Life After Coming Out at 60: Matt Starts Over (Part 2) | Ep 22

Life After Coming Out at 60: Matt Starts Over (Part 2) – At 60, Matt’s life took a dramatic turn when he was outed, abruptly ending a 35-year marriage. In Part 2 of his story, Matt opens up about starting over as an openly gay man in Dallas – from finding love and community to rebuilding family relationships. This heartfelt conversation explores the challenges of dating later in life, learning self-acceptance, and the power of an affirming LGBTQ community.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

• Embracing your true identity after decades of secrecy
• Building a support network and community from scratch in a new city
• Navigating first dates, new friendships, and unexpected feelings of guilt at 60
• How chosen family and therapy helped Matt heal and find joy again

Why it matters: Not everyone gets to choose how – or when – they come out. Matt’s journey shows that it’s never too late to live authentically and find the community that will lift you up.

If you enjoy this episode, follow @CoffeewithGays for more true stories every Thursday. And if you missed Part 1 of Matt’s story, be sure to check out the previous episode! Feel free to share this story with a friend or leave us a rating/review to let us know what you think.

⏱️ Chapters
00:00 — Introduction & New Beginnings
02:50 — Life After Coming Out
05:31 — Finding an LGBTQ Community from Scratch
07:53 — Navigating Happiness and Guilt
10:36 — The Freedom of Being Out
13:17 — Relationships, Dating & Acceptance
16:24 — Ongoing Self-Discovery
19:05 — Observations on Community & Culture
28:26 — Starting Over Later in Life
30:57 — Exploring Sexuality & New Connections
36:18 — Building Friendships & Support Systems
39:28 — Belonging in a Traditionally Conservative Environment
45:04 — Sharing Stories & Personal Growth

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Matt's Story Part 2
• 5:38 The Aftermath of Being Outed
• 11:12 Mourning the End of a Marriage
• 18:50 Finding Community in Dallas
• 24:42 From Secret Bar Visits to Belonging
• 32:59 Gay Dating and Setting Boundaries
• 43:15 Building New Friendships and Support
• 49:52 Closing Thoughts and Resources

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

Hey y'all, it's Blaine. Welcome to Coffee with Gaze. And this is part two of Matt's story. We actually recorded this episode over a year ago, right before Pride of 2024. And, for a multitude of reasons, we couldn't release it then Timing, life, emotions, you name it. We had it, but now we're finally ready, and we're so proud to bring this episode to you. If you missed last week's episode're so proud to bring this episode to you. If you missed last week's episode, I encourage you to go back and watch part one of Matt's story.

Speaker 1: 0:36

He was outed by one of the most devastating ways possible A man stole his phone, extorted his family, and, after that, 35 years of marriage came crumbling down. This episode, though, is what came after. It's not about the coming out. It's about the rebuilding, the reclaiming and the belonging, and this story really even hit me harder now, because I just came back from a trip from Spain, where I met a man who is from the so-called new Middle East. You know, he's wealthy, professional, privileged, in his late 30s, and he's moving to Europe. And you say why? Well, because his home country people were asking why he's moving to Europe. And you say why? Well, because in his home country, people were asking why he's not married in his late 30s. You know, there the question isn't just social pressure, it's a threat. You can lose your job, your safety, your future, even when you're privileged. And that's still the reality in the majority of the world. Meanwhile, in the US, we forget how recent our progress really is. Matt didn't grow up in 2025. He grew up in a world where coming out could cost you everything. Some of y'all haven't even seen Philadelphia where Tom Hanks plays a gay lawyer you know, dying of AIDS, Hired by his firm, rejected by his friends and co-workers and left to die alone. That was only in 1993. It is not ancient history. So, no, we don't get to judge people who didn't come out sooner and we sure as hell don't get to take our freedoms now for granted.

Speaker 1: 1:54

There's a moment in this episode I'll never forget. Matt told me he used to go to gay bars and he'd order his gay drink a Bacardi and Coke and he would watch people laughing and being themselves and talking and realized that this was a community of people and he was kind of jealous and he wanted to be a part of that. And then we were standing at one of our gay bars here in Dallas Roundup. And he looked over to me and said, wow, I'm finally a part of this community and I'm so happy to be here Such a pivotal moment. I was so happy to be there for that, for him. And that's what this story is all about Finding your people, living your truth, no matter how long it takes. So, wherever you are, whoever you are, you get one life to live it. I hope Matt's story hits you the same way it hit us. So follow Coffee with Gaze for more stories that stay with you and happy pride. So enjoy part two of matt's story welcome to coffee with jay welcome to coffee with gays.

Speaker 1: 2:57

I'm blade, I'm ryan, I'm adam and we are here with our special guest, matt yay, yay, welcome Matt, welcome back.

Speaker 1: 3:07

It is part two of your segment, because we wanted to split this into two segments, and this is about your new beginning and embracing the community after decades of secrecy, really. So we're really happy that you're here and, wow, that last I just outed my age, sorry. Sorry, but you're outing so good, but you look so good. Come on, matt, you look amazing. We really super appreciate the story and that was so heavy. And thank you for coming back for this new segment, because I think one of the interesting things to us was, when we were talking about this is, yes, there was a lot of heaviness and a lot of things that you had to deal with, but then there's also been a lot of revelations and, I think, a lot of happiness and joy that people can actually look forward to when coming out and making a decision like this. So we kind of wanted to, you know, talk about that too.

