Exploring Grief: Death Doula Insights with Nikki Smith - Episode 48

In this insightful episode of the Transcending Humanity Podcast, Vanessa Joy welcomes Nikki Smith, a dedicated death doula, to discuss the profound and often challenging experiences surrounding death and grief. Nikki shares her journey to becoming a death doula during the COVID-19 pandemic, detailing how she found this work rewarding and established her LLC to support families during their most vulnerable moments. The episode delves into the importance of compassion and empathy in end-of-life care, with Nikki recounting her emotionally taxing yet rewarding experiences, including working with close friends and navigating the complexities of familial relationships in her professional role.

Vanessa and Nikki explore various facets of grief and loss, touching on personal stories and the emotional impact of working with individuals facing death. Nikki sheds light on her experiences during the AIDS crisis and dealing with elderly abuse, emphasizing the critical need for empathy and understanding towards vulnerable populations. The discussion takes a poignant turn as they address the disproportionate impact of suicide on the queer community, particularly among trans youth, and the significance of acceptance and support in preventing such tragedies.

The episode also covers the practical aspects of end-of-life planning, including the importance of advance directives and accessible medical documents for queer individuals. Nikki offers valuable advice on establishing support systems for medical decision-making and finding community resources for end-of-life planning. Vanessa shares her personal strategies for dealing with online criticism and maintaining positivity amidst challenging times.

In a lighter segment, Vanessa and Nikki play a game discussing end-of-the-world scenarios, showcasing their dark humor and camaraderie. Through heartfelt stories, practical advice, and a touch of humor, this episode provides listeners with a deeper understanding of death, grief, and the importance of compassion in our lives.

More on Nikki:

IG and TT Handles: @nikkithedeathdoula

www.nikkithedeathdoula.com

Good Grief Podcast with Nikki the Death Doula: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/nikkideathdoula

As of September 2024, Transcending Humanity is now known as Vanesstradiol! Episodes will be much more sparse from here on out, but I hope to continue bringing you quality content!

Transcript

Vanessa: 0:19

I don't really edit the episodes much though. I've had a lot of tech issues. Oh, okay, so like we're recording right now. So if people listen to this sorry for last week with any tech issues, and we're suddenly like I was talking over, Sarah I didn't mean to be because I couldn't hear her and there is offensive group chat going on. So hopefully that will happen this time. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to transcending humanity. This is episode 4048 Alisha? This is episode 48 I'm Vanessa Joy. AKA when Australia your hostess with the sum of its asbestos stuff. And yeah I want to do a little tricky morning on this one or content warning or whatever we're gonna be talking about some pretty deep stuff. We're getting into death in suicides, stuff like that. This might get my lovely guest here. Hopefully, if I'm pointing this way in the final edit, it'll be pointing at her and not the other way. So my lovely guest is Nikki the death doula. So obviously there's going to be a little bit of depth talk. Nikki runs a podcast called Good grief. I was on I was a guest on it. Last week, aired last week. You really want to hear about all the bullshit that I've dealt with with my family and how it's not necessarily a bad thing to not be upset when a parent dies check out her podcast you should be checking it out anyways because she's Nikki and she is badass just a reminder the views and opinions of myself Nikki and anyone else that was in the show are their own and not their respective organizations this Saturday other that obviously I speak on behalf of transcending humanity. I would like to remind everybody Patreon subscribe that kind of stuff. Thank you to my buddy bears and above. And our merch shop is still there. And I'm thinking about making Tamala shirt. Where I say something like it's time for a woman to show America what great truly is. I think we need that so Anyways, enough yammering on this is a show where every couple of minutes in people are like the fuck is going on here. I would love to introduce Nikki Smith. The death doula. Actually, I will have her introduce herself herself Nikki. Introduce yourself.

Nikki Smith: 3:03

Hi, I'm Nikki. I'm Nikki Nikki Smith. I'm a death doula and a grief coach. I'm located in Columbus, Ohio, and I help the dying and their loved ones navigate the end of life journey.

Vanessa: 3:19

Which I mean, because there's doulas for birth. So why shouldn't there be one for end of life?

Nikki Smith: 3:27

Absolutely agree. Because

Vanessa: 3:29

honestly, the two events in our lives are pretty similar in a lot of ways,

Nikki Smith: 3:33

are dying is very much a labor. It very much is a labor and there's a lot involved in dying. So

Vanessa: 3:43

how did you get into becoming a death doula?

Nikki Smith: 3:48

So I had heard about death, doulas on a YouTube podcast episode years ago. And I just thought that sounded like such a cool thing. I'd worked in nursing homes, volunteer to hospice, and I was like, oh, that's like a thing. A thing. That's like a thing people could do that's so cool, and immediately became obsessed. I was finding everything I could find which at that time, there wasn't a lot. It's a death. doula movement hasn't been around super long. Just since like 2000, like late aughts, late, late early 2000s, I guess you could say, but everything I could find I was reading up on I just thought it was super cool. It was always in the back of my brain. But I had a very nice cushy full time job and it at the time, and I was like, Yeah, never actually do that though. Flash forward to COVID. And like everybody else, I was still thankfully employed, but I was at home with nothing to do but reevaluate my entire life on this planet.

