comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

It's gonna be a squatting issue. They're gonna have to physically remove us out of here.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

It's like good luck.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Yeah, yeah. No, it's really nice. And and we had mentioned this in the last episode. Uh, if you're looking to get a space, whether you need an office space, if you're just looking to be around people like you, what they've done with it, and like I said, we met Kristen for the first time. We were talking to her, and I saw this literally from when they started this to when they finished it, but then I didn't see the finished product until we did our first episode coming inside this building.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

And where I think the outside still looks cool. Oh, it's very industrial though. Yeah, yeah. But inside, the aesthetics are just it's so nice.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

It's pretty uh magical what they did with it because the outside does not do it justice.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Well, and it was cool, like you were saying, they have every size of office you would need. I mean, they have very large businesses that are taking up double spaces with multiple employees in them, and then they have other ones that are like little two, three people could be in the office, and then they have like recording booths that you can go into that are look they look like the old school phone booths. Yeah. You can go in and just have your Zoom meeting or whatever you're doing, or just be open, sit in the open area and have some nice coffee or kombucha and chill and meet cool people, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Do you need a big meeting room? I mean, some of the the meeting rooms they have, the spaces they're so cool, too. Whatever, yeah, whatever your needs are, they have it here. Whatever you're doing, they have I guarantee they have something for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Yeah, and I think you get a certain amount of credits when you sign up for your account. You get credits to get the meeting rooms, you get credits for printing. Wow. Do you see Beaumont was over here right in the lobby there? You can go. I don't know if you can use your credits for that or if that's a separate paying thing, but it's the food place? Yeah, the food place. Did I say it wrong? I think it isn't it Beaumont? Beaumont. I think Beaumont. Beaumont, but Beaumont Beaumont.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Yeah, whatever. But I didn't know they had so they that's their space in there?

SPEAKER_01 2:08

So that they have an extra cafe when we were walking around that area.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

That's them. Wow. Yeah, dude. How cool is that? Pretty neat. Yeah. All right. So we were kind of and we were just chatting with some people that came in and they wanted to look at the podcast space here, and they were just kind of looking at it because it looks like they might be doing a podcast sometime in the future here, or looking at, you know, kiln. And just talking about our our show and what we do, and we were like, and I know it's some other creators out there that say this, but we essentially evolve out loud.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

That's kind of what we do absolutely on a week, not just a weekly basis, but anytime you and I get together and we're hanging out, whether we're grabbing coffee, hanging out with our families, yeah, we're evolving out loud.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

A hundred percent. That's what we do. Yeah, because we just open it up, we just start the dialogue, and the coolest thing is we don't even know where it's gonna go, right? But it always leads somewhere where I would say more times than not, I leave with that aha moment. I'm like, man, that really was impactful. So I needed to hear that, or I needed to say that out loud, or just have space to be able to start unpacking it, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:08

So that is kind of the the nature of what we like with dadhood, the podcast. Yes, but I mean, and it goes beyond that with our friendship, which kind of giving you a little as we were driving here this morning. You were like, How you doing? I was like, Well, I kind of want to save it for the show, save it for the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

No, you're making me nervous, man.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

No, no, no, no. And it's it's nothing bad. It's just and it's stuff that we've talked about before, but it's we're not breaking up, are we?

SPEAKER_01 3:29

No.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Okay, okay. It's it's money, it's money.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

And it and just having Am I not bringing enough to the table?

SPEAKER_02 3:34

No, just having some things right now. Now, let me just I want to set this up with something that you told me, and it really changed my perspective on how I look at money and how I feel about money. So I think we've mentioned it on this show back in October of 2023. The two of us we did ayahuasca. Yes. And for me, I don't want to speak for you, but for me, it was life-changing, and it was something that I that called to me at that point in my life, and I knew I needed to do it and did it, and like it was a 180. It was just amazing, and I'm still withdrawing from that. Like it's just I still can feel, and it just changed my whole lens on everything. But when we were driving home that Sunday morning, so we did it on a Friday and a Saturday night.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

And and you were driving because I was not in the position to be driving. I was still kind of like out of it, remember? And I'm like, hey, will you can you drive?