Speaker 3: 4:00

I think it's really really important to talk about, like the life after. So after you were ripped out of the closet and after everything was thrown out on the table and literally butcher shops and thrown back into your life, you know where do you stand now.

Speaker 4: 4:14

I mean, it's six weeks in a treatment, but it's. It's still very new, so it's a big journey ahead of me, but I can. I can tell you what it's been since I've Acknowledged my gayness and to recap for everybody, that was september 1st of last year.

Speaker 1: 4:33

We're now in may, so it's only been like what I got out of seven months treatment mid-october, and it wasn't until somewhere around December, january, where I said yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 4:49

And I ask what were the holidays like for you this time, ah?

Speaker 4: 4:54

you know what? I don't even remember them. Well, like honestly.

Speaker 3: 4:59

Did you spend them with your kids?

Speaker 4: 5:00

I don't remember. I know one of them or maybe both of them. They went back to new jersey to be with my wife. So I remember thanksgiving I was feeling a little lonely, honestly I don't like. And christmas, yeah, I think we had people around. Um, I was in phoenix and christ Christmas I was with my at least one of my kids here in Phoenix.

Speaker 3: 5:29

Okay, so do you currently live in Dallas right now? Yes, okay, when did you move?

Speaker 4: 5:36

Early March.

Speaker 3: 5:37

Okay, nice.

Speaker 1: 5:39

Well, and what made you decide to do that?

Speaker 4: 5:42

Again, it wasn't my decision. And what made you decide to do that? Again, it wasn't my decision.

Speaker 2: 5:48

Um, my previous boss, after he was so gracious and so generous with me being away knew that I was now single and he felt it was important for me to be in Dallas in the office had that not happened, like where do you think you'd live or where do you choose?

Speaker 4: 6:12

So I actually, when I got out of treatment, my wife had. While I was in treatment my wife had said by the way, your stuff is with my daughter.

Speaker 3: 6:21

So she packed your stuff and moved it out.

Speaker 4: 6:23

She packed my stuff, moved it out, daughter. So she packed your stuff and moved it out. She packed my stuff, moved it out when I got out of treatment. I have a place in Phoenix, but I rent that out for income. So I got an apartment. I signed a lease in Phoenix, Maybe like January 1st. I was there two months. My boss asked me to move, so the company had to buy out my lease. I was a couple miles up the road from my two daughters and my grandson, which was just ideal, but again in hindsight I think they needed their space and I needed my space. So I didn't want to move to Dallas, but I think it was best thing for everyone.

Speaker 1: 7:02

What's your thought so far, by the way, of the Dallas gay community, because I think it's one of the best gay communities in our country. That's my thought.

Speaker 4: 7:08

So I don't have a lifelong history of knowing gay communities, but I did make an effort in Phoenix and I started to make an effort. I wasn't there very long but I looked for stuff. I found one gay hiking club and I did that once. It was good. That's a whole story there also.

Speaker 2: 7:29

Another fun story in the woods.

Speaker 1: 7:33

No no.

Speaker 4: 7:34

Very clean. But so I didn't really feel a community there, and maybe it's because I was spending my time with my family and I was still going to 12 step treatments where you know I can't do this, this or that, like drink or vape, or like I was still in the I'm a sex addict mode. So the Dallas gay community has just been phenomenal. I really feel like a part of a community here.

Speaker 2: 8:03

Yeah, I want, I want to know, just in your story I'm hearing a lot of choices or things happening that weren't your choice, from being ripped out to choosing to even be in Dallas what are you intending on doing now that Matt is going to decide? I'm going to do this for me now. Is there any of that, Ryan?

Speaker 4: 8:25

holy shit, you sound like my therapist my god could like be your next classes. You go to add it to my seven real job because I mean that brought me back to therapy where they were like, um, my wants and needs matter, and my wants and needs never mattered before, except for this entitlement thing on the side. Everything else was always for other people. So, yeah, that's a really good question and I'm still learning that Absolutely. I'm saying to my kids like you know what I need to do this for me. Now it's my turn.

Speaker 2: 9:05

Right and you're exploring that for yourself. But I think on our last episode we talked about mourning the end of that life that you had before, and is there a sense everyone's kind of going through some of that pain? Do you feel, while you're making those decisions decisions looking for your own happiness do you feel still a sense of um responsibility or or any of that pain, or how is everyone processing?

Speaker 4: 9:35

and it's, it's funny. I mean, look, I and there's gonna be waves coming, um, and I feel like I'm right now getting into a wave of okay, look I, look, I've announced that I'm gay. I've told everybody I can tell whether they want to hear it or not that I'm gay and it feels phenomenal to say that. And gee, I'm meeting great people, you know, dating and stuff in Dallas and doing things, and I'm now kind of settling, I guess, into a little bit of reality and the sadness is kind of seeping back in. I've had dreams the past several nights about my wife that I hadn't had before. So I'm starting to miss my old life now a little bit. So there's going to be some phases to go through here.

Speaker 3: 10:22

It's going to be ups and downs, definitely going to be ups and downs. I mean it's one of those things where it's your past life was all you knew. So it's hard to just sit there and turn around and be like you know, see, with your old life, you know here's the new life You're going to have. That it's part of you know, it's just nature.

Speaker 1: 10:45

Do you ever feel guilty when you?

