Tommy Ash: How Great Dads Build Resilient Kids Through Presence, Not Perfection

What does it really mean to be present as a dad?

In this episode of DADHOOD, Frankie and Thomas sit down with pediatric therapist Tommy Ash (@talkingtommy) for one of our favorite conversations yet.

Drawing from nearly a decade of working with children and families in high-level mental health care, Tommy shares practical, compassionate advice that every parent can use.

We talk about:
• Why praising effort matters more than praising outcomes.
• Helping kids move past “I can’t.”
• Building confidence through shared challenges.
• The importance of simply being present.
• Screen time, chores, and creating healthy family routines.
• Why dads need safe spaces to talk, too.
• Vulnerability, apologizing to your kids, and repairing relationships.
• Tommy’s unforgettable “Commit, Don’t Quit” story from hiking Table Mountain with his son.
• Balancing demanding careers with intentional fatherhood.
• His family’s journey with his wife’s MS diagnosis—and the exciting news that they’re expecting a baby girl.

Whether you’re a new dad, a seasoned parent, or simply trying to become more intentional with your family, this episode is filled with practical wisdom and encouragement.

Follow Tommy:
Instagram: @talkingtommy

Follow Dadhood:
Instagram & TikTok: @dadhood.co
Website: dadhood.co

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Thanks for listening to the DADHOOD Podcast. If this episode resonated with you, make sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with another dad who’s figuring it out one day at a time.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:03

Yo, welcome to dad. Welcome, my friends. My name is Frankie. I'm Thomas. And we're powered by Kiln doing the uh we're recording live in the Kiln studio here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Still not getting old, man.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Still loving it. Pretty sweet. So the guy that we have here in with us in the studio is a guy that I met, what was it, Tommy, about maybe two years ago or was it a year ago? A year and a half. Year and a half ago. Yeah. So Tommy Ash is his name. I want you to introduce yourself as far as who you are and what you do.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Okay. So uh so I'm a pediatric therapist, and and basically what that means is I've worked with kids um ages seven to seventeen uh for about the last nine years. Um when I'm working with children, basically the thing that I do, I I tend to work in high-level care. And so I work with kids that have to um they have to be committed either because they're a danger to themselves or a danger to others. Um and so we're we're dealing with a lot of high-intensity issues that maybe day-to-day families don't deal with. But there's a lot of lessons I think that I've learned throughout the years uh doing that that could be helpful for other people.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

So I saw your content. It was like probably right before we met. And he came into my feed. I loved his style, and you're with your wife, Sarah, and just the way you guys do your Instagram, and I thought, this is really cool. So I reached out because I saw some mountains in the background. I'm like, this look like Utah Mountains, and just by chance, you were here.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

I went to BYU, got my master's degree there, and uh had a couple of internships, and then ended up working at the Utah State Hospital, which is kind of high-level end of the road for a lot of a lot of kids. Um, and I ended up loving it there. And over the years, my wife, I would come home and we'd have conversations, uh, you know, with things that I could share with her. And she would comment and say, You've got some really good, you know, information and this could be helpful for other people. And she started the social media and set me in front of a camera and and and the rest is history, and that and that's how that started.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

So were you comfortable with that? Because you seem very comfortable. Was it something odd to you in that context?

SPEAKER_00 2:09

A little bit. It was, you know, I I had some anxiety about it and stuff. Um, but I did actually feel like I did have some things to share. I I was uh experiencing a lot of consistent issues with uh similar families over and over again. And so I would just be regurgitating a lot of things and lessons that I've learned over the years to try to help these families out and help their kids kind of reconnect with them. So, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

I would think that you connect with kids really well and I I think quickly because your demeanor. That's why I think when you came into my feed, I was like, this guy's different. You know what I mean? You're just you're just very you've got a very sweet nature about you and I think that probably I mean, I don't know, I'm not speaking for you, but is that does that work in your favor?

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Um yeah, I think you know, where that comes from, I appreciate the compliment. And I think where that comes from is I've had a lot of diverse experiences in my life from early childhood. I'm originally from Georgia. I I was raised in a family that was very poor. And then as far as like diversity and things, I I grew up, I was a minority in school. Um, and so I had a lot of different exposures to uh different cultures. My mom is Greek Orthodox, um, so I I experienced a lot of Greek Orthodox stuff. My dad is LDS, so on that side of things. Um, and so I think over the years, I just kind of watched a lot of uh different cultures and individuals and how people interacted and tried to learn from them what worked. Um, because in my family, things were not working. You know, like I said, my dad being a blue-collar worker, he worked for the post office. He would come home and and it was, you know, he'd sit down in front of the TV and he'd dole out disciplines or things to us. And and the main side I saw to him growing up as a kid was kind of this angry aggressive side. You know, because and and nothing really against him. I think that's happened for years, but he's a hard worker and kind of that mentality of I I do all the work and I shouldn't have to take care of things at home. Right. Um, and so that's kind of where where what I where I came from.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

And so as a kid, could you tap into that, like going, I mean, you obviously knew that about him, but did you know as a kid, like this isn't serving us as like kids? Like this isn't working as a parent to a child.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yeah, I I think I figured that out, you know, and I have to be careful what I say. I actually love my father. He has come a really long way, um, very different than what he was before. Um, he had four sons, so there were four boys, and and uh a lot of chaos, not a lot of money, a lack of of energy. And so I experienced that and would often sit and ponder and think, you know, how do I avoid this? You know, how do how do I avoid um his anger? How how can maybe I influence his mood and change his mood? And I was just a young kid thinking of this kind of stuff. That's heavy. Yeah. And so I I kind of learned over time that there were some things that I could do that could alter uh his mood when he got home. One of those things was if the house was clean. Um, and so I I kind of would straighten things up before he would get home because I recognized that we would have more peace in the house if the house were clean. And so I I I would kind of change behaviors and do things. And then I would often go back and and think and say, you know, when I'm a dad, I'm not gonna do this or I'm not gonna do that. Um and so I think from an early age, with those with the exposures to different experiences, I think I was able to gain a little bit of wisdom along the way.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

So tell me, when you're when you're dealing with that kind of situation and this is how you're adapting to your circumstances, yeah. A lot of a lot of people will default, and I and I've done this myself to people pleasing. You're trying to make everybody else okay to reduce the chaos, right? Yep. So now as a dad yourself and the field that you work in, how do you how do you balance out that people pleaser versus stepping into your role as an authoritative?

