Preparing Kids for the Real World | Why Great Parents Don't Rescue Their Children

As parents, it's natural to want to make life easier for our children. But where is the line between supporting them and preventing them from developing resilience?

In this episode of the DADHOOD Podcast, Thomas and Frankie have an honest conversation about raising children who are prepared for life—not protected from it.

They discuss helping kids navigate major transitions like middle school, allowing them to experience difficult teachers and uncomfortable situations, and why constantly stepping in to solve problems may actually do more harm than good.

The conversation expands into the importance of communication skills, confidence, personal responsibility, work ethic, technology, social awareness, and teaching children how to become capable adults.

They also reflect on their own childhood experiences, parenting philosophies, emotional triggers, and how understanding ourselves allows us to become better fathers.

Whether you're raising young children or teenagers, this episode offers practical insights and timeless principles that every parent can apply.

In this episode:

• Preparing kids for middle school and life transitions

• Why resilience matters more than comfort

• The downside of helicopter parenting

• Helping children navigate difficult teachers and authority figures

• Building confidence through responsibility

• Teaching communication and social skills

• Why face-to-face conversations still matter

• Door-to-door sales, missions, and developing confidence

• Understanding emotional triggers as parents

• Raising kids who can thrive without being rescued

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Yo, welcome to the Dadhood Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Yeah, what's up, buddy? Powered by Kiln. Thank you, Kiln. Again. Beautiful spot. Keep thinking one of these times I'm gonna come in here and be like, you know what? Maybe I missed the living room. And I don't. I just keep coming in. It just feels so good in here.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

It's such a cool, like we've talked about it before, but if you're not familiar with kiln, there's 25 locations, I think, in the western states. And I think it's a Utah company. Yes. So there's a lot of them here in Utah. It's that idea of just collaboration and you whatever you need, they have. So if you're looking for just a a little area, or if you're just looking for that type of like-minded people environment, meeting rooms, conference rooms, if you need like some office space, a podcast studio, they've got every anything for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

I think what's really nice, and if if you're like me, it's it's a spot where you can do the open work areas, but you just feel like at least someone else is there. Yeah. You know, when you're at home and you're just kind of isolated out. It's even if you're not talking to somebody. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's the energy, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Inexplicable connection of like you're just around people.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Absolutely. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Yeah, even if you're an introvert, we talked about that. Like, man, you need you need, I mean, you know, if you're an introvert, you need to be around people. Maybe it's not as much. But this is I think it's perfect for introvert, extrovert. If you're in between, like I am. I think it's perfect though, if you're more introverted, which you're saying, you still if you want to just kind of stay, stay to yourself, you can, but at least you feel like you're around people.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Yeah, it's not like people are just gonna walk up to you and be like, what are you doing? It's not that kind of vibe, but it's also you go and you grab a drink or whatever, and people are around. If you want, you can spark up a conversation. You never know.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

So pretty cool. So we appreciate kiln. So how are you doing, man? Doing well, how about yourself? Doing good. So my voice is barely hanging on, but yeah, you know, sounds awesome. All the other than that, I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

So we brought uh your your oldest to I should say to work, but kind of to work. It is to work, yeah. Because your wife Katie is doing, so what is she doing?

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Like a workshop? She's doing a workshop with Ember Women, yeah. So they're it's really cool. She has this concept where they kind of guide through different questions, and based off of that, you paint different things, and at the end, it kind of like pulls it all back into like personality traits and like maybe some things that subconsciously you're holding on to. So it's like mixing like inner work and art together. It's just really cool, yeah. And it's interaction. Yeah, exactly. You're kind of you're you know, there's other things that come from that. Yeah, and that's another cool thing. Like there's workshops happening, there's people creating things, there's other people that are just sitting at the computer grinding it out. It's all happening in this ecosystem of kiln, which is really neat. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

We were talking, so your oldest is is he gonna be 12? Dude, he's gonna be 12 in September. September. Wow, that's right around the corner, dude. I know Axel. He's gonna be 10.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Really right around the corner. August 30th.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

So my gosh, dude.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

How is he doing? Because I know he was, and it's funny because we had a conversation just the other day, Axel and I, about his age, and I was asking him how he felt about it. But how is Liam doing? Because I know when he was approaching double digits, yeah, it was weighing on him.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Yeah, that was hard.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Big time.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Yeah. Um, he's doing good now. But I mean, now's another big life change, right? He's going to middle school. Right. And I keep trying to ask him without prying. Yeah. Like I want to, it's like, hey, buddy, how you doing? Like anything coming up? Are you nervous about anything? Like, I want them to know it's okay to be nervous. You know, it's okay to it's normal. Yeah, dude. I mean, we all were, right? Like And are. And we are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