Speaker 4: 10:45

feel happy, enjoying your new life as a part of this new community. So I have shared a few too many happy things, with one of my daughters in particular. You know I share things that I think people can handle, and even this one daughter was like you know what, dad, that's great, but a little TMI and we're all kind of still hurting, right. So you know they don't want to hear about my dating or I'm just being less. It was like a big wake up call. Like, oh my God, like their heads are still spinning Right, the family is completely different, dynamics are different. My wife and I aren't even talking at all and the kids are in the middle of that and here I am oh, this is so fun, this is this and this is that. And I'm playing in the gay kickball league and I've got a special friend and they're like yeah, they're like we're really glad you're happy and that we don't have to worry about you, but like, ease up Right, ease up on the happiness, because we're still hurting here.

Speaker 3: 11:51

Yeah, which I mean rightfully so.

Speaker 4: 11:54

I was like yeah, like, duh, Like, what have I been doing?

Speaker 3: 11:57

Everybody has their own journey through this, especially your immediate family, so I can understand that. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:03

But I also think it's okay for you, at least personally, to celebrate and be happy in your new life and the fact that you're now honest and living a true life. I don't think, you know, you have to constantly prostrate yourself for the rest of your life. You know, or feel like this terrible guilt. Um, I mean, I'm sure there's always a bit of that right, but like you should enjoy it.

Speaker 4: 12:27

Yeah, I went through a lot of therapy about guilt versus shame and it took a lot of work to get rid of the shame and it's okay to have appropriate guilt.

Speaker 3: 12:38

Does it feel natural now, and the way that I say that is here's how I can say it. When I first came out, it didn't just I could, like the stress came off of me and I'm sure you felt that that boulder come off of you, cause we've all been there, like I don't worry about who knows where what I'm looking like or you know who's going to say something to me anymore. I'm just like here it is, this is me and this is it. Do you feel that way, or do you still feel like that? That kind of like I don't want everybody knowing yet no, it's um.

Speaker 4: 13:13

I've told people who could care less whether I'm gay or straight or anything else, like if I get one little opening to tell them my story, I tell them and then they're like good for you, buddy.

Speaker 3: 13:27

I'm just here to deliver your mail.

Speaker 4: 13:29

Yeah, pretty much like that. So I've said to myself like if I could have written the rosiest imagination of what it would be like when I was in the closet, of how it would feel and what it would be like, I couldn't have come close to it. You know what I mean. So it was always an imagination of terror when I was in it. But even if I tried to paint the best picture on how great it would be and this is the kind of stuff I want people who are in the closet to understand it's just like unbelievable I can't even put it into words at how comfortable it feels to just not have anything to hide. It's just. And the second part of that is the family, the friends, the business associates, the customers, my colleagues. I've cried when I've told people. I still when I tell I told a customer a couple days ago who you know we're close but and she wasn't asking, she wasn't being like nosy.

Speaker 3: 14:48

How's the order? I'm gay. What, what.

Speaker 4: 14:51

Who? Yeah, something I was like. Hey, you know, did you hear about the break I took last fall when I ducked out she?

Speaker 2: 14:57

goes yeah.

Speaker 4: 14:58

I heard something about that, but you know she wasn't digging or prying Right and I said well, let me tell you what happened. And I said, well, let me tell you what happened and told her the whole story. And my sales rep who I've never told directly, I've told others but not like I get everybody together and tell them, you know, make an announcement out of it. As a matter of fact, when I was waiting for you to let me in here, she texted me and said hey, I just spoke to Dr So-and-so and like that's amazing that you are so vulnerable and she was so appreciative of you sharing that with her and be you Right. So that kind of reaction every time I get it I get choked up.

Speaker 1: 15:38

Like just unbelievable. Were you surprised? Like would you say, the majority of people were a lot more accepting than you anticipated? Because I know when I came out, that's my that, that was my reaction. I thought people that would hate me didn't?

Speaker 4: 15:52

no one gives a fuck I think that's true.

Speaker 2: 15:55

Nobody gives a fuck. We paint this big image in our head that everyone cares, but really it's not them. Everyone's already thinking. They're in their own world, thinking about themselves.

Speaker 1: 16:06

Or they already kind of know or think maybe.

Speaker 4: 16:10

And I talked to one person in particular in my business world and I said, call him Joe. I said, joe, like I'm just amazed at the love I feel when I'm sharing this. And literally I get choked up every time and he's like, well, matt, you're getting back what you've put out. And I'm like, well, like if I lived my life as a complete asshole, there would be some mean shit going around Not that I would care, but that felt really good. But on the flip side, you know, I have my wife and her family and friends who want to look at it like I'm a like a fucking cheater, like look what I did all these years. And I have to, I have to give them that. You know what I mean. I did kind of draw a boundary with my wife to say, look, I'm not, I'm not going to let you, you, um, try to make me think I'm a bad person, because I'm not a bad person, I'm a good person. I did bad things. I think she gets that right, but there's still anger. Is that meant?

Speaker 3: 17:20

yeah but in her she will find. She will find happiness. She's probably looking at it as like my life's turned upside down. Now you know she's gonna have to go out and find another relationship and she and she's like look, I'm 60, like why didn't you do this earlier?

Speaker 4: 17:35

now, I don't have time and it's like it's like okay, well, would it have been more convenient if, when you were 30 or 40 or 50, when would have been the right time, right like and, to be clear from our last discussion, like she had warning signs back then too. Yeah, but I just will never put that on her. Yeah, I mean like I just would never do that to her.