Vanessa: 4:52

And it was can really, right

Nikki Smith: 4:54

I think a lot of people made big life changes during COVID. So I came

Vanessa: 4:58

out, UFC, I was after that.

Nikki Smith: 5:03

I can't say I did that. But I definitely decided to shake things up in my life. And I started training to be a death doula. I went to the international end of life doula Association, and day one of training first day down and I was I just knew this is what I meant to do. So, finish up the training started my certification process. And during all that I opened my LLC started seeing clients and here I am.

Vanessa: 5:31

That's, that's amazing. That's me so rewarding to have you. Yeah. How do you cope with so much death though? Like, are you able to step aside a little bit? Do you like try not to work with family members or someone that you're too close with?

Nikki Smith: 5:48

Or yeah, I, I always said I would not be a doula to a family member. Mostly because I mean, part of the reason I'm coming into this space with families is so that the children or the loved ones surrounding surrounding the dying person who I can talk today, surrounding the dying person can just be there in whatever that capacity is their daughter, their spouse, their loved one, whatever that is, they can just be there in that capacity and not do all the crap so to speak. So, you know, when it comes down to when my parents get to their end of life, I would rather be there as their daughter than their doula. That makes sense. Absolutely. So I, I like I said, I wouldn't do anybody to close to me, I did, I did serve as a doula for a very close friend. And I don't regret it, I was so happy I was there and able to help and they're very grateful for me as well. But it was that one was a lot harder on me. It took a while. It's, you know, I, when she when she died, I wasn't present at the time. But, you know, the her daughter texted me and said she, you know, she's gone now. And I, I didn't know how to process that, like, do I process this as a friend as the doula and it was very confusing for me. So I wouldn't make that I wouldn't do that again. But also, when I'm working with somebody I'm in, I'm in work mode, if that makes sense. I don't know my work is different than you know, typing away to computer. But much like a therapist is not going to be taking on their clients problems too hard, you know, and they're in therapist mode. I'm in doula mode when I'm working. That's not to say I don't care and I don't feel a lot of feelings for my clients, because I do I grow to love them, because I'm working with them in their most intimate vulnerable moments. But I'm also able to just kind of take that hold space, you know, I'll when I leave after work of the client, I'll take some time alone in my car and just feel the feelings hold their hold their grief, hold their sadness, whatever their, their thoughts or feelings were that day. And then I just kind of pack away in a little box and put it up on my mental shelf, and leave it there until the next time, I need to get it down. It's

Vanessa: 8:01

That's smart. It's, you have to do what you anything that you can do to survive with those kinds of heavy things that you're dealing with. And I mean, you see a lot of professions work with that too, though, like doctors, nurses, hospital staff, you know, as you said, therapists stuff like that. So you train yourself to step back a little bit.

Nikki Smith: 8:25

And it's like anything, the more you do it, I don't want to say the easier it gets death is always hard, right? And it's never gonna get easier. But the more you do it, the more you practice anything, the better you get at it. So it's a little easier for me to come compartmentalize and you know, put those feelings away when I need to. Very

Vanessa: 8:43

true, very true. Makes sense. So then, you my brain just stopped working. That happens a lot. Anyone that listen to this shows like Vanessa's brain stops working in mind to what we have like two neurons left, you know, stress so, right. So you work both with the person who is in the process of passing in their families. Oh, yeah. Who usually fires is it usually a family that hires years, it's something that seemed like a living will or

Nikki Smith: 9:24

so, so far everybody that has hired me has been a family member of the dying person. I have had people with diagnoses that have reached out to me just to ask questions or, you know, get a little guidance, but I haven't really worked with them in a full scope as a doula, but so far, and that's just the way it's worked out. I don't know how normal that is with other doulas but so far everybody that's hired me has been a family member their their person has been on board, I would never work with somebody who doesn't want me there. So that's the first question I ask is, do they know you're reaching out to me? And are they okay with working with me? And if they say no, and know that I'm gonna say that I can't help you. So I'm not going to force myself on anybody that doesn't want my services?

Vanessa: 10:08

No. You see that so often too, especially with elderly elderly abuse? Yeah, stuff like that. Where they just they start talking about these these People like they're just things and forgotten. And it's heartbreaking, absolutely heartbreaking. There's so many people that are just fully alone. I think I think you mentioned when you're interviewing me, like during the, during the AIDS crisis, where there were people that, like were dying alone, because doctors, nurses, no one wanted to go near them. And the heartbreak of that, like, oh, I can't even imagine. Yeah,

Nikki Smith: 10:54

yeah, there were, there would be so many people dying in hospitals. And when it was so new and stigmatized, there would be nurses that would refuse to touch them. And you have to physically touch people as a nurse, like, where they would just make it so limited. And I mean, sure, when you're in the hospital, you got, you know, one nurse for, you know, however many people so they can't spend all day with you, but they'll at least hold your hand and talk to you for a minute. But all these all these people dying of AIDS were like, the nurses would come in and like barely touch them, the doctors would stand at the other end of the room, and talk at them and then leave without ever touching them. And knowing it, knowing what we know now, we know that's horrendous. It was horrendous at the time. But I'm hoping now we're a little more compassionate. And now that we know how this is transmitted, that doctors and nurses are being a little nicer about this.

