(Writing) Advice from your Trans Aunty, Erica Vogel - Episode 49

This week on the Transcending Humanity Podcast, I sit down with frequent co-host Erica Vogel, affectionately known as "The Trans Aunty" and a soon to be published author. We discuss a range of topics from writing and creativity to navigating the complexities of transgender issues. 

Erica shares her journey as a writer, influenced by a strong family background in writing and her early passion for art and design. She delves into her career path, from studying graphic design to working in digital marketing and product management. The discussion covers Erica's motivation for writing, driven by the many questions she received from friends and acquaintances. She emphasizes the importance of practicing writing, finding one's voice, and embracing vulnerability.

We touch on the challenges of organizing thoughts and maintaining a clear narrative in memoir writing. We highlight the importance of focusing on relevant stories, emotional honesty, and setting achievable word count goals. Erica also offers advice on the writing process, including the significance of using both visual texture and the brain's speech centers for crafting compelling narratives.

The episode also addresses critical transgender issues, such as respectfully handling medical questions and the importance of educating new friends about one's transgender journey. Erica and I discuss strategies for maintaining privacy and dignity, and the need for compassion and understanding in these conversations.

In exploring the publishing landscape, Erica provides insights into traditional publishing, sharing her experiences and the importance of aligning with a publisher that respects the author's vision. The episode concludes with a discussion on political humor, internet culture, and the unexpected moments that bring joy and connection in everyday life.

Erica's Website: https://www.ericavogel.com/
Erica's Substack: https://ericavogel.substack.com/

As of September 2024, Transcending Humanity is now known as Vanesstradiol! Episodes will be much more sparse from here on out, but I hope to continue bringing you quality content!

Transcript

Vanessa: 0:19

I can see you're like, like spit on by the ocean.

Erica: 0:26

Oh yeah, you don't want to do that.

Vanessa: 0:28

Now I'll leave this in. If I'm looking back to transcending humanity, this is episode 49 or something. I'm Vanessa Joy in Australia. I am joined today by Erica Vithal your transient T which means it is it Auntie Auntie,

Erica: 0:46

I mean I say it is probably cuz just the way I grew up and you know how it's outside but I think a lot of people do say auntie, but I have always said trans auntie.

Vanessa: 0:58

I think Auntie is cooler. Did you notice I changed your discord name to the trans mountain tea?

Erica: 1:03

Actually, no, I did not.

Vanessa: 1:04

I shouldn't admit that you're the trans Auntie Taryn is transplant s

Erica: 1:09

she is? For sure. She

Vanessa: 1:11

She certainly is. reminder to people the views and opinions expressed on this podcast in YouTube are our own and not those of our respective employers or organizations or whatever. Reminder Patreon we like meat. Really like money? Even though my business is doing better right now I could still you know, it'd be nice to have the show like pay for itself. That totally that would be my ideal, I think so. And you can do you can put us on Patreon or on through Buzzsprout. And we have the merch shop, which I have the new Kamala Harris shirt up that I think I bought last week. And I've sold one of them. So, so far the merch shop has sold two things. A beat the sells, lady. Yeah, it does. I sold one and I system means bad. And it's one of the Kamala shirts and then I bought a bunch stuff myself but some anyways. Today I am joined by the lovely Erica, as I said, Erica is assumed to be published author. And so today we are going to be talking about writing. But Erica, it's been a hot minute since you've been on the show. So just introduce yourself go through what's up what's new, all that wonderful. Sure.

Erica: 2:35

Hi, everybody. I haven't seen y'all in a while. I think it was spring, the last time that I was able to be on still doing the same old thing. So you know, I work in technology. I have a partner. I'm super fucking trans and queer. And I've been writing a book. Well, actually, I wrote a book now I'm in the middle of publishing said book. Advice from your trans auntie.

Vanessa: 3:04

And your trans Auntie is Erica. And Erica is going to be giving advice today and writing about being a trans auntie.

Transcending Humanity: 3:11

Yeah, sure. Something circular logic.

Vanessa: 3:14

Exactly. Erica has sent me a copy of the book, I have actually just started reading it. I barely have any time to do anything. So

Transcending Humanity: 3:22

your Wakelin Ms. Let

Vanessa: 3:23

you know I've opened it. And it's on my phone now. So it's not too long. So I should be able to. But

Erica: 3:31

it's not too long, I think. Yeah, I think what I sent you is an 89 page Word document. In print, I we're estimating about 160. Because by the time you typeset and chapters and all that stuff, and double line spacing, it really almost doubles in length. So but something that I think most people could read and alone a weekend depending on your nothing's nothing's hard on there every every. It's really let me back up into what the book is. It is an advice column in a book. So there are something like 47 questions that I've been asked that I give my sort of perspective on. And each question gets answered in five to 700 words. So it's super easy to read. You can stop wherever you want. There's not a plot to follow. Right. So it's very consumable,

Vanessa: 4:24

which is definitely especially this day and age with our we all left the attention span of a gnat. So I know, and especially in the trans community, because we're all fucking neurodivergent and squirrel. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, do flex squirrels in DC. Does he actually

Erica: 4:42

have a black squirrel that lives in our backyard? It's like one of two that I've seen. I've also seen an albino squirrel before but not affecting the DC area. That was when I was in North Carolina.

Vanessa: 4:55

Yeah, the black squirrels came from Ohio. And it's interesting. They flee. From what I understand. I mean, rumor has it. It was like a genetic experiment at Kent State University. But who who's looking for that reason? Because science, I guess, but Ken is known as like, the black squirrels like kind of an icon in Ken. I should be a mascot,

Erica: 5:17

I guess. Yeah, I don't know. I just thought That was like a normal, you know, you know, divergence of species and colors. I mean, obviously we know as girls that sort of being gray and reddish brown, but when I saw black when I thought that was wild, but I wonder who lives in my backyard?

Vanessa: 5:34

Maybe someone listening can explain that to us. Yeah, but they're mean the black ones are there. Oh, there cantankerous. Oh, yeah. Like back when I worked in Kent. Like, there were, you know, your gray and brown squirrels and black squirrels and the black girls were always beat the shit out the other ones. Oh, boy. We could see all their stuff. Oh, yeah. Like black squirrels were wounded with like to hear missing off of their tails and stuff. That's no good. Okay. So that was an aside yet no large and ADHD. So what? What made you decide to write? Oh, gosh,

