Life After Coming Out at 60: Matt Starts Over (Part 2) | Ep 22

Life After Coming Out at 60: Matt Starts Over (Part 2) – At 60, Matt’s life took a dramatic turn when he was outed, abruptly ending a 35-year marriage. In Part 2 of his story, Matt opens up about starting over as an openly gay man in Dallas – from finding love and community to rebuilding family relationships. This heartfelt conversation explores the challenges of dating later in life, learning self-acceptance, and the power of an affirming LGBTQ community.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

• Embracing your true identity after decades of secrecy
• Building a support network and community from scratch in a new city
• Navigating first dates, new friendships, and unexpected feelings of guilt at 60
• How chosen family and therapy helped Matt heal and find joy again

Why it matters: Not everyone gets to choose how – or when – they come out. Matt’s journey shows that it’s never too late to live authentically and find the community that will lift you up.

If you enjoy this episode, follow @CoffeewithGays for more true stories every Thursday. And if you missed Part 1 of Matt’s story, be sure to check out the previous episode! Feel free to share this story with a friend or leave us a rating/review to let us know what you think.

⏱️ Chapters
00:00 — Introduction & New Beginnings
02:50 — Life After Coming Out
05:31 — Finding an LGBTQ Community from Scratch
07:53 — Navigating Happiness and Guilt
10:36 — The Freedom of Being Out
13:17 — Relationships, Dating & Acceptance
16:24 — Ongoing Self-Discovery
19:05 — Observations on Community & Culture
28:26 — Starting Over Later in Life
30:57 — Exploring Sexuality & New Connections
36:18 — Building Friendships & Support Systems
39:28 — Belonging in a Traditionally Conservative Environment
45:04 — Sharing Stories & Personal Growth

Transcript

Introduction to Matt's Story Part 2

Speaker 1 0:05

Hey y'all , it's Blaine . Welcome to Coffee with Gaze . And this is part two of Matt's story . We actually recorded this episode over a year ago , right before Pride of 2024 . And , for a multitude of reasons , we couldn't release it then Timing , life , emotions , you name it . We had it , but now we're finally ready , and we're so proud to bring this episode to you . If you missed last week's episode're so proud to bring this episode to you . If you missed last week's episode , I encourage you to go back and watch part one of Matt's story .

Speaker 1 0:36

He was outed by one of the most devastating ways possible A man stole his phone , extorted his family , and , after that , 35 years of marriage came crumbling down . This episode , though , is what came after . It's not about the coming out . It's about the rebuilding , the reclaiming and the belonging , and this story really even hit me harder now , because I just came back from a trip from Spain , where I met a man who is from the so-called new Middle East . You know , he's wealthy , professional , privileged , in his late 30s , and he's moving to Europe . And you say why ? Well , because his home country people were asking why he's moving to Europe . And you say why ? Well , because in his home country , people were asking why he's not married in his late 30s . You know , there the question isn't just social pressure , it's a threat . You can lose your job , your safety , your future , even when you're privileged . And that's still the reality in the majority of the world . Meanwhile , in the US , we forget how recent our progress really is . Matt didn't grow up in 2025 . He grew up in a world where coming out could cost you everything . Some of y'all haven't even seen Philadelphia where Tom Hanks plays a gay lawyer you know , dying of AIDS , Hired by his firm , rejected by his friends and co-workers and left to die alone . That was only in 1993 . It is not ancient history . So , no , we don't get to judge people who didn't come out sooner and we sure as hell don't get to take our freedoms now for granted .

Speaker 1 1:54

There's a moment in this episode I'll never forget . Matt told me he used to go to gay bars and he'd order his gay drink a Bacardi and Coke and he would watch people laughing and being themselves and talking and realized that this was a community of people and he was kind of jealous and he wanted to be a part of that . And then we were standing at one of our gay bars here in Dallas Roundup . And he looked over to me and said , wow , I'm finally a part of this community and I'm so happy to be here Such a pivotal moment . I was so happy to be there for that , for him . And that's what this story is all about Finding your people , living your truth , no matter how long it takes . So , wherever you are , whoever you are , you get one life to live it . I hope Matt's story hits you the same way it hit us . So follow Coffee with Gaze for more stories that stay with you and happy pride . So enjoy part two of matt's story welcome to coffee with jay welcome to coffee with gays .

Speaker 1 2:57

I'm blade , I'm ryan , I'm adam and we are here with our special guest , matt yay , yay , welcome Matt , welcome back .

Speaker 1 3:07

It is part two of your segment , because we wanted to split this into two segments , and this is about your new beginning and embracing the community after decades of secrecy , really . So we're really happy that you're here and , wow , that last I just outed my age , sorry . Sorry , but you're outing so good , but you look so good . Come on , matt , you look amazing . We really super appreciate the story and that was so heavy . And thank you for coming back for this new segment , because I think one of the interesting things to us was , when we were talking about this is , yes , there was a lot of heaviness and a lot of things that you had to deal with , but then there's also been a lot of revelations and , I think , a lot of happiness and joy that people can actually look forward to when coming out and making a decision like this . So we kind of wanted to , you know , talk about that too .

Speaker 3 4:00

I think it's really really important to talk about , like the life after . So after you were ripped out of the closet and after everything was thrown out on the table and literally butcher shops and thrown back into your life , you know where do you stand now .

