Season 2 Kickoff: Reflections, Predictions, and Why It Was Never Just About Parking

Season Two begins with a look back at the conversations that reshaped how we think about the curb — and a clear view of what comes next.

What started as a parking podcast quickly became something broader. Because the curb is where safety, mobility, access, technology, and public experience all meet — and where frontline teams do some of the most visible and complex work in our cities.

In this episode, Jade Neville and Matt Darst pull out the defining lessons from Season One and the ideas that will carry into Season Two.

Safety emerged as the through line. Not as a policy or a feature, but as the foundation for performance — shaping everything from deployment and training to technology, design, and public trust.

The conversation also challenged one of the industry’s most persistent myths: parking isn’t about ticketing. It’s about compliance, access, and outcomes for the people who use — and operate — the system every day.

Along the way, the episode touches on:

• data as a proactive safety tool
• the role of the built environment in harm reduction
• technology that balances capability with governance and privacy
• stakeholder engagement as a human process, not a checkbox
• what the U.S. and U.K. can learn from each other

The result is less a recap and more a reset — a shared starting point for the next phase of the show.

Season Two will focus on real programs, operational voices, measurable impact, and the practical decisions that move the industry forward.

Because the biggest takeaway from Season One was simple: the fastest route to better performance is better care.

Credits

Hosted and Produced by Jade Neville and Matt Darst.
 Producer: Chris O’Keeffe
 Editor: Patrick Emile
 Associate Producer: Cyndi Raskin
 Executive Producer: Julie Gates

Parking Live is brought to you by Modaxo — passionate about moving the world’s people.

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Modaxo Inc., its affiliates or subsidiaries, or any entities they represent (“Modaxo”). This production belongs to Modaxo, and may contain information that may be subject to trademark, copyright, or other intellectual property rights and restrictions. This production provides general information, and should not be relied on as legal advice or opinion. Modaxo specifically disclaims all warranties, express or implied, and will not be liable for any losses, claims, or damages arising from the use of this presentation, from any material contained in it, or from any action or decision taken in response to it.