Erica: 6:15

so this is all a nice meaty story, right. So I am the child and grandchild and niece of people who have written their whole life, my grandfather on my mother's side. And my uncle on her side were both college professors. My grandfather, the head of an English department at university in Texas, my uncle was the head of the literature classics department, at Dartmouth University in the Northeast. And, you know, I was raised, like being taught how to write, even though it wasn't something I was really interested in. I didn't get a choice about that. So I grew up doing book reports in the summer for my mother, because she insisted. And by the time I got to high school, if people were having problems with their grammar and syntax and writings, the the English teacher would send them to me, it was help sort them out if he was too busy, which was something my mom did, she graded her dad's College, pair students papers in college for them, for him. So it's just kind of this thing that's always been there. I also grew up knowing far more than any teenagers should ever know about Homer and the Iliad, and Chaucer and all those classics, because that's what my family left. Not really me. My plan was to be an illustrator for Marvel. So you can see, although writing wasn't really top of mind for me, but it's a skill that I have, right? So throughout my career, I've always found myself needing to, you know, do presentations and write presentations and emails. And for my masters, I had to write like a thesis thesis. So there was this sort of process of learning how to write for business that I had to unlearn. In this book. I always knew I had some kind of book in me. I just wasn't sure it was never could really find that voice until I found Erica. Right. And I was like, oh, that's why nothing was really coming out. And then, during the first year and a half, two years of transition, I had a bunch of people ask me, you know, just sort of advice because I'm, I'm 52. I know that so surprising to people. I've been around for a long time. I've seen a lot of stuff. And you'll hear a lot about that in chapter one of this book. And someone that people feel, I guess, safe telling their secrets, too. I can't tell you how many people come up to me. And I think this is also kind of common with trans people. When other people come to us. They're like, Oh, I can tell you things. And so I've always been the sort of person that people ask for advice. I'm like, Well, I don't know, here's what I think you can do whatever with it. And so having been on the speaker circuit for a while for trans people, and getting all these questions from people kind of like, heart in their throat, like, I need to ask you a question. I'm scared to ask. Right? Like, I'm out as trans How do I go about finding a new job? What do I need to worry about stuff like that? So I had, I had lunch with a friend that I used to work with last September, October before they left to go visit family in India for four months. And she said to me, because I was like, I mean, I really want to write a book. And she's like, well, you should write about all the questions you asked for people. I watched you do it a million times really good at it. I was like, really? And that is how we wound up writing this book. So I went from knowing I needed to write something but not having direction to doing the thing that I do all the time and having someone suggest something incredibly obvious to me.

Vanessa: 9:56

I mean, it's what it takes a year we have to be beat over the head with a sledgehammer sometimes to be like, oh, yeah, that's it. This is what I should be doing. So yeah. But good luck. We could we could ask questions all the time. You like Yeah, I mean, me just as like, my little self I mean, Erica, you you're in front of people all like, with work and speaking at stoplights.

Erica: 10:19

Yeah, your people lied to you though.

Vanessa: 10:22

Not in a different way. Great. lonmark. Can you hear a lot more?

Erica: 10:26

I can hear a little bit. Well, we can. Oh, well.

Vanessa: 10:33

It'll it'll edit that out. So. So you pretty much have writing in your blood. But am I hearing some art in your blood to with the whole Morrow straighter thing.

Erica: 10:43

So when I was a kid, I was always a creative kid. Very dramatic. No surprise. And when I was, I think in elementary school, my best friend's for drawing all the time. They love that. And I was like, Oh, that seems kind of fun. So I just started drawing, making my own cartoon characters, and I got really good at it. And my favorite thing about school was art class. Like if there was an art class, I took it in middle school and high school, I think I took like four and a half, five years of art classes in high school, because now you didn't Well, yeah, I just loved it. And I had been drawing at a pretty high level illustrating a pretty high level, like comic books and things like that since I was in seventh grade. So I always thought, like, oh, I should go work for Marvel and draw for them. That's something that I would love. But also in high school, I had a chance to take a graphic design class, which was something I'd never heard of before. And granted, this is in the 80s, because I'm that old. So I got really exposure to how we make ads, how we make logos. And I thought, this is really cool. If the illustration thing doesn't work out. That's what I want to do. I also did other things like I did. I was on I was part of the video as part of the AV Club, audio and video. My dad is a a sound engineer, right? So I grew up in hearing music all the time and being in recording studios. And, you know, I know how to run sound. So I know how to do all of these creative applications, right? So I went to university, I went to study art, and didn't work out with illustration, because I just while I was good for me in my circle of friends, even though I won awards in high school, I was not that good. Right. At the time that I was planning to go to work for Marvel, there probably were 30 illustrators across the entire United States working for Marvel 30 out of 1000s, right. So that dream ended really quickly. But I jumped into photography and graphic design and really loved that. So my whole career until about 10 years ago, 15 years ago was digital design. So I didn't know that about you. Yeah. I've done tons of logos, websites, brochure books, quite a few coffee table books for people. I was actually a creative director of a decor Fabric Company for Heil, out of Germany, which was a weird experience. I've designed tradeshow booths, I designed, you know, billboards. And so yeah, I have like a really kind of creative background. And writing was never a huge feature, then it was always like, well,

Vanessa: 13:20

I know how to write a lien. That's handy to have. Yeah. And

Erica: 13:24

so I was able to leverage that. But also, I found throughout my career that I kept getting put in front of clients, because I was the person that could speak it to clients and hear what they wanted and hear their vision and make it NFS without necessarily having to do the work. So pretty quickly through my career, I stopped being the person doing the design work, I stopped, started being the person managing it. And after a set amount of time and work in the digital world was like, well, I should just focus on digital marketing and product management, which is what I do today, and I don't, I occasionally pull out Photoshop or Illustrator or figma, or InDesign, or whatever people use, and I can get around and do exactly what I want. But I don't do that for a career. And frankly, at this point, I would hate doing for a career. Pushing pixels around is not my favorite thing. It's

Vanessa: 14:12

my it's what I do for a living photographer. And actually, while as you were signing on, I was downloading an older version of Photoshop is to Neubert version is so bloated, I've upgraded him. Okay, I have a new CPU, I have a new graphics card, I have no running 64 gigs of RAM. And it's so bloated and slow. Nothing works. So I download an earlier version and see how it works.

Erica: 14:40

Yeah, yeah, so I haven't tried the latest version of Photoshop. And I will do and use Lightroom a lot when I need to. But I recently upgraded to the latest version of Illustrator and all of my keystroke commands don't work with my Apple Magic keyboard, it actually causes it to crash. So it's been wild to be like, Oh, I now have to like, click on things instead of do a bunch of keystrokes that had memorized over 20 years.

Vanessa: 15:09

Oh, I know. Yeah. The keystrokes. It's all about keystrokes. Like yeah, because I couldn't survive without them fast. Yeah, PSAT anyone. That's that works in Photoshop. And if you're struggling and you've been upgraded your computer and still not get any better, it's not using that your computer. It's fucking Photoshop.

Erica: 15:30

Yeah.

Vanessa: 15:30

So anyone at Adobe listening, go look on Reddit and all the people that are pissed off right now. Not that you care.

Erica: 15:39

Yeah. And I've noticed too that since they've gone to more of an online version, sort of like Microsoft 365 for the all of their business suite, like it's gotten slower, even though it's the install was local to your computer, that connection while running. Have you processes is causes, like extra lag? It's a problem.