Speaker 3: 17:58

So she will definitely find another relationship, and what would be funny is the way that the world works is she'll probably find somebody else that went through something, who is a widow or something like that, or widower now what do I do?

Speaker 4: 18:13

a widower?

Speaker 3: 18:14

okay, a widow, widower gosh, could you imagine she came as a lesbian and you're all another story, but anyway, but like you it's well then, we'd have, we'd have her up but she will find something and then she'll probably come back to you and say you know why if it did happen earlier? Just I'm telling you the way that the world works. It works in this craziest, mysterious ways and we all go through things at certain points in our lives for certain reasons.

Speaker 4: 18:45

I don't know why, but it has happened over and look, I mean, there's a lot of people, and my wife and I included, have always said everything happens for a reason, right. So, and it look, it's not up to me to wish this or that for her. I wish her happiness, right. And like the last time, she kind of texted me and said well, you know, I want you to know I'm, I'm just fine and I'm dating. And I texted back saying I love hearing that, I'm so glad, right. Well, to me she took it the wrong way, right. A lot, of, a lot of jealous you can also.

Speaker 3: 19:26

You could also think about that too, is she? She's also looking at this, as I lost my husband to another person or or to something that she can't fix. So it's and it's always said this it's hard in the relationship.

Speaker 4: 19:42

She can't make you love her so I mean we were best friends. I mean we we had a really like outside of that 2%, like those walls up. She was my best friend. She was just a phenomenal wife, Like we really loved each other. The sex part was awkward and we both knew it, so it kind of terrified me Like, oh, I've got to perform, and blah, blah, blah, and she felt the terror also. We were best friends and I just hope I said to her please, please, please, understand that what we had was real. And she's like how could it have been real when you were doing this?

Speaker 2: 20:28

and so you know, that was that two percent, that was the other side, but my 98 was really me, right and so this, like in the, in this moment being so fresh, like thinking about all those years, do you talk about it Like it may feel like, oh, is that a waste?

Speaker 4: 20:54

And you know. So I just I will never think like that. We had just like raising our kids. And can I get upset here and I won't regret anything and I hope she doesn't right. I just hope she finds some serenity that what we had was real and the joy we had was real and that it wasn't a waste of time, that it was real. So it's hard, like obviously I have to give it to her that you know when she says how could it was real? So it's hard, like obviously I have to give it to her that you know when she says how could it be real? When you were doing all this stuff and I thought that my compartmentalization was so clean. You know, here's my 98%, here's my 2%. There's a big wall in between. Again, through therapy, like I had such anger my wife was actually afraid of me, like the past two or three years I had anger, um anxiety issues.

Speaker 4: 21:54

I had um panic attacks and claustrophobia, like came from nowhere, just my, it was really getting bad and it had everything to do with this big fucking secret. I was hiding whether it be the guilt or the effort that goes into it, but it wasn't so clean, it wasn't so. I thought I was doing just such a phenomenal job at compartmentalizing, but it definitely bled into my real life as well.

Speaker 1: 22:24

I have to tell you I had very similar experiences and we talked about this. Like I compartmentalized everything I like, stuffed my emotions down deep and it really took me finding this amazing hypnotherapist, les Tackett. She's incredible and she literally embottled this. We're five sessions with me and it was just the most uncomfortable five sessions, three hours each, that I've ever done. Yeah, I've got to tell you, three hours per session Because I had a lot repressed. I mean it was serious, but as I was talking, we both had like these, like I was having tremors just flying on an airplane and I never had anxiety that bad.

Speaker 4: 23:03

But I think when you just repress emotion for that long, uh it just it's gonna come out and spill out at some point, right it's why did I like, why did I decide to drive into dallas that night it's, and like, literally like 30 days before I did that, I think I told, told you the last session I woke up one morning and said I'm going to get caught. I'm going to get caught Like I don't know. I've never thought that before. So why did I decide? So part of me is like yeah, I wanted to get caught. Okay, let's go.

Speaker 1: 23:52

So, now that you're caught caught, what are your observations now? Like, clearly, you've been around the community literally for decades now. Like that you've been observing, emphasizing these decades.

Speaker 4: 23:58

Well, it's true let's just say a century it might be better.

Speaker 1: 24:02

Well, here's the deal, like well, it's like reynolds, he looks amazing. So when you look amazing, you can say that and you're like, are you a vampire? I mean, we can, okay, we can out you as a vampire too right now if you want. But I do, like the community. It's just like evolved so much and you've kind of been observing it for a time, right like here and there. So what are your thoughts? I guess, back then and now and like what I don't know, what's your thoughts on? I guess, back then and now and like what I don't know what your thoughts on it? Did you ever think you were going to be a part of it One and two? Now that you're a part of it, what are your thoughts?

Speaker 4: 24:36

Remember I said, you know, I thought it was about sex and at some point, at various points, it was about sex. But it really this is weird to say but it really wasn't about sex. So I would, way back when, when I would go to gay bars once in a while, once in a real blue moon, I would order my gay drink at gay bars was rum and Diet.

Speaker 1: 24:58

Coke, Rum and Diet Coke. That's a gay drink.

Speaker 2: 25:02

I was like I saw this at our pre-show notes, I say what is a gay drink?

Speaker 4: 25:07

That was my drink when I went to a gay bar.

Speaker 1: 25:12

Bacardi and Diet Coke. Bacardi and Diet Coke Right.

