Jameson King: Why So Many Men Feel They’re Never Enough

What happens when your career falls apart, your confidence disappears, and your marriage is hanging by a thread?

This week on the DADHOOD podcast, we’re joined by Jameson King (jameson.j.king)owner of 4Ever Young Cottonwood Heights for one of the most honest conversations we’ve had about what it means to be a husband, father, and man.

Jameson opens up about blending a family with seven kids, the challenges of second marriages, and the “perfect storm” that nearly ended his relationship just one year after getting married. As his career changed, his identity as a provider was shaken, and he found himself chasing validation from every external source—until he hit rock bottom.

We dive into:

• Why so many men struggle with self-worth without realizing it.
• How shame quietly shows up as perfectionism, people-pleasing, and defensiveness.
• The danger of tying your identity to your job, success, or relationships.
• The daily habits Jameson uses to rebuild confidence and emotional health.
• How he and his wife found their way back after a year-and-a-half separation.

This conversation is about far more than physical health. It’s about becoming aware of the stories we tell ourselves—and how changing those stories can change our lives.

A huge thank you to our friends at 4Ever Young Cottonwood Heights for joining us. Their team specializes in hormone optimization, wellness medicine, IV therapy, peptides, aesthetic services, and helping people feel and function at their best.

Connect with Jameson & 4Ever Young Cottonwood Heights

Instagram: @4everyoungcottonwoodheights

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Thanks for listening to the DADHOOD Podcast. If this episode resonated with you, make sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with another dad who’s figuring it out one day at a time.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

We're rolling with our homies. Yep. We're uh recording the episode live. It's the Dadhood Podcast powered by Kil. Yes, it is. And we have uh a friend here, Jamison from Forever Young Cottonwood Heights.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

You guys have a little history, so kind of tell me the story, how you guys hooked up.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Well, the funny thing is the history was you were at a community event there at what they were kind of shopping center in Cottonwood Heights. Yeah. And you were there, and I was like, dude, I love health stuff in general. They just came up and was like, hey, we should try to connect. And you were the one that introduced Bubba Page, who was also on the Dadhood podcast. And yeah, it's just kind of small lake city. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

I love that. So you were there at Forever Young in Cottonwood Heights?

SPEAKER_01 0:46

No, so they were doing like a community event at you know where like the Dollar Tree and stuff is they're tearing down that facility and redo the whole Cottonwood Heights thing. They were having like um booths and vendors and stuff like that. And Jameson was out there promoting his business.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

When we were just talking about that kind of getting together, you're part of a weekly meetup with other businesses, and it's just all about like whatever it is for you, how whatever you can find to kind of build that community, get immersed in that community. That's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

That's right. And as a business, we have a huge I mean, whether it's a business or just us as humans, we want to be connected, and we believe that as a business, it's important to have community involvement. Um that's gonna be more authentic than just blasting through any digital form of advertisement. We do that as well, but um we we want to be connected, involved in the community.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Boy, and getting face to face. We were talking about that, the importance of you know, since the pandemic, there are good things that came out of that. You know, you can work from home, but too much, I think, working from home can turn into isolation. I mean, especially for guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

You know, if you're not careful, you can all of a sudden like, how long has it been since I've seen anybody outside of my family?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

And it's like obviously good to spend that time, but to your point, we're also creatures. We need some friends action, we need just to get out. Feeling the energy, we constantly are talking about that. There's an energetic connection right now, what's going on here, versus if we just live streamed you in on the video, it'd be still great, but it's it's just not the same.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Yeah, right. That's exactly right. One thing I'm it's making me think of is awareness and how often when you've done the work to become healthy emotionally, mentally, then you feel a difference. And if you can keep that up, you feel that vibe. And then when it's missing, when you don't have that interaction over a few days or you're not taking care of yourself, all of a sudden you're like something's missing. If you're aware enough, then you can know how to fix that. But I think there's a lot of men out there that haven't gotten to that place, and so they're still stuck, they don't know what's going on and what's missing in their life, and they're unaware that connection is needed.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Yeah. It's important.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

So what's your story, man? You're from here from Utah originally, or I'm actually not. I grew up in Colorado. Okay. Um so I came out to school in Utah, got stuck. Uh ski or snowboard or I didn't. I came out to BYU. Yep. But did you get into the whole snowboarding scene? Or I grew up skiing and snowboarding way more than I've done here. Okay. Not because uh I dislike Utah ski opportunities, but because affordability. Right. Uh I once I became an adult and had to pay for myself, life changed. Um, and now we've got a bunch of kids, and so getting them up to the mountains, we'd love to do that, just doesn't happen, but still love it. My wife and I go once or twice a year. Wish we did more.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

So did you fall in love with Utah when you came here? Like, I mean, I know you've got kind of the same scenery there in Colorado.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Yeah, there's a lot of similarities. I have some extended family out here, so it wasn't um too foreign. Um, the there's a lot of things, there's so much I love about Utah. Um, there are some things that I miss about Colorado.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

What other things you miss?