SPEAKER_00 5:53

I agree, I agree with the people pleasing thing. Um, I also uh so so there are these things called core beliefs. And I would say that the the people pleasing kind of that mentality would kind of push you more towards a caretaking core belief. So you're trying to like caretake for what's broken in your family. So you put a lot of obligation on yourself, and sometimes you can overwork yourself, sometimes you can blame yourself for caretaking. Um, and so I think that's kind of how I started developing and eventually became a therapist because I was I was trying to shift behaviors to change outcomes from an early age.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

So I love how you said in uh earlier that you have like empathy for your dad. You could see, like as an adult, as a father yourself, you could kind of go back. Because I think and we talk about our parents a lot, that's all they knew. That's all our parents knew.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

There's not a parenting manual. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

And so you can you can kind of be pissed, maybe in a sense, but you can't really that's the extent of it. Yeah. It can't go any deeper than that because they were just trying to do the best they could.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Yeah. You know, as a kid, um, my dad seemed like I knew a little bit about him when he was at home, and I knew nothing about him when he was gone. And and so there was this individual that I only knew half about. And then when he was there, there I would see this kind of anger and aggression and discipline uh mentality. And that kind of works on the self-esteem of the kids and can kind of lower the self-esteem. But then there were other times randomly throughout my life that I'd see my dad interacting with a new person or whatever, and he was very charismatic and and and I would able to see glimpses of a different person and kind of curious to know who is this dad. I remember a time I walked in going to ask my parents something late at night. I walked in on my dad crying, you know, ne uh next to his bedside. And I'm like, that is so odd. I've never seen that before. What the heck is happening?

SPEAKER_01 7:38

How old are you?

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Um, I was probably about seven. Okay. When when I experienced that. And so it kind of rocked me a little bit. And I'm like, is dad, you know, I looked at dad as he's the authoritative figure. Um, he's he's the doler of the discipline, and here he is crying. What's going on? So one of the things I would say that that's this this story is probably common for a lot of people. One of the things I would say to dads today is don't be a stranger. Um, there are parts of your life that your kids may not know about. Have your kids gone to work with you? Do you talk to them a little bit about what you do so that they can see you in different environments and and kind of can learn from you throughout that? And instead of having a dad that's kind of half there, it felt like, you know, growing up.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

See, I really like that. The question I have though is if the kids see dad at work and dad's thriving, happy, charismatic, and then they see dad at home, stressed out, mad, angry, disciplinary, it almost feels like you're getting ripped off.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Yeah, yeah. And and also the kids can internalize that. Is it because of me? Yeah, is it is this because of me, right? And then I've I've worked with, like I said, I worked with extreme families. Um, and a lot of times there's separation in families and divorce and things like that that happen. And kids take that away with them, right? So, so it in that very experience, I might be having to do therapy with a kid who thinks they were the problem. They were the issue why mom and dad got a divorce because dad wasn't happy when he was at home. Um, and so kids internalize that stuff and we have to work through that. So we could do better at parents, but also I would say um that there are a lot of things that we are doing right that we don't know that we're that that what we're doing is right.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

What about being vulnerable? We talk about that and and just I think in general that helps with relationships, your spouse, friends, and your kids, but where is the line where you're too vulnerable? You know what I mean? Where it's where it can do the opposite and make them freaked out or feel like they're insecure or something.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Well, yeah, you can scare your kids. Um, I think a good segue into this conversation would be my wife, uh, when she was 28, she was diagnosed with MS, multiple sclerosis, and we had to explain that to our kids and be somewhat vulnerable there. And so they had a lot of questions, and so we would talk to them at uh at their age. And I think your wife uh She's dealing with Parkinson's. So we talked about that the last time, yeah. Because we we're very honest with him to an extent. Yeah, to an extent. So you can't if you go too far down the rabbit hole and give them too much information, you can give them a lot of anxiety. And so I think an important thing is just to pay attention to their level of development, answer the questions that they have, and you would be surprised um that there may or may not be follow-up questions. They may be satisfied with the original answer that you give them. Being vulnerable in front of your children, I would probably steer this and I would say it's important to show different emotions in front of our children. It's helpful for them to understand there's more than just anger, there's more than just sadness, right? We get lonely, um, we get embarrassed, right? Those are some hard emotions to show. But it can help our kids kind of understand that when they feel those emotions, it's okay for them to feel them too. When we're oversharing, I think in therapy, they they teach us a lot, be careful not to overshare, right? So um if if we're oversharing with our kids, they can then start to worry about us. And if you catch on to that, you're probably sharing a little too much and being a little too vulnerable with them. But I would say a healthy amount of vulnerability in a family uh in front of your children is is good.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Conversation that I have a lot with Axel, without I don't go like like too deep with this and I don't do it too often, but I do when it comes up, when it's naturally coming up, and that is I'll say, you know, as you get older, you're gonna have moments where you feel depressed. And we talk about that, you know, just where you're just feeling down. And because I want to get the point across, like you can't do it by yourself. It's like you have to reach out for help, whether that's talking to somebody, whether, you know, if mom and I are still around, or if it's a friend or family member, or if and he's like, Well, I'll just call a therapist if I need to. I said, that's great. I said, that's awesome. But I said, it's more than that. It's like people in your life, in your daily life, it you can't do it alone. Especially being a boy, that worries me because you know, we've talked about moments in our lives where thank God, you know, I've got a really good friend, family support group or network. But there were moments, there were periods of my life where I could easily isolate, you know, how quickly and easily it can happen.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