Speaker 4: 25:16

It wasn't live, but it was just like my thing when I bellied up to a gay bar. So you were asking about that was too straight right. You were asking about my perceptions of the community.

Speaker 1: 25:32

So you have your game Right.

Speaker 4: 25:34

So back then it was yeah, you know, let's look for a hookup. But gradually over the years was like I would sit at the bar and maybe strike up a chat, but I would watch gay men just have fun and laugh and be themselves. And I was like, oh my God, this is their safe, their safe space. And I was like this is a community and they're not looking for sex, they're not here to find sex. And I was really jealous of that and I was an outsider looking in and I think everybody knew I was the you know in the closet straight guy. So that's one thing the gay community I think is really good at. So that's one thing the gay community I think is really good at. Also, like everybody's very friendly at. Like Like well, I guess, certain bars, the club scene, no.

Speaker 1: 26:40

But what I thought was powerful, as you said to me, we were at Roundup, which is our favorite bar yeah, we go to and obviously a cool bar, yeah. And you said something like, oh, I'm finally a part of this community now that I like, wanted to be a part exactly so I'm not.

Speaker 4: 26:50

I'm not like sneaking around and afraid to get caught or seen. It feels so good to be part of the community. Yeah, like, even even in that scene, like I'm getting tired of the the bar scene and I really am eager to mix it up like with some normal stuff, like your hiking, hiking club or something, so. So in Phoenix I was like, okay, let me. When I threw in the towel and said okay, I'm gay, first thing I did was looked up, um, you know gay activities and there was a gay hiking club and so I just I'm like you know what? I'm going to go, I'm going to bring a little thing and get my hiking shoes and we're going to climb up this mountain. And we met in the parking lot and there was like I don't know 12 or 15.

Speaker 4: 27:41

And I don't mean this the way it sounds, but very gay guys, right, I was like I don't, I'm not really fitting in here and there was like two, two or three women, lesbians, I assumed and you know some small chat again, before we even started the hike, three guys I pulled aside, told them my whole story, how I was outed and blah, blah, blah. And they're like before the hike, three guys I pulled aside, told them my whole story, how I was outed and blah, blah, blah and they're like before the hike started they were like oh my God. They said thanks for sharing and then like fucking ran away from me Like why did he just tell me all of it, right? So we're halfway up the mountain and I'm trying to like make small chat whatever we take a break halfway up the mountain and there's a woman kind of standing by herself and I was standing by myself and I walked up to her and I said hi, I'm Matt. She's like, hi, I'm Aaron. We're like best buds.

Speaker 4: 28:38

Now. She was. She was a lesbian trying to come out and trying to be a member of the community and trying to fit in, and we were in the exact same boat and she's like my first gay friend. It's awesome. Yeah, we're like buddies, that's amazing.

Speaker 1: 28:52

So what are your initial? Is this what you thought the community was going to be like? Have you had any disappointments yet, or are you generally?

Speaker 4: 29:00

obviously there's an ugly side to it also. Right, there's um, I'm learning there's there's a lot of okay, sorry, there's a lot of gossip and yeah, you know, right. So seventh grade girl shit that I want no part of I have.

Speaker 1: 29:16

We have no idea about that. I'm sure you don't. We don't have a group chat. That's on the shit about people with side.

Speaker 4: 29:23

Group chat with my group like yeah, no, I don't, I just don't, I don't, I don't want to like get into that yeah, we have regina george right here then there's with my age. I'm not, I've never even socially, I've never been into like um, hanging out with guys my age, like I used to crossfit. And I would hang out with 20, 30 year olds and like for real, no gay stuff, just that's who I get along with no, homo no, but, but.

Speaker 4: 29:51

but on the sexual side also, I'm into younger guys, um, and there's a lot of like wait a minute, like are you doing this for my money? Or like be care, I know, and that's what's so. You will like that. It makes you paranoid about everything you do and you know that may not be fair to the person you're you're talking to.

Speaker 3: 30:21

So I'll give you hold on, so I'll give you here we go, here we go. If you were dating somebody I don't care what the age is, whatever you're doing, dating wise, when you step up to the plate, they need to step up to the plate. So it's just like when you go out to dinner, okay, they should be willing to pay, just like you should be willing to pay. Just make them.

Speaker 4: 30:44

if they're taking advantage of the situations, that's when you need to so, look, I'm learning to to draw my boundaries and to make sure that, um, people are liking me for the right reasons, and I've also met so many people who are just so nice and they do like me and I like them. We like to laugh, and so, yeah, I gotta be careful.

Speaker 3: 31:09

Um, because especially the younger crowds will take advantage of you yeah, I'm pretty good at sniffing it out.

Speaker 1: 31:17

Here comes adam and he's over here. I have seen it all and I will say adam, ryan, and I will vet everybody for you and gouge their eyes out if they hear you, matt.

Speaker 4: 31:28

So I used to on the strip. I got to know like five bartenders and I was like dude I won't say their names, but I have a good friend bartender at every one of those bars. I'm like can you please watch out for me? Like I'm brand new, like if I'm talking to someone who I shouldn't be talking to or you know some scoop on, and just watch out for me. And they're like dude, I got you like yeah, that's good yeah, yeah, we have a lot of positive.

Speaker 1: 31:57

I mean, there's a lot of negative too, but you'll learn and that's gonna be a learning curve for you for sure.

Speaker 4: 32:04

So let me talk about the sex side of this.