Vanessa: 16:03

Yeah, yeah, that's definitely what I'm seeing. Because I have the subscription. But you know, I'm paying 60 bucks a month. I shouldn't have to install an old version. Nope. Just fail to do my work. You should not it should be fast and furious. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we were talking about writing now, weren't we? Yeah. So. So you had the idea. The idea was kind of planted in you, which is an amazing one, because anyone in the trans community can attest to this. So for our SIS listeners, we get asked questions all the time from, from cisgender people from other trans people, daylight or China's? Oh, yeah. Like, sometimes very personal. Yeah, time is a little bit more. We're out there. And I suppose probably make something clear here. Just because you know, a trans person, doesn't mean you can ask them about what's between their legs, or Amy's, like, if they're on medication. You don't have to medically transition to be trans. There's, there's no real rules to it. That is correct. Yeah. So I write about them a lot in the book, I can imagine. Be respectful, be

Erica: 17:19

respectful. And honestly, my message to all of our SIS Fred out there is that medical questions generally don't need to be asked. In the same way that you probably don't reveal your medical history to people you only kind of know or you work with or whatever. We don't want to either. And if you feel that you need to ask us that question. I think you need to ask yourself, why do I need to know that about Erica or Vanessa? Right? The only people who need to know my medical history are the people who share my bed.

Vanessa: 17:51

And your doctor. And hopefully my document does. Yeah, hopefully. Yeah, exactly. My, I mean, everyone knows I have a vagina because I've fallen out all over the place. But I'm, I'm an exception nor so yeah.

Erica: 18:05

And that I've been open to because you know, kind of in the process of writing the book and the work that you and I do, like we talked about that we give people advice. It's not a secret the things that I've done. But if you've not, when I make new friends that are CES, I had this happened not too long ago, where I knew someone kind of we were just kind of get to know each other. Well, we've gotten past kind of the acquaintance face, and I was driving somewhere. And she just launched into all of these questions. I was like, Oh, here we are. You're asking the personal questions, and we kind of know each other. Close to well, but you haven't been on this journey with me. And I really had to think for a moment. And for me in the moment, I decided to answer her questions for her education, frankly, that it needed to happen. But it's weird when someone asks you, you know, what surgeries have you done? That's not something that new friends or even regular friends asked people? I don't know that it's sensational, it's salacious, and people want to know, but honestly, it's not gonna affect your life to now and you're not gonna have enough information to understand what we're really telling you anyways.

Vanessa: 19:15

Otherwise, what Eric and I trying to say is Google that shit,

Erica: 19:19

Google it, there's tons of information, tons of great information and and frankly says people we know more about our bodily functions than you do and the language that we use is going to be way over your head. I know far more about how hormones work in my system than almost any sis woman I know.

Vanessa: 19:39

I have sis women asked me about heart my Yep, Jenny. Jenny was asking me about hormones. And I'm like, girl just get all the hormones that you can possibly get just stuff yourself full of estrogen it's best thing ever so yeah. So back to writing Sorry everybody again ADHD brain one thing like I I used to actually write quite a bit when I was little. I was like you're nerdy. Online real player like on my chat room fit like an AOL Red Dragon in Dragon realms, which was The column mode or something like that, it's right. So we could techspace role playing. And so I wrote all the backstories on my characters. When I played Warcraft, they were on the backstories on my characters, like I didn't research like to make sure that everything kind of fit the cannon. But my biggest problem I've they've had when actually comes to sitting down and actually writing some billing is I don't go into it with organization, because I'm such a stream of consciousness person, that I just start writing and kind of hope that books just gonna come out of my head. But

Unknown: 20:55

that's not how it works. That is not how it works. And no,

Vanessa: 21:00

so how did you like? Yeah, the idea here, but you're gonna read a book? Yeah. How did you organize your brain to let you do it? Like, what? What are your steps?

Erica: 21:17

So for me, I had a couple of things going for me, I am quite scatterbrained. But when I get focused, I can like really get into things. And from my creative career, I was one of the most organized graded you're gonna find, not because I am normally an organized person. But the way that I worked, I love adding tons of visual texture. You know, like, this won't make sense. If you're probably not finesse or another designer? Vanessa, my files would have like 75 layers in them. Like well organized. Right? Wow. Yeah. And like tons of texture, like building up multiple layers just to get like an effect. That's my favorite thing. Right? Your computer hated you. Yeah, well, that yeah, I would certainly wouldn't use the laptop like I do today for that. And. And finally, I found myself working for advertising agencies, inheriting files from other people and needing to organize them because like, oh, we this is the app we ran last year, but we need you to change the date, where the fuck is the date field in this file that I need to find like it's locked, and I can't get it to do anything, like, so I have to organize. So that sort of ability to get really invested in something and just label things really helped me now when I sat down to write. Knowing that I had that ability to come to get really invested in something I really worked to leverage that up. I knew from having started writing a couple I probably wrote, three made three or four attempts to write a book before I got to this one. And I know that for me organization was the problem. And like you said, you sort of just sitting down to write, it doesn't really come out that way. Maybe if maybe if I've after I wrote write my second or third book, third book, I could just sit down and write but I don't think I could do that yet. So when I sat down to write this book, I am because I knew the format. And I knew what I wanted to happen. So I wrote I wrote a nonfiction book, not like fiction. So I would handle fiction differently. So the first thing I did was I thought about, okay, what are all the questions that I get asked that are common that I think people need to hear. So I just started like stream of consciousness just in Excel, writing just the questions, not the answers, just the questions. And then like, Okay, this is really messy. Can I organize this somehow? Right? So I came up, organize things into six chapters that sort of kind of go together, you'll see in the book that there are six chapters, and the topics kind of loosely tied together. But I could have written 10 chapters, but I would still be writing that book a year from now if I did. So it was just that about. So I think sitting down and writing down, almost like an outline form is what works, what worked for me, I think it works for a lot of people. I do know that if you're a fiction writer, you start out with like you were talking about, like character backgrounds, you have a premise. And I've heard this technique where you kind of write the end of the story. And I don't mean like literally write the end of the story, but like, where are we going to be at? And then you sort of scatter everything to the winds as you go towards the front, who I liked. Right? So you start with like, here's what I want to get to. Yeah. And then you figure out well, when do I tell this little story and that little story? And I think when you think about you don't, you don't start off writing and you sit start off organizing in a bulleted list or whatever, it becomes a lot easier to translate that. And so once I had that I knew what each chapter was going to have and you all the questions, and I had more in there than I was that I used because I just needed to cut it down for length. So I was planning I already knew that I might need to chop some things just also based on like, hey, this one was way better. And it was longer than that one which was like I just too weak on that. Once I had that, that I was able to sit down and actually write and I think for me, what I did first was write chapter two, because that was the first chapter of really getting into questions. And chapter one was like the intro, it's the shortest chapter in the books like 25. It's like 2500 words. So I wanted to write that one because I didn't know where to start. And I needed to start started writing chapter two so that I could practice and I rewrote it probably four times Chapter Two before I did anything else, because I needed to figure out my voice. I will say, before I sat down with the book, I knew I wanted to write something probably six months before that. And so I just sat down and started writing little articles. I paid attention to what I was writing on social media, I paid attention to, you know, I started a blog, just as practice. I think we all need practice writing. Yeah, you know. And so being thoughtful about social media posts really helped me kind of get into this modality of writing and learning how to write again. And for me, it worked because, well, a social media posts that would be in depth was about the length of an answer to a question I wanted to get anyways, I haven't humorous which is really hard to do that in threads.