Transcript

0:09

Hello and welcome back to Parking Live. I'm Jade Neville. And I'm at Darst. welcome to season two. today's gonna be a little different. We're going to be looking back at season one in this episode, picking out our favorite bits. Yeah, this is our highlight reel, if you will. What we learned, the moments that made U.S. go, oh, this is way bigger than what we thought. Yeah, and it never really just about parking, was it? No, You know, the curb, it's one of the most contested pieces of public infrastructure we have. It's where everything converges, often at the same time and with competing needs.. parking's literally part of everything. How cities function, how people feel about moving. Around how front line teams are treated, which is something we heard a lot about in season one, which I'm looking forward to digging back into, the technology trends and what they lead impact to, and honestly how safe people are as well. Yeah, and that's really, I think, A good way of summarizing the season, right? We talked a lot about what happens when the curb is misused or over occupied, and the congestion, that flows from that, and how that fundamentally changes how our streets operate. it's really when traffic's unpredictable, that you have drivers taking more risks. You've got delivery vehicles, double parking, buses, become less reliable, and then. If you're a bike rider, you're disincentivized, by all this increased risk and poorly managed parking really makes our streets more dangerous, especially to those people who are what we call vulnerable road users. The, the people who are walking and biking. Yeah, and we, we thought we were making a parking podcast, but actually I think we, we accidentally made a Safety and Systems podcast. Yeah, which, makes sense because when we fail the curb, the curb fails our objectives, and those typically are safety, mobility, and access. Yeah. So today we're gonna do a reflections, review, right? So what were our biggest takeaways? A couple of the, the myth busting moments and do a little future gazing as well in there. because we can't help ourselves. Right. Let's get into it. Okay. Right. So Matt, I would love to hear what you think of season one, but in three words. I would say listen, humanize, and then optimize, and really in that order. Oh, alright. That's strong. How am I gonna follow that? Um, okay. Mine are safety systems and reality check. Ah, yeah. Great summary of season one. think like most practical takeaway, uh, is going to be a powerful point of this discussion. we learned so much during season one. What's the thing you'd actually put into practice tomorrow? For me, designing safety into the operation and not hoping people just handle it. it's really ensuring that the tools and the training and support are built into how you operate. Yeah. I, I completely agree. And that takes U.S. really nicely into our first clip, from Chuck Bellows, Charles, Chuck Bellows, one of my, probably be one of my favorite. Actually, this is from our conversation with Chicago, about their safety systems. and chuck, you, you've invested in tools like panic buttons and vehicle cameras and instant heat maps. Can you, can you walk us. through how Chicago designed a safety system that's both responsive and preventative? I. Yeah, so we integrated a panic button. So if there is an incident where they can't get to the radio to call for help. They can trigger a, like a little lapel button, , that remotely, , sends an alarm to our 9 1 1 center and they are notified that the, the boot officer is in need of, uh, assistance. So it works really well. It also shows the surveillance cameras that are mounted on the vehicles so they can see what's, what's going on and decide whether they just need police or they need medical attention also. well, I remember hearing that and thinking two thoughts. the first safety isn't just a goal alongside op optimization. It's actually a prerequisite for it. You can't optimize deployment, productivity and coverage if you don't. Really address keeping people outta harm's way. And, uh, I guess that brings me to the second item. what really stands out to me listening to Chuck talk about Chicago is that they don't treat safety as a single tool or policy change. They've, they've got a toolkit. it's a system, one that involves technology and data and procedures and, and real time decision making. Yeah. and look, what I love about this clip is how unapologetically practical it is. it's not be careful out there, it's, we've built safety systems around you. and that shift really matters because the safety can't rely on lot. Or personality you know, if we want people to do high conflict, high visibility work, the least that we can do is make sure that those tools are already in place, quietly working in the background to support them and staying with that. One of my favorite bits across the season is how often data come up as a safety tool, not just a performance tool. right. where are incidents happening? What. Patterns are emerging. what should deployment look like? Exactly, and, and here's a clip on how using crime and incident data to inform deployment, can really support that. Our heat maps are to help to, uh, promptly adjust enforcement to high risk zones, so identify as an area that has, uh, previous high crime. So we want to be aware of that before we're starting to enforce in that area. So all those tools will work together to both, uh, document and deescalate situ. You know, and while you're talking about maps, you, you mentioned