Parenting Lessons From Overcoming Family Adversity

What happens when life turns your entire world upside down?

In this deeply personal episode of DADHOOD, Thomas and Frankie sit down with Jeff Stay to talk about growing up in a family built on unconditional love, navigating financial struggles, watching his father go to federal prison at 18 years old, and how those experiences shaped the husband, father, and leader he is today.

Jeff shares incredible lessons about resilience, work ethic, parenting, awareness, adaptability, and why supporting your children matters more than trying to control their path.

This isn't just a conversation about hardship.

It's about choosing optimism, finding purpose in adversity, and creating the kind of home every child deserves.

In this episode:

•  Growing up with teenage parents 
•  Why unconditional love changes everything 
•  The impact of financial struggles on children 
•  His father's federal prison sentence 
•  Learning resilience through adversity 
•  Parenting kids with different personalities 
•  Awareness and adaptability in fatherhood 
•  Teaching confidence without controlling your children 
•  Creating a home your kids always feel safe returning to 

If you've ever wondered what truly makes a great dad, this conversation is one you won't forget.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Welcome to the Dadhood Podcast. What's happening, my friends? Doing it live, actually recording it live from the Kiln studio or Kiln. So if you're looking for co-working space, private office, meeting rooms, event spaces, this is where we're doing the show. We have been doing the show. So the show is powered by Kiln.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Power by Kiln. We're so grateful. Awesome space as always. And uh yeah, we've got a good friend today in the studio, Mr. Jeff's Day. What's happening, my friend?

SPEAKER_03 0:30

Hey, how's it going, guys? How you doing? So it was just hearing kind of uh how you guys actually met that story. That was pretty uh interesting. Club station. What was it? Sandy Station Station, yeah. Lumpy South. Lumpy last nightclub. First time that you guys met was at that club.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Yep. I I feel like Lumpy South was definitely a good name for it.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

So the reason that we have Jeff back on the show is we did our dadhood event. So just a little bit ago, June 13th, we were over at Mill Hollow Park in Cottonwood Heights, and thanks to everybody that came by. That was a really good thing. That was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

And thanks to all the sponsors too that showed up with amazing prizes to give away and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

It was a great day. Yeah, it was cool to connect with some dads face to face, see some old friends and some new friends as well. Uh but talking to Jeff, talking about you kind of mentioned your childhood a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

And I remember when we were on like I think it was Or the Round Table.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Yeah. Oh my gosh, that was a long time ago. That was car seats and coffee, dude. That wasn't even dadhood. How many years ago was that? Holy crap.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

That had to honestly be almost ten years ago. Eight to ten, somewhere in three.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Have we known each other that long?

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Because Bria was a baby. What? I swear. Maybe I I'm thinking like because I'm giving you seven. That's as far back as I'm going.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

You think like seven? Honestly, seven. Yeah, I was thinking like four to six, maybe four to six. It was pre-COVID, though. It was pre-COVID.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

We're six years past COVID. So holy shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

That's crazy. Then yeah, six years. So it had to have been maybe seven years ago. Anyway, so I don't remember hearing any I don't remember hearing anything about that. I don't think we talked about your childhood. I don't think we did.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

I think we did a bit on my first episode with the Carseets and Coffee. Yeah. But this is a whole new platform. It is, exactly. We're gonna act like that story didn't even happen. Didn't even happen. Yeah. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 2:17

Are you from here originally?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

I am. Okay. So born and raised in Salt Lake. I've lived in Southern California. I've lived in Vegas. But every time I try to leave, something pulls me back to this silly, beautiful, lovely town. Do you like it here? I do. I I love Salt Lake. Nice. I mean, that's part of, you know, we were talking about the tattoo, and that's kind of what brought up the story of my childhood. And, you know, I intentionally, I like, you gotta get the Wasatch Mountains on my tattoo. I'm so proud to be from Salt Lake. I don't know that I'll be here the rest of my life, but I will I definitely love this place and I'll always be proud that I was from here.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

It gets in your blood, no question. I mean, I've been here almost thirty it'll be, let's see, what 20 years it'll be 30 years next year. Yeah. In 2027, that I moved here. And I remember moving here, man. I was like, I don't want to go anywhere else. I want to retire here. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

I was famous Grandmaster Kwan. He talked about that. He's like, this is the place I will leave the earth in Utah. How about that? I know. Just has a special connection. Something about it, man. Like I always say, it's like it's home base. No matter where I go, I just called it it's just home base. Yeah, exactly. You know?

SPEAKER_03 3:14

So let's talk about your childhood. So, how many brothers, sisters do you have?

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Kind of the the unique thing that, you know, just kicking it off is my parents had my brother at 16. So and my brother's 10 years older than me. So they were high school sweethearts and you know, kids will be kids. So mom got pregnant at 16, and amazingly enough, I mean, they just did what they had to do and they just made it work and you know, had 30 years of marriage. So it kind of leads to some more of the story down the road. But anyway, so it was just a really interesting start right there. And one thing that I've just always been very proud of my parents is that two 16-year-olds raised four kids. So they ended up being my brother, two sisters, and then myself. And so I was the last. My parents were only 28 when they had me, and I was the last born. And I I'd never appreciated that until I became an adult and started having kids. How the hell? Oh, at 16 years old, and 17 and 18, and even all through your twenties, did you raise these kids in any sort of normal situation and with such maturity? You know, and of course they weren't perfect, and you know, mistakes are made, but I think the lovely thing of human nature, we just tend to forget some of the bad things. You know, and they there really was just nothing but love and acceptance and with those with these two kids that raised this family, and so it's just unbelievable.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

What did they do for a living? Like did and did they go to school while they're working and raising kids?