SPEAKER_02 4:25

That's right. I do.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

I remember that.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Yeah. And we were on 215. Yes. And I can't remember what it was, but we were talking about money and what you said about money, again, it changed how I look at it and and feel about it. And you said, money's energy, it's it's energy. So it's got to flow. And you were talking about, you know, when you have money, so you got your savings, of course, you got your your emergency savings. But you know, people and and especially I I come from probably a long line of this. People in my family, not a lot of people had money, but the ones that did held on to it. It never left their bank account.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Well, and it makes sense because it feels like something that if I if I let go of it, it's not coming back. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

And it's terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

It is terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

But I remember you saying that it's this energy and it has to flow.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

It has to go out in order to come back in.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

And it it's like a a flip of a light switch went on when you said that. And from that point on, and and I've always had a, I think, a maybe a decent relationship with money. I guess there was some motivation with money, but it didn't consume me. But then it just changed my whole outlook when you said that. So I've been really good in the last three years, three plus years with how I look at it. And it really has helped me. I worry from time to time, but it doesn't consume me with that, you know, like uh, where you just get anxious. Sure. Right. But I'm in this right now where I'm I'm kind of struggling through it. I want to evolve out loud where it's just like a couple of things that I went to grab the mail the other day. Okay, I give you where I'm at. So went to grab the mail. I was like, oh, great, here's uh another insurance thing. And you know, like you don't know which one it is when you're opening up the yeah, because it's all under one umbrella with the different, you know, with the homeowners, the auto insurance. So I'm like, which one is this? Yeah, is this the smaller one, you know, or is this the big whammy or the the the big big whammy? So let me set this part up. So recently we paid off our home, which is good.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Which is amazing. Thank you. Amazing, dude.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Thank you. But that comes with, you know, the my mind goes to property taxes, they're no longer within the mortgage. So then you got to put that aside, which is all good because it's all about what we're talking about here. And then you've got the insurance, and I I forgot about the insurance aspect of that. So we paid it off a bit ago. I see the homeowner's insurance. I was like, what? It's like four thousand something dollars. I was like, are you kidding me? It kind of weighs on me for a minute, right? I just I and I'm out there playing with Axel, our boy. We're playing street hockey, and I, you know, I grabbed the mail and I was like, I'm not gonna let this hijack my thoughts, rent space in my head, but it's hard not to. Yeah, when it's it still did. Yeah, it totally still did. It's like I opened up a couple of apps and they're just running in the background, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:02

And you're trying to be in that moment, it's running hard in the background, it's draining the battery at a rapid speed, dude.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

And I've gotten really good over those years, though. Like to to to close those apps. I have. Okay. I've gotten really good at it. Sure. Like in something comes up and I'm just like, you know what? Hey man, I'm grateful that we have it. Sure. Or if I have to position or move some things around, and it might not be something that I like, I don't wanna, I don't want to write a check for this, or sure. But I have to. But I always go back to I'm just grateful that I have it to begin with. Exactly. Yeah. But this one is a little, it's been just, I don't know, weighing on me.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

So I was able to get through that afternoon, and then I emailed our insurance broker and I was like, hey, does this seem a little does it seem a little high? And I said, I realize we just paid off the house. So this is why all of a sudden, boom, it's coming directly as opposed to being where everything is all wrapped up in a payment. Okay, right after we paid the house off, I got like the escrow check for it was like 3,000 plus. Right. So put that aside. And I was kind of putting that aside for like, okay, in my head, I was like, that'll just go for the property taxes coming up. Sure. Right. So I put that in an account. So it kind of offset that. So it kind of took me down a little bit where I was like, okay, I wasn't as amped up, I wasn't as anxious when I when I was able to see, I guess, the the silver lining in that. So that's kind of let's put that over here. So then was it the day before yesterday? I'm driving in my car. I have like a sensor that goes off. And sometimes they go, they go on the little sensors, and sometimes you know that it's like there's nothing wrong with it. It just like it something tripped it. It says EPC in my dashboard. I'm like, what the hell is EPC? And then I see a flash that says something about the engine, you can't go beyond 3,000 RPMs. I'm like, what the hell was that? Literally, when that thing went off, and then I feel something mechanically in the car as I go to, and it's a six-speed manual. So as I go to put it in first, it just kind of like a lag and then it kicks back in. I was like, what the hell is happening? So we take it over to our friends at Cop McGarage, let me know, and I'm thinking, I'm putting it out in the universe, like this is, you know, hopefully it's not gonna be anything expensive.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

So then they came back and they're like, you gotta take it to the dealership. Probably gonna be anywhere from I know 1,500 to 2,500 bucks. And I was just like, oh my gosh, you're killing me. You know? So I haven't done anything with that yet. Gonna call our friend Josh over at VW Southtown and say, because I was talking about, I think I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna trade this in. So maybe this is maybe this is the sign, like, let's let's do it right now. Exactly. And then kind of be done with it. And maybe that's the silver lining in this.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

But yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

But this is something that we talk about a lot, and that is the money thing and the relationship that because everybody's relationship with money is different, but how it can it can rent space, right? Even if you have it, sometimes it feels like it's scarce. Yeah, right. So you have this scarcity kind of thing going on, this inner conflict, and I don't know. I just wanted to kind of talk through it. I think I'm I think I'm getting through it, but it doesn't take it away.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Doesn't take it away, doesn't take it away.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

And this is something I think everybody can relate to on some level. You got, you know, just when you think things are like, yeah, man, no pun intended, but you know, everything's hitting on all the cylinders, you know, this is good. And then all of a sudden, boom, there's a payment, right? Boom, there's another payment for this.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Yeah. Again, I think going back to just that aha moment, if we want to call it, after our little ayahuasca adventure, is it has to go out. It has to go out towards something. If it just sits in the account, right? It's a false sense of security in the account. I've played this out multiple times in my own head. It's like, okay, I have X in the bank. I'm fine. Things same things hit. Yeah. I just got hit with one on my other property for the insurance as well, like and these kind of things. And yeah, yeah. And it's just it's nonstop. And then it will be a car insurance, and then it's my windshield, and it's it's this, that, and the other, right? And kids, and and then it's the summer, so you gotta have a vacation. And I'm like, okay, leaving my traditional job in order to pursue this and build this thing out together, yeah. It doesn't really help with that, like right, you know, it's that robbing from Peter to pay Paul. It feels like that. But dude, every single time it goes out, it does find its way back in when you keep moving in the right direction, which you're doing. You're putting if if you weren't putting the effort in, and I and I just have to say this because I don't want someone sitting there thinking, oh my gosh, if I spend my money, it will come back in. But then they're not doing any efforts towards getting money to flow back in as well. Right. I just want that as the caveat, right? Like you have to still go out and if it's your business you're running or whatever it is, you still have to put that energy there so it allows that other funds to flow back into but it always does. It always does. Like if you look historically, you and I have talked about this. Like, when has it not? Obviously, it's flowed more in at certain times, but then you're also spending a different currency.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

That's true. And we we've talked about and and it, these are things that I know. And I just had to say this out loud so you could help talk me through this little moment that I'm in.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Well, the emotion cur the emotional currency you're spending on this is way higher than the financial currency. Yeah, good call. Like, and that's one where we have to be like, okay, I I'm aware of this. It doesn't take it away, but I'm aware of this. Right. For me, that kind of gives a little bit of permission to be like, I need to maybe do something more. I need to go for a hike, or I need to hit the gym right now and get completely out of my head because I am spending more in here than I am actually paying out.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

And I actually went for it's funny you say that I went for a hike and I went for a walk. I think later that day with Rusty, I I had a chance to play street hockey with Axel. So all these things that I do, yeah, that I that that that really do not just take me away, but it's that, like you're saying, that different currency that I know it's like, okay, this is this is what matters, and I do know that I'll get through this, and and we and I am getting through it, but it's just I think because we've talked about this so many times over the past couple of years, and I love it because I think we're both in a different, you know, as yeah, we're kind of like there for each other when we're going through it, right? You're you're talking each other through it because you know like what you're saying. I know exactly the words that you're saying. It's just sometimes I'm like, okay, I just need to hear it out loud. Yeah, you know, I just need to hear it.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Dude, I got one more. This concept of I'm excited to see how this comes back, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:15

And I actually thought it's funny you say that because I thought that this morning, actually, knowing that you know, I kind of printed some of this stuff out because I wanted to talk about this and evolve out loud with you.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

But I thought about that exact same thing. I know, I know it's gonna come back. That's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

How exciting is that when you stop and you're like, Pretty cool, I don't know how this is gonna come back. I'm kind of excited to see how this is gonna flow back. And so you already have that piece, that unwavering belief system, and that's where it is. It's man, we are only a byproduct of our thoughts, bro. So that belief system's already ingrained, it will come back. Let's do that. Let's try to get a little excited, and I don't know how, but I'm I'm stoked to see me too the way it's gonna come back. Yeah, you know, Katie always does this to me. She's and it's fun. We'll be on our walk and she's like, Do you know a miracle could happen by seven o'clock? We do the same thing. We're walking and it kind of gets a little bit like, damn, there's a lot on our plate, or like a lot going on. This is going on next month, or this is I'm feeling all this pressure for my kids taking them on summer vacations. And I'm looking at it and I'm like, Yeah, but I also need to make sure that all of our main staycation things are taken care of. Like, and you know, so it's it's kind of one of those feelings, but it does bring a little joy when she says that at night, like a miracle could happen at seven by seven. And I'm like, you're absolutely right. But the energy is going out, dude, and you're already putting that out there anyway, and you're doing so many other things. Who knows what pocket it's gonna come from, dude? That's true, but it's gonna flow in and it's gonna be like, oh, there it is again, and then something else will come up and whoop, I'll you know, pay them.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