It really can. And from talking to you, I think you'd probably do a pretty good job with Axel. And I would say if that's great advice to give him, and I think that it he would take that advice, uh, recognizing that he can have that conversation with his dad. And I think that that opens the door and makes it more okay for him to reach out to other people. But you make a really good point with isolation. When I'm working with families and and a kid is admitted, um, that's one of the biggest factors that I see is that kid is completely isolated from their family for one reason or another. Um, they often get uh in what we call a negative feedback loop where the parent is often trying to catch them doing something that's wrong to correct that behavior, and the kid doesn't get a whole lot of positive feedback and they tend to isolate. And so with that isolation, uh, we can make some terrible choices. I've met kids who have been isolated for long periods of time, and and the thinking processes and the ideas that they come up with are fantastical, and some of them are really dangerous. And so it's helpful to have that connection, but how do we do that? Right. How do we prevent our kids from isolating away from us? How do we keep them connected? These are questions I think that a lot of dads and a lot of uh families are asking. I mean, I could go down this rabbit hole, but there's so many different things that we can do to help our kids stay connected. One of those things I would say would be consistency, and I would say would be the presence of the parent. I was telling you uh about my camp trip that uh that I recently went on. We had a uh me and my son, he's 12. Um, we went on a camp trip and we went to Wyoming and we hiked a mountain called Table Mountain, um, which is right in front of the Grand Tetons. It was it's an amazing hike. It's a very difficult hike. It's the first large hike that my son's ever been on. Um, before we went on this uh camp trip, he had told me, uh, Dad, I don't think I can do it. We looked it up online, it was gonna take hours. It was a it was a big hike. And he said, I don't think I'm gonna do it. And I was a little thankful because my hip was hurting and you know, I'm getting old now, so I'm sure it was something else. But um I I was fine with not doing it. Uh, but in the back of my mind, I wish we could do this, you know, we could get through it. So right before we went on this uh camp trip, we were reviewing some of the details of it, and my dad, and and my son turned to me and he said, Dad, I want to do it. I want to do this hike. Wow. And he and he said this phrase to me. He said, Commit, don't quit. And I said, Okay, commit, don't quit. And is it something that you've said to him? Do you know you said no before? This came from him. I love it. This came from him. And so he said, Commit, don't quit. And I said, Okay. And and I said, We're doing this hike, and I got prepared for it, and we all got prepared for it to do the hike. So we go to start it, and uh, the trail, the sign on the trail says this is the face trail, uh, not developed, not recommended. Um, but we went up it anyway. Um, it took us about 10 hours to do the hike. Along the way, we we kind of fell back in the back of the group, and another dad and his son kind of tagged along and they were in the back as well. What ended up happening through this camp trip is at varying different times, each of us wanted to quit. And the other father and myself both had this kind of agreement that we we just knew without talking that we wanted our sons to make it to the top. And so um, with our language kind of going up, one of them would say, Hey, I can't go any farther. I want to stop. And we'd say, Well, that's okay. We can stop here if we need to. We didn't want to pressure them. You've made it far enough. Um, and we would have this language all through. And as dads, we talked our way all the way up that mountain. Right before we made it to the top, my son actually stopped and he broke down in tears and he said, Dad, I can't do this. And I said, You don't have to. You've look how far you've come. And and we were up there, and he said, I can't breathe. The, the, there's not a lot of air up here. And I said, That's fine. We can just sit here for a second. And then I said to him after he was able to calm down, I said, Commit, don't quit. And and he got a little blink in his eye and he said, Yeah, and we went and we went to the top and we made it. Wow. Um, and so it was a great experience um with my son. And during that event, later that night, when we were at the we were sitting around the campfire, I had asked him if he wanted to play a game with me and spend a bit a little bit more time with me. And he wanted to to play with the friends at the campfire. And I said, Well, you don't want to spend time with me. And he's like, Dad, I've I've been spending a ton of time with you. And and the interesting thing on this trip is we didn't do a lot of talking. I was just walking, you know, hiking next to him. But he felt connected. But he felt connected. So the presence, I would say, surprisingly, as dads, we tend to think that we need to sit down and have deep conversations with our kids. And those things are really healthy. Yeah. Um, but when we're there, that's that's really what matters.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

And truly there. Yeah. And not like on your phone, because I can be guilty of it and I catch myself and sometimes I don't. Sometimes he'll call me out.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

You know, but I mean, that's so important. Even if you're not talking, you gotta be present though. You gotta be there.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

Yeah. I love that. Just holding that space. Yeah. Because a lot of times I say I overexplain and it starts off innocent. Like, if you make that choice, it's gonna lead to this. I'm like, how did we get to making that choice going to jail one day? I don't know, like where we're probably checked out about three times. Yeah. Minus just like sitting there with them, and you don't even have to say anything to your point. But man, they just they just that's all we crave. I think just human nature anyway is just having people with us. Yeah. It does. Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

It does. So talking about hard things, I'll I'll just be a little vulnerable. Uh, life has been really difficult for us lately. Um, if you haven't noticed, we haven't done a lot of posts on our Instagram. Um, and that's on purpose. That's a choice uh that we made. So in the field that I work, I work in high-level care. I'm often arguing with insurance companies to try to keep the kid in care. And and just surprisingly, around this time frame, um, some policies are ending or deductibles are renewing. And so we've got insurance companies that are trying to cancel these kids, some of which are suicidal, like actively. Um and and so I have this these past few months, I have just been grinding, spending hours and hours doing paperwork trying to convince the insurance company that this kid is a danger to themselves and they need to stay in treatment. And unfortunately, it's a broken process. Um, I have uh a couple of just to give you a little bit of insight into it. Um, if I'm if we're denied a kid coverage, um, we can appeal it. It goes to what we call a peer-to-peer. And a peer-to-peer is where we're on the other end of the phone with a doctor or sometimes a nurse practitioner. And and a lot of times the person's not even in the mental health field. And we've got to convince them that the kid needs to stay into treatment. And so I am working my tail off, and and I have minutes in a day, right? I went and my job day, I have minutes. And obviously that's gonna take away from my personal life and my family life as well. And so I was doing an insurance review, um, prepared absolutely everything, crossed all my I's dotted on my T's. And the doctor on the under other end of the phone said that it was the best review that he had ever had. And I made my case why this kid was suicidal, need to stay into treatment. But he he his response to me was, but I can't give you more days.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Come on. Yeah. Um, and I'll tell you one other experience, so just so you can kind of get the idea. Um, we went to a peer-to-peer and then we appealed another, we appealed that one because the kid was even more dangerous. This is a different kid. So I had to go to a panel, and the panel is I'm I'm there on the phone with like 12 different individuals. They go around the room and introduce everybody. And as I'm on the phone listening, I'm like, there's nobody really in this room that isn't in the behavioral health field. There's somebody that's been like got their bachelor's and something, but it's not there. And so their their response to me on the phone when I'm talking to 12 people is um, hey, so explain to us why you feel like this kid needs to stay in treatment. And and and I'm like, Well, don't you know? And at the end of the call, um, turns out, and this is a second, this is uh above a peer-to-peer, it's the panel. Uh, turns out that they didn't even read the appeal. They knew nothing about the case when they called me and they expected me in minutes to explain to them the reason why this kid needed to be into treatment. Um, I was actually sitting outside of my wife's ultrasound doing this panel. Um, and and we'll this this is new news. My wife is pregnant, so we'll talk about that as well. Um, because I I knew that this kid needed to stay into treatment. So this has naturally taken away from my life, right? My energy. And I've listened to to some of your other podcasts and and how we manage energy. I really like that one. Um, and uh and and us overworking ourselves. The conundrum I think that I'm in is as a caretaker, one, uh learning that from an early age, and then with lives on the line, too. And so it's really hard to step away from this life. So, how do you then go home and have energy for your family?