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Mom, if I remember the story right, well, I know for sure. My mom, she dropped out of school because I remember when I was a kid, I remember taking my dad and I would drop her off at school. She would get her GED later in life. Um, I'm nearly positive my dad stayed in school though. So he graduated high school. Okay. Um, was still working jobs though. I mean, they legitimately they got married, they they had a house. I assume they were just renting it. I don't know. But yeah, I mean, they did the the real deal from 16 on. He was going to school, he was working jobs, taking care of the family. Like it's unbelievable how they made it work. And kudos really to my dad's parents. They were just super supportive of everything. And my mom had more of the kind of the rough childhood, was really trying to escape some of that. Um yeah, it's just it's amazing how well balanced all of us kids are, and how well balanced my parents are, and you know, just the emotional maturity that they brought into that incredibly tough situation.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

At a young age. Yeah. And I wonder if that like if being the the time period that they did that in, I think of versus like a 16-year-old today. Yeah. Like, because I know like I and maybe it's just like when we were children, I always looked at my parents as being way more mature and like they felt older than we than I felt and Katie felt when we had kids. And I don't know if that's like true or just the perception of being a child, you know what I mean? But like I think about 16. Dude, I didn't even know what the hell was going on at 16.

SPEAKER_03 6:09

You know what I mean? I can't even imagine. I've got a friend from second grade, this guy, buddy Keith. Oh, yeah. So he had his first boy, Anthony. He was 18, and his wife, now wife, but you know, they were just they were kids, but she was 16. Wow. When she got the same thing. It's amazing. And and and they have made it through a lot, and probably, and they'd be the first ones to admit it, they shouldn't be together now. I mean, they're together, but they shouldn't be. Yeah. You know what I mean? They've been through so much shit, and it's just gotten oh, there's hold on, I'm getting a phone call. I don't know why she's calling. Hold on here. Let me just make sure it's not an emergency. Is everything okay? Uh I think I have it in my pocket. The car key. Oh no. Uh oh. Uh oh. Shoot, shoot, shoot. Um, do you think oh man. Um, okay. I'll get I'll get it to you. Sorry. Love you. Bye. Uh sorry, one. No, all good. We're down to one car. I've been without a car now for over a month.

unknown 7:01

Rolling.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

Still rolling, yeah. So as we're talking here, everything is under control. So thank thank God your wife was here. I know. Katie's here at Kiln. I know. She's just running in the the fob over to Tammy. She was not she was not happy.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

That's just the beauty of kiln. Your partner might be here working, also.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

What are the odds of that? Thank God she was here though. Dude, come on.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Everything just hanned out exactly how it's meant to be.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

Because Tammy was not happy. And I'm like, she knows that we're recording. I'm like, I gotta get this because this is uh an emergency. And she was like, Where is the fob? It's in my pocket. So I apologize. So where do we leave off?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Yeah, so anyway, my my dad, like I say, he was working and going to high school at the same time. He was doing just kind of random jobs. He was working at a sign shop, you know, dealing with like billboards off the side of the road. He was always into music though, so he was constantly playing in bands. He'd spend most of the weekends, you know, playing different clubs or gigging around and stuff and making money here and there. Yep, absolutely. So he was doing that, really got serious into the music side of things. That's a whole side story. I actually met the lead singer of Kansas who talked him out of being a rock star. Like, hey, if you want to be a rock star, here's the real life. And my dad's like, after that conversation, he just drove home crying the rest of the way because he really was like, that is not the life I want. Because he'd already had like two or three kids at this point. But anyway, so got talked out of the rock and roll lifestyle.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

So did he say basically you're gonna be on the road, you're gonna be these ungodly hours of just in the if you're in the studio, but the chances are you're gonna be touring all the time and gigging and oh yeah. Totally.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Yeah, you're not gonna have the you won't be there for your family the way that you want to be. And that fortunately for all of us kids was more important to my dad to be there for the kids than to be a rock star. And I wasn't even born at the time, I wouldn't exist had he chosen the other path.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

So how about how cool was that of the lead singer of Kansas to say that? Just out of like, hey man, this isn't all wood. I mean, it's I'm sure there's some really good thing, good things being in that position, but the stuff that is important to you is Yeah, he was just very real with him.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 8:53

Yeah, it was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Um so then he got into radio. We we've talked about that before at Thomas's house, and yeah, he did tradio for a while. Oh, yeah, I did tradio.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

Yeah, it's one of my very first stations outside of Detroit. Yeah, a little farming community that I worked in.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Majority of my life, he was in insurance. So he was an insurance agent. Um well, I guess about the first half of my life, got into that, and then kind of decided like I'm just gonna I'm gonna quit this, you know, kind of not you're not even really working for a corporation at that point. I mean, you kind of are, is under farmers insurance. Okay. But just started doing his own stuff, really got into network marketing, you know, got that that's really the path that he ended up taking. So the majority of my life, it was kind of just hustling from one network marketing company to another. I spent a lot of time with USANA. That was a big one for him. He did really well with them. Um, but yeah, then after that just kind of jumped all around. He was just he's the type and he still is this way today that he just he will just do what it takes to bring in the paycheck. Sometimes it's gonna be a lot, sometimes it's gonna be a little, but he's just gonna keep plugging away.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Knowing you, Jeff, because uh at one point you're in the corporate world, you'd gone off, tried to do your own thing, yeah, and then went back to the corporate world. Now, was going back kind of by design by watching your dad do his thing, or like where'd that all come from?

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's interesting because growing up, I mean, again, kudos to my parents for just making it work. Whatever took, they made it work. My mom was always a stay-at-home mom, and which I definitely appreciated having her there. Um but at the same time, I would say for the majority of my life, we were poor. And I was aware of it and I hated it. I didn't like it. I I I didn't like driving used cars, I didn't like being in a rented house. I was I think more aware of it than my siblings were. I don't think they well, not aware of it, but I cared about it more. It bothered me more.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

What age do you remember? Like, how young were you when you realized like we were poor?

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Teenager. It was uh 12, 13.