And you know what's funny? So I thought about this as I was kind of kind of going through some of my thoughts and thinking about this. I'm like, we'll just talk about it, you know, in the next next episode when we see each other on Thursday. I thought about like when I was in the radio world, so before you know, we were let go, you know, we had the the good contracts. I mean, I say good contracts, but I should say, you know, we were making the good money. Sure. Even then, making that money, I worried, and I guess it was probably pre-Iyahuasca's pre that conversation, pre that concept that you said to me, and literally that resonated so and it hit my heart and my thoughts. I'm like, this is amazing. I never thought of it that way. But I do remember thinking back to when I was making, you know, a lot more money, I was stressed out over money. It was weird. Like we, you know, we had more of it, but I was stressed out over it.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

I've been there, brother.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

That's like isn't that weird? Yeah, I think that that's just And what is it though? Is it is is it I don't know what that is and where it comes from. I mean, I'm I'm in a different I mean I mean I'm stressed, I'm not stressed out about that's the thing. I'm in a different, I mean, really in a like a 180 space where I used to be to now, but it did stress me out back back when I was making it.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

I think that this the narrative around money has been like stressing us out from a very early age. I mean, think about it. As a kid, your friends are gonna run over to the store or whatever, right? You need money, you want money. Everything's like, because I I want to buy treats with them, or I wanna, you know, if we're gonna go to a game, you're gonna win. So it's constantly this thought of like, it's almost like this pressure of there's never enough of this thing. But the kicker is bro, the best moments we've ever had haven't cost us anything. That's true, or very minimal. It's just say you're at the event. Yeah, and yes, you had to pay for the event, but it's the moment that's unfolding at the event. It's not like you're not in that moment. Here, here's here's that 20 bucks, 80 bucks. Right. But yet we do, we hold so much weight. And I get this way too. I know it's every beginning of the month and every end of the month that I'm gonna go through a little funky stage. Yeah, where I'm gonna start like overthinking things, almost making irrational decisions, like what do I what do I need to offset in order to make this work and this work? Fortunately, because of a lot of the work we've been putting in, you can start identifying that. And it's like, okay, I know where this is going. Right. I know we're good. Yeah. No, know we're good. But I'm gonna start doing what I said earlier. I'm gonna start asking myself, what am I really paying for this moment? Because it's not about the money at this point. I'm using so much thought and like processing energy for this belief or or outcome that I think is gonna happen or whatever, or the fear of letting it go. That's the cost right there. Dude, that's costing you so much more, bro. Yeah, so much more. Like you almost have to say, okay, I can stress over a $4,000 payment, or I can have $8,000 worth of like health damage long-term in my life by just like overthinking this and and going in that darker space. There's something, something kind of to that.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Thinking about what we're talking about, and like, you know, where you're saying when you're a kid and you know you need money to do things, and I think it's I'm trying to think, like growing up, my parents like we didn't have a lot. My dad was a saver, my ma was a spender, but they didn't really preach saving for retirement. I kind of had to figure that stuff out on my own, you know, as I as I went on and worked and started at 401k and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

Never really had any um discipline or direction coming from my immediate family. But I think where we're at now, it's almost it's almost on the other side of that pendulum. And that is, and maybe it's my algorithm because I'm I'm constantly, you know, if I find somebody that that that I vibe with, let's say on Instagram, that's like a financial planner or somebody that's in that world or that space, and I'll see these videos come in. I think we're being just like hit over the head with like your retirement. If we want to be honest, I mean, especially in my industry or the industry I used to be in, I'm 55, and guys that I would look up to and women that I'd look up to in this business that are older that did what I did are dying off at like uh an age of I'm not kidding, like in their 60s.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

Early 70s. And and and this is just all across, I mean, you think about people that, you know, guy, men dying in their 70s, yeah, right? Not even making it. So where I'm going with this is like we put all this pretty much our whole life into gotta build that retirement, gotta build that retirement. And then a lot of people don't even get a chance to to see it, enjoy it. And you know, and you're holding on and goes back to the people just holding on to it. And then it's almost that mentality when somebody does retire, maybe they do have enough to to generate like X amount of dollars a month, but they still love or they still live like they're like they're broke. Yeah, you know what I mean, where they're not enjoying the money. It's it's just a weird thing, like because I've been really conscious about that. Like, I don't fixate on my retirement, but I do look at and I'll crunch numbers from time to time and just go, I know, dude. Do you do the same thing? Oh, yeah. I just yeah, I know. Do I do the same thing? We know, I know. I that was a dumb question I asked out loud. For the for the listeners, though, I was asking. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I know I overdo it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