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Um, diversity.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

And that's not to say that I can't also love some of the social aspects or the the opposite, the lack of diversity. There's things that we can connect with people um more openly in certain ways that I feel, but at the same time um to to educate my my kids on what it's like to have a more diverse culture and accept it. And I don't think it means that now my kids are racist or something like that. But they just they don't get as many experiences. So that's one thing that I probably miss a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

It's kind of harder to do that unless maybe if you travel or something like that where they can see other, but that can be expensive.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

It is super expensive, especially when you you start adding kids into the equation. It's like man, I remember when Katie and I used to travel, and it's like we could go have a great time. Now it's like, oh man, we got double the cost, everything you know what I mean? Triple the cost, especially these days, quadruple the costs, and it's like, yeah. So you said large family. Let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Yeah, yeah. So my wife and I have a blended family of seven kids. Uh, most of them are teenagers right now. So it's imagine the Brady Bunch, because it really is. I brought three boys, she brought three girls, and then a younger boy, but my boys and her girls are all the same ages. So we have the Brady bunch. That is so wild. We have two 17-year-olds, two 15-year-olds, and two 13-year-olds, and then a younger nine-year-old. Wait, hold up. And they're they were the same ages too? Yeah, within a few months of each other each.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

So Okay, so when you were starting to date and you're talking about this, when you when your wife had mentioned that, were you like, come on?

SPEAKER_00 5:38

I wonder if it hit right away. It was one of those things where it's like, oh great, they'll get along, they'll as you as you go along further, you're like, oh, these are not always a great thing when they're the same ages, different sexes. And yeah, I mean, just last weekend, you know, our daughter is complaining about how boys are in the bathroom because they have to share our bathroom, and vice versa. And it's like it's another layer of this is uh my sister or my brother, but also my stepsister or stepbrother. And the layer of handling those just is challenging. It's challenging. Um, but you know what? We we oftentimes are like we find ourselves in that chasm there, and we stop ourselves and think, well, even if it were all biological, we'd have challenges similarly. We we try to remind ourselves of that, that it's not just because we have a bl blended family that's well, and it teaches them, you know, this is life.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

And as you when you move away from the house and you're on your own, whether it's a roommate or it's a romantic relationship, you're gonna be eventually, most likely, living with someone else. Yeah. This is a good teaching moment. Like, get what I'm saying? Like I get what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

People are different, and you have to have patience, you have to have awareness. I would agree a hundred percent. Uh, I mean, this reminds me of that same situation a week to two weeks ago. And my wife did an amazing job being a moderator and and a very light moderator of helping my son and her daughter to navigate that conversation. And I think maybe with the relationship where it was, it required a bit of intentional coming forth with your concerns and how to address them. And and potentially in a traditional biological family, maybe it's just they go at it. I mean, that's what I did. I feel like I didn't need my parents intervening as much because you know, tell you, yeah, we work it out, right? Um, and now because there's enough of a hesitation, it's very easy for them sometimes to want to come to me to address a concern about someone on the other side of the family. Right. And so us helping them is more like what they'll experience in life. Okay, this is someone I'm not related to. It's uncomfortable to address a concern and how do we navigate, find the commonalities, find navigate the differences?

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Can we talk about when you guys were dating and then it's getting more serious and you realize where it's heading, like, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna do this, we're gonna tie the knot. What were some of the conversations like leading up to that? Knowing that you've got your kids, her kids, and we're gonna be blended. So obviously you're, I would think, it seems like very intentional, but what were some of the conversations? What do they look like when you guys were talking about bringing you guys together?

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Great, great question. I'll say the first question is do we envision more kids? And that was an easy answer. No. Okay. This is more than you guys are done. Yeah. Um, I would say one of the differences that came into play was I had been single for six years. My wife had been single for six months. So we were coming from two different perspectives, and our kids were coming from two different perspectives. My kids were very young when I was divorced, five, three, and two. And her kids were 12, 10, and and so on, and girls as well, which entering those teenage years has a high impact on on them going through a divorce. So my kids are anxious for sibl new siblings, for a family, you know, more traditional family for all that. So they're they're gung-ho, they're ready to accept that, ready to jump all in. And her kids are still still dealing with the heartbreak of their family splitting up. And so I would say that was probably one of the biggest challenges in integrating our two families together. Now, as far as my wife and I, some of those discussions, it was you know, stepping into an unknown and realizing we need some more resources out there. And so that was something that we took on was whether it's books, whether it's we took a co-parenting class together. What did that look like? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