Vanessa: 26:25

Or

Erica: 26:28

in a blog, it's easier because you can just write as long as you want. So I think there's a there's a part of like, what's my premise? How do I organize first? And do I need to just practice writing like throwaway pieces, short stories, essays, just to kind of get your rhythm down. And there's, there's a lot to I think, the practice of writing that has to happen before you can write a book, I think that's something that most people don't really think of you is sort of like, you wouldn't run a marathon on your first day of running, you would run a mile.

Vanessa: 27:05

And maybe, right have to warm yourself up. You're stretching your muscles. Yeah.

Erica: 27:10

So that's what I would recommend to people that organization, if a no, no raise organizations, that easy to everybody, but it's probably the easiest place to start with. Because you, you, you gave yourself you build a structure of here's what I want to say, without having to write what I want to say yeah. And then finding little ways to practice writing, helps you figure out the ebb and flow like for me, I need to write something. I don't I know, like if I were to write something for a blog or whatever. I know that I want to write a question of wish I consider for while looking for a job as someone who's trans. And I would just sort of let that tumble around in the back of my brain for a day or two. And then it would sit down to write and I wouldn't worry about anything, I would just stream of conscious that shit out. Right? Just like not worried about grammar or spelling or whether the sentences make sense. I'm just unloading what's in my brain

Vanessa: 28:06

get the information on paper, just get it on paper. Don't

Erica: 28:09

worry about it. Don't judge. Yeah. Then the next day, because I'm really big on like, I need a 24 hour break so that my brain can work in the background. And then I come through and I'm like, Okay, this point was good. That point was good. I walk around, like, what's the order of what I wanted to say, again, I'm not really judging what I wrote. Right? So I'm like, Oh, this point was really good. And that makes sense. It's the first point. So I reorganize what I write. And then if I'm still feeling fresh with that topic, I will sit down and just literally rewrite each sentence all the way through because I've done a couple of rough drafts by that point. I once I've done that, then I usually walk away for 24 hours more smart, and come back, and then I'll take a look at draft good sentence structure. Is my grammar. Okay? Is the spelling good? Does it read and make I'll read it out loud so that I can hear it? And that's kind of the process. So I honestly write everything three times. Before I'm like, This is good.

Vanessa: 29:10

That's fine. That's where we've given some good advice here.

Erica: 29:15

Yeah, I think that's where people get hung up they get if you're a person who studied a ton of grammar and, um, was really rusty. So it took me a while to learn if you have all those rules of, you know, what to do exactly when and when is a colon or an Oxford comma or all that bullshit like, that stuff just flows out of you. But I think most of us we ever practice that. And if you just write without judgment and understand like, I'm not judging what I wrote, I'm just unburdening my brain on this topic and seeing if I have something worth taking forward, I think people want to get it right on that first cut. And I'm not sure today after a year of writing like this, that I could still I could get that in one cup.

Vanessa: 29:56

It's, it's, it's practice just with as you said, you have to practice writing. Just like anything else. And that is amazing advice for me because I'm in a mindset where I need to write it and have it right the first time. No, yeah. And good advice is to get it all out there. And then go from there. We're kind of from there. Because then you have all of your things and you can organize it, then you can start condensing. Yeah, the end, I

Erica: 30:27

think what that helps people do is just sit down and write. And sometimes I don't know how to start a prompt. So I'll just be like, I know, I will literally start typing. I don't know what I need to write here. But I'm about to write about looking for a job as a trans person. And I probably want to make these points. Within 10 seconds. I'm off to the races, right? I will just literally write nonsense and tell my brains like, oh, okay, we are doing this right now. And, again, like, I think you got to not judge that. And if you focus on spelling and grammar, whether it makes sense for me, I don't know that for you. That destroys my flow. Soon as I start to be like, Oh, I didn't spell that right. I've lost what I was gonna say. And I have to get restarted. I would rather power through 500 words that look like crap. But I got everything out. Then stop and edit things not always like that. That's how I am in this you're struggling with that part. Don't stop just write worry about how it looks or how it sounds later on. Just getting your ideas out there.

Vanessa: 31:33

Think you shed that's what they use for me. Yeah, no, that's that's the consistent that what I do, like, but it's, you kind of need to program reprogram yourself to do that. It's a hand. Exactly. Don't overthink it. Yeah, I'd like the simple to put it in

Erica: 31:52

even more in your context, right? Because I know right now you're in the place with your photography, where you're shooting regularly, I feel like I see a post from you like everyday at someone's house or whatever, pretty often. So your muscle memory of that camera is pretty much on point, you know, having done photography as well, like, the more you use the camera, the quicker I can focus and get F stop. Right? And the you know, the view the aperture within a couple seconds at first. No. Right? And it's it's sort of that's that's what I'm describing is that process to get to muscle memory takes time. Even if it's something you've done in the past, you need to remember how to do it. And so your first few forays need to be without judgment and just taking your time and you're not like with a photo you're not worried about whether the photo is good. You're trying to make sure can I use my camera correctly? Again?

Vanessa: 32:45

It's Ken reminds me of like learning to drive where Yeah, because there's so much muscle memory involved with that. Like if you think back to when you learn to drive, you were terrified you were overthinking everything, every little thing. And now we've got to fall asleep at the wheel sometimes because it's we're so just chill

Erica: 33:01

about it. I remember being terrified when I was driving down like the highway was less terrifying to me than like a little side road right? Where someone was gonna be driving right past my car. And that gave me the the most terror until I got used to that and writing a book is, is just not something we pick up and do must we've written a bunch of books, unless it's our job. And it's, I would say today, it's still not my job, it's something that I am hoping becomes a job. I am not good enough yet for it to be my full time job. I am still it's like going to college, I am still learning how I write. And that's an important thing to remember. For those of you that want to write, there is how other people write. But there's then how do you write and what's your process and what your sound is and what your voice is, if you have books that really resonate with you pay attention to those, but you have to find your own thing. And sometimes it helps to mimic others to kind of get the process going. But then you need to find your voice. So in that, that when I wrote that second chapter four or five, probably honestly, six times mostly what I was looking for was what is my what sounds like me if I said it out loud, but wouldn't be obnoxious to read.