Speaker 1: 32:06

That's the part we love. Brian loves this part.

Speaker 4: 32:11

So when I first moved here, I went a little crazy for like a week. What do you mean? Not a week? Oh, for like maybe ten days. A little crazy. Like you know, we were four hookups in like ten days. Did you say that this is what I'm learning rear? Four hookups in like ten days. That's it, that's what I'm learning. I mean, you know, I'm a sex addict, right?

Speaker 1: 32:35

and if I had walked through the door of this facility, I would have like been burned up alive.

Speaker 4: 32:41

I think so actually I emailed my therapist like a couple weeks ago and I said stacy, I'll call her. I've stopped the 12-step stuff. I'm not a fucking sex addict, I'm gay. And if I'm a sex addict then every gay man ever that walked are sex addicts. Because I'm, I don't have as much sex as they do. Welcome to the club. The other like weird thing to me was like I'd get to know people, friends and hang out with friend groups and they're like, yeah, we fucked last night. I'm like, yeah, cool, and I'll let. And I'm like, so wait, does that get a little awkward? Like if he fucks someone else like tomorrow? And they're like, no, no, no, and I'm like, so you gotta be.

Speaker 2: 33:29

I still be careful that I mean, I think there's still like, there's plenty of us. There's still plenty of us. I think that, yeah, that happens, but there's also, like, I think, cases where there might be feelings or people not addressing feelings, and there's still things there that are going to come out. Adam has so many feelings, so many feelings.

Speaker 1: 33:48

Stuart Medium's getting excited again. Stuart Medium Coming to attention. That's what we call Adam.

Speaker 2: 33:55

Question have you heard of Retmosur or ever used Retmosur?

Speaker 4: 33:59

I've seen it, I've been on it. I've never used it um, I'm not being into spending money yeah, but me neither.

Speaker 2: 34:09

I prefer to make it wow are we, are we? Having a moment, ryan, something no, this is your show, this is your moment.

Speaker 1: 34:16

I'm just um, maybe, but I got a feeling we're having two coming down.

Speaker 4: 34:22

I gotta what's happening, turn on that air conditioner I do think it's super hot that when guys or girls like, if they can, they can commercialize themselves, I have a lot. What do you mean by I have a lot of respect, because it takes confidence and it's not all sex. It's like there's a lot of emotional stuff going on when you draw someone in. Part of that was really hot to me, but I'm not one to when I spend money. If I were to spend money in that, I would be like oh my God, that's like my family's money, that's my kids money. Yeah, you know what I mean. So I take that pretty seriously. She'd rather drink it.

Speaker 2: 35:05

Yeah, the money on. We all make choices where where our money is going. So, where? How are you? Yeah, I don't know. How are you choosing to? How's your money? How's your spending money in the gay community, because it can be also be. Have you gone to puerto? Vallarta yet like to travel, we like to travel, we want to do this was not a part of over his note cards.

Speaker 1: 35:28

But what are your gay wish list items? I would love to know one like, like a port of ayrton.

Speaker 4: 35:33

Obviously me can knows, but like anything else yeah, but I want to go with, like, just a group of guys that we just have fucking so much fun and laugh and yeah, fuck around and like whatever, but I just want to go to have fun, like I'm not, I'm not, it's. It's so weird how when I first I was like, okay, I'm gay, let's go fucking be gay.

Speaker 2: 35:59

Like that's not really high on my list, no it is part, yeah, it's community being free yourself, having fun with other people that are doing.

Speaker 1: 36:09

I mean, that's how we were doing a blast.

Speaker 3: 36:12

Yeah Well, we're only national.

Speaker 4: 36:13

That's how I told you.

Speaker 1: 36:14

Like, if you guys are doing something fun aside from the strip, yeah, I promise that they're a lot of them outside the strap and we definitely like when we go outside of dallas, like we also have just a ton of fun. There's like 10, 12, 15 of us just like yeah, I don't know, having a good time yeah and laughing and having great gossiping, love each other.

Speaker 1: 36:39

There's a lot of gossip, but it's okay. Man, I can't wait for all the the shit you're gonna talk about certain people. I'll I'll, I'll make sure next time we're at round up I'll tell you all the shit about everybody. Shit talked about me too. That's all right, it's okay. Yeah, I mean like a lot of people talk shit about adam because, well, it's out. Yeah, I said a lot of shit too, but and he says a lot of but I'll tell you right to your face I don't hold back, he definitely doesn't hold back. So if you're going to sling it to Adam, make sure that you're ready. You can sling it to him. I've learned not to throw stones and I still throw stones at Adam but he just throws boulders at me.

Speaker 3: 37:17

But no, we have a really good community. It's a lot of fun. You just got to pick and choose where you want to be in that community and what people you want to be around. And that's probably the biggest thing is you're going to go through a lot of friends in the beginning. You're going to learn who are the good people, who are the bad, because even when I moved here, I was friends with everybody and then I picked and choosed. Well, I picked and choosed. You know, know who my close friends were, who I could really count on and all that stuff. And that's where I found not you, and that's where I found that was like a blank.

Speaker 1: 37:48

Oh man, what do you?

Speaker 4: 37:49

would say to me, and that's where, like, I found the close community that like my kickball league, like my team, like we're already doing things like I'm sure it'll be canceled with weather tomorrow. Like last weekend, we went to someone's apartment and had taco night and right, like we laugh. Last weekend we did some day drinking when, yeah, after, after the game, and they're just like you will find really good.