And that's cool that you got I love the the fact that you you did this because I've met a lot of people that I've you know, living here for 30 years, almost 30 years, I've met a lot of people in this situation that seemed to just go into it and didn't have any kind of thought going into it.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Yeah, and and I was for both of us, this was new territory for our our families in being divorced and now blending a family. We wish we had more resources. And I think there's growing resources out there. And just like you guys are doing for for fathers, more resources is better, more awareness. That class was great. It was actually organized by a friend of of ours who actually was able to host that at her house. And and I think the Utah State Um, one of their programs has a a grant that supports the education. So we had a teacher come in and once a week for two to three months um would walk us through a curriculum around blending families. And um there's a lot of things we felt, okay, we already know this. Some are about finances, some are about different things. Then there was a lot of great things we learned. And then there was a lot of things after we made the leap and were married that we're like, wait, they didn't cover this. There's a probably a lot more of those things. Yeah, sure. Like what? Can you name a couple or one thing that maybe we just didn't fully understand, but one of the tougher aspects of blending a famil uh a family is the natural tendency to be defensive around my kids. So I can't fully understand what it's like in a biological family, and I'm just gonna call it that, and there's maybe better terms for that. But just for this sake, if I had a a traditional family, I'm gonna talk to my spouse about our children, I would hope, and it's not always the case, but I hope that they feel that I'm doing it out of love and concern, genuine concern, because that's my child. But with my wife, or vice versa, if I have a concern that usually is genuinely out of love and concern about something going on with her child, the natural instinct is to become defensive. Oh, wait, you're attacking my child, my blood, or a part of me, even because she's my offspring. The natural reaction is to become defensive. And it's happens on both sides. But you're aware of it. Yeah. We are now. Yeah, yeah. We're now. So it took you a minute to get there. Um I and it's and maybe they covered that in the course. They probably did, and there's probably a lot of that went on, but it didn't sink in until we're in it, and we're like, holy cow. And then our natural instincts are not of full awareness of what's going on and why it took us a little bit, but it led to a number of early arguments, which this is a whole nother story, but that also led to a lot of my healing and becoming aware of what was going on for me as a man, as a father.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Didn't it make you kind of like, okay, what why am I reacting like this? Or, you know, why am I responding to this the way I'm responding to it? And then forces you to look within and go, it's more of a me thing. Like they're triggering something in me. Was it one of those?

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Maybe even before of that was maybe her asking me, Why are you doing this? Oh, okay. Yeah. Um, you know, wh why are you being so defensive? Or and and I was in a place where I thought the same of her, but maybe didn't say it, naturally more conflict avoidant. Yeah, yeah. Um, than she is. And so But those were all many of the challenges we encountered. And and yes, it did lead to me becoming asking those questions of myself. And and to be honest, a lot of it was probably too late. Another interesting aspect of our relationship, we've been married for five years in September, coming on five years. Congrats. Congratulations. A year into our marriage, our marriage pretty much ended. Um, just over a year in, she said she was done. And it was largely because of of some of these things and more into how I was able to handle or not handle and not just the defensiveness. There was a lot going on. It was, she was done. We separated um for a year and a half.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

You know, I can't even imagine. Tammy is my second wife, so you know, I've been married twice. We have a child together. And even prior to Axel, that was hard. I was on my, I mean, I I was in a relationship, committed relationship prior to that, but we weren't married. Basically, essentially, because we didn't live together, I was on my own for years. She was on her own for years. We come together. You have two people, two different people that are kind of set in their ways. I can't imagine putting, you know, you've got kids, she's got kids. I can't. It's a whole different trying to, I mean, it's just hard enough, even with people just getting married and talking about, you know, getting to know somebody and having differences.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

And also adding the layer of you haven't worked through a lot of the things internally. Yeah. And that's that's the kicker because now we joke about it. It's like you almost have originally like two eight-year-old versions of yourself trying to come together to make it work, but you're functioning as adults, but you're just both needing still those same things and those same wounds and all the stuff that's happened that you haven't worked through. So you're looking at the other one thinking, man, you've got a lot of things you got to work on. They're looking at you the same way. Meanwhile, you both have to do that work. But how do you do it when you're now trying to not only make a new marriage work, make a new blend it blend it fast, and create and run a business. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Those stress levels are like stacking on stacking on stacking, dude. Well, and and you bring up some good points. It's like, okay, let's imagine in our 20 somethings that we meet and and get married to someone. Well, we're already trying to mesh two different lifestyles from at least our upbringing at a minimum. Now, maybe life hasn't totally unfolded for us, and there's a lot of development to come, there's a lot of things to figure out. We haven't been parents together, so we're gonna figure that out together. It's still challenging, like very challenging. Just because you're next door neighbors doesn't mean you were raised the same way. So trying to put that together. Now imagine you have raised a family and you've figured out, or at least you think you've figured out how to do life with someone else. And then that separation, that divorce comes. Now you try and do it with a different person who's figured out a different way with someone else how to do life. And and those are a little bit more ingrained. And like human nature, we naturally think that at least if we put any thought into something, that we've come to a proper conclusion of how to do something. And so more or less we figured out the right way to do it, or at least our conclusion of the right way to do it. And there's many different right ways to do something, and that becomes hard. Um now for us, we we jumped all in with our marriage and our family, and so with that came the difficulty of finding a home that worked for us. So we're like, hey, our conclusion, we're gonna build a home that makes the most sense for our family. We couldn't find the right one, uh, we couldn't remodel, we couldn't find one to remodel or do whatever. So we were building a home. So in a first year of marriage, we're starting to build a home. That's crazy. This is a whole nother level.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

How can I uh how long were we were you two dating? I uh like how long were we dating? Like, how long were you two dating before like getting married and moving, you know?