I said the same thing to Axel. I'm like, dude, it's okay. Like, there's nothing wrong with being anxious. Yeah. It's normal. I still get anxious and nervous about things.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Right. But I think being able to openly express it is another one. So just trying to create that. But he's like, no, Dad, I think everything's going to be good. And I'm like, all right. Have you heard anything about like what your lunch schedule is going to be like? And maybe I should stop because I'm like projecting my own I'm projecting my own things that I would be nervous about. Because you want to know like what's the schedule look like? And he said something like, I think we only have 15 minutes for lunch. I'm like, I th I think it's a little longer than that, bud. Like 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Do you I can't I can't remember?

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Dude, 15 minutes? You imagine trying to eat in 15 minutes with the social game going on? Get out of here. I mean take one bite and throw like what is it normally? Is it like 30 minutes or 45 minutes or something? 15 minutes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

I hope it is, dude. For them. These are questions that I think we as parents should be asking. Because I mean, I think that a bit, but yeah, just to know. Like because if it is 15 minutes, I mean, and they have been, let's just say for shits and giggles in this conversation, what if they've been having 15-minute lunches this whole time since they've been in school? I mean, that's not cool. You're right. To speak to your point, it's not cool.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

It's not cool.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

You don't have enough time to wolf food down in 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Bro, just getting through the lunch line, you're probably not going to do in 15 minutes. Yeah, eight minutes. Come on. Eight minutes. Yeah. By the time you actually sit down and kids are kids are just doing their thing. It's like two minutes to eat. You're looking at your food like, well, looked good. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Just put it back in the bag. Yeah. But he's not really stressing that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

No, it's not stressing about that. I think the whole thing is though, now we're going from they had two classes because he does the dual immersion program, right? So he would have his French class and then the English class. So he's used to like kind of at least switching a class during the day where a lot of kids are just one class. They're in their one class, right? Or they go to art or something, but it's always back to that one class. Now we're talking about like six or seven different classes throughout the day. I mean, it's it's crazy, dude, because I was in elementary still in sixth grade. They're gonna be in middle school in sixth grade. I'm just like, that's a big jump, man.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

It is, you know. I was in, and we were just talking about this, and I think I've told you this before, but I was in elementary school up until seventh grade.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

And then I went from seventh to eighth, and eighth was high school for me.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

And it was kind of a weird situation because they just tore down like the year before the junior high. So it was the one junior high that all the other elementary schools would have fed into. So because they tore it down, we had to stay in school literally until eighth grade. And that was high school, the start of high school for me. Holy crap. So that was yeah, that was terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Because I had an older brother that graduated, you know, in 84, and in 85 I went to eighth grade, but he was like, you know, what older brothers do? They they feed all the bullshit to you, and they get swirlied in the bathroom.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Shoved in lockers, speed up all the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

So I went in like just fearful.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Yeah, see, I don't think kids like really like talk about that stuff now. Maybe they do. Yeah. But I think it's more like I think they're more relaxed with that. They still, don't get me wrong, they're still gonna have the bullies and they're gonna have the you know, situations, but I think they're a little more chill when it comes to the fears. I think their fear is am I going to fit in? Yeah, also am I gonna know everything that I need to know? Like the amount of information they throw at these kids now, shit, dude. And on top of that, like all the social game and everything, it's a lot, bro.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

It seems like it's pretty overwhelming. Especially, I didn't even think of that, like the the changing of the classes. Because I remember it's the same thing for me up until seventh grade. Obviously, it's elementary school. It's one you're in one room all day, and then eighth grade comes, and that was one of my big fears. Not only all the other bullshit that my brother was feeding me, but it was a big high school, you know, when you had your classes, and I don't remember if they designed it to try to keep you like on this end of the school, like if you had first and second hour, right? And try to keep it somewhat close. But I I do remember in eighth grade having like a second and third or third and fourth hour where I had I was on one end of the school and then I had whatever it was, five minutes. I don't remember what it was in between the bell, but I had to get to the other end of the school. Yeah. You know, where I'd be like, You felt rushed.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Yeah. But then there's and that's what sucks. Like if you're an anxious kid anyway. Which I was like, that's that's a whole different level of this. I had because it was like what, five minutes, and then they'd start playing the music or whatever. We didn't have any music closer. No, we didn't have anything like that. Did they play music for you? Like the Oscar music? Like your time is up, get off the mic. Yeah, like like you better get your ass in class because it's coming to an end. Yeah, and I remember that would have been nice, I think, to have a little music, like, okay, at least I know I've got 30 seconds. Yeah, see, and I was like full in the social game at that point. Like, so my my thing was like bell rings, beeline it, and see how many people I can chat with before the next class. So it'd be like just pushing it, right? The bell's ringing, and I'm like running into the classroom, sliding in. That's great.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