Speaker 2: 38:16

Nice is your is your kickball team all ages.

Speaker 1: 38:21

Yeah, were you not at Woody's? Oh, you weren't at Woody's last week. Oh, my god, it was like all the sweaty kickball guys. Wait, did I see you? I think, yeah, we saw each other. Yeah, it was a sweaty kickball boy. Every Sunday it smelled like a locker room. I think I walked in Woody's and came.

Speaker 3: 38:45

Oh, I'm dead.

Speaker 1: 38:48

Ew, I wanted you to say you're just kidding. No, I had to have something like I don't know fiery to say but yeah, no, there were all the kickball guys around. I'm glad you're doing that. I think it's good and like, look at the end of of the day, like there's going to be people that burn you, but don't let that be like your it's so. Yeah, it happened.

Speaker 2: 39:09

it's just people I like the, I mean one, I like the community aspect, looking for that. But two and I asked the question of your kickball team have all ages, because I something that at least I feel like I've learned through some of my experiences more maybe last five to ten years and for me it was through AIDS life cycle, so charity bike ride San Francisco to LA, but for me in that experience I felt like I connected to people. You know my age, but also like 18 to 25, but also like 55, 70, 80 plus, and I'm getting such like multi-generational mix to see so many different experiences and I think through that I'm just, I mean, I would, I would just stress for everybody. I think that's really important to be able to remind yourself. Like you know, in this I have my own experience, but you can learn so much from other people, uh, with their own experiences, and you get that through different ages especially.

Speaker 4: 40:09

And you can have your preferences on grinder. You know twink or jock or whatever, but don't let that dictate your community.

Speaker 1: 40:21

Yeah, yeah, for sure you should try's life cycle with uh ryan.

Speaker 2: 40:25

He took a break this year, but next year you're gonna be bad oh, I'm big spokesperson for I've done it for four or rides, uh, but it's a charity bike ride from san francisco to la on a bike yeah, we've got, uh, over 2 000 people do it. We raise money for the la lgbt center in san francisco aids foundation and it's just been the most like welcoming, inviting. This is the kind of stuff I want ever I would love to.

Speaker 1: 40:54

Yeah, it's so cool. I have not done the bike ride, I've been the um roadie at the end of the ride and we we're so grateful for you it sets up the charcuterie board with a lot of cards with all the boys the hot, sweaty boys and have their first show Ready to eat yeah.

Speaker 3: 41:12

Pool.

Speaker 1: 41:12

Yeah, it's always been a lot of fun. And then they do, we do a pool party at the Ondas West Hollywood. It's really fun Every year and everybody's been so welcoming.

Speaker 2: 41:28

Fun and it's really fun every year and everybody's been so welcoming fun and some it's also yeah, it has high temperatures.

Speaker 1: 41:31

I also told matt that we have to get him into charity season this year in dallas, since we have a lot of charity here. Yeah, you get to put on your tuxedo, which I have to write a check for five thousand. You don't have to write a check for $5,000? You don't have to write a check, unless you want to get something at the silent auction like a big house.

Speaker 2: 41:47

Maybe, I don't know. Does your company sponsor anything like that, or maybe they already do?

Speaker 4: 41:55

No, I am the company here, so no, they don't.

Speaker 1: 41:59

Black Tie Dinner in particular. You can start that exactly. Yeah, black tie dinner makes more money for the human rights campaign, which is our flagship, like uh, charity for the gay community, than any other charity, any other charity event in the country. And that's here in dallas, texas, which every time somebody's like dallas texas is like a bunch of people that hate gays, so like, please, we're all gay here.

Speaker 4: 42:21

So I have that question, like we're in Texas. Hey like the most, one of the most conservative. Maybe North Dakota is more conservative and I don't feel any homophobia going on in Dallas.

Speaker 3: 42:40

And you'll also see that we have one of the tightest close community ever.

Speaker 4: 42:45

But also not. You're not being attacked. Nope. In other words, conservative, a conservative viewpoint, a conservative culture doesn't mean they're racist or homophobic Exactly.

Speaker 3: 42:57

Cause they want us to come into Highland park and, you know, step the neighborhood up even higher than what it already is.

Speaker 4: 43:03

We know gays turn shit around.

Speaker 3: 43:05

We don't mess the neighborhood up.

Speaker 1: 43:07

No, actually we went in down to Bishop Arts and we like made it really super nice down there. That's where all the married gays are. But you know, you're so right and every time I'm on TikTok and like making a comment about something, everyone like well, you're a gay from texas, everybody hates you. I'm like actually no, I am more accepted here, quite frankly, than parts of la I'm not gonna lie.

Speaker 2: 43:27

Blaine says quite frankly you know it's getting serious that was true.

Speaker 1: 43:31

Like if you've been to different parts of la, you know that as a gay man you're probably not really accepted in some communities. I'm just saying it's true. I feel feel very accepted in Dallas. Sure, you go to the rural areas of the state then maybe, but like, for the most part, you can go to any major city in Texas. I think it'd feel very like. Right, it doesn't have to just be Austin. Actually, austin is just more annoying people, quite frankly no-transcript.

Speaker 2: 44:28

I think and people that we know feel safe here, yes, in Dallas and in the city, but I just think it's also important to be aware of that identity.

Speaker 4: 44:38

That's kind of universal right, I mean.