SPEAKER_03 10:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

You know, other friends, their families are going off on vacations, and like we were only going driving to Palm Springs to go visit my grandparents. Like that was our only vacation. You know, it's like I was never going on planes, we were never doing anything elaborate. Again, the cars were always breaking down. And that's just I don't know, it just didn't bother my parents. And that's good. I'm glad I mean I'm glad it didn't bother them.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

You're describing my childhood. I mean, seriously, with that, like cars breaking down. Because I grew up in the 70s, I'm a little older. I mean, I was born in 71, but I can remember in the 70s and in the 80s that our we just had jalopies and cars always breaking down and we barely had we barely had anything. When I started to get to that point where I wanted more, I was like, I'm just gonna get a you know paper out and that sort of thing and start making my own money, but didn't bother me. I guess because all my other friends were in the same boat. We didn't really think twice about it.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Yeah. And you you had mentioned you said that it didn't really bother them. Do you think it really didn't bother them? Or you just didn't weren't aware of the conversations that were taking place behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Yeah, it's probably more the latter. Yeah. Wasn't aware of it. And kudos to them. They don't need to put that baggage on the kids. And no, that's awesome. But it's interesting though. I guess my path is a little unique because I did go the corporate route, and and I'm the only one in my family that has a hundred percent leaned into the corporate side of things. But there was always that part of me, like, well, I need to someday I'm gonna leave this and I'm gonna start my own business. Because that's just what you do. That's what the stays do. We're entrepreneurs, we do our own thing. Even if we're struggling, you just stick through it. And so after about, I don't remember how long it was, six or seven years with the my the company I was with, and that was already third company I'd worked for. I'd worked for GE Capital prior. And what age are we talking for you? So this would have been about in mid to late 20s. And so I decided, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna quit. I'm gonna start this diet business with this local chiropractor that I knew, myself and my wife. We had done the program, had lost a bunch of weight, and he needed someone to come kind of help run the business. And so I was like, all right, well, here's my opportunity. I'm gonna quit, I'm gonna do that. Did that for about nine months and hated it. It's like I didn't hate it, but it was I I missed the steady paycheck. It's like, okay, maybe my siblings, maybe my parents are okay with this. I'm not. I like the steady paycheck. I like the benefits. And so I went back. Fortunately, I left the company in good standing and I called them back. Hey, when I left, you said I was always part of the family. How serious were you? They're like, we'll bring you back right now. You got to go to Vegas. That's why I moved to Vegas. They're like, we don't have a spot open in Salt Lake, but you can go to Vegas. And so anyway, went back to the corporate life there and still with the company. It's been over 20 years now. Incredibly fortunate, though. I mean, that's everything is another side story there, but just an incredible organization to work for. They've taken incredibly good care of me, but I don't deal with a lot of the stress that other people have to deal with. I was just listening to your guys' most recent podcast on my way in here, actually, and talking a lot about that. I I fortunately don't relate with any of that.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

That's great. Because you're so good. Yeah, you're one of the few. Oh, absolutely. You know, that's awesome because there are corporations that exist out there that don't have the bullshit that most of them have. And they do care. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's just like it's a good thing. But those are quite a corns, exactly. Exactly. That's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

And not everyone at my company would even agree with that. Yeah. Someone could hear it. They're like, bullshit, Jeff. I'm absolutely grinding and getting no recognition. Where I just had my mid-year conversation with my boss and my director, and they spent more time talking about my personality and my attitude than the output of my work. It was unbelievable. It's like they just really laid in on just valuing. We want you on this team, we love you on this team because of what you bring to the culture. Very, very little of my review was about the actual work that I'm doing. And that was, I just love that. That's like they loved who I am as a person. That's exactly what it is. They loved, not loved. But yeah, they just appreciate what I bring. And so anyway, just very fortunate there. The point I want to make in all of that, though, is how my parents raised us is my dad, my mom, they've been proud of me no matter what I do. I joined the corporate life. Awesome, son. Go kill it. I went to college, got my bachelor's, got my master's, way to go. We love it. I quit. Way to go. We love it. I went back, way to go. It doesn't matter what I do. It's unconditional love. That's the way it's supposed to be, man. They want to hear about it. Yeah. They support it. They love it. I don't have to follow their path. I don't have to follow my brother's, my sister's path. We all have different paths. And my parents are so supportive and they want to know about each and every path. And mine just is different. I'm I'm the corporate guy and have been for 20 plus years now. And that, you know, I'm not following that entrepreneurial path. Anyway, I just love it. I love that that's what my parents brought, that I can just truly be me. Yeah. And know that I have their love and support no matter what.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

And just the fact that he says like they just want to hear about it. Yeah. They actually want to know what are you doing, Jeff. Exactly. Like, what isn't that all we could ask for? Yep. And then just to your point, just the unconditional love, dude. It doesn't really matter. No. Your title has nothing to do with my love. Exactly. What you experience, any of it, it's you're my son, period.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

It's made it so nice. It's really given me just such a healthy balance through life. There's so many times that I mean, granted, you know, everyone, of course, life can be tough at times. And we deal with our baggage and there's things that go on. I just can't believe like plenty of times I have to like, I honestly question myself. I was doing it on my drive in here to meet with you guys. Like, am I just lying to myself? Am I really as happy as I think I am? That's right.