earlier your use of crime data to map incidents to inform. How and where officers are scheduled. can you give me an example of how deployment has shifted in response to those risks? Yeah, so we use the crime to overlay with our enforcement zones to inform for scheduling. So those officers are paired up in certain areas and are also, uh, assigned vehicles so they can kind of go in the area, enforce what needs to be enforced, and then move on to the next area. the data helps us. reduce our exp exposure to known problems and zones during vulnerable hours. Sometimes at nighttime, specific areas are only, you know, high crime areas. So, we make adjustments also to respond to new threats like protests or hostile, repeat encounters. that's one of those, uh, no duh things as we say here in the U.S. Jade, uh, it, it sounds obvious until you realize how rarely it's done properly. Yeah. And this is one of those moments where you realize parking is actually doing what every other public facing service should do, using data to reduce risk before it becomes an incident. And it also gives teams confidence. You're not guessing. You're deploying with intent. And for me, that makes a difference between a reactive enforcement and managed operations. Absolutely. So, if I were to ask you what the biggest myth that was busted this season was, what would your answer be? I mean, it's easy coming from the background that we do, and I mean, this was an easy one for me, but for listeners, I would say the parking enforcement is just ticketing. That's a myth. And we've busted that. It's so much, so much more than just ticketing. Yep. Yep. and that, that really leads U.S. straight into that line. The goal is compliance, not enforcement. Yeah. There's a major theme with Nick Nicholas, the culture. Expectations piece. I set up a Google alert for parking enforcement and I found something that was really shocking and disturbing, and that's just about every week I get a headline in my email that says a frontline parking enforcement person is being assaulted, berated, spit at, guns, pulled on them, beat up, or even killed just in the performance of their duties. So I started going to a bunch of different parking conferences all over the country and asking operators and parking managers and frontline supervisors, what are we as a parking industry doing to help keep our frontline personnel safe? And by and large, I just got kind of shrugged shoulders, or it's all on-the-job training and we teach a little bit of deescalation, but that was about it. And to me that is very alarming because I come fromthe policing world, right? Where there's certain things that I consider day one, basic officer safety, you know, very introductory police academy stuff like deescalation and situational awareness that is never being taught to our frontline parking enforcement personnel. And it seems almost universal. No matter what agency I talk to across the country, we're just doing a terrible job of training our frontline personnel. So I see a lot of similarities between policing and the parking industry, namely that our frontline parking personnel are involved in very high conflict, high visibility roles, yet we're doing a poor job of equipping them with the skills and ability to keep themselves safe. So, you recognize. This systemic blind spot that Captain Nicholas discussed. Everything really changes. I mean, training changes, your messaging changes even I think how the public perceives you, gets modified. Yeah, and, and I think it also stops U.S. accidentally normal. Conflict as part of the job, which I think is such an important thing to highlight. Okay. Let's change the pace a little bit. let's shift to most talked about subject this season. What would you say it is? Well, intentionally, safety, frontline safety, and, honestly, the stuff you pulled from those alerts was, pretty heavy. Yeah. I'll say it plainly. Um, I set up alerts so, I could see what was going on in the parking industry and particularly when it come to, to frontline safety. One because it's something I'm very passionate about. And two, the conversation is extremely important and something we focused on in season one. And it felt like every week there was a headline about someone being assaulted, threatened, spat at, and worse just. You know, just by doing their job, uh, and just for the sake of doing their job. Yeah, and I, I track these types of alerts too, and I, I think it's something we both do because it's something we both witnessed earlier in our. Rears. there's one image that is seared in my brain and that is, being in the hospital and, being with one of my team when they were being prepped for surgery after being shot. And the point here isn't to make listeners feel grim. It's really to make the industry stop accepting this kind of violence that, happens to, to our frontline staff. Exactly, and here's the clip where that hits home during our conversation. So there was a situation recently where one of our community services officers was monitoring one of our beach parking lots and noticed a suspicious person loitering around one of the pay stations. So again, because I've tried really hard to empower them and explain to them that they're the eyes and ears of their community, they were able to recognize that this person's behavior was a little suspicious. So they radioed that out and our police officers responded and we contacted the individual and we discovered that he had multiple warrants and was in a stolen vehicle. So I am terrified to think