You know what I mean? Like sometimes, like, and that again. So, what if we look at money as a relationship? Like you are in a relationship with your dollar figure, right? Your net worth, we'll call it. What kind of relationship is your net worth having back with you? Are you needy? Are you like clinging on to them? Are you not letting that relationship like flow? And I'm I'm asking this because we've we've programmed ourselves to have this like ideology about money. Like, if if I had that, I'd be I'd be good. And and like you said, you're like, I had, and I was still stressed, of course, because you're jumping up to what your new level of financial comfort is, and you're spending exponentially more and probably not enjoying anything more, and it just feels like that, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:39

So I was so it's funny you say that because you know, we were, you know, we take vacations and stuff like that, but it wasn't buying like a lot of the glitzy and glammy stuff. What I was spending the money on was other investments. Like I was I was putting this into this, and you know what I mean? So, but uh there was a lot of money going out, yes, but at least it was for other other investments, rental, rental properties, and it was like, you know, I I was doing a life insurance thing, one of those pump and dump things where I was putting a lot of money into that. Yeah, did that for almost 10 years and then was able to take kind of take that and do some other things with it and pay things off. Yeah, you know, because figured like, well, we've got this for you know, there's a another policy, and then the stuff that we have as far as hard assets, that would be, you know, life insurance in itself. And then I was like, Well, this this will serve us better. So it was kind of but yeah, so but there was still a lot of money going out, so it was a different kind of a stress, but it was still stressful.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

It is stressful, but the thing is, which is what's funny about all this, so you had the life insurance policy thing, you offset that, we're able to pay off some other things, so so that freed up more capital there. Dude, if you think about it, in that energy mindset, not from a dollar, but from the energy, the same amount is still floating out there. It's just allocated differently. But that energy is all still out there and doing well for you. Actually, doing a lot better because your stress level is exponentially lower.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

And and and again, I love it because we've talked about this, and you saying that before has really helped helped me see it. So I know it. Just a couple of these, you know, huge things back to back. I'm in this rattled, rattled mode right now, but I know we talk about this kind of thing a lot. We do. You and I like personally.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

We do. I kind of want to go back to the relationship thing with it, right? That if it was having a personal relationship with us, like how are we showing up? Because there's something there, like, you know, you're with a with a partner and they're always needy of you. Like that's a very off-putting like portion of the relationship, right?

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Like, how is your relationship? Because I look at mine, I don't think I'm needy. Uh uh, maybe even to the point where I give it too much autonomy. Sometimes I'll I'll crunch the numbers, but I'm not like constantly checking in with it. I'm not constantly saying, like, what are you doing for me? Yeah. You know what I mean? But I don't know if I'm giving it too much.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Like where I'm just like, you do your thing and I'll check in like a month or two.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

And I was thinking about that. I was like, okay, it's it's equivalent to like my money wants to go out for the evening with its other money friends. What big bucks are gonna be there trying to pick up on you? You know? But like thinking about it in that regard, I'm like, okay, I'm definitely doing some of that. I am transactional sometimes with my relationship with money. I'll let you go out, but I want something when you get back.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Like, go out, have a good time, but when you get home, I want something in return. Like, that's not like in in an or like a healthy relationship. That's not a good way of approaching it, right? Like, I've been there, but it's not a good way of approaching it. And that's what I'm just saying. Like, maybe there are some of those kind of things to just kind of sit and reflect on. You know, I'm totally gonna do that now. I unpacked that that I'm like, I've been transactional with a lot of mine. Like, okay, I'll let that money flow out in a loan or or whatever it's doing. But it's like I need to make sure that I'm getting X back rather than just being like, go out, have a good time.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

I think since our friendship has kind of grown over the last couple of years, I've become more attentive with my money. I think. I don't know. I I think I have a pretty healthy relationship with it, but I think prior to that, it was almost like I never really checked in with it. I mean, I was doing things, like I said, the the life insurance and knowing that I'm like, okay, I got this, trying to put money into this and to this.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

But I really wasn't checking on it, other than knowing that it was doing something, right? Sure. And and accruing. But until we started like forming our friendship, I was like, I need to be a little bit more attentive with what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