SPEAKER_03 15:56

That's great.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

Because it seems too good to be true. I keep waiting for that breakdown. I keep waiting for that. Yeah. And it's like, it's just not happening. And I really, I truly, I don't have an issue getting into my own head and really questioning myself and calling myself out on the bullshit. Because it definitely happens. There are those times it's like, oh, come on, you are trying to be a version of you that's not really you, or you're trying to be this version of a dad that's not really your version of being a dad. And and so I try to do a good job of balancing all of that. But again, all I can go back to is because my parents were just so accepting. It doesn't matter what we did, the mistakes we made, the I think of, you know, I mean it sounds silly, but getting caught with a dirty magazine from my dad when I was a little kid. His reaction, yeah, hey, buddy, like of course you're gonna have interest in that. Every boy does have interest in it, but you're not at an age where that's okay for you. Okay. There's reasons why you shouldn't be looking at those things, and you know, but I don't want you to feel ashamed about it. And that, I mean, is the epitome of just how I was raised is I will not make you feel bad about yourself. I'm not gonna make you feel disgusted or ashamed or in any part of life. And I love it because it's those things that just I never had that guilt from my parents. I never had that shame. Is I can make the mistakes, learn from it, don't do it again, you know, or if you do, to learn from it again. But either way, move on. And it really has. It's just created such a very well-balanced life for myself. I'm so appreciative that that's how I was raised.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

I love that you said that because we've I don't know if we've talked about this on the show before, but growing up, you know, I was born in in Detroit and kind of raised in in Detroit in that area. And my dad, we were Catholic, and he was like raised staunch Catholic. So, but he kind of mellowed out when he had kids. And I remember, you know, having the birds and the bees talk with him, and when I got old enough, and then he was talking like about masturbation. And at the time, I don't know if it is now with the church because I'm not I'm more spiritual than religious. Yeah, but it used to be if you masturbate, you're going to hell.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

And like a lot of religions, that's the kind of the, you know, the and I remember him being so cool about that, saying, It's natural.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

And he would say, like, just don't go crazy with it, like, you know, but it's natural. You're not going to hell. That meant everything because, you know, we're I've been here almost 30 years, and there's a lot of people that have been raised in this religion here, you know, that are LDS, and it's complete opposite. It's where their parents are like, You know, you touch yourself, you're going to hell. Yeah. And it effed them up. So I know people that are full on in their 40s, 50s, and 60s that it messed them up sexually.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Oh, yeah. Yep. Absolutely. It's crazy how that shame carries through adulthood. Absolutely. Even when you leave whatever religion is, because again, it doesn't matter if it's Catholicism, Mormonism, whatever, but that shame, even after you leave it, I mean, I still deal with some of that because, you know, of course, my dad was similar the same way, having those type of conversations and just being real with me about it. My church wasn't. They absolutely made me feel shame for those things. And not to directly to me personally, yeah, but they were just telling the story. As a whole. Exactly. And it's interesting how those things will still stick with me. My wife and I talk about it that every once in a while, even in our own intimate relationship, there's certain things it's like, why does this feel wrong? Because you were told a young loving adults, we can do whatever the hell we want. And like it's anyway, it's a shame that that shame can carry through adulthood so strongly.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

You you nailed it. You have the conversations about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's so important. We talk about that all the time. You have to have the conversations. Totally. And you got to just face it and just be open to what's really going on. Because if not, then you have two adults that are feeling the shame that aren't willing to talk about it, even though they both want something. Exactly. And they're like, you know, just go on day to day.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

And again, this kind of goes back to the Robin tattoo of, you know, begin push from the nest. Yeah. And so a a really probably one of the most pivotal moments in my life that really shaped all that. And again, I'm so glad that I had the balance that I did because it helped prepare me for all this is my dad went to federal prison when I was 18. And it was for tax evasion. Um there's a few key things that I got out of it. One, I'm a rule follower because of it. Like it is kind of funny. It's as carefree as I love to be in life, and that I follow the damn rules because I saw what not following the rules will get you. But what was really tough and pivotal about that moment is him having to go to federal prison, my mom losing the house because of that. And then she was because I was 18, it was like, well, Jeff's gonna start getting ready for his mission anyway. So we don't need to worry about, you know, where he's going to live. So my mom and sister got an apartment sleeping on their couch. I'd crash in my brother's house. I was there for a few months. And I, but I didn't want to go on a mission. I was this was kind of like the beginning of me leaving the church. But a few things that I got out of that. One was my dad's attitude about the whole situation was amazing. He was just I'm sure again, and this is one of those things like was it was it truly how he felt, or was it just what he put on the outside? And it was probably a little of both. But he was just so optimistic about it. It was like, hey, it is what it is. He fought it like crazy. He didn't believe that it was fair of what was happening, and you know, went to federal prison and just had such an amazing attitude. Anytime we'd go down and visit him, he was only there for about 10 months, but still, it completely crashed my entire life. I bet. Um, but he was always just in such good spirits while he was there and just the people he was meeting and what he was learning about himself in those situations. And I know at the time it's absolutely crushing him because his family is losing their house and there's nothing he can do about it, and it's you know, quote unquote, kind of his fault because of all this is happening. But he's also teaching me just resiliency. You can bitch about this stuff, you can let it just ruin the rest of your life. Or you can face it. Yep.

unknown 21:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Yep, or just face it and move on. You know, and I'm so glad that that's what I got out of that. Is it doesn't matter if I mean it's pretty much a worst case scenario, and we're gonna be fine. And it's not gonna take even more than just a few years to be just fine. Do it. Now, granted, there's still a few things that'll, you know, come up every once in a while, some baggage from all of that, especially because it was a kind of my coming of age when I needed my dad to like, Okay, you're a man now, let's let's get you in the college, let's get you in the corporate world, let's whatever it is. It it wasn't there. I just had to kind of figure it out on my own. And so that's really the meaning of the tattoo is getting pushed from the nest. I wasn't ready to fly, but I didn't have a damn choice. Right. That nest was no longer there and I was falling from the tree. How long was he in? Ten months. Yeah. So just ten months.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

But you say just ten months, but that's a long time. Especially when you're but you said you're 18 and you need him at that point in your life. This is when I need you most. Yep. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 22:29

And during that time, Jeff, were you empathetic or more like just caring about your dad, or were you just pretty pissed off?

SPEAKER_00 22:37

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Have you ever thought about it?