of what would've happened if that parking enforcement officer just happened to go up to the car or put a ticket on the windshield, or even worse, began to tow the car when they didn't know it was stolen, or there was a legitimate criminal that was associated with it. So I'm so proud of the fact that my team was able to recognize that, respond accordingly, and that nobody got hurt. that's the moment where you go, okay. Safety needs to be more than just a paragraph in a policy manual. Yeah, absolutely. It has to be the foundation. I think that kind of leads U.S. on really well to like the next segment of our kind of look back at season one, and that's empowering frontline personnel and it's such an important, um, thread that I, I think really was evident through these conversations. there was another clear takeaway. I mean, we often ask people to do high conflict, high visibility work without equipping them properly in some cases. Yeah, absolutely. Um, training, deescalation, support the right tools and, and ultimately leadership that treats safety as performance critical. And this come up powerfully with the parallels to policing. Um, not in a dramatic way, but in a, these are predictable conflict patterns way. and this clip is such a reality. E check. Um, and I mentioned this before, we ask frontline teams to manage conflict, public scrutiny, stress, and sometimes even real danger, as you mentioned with your colleague, just then that, and we should not be surprised when it takes its toll on our frontline teams. And the point isn't to dramatize parking, it's to be honest about the environment. We're putting people into proper training, deescalation and support and leadership backing aren't nice to haves their basics, which is highlighted quite well in this next clip. You know, I always say that our frontline folks are really, truly ambassadors for the organizations that they work for. I argue that the frontline parking enforcement people have more contact with any member of the public than anyone else in the cities or universities that they work for. Certainly more than the police officers. We're lazy. We don't like to get out of our cars yet the frontline parking enforcement personnel, they're the people who are walking our busy downtown areas and they're tour guides, they're answering questions, they're giving restaurant recommendations. And really, truly the eyes and ears of our communities. and that's where season one matured. I think it stopped being about, oh, this is best practice and became more about the duty of care. And, as I listened to this clip, it. Reminds me of a, a book. It's, uh, Malcolm Gladwell's, the Tipping Point, and in it he talked about how violence against police officers. Specifically isn't random. It's really clustered around moments where procedures break down or don't exist, and that's really been brought to the forefront here. clear procedures, how to approach someone, when to disengage, when to call for help. They don't make people nicer, but they sure reduce ambiguity and improve safety. I'm gonna add that to my reading list. Thanks, Matt. sounds like a great book. Another one of the moments that really kind of widened the lens for me was our conversation around the built environment, with Russell Simmons. Yeah, this is a, a good one. Uh, it got me out of my comfort zone because we're, we're no longer talking about the curb, right? We're talking garages, structures, design choices, and prevention. Yeah, absolutely. Or car parks as we were saying in the uk And that's another thing that we could discuss during this episode IH vma is that UK U.S. language kind of conversion that we need to do. There's some, there's some differences here for sure. Absolute. Um, and suicide prevention is, which is not what people expect when they think about parking. Infrastructure is such an important topic to highlight, which Russell done brilliantly. plus the link to the British Parking Association work in that space is a really good platform. to move on to this next clip, Russell, we touched on, you touched on suicide prevention there, so if I could go into a little bit more about that subject and you also chair, the suicide prevention group within the BPA, and that's not something that many people associate with parking infrastructure. Can you share a bit about the role design plays in harm prevention? I really like the opportunity to talk about this, so thanks very much for enabling me to do so, and I talk about it as often as I can. As I said earlier, the car parks can be associated with facilitating people wanting to hurt themselves, and it's just when it's your building type and it's your specialism. As with colleagues who specialize in rail, for example as well, I know that there's a lot of really good people doing amazing work there. When your building type, your specialism is associated, potentially associated with a negative, then you know, the natural urge is, I think to mitigate that and to improve it. We get quite close to operators, people who operate car parks. They're often our clients and or certainly people that we work, you know, they're certainly stakeholders in what we do as people who are employed to improve park car parks or design them from new, and when they are facing operational challenges or they are facing operational situations where they become aware that people are there trying to hurt themselves, then of course, it enters our radar as built environment people. So we then start looking at, well, how can we mitigate that? And the