See, but then I'm worried that I've brought too much, like, hey, you need to really focus on this relationship, Rankie. I don't I don't want that for you either because it is daunting. Yeah, it's daunting, dude. Well said. Financial stress, it's a heavier weight. It's the same way when we you and I talk about like family-related issues versus something's going on at work or something's going on somewhere else. It's like, yeah, that kind of is a bummer, right? But it hits different when it's family. It's kind of like finances, it just hits a little different. Yeah, it's pretty perfect. Because, and I also know my relationship with it is there's a scarcity, not a scarcity, right? But I'm terrified that I lose it all. And you and I have talked about this. I've had many nightmares that I'm like, I'm moving out of my house into back into an apartment or back to like my dad and and Dale's place, and it's like it's genuinely gut-wrenching. Yeah, like I feel like a failure. And I think then there's this association that by having money means that you have success when I know that that's not true.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

And it's almost, and I don't want to say a false sense of security, because it's not. If you give it too much weight, then I think it is. Like the what we're talking about, like overpowering our thoughts, letting it occupy that part of the brain, that anxiety.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

It it's unfortunate that as a society's belief system is that there is so much weight on money, because if we viewed it more as as I just need financially enough to take care of my needs, so that I can just have extra bandwidth to have fun, I think we would be in a very different position right now. And I'm not talking about you and I. I just think holistically, if we could just be like, I don't need as much as I really believe I do, and maybe a little buffer as things come up. But dude, outside of that, we should be living, man, not worrying about damn money.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Well, it's it's the different forms of compensation that you're you're hitting it on the head, and that's something that I think we both we've talked about that, and just kind of where I am, where I was before, where I am where I am now financially. And I think the same thing for you as far as you know, like where you were in the corporate world, yeah, you know, what's coming in now as opposed to what was coming in then, you gotta look at it like because it does free up the you know, we we have stress, it's not the toxic bullshit corporate America stress. Yeah, right? The stuff that affects everything, it affects your being, it affects your health, emotional well-being, it affects your family, exactly your kids. Yeah, it's just kind of it's spider webs.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Everybody, it's like collateral damage.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

100%.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Everybody is affected by that. But where we are now, and again, it can be stressful from time to time, but the different forms of compensation, that that freedom that you have, we're more engaged with our loved ones, with friends. That to me is is is a form of compensation that you can't you can't put a price on it. To kind of speak to your point where you know where we're talking to everybody, you gotta look at, I guess, what truly matters and and and kind of maybe even break it down and go again back to the conversations we've had before of why am I doing this? Why am I going after this thing? Is it because of things that I'm trying to fix from my past? Sure. You know, or trying to undo or trying to prove something. Does my family really care? Am I am I truly doing this for my family or am I doing it for other reasons?

SPEAKER_01 27:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

You know?

SPEAKER_01 27:33

I know a lot of times, like, so going to some of these networking events, run into somebody and find out they're my age, and and right away, right away, Frankie, it becomes like a pissing contest, especially if it's another guy and it's like, oh, what do you do? And then they like say it, and it's like, then they start flying, you know, oh yeah, I'm gonna take the boat out this weekend and all this. And my mind starts going to, oh, they make more than you do. And I'm like, this dude might be one paycheck away from losing everything, like the reality of it, because we have been so programmed that the things you own, the title you have, the house you live in, the car you drive, this is who you are. It's that Instagram reel, dude. It's the sizzle reel. But the the craziest thing is it's only amping up more. It's only getting worse, it's only getting worse. And this was crazy. It hit me the other day. We are not only like more into technology, dude. We are facts checking our own lives and decisions now with technology. That's crazy. We can't even be like, I'm gonna discipline my kid without asking Chat GPT, how should I discipline my kid? Like, what the like where are we heading, dude?

SPEAKER_02 28:42

The tails wagging the dog at this point with AI.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

I think where you and I, when we were growing up, it was kind of like, yeah, if you became a millionaire, that'd be a big deal. Right now, now it's such a production-based environment. How quick can you produce things? How much content can you roll out? How much, how much, how much? So I think their version of what we're dealing with with compensation is gonna come from a different stress level. That dude is gonna be another hard one that you're spending way more than you actually are like in currency. You're spending way more with the energy on it. And you're not gonna get that anywhere near back. Never gonna get that back, dude.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

So this is good. This is I I needed this because I mean I know I know all the stuff that we're talking about because again, we talk about this quite a bit. You know, we we're very vocal about yeah, when we're kind of maybe talking each other off the roof on something, and I just I don't just kind of hit a couple of these things hit, and it's like, okay, I just want to maybe address this because I think people can relate to it.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

And if you're like me and you're horrible at checking your accounts all the time, maybe maybe only a lot a certain amount of day, like during the daytime.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Do you check it multiple so you check it multiple times in the in the day?