SPEAKER_00 22:39

No. I don't know. I guess. Yeah. I I'm there were definitely I was definitely frustrated. I I hated that the situation happened. Because it's just like, why? Like regardless of how you want to justify what you were doing. Because he kind of and I mean he'll admit, he got a little too tied up in the whole type of movement that like the IRS is completely illegal, federal tax is not constitutional. Got tied up in that type of So was he not just not paying taxes?

SPEAKER_03 23:06

It was that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_00 23:07

I would assume just yeah, not paying federal taxes because that's unconstitutional.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

And he was vocal about it, so that probably put him on the Exactly. You know what I mean? On the radar with them.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

And that is the mistake. He was vocal and he recruited some other people into it. And so that's what, yeah, brought his name to one of the names to the top to be punished for it. So there is that part of just frustration, like especially now that I'm an an adult.

SPEAKER_03 23:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

What the hell are you thinking? Like, come on, how is that ever going to work in your favor? You know, regardless of how good of an argument it is, yeah, you're going against the federal government.

SPEAKER_03 23:38

Have you ever had those conversations with him now? Is he still with us? Or yeah, yeah, he is. Have you had that conversation with him?

SPEAKER_00 23:43

I don't know if I've said it that way.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

But I I'm sure of some. He's still fortunately is just as open as he's always been. And like, please let me know if you're mad at me and frustrated. And so now that I'm saying it, now I'm remembering back, there were definitely frustrations. There was definitely like, how could you do this to this? How could you make such a stupid decision and cause this? And he's definitely owned up to all of it. By he's never once been like, yeah, but let me explain why it really was. Wasn't trying to rationalize when you not at all. It was yeah, he owned it, yeah. Yep, exactly. That was a mistake to make, which again, just a good lesson to learn in life that just own up to your mistakes. Sometimes you're gonna do some dumb things. But it is funny that it's I don't know, it seems like it catches some people off guard sometimes, friends or even people that I work with. That's like someone wants to bend the rules a little bit. And I'm like, no, absolutely not. Like, what? You're cool, dude. Like, you know, you really care. I'm like, absolutely I care. I will not bend the rules. So it's and I'm sure someone could call BS on that and tell stories of me bending the rules, you know. But it is funny how it it made me kind of scared of the man. And it admittedly, it's I think worked in my favor, as weird as it sounds, in my corporate life, because I'm okay at times. I'm not gonna sell myself short. I'm not gonna change who I am at my core just to make the man happy, but I am quickly okay with just being like, that's the rule, that's what the man wants. I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_03 25:05

It is what it is.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pay my taxes. I'm gonna follow the corporate rules, I'm gonna do whatever it takes because I saw what that punishment can do and I don't want it.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

I remember years ago on the radio show, we had a guy that wrote a book exactly what with what you're talking about with your dad, was very outspoken. He's like, I haven't paid taxes, and it was like however many years, and he's and he wrote this book and we had him on. He's promoting this book and he's talking about how to not pay taxes. And then it was like, I don't know, a couple years after we had him on, he went to prison.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

They got him. Probably put himself if he wasn't on the radar, he was after promoting this book and went away for gosh, a long time. Ten months is, I mean, that's it is a lot when you're 18, but in the grand scheme of things, it could have been a lot longer. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Yeah, no, he definitely he he made out good considering the situation.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

What did that look like? Was he close by or was it in Colorado?

SPEAKER_00 25:54

It was actually at Nellis Air Force Base. It was a federal prison at the time. That's in Nevada or no longer is just yep, just north of Vegas. He drove himself down there. We had some neighbors who had to move to Vegas anyway, and they needed their car driven down. So he's like, Well, I gotta go to prison anyway. I'll drive your car. He literally drove himself to prison, checked himself in, never had on a pair of handcuffs. Wow, joined a band while he was in there. He's in a prison band. It's great. Yeah, exactly. It wasn't all good, of course. He it was making the best out of the situation. Totally. And it is, it's really taught me just that resiliency in life of man, like you just you gotta make the best of it. And you know, what can I learn from this? Yes, this sucks. Yes, this is tough, but what can I learn from it? How can I be a better person on the the other side of that? You know, so it is. I I hate that it happened, and again, there's definitely if I want to admit it or not, there's some baggage there that comes up from time to time.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

I'm sure. What about with your your mom? How did that affect their relationship? Did she feel like he screwed her over kind of thing? And you left me holding the room.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Yeah, so that's the yeah, no, great question. That they got divorced during that time, and so that was 30 years into their marriage again, which still is impressive for two six-year-olds to make it 30 years. But she had told him, I will leave you if I lose the house. And is like, no, you're not gonna lose the house. I got some business partners are gonna help out, cover the mortgage, and all this and that. And just that fell through it, just didn't happen. And so, yeah, we lost the house. So she divorced him while he was in prison. And it was interesting, like how tough that was. And I was the youngest, again, at 18, but it just sucks. Like, to for your parents to get divorced. I know it's that that's definitely one that's like I will never put my kids through that. I don't care at any age. It's just such a tough situation to lose that, and it was the combination of everything. So it's like my dad goes to prison, we lose our house, I'm sleeping on a couch. Wow, I'm staying at my brother's, my parents are divorced.