SPEAKER_00 16:32

A year, which which in Utah is more than enough. Yeah, just kidding. Um I look back and it's like, okay, would more time have have made things better, easier? Would it have? Um, I don't know because I don't think we knew the Yeah, you just don't know. You don't know. Yeah. Now I will say I was more excited to step forward than she was. I think she was more aware that she was still healing from very deep trauma um that came from her last marriage. And so we were kind of aware of her trauma. We weren't aware of mine. I wasn't aware of mine.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

So were you talking about her trauma like collectively? But then it'd be like, she'd be like, Oh, tell me.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

We're gonna go back to you. Well, I just assumed that over six years of being single and and and proactive in learning that I was I was good. Um, I thought the healing I needed was from my last marriage, and I felt like I did a pretty good job. And granted, it will always show up in deep, intimate relationships. That's where trauma always will show up. Sure. Uh we can mask it and or or heal the initial layers of it. But the minute we share a life with someone, it's totally different. It's not like we actively were digging into all of her trauma because I wasn't trying to be her therapist. That wouldn't have been healthy either. Although awareness didn't mean that we knew exactly how to tackle that. And I don't think either of us were aware of of mine. And so a year into our marriage, we found ourselves in the middle of trying to build a custom home, meaning just very involved in that, right? Blending a family. And another layer that was complicated things is I had been in a successful career for 11 years. The company I worked for was acquired, and within 30 days, my pay was cut in half. Wow. So it was a way of forcing me out. And so we knew that something had to change. So we decided let's start a business, um, which was not the current one. It was I had a couple of rental homes and let's reinvest these into short-term rentals, Airbnbs. Sure. Um, so we became Airbnb managers and we thought this will be great. The first one we had was was really successful. So if they're all like that, then uh we'll retire in six months and just manage these. Well, the other ones were not nearly as successful and actually have struggled, and we only have a handful. And so we just took on a second job, is all we did, that doesn't pay well and just consumes a ton of our time, and we fight over how to run the business because we're both ambitious. And so we've got that going on. Meanwhile, I had left the company, I once that was kind of arranged. I left that and got a new job. It was a very technically demanding sales position. I was I've been in sales, and so this one was much more complex than the prior one. And I had been successful previously, but this one took a lot more than I imagined to understand and to be sex successful with. And ultimately, I started to doubt my ability as a provider. So all of this was a perfect storm.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Yeah. Um and then you're bringing all that stuff from that job home. So whether it's stress, doubt, all that stuff carries over into and you don't even get to check out, like you're going home to uh another full occupation.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

So this is like stress on stress. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

I would say if I had to boil it down though, of what I learned from it, if I had to give some sort of insight of what I've gained, hopefully others are already aware of some of this, but is is all about self-worth. Um, the opposite of that is shame. This was the perfect storm for me to realize what was going on in my life. This was my trauma that started somewhere in my childhood, but it was a lack of self-worth, a need for validation, getting that from any external source, right? And I believe that everyone deals with that. It shows up somehow, somehow. For me, I had had a successful, successful life in athletics, academics, career, and maybe even relationships. Because of all of that, they had given me enough validation throughout my life. Well, when you take away my career or my identity, identity as a as a male and a provider.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

You're not performing on teams anymore. So maybe the athletic aspect.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Yeah. And and I used to be an elite triathlete years prior. And so I I mean, I I competed internationally. And so that so I saw real success in different areas of my life. No validation from my career in that moment. My wife, who is struggling with her own traumas, is not able to give her full self in the way that I wanted.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Um you were looking for validation through her as well, right? Of course. I mean, we all do it. We all do it.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