SPEAKER_01 20:54

And not take that. So, not not not only not having energy, but yeah, taking that with you.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

That's heavy stuff. Yeah. So um, so during this process, and and maybe some dads can relate, um, you know, the feeling you work all day, you you're exhausted on energy, and you get home and you just want to lay in your bed for a minute, or you want to lay in your bed for the rest of the night, watch TV or whatever. Um, and so I started to do that. My I found myself slipping into that and finding myself spending less time with my kids. My kids would come up, Dad, hey, you want to do this? And I'm like, hey man, I I just been working all day, I can't. And and over time, I I did not like that. And so I had to stop. You know, we stopped doing the Instagram, and I would give myself about 45 minutes or an hour when I got home. I'd lay in bed, I'd watch my show. And then I would have to have this mental energy in my mind. And these are things I would motivate dads to do. You can do this, you only need about 45 minutes to unwind, but you can push yourself out of bed, just like you get up every morning and slam both your feet down. On the on the floor, hit the alarm button and go to work, you can do the same thing for your kids. And uh and it's a matter of energy, it's a matter of being of time management. And so that's kind of the process that I've been going through lately is how do I balance these things? And I have spent more time with my kids during this season of my life than I was before. Um, because I'm pushing and forcing myself to do so. You're intentional about it. I'm intentional about it.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Yeah. And we talked about that. So when we got let go from the radio station April 2023, uh, and then that was a very dismal kind of didn't know what was in the future kind of time. But that being said, losing the job, having the time, that summer, I look back, was one of the best summers of my life, you know, where I was spending time with Axel and Tammy, even though I, you know, we knew we were doing the podcast, we knew that we had things, but we didn't know it was still the fear of the unknown. I didn't know how any of it was gonna turn out. I just knew at that moment, like spending that time, it was like magical. It hurts you.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

It hurts you, doesn't it? Yeah, it it it uh gives you something to work towards. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

So some of the dads that are listening, they're gonna be like, well, what kind of things once you commit to getting out of the bed at that time, what are some of the things that you do to connect with your kids?

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Well, put your cell phone on the charger and leave it there. Um, and then go out and just be present with them. That's the first place to start. You know, if you're not normally present with your kids, that one of the mistakes a lot of dads can make is hey, I'm gonna be present. And that also means I'm gonna control and discipline the family life and change things, but the kids aren't used to that. So that can give them some anxiety. So if you're gonna start being present, be present with them. You can sit on the couch while they watch their show or do whatever they do. So when they can look around the room and see you, that's that's step one. I I think as far as getting into the conversations, that's gonna be step two for some of these dads that are trying to dig themselves out of this isolation hole, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

So can we go back to when you were talking about doing the hike with your son uh and he said I can't, because I'm kind of in this now, or we're in this now with Axel. And I've said to him, like, I don't want to hear the word can't. My thing is like you tell yourself you can't do something, your mind is gonna listen. It's either your best friend, your best asset, your mind, or it's your worst enemy. So what you tell it is is what it's gonna do. Yep. But I don't know if if I'm making it worse. Now he doesn't say I can't, but he's like, I don't know if I can do that. So he gets around, you know, the can't thing. I don't know if I can do that. I'm like, dude, with that attitude, you're not gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

So what how do you get around that?

SPEAKER_00 24:27

One of the things we you could do kind of growing up, a lot of times we tend to praise our kids when they complete something or they accomplish something. We forget to praise them for their effort, right? And so if they're putting in effort and they're trying and you're praising them along the way, that's kind of motivating them to kind of see, I can, I can eventually do this because I'm putting in the effort, enough effort will get me there. And and so with my experience with the hiking, I would also say it's helpful to probably have a couple of experiences where you can spend time with your son where both of you persevere and do something hard. Uh, because it was it was really connecting for us to get through this hike together and to persevere together. But I would say without the other dad present, and this is where, you know, this brotherhood, dadhood is is sometimes really isolated. We need to have more of a brotherhood as far as bouncing ideas and helping each other. But without the other dad, I would not have been able to have this full-blown experience where my son was able to commit and not quit, where we could persevere. So, so as you spend some time with your kids, you want to do some things that are more difficult with them and persevere through those things and let them see you working and struggling as well, so that they have that as an example.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Were these dads or the dad that you were with, was that a friend or somebody that you met on the trail?