Vanessa: 11:46

We can only hope. I mean, not all of them. But yeah. I'm you said like death doula and modern culture is kind of a newer thing. But I would imagine it's has a long history back through the years have you done research on the history of it, and so

Nikki Smith: 12:05

there isn't much like specific. So, okay, so the to go way back. The word doula is from the ancient Greek word dulay, which is female maid servant. It's also translated as female slave, but I prefer maid servant. Right, so and so doulas have been around in some capacity or another since ancient Greek times, and most of them were there for births. But there's been references here and there of doulas or you know dulay working with people at different times in their life sometimes just helping out with the wedding or helping out with you know, sex so it's just kind of assumed that they probably were helping people with dying as well. And there are in other cultures there are people that are death walkers that do some basically what we're doing so a death doula is not a brand new thing, but a death doula as we know it right now, the trainings that are out there, the certifications that are out there are all new ish. So somebody just finally made a label for it, so to speak. Yeah.

Vanessa: 13:12

Yeah, like it's probably just like, absorbing techniques just built up through the years but I like your your point with doulas having been with other major events like wedding sex and stuff like that. A doula is a guide. Really. Someone to give you some direction, be it starting your life, middle of your life, major things, and I love that. Honestly, before I met you, I didn't even know death. doulas were a thing. So now I can thank Becky and her podcast collective for that. So Thanks, Becky. Maybe I should run one of her ads on this on this episode. Yeah. Yeah. So right here, put it right if I remember. And that's about like a gap or something. So like

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Vanessa: 14:45

Okay, there's an audio gap. Hopefully I'll find that. If there isn't an ad inserted right here, you'll know that Vanessa is just a flake because I am. So when it comes to death and dying, as you know, the show's fairly queer focused, it's not like as trans focus as it used to be, but it's run by a trans person and most of my co hosts are queer in one way, shape or form. One thing that our community's struggles with a lot is Um, we're almost we're past 10 minutes in. So this might eventually get monetized as suicide goes on YouTube and other algorithm. But it's something that is effective effectively for us. I myself had a incident back in April. And throughout my life, I've had suicidal ideation. It's only been since I'm finally on the correct medication and have my ADHD under control and have my hormones in check that I haven't had a suicidal thought in months, which is mind blowing for me, because usually it's everyday. So those in the queer community those not in the queer community, just, if you have those thoughts all the time. Know that it is normal. A lot of people a lot of other people feel this too. But you still need to talk to somebody. Yeah. So getting back to my point, suicide is a very common thing in the queer community, especially in the trans community, especially in the trans youth. And people find themselves suddenly missing a family member, in some cases out of nowhere, because they might not know how that person how much that person was struggling. And a suicide. It's one of those tricky things in that someone could seem completely fine. And the next day they're gone. Yeah, a lot of times is people that don't feel heard, or they are being oppressed in one way, shape or another. So for family and friends of, of the queer community. What advice would you have, especially if they didn't necessarily know that the person that took their life was queer in one way, shape, or form? What advice do you have for unpacking that? I know, that's a deep question.

Nikki Smith: 17:25

I know that is a deep question. So and there's a yeah, that's, that's a lot. There's a lot to unpack with that. But no, that's okay. It's a great question, because I get asked questions like this a lot. And so, even just a setback, if you've lost somebody in your life to suicide. There's a lot of cases where they sit, you'll hear I had no idea they were depressed, I had no idea anything was wrong. Or they might say I had no idea they were queer. And first of all, don't. It's it's easy to sit back and say, I should have known No, you probably didn't for a reason. I've had a long history of suicidal ideation, myself, and I, that's one of the things I don't talk about. Because there's stigma we all know, there's stigma around suicide. And there's stigma around feeling it or stigma around the act. There's stigma around the family members that should have known. And it's, it's stupid and unfounded. And that's why we don't nobody's talking about it. So you know, you probably didn't know you probably had no idea. Because they were scared, they were scared to ask for help, or they were scared to let it be known that they weren't well, and when it comes to the queer community, there's a lot of stigma with that, too. Unfortunately, it pisses me off. I wish there wasn't, but there is there's just too many people that are you know, ostracized by their family members, ostracized by their friends and find themselves completely alone and or worse, yet abused, hurt, attacked, you know, whatever, because of their, whatever their, you know, their their queer identification might be, and there's so much stigma with it, that they're terrified to talk about it. So they just see people around them being abused, hurt, or, you know, looked down on whatever and they say, I can't live that way. And they might take their own life. And there's nothing if it's done, it's done, right? You We can't change the past. I wish we could, but we can't change that. The number one thing you can do is if it's if somebody in your life has come has taken their own life, because they were queer, and they felt like they couldn't come out to anybody. For PUC sake, find somebody that's queer and accept them and just know that that's, that's the thing you can change. You can help that for the next person. There's so many people I work with or know that work in death and dying or bereavement or grief support, that have taken their grief and done something amazing with it. They've i There's a woman here in Dayton, who started a whole program called grief to hope for people who have lost their children. Younger or adult she lost her adult son he was murdered, and she took that she could have just disappeared into herself and beat herself up for the rest of her life or not being able to save her son but she turned it into something amazing. So turn it into something good.