working group that I'm, that I do chair on this subject, it's gone way beyond certainly just built environment in terms of physical barriers, for example, fencing and all the rest of it. We then start to look at operational measures that you can take to mitigate. And it's opened up, it's opened my eyes up to a whole, you know, a whole sort of array of things that you can do to mitigate that risk and to help people out when they really need it. And what's become clear to me is a little bit of intervention, a little bit of, the introduction of some space and time for people to slightly consider whether or not they really need to go to that extent of trying to hurt themselves. Can be enough to prevent that from happening and then enable that person to get proper help and then they go on and live, you know, very fulfilling lives for them and those around them. So it's incredible when you think about it, that putting a fence up or putting a camera up or having a member of staff on site or some lighting or some planting or, you know, landscaping could actually save somebody's life and, you know, the impact that, and save the impact, the negative impact that that one incident might have to hundreds of people as well. That conversation stays with you. And I think what Russell is really getting at is harm doesn't just happen because of individual crisis. It happens where environments enable it. And what strikes me most is. Russell's point that you don't need dramatic interventions. You really just need nudges. you introduce space like a barrier or a sight line, or you introduce time, some type of delay or friction, being like some type of human interaction. You introduce that into the system and you've really improved prevention. And this is, this is the one that, tends to stop people in their tracks because most of U.S. don't associate parking with suicide prevention. but it's exactly why it matters. I mean, car parks are part of that built environment. The built environment can either increase risk or reduce it. and I'm proud, I'm proud of the work that the British Parks Association is doing to, to improve this and the conversations that Russell is having, with his team in the working group because it's uncomfortable, but it's, it's certainly necessary. Yeah. And, when you talk about the differences between the U.S. and uk, this is one that really struck me and. Talk more about that as well. But, the approaches are different and I've really learned something from, from Russell's experience here. we also talk tech, and not necessarily in a shiny new object way. Oh, thank goodness. one of my favorite tech, threads was the balance. Like AI can do amazing things, but it has to respect privacy and build trust. Yeah, that came through with, uh, Jonathan Marshall and March Networks. What's possible, and clearly where we need governance is a guardrail. Just building on that a little bit, Jon, where do you, or what do you see some of the new ways that this technology can help car parks over the next year or two? Are we looking at safety measures? Are we looking at occupancy monitoring? What, how can it impact car parks? It's all of those and some more. So if we take the safety aspect first. Then clearly, you know, having high quality images. So as we move through the landscape of security, every iteration of cameras delivers a much better image quality, better light conditions, and allows you to see a lot more detail than traditional cameras would generally deliver to you. So from a safety perspective, we're able to have, again, that extra set of eyes around the building, around the environment. We're seeing a lot more out there than we did with traditional cameras. Building on top of that, we can also extract metadata now. So within the background, we can start to pull metadata. And when I talk about metadata, I talk about things like, what's the color of your top, what's the color of your bottoms? Do you have a hat or a backpack on, you know, and we can even do gender and age as part of that. So the camera is doing a lot more than just projecting an image. It's collecting data about that environment. And why is that important? Well, that's important for a situation where you are trying to forensically analyze or find something that's happened. You know, somebody's had their bags stole in their car park. What's the first thing they remember? Well, it was a male with a red jacket on. So we can go and search for that much more quickly than just trying to find, scroll backwards and forwards, to extract that. So it gives us another level of information there. From a safety perspective, it allows us to monitor areas, which may be, you know, things like stairwells are traditionally the places people hang out. But I have had use cases where people want to monitor high buildings, so lots of car parks, top floors, whatever, are people just hanging around places that, you know, contemplating the unthinkable. So, you know, with some of the algorithms that detect whether people are loitering around there, we can get an alert a lot quicker than just noticing somebody on a camera. Jon, I, one thing we talk about with data all the time, right, is the need to respect privacy. And you mentioned loitering kind of as a potential case study, right? And, how do you determine what's innocent loitering versus what loitering might have more malicious intent and then segregate those to ensure that we are respecting the individual's privacy at the end of the day. And that is a great question and that's probably much