No, we didn't have anything like that. That's fine. But that's the difference. I mean, I'm a little older than you in a different time in school. I was in Lincoln Park outside of Detroit. We didn't have shit. Yeah. I mean, we truly didn't. It was just like bare bones. For sure. Teachers didn't want to be there. You could tell the ones that should have retired like 20 years prior, but they were there for the tenure. You know, they were like, they're not going anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Yeah, no. They're gonna ride that thing out. Yeah. They hated kids. Well, and remember, you'd always have like the teachers too that all the kids would warn, like, oh, you don't have misses. Oh, we have tons of those. Oh crap. And you would get that class. Yeah. And you know, and there's nothing you could do. If I would have gone to my parents, which is weird, that's another thing I've noticed now. Like, parents are fighting for their kids to like get out of these classes. Right. And like going to the administrative office and being like, My kid doesn't deserve to, you know, shouldn't be in. I'm like, yo, you're doing such an injustice to your child. A disservice, man. Yeah, a disservice. You have to let your kid is gonna have shitty bosses, is gonna have bad friendships, gonna have these things like you can't fight for your kids with everything, dude. Like, let nobody in.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Funny, I think about what you're saying, and every once in a while I'd have conversations with my parents, but for the most part, they didn't, they really didn't even ask about again, because we've talked about this. I there was a lot of things just not on the radar, yeah, because they were tired all the time. But the few conversations that I had with my dad in particular that I could think of this, he said exactly what you said. He's like, You gotta because I had those, I think those conversations when I was in elementary school. Yeah. I'd have a teacher all day that did not like kids. Miss Miss Baylog, sixth grade, I remember, or fifth grade. She you could just tell. She wasn't mean, but there wasn't any nice bone in her. I mean, she just was very cold and just very cut and dry, didn't talk to the kids. We just sat literally sat there for hours. She'd tell us like to read, give us an assignment, and then that was it. There was no kind of interaction. So I could tell she didn't like us.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Like if she would have had a smartphone at that point, she would have been locked in into it.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Hers was the newspaper. They'd literally read the newspaper.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Uh but I remember having a conversation about her, like I said, with my dad, and that was one of probably a few of teachers that I had in my my school history. She uh, and he would just say the same thing. Like, it's that is a lesson in life. Yeah. You're gonna have bosses, people, employees, coworkers that you work with, just people that either don't like you, uh, you don't get along with, but that will teach you how to navigate through life and how to deal with those situations.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Dude, we had one for fifth grade with Liam this year. So he genuinely was the only one out of like his friend group that wasn't in the class. Like all of his friends were in the other B group, and he wasn't. And at first he's like, Dad, can you can you do something? Can you like ask him if I can switch classes? Right. But we didn't do that, dude. Yeah. Because that is again. We're not gonna be able to do that sort of thing in life. I mean, and there are parents that liter they will go in there, Frankie, and they freak out. Right. And then they'll get so mad, they're not accommodating my kid. Well, guess who else isn't going to? Life. Right. Like, life doesn't care about your child the way you do. Well, you know.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Those are the same people that are like, my kid needs his phone. So when I need to text him, he picks up and he's, you know, he's texting me back. It's like, no, your kid doesn't need your a phone or his watch in class. Right. Those are the same parents that or the grade, like, why didn't he get an A?

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

That was definitely a material. Why did he get an A minus or a B?

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Well, that's the craziest thing. What the hell are you doing calling your child in the middle of class? Like, what what is not going on in your life? And I'm this might come out super judgmental, but I'm like, if you are just sitting around and like waiting and calling your child or something. Or texting, yeah. Like your child is not like your homie or your friend. Like it's weird, man. Child, dude. Like, let them be in their space. And what message are you sending your kid? Like, you need to you need to be basically available to mom and dad 24-7 as like an eight-year-old or a 10-year-old. Like, what the hell do you think they're gonna expect when that transition happens to where you actually might need a little bit more of your kids' attention because you're aging or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

You know, you still know. Well, and it kills me as it like I feel for the people, the teachers and faculty and that sort of thing, in that sense, what th those parents. Yeah. I mean, you're like literally caught in the middle, especially when your bosses are like, Well, you gotta hear them out, or you know, and then you know, you hope in situations like depending on the district, that they get the teachers' backs and you you can give a little pushback.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