Vanessa: 34:17

Write because of balance. Yeah,

Erica: 34:19

because I repeat myself. Write what I taught. That's what I'm waiting to see. Like when does Vanessa's eyes open up like she gets it? So I'll keep repeating things, but I cannot write that way. So I had to learn how to think of well, how does Erica sound? And what would I wanted people to read this B book and be like, Well, that's exactly what she would say. But in a more condensed form because it's it's words on a page. And that took me a while to find.

Vanessa: 34:45

That's yeah. Because I do like to write how I taught but obviously I can't put in in a like in a whatever all my filler words it becomes

Erica: 34:55

obnoxious. That's the thing that really caught me it becomes obnoxious to read filler words. And there are books that I read today fiction books are where we're reading people's conversations. And there might be one filler word in there like but if they were the real amount of filler words in there, it would be really obnoxious to have to read that and so stripping that stuff out is that's what I had to figure out how to do how to word economy is a big deal and right And

Vanessa: 35:22

then that's, that's kind of like where speeches come from then to your, you're trying to get your voice out there and then say it aloud. But, and it's hard. It really is.

Erica: 35:35

One other trick that I tried at first, I don't do it anymore. If I was really suck at what it is that I would just turn on my phone and talk about the topic I wanted to write. Right? And then I would take that and be like, Okay, I will, I would listen to it. And then I would type out a more condensed version. And that that really did went a long way for me to find what my voice sounded like from speech to book. So that's another technique is try just audio, recording it and then rewriting it.

Vanessa: 36:06

And in because it's also using a different function in your brain to where you're using your speech centers instead of reptile centers when you're writing totally soon, because somebody like, it's very fact like conversations in general, like you can have a conversation on the phone with somebody and you just both just em around and memoranda and Yammer and, and, but like if you sit down to try to write a phone conversation, that's complete different things. So Eric is saying, like, say it out loud, and then kind of go from there. So

Erica: 36:40

yeah, it's a great technique. And and, and if I was, when I there's a few places in the book, where don't i don't really relay a conversation in a sort of free, give a truncated recounted version of that. And I actually just recorded what I remembered, because it's really difficult to think about, like, if I was to write out a transcript of what you and I just said, I wouldn't even know where to start with that. And it would sound so it wouldn't sound like two people actually talking.

Vanessa: 37:10

So once you're into the nitty gritty of it, did you find the period where the flow started coming out a bit more steady? Yeah,

Erica: 37:19

it was hard. At first I wrote. It took me the longest time. At the halfway, it took me about six months to write the book, I wrote a third of the book in three months, and the other two thirds and three months. So like, there is a flow that happens. And for me, I don't know how other people operate. I am a, I like to build habits buy in the smallest ways possible. I find that's how I'm successful. So I would sit down and write for 10 minutes. If that's all I had that day, right for 10 minutes. That's a couple sentences, right? It doesn't sound like progress. But eventually that 10 minutes becomes 2030, you kind of get into that process for me, making time every day after I finish work. But before I was tired, or if I had a break at lunch or something to just write for a little bit or to think about something and organize. That's when the flow happens, because then I can just sit down and go, right? If so, like you don't have to, there's a thing now that I've, I'm sort of on the author sides of threads, people out there reporting out their word count daily, and if you're a new author, ignore that bullshit.

Vanessa: 38:29

Bad, which I mean, not here's, here's why, like our friend,

Erica: 38:32

Sam Smith, a tanto, who was supposed to be on with us today, but but wasn't able to. I watch her word count. I think she reports on that most a couple of days. And like, she's working on her second book, and she has ripped through that book and a couple of months now with me, if I was a new writer and seeing like she wrote 45,000 words, in a couple of weeks, I'd be like, I'm done. I can't do that. Right? So ignore what other people are doing when if you hear about that stuff, I know it's fun to track, but it's honestly gonna give you anxiety until you have that habit. And granted, my book is about 35,000 words, Sam Tenos. Books are way longer than that. And they're fiction, right? So I also set like a limit, I do like 30,000 words, probably 80 pages, probably 160 in print, that's pretty good for what I'm trying to achieve. I was not trying to write a tome. And eventually after I got that flow going, I started being like, well, this doesn't really fit. It's a good topic. But maybe that's book too. Or maybe that's a blog post because it's just not working here. I was not afraid to cut stuff out. Nor was I afraid to say this chapter needs to be 5000 to 7500 words.

Vanessa: 39:41

And that gives you some constraints to work with and to

Erica: 39:44

totally, especially if it's done fiction. People's tolerance for nonfiction is not as much as a fiction book that typically not as engaging depending on your topic, especially if you're writing a memoir for God's sakes, oh my goodness, like word economy is going to be important because you just cannot recount every important thing that's happened in your life. And if you set out to do that, you're going to come up with something like war and peace. Yeah,

Vanessa: 40:06

that's what I'm going to be doing is a memoir. And that's so if it's go ahead, sorry. Now's the keeper soup. Keep it simple, stupid.

Erica: 40:18

There's yes very much. So there's a lot of memoirs out there for trans people, I think it's a great thing for us to write about. It helps people who are sort of trying to figure themselves out. It helps people kind of new to the path. It helps our SIS friends, family, co workers to read our memoirs, I love transmitted warrants, I've read quite a few. I think my advice for those of you that want to write a memoir is to think about, you can't tell your whole life story. You just you're not going to hold people's attention. So like, obviously, I'd assume you'd write about being trans. But so what were the I'm actually not? Oh, okay, cool.

Vanessa: 40:56

So if he's not writing about that, it'll be in there. But So figure out

Erica: 41:02

what's the message in your life that you want people to read, and just go find the things that connect to that not everything. Like, if something happened at five years old that you recall, fits into that message? Great. If the things that happened from five to 10, don't leave them out. You're just writing stuff that's filler, it won't move the story forward. Figure out what you want to tell in that bit more.

Vanessa: 41:28

You don't want to lose the audience. Yeah. Plus, it's just

Erica: 41:31

it's it's impossible to write all that stuff and keep it interesting. When I say my favorite memoirs, they do a really good job of being like, a memoir is a bunch of stories connected together by whatever the central theme is, right? So it's like, oh, here's something that happened to me when I was seven that I remembered, right? Here's something that that happened to me at 10 that I remembered that kind of fits in with that. Here's something that happened as a teenager. Here's something that happened later. Like things that fit within the premise, not everything, and they'll or cut down on what you have to write. Dig for memoirs, where people kind of lose the thread is that it's a story made up of a bunch of little stories. So when you want to sit down to start writing that, pick it pick a thing that fits within your thread and just write that one little story, whether it's one page or 10 pages, and see if that works.

Vanessa: 42:25

Yeah, that is good. Yeah, I'm like, I've already done kind of like a draft, a memoir. I don't know if I ever sent it to you. I wrote it now. Right after I came out, I'll send it to you. Okay. It's about my family and family business. Oh, yeah. I

Erica: 42:44

didn't know that. Y'all had affiliate business? I know nothing about it.

Vanessa: 42:48

It's kind of like I was the the What's that?