SPEAKER_00 25:43

It was a it was a friend, um, an acquaintance before, but now definitely a friend. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

For sure. For sure. See, they built that bond when you do those hard things together. And we didn't even talk much at all. Yeah. Well, and I don't think sometimes as men, we just don't need to talk in the moment. Yeah. But having someone there, again, it's that presence. It was that motivating factor. Like, I think we're competitive by nature at times, and it's like, well, if he's not quitting, then I'm I'm not quitting. And you don't have to say that to each other, but you kind of give those looks. And it's like, all right, we got each other through this. I love that. Yeah. So let's talk about uh the baby, the baby that's kidding.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Yeah, I I'm a fairly spiritual person. I try to stay spiritually connected. Um, but I will say I've been exposed to a lot of different faiths and a lot of different spiritualities. Like I said, my mom was Greek Orthodox, my dad used to be Methodist. Um, I've been to a lot of different churches and religions and stuff. And so with that spirituality and faith, we we felt like there was one more. Um, and you know, after my wife was diagnosed with MS when she was 28, that was it. Like we were like two and we're done. Um, but over the years, um we've just kept feeling like there was another kid and and specifically that it was a girl. And uh, and and most all of my brothers have boys, and you know, I've had boys, and so having a girl is kind of a bit of an enigma. But we hoped for that. And um, over the years, what I had always said to my wife is if we can afford it and if we have the space, we will have another kid. Um, and it's it's really interesting how one miracle after another happened. Um, my wife's brother is a builder, and uh he he came in and said, Hey, I can put an addition on your home. Oh, wow. And I can do it for a really good deal. Nice. And I said, Well, we don't really have anything, even if it were a good deal. And he said, We'll work through that. And we were able to get an addition put on our home um without going into debt, which was amazing. And uh, and so once that edition was complete, my mind and our and we went back to this remembrance of hey, we're gonna we need to follow through and we're gonna have a kid. And so we uh we decided that we would do that. And this year, at the beginning of this year, when we were doing our health insurance and and talking to the individual about that, we we told them that we had an extra member in our family. And my wife wasn't pregnant at that time. Got a little nervous, and but she got pregnant, and we have a baby girl due on December the 21st of this year. Oh, congratulations. That's so awesome!

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Super excited. Yeah, yeah, super excited. And how's Soraya doing? Is she good?

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Um, she's doing well. She's uh she's four months pregnant now. Um, she's out of her first trimester, but her first trimester was just a nightmare. Um, she she was just really sick. We were spending a lot of money on fast food because that's the only thing that she could keep down. But with this experience of learning that my wife is now pregnant, I've got to readjust my my dadness. I've got to relearn a lot of things, and I'm gonna have a daughter now instead of a son. And it's gonna be very different. Um, and so those are a lot of things that I'm kind of thinking about now is is what kind of life do I want to give her and what kind of example and how much time do I want to give her? And obviously, I want to give her all the time. Um, but these are things I'm thinking about because I haven't had a daughter. What about the boys? How are they? Are they excited? Um, they they're both really excited. The uh the youngest one is a little upset that he's not gonna be the youngest anymore. So, because as the youngest in our family, we give them a little bit of privileges, they get to go first with this thing or with that thing, right? So that they so to help with that possibility of an inferiority complex, but you give them a little bit to do. So he's like, I'm gonna be a middle child now. And I'm like, Well, hey, I was the middle child. And he's like, Okay, well, that that's all right. Um, and so I think our kids are kind of excited about it um as well, and also they're great. I've spent a lot of time with them helping them in conversations, talking to them about mom and their MS and ways to help. And they're just great little young men that are around the house helping my wife whenever she needs it. So it's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

That is cool, that's so awesome.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

So going back to your dad, your dad is still with us? Uh-huh. He is. So he's 84. 84. He's a Vietnam vet. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. We just uh this past weekend, we just went shooting together and uh I was able to take my youngest, and he shot his 22, um, which was really fun. He calls it a sniper rifle because it has a scope on it. Um, but so so these are kind of things that we expose our kids to just so that they have that experience, but obviously under safety, obviously under watch, obviously under clear communication. Um, but yeah, I love my dad. Um, he's changed so much. Um, and I don't blame him for the life that we had growing up because I I understand it. I get it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Yeah, you have that empathy as a father, and we talk about that. You can reflect and go look back and go, I I get it now. I mean, as a from man to man, father to father, yeah, I can't even imagine what what you had to deal with and the stress and and all that that you took on. Yeah. Have you had conversations with him uh over the years or no?

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Um yeah, we've we've had some conversations, I think, um uh over the years. Uh my dad has really stepped it up. So when my wife was diagnosed with MS, we we obviously needed some help. They sold their house in Georgia. They moved out here, they lived in our basement for a little while to kind of help out around the house. Um, and and then um they ended up finding a place four minutes from us. My dad, I think, as far as the conversations go, maybe not as much, but maybe the behaviors, the, the, the, the way he's tried to repair and the way he's tried to be there now makes all the difference. I don't think he we need to have that deep conversation. He shows us, you know. He's he's changed.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Yeah. Because that was one of the things when my dad was passing away, the nine days that he was in the hospital. Uh, and then, you know, there's only a couple days before they put him the morphine, and then he was, you know. So I had some of the conversations, but I wish I would have had, and we've talked about this, and I don't even think they hit me until after he had passed. But just as I think back to, you know, he was in trucking and it was like in the 70s and 80s, and when they deregulated trucking, and it got really to the point where he was losing his job. Like, it seems like a lot. He was getting laid off. And and it didn't hit me until after he passed, like how heavy and how stressful that had to have been. Yeah. But we never felt any like insecurity as far as I remember him always saying, like, you'll never have to worry about the bank coming to get the house. That's what he and we knew what it meant because he told us what it meant. He's like, You'll never have to worry about us losing the house or anything like that. So we never felt that. Yeah. But that being said, I wish I would have had conversations when he was alive to say, man, and just talk to him about it. Like, how how stressful was that?

SPEAKER_00 32:10

How did you get through it? Yeah. A lot of dads tend to suffer in silence. Yeah, you know, for sure. We do and we keep things in, and I think it's a societal expectation, you know. The it's okay for us to show anger, right? But anger is what we call a secondary emotion. It's the safe emotion to show socially, but under but because all the other ones were a little insecure to show, we're not, we're not, we're insecure showing that we're lonely. We're in we're insecure of showing even our insecurities. And so anger is okay a lot of times, but all these other emotions and deep, deep feelings are often not addressed with us men. And we we accept it. We're like, oh, we'll just be tough and we'll we'll bury those things. Stuff it down. Stuff it down. And that's not healthy. So so what do we do? Um, how does a dad get and talk about what's going on? Um, he he definitely needs a non-judgmental space. I actually had an experience the other day with my wife. I was thinking about this, and I was I was I was struggling, and I I talked openly with her, and I recognized that some of the as the as the words were coming out, they were more intense than what I was thinking. Um and I'm like, why is that? That it so I'm not really practiced in explaining what's going on inside. And I think maybe I was looking for validation or empathy, but my wife, without judgment, was just like, I'm just here to listen and so let's talk. And and I talked it all out. And then after I talked it all out, I said, I said back to her, you know, I actually changed my mind. I don't think I feel that way. And I really appreciate you talking to me. I feel amazing. And really, it was an outlet for me without judgment. It wasn't someone going to come in and say, Well, maybe you need to do this differently, right? It was someone that could hear me in a in a neutral format, and I was able to get it out. And that's rare a lot of times for us guys.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