I remember one time at the so towards the end, and I had made this promise, so again, you gotta stick with it. I totally um, yeah, the last week of school, I'll bring you and a couple of your friends, I'll go pick up Chick-fil-A. Because that's like a cool thing for them, right? So I pick it up and I realize, oh crap, I have like four sodas. Not thinking about it. I'm like, I'm gonna go drop, and I got a big bag. I'm like Uber at their school. So wait a minute, you dropped in like during class? Like during the school day. Oh, like yeah, it's you drop it off at front or not. Yeah, at the front. I didn't go to the class. I'm not gonna be that guy. Okay. I could have been, I didn't I'm not gonna be that guy for a second. Like, I need to drop this off from the case. Yeah, I'm like, I'm going in. You know, so I'm like carrying this big bag and I drop it off, and the lady's like, I don't know if we can do the soda thing. Like they were like really nice about it. They're like, hey, because I volunteer there a lot and stuff, and and so they're like, Oh, this is nice. And then the principal comes in and I was like, I know the kids are gonna enjoy it, but you are the ones that are you dole it out high. Like, like, if the sodas aren't good, I'll throw them in the garbage, dude. Like, I'm not gonna throw them in the garbage, yeah. Like, but you know what I mean, right? It's like you ultimately are the ones dealing with the masses here, not me. So it's like just understanding that sometimes. Right. And I get it. Every parent, and this is what I used to get so irate during the drop-off, because every parent thinks that their child is the most important kid at the school, and I totally get that in their world, that child is, but when you're in a world of other kids and parents, like you you have to be realistic. And people don't, you know.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Well, and that mentality, the way because and that is a fine line, because I we feel the same thing about Axel, like we love him, and obviously we want to give him every opportunity and all the love and support. But I think there's a fine line with that, and here's a a good example of what I'm talking about, where if you make it like the world revolves around your kid, that's how they go out into the world. That's their lens. Literally, yeah. Here's a great way to gauge what I'm talking about. When you are pulling up at a crosswalk, you're in your car, let's say it's dirt when kids get out of school, watch these kids when they cross the street, because I'll like Axel will be in the car and I'll see. You see how these kids are just taking their time? They see 20 cars deep on either side, and they're just on their phones, they don't give a shit. That is the world revolves around me. Pick it up a little bit. Yeah. Show some some kindness and just and a little bit of urgency to get across the street. Sure. You see people waiting for you. And I'm not just talking about like in a school zone, I'm just talking in general. So you'll see kids and they'll step out. They don't even make eye contact, and that's another conversation we've had. But they're just like on their phone and they're literally like and and it's not just kids. Well, it's kids that grow up to young adults, full-on adults. It's the same thing. It's the kids that were raised that way. And when I'm like, I know somebody's waiting for me, I'll kind of pick it up and I'll either almost run or just be quick because I know they're waiting on me.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Like someone holding the door open for you and you're like a little distance away. Yeah. It's like hurry it up a little bit. They're doing a kind act for you. Exactly. Right?

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Instead, they're just kind of like, eh. Yeah. And then not saying anything, or even like uh just like a hand gesture if you're in a parking lot, you know, just a nod or whatever, an acknowledgement. Just let me know that you see me, and it's kind of like a hey, no problem, of course, you know, that kind of thing. A little exchange, human interaction, visual interaction. But it's that though. I mean, really, it's like the going back to what you're saying, is I think these parents are doing an injustice with their kids where everything revolves around them, and then that's how they go out in the into the world. And then when something doesn't go as planned, it's the end of the world. Yeah. And they're not able to navigate their way through it. It's like for something that is not that big of a deal that they can't handle.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Dude, and I think the kicker is then they actually get in a real situation where they have to address it, right? And now they're looking around for who's gonna get me out of this. Right. Like mom and dad better better call my boss or better call my boss. Oh, dude. Not only that call my boss, the crazy thing is when these parents are so involved with the friendships, like the parents get involved. The parents are so involved with either the friendship or the relationship, which is super weird in the high school level, that the parent is contacting the partner or contacting the friend and saying, I don't think the way that you showed up was good. I've I've unless it's abuse.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Like if it's teenagers as a parent, I'd be like, you know, trying to nip that in the bud. Yeah. No, I've seen that. That's a problem that they continue throughout their whole life if nobody chimes in, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

And that's when you do, you should get involved. You need to step up and like handle it. Let them learn on their own if it's something that's not what you're saying. Just like getting so intertwined that it's almost like, who's in this relationship? Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