There's a whole, you know, we can dive deep into that. And those are two major sources. My children, they're split with another household, things going on there as well with ex-spouses that adds layers to it as well. My wife's ex-spouse, even bigger layers of complexity there. And so all of those things compiled the stress of blending family, all that perfect storm, and I have zero validation. It was rock bottom. And then because of all of that, I'm not acting in a healthy way in my relationship. This shame cycle that I didn't know for a while longer doing my own work after this made me aware that how it showed up for me at least was being a perfectionist, sometimes a people pleaser. Essentially, the perfectionist component is I need to do everything in such a way that the world projects back to me that I'm enough. That validation, right? If I do something so well, I get applauded for it, maybe, or at least within myself, I'm like. This is awesome. So I used to be take pride in being a perfectionist. Now I'm a recovering perfectionist. I realize it is not something to be proud of. And all of these components and layers made it so I didn't want to displease someone. I didn't have enough confidence within myself to ask for my needs within the relationship. I adored my wife. I I truly adored her. I put her on a pedestal. That was another layer, too, that was pushing myself down because I adored her. Having been single for a long time, I saw what it was like for many women to come enter the single scene and have traumas from past husbands who didn't treat them well, things like that. So I wanted to treat her so well. And I lost myself in that. And that wasn't a healthy thing either. And so once again, it was all in an effort to get that return validation. But I couldn't communicate what I wanted. And so there's all these hidden, unspoken expectations that she wasn't able to meet. It was reinforcing this idea that she didn't love me.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Like a vicious cycle.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

So you were talking, sorry, you were talking about like shame stacking. We've talked about it. It's the opposite. If you start looking at like stacking wins, like it's all like what what's going on in here, right? So this shame stacking. Can you give a little insight into how you even started pulling yourself out of that?

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Well, it really was when my wife said it's over. That that was probably the impetus. And that being said, I'm going to share something I'm not too proud of, but it, but I think it's something to give insight of what it's like to be in one of these positions. I was so worried about what she thought of me. That validation, like trying, I'm trying to prove to myself she does love me. That being said, I'm telling I'm creating all these stories that she doesn't because I love her in a certain way, and I just expect her to love me back the way I'm expressing it, and I haven't communicated what I need. She's dealing with her own stuff, trying to be a mother, trying to step into roles of being a stepmother and giving it her all and not really getting the responses she wants either. She's dealing with her uh ex-husband trauma, all of that stuff. And I'm sitting here thinking about myself and why can't she respond the way I want? Which is normal.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

That is normal. We all yeah, everyone does that.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

So this is this is yeah, all of this stuff has nothing to do with a second marriage. It can be a no marriage, first marriage, and just life. So I'm looking for all this validation. And I began doing something that I'm not proud of. Every once in a while, I go and read her journal. And a lot of what I saw in there was most of it was her trying to get an outlet for her frustration, hatred for her ex-husband and what he had done to her. But I'm not seeing in there that she loves me. What's going on? Like, so it's it's a it was an unhealthy thing because of where I was. But the reason why I bring that up is because the day before she told me we were done, I'd read in her journal, in her working with a therapist, and said something along the lines of the fact that I am gaslighting her. And I was like, I'm a good guy. I don't gaslight anyone. I don't, I don't do that. And that was the first time you talked about introspection earlier. That was probably the first time where I had to look like, what am I doing that is gaslighting? Because that is what the ex-husband does, the manipulative person in our life does that causes all this trauma. I thought I was a good guy. And what I realized is those unspoken expectations, these actions where I'm wanting something back was a form of gaslighting. Another application is we actually do that sometimes with our children. If they come to us and they share an emotion that they have and we discredit it, it's a form of gaslighting. Gaslighting is trying to train someone else's brain to think differently about an emotion than it currently does. Invalidate their emotions.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Yeah. You're telling them how to feel. Come on.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

And if if you're on my team, like this is how you should be behaving, right? Like I do so much for you, James. Come on, like, why aren't you showing up for me the same way, right? We do the friendships to our kids, like all you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

So as simple as with with boys, we're like, oh, be tough. Don't cry about whatever. Any any type of messaging there that isn't more understanding and encouraging them to feel and understand what's going on for themselves. It's natural we do it, but I realized how unintentional I was doing that. And that was the first awareness that that I was to at least some degree at fault in what was going on in our relationship. Because there was still a lot of blame going on internally and even anger building up hatred potentially. And then it's like, I'm loving so hard and I don't get any of that back. But that was kind of the the tipping point was one, seeing that and realizing, whoa, something's off if her therapist says that whatever I'm doing to her is gaslighting. And then a day later, her coming to me and saying, I'm done. And it was not just a threat, it was for real. I decided, and I told her, I said, I'm I'm not gonna give up. I kept fighting for another month, month and a half, and she said, nope, we're still done. So I arranged other living arrangements, and that was a portion of our year and a half of separation. But when that first happened, I was distraught. When I had to face the fact that this person that I put on a pedestal that was complete in my life, all those phrases that now I've come to learn are aren't real and aren't healthy sometimes. Like she completes me. She's my better half. All of those phrases that are terms of endearment, but when you look at them in another way, it's actually very unhealthy because we need to be enough for ourselves. We need to be whole and complete. And that person could add additional value to our lives, but we we need to, for ourselves, be 100% complete.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Well, and there's probably an underlying selfish energy that's really happening there. If I put my partner on a pedestal and I'm doing everything from them, then if the relationship doesn't work out, it's on them, not me.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