Speaker 1: 44:41

So I don't think that's a text but I'm glad that you pointed that out from your perspective, because I really try to say that about texas. I think a lot of our cities are very open-minded and welcoming, you know, and I look I have friends from all different races and backgrounds, not just being gay, straight or whatever, and I feel like we actually are very welcoming. It's not some like gun toting, racist, homophobic like thing that everybody paints us as. And, like I said, there's other parts of this country that proclaim to be liberal and all I walk around is see a bunch of, like you know, people that you know, quite frankly, would never go and help a homeless person ever. I'm not talking about the west side of santa monica, but I am.

Speaker 1: 45:29

You know, a 10 million dollar home that's 2 000 square feet. Yeah, yeah, I'm talking about you and you won't go feed a homeless person down in skid row period. You wouldn't even go to skid row. Give me a freaking break. So I do think we have a good community. And adam's point, it is biotite. Yeah, yeah, I get so mad when people say that about dallas so you're tired.

Speaker 4: 45:49

I'm just saying I feel it. I mean I know I need, I know I'm in texas and I I it's a really great gay community I do like it know it's different.

Speaker 1: 46:01

I can't wait for you to go to other gay communities, because New York is spread out a little bit. La is very close. They have a strip like we do, right In West Hollywood they have one, obviously, and another place too, but not all of them are like have a strip like we do, and I think that makes it great because we're able to just kind of like whip around, but yeah, and because we're able to just kind of like whip around, um, but yeah, and we're also really close to each other, because even if you live in the suburbs, like ryan, I'm so far away I did actually when I first moved there it's northwest dallas, it's still I stayed within the 635 you live 19 minutes.

Speaker 2: 46:51

Yeah, suburbs, I know, no, I, I I moved so when I moved to dallas from california, but I started in, I know, and now it goes a little bit out of the way. But I'm really glad to have like the house and I love hosting and that's great. You know, we've got a good space yeah.

Speaker 4: 47:08

It's really now that I'm there like it's not bad and it's a good open space and we've had parties and parties. So my apartment is like right around the corner from the strip and I'm like, oh my God, what did I do?

Speaker 3: 47:15

Like I live around the corner from the strip too. I learned from the strip too and I love it.

Speaker 4: 47:18

Well, you're a sly, I've spent too much time there and I just want to mix it up. I like it, but it can't be like it's easy to jump on that. It's a week every week.

Speaker 1: 47:30

I'm moved to Uptown by the Crescent where I live. It's just a little bit higher.

Speaker 4: 47:35

Just drive over Higher level we can hang out.

Speaker 1: 47:38

Yeah, but I'm just saying like, I'll show you my neighborhood and I think you'll like it because it's walkable, like the Strip, but not lower Stringville. You wouldn't want to live there, though. Just saying For your next place, whenever that is Well. Any closing thoughts?

Speaker 2: 47:55

Matt on this Towards the end. This is such a good conversation.

Speaker 1: 48:00

I mean it's so good. We could literally do like an 80 part series on this one, but we're gonna leave this for matt's buck and we are super thankful that he let us do that.

Speaker 4: 48:09

I love, thank you. At first I was like nervous about wait. How much do I want to talk about? How much do I want to like, expose, expose.

Speaker 3: 48:19

And I'm like you know what if I'm doing it for the right reason, like Wait until you sit at that bar one day and you have you come up to you and say I'm in the closet.

Speaker 2: 48:32

And then he's going to be ready to tell his stories.

Speaker 1: 48:36

It'll happen.

Speaker 3: 48:37

I was in your place. Yeah, I know what you're going through.

Speaker 4: 48:40

So I didn't do this to like be congratulated or, you know, act like a hero or anything or courageous at all. It's therapeutic for me to talk about it. Someone have a different perspective, other than living a lie with themselves and their loved ones. I just want to offer that I think it's amazing.

Speaker 1: 49:10

That's amazing, that's very brave and that is such a great message that people need to hear and thank you so much for that, even if it's one person finds coffee with gays, listens to this one episode.

Speaker 2: 49:22

Hopefully we have a few more than that watch out, but we're not. This is gonna read oh wait wait, dude, like ever.

Speaker 4: 49:28

Does everybody know this podcast?

Speaker 2: 49:30

we're so famous.

Speaker 1: 49:31

I mean, we're really not but I will say, like there are people that like come up to me that I'm like really you listen to that. I have this okay, and I'll get into some arguments.

Speaker 2: 49:44

I don't even know how they listen to it Really, you get into some arguments. No, you know me I love an argument, Especially a few drinks in about 10 o'clock, or you know like 3 pm on like a Sunday. Or random. Yeah, sunday fun days are another.

Speaker 1: 50:02

Again, few resources for anybody. You know eFlag, I think, is an amazing one for families looking for help, and you know newly out gay people, and then also your local LGBTQ center, if you have one in a city, and then the Trevor Project is great as well, and then RAINN, and we'll go ahead and post all these in our uh bios and all of our social media accounts as well for anybody that was a victim of any kind of csa. So also, this has been such a great, amazing episode. Thank you, matt I mean literally like thanks for having me at some point. Yeah, thank you, I'm honored to be here. Thank you. Yeah, we just want to help you tell your story and help anybody that you know can be helped by this, because poof coming at, we all came out at one point and it was hard, and yours is hard. So congratulations and we look forward to your future and cheers to the future and your happiness. Cheers, adam, smile.