You know? So going back to the when I did the radio show years ago, we would throw it out as a topic every once in a while. And I remember when it started, like when I would see this, and it was probably, I'm gonna give you like uh about 2004-ish, is when I started to see this. My ex had um some spas. Okay. She owned some businesses, and this is where I would see it and then start hear started hearing these stories. There would be these girls that would work there and some young guys, but mostly girls. It was kind of that kind of an industry. And they'd be teenagers, maybe 18, 19, early 20s.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

And it would be that a parent calling, saying, so-and-so's not coming into work today because she's sick. And I remember my ex at the time, you know, she was the the boss, and she would be like, Well, why isn't so-and-so calling? She's like, Well, she's just not feeling well. But that's when I started to see the start of that. And then as I would talk about it on the show, you would hear one horrific story after the the next of parents not only calling, maybe going into a place of business where their child works to talk to the manager or the boss at an interaction that they didn't agree with. Or I mean, dude, it's insane. I don't know if that stuff is still going on, but I have heard stories as of late along those same lines, but I don't know if it's as rampant as it used to be. But it was bad at one point. And dude, what messages are you sending? You're just cleaning up your kids' mess. Yeah, that's the message you're sending. Yeah, I don't yet I don't get yeah, how a parent wouldn't see what what are you doing.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Yeah, and to your point, like the only way, like I I try to put myself in those positions. The only way I would get involved if there's like abuse happening, right? Like verbal or physical abuse, if there's you know, discrimination, something like that that's like actual warrants you to like step in and be like, hey, this isn't isn't cool.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Even if it's I think a verbal abuse, I think then you give them the tools to be like, here's how you handle it.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

And if it doesn't, then you need to quit. Put in your notice and quit or quit. Yeah, exactly. You know, and that's m one that e maybe even justifies like I'm done. Yeah. And I don't owe you anything. Because legally I don't owe you anything. That's just a common courtesy thing to give you the two weeks.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

And some people say that's even a little that's even a little gracious, right? And that's really cool. I like that because that approach almost says, hey, I've got your back. I got your back. If this isn't gonna work out, it's okay. But like stand up for yourself and tell them that it's not okay that they're treating you this way.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

And if they let you go, then then that's okay. It's time to move on.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Exactly. Right. And that's how they how you learn. But I think if you're yeah, the the parents though that are making phone calls because the kid is sick, or yeah, you know, they you have a problem with their job and you're calling, or this is another one like that. I've heard like where the parent is calling to get the job for their their child.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Wait, wait, wait, to get the job for them.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

So they're calling and saying, Oh my gosh, I'm calling on behalf of my son or my daughter, who's like 16 or 17. Uh, how does he get uh an application? Or how do we go about finding out more? Yeah, it's that. And it's like, what are you doing? I mean, those are the perfect moments we go back to when we talk about when we were teenagers and talking about just being hungry and going after it.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Yeah, you had to be the one that went in there and get the extra.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

And I uh so my first job outside of my paper routes, because I got a paper out, my first paper route, my weekly paper out at eleven, and then my first real paper out at 14. That was a seven day a week, okay, you know, 365, the Detroit News. And then I got my real first job at 15 and a half, and I lied because you had to be 16.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

And said that I was, and then had my parents dropping me off until I got my license.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Because you didn't have to show a license or anything. I don't remember how I.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

I lied, but I remember because I still am in touch with a friend who was my boss at the time. So this is 1987, 86. I he found out late years later that I lied.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Well, it wasn't a driving position, right? Exactly. And it really wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

As long as you're here.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

You know, but you had to be 16 to work that's funny, dude. But I don't get it, man. I don't get the parents that and then these kids grow up and they're in the real world, and these people just can't cope with things. They're not functioning.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Yeah. Well, and then you're like, if you've gone the opposite direction and actually empowered your kid to make the calls themselves, to stand up for themselves, to be ambitious in a sense, they're like shining right now. Yeah. They're standing out so much. Green of the crop, man. Yeah, and they're crushing it. They're getting the jobs they want to get, they're getting the opportunities they want.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Because that human interaction, that that just face-to-face or that confidence face to face, it's probably a lost art to some extent. Oh, totally. You know?