I loved harder than they did, or whatever you want to tell yourself.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

And also if I love you enough, then you're gonna give me back that validation that I'm really seeking. Because I'm doing a lot of these efforts because ultimately I'm needing something from you.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

100%. Yeah, I was doing all that hoping for that validation response. Sure. A hundred percent. So how selfish was that? How genuine was that love that I was giving if I was expecting something in return? Um, so I was at zero. I'm honest. I I have never there's been thoughts throughout my life of life's tough, or I'm down on myself. What would it be like to take my life more out of curiosity and don't go too far? This was a moment, and I and I empathize with those who who feel this more often than I did or who have gone further than I did. But for the first time in my life, I I had a plan and I had a backup plan. And I probably even had a third plan. Like there were plans because with zero validation from all of these sources, life wasn't worth it. My kids, as much as I love them, they had so many other people in their life that could take care of them. Sometimes, like kids do, they don't always tell you that sometimes they tell you the opposite of that they love you. Yeah. At least enough that it was like there it was hard to find the reason to stay. So, how did you find the reason? I I will say at first it wasn't for myself. It was still out of this this unhealthy love for my wife. Adoration, that was the word I was looking for. This unhealthy adoration for my wife. And so at least I knew I needed to get help. And so I invested in several different coaches. A men's group, um, another personal coach. They were able to help me work through the initial stages of understanding what was going on, the stories I was telling, be able to dissect the emotions from the thoughts um and the actions that I was taking. That was those were the first steps. And it wasn't for a month, two months of of very rigorous work in these regards that I actually understood the concept of shame and how it's showing up. That was not a concept that I understood right away, um, that it was around self-worth. Um, but once I did, I realized how it was the foundation of everything I was dealing with. And I believe it's the foundation for just about everyone's um lack of health in some area mentally and emotionally.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Was it something when you heard shame, were you like, there's no truth to that? Were you kind of a little standoffish with it or were you open to hearing that?

SPEAKER_00 30:36

As I remember it, it was something that I discovered. I mean, not not to say that no one said it, but it was a realization I came to, not someone that said, Okay, you're dealing with shame. Now, had they mentioned those concepts, obviously they must have for me to make the correlation, but I correlated it and realized, connected the dots all the way back to my childhood. And I it was just this epiphany that I had. And I mean, I realized it in how I talked about my siblings. Anytime I would talk about my family, I would put each of my siblings on a pedestal. Well, my my older brother, he was the valdictorian. He got a full ride to college. Yeah. My my sister, she was the athletic prowess, she was the the prom queen. Her boyfriend was the prom king. She was the social butterfly. My younger sister, she's super knowledgeable. She excelled in academics and and spirituality and things like that. And then there's me. I'm the black sheep. I'm divorced.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

That type of mentality is what I told myself. And oftentimes it came out and I didn't wasn't aware of that. It showed up in my inability to ask for what I need, my confidence in certain situations. I don't think it was as dramatic until I got married. I think the layers that came from losing my job, from not getting the validation when I was expecting it, all of that, I'm grateful for that perfect storm. I don't know how else I would have identified it to the degree I did without all of those things happening together. I could have been limping along like I did my entire life, getting just enough validation to not notice it. Boy, the parallel.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

I was gonna just say I was gonna say your guys' stories. Come on. Very similar. I have an older brother and and he's five years older, and that's how I describe it, and he is. He's he's brilliant, but that's how I describe him. Like he's just in a different plane of intelligence, and then there's me.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Which is so funny because when I see, I mean, I know it obviously brother really well and stuff. This guy's level of success and what he's actually created and what he's done for his family collectively is on a whole different level than anybody else in your family, but yet you still have those thoughts, right?

SPEAKER_02 32:46

Stuff that's deeply ingrained from childhood, and you still and and it's weird that the fact that you because I I'm very aware of my shit from my childhood, but that's one thing that I've never tapped into until you just said that out loud. I've never tapped into that shame thing as far as that, because you're right. It's this narrative that we we tell ourselves, we tell people like here's my here's my brother, he's up here. Yeah, and then I didn't do very well. I, you know, academically, I didn't, you know, and then you're almost like, but I'm smart, I'm street smart. You know, you're kind of like always doing that, like groveling for validation.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

Right. Well, and and I believe that's where you look into attachment styles and things like that. Most of our development occurs in our younger years, our childhood. And I don't know how anyone escapes it without something. Yeah. Some whatever you want to call it, trauma, baggage, whatever. And we're just most people aren't aware. And I think some escape a little better, or maybe they naturally heal. I I can't explain that. And there's uh and then there's those that something in life is gonna tip them over and they're gonna have to figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