Yeah, because a lot of guys feel like, and it's almost like the rule of one, yeah, right? Like if I open up to you and you shut me down, I'm never opening up to you again. And I think a lot of guys have that fear that especially if they do that with their partner and the partner doesn't accept it, then now we have a even a bigger wedge, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:11

Yeah. Also, I think guys can perceive that as like showing a sign of weakness. Yeah. Like they don't want to say because then it's like now I'm weak, but that goes back to the vulnerability thing.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

And I would say in that aspect, you're weaker if you're holding on to these emotion yourself and letting them wreck wreak havoc within you. And so you've got to find some way to get it out.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

And it changes that tonality. We talk about it a lot, like you were just saying it was coming out a little more aggressive than you were actually feeling because it was bottled up in there. It was bottled up in there. And then after we we've talked about it having to go back to our kids because sometimes I do the same thing, and it's like, listen, guys, that came off. Like I was angry. I'm not really angry. I was actually scared in that moment that you were gonna be injured. Yeah, and the fear of you getting hurt came out as anger. Yeah, and that's not on you, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

That that is amazing that you go back to your kids and you're able to do that. I have met adults that believe that it is against the law to apologize to your children and to take accountability in front of them, which is so wrong. That's insane. So wrong. And so uh, but how do you do that, right? And that I've also seen in families over the year different parenting styles, right, that can affect the dynamics of a family. So, for example, we might have a dad who's maybe more authoritative, right? He he's he's like, these are the rules, this is the structure. And you might have a mom that's maybe more loving and you might consider more permissive. What can happen in a dynamic like that with when you're trying to discipline your kids if you don't have a united front? Is the dad comes in hot, right? After yeah, I see you, you're doing this thing, it's wrong, you're grounded for a month, or you're grounded for a week. And then the mom's like, Well, that doesn't seem appropriate. I'm here with the kids most of the day, and I think grounding for a month is overdoing it. And so she kind of goes in and kind of undoes that. But what that does to your kids is it gives them mixed messages, and so you're not getting a united front from your parents, so you're getting a lot of confusion. So I've seen kids gravitate towards one parent, the maybe the more permissive one, and actually start to block out or isolate the authoritative or the authoritative parent. And then I've seen parents who so authoritative is is is a is a good and healthy way of doing it, but then there's this authoritarian, which kind of presses it a little bit further. And so what I've seen with parents trying to balance this is if you start off as authoritative, you can become authoritarian because you're trying to use more force to discipline to counteract the permissiveness of the other parent. Terrible, terrible thing. So we need to have a united front. And depending on whatever parenting style you have, it needs you need to discuss your consequences previously before you go in hot. And and because you'll have to go back and apologize.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

Um, but I'll be honest, I have done that. And um, you know, I'm not begging for their forgiveness. I'm still holding the line, you know, the consequence is still the same, but I came in a little hot. And by setting that example to them, they're gonna struggle with these same things. They're my sons, they're gonna struggle with their, you know, they're growing, they're developing their hormones, they're gonna experience the same stuff. So they need to see how how we apologize, how we correct that behavior. Um, and so being an example for them is fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

So I do have a question for you, Tommy, here. So um, because I know I'm not the only dad out there with this situation. I have a very my my oldest child is very type A, very traditional sense of the alpha energy, right? He loves guns, he wants to go fight, he wants to do all the things that like society says men should do. Yeah. And I wear my emotions more on my sleeve. I want to be like, I want everybody to be symbiotic, good. How do you recommend in those situations of being able to still create that space for him? Because I don't want to take it away from him because part of it will serve him. It's who he who he is.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

And you might feel a little uncomfortable fully engaging with some of those things. For sure. Um the answer you might not like, but I would say uh if he's got his things he likes, it's time for you to kind of do some of those things with him. And and while you're doing that, because it's gonna be really hard to kind of shift his likes to your likes. Sure. I'm not sure what age he is, but I'm assuming he's he's gonna be 12 in September.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

He's 11.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Okay, yeah, yeah. So um so doing some of those things with them, like for example, with my kids, if they're into basketball, I'll shoot some hoops with them. Um, they're into video games. I'll play some of their games with them. Sure. And then that gives me a stage to have influence, right? And so so you can then connect and and you guys will balance out together and you'll understand each other, I think, a lot better if you're doing those things with them.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

So even if in uh because uh I struggle with this, like he has screen time and it's it's limited, so we you know, but he watches these and they're kid friendly, but uh as you guys know, I'm sure you see these videos and they're just ridiculously and I I don't say it out loud, but they're stupid. The shorts, all the YouTube shorts. Yes, YouTube shorts. So even with something like that, sitting down with him, not saying it, just kind of watching it, because he's always saying, like, Dad, watch this one. And I'll watch it and I'm like, oh my gosh. And I'm trying not to roll my eyes because I'm like, how do you think this is funny?