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Yeah. The more technology we get, the farther away from it. Which is so funny because just the other day I was having a conversation about the work environment. Because it was very different when you and I were getting into it than it is now. I came out of my undergrad with a communications degree. And I remember time and time again, Frankie, these people are like, that's a soft degree. That's a soft skill. Like we don't really like need that. And I'm like, you mean like interacting with people? Yeah. Being able to actually convey a message to you. You don't need that. Isn't that funny? So it was all about engineering, you know, analytical degrees. Now, now that degree actually has more weight. But I'm at a point now where I'm like, screw it. I don't want that position. But now with technology ramping up, yeah, having interpersonal skills and communication, it's a lost art. It's a lost art, man. And it's so good that and I've seen you like working with Axel and talking to him about these things like look people in the eyes, be polite, do these things you need to do.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Same thing with the boys, like just trying to get them to understand the power of that without just speaking it at them and being like, you need to do this, but like showing them early on when we go to restaurants, it's it's been Axel, like I can't even he's gonna be 10, so I can't even I don't even remember when we started doing this, but it's like he knew what he wanted to eat. Yeah. And every once in a great while, Tammy might just order for him. But nine times out of ten, he's ordering for himself. Yeah. And that's by design. It's like tell them what you want. Tell him what you want. And be polite and thank you and you know, yeah, appreciate it and that sort of thing. Yeah. But that's been for a long time, and I think that's important. And we've talked about this where you know, we'll be at a mammoth game, or if I'm sitting in the car and he wants to run in, I'm like, here's my credit card. And the only thing I say to him is make sure if it's a tipping situation, you tip 10%. So if it's at the mammoth game and he's getting like a churro, sure and he knows where our seat is and that sort of thing. Uh, but just you know, make sure you tip 10% and don't lose my credit card. That's the only thing I say to him. And be polite, and you know what to do. And and we've seen him enough to know that he's he's saying thank you, projecting, he's looking him in the eye, and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

That stuff's so good, dude.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

It's and but like you said, it's some people are like, what? Well, that's a gimme. It's like, well, it yeah, it used to be a gimme. Like back years when we were younger, for sure. That was what you were taught. But I don't know if if people are teaching their kids that now.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Yeah, like we're constantly be like, oh, we forgot something at Smith's. I'll just pull up front and give them the credit card. I'm like, okay, buddy, go in and grab it. Because they have to search the store, they have to go up and pay, and you know, it's just so good for them.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

I love it, and it's good for us too. We're like, okay. It is. This is something that I I I talk about from time to time too. So, you know, being here almost 30 years, I'm not LDS. My wife used to be, she was raised, and then I think until like around 10, they really didn't practice anymore. Yeah. And and whatever your thoughts are with the religion, it's not about that what I'm gonna say here. Uh, I just think it's really cool. And again, whether you're for or against it, but when literally for two years knocking on doors and schlepping God, right? They're trying to sell God. Yeah. So that skill is like invaluable, man. Like when they come back, and you can tell, like in the business world, like a person that's been on a mission.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Because they know how to talk to somebody, they have those skills that that were ingrained in them from a young age. Yeah. So I look at it as like, man, and then they grow up and they're not afraid to talk to people. They're not afraid to talk to a room. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

You know, from a business standpoint, like a business training facility, they're crushing it. Incredible, yeah. Because, like, to your point, it's like that skill of being able to just go out of your comfort zone. If you go door-to-door sales, like not that's like can be terrifying. All the rejection, all the no's, which is more power, like gives you stronger, you know, thicker skin. And also a lot of these kids like get foreign language skills too, and they're just like recruiting from a business level. Utah's like the mecca. Yeah, like if you can come here and like there's so many well-versed like individuals at a young age, at a young age, yeah, that like their belief system again, if you're on board, not on board, whatever, it's like pretty much not like tolerating partying and stuff, like being they're very disciplined, yeah, like standing up, like being honorable for the most part, and like doing these things. So it's like you have a lot a really strong work ethic going in right out the gate, you know. It's pretty wild. Yeah, and they get they get married super young, right? And having everything. So it's just like interesting to watch them from an outside perspective. When you go to when I like travel around, go to other states. I'm like, man, these kids are still like 35, 40, and they're like singling and mingling. It's like Utah 35, 40. They've had like kids, grandkids, they've yeah, might be running a couple corporations. It's like, holy crap.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Well, and then the flip side to that is I mean, I've been here long enough to see that that's not always a good thing either. Like getting married at like 20.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Yeah, going both both ways, depending on how you look at it. But from a skill set standpoint, it is pretty impressive to watch. It's valuable, man, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 28:05

And I hate door-to-door salesmen. Oh, yeah. I can't stand it.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

But I appreciate somebody that is really good at it.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