It's called your emago, and and that is the interaction that you have either with your parents, siblings, but that blueprint of who you are, your emago, is formed at by like eight, seven or eight that is cemented in place, and then that's your future.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Right. Like I said, uh and being a parent, even through this healing process, I had this new invigoration to become not do what my parents did to me. And and I don't blame them, by the way. There's a whole thing there, right? I don't, I believe they do did the best they could. Regardless, I was dealing with what I was dealing with, and I didn't want my kids to have the same traumas. And so I spent a long time trying to be that father, and and now I'm on another phase that realizes that's impossible because that will induce shame again of my imperfection and trying to break this cycle. I guess my hope at this point, and there might be phases after that, of just helping my kids become aware of how imperfect I am as a parent. And if the sooner they can recognize how I've impacted them, the sooner they can heal and move on. In all of our childhoods, we're not ever going to get the exact and perfect love that we want or need. It will be too smothering, it will be not enough, it will be we will never meet an adult's expectations. I think that was the biggest thing for me is is not meeting my father's expectations. Interesting. And I understand that one, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Yeah, understand that one. So I want to talk a little bit about what your offerings and what you're doing now. Um, before we jump into that though, is there just one or two takeaways now that you had understanding and this awareness around the shame of one or two things that you started implementing in your life to help get you out of that?

SPEAKER_00 35:36

I will say, and this kind of leads into what am I doing now? I would love to one day be able to have more conversation like this, bring more awareness to men in particular, although it affects women as well. There's just less resources for men to become aware of how that shame cycle, lack of self-worth shows up and how to repair it. I would love to one day. In the meantime, there's other things that we are doing from a business standpoint and helping people with health. And I think they're interrelated. But in preparing to one day coach and help other people, I've actually got the backbone of a curriculum I would love to offer. But one of those things is those what do I do to build my own self-worth? And it's daily actions. And I'm somewhat of a hypocrite sharing them because I struggle to keep up with them daily. But there are things that I know that if I do these things, I will be able to maintain my self-worth, my value. And it's it's not selfish. It is so important to love ourselves enough that that message is not just verbal. It is through our actions that I love myself enough to take care of myself. So I've I've created an acronym. It's daily grades, and those actions are gratitude. I have a gratitude journal. I write down three things that day. R is regulation. That could be intentional breath work, meditation, uh cold plunge, a number of different ways, and how important that is. A, affirmations, replacing the voice. We we let so many other voices in. We have to have our own voice. It needs to be a positive one. And we need to believe that. So it's not affirmations at face value, but very intentional, felt affirmations. D, diet. What are we putting into our bodies or not putting into our bodies? That could be nutritionally, that could be hormonally, that could be so many other things there. And then E exercise, movement every day is critical. It releases so many positive chemical endorphins and and hormones that that we need. Last one, S, grades, study, be learning. That could be spiritually, that could be intellectually in any capacity developing.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Dude, thank you for sharing that. Like honestly, before coming and picking you up on the way, I was starting to feel there's just been some um big financial like blows lately that I've been dealing with. And I was kind of in this mindset, like, oh, when I go and I meet Frankie, because we have such a good relationship, I was like, I can I can share some of this stuff. And and and I was realizing that the energy that I was going to bring was going to be very like Eeyore energy, like, uh, woe is me. Right. And so I started doing like it was like wind stacking instead. And genuine like people probably driving by were like, what the hell is this guy doing? Like I was clapping for my own like things in life. I'm like, you have this, and clapping. I was like, I was like, I have two healthy boys and like everything, just like running and clapping and clapping. So by the time then I got there, I'm like, I want my energy to be strong friendship. Like, yeah, we might delve on a couple things, but like honestly, I want it to be uplifting. I want to be the friend that I want to show up as, right? And so, like, that when you're talking about some of these things, it's like so crazy what we can do if we just start shifting daily little habits or shifting a moments and stacking some of those wins, stacking the gratitude, doing the exercise, just moving your body. And it's just like it can get you out of where the rest of the day could have gone. It could have gone somewhere completely different.

SPEAKER_02 39:05

Oh, 100%. I mean, and if we can just keep that in mind, you're in control of the thoughts, like of what direction your brain's going. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

You know, we we we live. I mean, another model that you can look at at things in that perspective is we have we experience the outside world. This is our situation. The way we experience it, maybe even the filter that we have lead to thoughts. And that's where the biggest thing, the shift changes is the thoughts that we have, the stories we tell. The way I experienced my relationship early on was not healthy because of my thoughts. And my thoughts led to my feelings, my emotions about that, which led to my actions or reactions, and then the the ultimate result, which at that point was divorce. By being able to shift my thoughts about something, the story that I was telling myself that she doesn't love me or whatever that is, and all rooted in lack of self-worth, right? If I have that, now my thoughts can be, like you said, uh, these wins. I can see two sides of this. I can make this the worst thing, or I can make it a win. Yes. And by turning that to a positive thing, now how does that influence my emotions, then net actions and the results? I love that. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 40:15