SPEAKER_03 27:44

Your whole world is literally turned upside down.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

So this is really interesting. This like you would had mentioned you don't want to feel too optimistic in life. It's almost this feeling like the shoe's gonna fall. Yeah, that all makes sense now, though, Jeff. With that said, the shoe doesn't have to fall again. Right. You've already been through it. I used to do this all the time, and I'm I'm saying that from just a personal thing. I would always put myself in this situation. Well, life is good now, but it wasn't always good. Yeah, you know, so I'm just like that waiting, like, uh like what's gonna what's gonna happen now? But then nothing has to happen. Yeah, you've already you've already gone through it, you've already walked through the darkness of that time. So you don't have to walk through it again.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

You've already been there, yeah. But we feel like as I think not only just men, but like when we have our families and we have all this stuff, we have this feeling like we can't let it any of it crumble, right? We have to hold on to it so tight. And it's like, bro, I think we can let go of the grip a little bit and be like, we've already gone through some some serious shit in life. We're okay. It's okay for us to have some wins. Well, I and we talk about wins like we can't celebrate anymore. Like as adults, it feels like why we don't celebrate when we have a win.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

You can only I don't know how it is for you, but we were talking about this. We can only get to so much as far as an excitement level of of like wins. And we're talking about financial wins, you pay something off, like you pay your house off. You you give yourself a pat on the back, but then that's the extent of it. We can't really get to this, which is weird. Like I we're still kind of unpacking that. Yeah, trying to figure out why. Do you feel that way at all?

SPEAKER_00 29:19

Like, um to a point. I mean, I don't I guess what it is for me, it's an awareness that anything could happen, that the shoe could drop, but it's not anticipation of it. I definitely one thing that I would say that Bonnie and I both do really well is we live life as though everything is just gonna be amazing. It's all going to work out fantastically well. And then again, I have to say, I get I get that from my dad. Like and even just growing up in general, I remember we would go to this kind of like I don't even know what you would call it, some seminar about your emotions. And it was more for my parents. They would go through this like whole seminar and we'd go as kids sometimes. And it seemed very out there at the time, but it really wasn't to today's standards of just expressing your emotions, facing life. But one of the key things that I wanted to get at is instead of saying, Oh, I'll believe that when I see it, it's I'll see that when I believe it. And that's always stuck with me. Just that that silly little phrase. And so that's how I've lived my life is like I'm going to live as though everything is just going to be absolutely perfect. And it's not always. There have been plenty, as good as my career has been, there have been plenty of job promotions that I didn't get. Leaving my job, racking up credit card debt, having to swallow my pride, go back, like, yeah, that that wasn't ideal. But it was just okay, that's fine. And I think maybe we've talked about it before. The kind of my mantra in life is awareness and adaptability. That's what I've learned. Be aware of it. So be aware that some shit can happen, but also be adaptable and help yourself prevent it. And so if there's anything I've learned, it's I'm going to take action in my life. I'm going to do things in my career, I'm going to do things in my personal life to mitigate the risk of the shoe dropping. I'm not going to live in fear, but I'm also not going to be blind and just be like, the universe will always provide. The fuck it will. Like, sorry, but like sometimes it just won't. And I say that and it sounds, you know, very pessimistic, and I don't mean it that way, but it's just be realistic. Yeah. Sometimes it's just not going to provide. Sometimes it just takes you putting in the work, grinding through it. And so anyway, I don't know. I don't want to get too much off to the side, but it's that awareness and adaptability.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

Well, and I was just thinking, like, for me, the shoe dropped in 2023 when we got fired from the radio station, April 3rd, 2023. It sucked, and it was definitely like, holy shit, it was traumatic, but it's the lens of how you look at it. It was a gift from the universe to get it get us out of this toxic situation. Absolutely. And to speak to your point, we're fine. Yep. It was scary and still can be scary at times, but it's still for the most part. It's like, are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_01 31:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:46

There's we've got more forms of compensation that maybe financially I'm not where I was, but I kind of look at it and go, but I've got this, this, and this that you can't put a price on it.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Yeah. And I and I definitely I am such a fan of that. Of I think of again, the job promotions that I haven't gotten. I am so glad I didn't get them. Every single one of them that has happened, I look back and it's always been something better on the other side. And so in that moment, the universe didn't provide, but it shouldn't have provided, or it, you know, took your job from you, but there is something better. Like it's amazing. You know, I I'm not really even spiritual or religious, kind of just agnostic in a lot of that. But I still just have this belief that it's amazing how things just turn out. And I don't know why. I don't know what it is. I think it's a balance of life just happens. It's a balance of preparation of things that I've done. But maybe there is something a little more supernatural. And I'm totally okay with that as an answer. Uh it doesn't bother me one bit. But it's amazing how things just work out. And that's so again, kind of goes back to I'm not going to live in fear. I'm going to assume that everything is going to be just not even okay, but amazing. It's going to be really, really good.

SPEAKER_03 32:53

Well, that's that's a that's a form of gratitude. You know, you're just looking at things like you know, your family, your job, just uh day to day, like you're just grateful. Yeah. And it's amazing. And that's there's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

Universal law of magnetism. I mean, there really is if you you understand just the science of with magnets, right? Yeah. Positive, and you're attracting more positive things to you. If you want to be negative, therefore you see the world negative, it's going to give you that lens back. It's going to provide that for you. It's how we perceive in our minds is what creates the reality externally.

SPEAKER_03 33:23

How are your other siblings? And how were they through that? They were it sounds like they were older when your dad went away and your mom and dad got divorced and kind of everything, their whole world, I'm sure, upside down by that.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Yeah. Yeah. The two oldest siblings, my my brother and my sister, they were both married and out of the house. So they already had their lives. Of course, it was still tough for them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:42

Still traumatic to have your parents, like what you thought you knew, and then all of a sudden it's just absolutely upside down.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

And I'm so thankful to have them as well as as a support system. They were there for me and my sister. She was uh she's a few years older than I am, but we were the two at home when it all went down. And I don't know. It's interesting. It's I think my sister had a harder time with it even than I did. Yeah, I don't know why, honestly. I think it was just easier for me to Was she a daddy's girl or not really. I think she was just really upset with everything. Yeah, that yeah. I I don't even want to try to speak for her. Right. Because she has every right to to feel the way that she felt. But it definitely there was definitely more anger there behind all of it. Where for me, I know what kind of life I want, and this isn't gonna slow me down. I'm gonna go get that job, I'm gonna go do the thing. I don't care if I'm sleeping on a couch at night, I don't have my own place, I'm gonna figure this out and just do it. Um, and not to say that she didn't have a resilient attitude, but there was definitely more anger from her. And but with the other two being out of the house, it's it's a great question, but honestly, I d I guess I can't really speak to how they felt about it. All I know is that we definitely all had our own version of reality, and that's of course just life.