And that's that's a hard one. That's a hard one. And you can see them sometimes walking around the neighborhood, just like it's funny because when they come up to the door, there has been a couple times where I'm just I'm just not in the mood. Right. Like sometimes I'll be like, hey, but I appreciate it. I can see you out here hustling, like, good job. There's been a couple of times where I'm just like pretty like stern. Right. And I'm just like, no. And I'll come in and my and my my kids will even be like, Dad, you were kind of rude about that. And I'm like, eh, I just not really in the mood to talk about window cleaning right now.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

I got other things on my plate. Well, you know what's funny is Axel, he'll he'll be outside like, you know, shooting pucks or whatever, street hockey. And and yeah, and I've had talks with him since. But he would come in and go, There's a guy out here that wants to talk to you. And I'll do, I'll be like, dude, come on. What is he selling? He goes, Well, no, he just he said he just wants to talk to you. And I'm like, ah, and I'll go out and the guy's like with a pesticide company or windows or roofs or whatever, and I'll talk to him and you know, and and it and I'll give him the time of day, but sometimes I don't. I'm like, sometimes I'm like you, right? I just don't, I don't have time. I don't feel like I have it in me, which I so I do shut him down. And yeah, but I still ultimately, even though I hate the door-to-door thing, I don't like it. There is a sense of, I get it. You're out there, man. You're literally hustling.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

How often does like Axel just stand there and watch your conversation though?

SPEAKER_00 29:29

All the time. Yeah. And and nine times out of ten, I'm very I'm nice to them. Sure. And I'll ask questions or I'll say not really like there's a guy that's funny, he was with this pesticide company. And we use another company, and we don't even use them that often. Because we're at this, unless we have a big problem, like a bug problem in the house, I don't know. We just remove them. I mean, we we see him, we get them out, but this guy was talking about going around the property and he's like, and we'll go all the way out to like by the street. You won't have spiders, you won't have ants. And I just said to him, I'm like, Well, we're actually fine with them out here. In my head, I was like, This is a little extreme. You're like killing all the spiders and the ants all the way by the curb. I mean, as long as they're not coming in the house, this whole ecosystem out here, man. I didn't have that conversation with him. But in my head, I was like, man, that's but he knew what he was talking about, and he was passionate about what he was talking about. And he came in and was like, Well, what's it gonna take? And I'm like, It's not gonna take anything. We're not looking to switch, and I appreciate it. So he knew at like after the second or third time, he's like, Well, thanks for your time. I'm like, No problem, man.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Dude, that line always did what's it gonna take? Ah. I hate that that one's like super like sleazy sales-y, yeah, right? I don't like it. So when we were buying our the recent car when we when we were having that experience, the the dealership was amazing, everything was great. The main guy, so we had gone over to a competitor and got a evaluation of the vehicle we were doing the trade in with. And it was higher than the one that these guys were going to give us. Okay. And so we said, Well, if we can show you what they were gonna give us, will you match it? All of a sudden, you know, we're sitting there chatting with the sales guy we were working with, which was really cool. His boss then came over and did one of these, like, if we validate it, do we have a deal right now? kind of thing. And I was like, bro, don't do that. Like, don't do that. Come on, yeah, I don't like manosphere. Get the hell out. You know, it almost was enough to turn me off to be like, oh, well, maybe we should just go somewhere else. Kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

That pushy thing, yeah. When it turns to that, I'm out. I think that's childhood shit for me. Right. Where it's like, don't push me.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

You know, now I'm finally able to like stand up for myself, but don't push me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

I'm in here to get a car, dude.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

But like you don't have to convince me to get a car. I've noticed like with relationships and even stuff that where I feel, and I've had conversations with Tammy on this, and I know now where a lot of that, like it's not, she's not meaning to to to come across as manipulating. But sometimes, and we've had conversations about this, so it's not like I'm talking behind her back, but you know, like even like her upbringing where she kind of maybe got a trait like that where it was manipulative.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

And I had stuff from my childhood where I'm like, I don't want to be manipulated. I can tell when I'm being manipulated, and I don't like it. Sure. And obviously with other relationships, and I'm like, that's something though, if I feel where there's any type of pushiness or manipulation, I get really triggery, and I know it's coming from something, but sure, it can really make a situation where I just shut it down.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Is that what you do? You just like go straight and shut it down.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

And it was a not a problem, but it was something that was coming up from time to time in our relationship until we started talking about it.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

I don't mean it that way, and and I can see what you're saying and how it comes across. And we talk through it, and it's not anywhere like that now. And it's not like it was bad then, but just those few times that it would happen, it would trigger me.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

I'm grabbing my ball and I'm going home.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Pretty much. Yeah. And that's not good in the relationship.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

No, it's not. You know, but you know, those are the things that we work on and stuff. It was just like how with Jamison talking about you just gotta go through that work, man. Yeah, like honestly.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

And figure out what it is and where it's coming from and how it's not like conducive for what you're in right now.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Because we all have our triggers, bro. Big time. Like, I don't think anybody as the human experience goes through this life without having triggers. And it's like, but just identifying them, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:10

What's a big one for you right now that you know that you is is from your childhood or when you were younger, and you know it still exists. I'll you're right. We have them, we still have them, but what's one that maybe is your biggest that you can think of?