Erica: 42:55

She like the chief operating officers. I

Vanessa: 42:58

was the everything so I was I was everything. I Senior VP is what my official title was. changer for resumes. Who's the younger Royal Thai?

Transcending Humanity: 43:10

What's his name? William. No, not

Vanessa: 43:12

Well, yeah. Very hairy. Like how he wrote the book, the spare. And my situation while definitely not on that level, was kind of similar. A lot of my

Erica: 43:25

family business, like is the heir apparent. I was the backup. The backup, like this bear. Exactly.

Vanessa: 43:33

So. But yeah, like I've been like unpacking trauma and stuff like that through therapy. And I wrote these this like, kind of like, it's like a three part memoir. Separate between like, like, 13 year chunks or something. But I kind of wanted to use that as like a basic guiding point. And then expand on the things that need to be expanded on, and maybe not on the things that doubt. So

Erica: 44:08

exactly. Everything doesn't belong in the book. And well, yeah, I don't want you to be ruthless with yourself. I want you to be ruthless with your stories. If they don't tie it to the central theme you want to tell. Save them, they can be for something out, find the stories that and try to describe that moment. Like it's not just like, hey, when I was eight, my parents divorced, and I moved to Florida. That's not a story. The story there is my parents divorced, when I was actually forced much sooner that and we moved to Florida with my dad and my mom disappeared for four years. And so we were living on some family's property, and a little white house. And, you know, and I can, you know, describe the house to and then sort of like, well, what's important about you being there? Well, I had to figure out how it was like to live without a mom in my in the picture for a while and I just started a new school. And I made friends that I had problems with and like you could very quickly tell a little story about that. Right? But like the thing that happened at 10 on the soccer fields, when we didn't win In the game, if it doesn't really bind to the central premise is a waste is wasted writing,

Vanessa: 45:25

if anything, use it possibly as an anecdote, but

Erica: 45:29

yeah, and, and when you read, I know that you're just beginning to read the book, when you read the book, I kept things pretty high level, like, even, because I'm doing things in five to 700 word prompts, I can't tell a lengthy story, I just can't. So I kind of give the high points. But then I use that to be like, here's, this is something you should think about based on experience that I had. And here's a recommendation. So I don't tell you what to do, I really leave you with, here's something to think about. And then you make your own decision, the point of this book is helping you make better decisions for yourself, not me telling you because that's not a job that I want. So in your memoir, you got a, I listened to you tell stories before. And so you can tell a story, you could literally think of a story that you want to tell for that memoir, and say it out loud, to someone that you trust to just hear it, and take their feedback and be like will be cool. And I think the thing that's important to convey to people is they need something to hang on to, especially if it's a story that needs to feel real to them. So describe the scene set the stage and whatever makes sense.

Vanessa: 46:34

I know thank you. Shit. Yeah, cuz like I was my plan that I had in my head was to like, start at the beginning and just go from there. And organize. Yeah, now I'm like, Okay, you all have to know focus on the big stories, the wild moons that when I tell people the story their jaw had suffered, or yes, and just do those.

Erica: 47:01

Yeah, I'm in my book. My stories don't go in sequential order. They are literally trying to help make a point. One of my favorite memoirs is Billy Porter's memoir, unprotected, and he starts off with what's going on in his life. And he writes this during COVID. And like just being civil angry at Trump. And so the this book is really like, kind of being this unhinged place about what's going on with COVID and Trump and trying to protect him and his family and his job, while occasionally reaching back to tell you about the first time he sung in front of his church. But then the next day, he might be his first Broadway gig, and then he might come back to something that happened as a 12. Because it wasn't about the chronological order. It was, what's the point I need to make next and what's the story and I have my life that props that point up, don't worry about chronology. Worry about. What's the main point that I want to make in this chapter or this section? And what story do I have that props that up?

Vanessa: 48:01

You just blew my fucking mind. Yeah, like,

Erica: 48:04

don't worry about sequence. The old time sequence matters is in fiction. Yeah.

Vanessa: 48:09

Fuck. And now I think about it. Like I remember reading like, like comedy. More. So this is one guy I forget. His name is like this absolute fucking pig. There's a movie about it. Like where he shit himself in a hotel lobby or something like that. But I was reading his books, and they were fucking hilarious. And they are a guide for really cared for how men should not act. Yeah, His stories were not in sequential order now, and it was. Yeah.

Erica: 48:42

Yeah, let's see. There are no, maybe I'm not well educated on this, enough enough to tell you. But I firmly believe that there are no rules when it comes to writing outside of readability. These, there's no rules, break them. Tell the story you want to tell throw out convention, throw out sequence if you need to describe the story in lush detail, and then the next one, and brushstrokes. Right, the way that makes sense. See, what's important is is that when people read it, they're like, I get the NASA that sounds like what she would say this sounds like her life, we write poori it's a love affair. It's effectively a love affair, because you're gonna write this thing for a while. And then you got to do the unimaginable. You're gonna have to turn it over to someone to judge and decide what should happen with it. Yeah.

Vanessa: 49:37

And when that shuts out of your control, yeah. And then all of your bra, everything that you've poured into this work that you've done, and then they take you they take it, they may start beating you over the head with it. So it's I mean, it can be brutal.

Erica: 50:00

And I think for me, having spent so much I'd love to tell stories of but we're a family of storytellers, right we like when if you you know if you're ever in the DC area you hang out with my wife and I you're going to be we're going to be competing to tell you a story we love to. So I have practice. I have practice in writing but I I had to have faith in what I was doing and why I was doing it as the driving force, and what I had to keep going back to as well, people keep asking for this from me. Right? And and, like I said, it becomes this kind of love affair. It's, it's, it's like giving birth, it's laborious, it's a lot of work. And then you have to, like, let it go so that people can edit it. Right, which can be really rough. So I would definitely say if you're thinking about writing a book, you got to work on your self criticism, because A, you need to be honest with yourself in your writing, like, huh, this doesn't sound right, what should I change and be someone else is going to have to edit that because you're probably not good enough to edit your own book. Right, then, and then you have to do the phase that I'm in, I have to come and beg all my friends like Vanessa and be like, can you read my book and give me a review? Because I need that for marketing?

Vanessa: 51:16

Anything?

Erica: 51:17

No one has read this book yet? Well, maybe 20 people have read it now. Right? So you have to use sort of constantly putting this incredibly vulnerable part of yourself out there, whether you're writing fiction, or nonfiction, or writing about someone else, it's still coming from you. Right? So get, I think you have to embrace that vulnerability. And the more you embrace that vulnerability, the better your writing gets people, that's what they connect with. Be.