SPEAKER_03 34:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

You know, it's like I can talk about you know what it meant to me and how I what I became in life because of it, and that is not their story, and it shouldn't be their story. So but we've all done great though. Everyone, you know, all moved on and have our families, and I think we've definitely all learned resiliency. If nothing else, we've learned resiliency through it.

SPEAKER_03 35:08

Do your mom and dad get along now?

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Um yes. Yes, yeah. They're they're not like real close friends and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 35:14

Because of that whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

I think there's still maybe a little bit of, you know, anger on my mom's part for what she had to go through. She was the one left there dealing with having to lose the house, and you know, and so it's understandable. I get why she would feel the way that she would. But no, it's been long enough now. This is years ago, you know, that they've both moved on and they have their own lives. So they're they're cordial, but not best friends by any means.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

You've talked about obviously the pros and the cons, the things that you've taken from your parents, the things that you don't want to be like your parents. Um, how's that impacted you as a dad with raising your kids now?

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Yeah. No, it's funny because it it does make me question it a lot of like, what are my kids going to be like? Because Bonnie and I, we have this conversation quite a bit. Like, we're both such workaholics in a healthy way. I really uh again, maybe I'm kidding myself, but I really like to believe that we're fortunate to both work for companies that are very generous with work-life balance. And so we're able to put in the work, get the paycheck, but not carry all that baggage into our kids. But our kids definitely see the work ethic. Our kids know that like there are plenty of times during the weekdays that work comes first, play comes afterward. There's clearly times that it bugs me that, you know, it's especially during summer break. The kids are at home and we both work at home. So we're just sitting in a a spare bedroom, essentially, each have our own little offices, you know, and the kids are like, well, why can't you just play with me? Why can't you just come outside? And I'm sorry, I've got to work, you know, and I wish that they could see the life you have, I never could have dreamed of. So I'm willing to just keep working and plugging away to give you the time after work and to give you the vacations and give you the weekends. But anyway, point being is like we joke that our kids are probably just gonna be like beach bum hippies because they're just like mom and dad just worked all the time. Like, but we're aware of that. And so we really do try to have that balance. We try to have those healthy and appropriate conversations with the kids of like, look, we work the way that we do to provide you this life, but there has to be a balance. And we try making it them aware of that. That yes, we do need to just stop sometimes and just play with you. And again, fortunately, we work for companies that I literally could call my boss be like, dude, I'm checking out for an hour. I'm gonna go play with my kid. So awesome.

SPEAKER_03 37:24

You're uh intentional about it. I think we talk about, and I've talked about my parents, and it was a different time, but both of them worked, both of them didn't really care for their jobs, and they were both exhausted, and there wasn't a whole lot of time. I mean, there was time with us, but it's almost like I look back when I was doing the radio thing. If I was there in front of Axel, but I wasn't really present. And I think there was a lot of that growing up. So the time that I did get with my parents, they weren't present. They just were exhausted. So I don't even know if they were thinking about work or whatever. They just weren't there because they were tired.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:55

That's cool. You guys are intentional and you you know the balance. I don't even think that was a a term in the 80s growing up with my parents, like balance. What the hell is that?

SPEAKER_00 38:04

No, and we do. We were careful to not talk bad about our careers or about working in general. It's not this horrible, stressful thing that you just have to do to pay the bills. It's we try to talk about the things that we've learned. There's some amazing skills that we've learned because of our companies, because of you know what they've the opportunities they give us to learn something new about yourself, about leadership, about tech, whatever it is. And so we try to make sure that the kids are aware there, there's a positive side to this, but at the same time, I don't want my kids to think it's the only way. And and that's where I now it's funny, I haven't really thought about it now that I'm saying it. It's like I hope that my kids will have that same balance of I know I can do whatever I want, and my dad is going to be proud of me no matter what.

SPEAKER_03 38:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

I don't know that I've done that, honestly. It's like so I hope that, yeah, I don't know that I've ever said that to him. I've definitely never said, like, oh, you gotta go to college and you gotta get a corporate job. Yeah, yeah. I've never been that blatant about it. I'm glad that I just said this out loud. I need to be more intentional with that, that they know make your own life. Yeah, it doesn't matter what it is. We're gonna be proud of you no matter what. And not only proud, but again, it's asking the follow-up questions, kind of back to the beginning of this episode. That's like, that's how I know my parents care. They ask questions. They don't just say, Oh, yeah, we're proud of you, son. Right. Way to go. How much money did you make this year? No, it's none of that. It's what are you working on right now? Oh, wow. All right. That I mean, with all the AI stuff going on, my dad really dives into that. He loves talking about that stuff with me and how I'm utilizing in the corporate world. And that's cool. But anyway, I want to make sure that I do that with my kids to make sure that they have that balance, that they can be whatever they want, and I'm gonna be proud of them, and I'm going to ask them questions about their life.