Vanessa: 20:24

That's amazing advice. One thing that we constantly forget, just as humans, is we can't change the past. The past is the past, this past is the past. And I know it's much easier said than done. And personally, as someone that's dealt with a lot of abuse and trauma and stuff like that, it's only been somewhat recently that I'm finally letting myself dip away from all that and live my life. If someone has, if someone has taken their own life, or been murdered, or whatever reason is gone from your life in one way or another, that you don't have any control over. You set situation to learn. Yeah, especially if you find out some things about the person that you didn't know, like, if they're part of the queer community. Most people, not all people, but most people can grow and learn. And it's what you have to do. It's, it's how we will survive as a species is by having empathy. Yeah. And as, as Nicky said, you know, embrace someone else. Get involved with community. Let people know that you're safe and can be trusted. And remember that that trust is earned not. You don't just take it. Yeah.

Nikki Smith: 21:52

Yeah, use it to honor them in some way. Like when you see so many people that will lose somebody to cancer and they form a team for a 5k in there that raises money for cancer. And that's, that's great. Go to a Pride March. Go to raise funds for mental health awareness, like do something in their name, you know, plant a tree, I don't know, do something beautiful to honor their memory, so that they are still alive in some way. They're not physically here, but you can keep their memory alive.

Vanessa: 22:25

The pricing is pretty big. It's something that we talked about in our pride episode three episodes back. The free mom hugs free dad hugs.

Nikki Smith: 22:34

Yes. The thing that I do I do the free mom hugs. Yeah.

Vanessa: 22:38

Like, I know, there's some sad people that are worried that it will offend people in our community. No, no. As long as you're genuine. Yeah. Because we assess you out if you're not, but so many in the community, have been ostracized by family. And sometimes we just need a fucking hug. Yeah. And having a stranger. Willing to be that vulnerable with us is a major thing. And it can turn someone's life around, it really can. Simple things can turn people's life around, just in your day to day life. If you just make it a point, to not be an asshole to step one and kill ya smart, they'll

Transcending Humanity: 23:31

be an asshole.

Vanessa: 23:33

You would think it would be easy, but uh, so many people struggle with it. But like you don't have to go out of your way like you don't need to buy someone the car behind you at Starbucks a coffee which you shouldn't be doing anyways. Keep that money as a tip to the barista. If someone is in Drive Thru to get a coffee at a coffee shop, they can afford that car. Yeah, give that money to the people that are being graded by these assholes. That was on the side. And we shouldn't be on the Starbucks anyways, but yeah, they sponsored the urn. See those fuckers? I

Nikki Smith: 24:11

don't know. I don't like their coffee anyway, so I don't care.

Vanessa: 24:14

Now that I live in downtown, Maslen, there's a place here called treatment coffee. It's like a little local chain and they're so fucking good. So yeah, that's my go

Nikki Smith: 24:25

to your local places. I do that. Exactly.

Vanessa: 24:27

Exactly. But yeah, just excuse me. If I made myself that came up, treat people nice, like, you know, compliment a cashier in their hair or hold the door for somebody or just little things. Those little niceties. You could seriously save somebody's life without knowing it, just by treating them with dignity throughout the day. So

Nikki Smith: 24:56

just smiling at somebody could be what they needed that day. You know,

Vanessa: 25:01

I know I've been there. And I'm sure you have and I'm sure a lot of the listeners and viewers have to so it's it's hard, especially if you're having a rough day yourself too. But it's also a good way to turn your own day around by just kind of resetting yourself a little bit. it. Yeah. Have you worked with many cases with families where there's a suicide to help them through that? Or?

Nikki Smith: 25:28

I have not. However, I for three, four years, I was a volunteer at the suicide hotline. Yeah. And I do I also do grief coaching. And no, I don't think any of my clients lost anybody to suicide. But I've helped in support groups for that before. So I have at least spoken with people. But I haven't directly had a client. But yeah, I volunteered at the suicide hotline for a long time. So I learned a whole lot about suicide loss while I was there. That's

Vanessa: 26:02

amazing.