SPEAKER_00 39:17

This is so funny. Yeah, I've I've done that very thing, and that's yeah, you're exactly right. So you sit down with them and you talk to them uh and spend some time with them doing that. You mentioned screen time, and and I I I probably would do a disservice if I don't talk a little bit about this with our kids, but it's become the babysitter now for our children. And you know, that's we are we blaming our parents for doing that? I mean, our whole society has changed. Sometimes now we're having to have two parents work to pay the bills. The amount of time and energy we have for our kids is just not available. We have to make it though. And so with with all of that, we've got to ensure that we can find ways to spend time with them even when we don't want to. Um, but with screen times in general, with the kids watching it every single day, um, there's research that shows that two hours is kind of our time, is our max time. So one of the things I've done at home, um, when I was giving my kids screen time initially, I would have, you know, I would do my relaxed time and I'd come down to spend some time with them and they're watching a YouTube short or something. I'm like, oh, they're not available. And so we instituted this plan in our house where we're doing screen time every other day. And and the benefit there is too much screen time can create all kinds of things, uh, neurological issues in your kids' brain can increase the likelihood of them having addictions in the future and things like that. So we want to manage this thing. Um, and so we went to every other day, and the benefit to going to every other day is our kids get bored and they're available. And and so if they're available on board, they're like, hey dad, what do you what are you doing? And I'm like, well, let's do something. And so I have an opportunity now on the off day to do something with them. And then on the day that they get to play, they get their little bits of time. Um, but it's healthier for them that way because they can experience life instead of being plopped down in front of a TV all day.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

I love that. When he says that I'm bored, I'm like, some of the best innovations, creations come from being bored. You know? Yeah. Uh so let's let's talk about the gaming thing because Axel is almost 10. And when we kind of talk about this, Tammy and I, like, is it a disservice that he does? Because he doesn't have a gaming system, and his friends do. And we're kind of like on that, we know how we can see how addictive just you know, with the little time that he gets, but sometimes it gets, you know, we have like an hour that's set, but sometimes it's more than that. We're like, dude, we told you the time is up. So we're afraid to kind of say yes to a gaming system because we can see into the future.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

Yeah, this was a thing that we actually struggled with as well. And as uh our kids got older, we started noticing that when they weren't getting screens, they would go to their friend's house next door and get the screens. So now they're in a totally different home. They're getting influences in a totally different home. Who knows what else, uh, what other accesses that they have. And so my wife and I talked and we said, okay, we need to have these things available here, so their friends come here. Okay. Um, and we actually get a lot of kids knocking on our door throughout the day. My little ring doorbell goes off, and there's another kid at the door because so they're coming here, they're coming to a place that I know is safe and secure, that we can have good influences on them. Um, and that's I I and so we we kind of got some of the devices so that they could use, but we manage and monitor those things. One of the things that I um I heavily um monitor is no electronics in the car. They stay at the TV. So that's where they're at. They don't move anywhere around the house. Um, that's where they stay, that's their home. So that way we're not being distracted all day um taking it with us in the car and and being half there, and that's not unhealthy for our kids.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

See, that's a tough one. This is one that I've tried to implement, but my wife is not on the same page with that. So, like when we're driving to the cabin or we're driving somewhere, and I'm kind of looking forward to just even sometimes just in silence, but then maybe a conversation comes up naturally. Yeah, but then he's on the iPad. He's like watching the iPad.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

Think about it this when you were young and you were doing these long car trips with your family, what did you do? You looked out the window, you watched the world go by, you looked at the mountains, you looked at the trees, you noticed other cars. You were bored, you were trying to do anything you could to occupy your brain, but that stuff's healthy. Yeah. That stuff's way healthier than being on a screen.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

You were engaged in life, and it's just kind of passing you by. But this is yeah, so it's so what do you do in that situation where it's like I guess I gotta sit down with you?

SPEAKER_00 43:24

You've got to have a united front. Yeah, it's yeah, you've got to sit down and discuss that.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

Dude, I'm about to deal with that here in a little bit. But I think I'm also viewing it sometimes because the kids will sit there on their little tablets and they'll they'll watch movies or or play games. I kind of take that moment too, just to connect with Katie. This is great because we get to have a lot of conversations and just kind of on the road trip, I'm driving, we're chatting. Yeah. I know the kids are in the back on their thing, but it's like sometimes if not, I also feel like I don't get to connect with Katie because they're like, Hey dad, hey dad, so time management, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:57

Time management, routines. Um, one thing's I would say that my family didn't have growing up that it has now are traditions and routines. These things are so healthy. I had no idea when anything was happening at home, when I was going to sit down with my parents, or when we were going to do anything. But when I got married, my wife's family was very routine, and so they had traditions. They would do uh family dinner once a month, or or they would all go see a movie at this time. And so we've adopted some traditions in our family. We on Sunday, we like to have breakfast for lunch. We call it Cinnamon Roll Sunday. And so our kids always know that there's going to be a time to sit with dad and mom at the table together as a family and they know what we're going to do. Those routines give them a sense of security. And so it's if we don't have routines and we don't have traditions in our family, I would implement them, find ways to do it. So your kids have consistency in a chaotic world.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

I love that. Yeah, that's so good. Because we all need it. Even as adults, we need it. We do that.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

We do. We need discipline, right? We need to know what to expect. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

So here's a question. When you go out to do an activity, sometimes, and I'm saying we're going to go to the park and we're just going to play, right? But there's always this underlining, and I know it's me. Like, there's this underlining, but maybe we'll get a treat or something after. Or maybe we'll go out to dinner after, right? Something that always costs money. Always something on top that like is this expectation. Like, are we going to get a treat and we're not going for ice cream? And then I get I get furious as the dad. I'm like, is the time not good enough, dude? Like, do we always have to have something else? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

Yeah. You know? So um I I I mean, there's probably lots of different reasons why that happens. Maybe because you want more out of those experiences and the kids have learned over time. Dad, dad wants a little extra. You want some icing on top. So where so I'm expecting the icing. Where's it at? And so that can be a thing too. But uh a lot of that can be healthy, those random spontaneous. So you want to make it random, spontaneous, so you can be the fun dad. You can you can do some things for your kids, be fun with them, be playful with them, um, take advantage of the time you have with them. And it sounds to me like that's what you're doing. Yeah, if your kids expect a little bit of icing every activity, so what? I think you'll be fine.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

I think the key is I just have to keep my mouth shut after the end and be like, Okay, for that, we're going up. Just because they say it after, like, are we gonna grab anything? I don't, I know what the reaction doesn't have to be like, is it not good enough? Yeah, you know, just let it be.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

You can just say something freely and be like, I I I have seen this on Steroids uh with parents, um, sometimes in split families where you where parents are still kind of fighting for the kid's affection, and one of the parents kind of overly showers the kid with additional things and and buys them whatever they want. The problem there is that creates a lot of entitlement. And I would say the entitled kids are some of the hardest kids to work with. Um, there's not a lot of motivation because everything's been given to them. And so we have to set some structure, some expected routines that there's a certain level of effort that needs to be put in in order to obtain certain things. So we don't want to send the wrong message by showering them. Um, but I I'm not suggesting that's happening with you, but I have seen it with other families and it has been.