more challenging to answer than understanding the technology. So we have an algorithm that detects people just sort of hanging around in a space, you know, is a person in the space for this, but it's more about behavior. And, we developed this algorithm, loitering algorithm very specifically for bank ATM lobbies. So, particularly in our U.S. market and our Canadian market, it gets very cold. So if you have any vagrancy or homelessness, they have a tendency go and find a nice ATM lobby. It may not be warm, but it's actually outside of the wind, and they'll tailgate people into that. And then the behavior becomes very different to a loiter. So it's somebody's there. Now, if you go back to what we talked about with lots of pixels moving around to detect motion, somebody goes to sleep in an ATM lobby, there's no motion there. However, our loitering algorithm, very much tracks says that's a person I know that's a person there, that person hasn't moved. But I still know that it's a person there. And after a preset amount of time, we'll get an alert out that says there is a person there. And that's was developed as I say, for ATM, but you know, it's a great algorithm for stairwells, for example, for all those corners. Every car park's got lots of little corners. That, you know, might look great on a rainy night. You could also apply it to slip and fall, for example. Has somebody entered an area? Have they had a slip and a fall? Are they unconscious on the floor? If we talk about governance, then governance is incredibly important when you're talking about personal data, the security of that data. So what we've done is we have the technology to solve many of these problems, but I've created a five step governance plan, which helps organizations understand both the implications, the benefits, and the risks of the governance surrounding the use of AI within any business, any responsible business. that's really the question for season two, isn't it? What's, the difference between technology as surveillance and technology as a presence that makes U.S. So wear sooner and less reactive. Another reoccurring theme from season one for me was stakeholders. I mean, really key stakeholder engagement. And it's not just stakeholders as a, corporate word, it's actual humans. Yeah, public sentiment, elected officials, community groups, customer service teams, enforcement teams, operational teams. everyone touches the parking system. and to line up this next clip for me, it's who are we really talking about when we say stakeholders? So when we're talking about stakeholders, who are we really talking about? Because the curb seems to touch almost everyone from drivers to delivery companies, to small businesses and business owners and even scooter operators. And I mean, there's a lot of people involved. You know, Jade, I'm so glad you asked that question because if there's one thing that people are passionate about, it's parking. We all feel like we own parking. And in fact, I like to acknowledge that everyone's a parking expert. If you drive a car, if you drive a vehicle, you're an expert. The fact that we all had to learn how to drive a car and how to parallel park, you name it, right? You know, those pitchforks and uh, burning torches, you know, they're coming to storm the castle, right? Because the reality is everyone can relate to the curb because we've all been utilizing it for our entire lives. And so when I started to acknowledge the fact that everybody's an expert, it really changed the discourse. It changed the conversation. When people show up with those pitchforks and torches, it's because it matters to them. So I was inspired by Julia's idea that parking is different than other public systems. Because everyone feels like and is actually and can claim to be an expert because we all use it in a way that we don't really use other modes of transportation. We're not driving trains. We're not driving airplanes, right. Or buses. But we drive our cars, and that's why parking conversations get emotional so fast. You're not asking people to comment. On something abstract. this is something they live, you're touching daily habits and routines and frustrations, that they experience often for years. Yeah, and clip is a, real reminder that stakeholders aren't a tick box. They're real people living with outcomes of our decisions, residents, visitors, business owners, frontline staff, customer services, elected members, even the whole ecosystem. If we get engagement wrong, then the policy fouls. If we get the engagement right, parking stops feeling like something that's done to people and it becomes something that's designed with them. and one of the reality checks for me is you, can't predict the future. and often, of course, the chaos factor is part of that, the stuff you can't predict. Yeah, I mean we're both, former government. chaos is, the name of the game. It, it's really everything. Oh, absolutely, and, here is the clip that I'm referring to. This is the reality check clip. And the reality of this is we cannot predict the future. We can try, we definitely can. And utilizing data to do our forecasting and you know, when we get it right, you know, you're like, yes, the formula, the algorithm, everything worked. But again, human beings are involved. You know, World Series are won and parades happen suddenly out of nowhere, and the reality of this is it completely throws a monkey wrench into the works, right? This is something that when we talk about the unexpected, that's the reality of our jobs. When