Unknown: 26:04

That's hard. Yeah, I

Vanessa: 26:06

can imagine I've, I've utilized that myself. These couple of years ago, I did that I texted them. And it's helps Yeah, the amount of empathy that you have to have to do something like that. Had to be hard in training. But then rewarding is

Nikki Smith: 26:29

there is compassion, fatigue is totally a thing. And mine kicked in about 40 minutes. If a call went on longer than 40 minutes, it was really, really hard for me to hold that compassion. And that sounds terrible. But I'm a human being to like anybody, anybody would tell you the same thing. And honestly, the calls that that were, we really genuinely help somebody that called in just like, you know, where they were really, you know, on the metaphorical ledge, so to speak, and just need somebody to talk them down for a second, those calls would be relatively short, and they felt great. You could tell like, okay, they're, they're okay, they're safe. They're gonna go to their friend's house, whatever. It was all the other calls, we got the people that just would talk your ear off for 45 minutes about nothing. The prank calls the poor, like, we would get the perv calls to like, who? Who, what? We would

Vanessa: 27:21

consider that.

Nikki Smith: 27:22

Yeah, you hear people whacking off and it's like, Dude, you call the suicide hotline to whack off? real classy.

Vanessa: 27:32

I never even thought of that employee has to.

Nikki Smith: 27:35

Oh, yeah, people there. Okay, I did. I do have one quick story about that. So I was I was, I worked midnight to 6am. Friday into Saturday. So I was busy on those nights. And I had somebody call in that. It sounded like a teenage girl who said, my friends here, she's gonna kill herself. I said, okay, and I went through the whole process and like, what's going on? Is there a weapon in the room? Does she you know, whatever. And they hung up, and I was like, shit. So you know, when they hang up. If you get their number, you can try to call it back. nobody's answering the call back again. And then they said something else about like, she's gonna cut and then I heard giggling and I'm like, Oh, this is a prank call. But you can't assume that right off the bat. So I was going through the motions. And I was like, you know, is everything okay? What tell me about what's going on What led you to this? And they hung up again. And I was like, I was pissed at that point. I'm like, No, this is a prank call. I kid you not. 10 minutes later, they called back and they apologized to me. Really? Yeah, they were like they got they were like, We got off the phone and we couldn't believe how sweet and like, caring you were like, You really gave a shit. I'm like, Yeah, I thought you were gonna hurt yourself. Yes, I'm here. That's what we do. And they were just so blown away by the fact that I was I cared enough to help talk them out of it. That they wanted to apologize to me. I'm like, Don't do that again. Like, thank you for apologizing. Don't fucking do that again. Okay.

Vanessa: 29:02

Hoping a lesson was learned there. Yeah, that's a yes.

Nikki Smith: 29:07

I mean, we're all idiots when we're teenagers. I'm a prank, too. And I was an asshole when I was a teenager too, but I have since learned, so.

Vanessa: 29:15

I don't I definitely did prank calls but I don't really even as weird as I am. I don't think I could have called the suicide hotline course I didn't know it existed. Yeah, it did exist then. I don't know. But I guess we should mentioned suicide hotlines. 9886. Or

Nikki Smith: 29:35

call or text call or text either one. Yeah. Yeah.

Vanessa: 29:39

And it helps it sometimes just as Nikki said, sometimes you're gonna latch and you can get talked down but shit in April with my own attempt. Like I was standing in the kitchen with a handful of pills for like 45 minutes, just staring at it. And Ultra cautious that one hand movement and I miss talk myself down, but it's not always possible. Yeah. Don't be afraid. There's no stigma at all want

Nikki Smith: 30:13

to know and if you're calling that line, I promise you the person that is answering You're not bothering them, you're not offending them. And they do care. Because we had like, I went through a 10 week training process, it was insane. The amount of training had to go through for that. And they won't let somebody do this. That's going to be rude or doesn't care. So that's the one thing I heard so much of as I didn't want to be a bother. It's like, Oh, my God, that's literally why we're here. You're so don't think you're a bother. Don't think you're irritating? Anybody don't think you're offending them just call for the love of Pete call?

Vanessa: 30:55

That's very important message there too, about being a bother. Yeah, that's I know, that's a feeling that I've had, and probably when you've had with ideation, and the entire point of the service is to help you. And they are there. Yeah, they're there to answer the phone or answer texts to talk to you, and you're not bothering them. So did you have to take like mandatory like breaks and stuff like that to like for a few days to?

Nikki Smith: 31:28

I'm trying to remember because it's been a minute. We were we only ever worked one shift a week. You could sign up for more, but I don't know if they ever like kept you? Or said you couldn't do more. I'm honestly not sure. And who knows, each center might be different. But where I was we were only manded. not mandated. But we were required to work. One shift a week. And that was it. And each shift was three to six hours. So you could work three hours a week. That's fine.

Vanessa: 32:00

That's a lot too. Oh, yeah. That's not a job that I think anybody could or should be doing full time. So oh, God, I would absolutely destroy your

Nikki Smith: 32:09

Yeah, I couldn't imagine like six. When we when you first come out of training mate, we had to do six hours a week. And for at least this first six months, just to make sure you really wanted to do it. And you know, plus, they really they were always short volunteers. We needed help so bad. And six hours a week was plenty more than enough.