Vanessa: 51:44

You have to learn to remember that, you know, it's especially like if you have to set a publisher, and they want to make money off of it, too. So their words under this is what we think will be the make the most success, you know, now, they may not always be right. And I mean, you see that in the film industry constantly. It's an amazing script, and then it gets ripped up. But yeah,

Erica: 52:13

so let's talk about that for a little bit. Yeah. Because I think people need to be aware of this if you you know, because as you get, once you, I think once you get past the halfway point, you're like, Oh, I'm, I've learned how to do this. Right, and you start thinking about the end stage, you get to get there. But then you got to get in front of a publisher, and I was gonna wait till I was done. Now my wife has. She's, she's a retired academic. Now she works in the private sector, but she has two books out there. And she's like, You do not want to wait, because of the publisher wants to change what you're writing, then you've wasted a bunch of

Vanessa: 52:45

time. Yeah, yeah. So once

Erica: 52:47

you handle us six months, once you have a couple of chapters, start looking into publishers, there's really three ways to go. There is what we think of as traditional publishing, where they do all the work for you. Right, you give them a managed manuscript. And, but you also make the least per book on that, but then you fork over, no money, right? These are like the penguin publishing house types place. So the thing that's difficult about that is in order, you have to have something amazing to get their attention. And if you don't have a literary agent, it's going to be even harder. And you're not going to have literary agent until you have a book published or unless you're famous already, which I don't have. So I didn't either I submitted to like one or two publishers, but never heard anything back. Then I looked at self publishing, which everybody can do self publishing, but it is the most work because you do everything and you pay for everything. So you got to edit it or hire an editor, you got to design the cover or hire someone who's on a cover, and you got to pay all the printing costs and set all that stuff up. So if you were not a very organized person, this be a great place to have when Sam's up to be back on because that's what she did. And then there's the third version, which I did, which is called hybrid publishing, what you do is you basically hire someone to be your publisher, they do some of the work, you do some of the work. So I actually wound up so the cover of my book that that when threads recently, the first couple of versions they did they just weren't working for me. So I was like, Wait, look, I was the designer, let me just and I banged out, like six versions over two days. And they love the first one that I did. And as a great have your designer make this into reality. And they made like a couple tiny changes. So that's not something I would have with a traditional publisher. And if I was a self publisher, I would have to do that myself, which is not not easy. So hybrid publishing gives me the only thing that publisher has rights to is the manuscript that they printed in book format. So I could if I'm not happy with them, I can take this go to another publisher, have them reprint the same book. And I own everything, right. The only thing I don't own is like this version in print. Yeah, so it gives me the most control. But it does mean you have to have some expendable cash to do that. Right? Because you're hiring a firm to do it for you. I happen to be in that position. But it also means that I'm going to make not as much as I will put self publishing but I'll make a couple dollars per book that I sell, which is better. Yeah. Which is better than Unlike traditional publishing, because they're gonna sell that stuff in volume, but you might get like $1 per book, which sounds crazy, but when you sell a million of them,

Vanessa: 55:27

it adds up, click alright. So, right. So you

Erica: 55:31

need to look into publishing. Once you feel like you, you're underway, and you know what you're doing, you know where you're going send them the sample, I would say find someone who feels like a partner. This is your vision, you've invested tons and to get into where you are. I went, I found a queer publisher. Because I'm doing a queer book on transactional, probably smart, and I loved her we connected instantly. And what I wanted was someone who got my vision and wanted to bring it about not someone who's like, I can make money off your book, she will make money off my book. That's not her motivation.

Vanessa: 56:05

Yeah, the money is that that's when you know, you're working with the right person when you have the money. Isn't the primary focus, you know, we all have to make an income. Yeah, yeah. We live in. Yeah. But when there's some passion involved with the two that really, really helped slay him, you know, when you're working with someone that loves what they do, he hadn't read it and just go through the motions. That's how I tried to sell my photography. Yeah, look, I note like, I proud of what I do here soon.

Erica: 56:40

Well, and you you have something that I think I think you particularly but I think also trans people, people who've gone through transition, whether it's social or medical or and or legal, right, but you as a as a creative, right? You know, what it takes to bring about our projects, you know, that things look messy, and the beginning and they get better, the longer you work on them. In transition, things are messy in the beginning, and it gets better the longer we do it is a long haul it is a fucking marathon three plus. At a minimum, you remember I first six months shit, cuz they're a fever dream, and I must have been the most annoying person on the planet in seat. I love with all you new trans people, please know that it gets better and it gets a lot less chaotic.

Vanessa: 57:26

It's a learning curve, just like anything else. Yeah.

Erica: 57:29

So I think the skills that we use in transition in researching medical procedures, and dealing with the administrivia of like, medical forms, and insurance, all of that accuracy enables us in our writing, because it requires stick to itiveness and organization and like pushing through barriers and getting shit done. And talking to people and writing a book is not actually all that different. And when you have a creative endeavor, like Vanessa, you know what it's like to sort of bring forth something creative from yourself. Just because it's words doesn't mean it's all that different than knowing the your aperture and F stop for your camera.

Vanessa: 58:08

Yeah, exactly. It's all it's all. all flows together in the end. So yeah,

Erica: 58:15

I think the final thing that has to happen is, frankly, you gotta believe in yourself. It is. It is, there's so much work. I'm not trying to dissuade people, please understand. But like, in order to pour something out of yourself like this, you have to believe that you have something to say that we will want to hear. And you have to be willing to like come back to that well, because you're gonna have days where you're like, my writing is shit. I don't know what I want to write about. I can't write anything. This sounds like garbage. I can tell you the panic, I was so happy with what I wrote halfway through. And then what I had finished with I was like, Oh, this is amazing. And 24 hours after I turned that into the manuscript, I was in like, I am the worst writer and I am should not have wasted six months. But I should have done this and like, now that we're in this process of my cause it's great again, right? So you gotta be ready to kind of ride those emotional roller coasters, but you got to you got to commit.

Vanessa: 59:11

And be sure you have a therapist, and then walk with you through all that shit. How Yes,

Erica: 59:17

have someone to vent to talk to your therapist, your partner, your friend, someone you trust to bounce ideas off of other writers don't compare yourself to other people. This is your story, not theirs.

Vanessa: 59:30

Well, Erica, you just I know you just helped me a lot. And I'm hoping a lot of people are 90 listeners. I'm sure there's some people within there that are that have also had the idea for it. But I think we always join us. Yeah, yeah, we do. We do. I mean, humans are we we love history. In one way, shape, or form. Yeah. And, and like, stories everywhere true and fiction. And if it's in you, let it out. But I think the message here is try not to overthink it and let it flow.

Erica: 1:00:16

Small small bites Ed Then the small bites become bigger bites.

Vanessa: 1:00:22

Do you want to do the Cards Against Humanity game?

Erica: 1:00:27

The I'm sorry, is that something you're doing on the podcast now? I'm aware of the game but not

Vanessa: 1:00:31

yet. It's something so it's up to you whether or not you want to

Erica: 1:00:37

steal it. I love that game so I don't think I've ever played it with you or on a podcast.