we talk about how the curb is managed, or people that go out and put up their own signs or paint their own curbs. Or suddenly, Uber exists. Who as a child was told, don't get into stranger's cars. Right. And now we're summoning them with these strange devices that I never had when I was a child and getting in these stranger's cars. The reality is, innovation is happening in our world. We all see it every day. So how do we get this printed on every project plan? engagement isn't about getting buy-in. Necessarily for a fixed plan, I, I do believe you can nudge people, to think, differently using data. But at end of the day, it's really about building a shared understanding and a world that's constantly shifting. Yeah, I, I completely agree. the last few years has proven that operational resilience isn't optional. so for me, the takeaway is that programs need to be built that can flex. don't just optimize for a normal day or normal day operations because weird days are coming and they're the ones that are gonna test your service the most. And one of my favorite, strategies actually for coping with these weird days and really teasing out kind of how we can build policies and how we can build programs that adjust and flex to those weird days. It was an introduction of one of my favorite tools from season one. What do you think it was? I, I think I do. And I wish we could insert some, uh, light chimes, um, like a, a twinkling noise as I say the term, the parking magic wand. Ah, look there. It's, Uh, it exists. It's real magic's, real jade. I am a believer. I'm a believer. I would love a parking magic wand. And if you hadn't heard the episode where this came about, then listen to this clip. We do an exercise for every meeting I go to, I bring a parking magic wand. I know you can't see it, but it's here in my hand. And we pass the wand around and we ask people if you could change, fix, or improve anything about parking, parking management, whatever the project is, what would you use it for? And I have found that this has been a really effective tool. I encourage you all to use it because it's magic. People feel comfortable saying whatever it is that they're gonna say and then they go to town, right? And the fact is, I've gone to meetings throughout projects where people said, Hey, can I have the magic wand back? Because it's like the safety net that they have. what I love about the magic wand exercise is it creates psychological safety. It, it tells people this is a space where your experience matters, even if it doesn't. Fit neatly into our predefined agenda. it really turns meetings from being a presentation or a tutorial into a conversation, and I think engagement really changes everything. Yeah, absolutely. And I wish, this was a two-way conversation.'cause I would say to our listeners, here's the magic wand question for you. You've got the magic wand in your hand. If you could change one thing about your parking operation tomorrow, no procurement pain, no politics, what would it be? Yeah, love to answer that question. Oh, okay. Right. Quick pivot. Quick pivot. We mentioned UK versus U.S. Let's, let's get into that. Yeah. And I, I think, before we jump into the serious stuff, should we just tackle the, curb, CURB versus curb, KERB, debate. Yeah, it. One of them is, you're right. Um, in the interest of detente, I am going to put forth the theory that we, both nations can make an argument for naming rights because there really are two origin stories, right? In the uk, the curb emerged KERB, first to manage water and to protect pedestrians and organize street space long before cars existed and in those functions still exist. In the U.S. though, we adopted cars much earlier and at a much larger scale than the uk So we defined the curb, CURB. a little differently around the automobile and it became a tool for parking and loading. So there really is, a bit of ownership across our cultures. Yeah, absolutely. And what I heard there with you saying Curb in the UK was the. Original curb, but Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. You you did, you did. And, and then we, we made it better. Yes. I know that, you know, uh, I don't wanna get too buried into the weeds with like the legalities here, but the situations are a little different from like the legal frameworks, the public expectations and the scale. but the human part of it is definitely universal. Um, that's something definitely they shared, between both culture. Yeah. And I, I think you, you see that in how we borrow from each other. so what's the U.S. borrowed from the uk or could borrow more of? I'd say the structured operational standards and consistency, there's, there's a stronger narrative about why parking exists and, and not just about what it does. and we've got like a blanket approach to each element of our country as well. So that consistency carries through no matter where you go. and from the uk borrowing from the U.S. The willingness to trial tools quickly, and I, I wholeheartedly get behind this. Um, I think we need to start adapting and building together with confidence and have the confidence to talk about our outcomes in a way, that the public can understand as well. Which I think brings U.S. neatly to, park Indy. And I'd like to dig into this a bit, if that's okay. Yeah, a standout data story episode. Um, they talked about measurable reduction in negative interactions and the operational choices behind it. Yeah. And, part of that has been the we are park indie campaign and that's a campaign that was