Vanessa: 32:34

Can imagine. Yeah. You said it's a volunteer position. Yeah. Pay for that. So that means that if people aren't getting paid for it, it means that they actually want to be there. Yeah. Because otherwise they wouldn't be there. Yeah. That's what does it take to get involved to volunteer for that? Are there like, rules and regulations? I imagine that Oh,

Nikki Smith: 33:04

yeah. Oh, yeah, there's, there's background checks. Gosh, this was like 2016, I think when I started volunteering there, but I knew I had to go through a background check. I had to do two separate interviews. And then once I was accepted, I had to go through like I said, it may have been eight weeks was a very rigorous training program. And it was it was just one night a week, but it was like three hours, each every week for that whole time. And it was a lot of just learning about different types of mental illness crisis, de escalation, policies and procedures. And every senator might be different. I trained here in Columbus, for the local hotline, but we also answered calls from the national hotline to this was prior to 988. But there was the, like, 888273 talk or helper, I forget, it's been so long. If you ever call that number, it would route you to the local center to the area code you are calling from, which is great in the beginning, but when with cell phones, you know, it doesn't mean anything doesn't mean much. So we get calls from people in Texas, they just happen to have a 614 area code. But they try to get you to a local center because we have resources for like local hospitals, local places, you can go to if you need.

Vanessa: 34:27

Yeah. Which makes sense. And plus when you're talking to someone local, they they also know the unique pressures of that particular area. Exactly.

Nikki Smith: 34:35

I can't really identify with somebody in Phoenix who might be dealing with depression from the heatwave or California at the Santa Ana winds I hear that drives people to suicide a lot. So yeah, yeah, I read it. I did a an essay or not an essay, a thesis in college on suicide awareness. And I was reading up on different factors of suicide and there was a whole, like, tons of articles I found on people going a little crazy during the Santa Ana winds. And I know it's interesting. And yeah, weather can do a lot man. It can really play like people who live in areas that don't get a lot of sudden they get more depressed. Yeah, right. I Northeast

Vanessa: 35:23

Ohio. Yeah. Which a lot of people don't realize like everyone thinks like Seattle

Unknown: 35:28

when it comes to Seattle gets more.

Vanessa: 35:31

Yeah like Seattle in Northeast Ohio like we bounced back and forth for being the gloomiest. Yeah. And that's why there's a giant military base in Ravenna because there's so much cloud cover. But good is we got some deep stuff here. Is there anything else that you wanted to tell Yammer about while you're here?

Nikki Smith: 35:53

So the only other hill I have to die on is telling people to fill out their advanced directive paperwork? Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Please, if you do nothing else, fill out a living will. And your living will is the it's that's your Advanced Directive. That is the if I'm in a permanent vegetative state, no hope of cure or waking up. What? Do I want to be artificially kept alive? Or do I want you to let me go fill that out? Because if they don't know, they don't know. And they might keep you alive artificially for years. And oh, my God, that's awful for you. That's awful for your family, and very expensive. Yeah, it's just there's very little and yeah, there are stories of people that are in comas for 20 years, and they wake up, but they're never really the same. You know, when your time skips there, too? Yeah, yeah. So yeah, if nothing else, fill out a living well, for the love of God.

Vanessa: 36:51

Yeah, I actually, I have one that I did through Legal Zoom. And there you go back and like fully updated 50 bucks or something like that. There's not too much.

Nikki Smith: 37:02

You can you can use free services. Yeah, you can do them for free. Like in Ohio. I, I don't I can give you the link, if you want to put it in your, in your show notes. There's a link through I think is through OhioHealth. But they have all of the documents they Living Will final or not final a Living Will Power of Attorney, financial and medical guardianship, DNR, all of that in one packet. And it has questions like FAQs on which ones you need, and when. And all you have to do is fill them out and have them notarized. That's it, then they're legally binding. That said, if they're sitting in a drawer somewhere that that's not going to help you. So make sure somebody has copies of them. That

Vanessa: 37:44

was going to be my next question. In the queer community, there's a fair number of us that don't really have many people we're close to. And it can be kind of a lonely existence. What would you suggest people do with those documents to make them accessible for people?