SPEAKER_01 29:48

It depends on what I'm doing. So um, if I'm transferring some money around, I'm gonna open up all my apps and check everything. Okay. Um if I'm Do you need to do that? No, I don't need to do it. Okay, you just do it. I'm doing it because my mind's like, oh, I'm in financial mode. I'm gonna start looking at everything, you know?

SPEAKER_02 30:03

And how long does that, let's say, if you're just doing a quick transfer where it could potentially just take a couple minutes to do it, how long does it actually take because you're opening up all this stuff and you're going down that financial road?

SPEAKER_01 30:13

So the funny thing is it's not how long the actual checking the apps and stuff, we're talking a couple minutes, everything's done. What ends up happening is my amazing magical brain, and I'm saying that very sarcastically here, is it starts running every scenario then of, but then if I moved this around and I did this, I could get a bigger return here, or I could do that. That's exhausting, and that becomes uh probably another hour and a half, two hours of just like it's running in the background. So even if I'm having a conversation with somebody else, I'm like those apps are open. Yeah, I'm like, cool. And then I'm like, hmm, I wonder if I sold that. What was this, you know?

SPEAKER_02 30:49

And you're down to like eight percent on your battery, you know?

SPEAKER_01 30:52

And it's eleven, it's eleven o'clock in the morning. That's crazy, and it's like, oh, yeah, I'm at eight percent already.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

Isn't it interesting though how like the relationship that we have with money? And but yeah, going back to the whole like where we I I I think we're just kind of drilled into this, like, you know, with retirement, you gotta have, you gotta have, you gotta have. And yes, you you you wanna have something in retirement, no question.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Which you might not even be able to enjoy.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Yeah. Or even even need. That's the thing. Where they're like, you know, that there's so many of those that are out there, like if you're at this age and you know, you need and obviously it's like I guess the lifestyle that you become accustomed to, right? That makes a big difference. But do you again it goes back to the question do you really need all the stuff that you had? Do you re is that really what life is all about, or is it the other forms of currency that we're talking about?

SPEAKER_01 31:39

It is, man. And then you're measuring yourself up to whatever you just heard.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

Yeah. And that's a hard boy, that because it does, it gets in the head, and yeah. So I I I've been really good about recognizing that. You know, like when I'll see something come in and and I don't check, and that's the thing, I think I'm checking it more now, the finances as far as investments and just other things. But before I was going, it would be I think we have an account still. You know, and I'd check and be like, wow, that looks pretty good. You know, that's done pretty well over the so it got to the point where I was M I A. And then now I'm more attentive, but I'm not like checking it every day. I check, you know, maybe like let's say the other investment, the the retirement. I think the last time I checked it was about a month ago, maybe a month and a half ago.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

You know, because I know, especially in the world that we're in right now, it can be way high one day. Yeah, you know, and then it's like down in the shitter the next day.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Or maybe in that same day, it's down in the shitter when it was up, you know, early in the day and then it's down in the shitter before five o'clock.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

I think the hard thing is sometimes when we talk about finances and and I'm like, oh, I'm kind of doing this, and you're like, oh, similar, and we're and we're in the same arena doing some of these things, and and you give a recommendation, or or if I especially if I give you a recommendation, dude, that eats at me for a while. Like I have to make sure that that's actually like paying off for you. Then you know, I know don't let that weigh. No, I know. I'm just giving like that's another one of those things that like because you feel like this responsibility. Yeah, because I'm like, oh, I kind of like talked about this and you're like giving advice and like I'm like, and it's kind of really funny when you were talking earlier, and I just wanted to kind of share this because I know other dads probably go through the same thing. If you have these big things that are pending or hit, or you check your your mailbox and you get an amazing note that says you owe $4,000, you know, when you go back in, and I don't know if this is how you are, but then I go back in with the intention to play with one of my boys, and that's running in the back of my head. But then they'll here's the second layer, and this one really like bums me out that I uh that I even think this way, and it's cool because now I get to do something about it. If then they're like, Hey dad, let's go in and grab a snack, I start thinking how much those the snacks and stuff costs because my mind's gone to uh I owe money next week. Every week we have to buy groceries. Yeah, makes you hyper aware of like hyper aware economic. I'm like, dude, just I'm comp I'm doing the opposite. I'm compounding the interest of negativity in a situation that doesn't have to be.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