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Well, right now, currently, and we talked about this the other day having coffee. My dad and stepmom are going through their situation right now, and they're using my social platform to have some of these conversations back and forth with each other, with each other, like on my feed, like passive aggressive jabs and stuff. Yeah, and I'm like, holy shit, I get you guys have your thing, everything's going on. Stop using me as part of your equation of this.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

So that's a sense of manipulation, like manipulating the whole you know, you like so they can get their message to the other person.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

Yeah, I'm commenting on your post, but it's really not about you. Right. It's about this other individual. And I'm like, that is so that passive aggressive and that just like manipulation again. Like, well, I know he'll comment on Thomas's post, so because of that, I'm gonna comment too. And then it's just like, dude, the fact I even have to like hide posts, right, right. Say something. Not only that, the fact that I screenshot it and I told talked to you about this, and then it's like having to reach out and be like, don't comment on my stuff. Or here's a concept if you have something to say, text the other person. Yeah, text the other person. And if it really is about me, then send me a text. Right. Don't write it on my social post.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

And I can I would say if it's if it's something along those lines, maybe a phone call so it doesn't get lost in translation in a text.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Yeah, probably don't call me at this point. I probably won't answer.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Good call, good call.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

So maybe it's just a text. That's hilarious. You know, but like honestly, knowing those things, like that kind of stuff is just like, yeah, those are like trigger things for me. Yeah, you know what I mean? Stuff like that. It's like being the middle person. Don't make me the middle person. But you feel used, yeah. It's like that's you to them. You're using me. Yeah, I don't like that with friendships, I don't like that with like with my kids and or relationship or any of that. It's like if I actually need to be involved, totally involve me. But like if you're utilizing something I've done to get your message across, I just feel used.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

And I don't think I have anything other than like the manipulation thing that triggers me. I have a and I've told you the the inferiority, I can't even say the damn thing. Interiority. In the complex.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Yeah, I still have and deal with that a little bit. But it was it used to be really bad to the point where I would say shit if I felt somebody was coming at me, get combative or be an asshole.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

In that situation. And situations where I didn't even know the or barely knew the person and just kind of lash out. I was big on that. It was like verbally lashing out. So I've gotten a lot better with that. I still have it, and I'm nowhere near like if somebody were to say something or allude to or what I I felt perceived they were coming at me. Sure. You know, like they're better than me or something like that. It used to be really bad.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Yeah, I think I'm pretty bad at that too. That was like going back to that whole people-pleasing thing and trying to create that. So now if someone like I feel like is undermining me or trying to like cut me down or something, it's really hard for me to just like bite my tongue. Right. I go straight to fight. Do you ever get your minds like you're in a situation, it didn't even pan out a certain way, but your mind starts playing it like if they would have said this, this is what I would have done. And I so those are great moments to reflect on. I'm trying to recall what what came up. I think it was something with a real estate deal or something that I felt like they were kind of like undermining me. And so I was just like, my ego was kicking in, and I was like puffing up, and I was like, Don't you dare like talk to me. And I started like getting triggered with some of those things. As I was like feeling myself ramping up, I was able to like step back from and be like, that's not how you want to show up. Okay, I acknowledge you. I acknowledge this side of myself, and it's not going away, it's there, but that's not how I really want to show up, and kind of being able to ease out of it rather than I'd get to the point, dude. I'm like ramping up, I'm having full-on like this is what I'm gonna say and do, and you know.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

But you it's funny, knowing you how I know you, yeah, you know exactly where that came from. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. You know, it's like you could just take that person and put it right there in in place of who's in front of you, and it's really not about them. It's maybe some things they said or whatever. You would when you get ramped up around it.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

I don't want them to feel the wrath of God because that's not cool.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

That was meant for somebody else. It wasn't meant for you. That's awesome. That's so funny. Dude, this was a great conversation. I love it, man. I love it too, man. So make sure you follow us on TikTok, on Instagram, and check out our website, dadhood.co. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Thanks, go.