Nikki Smith: 38:09

So first, before that, as far as like medical power of attorney is different than a living well, that's where you have somebody you would appoint to make decisions on your behalf if you're not able to. So that's not necessarily you're in a coma forever, you're not gonna wake up, this might just be you're in surgery, something happened, whatever, there's some reason you can't make medical decisions, they can do that for you. Pick somebody you trust, if they if you don't have one of those. And this is so important for people in the queer community who might be estranged from their family, they will go to next of kin. And if you don't trust your next of kin, or they don't align with your beliefs, they won't make the decisions you might want. So make sure you have picked somebody you trust. And this can be a friend, it can be a neighbor, just make sure they're okay with it too, because they have to sign the document as well. But once you have those forms, I know in Ohio, if you have an online my chart portal, which I like, I think every state has their own version of a my charts through epic. You should there's a place you can upload it. So your doctor's office should do that. Yes, I have it. It's really good advice. I have my chart for OSU and Ohio Health and Central Ohio primary care and I've uploaded it to all three places. You can give a copy to your doctor physically, like take a copy and give it to your doctor next time you go and say put this in my file. So they'll have that as well. That's

Vanessa: 39:36

good advice. Definitely. Good advice. And while you're talking an idea popped in my head of even just having a little coalition of local local people, local queer people local, just whatever. And sounds fucked up. But have a have a well, buddy, essentially, yeah.

Nikki Smith: 40:01

Fucked up at all. Not No, I think that's a wonderful idea. As long as as long as you trust that person, you know, they'll make the decisions you want, then yeah, there's nothing I wish I tell people. I have a workbook on my website for people who might not have family left or who are estranged from their family. How do I plan for by end of life, and I encourage you to dig deep like maybe if you're a part of an organization, is there somebody within that organ it doesn't have to be a church or you know, maybe if it's a religious organization, that's a great place to look. But a local chapter of, you know, like in Columbus, we have Stonewall Columbus, and there's a great organizations there that help people in the queer community, there might be somebody there that's willing to do that. put an ad on Craigslist, don't put it out on Craigslist. I'm kidding. Don't do that.

Unknown: 40:49

Don't do this.

Nikki Smith: 40:51

Don't do that. Yeah, just you know, if, if there's really genuinely nobody in your life, will find somebody for you ask, you know, ask around. There is a Facebook group that I'm part of called stand with pride in the Midwest. And I know they stand with pride and other areas of the country to where people can reach out to look for, you know, surrogate family members, like I'm getting married, and I want somebody to walk me down the aisle, who will be my my dad, and people will volunteer, I will walk you down the aisle. They'll ask people to show up at their graduation. It's like, yeah, so there are people out there that will do that for you.

Vanessa: 41:32

And that kind of stuff really, you know, helps give faith in humanity. Especially like, with us being just, especially lately just been bombarded by so much bad news, in fact that politics on, you know, the for profit news cycle and everything. So it's nice to hear the stories of people like that to show, you know, overall, humans aren't that terrible. Yeah, as much as I like to say humans.

Nikki Smith: 41:58

And if I find myself on Facebook, getting real pissed off, I scroll over to my groups, and I go find stand with pride and Midwest and I just read through posts and comments, and I feel good again. There are people out there that give a shit.

Vanessa: 42:13

There are and remember, if you're starting to get into like an argument or someone on Facebook or social media, just

Nikki Smith: 42:21

don't. Don't just there's no point.

Vanessa: 42:25

Yeah, there's no point there's there's no winning. And if, like I don't respond when people post critical stuff on things I post sometimes I'll just delete the post. Because I did that the other day with the Richard Simmons died the same day that that Trump got shot. Yeah, no. And so I'm like, in what universe is something along the lines of what universe is fair that, you know, Richard was taken from us, but the orange menace just got his ear clipped. And yeah, bunch of local realtors that never interact with me at all. jumped on, like, that's tacky. That's a horrible thing to say this. And yet I'm like, this fucker goes in front of people, and talks about how he would say, eradicate people like me, you know? So

Nikki Smith: 43:15

what's tacky is they didn't have the same response to children being shot in school.

Vanessa: 43:19

Exactly, exactly. Over and over again. So I'm just like, You know what, I don't even want this. And as, frankly, as a business decision, I deleted it, but don't engage is what I'm trying to say. It also takes away people's power that they think that they might have is known as power on the internet. You know, once you're in person. We're all just people just trying to.

Nikki Smith: 43:46

We're all fumbling around here on this blue marble. Exactly.

Vanessa: 43:51

So I've missed this in the past couple episodes, because, one, I don't know why I forgot to do it with Sarah last week, probably just because I'm flaky and the week before that ran long with Chloe. So we weren't able to do it. But I'm gonna bring back courage against. So this is the old school Cards Against Humanity, like the original deck, kind essentially. So there's no modifications to this at all. I'm just kind of going through and just loosely shuffling and the rule to this game. Nicki's excited. She's, like bouncing up and down like the rules are. You pick a card, and we have to come up with something to respond to it. So it's only black cards, not the white cards. But because, to me, it usually isn't a two person game, right? I remember. I don't know if you still do it or not. But there used to be like an eyeline like techspace version that you play with like, I played with my Warcraft friends. Oh, holy shit. The girls that we were playing with were fucking raunchy. It was amazing. It was the best thing ever. So anyways, so Nikki? Yeah, Okay, I'm

Nikki Smith: 45:19

ready. Here's a deck.

Vanessa: 45:21

Tell me like approximately where in the deck you want to pull the cart from right there. Right? Here are in like this. Yeah, right there.