created to humanize enforcement, to reduce hostile and, sometimes violent interactions between the public and parking enforcement staff. And look, Picasso was attributed by saying, good artist copy, great artist still. Right. uh, and when he said still he didn't mean plagiarized, it means recognize a good idea, right? Understanding why it works and then making it your own in a new context. Yeah. And that, where we need to give credit where it's due because we are, park Indy was very much inspired directly by the beyond the badge work coming outta the uk. like the teams in the UK Park, Indy was really. Trying to tell the stories of parking compliance officers and meter mechanics so that they're not defined by their uniforms. And they created a series of blogs, a window shop display, visuals for social media, and even posted one-on-one interviews with their team members. One of the coolest things they did was put images and stories about the park. Team on the payment kiosks. So when you go and make your, payment at a, metered space, you actually are presented with one of the stories from one of the, the team members. and that's, it's really cool. Uh. Anecdotally we're hearing it's been very successful. The staff is certainly, pleased by it. And, they're studying the data now to measure the impact, which is the metapoint, right? Safety improves when you treat it like a system, when you can design and measure. Exactly, and I joke about a good, you know, a good artist stealing. But this is what bridge U.S. between the UK and the U.S. for this season. I, I really feel, take what works, make it local and don't pretend culture doesn't matter. Exactly. So, future gazing time, let's talk about predictions for the industry. Okay. there's two big buckets for me. There's tech maturity and human outcomes. So if we're looking at AI analytics and automation, they're gonna keep accelerating. but we need to build trust, privacy and workforce wellbeing, into that, to decide whether it actually lands and works. Yeah, and we, we may have talked drones this season as well. Oh, yes, we did talk drones. Yeah. And aerial analytics, especially for operations and compliance patterns. And, and that's a, a great time to shout out Parker Lytics and Peter Richards for making that feel practical and not like a sci-fi. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, uh, speaking of sci-fi, I have a wild future prediction. you're a fan of that show, the Last of U.S. Am I right? Oh yes. Yeah. Okay. This would be good. Yep. Okay. Okay. Here's my wild idea for the future. Mushroom based Curb occupancy sensing. So hear me out here. you know, just like on that show, we know that mycelium networks. Transmit these electrical impulses, when they're compressed or disturbed, and researchers are already using them as biosensors. So imagine a protective trough along the curb that's filled with engineered fungal substrate. So a car parks, there's a weight or vibration, maybe even a shadow, and that triggers. An electrical impulse or pattern, right? And if they're tiny electrodes picking that up, suddenly you've got realtime occupancy sensing without cameras or hardware. I love how your mind works. I, I genuinely do. I was sitting here with my mouth, my hand over my mouth, trying not to giggle too much through the mic. But I mean, even if mushrooms never run curb management, it does push the question what other low impact biodegradable self-healing systems can become sensors. And if we can grow building materials out of my not curb. Yeah. Yeah. thank you for accommodating me there. Okay, turning back to the serious, what, more do we see for the show? more real world programs, more what actually worked. more voices from the field, operations, customer service enforcement, tech, and more honest conversations about safety. I don't think we're done with that one yet. Right, right. final question for you, Jade. What did Season one change your mind about? The fastest route to better performance is often better care. better tools, better training, better support. And safety isn't a side. Quest is a must. that's the line. Can we, can we underscore that a couple times? If you've listened to season one, thank you very much from Matt and I heartfelt. Thank you. Um, it was a joy to record and I think we both actually enjoyed it far more than we expected we would, which was actually going to be quite a lot. To be fair. if you're new. Go back and pick up an episode that matches your world, whether that be enforcement, operations, tech, or infrastructure. We've covered it all. and we want one more thing from you too, if that's possible. More than your time. can you send U.S. a story, a moment where you parked and it went right, or really horribly wrong. and then. One question you'd like U.S. to tackle during season two. Because ultimately we're this with you, for people doing the work. That's right. We're all parking experts as, uh, as we learned last year. So, we'll see you in season two. See you on the other side. Thank you for listening. I'm Julie Gates, executive Producer of Parking Live. This episode was created by hosts and producers, Jade Neville and Matt Darst, producer Chris O'Keefe. Editor Patrick Emil and associate producer Cindy Raskin. Parking Live is brought to you by Modaxo. Passionate about moving the world's people. You can follow U.S. on LinkedIn. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and visit U.S. online@parkinglive.com. Thanks for joining U.S. at Parking Live, where the curb meets the conversation.