SPEAKER_03 39:36

I remember my dad, that was a big thing. So I went into you know broadcasting school right out of high school, and that was kind of not the norm. I had a couple friends that went off to college, but that really wasn't where we grew up. So they were, you know, you get a job in a factory, one of the big three, that kind of thing. You wanted some security, a pension. Yeah, and that just wasn't me. I was like, I want to do something at 14 or 15. I knew I wanted to go into radio. And I remember my mom and dad, mostly my dad, just being really supportive with that. Because he was a big fan of that medium. He just loved it. And I didn't realize until years later that he was responsible. He kind of planted that seed at a young age, had me sit down and listen to these old-time records, like that's cool. Old-time radio shows that he grew up with, you know. And so that was kind of, I guess, where the love of radio came. But I remember him saying though, no matter what you do, I don't care what you do, you can dig ditches as long as you're happy.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:26

And he would say that over and over. And I and I say the same thing to Axel. I'll say this this is what Papa used to tell me, and we feel the same. Like, whatever you do in your life for a living, make sure it makes you happy.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:38

And if it and if it doesn't, and it gets to a point where where you just feel like you're stuck, you got to have the confidence to not do it anymore. You know what I mean? Don't stay in a job. And I use like family, there's certain people in our family, people that we know that literally stayed in a job because of that pension. 25 years later, they come out and they're just shells of a human being.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 40:59

You know, and they're usually a drinking problem, probably some other shit going on in there as well as like addictions and stuff like that. They don't have uh a relationship with their kids. So it's like whatever you do, like so. I love that. Just know that the that the love is unconditional, and no matter what you do, make sure you're doing it to make you happy, not us.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

See, it was interesting because uh, and we've talked, Bria and Liam kind of have similar personalities, just this very stubborn, very headstrong. You know, Liam's 11, but he's already thinking about moving out of the house and what uh his first place is gonna be. And so the other day we are walking because we talk about like walk, just go for a walk with them and then have the conversation, start asking the questions, right? Yeah, so we're walking, and I was just kind of like chatting with him, and I said, What kind of things do you think about? Because he's told me, Dad, I'm ready to get a job and move out. And so I'm like, So let's say you moved out. What do you think? He's like, Yeah, I want an apartment, but dad, I had a dream the other day that they were kicking me out of my apartment because I didn't have the the finances. And I was like, Huh, I wonder where like where that's coming from. So I was like, huh. So I said, What would you do in that situation? Just ask him more questions, you know. He's like, Well, I'd probably try to figure it out somehow. And he's like, and maybe I would come to you and see if I could stay with you for a little bit while I made some more money, which was good because it gave the opportunity in that moment to look him right in the eyes and say, You always have a home. Yeah, no matter where I'm at. And he goes, Yeah, but what if you guys aren't in the state? No matter where I'm at, yeah, you always have a home. And then then he's like, Oh, that's good. So he reverts back. I should probably save up about six months to 12 months rent first before getting my first place. I was like, if you were on it, dude, you're gonna be just fine.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

Most most adults don't even think like that, you know, getting themselves into the street.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

And meanwhile, I look over and Jackson's just bopping down the street. Like, I'm like, he's gonna be living with Liam. Liam's gonna be living on his couch. That's great.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

That's so cool. He's thinking it that way. Yeah, it's so wild, dude. He's got you to help him like to think about it really, because it's not a bad thing to plan for, obviously, at that age. He doesn't need to take it too seriously. Yeah, and so I love that he's got you and Katie to like, don't stress out about this stuff. Because I know you guys, there's no way that you're gonna allow him to stress out about it. Because again, he's like Bria, and she would. That's the type of thing she would think about and stress about. Yeah. It's like, no, like it's awesome to have a plan, it's awesome to think ahead and to dream ahead. Be a kid. Like, let's just have fun for now.

SPEAKER_02 43:23

And it's hard because when you have a child like that, that's the way they're wired, man. Yeah, I say it all the time. I'm like, buddy, just be a kid. It's just not that's just not who he is. Exactly. And accepting that and being like, okay, he'll still play. There's moments that we'll still play and stuff, but he is thinking about these things all the time. Yeah, you know what I mean? So it's like almost you have to adapt to each child if you have multiple, and be like when I speak to Jackson, it's one way. When I'm talking to Liam, it's a complete different way. 100%. And be cognitive about like what I say in front of each kid could be way more impactful. If I were to ever mention in front of like the kids, which I don't think you should put the burden of like finances or anything like that in front of your kids, let them be the kids. But if I said something like, you know, I don't know if I want to get that vehicle or go do this thing because it costs a little more. Liam takes that as, oh, they don't have the financial means to do it. Where Jackson doesn't even hear Jackson's like, well, just like doesn't even hear that same conversation. He's just like, cool, you guys are getting away. Yeah, he's like, he's like, yeah, grab a cyber truck, let's go have some fun. You know what I mean? So it's it's very fascinating as they get older too, what dialogue you do, you say, what conversations you have because it can really quickly be taken out of context. Oh, yeah. It's just like sound bites, right? Of news is that just quickly out of context and just like understanding that with them. And it was actually Adam that we were talking about earlier, a mutual friend of Jeff and and myself, he was on the show. He talked about you have to be a different coach through their different age groups, too, right? Yeah. Like I can't be, I can't show up as the same coach I was with them when one to five that they were from five to ten, you know, going and going on and moving on now into middle school and everything else. It's like you have to adapt, which is another another level of stress as a parent, but you have to adapt in order to show up for them so that they can navigate the world and be confident in their own way, right?

SPEAKER_00 45:21

100%. It does. That's why again, not that it's completely unique, but that awareness and adaptability. That's why that's my mantra. You've got to be aware of what's going on. What's going on with your kid, what's going on with you, what's going on in the world, whatever it is, and adapt. And so adapting to that coaching for each kid at that point of their life. I love it. It's I I hadn't thought about it that way, but you do. You you're absolutely going to be a different version of parenting, a different version of that coach for the kid as they go move on. And that's fantastic advice. Yeah. What a great story. What an awesome story. Great conversation, man. Yeah, we kind of jumped all over and apologized.

SPEAKER_03 45:58

There is no apologies. And I guarantee there were like so many takeaways with this. I mean, really, with this conversation.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

Yeah, keep tuning in, my friends.

SPEAKER_03 46:04

Yeah. And we've got some meetups coming. Make sure you check out dadhood.co, check out the socials. Dadhood. We're on uh Instagram, we're on TikTok.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

And make sure you listen to us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Absolutely. Until next time, my friends. We'll talk to you soon.