Unknown: 45:30

That's fine. Here. Yeah. Okay.

Vanessa: 45:33

So, this is gonna be your card. Okay. and I are going to one at random. So the suspect code. Okay, so are you ready for your, your, your your stuff?

Nikki Smith: 45:54

I'm writing things already.

Vanessa: 45:57

Okay. I was gonna focus on this, the way the world ends. This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang, but with

Nikki Smith: 46:12

Okay, so we were all on SNAP with a bang but with glitter with glitter. That's

Vanessa: 46:19

a good luck enhancer. Can you imagine? I mean, enough glitter would just destroy the world. I mean, people use them as glitter. Have you seen this glitter bomb pranks? Yeah, those are amazing. So Good answer. Good answer.

Nikki Smith: 46:34

You could say you better candidate too, but I like glitter. Glitter

Vanessa: 46:37

is better.

Nikki Smith: 46:42

Craft Supplies it's true. That never goes away.

Vanessa: 46:50

If this episode weren't about death and stuff, I will tell you. It's the hurt piece of craft supplies. Yeah, because that's a quote. That's a that's definitely a quote. I'm hoping a little clip generator from Riverside.

Nikki Smith: 47:07

For that because that one Exactly. Is crossed. Fingers crossed.

Vanessa: 47:10

You never know what it's gonna do. Okay, so mine blank. Hit tested. Mother approved. Okay. I mean, there's so many things and it's just how raunchy to do we call yours was fairly yours is fairly clean. But as a lesbian, I'm just gonna say today's mother approved because I like it. My mom and I do love some titties both my both my own and those of other people.

Nikki Smith: 47:49

That's because Teddy's are fantastic. titties.

Vanessa: 47:51

Everybody loves titties. Everybody loves studies. Everybody

Nikki Smith: 47:55

loves titties. Oh, yeah.

Vanessa: 47:59

Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, not not everybody loves to these on themselves. Like I'm looking at, like trans mask individuals and stuff. Sure, but the trans mass people I've talked to still love Teddy. It's just somebody else. 100% Yeah, I'm so happy that I've grown my own there. It's just, you know, just looking myself in the mirror just laying there. I'm like, Oops. Oops. Yeah, too. These are the best. Yeah. Do you have any closing thoughts? Anything? That Yeah. Any anything else that you want to get out there? To my 90 listeners?

Nikki Smith: 48:40

It's okay to not be okay. But it's also okay to be okay. Like that's the lesson we learned from when you were on my episode. As far as death loss and grief, whatever you're gonna feel is okay, valid and normal. So don't there's so many people think they're grieving wrong. You're not how are you doing? It is exactly right. Just don't hurt anybody else in the process. Whatever you're gonna feel as I always had my episode, every episode with your grief is yours. Your feelings are valid. And grief doesn't always have to suck. So take with that.

Vanessa: 49:13

That's an amazing, amazing advice. And as alone as anyone feels in their grief, I guarantee you somebody else is the only one that feels that way. Somebody else has

Nikki Smith: 49:24

felt it thought it said you're never really truly alone. And you're it's isolate. Grief is isolating, but you're never isolating.

Vanessa: 49:31

But if you can find if you can find the strength within you to talk to somebody and you don't have to either there's there's there's no shame in not talking to somebody, but if you can, you might find some commonalities. Like I just noticed when I was on your podcast, just kind of unloading about my dad, especially the first time that we talked before that, like, it's nice to get all that out there. Like not a lot of people knew those things about me beyond like my therapist and my sons or their mother. So it's just getting it out there getting it off your chest, putting words to it can help a

Nikki Smith: 50:08

lot, so much. So, yes,

Vanessa: 50:12

it was a pleasure having you on the show. This was fun. And it was and thank you To me, thank you for having me. I'm yours. Yeah. And I kind of give people a preview of this because I ran your ad on last week's. I ran it another time too, but so, but definitely people go check out Good grief. Thank you, Nick. He's a wonderful person and I'm honored to get to know her and she's not too far from me either. So we're gonna have to we're gonna have to get a coffee. Yes, yeah. I need a trip to Columbus. So possibly because you either too, they're always trying to get me to come down. So yeah,

Nikki Smith: 50:54

if you ever doubt, let me know.

Vanessa: 50:58

I shall, next week and transcending humanity. Let's see, who do we have? Next week is Samantha Tiana or tanto. I'm not quite sure how to pronounce her last name. And the return of Erica vocal. Samantha is a published author recently has a book that just came out. And Erica is a frequent co host on the show. She has her own book coming out. So I'm probably just gonna sit in the background of that episode and let those two approaches him around about writing and stuff. And hopefully learn some lessons myself because I want to start my own my own book. And yeah, and the week after that, I have someone lined up hope it works out. He's a YouTuber, so be fine. Thanks again for joining us. Nikki. Thank you again, I know I said this already, but you know, and we will see you next time on transcending humanity. Laws. There it is.