Vanessa: 1:00:41

It's like I got the idea from like less last week I had Nikki the death doula on and she does says yes cards at the end of her podcast. And like cards, what cards I have. And I looked over to my left, and I saw this my old box, like the original Cards Against Humanity, or some like, what if we, like, when Jess hosts a show? They like to do an icebreaker? Oh, it's so this is like an after icebreaker. They're totally like a cooldown, where we each just we pick a black card and then we just come up with an answer for soccer can be the word. So okay. I'm just doing a little bit of a shuffle. So around where in the deck Do you want me up there? Right here,

Erica: 1:01:32

right there. Yep. Okay.

Vanessa: 1:01:36

All right. So that's your current. Cool, and I'm just gonna grab one at random. This is my card. So for you daddy's why his family tree

Erica: 1:01:52

okay. Do I answer now? Are you go first with yours?

Vanessa: 1:01:57

Then you can answer now. I haven't really solidified roles.

Erica: 1:02:02

Daddy, why is Mommy crying? Because her baby boys already dress and looks fantastic.

Vanessa: 1:02:12

So, yeah, okay, yeah. Yeah, I've read Daddy and I cringed, you know?

Erica: 1:02:21

Well, it could be daddy. Where's mommy crying cuz she needs a bad

Vanessa: 1:02:26

mood. Yeah. Okay, and for me. I know not to do this just saw this upsetting video. please retweet. Hashtag stop I need to fucking zaniolo for this hashtag stop.

Erica: 1:02:49

Potato porn.

Vanessa: 1:02:50

Yes. Think actually, this the funny thing is right before you said that my brain was the mashed potatoes. So stop mashed potatoes. Porn. Yeah.

Erica: 1:03:01

That probably is out there. FRANKEL I'm

Vanessa: 1:03:03

sure it's at rule 34 If you ever looked at rule 34 No, it's Do you know what it is? No,

Erica: 1:03:11

I have an idea what it might be. So I'm hilarious. If it exists, there's

Vanessa: 1:03:14

porn of it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's, there's a website behind. It's pretty much guaranteed way to ruin your childhood. Like anything you can think of like, it's most likely going to be evident there. Hi. Oh, yeah. So Miss Frizzle fucking Groucho Marx or something? Go on. It's gonna be

Erica: 1:03:36

Yeah, well, especially in this day and age of AI generated images, CBD. I

Vanessa: 1:03:41

don't even think about that. Yeah, like, back when I used to hop on there. In the horny days to be for estrogen days back when I actually got that. Like, it was just the amount of things you found, but it was all hand drawn art. So none of it was really fucking good too. Yeah. So and most of it was chicks with dicks. Almost. Always less. Tons of that. Yeah, yes. Exactly. So a lot of eggs out there. A lot of chicks out there.

Erica: 1:04:13

Yeah, it was the hate out there's people over identifying with that. And having some shame about it.

Vanessa: 1:04:20

That's, you know, an accusation is an omission.

Erica: 1:04:25

I really hope that when you guys I can join you next week because I'm going on vacation. But I really hope we're throwing this out there when you guys are talking about the state of affairs and voting you don't forget to mention Grindr at the RNC crashed.

Vanessa: 1:04:38

We really didn't know about this. Now

Erica: 1:04:41

during the Republican National Convention. A grinder at the side of the Convention had so much traffic. No one in the rest of the country could use it.

Vanessa: 1:04:51

You why eight analys you

Erica: 1:04:52

something about that? Oh, go look that up. Yeah. Holy, because that tells you a lot about what's going on dias. For those

Vanessa: 1:05:00

not in the know Grindr is to gay dating app. So

Erica: 1:05:06

all of your favorite people on the Republican side of the fence. We're busy using that app at the kitchen.

Vanessa: 1:05:11

IE, you see it under the damn time. So I did not know that. That's fascinating. Thank you for that. It's wild. Yeah, printers wild in general and Mikey best he tells me stories about I'm like this sounds exhausting

Erica: 1:05:26

same Yeah,

Vanessa: 1:05:26

no thanks ya know now I'm happy with where I am now. So Erica, do you have any closing thoughts?

Erica: 1:05:37

Write your books people skirt random practice, have fun with it, break it down to small bites have a good time. Also go read my book when it comes up maybe in December as soon as I have a data let you know. For more information on that go to my website Erica Vogel e r i c avogel.com. You build everything you need too much stuff. Probably too much, Erica.

Vanessa: 1:06:00

There's no such thing. So Well, I hope so. I just love your name. Anyways, Erica voltages flows while Yeah,

Erica: 1:06:07

I tell the story of how to put my name in the book. You will apply to cast? I did. Yeah. You'll find it in chapter two. I think that's

Vanessa: 1:06:16

a big part of trans experiences. You get to name yourself or not name yourself. It's up to you. Like there's it's perfectly valid to Ian Thomas Malone. And all the other trans people that didn't choose your names that are coming to my brain right now.

Erica: 1:06:29

Yeah. So what's hilarious about that, so I'm not going to tell it because you're gonna go read it soon. And for those of you out there listening, you're gonna you weren't gonna buy my book?

Vanessa: 1:06:38

Yes, you are.

Erica: 1:06:39

One of the things I did was ask my mom, cuz she told me. I don't know, 20 years ago, what my name would have been if I had, you know, been born female like I actually am. And I forgot what the name is. So in the process of like, figuring out the name that I wanted to go by, I was like, hey, what were you going to call me? The name she told me I was in no way prepared for. And I thought she was pulling my leg so I laughed in her face and really hurt her feelings because it's a wild name. You have to read the book to find out.

Vanessa: 1:07:13

Read the book. Find out when you

Erica: 1:07:15

when you read that Erica, I'm Eric. Vanessa. You're gonna text me and be like, holy shit.

Vanessa: 1:07:22

I'm excited. Yeah. Once I finally get she's fucking read. So. Okay. Erica, thank you for hopping on, and especially with our little restructuring here this week. So and what Eric was talking about next week, next week, my goal is to do a live episode next week is episode 50. I'm hoping to do it live. I tried doing it live on before it failed miserably, but no more I thought about it. My guest was in the mountains in Britain in British Columbia. So her connection probably wasn't the greatest. So I'm hoping to have some familiar faces. I think Chloe is coming. And where he and Landon Reid, and I think Nicky Smith is coming back and Zach. Oh, Zach. Yeah, Zach is gonna be there. So he's gonna be the the the old school THP person so that right? But yeah, we'll see what comes up and I hope it works. And we're just gonna be telling the politics so

Erica: 1:08:20

tell everybody be at home. You live there nice stable connections.

Vanessa: 1:08:24

That's what I told like, I'm like, you have to have headphones that are being wired. You need to have good internet and yeah, so. And of course when I have a power outage or something, probably no rush. I

Transcending Humanity: 1:08:34

hope not. Good. Right. Okay,

Vanessa: 1:08:37

thank you everyone for listening to transcending humanity. Thank you again, Erica, for joining me this week, and see you next time.

Erica: 1:08:46

See you guys later. Thanks for having me on Vanessa. Appreciate you