And and it goes back to we just on our last episode, and this is something that I'm always talking to our 10-year-old, almost 10-year-old Axel, about with as far as your brain. So what you say to it and how you talk to it, because it can be your best asset or it can be the death of you, literally.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

And we've got so much effort into the material and external world and trying to create what that looks like. Right. And you can only do that so long and ignore what's actually playing, the record that's playing inside. It's it's going to catch up eventually. And I think we we talk about that's like the real work and the hard work.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Somewhere in there, you have to get to a place I can tell myself genuinely, I am enough. I am lovable as I am. I'm 100%. And I have to believe that. And that takes that work of shifting our thoughts and it and it changes the voice. I mean, there's a number of those actions that I said, it those are ones that will help to rewire that narrative that we have about ourselves. So then we can look at perspectives as is this the world telling me that it's falling apart and therefore I'm worthless? Or is this just a challenge to grow from? And or simply this, there's a positive outlook on this, that this is a huge win, regardless of how imperfect it looks at face value.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

There's always always a silver lining there in everything. And no matter it's sometimes it's they're hard to find, but you got to look for them. So before we wrap this conversation up, can we go back to that year into the marriage and where you guys got back on track and how you were able to stay together?

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Love that. Thank you. Yeah, I would say about six months into that. I I was very intentional about trying to be involved. Um, even if it was in my stepkids' lives, that was one thing that was a challenge for me. I felt through this process, I was still committed to her. I was in denial of a lot of things, of maybe even how I had hurt her until I was realizing further along. But when you get divorced and you have children within that marriage, you get some sort of custody with them. When they're your stepkids, you don't get custody of them. So that was a challenge. But I was very intentional in trying to do things with them when she allowed. And I think that was probably something that fostered an ongoing relationship of sorts with her and the fact that we're still building a house. It wasn't finished. What do we do about this? Well, we can't sell it yet. We got to finish it. So we're still making decisions together. I think if I look back at it, that's probably the reason why that delayment, that prolongment of some sort of relationship that I was still having to interact with her almost daily is probably you could say saved our marriage. I mean, the work saved our marriage, but gave me the time to do the healing and the transformation that gave me a chance down the road. The early stages were I want to heal for her. I want to win her back. Come six months, I had to finally accept her decision. I had to heal 100% for myself and only for me, not for her. And I did get to that point. I think that's when she actually started to see the difference. There must have been a subtle change there. There was a point at which, as we were finishing the house, I said, Hey, we need to make a decision here. If we're gonna do this, we need to enter marriage. And that was the first time she said, Well, hang on a second. And so at least it led to some more open conversations about how I had hurt her through the process. And it still was nine months later, six to nine months later, before we actually rejoined our family because there was still more work to do. There was still trust to build. And then I would say the last stage was actually me trying to figure out if this is the relationship that still I was a new person. Is this still the relationship I wanted? And so I believe that came from a healthy place of comparatively to a year prior where I was desperate for her attention, right? It was a totally different place where I was evaluating altogether is this the right person. And that doesn't mean we don't have challenges today. We do, we're more aware, but look what you've been through.

SPEAKER_01 44:08

Yeah, look what you worked through, right? When you put that effort in, yeah, the sustainability there, man.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

You could do anything now. I mean, really, you guys were at the very I mean, you almost got divorced. The fact that you guys powered through it and did the work. It sounds like you did the work on both sides.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:24

What an inspiring story.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Amazing, Jameson. Thank you so much being on the show, brother.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

Uh we'll put all your information. Actually, real quick, what Forever Young. Tell us what you do over at Forever Forever Young.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

Forever Young is our current business. Um, it was it was rooted in my desire to help people, men, and it led to us finding a business model that at least to some degree can help. Um, at Forever Young, we help people feel their best and look their best. My wife's a master aesthetician. I have deep roots in in wellness, and so this is where it worked really well for us. Um, we do in-depth evaluations of of people's blood to determine where there might be um areas of that we can optimize, primarily in hormones. This is at its root, helps people get the capacity within themselves physiologically to take care of themselves, to go and have more motivation, to exercise, to sleep better, all of these things that can support the mental and emotional health that I'm a huge fan of as well. And so we we love that. We're in Cottonwood Heights in Fort Union, right next to the Trader Joe's. We love helping people. That's that's where where the purpose comes from and the fulfillment.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

It's a beautiful facility. Like it, yeah, it went in there and chatted. Check it out. Yeah, I've been in a few, like uh wellness and health spas. This one just had a nice vibe, felt really good in there. So I'm excited to learn more about some of your services.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

And we'll put all the information within the podcast description. So make sure you check out and follow dadhood on Instagram, on TikTok, and check out our website, dadhood.co. Yeah. And powered by Kiln. We'll talk to you guys.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

Thank you.