Yeah. Or it's like you said, it's costing you more than just that five, four thousand dollars. I mean, it's costing you much more than that.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

And it's costing my kids and everybody that's interacting with me more, too.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

It's that collateral damage.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Absolutely, dude.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Well, just to go back to kind of ease your like I know that you stress about that and don't stress about because uh for the people that don't know what we're talking about, so you helped me like with some investments, you know, and and kind of sold this, and it's like, okay, I'm gonna park the money here, and you were like, hey, here's some a good strategy. So kind of got that in place. And just to give you an idea of because we set the dividend. I haven't even I haven't even gone in yet to see if those dividends are set. No stress. I mean, I will in the next month or so, and just but right now it's like if I don't need to take that and draw from it, I'm not going to. So I don't want you to because I and it and that I know it's up and down. I get it. It's okay. I've checked it for you. Yeah, yeah. But it but it is. I know I get the the investment side of that. I mean I don't get it as well as you do. But I mean, as far as I try not to to be so attached where I'm like checking in with a daily. I have checked that, you know, more than the other stuff, but I'm not like checking in with a daily, and when it's down, um it doesn't stress me out because I know I know I've been on the ride for a minute.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:16

So I know how that works.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 35:18

But I think the biggest thing is for me, we've chatted about this too, is the currency of the friendship, the currency of the relationships are always way more valuable than the dollar amount. Yeah. So it's like those kind of things that, you know, when you're going to business with friends or you're doing other things, it's like it plays a little bit on the back of your mind that you're like, oh, I hope that that doesn't hope that pans out. No, and I I know that's not in this situation. I'm just saying maybe advice to someone that's listening. It's like, you know, we've all been there that's like your friend's like, hey, we should go in 50-50 on this, and you're like, oh yeah, we want to, but then what if it ruins the relationship? Right. And I think as long as you have that conversation right out the gate and you're like, hey, dude, I don't know how this is gonna play out. This is what I do, yeah, and it's worked for me. If it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

And that's exactly what you said as we were kind of talking about that and you were helping. And I think that's a great piece of advice. That's if you're gonna go in on something like what you're splitting a boat or a a cabin or whatever with a friend, that right there I think is probably not good. Yeah, but that's you, you know, to each his own. But I think it's good to have those conversations, yeah. Like up front, if this goes sour, is it gonna hurt or hinder this friendship?

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

Because the chances of it going sour in some way, shape, or form are pretty good if you're going into something like that.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

You know, I mean, they are, and and and even like an in like if you're investing and you're going in on something together, yeah, and and know that like if something happens, is it gonna hurt our friendship?

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Yeah, is the risk outweigh the return?

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Yeah. And I think those are good conversations to have at the beginning, man.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

100%. Just be open, have good conversations. This has been an awesome conversation, man.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

It has. Thanks to Kiln. So this episode power powered by Kiln in their podcast studio. Yeah, this is awesome. It's a beautiful space.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Thank you, Kiln.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

Uh, let's hit a couple of things here. So we've got a coffee meetup at the end of June.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

June, yeah, June 26th. Okay. I said 29th on the last one. It's the 26th. It's a uh Friday morning from 9 to 10. And it's gonna be at Alpha Coffee in Cottonwood Heights. Yep, you can see this all. Actually, we'd love it if you RSVP on the website, just so we know who you are and you become part of the dadhood network here. Just hang out for an hour with us. Yeah, so go to dadhood.co. You can find out more about that. But more importantly, too, on the 13th. June 13th. Mill Hollow. Yeah, Mill Hollow Park in Cottonwood Heights. In Cottonwood Heights.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

So from 10 to noon, we're gonna be just doing a dad meetup. Our very first dad meetup. We've got some opportunity drawings thanks to Lifetime, thanks to just ingredients.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

Tibby, we have Alpha Coffee. Just yesterday, they just dropped some more gift cards. We've got Ritual, I think. Ritual downtown. Um The Lifetime Store. Did I say the Lifetime Store? Okay. And First Utah Bank, they actually did a corporate donation to us, which is awesome, which is allowing us to do some of these giveaways and some of the other things that we're we'll be handing out outside of that opportunity drawing. So it's just really cool.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

So if you come by and just bring bring yourself, bring your family just to hang out for a couple of hours, we'll get to know you, and that's all it is, man. A face-to-face. Face to face. Just getting to know you out in the community. So all the information is at dadhood.co. Of course, you can follow us on uh Instagram and I think on TikTok as well.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

TikTok as well.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

This is fun, man. All right, man. Thanks for talking me off the ledge. Yeah, any time. Appreciate it. And of course, we're on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Tune in.