SPEAKER_02 47:11

Oh, yeah. We still have the chores every day. Yeah, like at first it was like pushback, like we have to do this every day. It was like, yeah, that's how the family operates and we run. When you're part of the family. Now, I mean, sometimes they'll be like, Ugh, I got my chore, but they always still just do it. You jump on it and do it. And it's like, oh, that's good, you know.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

You know, I haven't washed dishes in uh in quite some time. Yes. Um, and I'll explain the process that we use at home, and it's it's very structured and it's very matter-of-fact. If our kids want to have their screen time for the day, they've got to clean up their things, they've got to wash the dishes, make sure their room is clean. And and it it sounds like a lot, the bathroom's clean, et cetera. Starting this off, they struggled, right? And I would have to go down there, Dad. Why do we have to do all of this stuff? Um, and then we also said, Well, you can't hang out with friends if that your chores aren't done. So one day, friend knocked on the door and they said, Hey, friend here, I want to go play with them. And I said, Well, are all are your chores done? No, well, you need to get them done before you play. So they went downstairs and I'm expecting 20 or 30 minutes. Five minutes later, they come back, all done. So I go down and check, and everything was done. Surprisingly, with enough of motivation and time, they've learned to streamline their process of doing their chores so that they could have the benefit and the activities. And so tying an expectation to a benefit is really healthy because it teaches healthy work work ethic. We don't want to do that all the time. We sometimes want to shower them with fun things time to from time to time. We don't want to run our house like a like a business, right? Um, and and so, but yeah, that's healthy for your kids. I often see a lot of kids have very little responsibilities and and are just what you know, watching TV or playing games.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Yeah. What are some uh good ideas as far as for I I guess it would be age appropriate, but like let's say a nine-year-old.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

Things that they're their things, obviously, we start there. So your stuff, obviously, we want to clean that up. Um, and then having them do some additional things like the dishes, so that they're doing a chore that includes others in the house, right? Other people's messes, because if you just assign them chores related to them, then your response is gonna be, well, I didn't make that mess, or I didn't do that. This was so and so, so it's not my responsibility. So you have to be careful with that. If your kids start uh taking, you know, this is this chore is this person's responsibility, this chore is that person's responsibility. We need to have more of a collective. And so when you're with a nine-year-old, I think instituting or having a couple of collective chores along with his personal chores would be healthy.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

It's funny you say that with the dishes, because that's one of Axel's chores is to load the dishwasher, unload the dishwasher. And I remember when he first started doing that, he was like, Well, those aren't my dishes. I'm like, that's not the point. You live here. Exactly. I said, You live here, right? This is you this is our house, and you in order to live here, that's being part of a family.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

Yep, yep. And and it's important, and I'm sure you do this, that we explain to them as often as we can along the way why we do things that we do. So, you know, because you live here, and there are some dads, and I know that you would go deeper than that, but there are other dads that say, because I said so, right? Yeah, and and that that's you're teaching the kid to be obedient and a follower, right? You're not teaching them to be a leader if you're not explaining to them the the reasons why we're teaching and we're doing certain things, why we're doing these chores, why you're having to do other people's chores in the house, because we're all together in this.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

Yeah. I'll say you live here too, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. You live here. Yeah. Yeah. So have you ever thought about, and I know this is probably not the best time, but maybe in the future doing a podcast? Because you would be incredible at it.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

Yeah, I I've I've thought of all kinds of different things. I think uh the place I I work at right now, I absolutely love the people. I'm really good at what I do. Um, it it feels you know altruistic, feeling like you're saving lives on a regular basis and helping families get connected, but it is exhausting. You know, it's overwhelming. Uh and I've been in it for nine years, so so I've made it to the point that I'm I'm I'm able to pay for you know my family life and and provide for them. But I'm kind of at a uh an interesting enigma. If I was to step away and do something else, I might not make as much money. And and as far as me being spiritually connected, if I feel like it's right, it's right. You had mentioned you'd when you lost your job. I think last time I had mentioned that I had resigned from the state hospital due to some circumstances there. It became really difficult uh to try to figure out uh uh my place uh in the world after that. And spiritually, I I felt like I was led to where I'm at today. I remember um sitting down and having a little conversation with my higher power saying, Hey, when and where am I gonna work? I had interviewed all across the valley. I had a lot of people that wanted to hire me, and um, but none of them actually felt right. So in that moment, I I I had some introspection and said, You'll have a job on November the 18th. And I said, November the 18th. And November the 18th, uh since that time I interviewed a place and they wanted to hire me on November the 18th, and that's where I'm at today. And so I have I have tried to break away um, you know, so that I could have more time with my family doing a lot of different things. Um and really it's a matter of what is right for me at that time. So if a podcast is right, that's right for me. I we had to stop with some of the Instagram because it was taking away time for my family, and and that's something I'm gonna defend, and that's something I'm gonna stick with. No, regardless. I love it. Whatever it is.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

Yeah, we talk about being intentional, and and that's kind of like where I'm at in my life. I have to question like, why am I doing what I'm doing? What is this serving? You know, is it serving me? And then I and I kind of go into things now like as a purpose. Like, is this uh another purpose like with this podcast?

SPEAKER_00 52:44

And an interesting thing there that I found is there's a lot of noise in the world. And if we can get out in nature or even be able to pause, do some meditation, do some introspection, we can actually get answers to things and we can get guidance and we can feel confident in that guidance when otherwise we wouldn't. And and so I would say find opportunities, especially as dads, find opportunities for you to have your time of introspection, to have your quiet time to tap into whatever it is you need to tap into so that you can obtain some guidance, especially if you don't have anyone else to talk to and if you're not comfortable talking to other people. It's great advice.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

Love it, man. We appreciate your time today. Oh, thank you. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

We'll put all your information within the podcast description. Sounds great. Cool, and thanks for making the drive. We appreciate it. Okay, yeah, awesome. Absolutely. So make sure you're following us on Instagram and TikTok, dadhood, and then of course dadhood.co. And thanks to Kim, powered by Kim. Thank you, Kim. We'll talk to you soon.