Speaker 4 4:14

I mean , it's six weeks in a treatment , but it's . It's still very new , so it's a big journey ahead of me , but I can . I can tell you what it's been since I've Acknowledged my gayness and to recap for everybody , that was september 1st of last year .

Speaker 1 4:33

We're now in may , so it's only been like what I got out of seven months treatment mid-october , and it wasn't until somewhere around December , january , where I said yeah , okay .

Speaker 2 4:49

And I ask what were the holidays like for you this time , ah ?

Speaker 4 4:54

you know what ? I don't even remember them . Well , like honestly .

Speaker 3 4:59

Did you spend them with your kids ?

Speaker 4 5:00

I don't remember . I know one of them or maybe both of them . They went back to new jersey to be with my wife . So I remember thanksgiving I was feeling a little lonely , honestly I don't like . And christmas , yeah , I think we had people around . Um , I was in phoenix and christ Christmas I was with my at least one of my kids here in Phoenix .

Speaker 3 5:29

Okay , so do you currently live in Dallas right now ? Yes , okay , when did you move ?

Speaker 4 5:36

Early March .

Speaker 3 5:37

Okay ,

The Aftermath of Being Outed

Speaker 3 5:39

nice .

Speaker 1 5:39

Well , and what made you decide to do that ?

Speaker 4 5:42

Again , it wasn't my decision . And what made you decide to do that ? Again , it wasn't my decision .

Speaker 2 5:48

Um , my previous boss , after he was so gracious and so generous with me being away knew that I was now single and he felt it was important for me to be in Dallas in the office had that not happened , like where do you think you'd live or where do you choose ?

Speaker 4 6:12

So I actually , when I got out of treatment , my wife had . While I was in treatment my wife had said by the way , your stuff is with my daughter .

Speaker 3 6:21

So she packed your stuff and moved it out .

Speaker 4 6:23

She packed my stuff , moved it out , daughter . So she packed your stuff and moved it out . She packed my stuff , moved it out when I got out of treatment . I have a place in Phoenix , but I rent that out for income . So I got an apartment . I signed a lease in Phoenix , Maybe like January 1st . I was there two months . My boss asked me to move , so the company had to buy out my lease . I was a couple miles up the road from my two daughters and my grandson , which was just ideal , but again in hindsight I think they needed their space and I needed my space . So I didn't want to move to Dallas , but I think it was best thing for everyone .

Speaker 1 7:02

What's your thought so far , by the way , of the Dallas gay community , because I think it's one of the best gay communities in our country . That's my thought .

Speaker 4 7:08

So I don't have a lifelong history of knowing gay communities , but I did make an effort in Phoenix and I started to make an effort . I wasn't there very long but I looked for stuff . I found one gay hiking club and I did that once . It was good . That's a whole story there also .

Speaker 2 7:29

Another fun story in the woods .

Speaker 1 7:33

No no .

Speaker 4 7:34

Very clean . But so I didn't really feel a community there , and maybe it's because I was spending my time with my family and I was still going to 12 step treatments where you know I can't do this , this or that , like drink or vape , or like I was still in the I'm a sex addict mode . So the Dallas gay community has just been phenomenal . I really feel like a part of a community here .

Speaker 2 8:03

Yeah , I want , I want to know , just in your story I'm hearing a lot of choices or things happening that weren't your choice , from being ripped out to choosing to even be in Dallas what are you intending on doing now that Matt is going to decide ? I'm going to do this for me now . Is there any of that , Ryan ?

Speaker 4 8:25

holy shit , you sound like my therapist my god could like be your next classes . You go to add it to my seven real job because I mean that brought me back to therapy where they were like , um , my wants and needs matter , and my wants and needs never mattered before , except for this entitlement thing on the side . Everything else was always for other people . So , yeah , that's a really good question and I'm still learning that Absolutely . I'm saying to my kids like you know what I need to do this for me . Now it's my turn .

Speaker 2 9:05

Right and you're exploring that for yourself . But I think on our last episode we talked about mourning the end of that life that you had before , and is there a sense everyone's kind of going through some of that pain ? Do you feel , while you're making those decisions decisions looking for your own happiness do you feel still a sense of um responsibility or or any of that pain , or how is everyone processing ?

Speaker 4 9:35

and it's , it's funny . I mean , look , I and there's gonna be waves coming , um , and I feel like I'm right now getting into a wave of okay , look I , look , I've announced that I'm gay . I've told everybody I can tell whether they want to hear it or not that I'm gay and it feels phenomenal to say that . And gee , I'm meeting great people , you know , dating and stuff in Dallas and doing things , and I'm now kind of settling , I guess , into a little bit of reality and the sadness is kind of seeping back in . I've had dreams the past several nights about my wife that I hadn't had before . So I'm starting to miss my old life now a little bit . So there's going to be some phases to go through here .

Speaker 3 10:22

It's going to be ups and downs , definitely going to be ups and downs . I mean it's one of those things where it's your past life was all you knew . So it's hard to just sit there and turn around and be like you know , see , with your old life , you know here's the new life You're going to have . That it's part of you know , it's just nature .

Speaker 1 10:45

Do you ever feel guilty when you ?

Speaker 4 10:45

feel happy , enjoying your new life as a part of this new community . So I have shared a few too many happy things , with one of my daughters in particular . You know I share things that I think people can handle , and even this one daughter was like you know what , dad , that's great , but a little TMI and we're all kind of still hurting , right . So you know they don't want to hear about my

Mourning the End of a Marriage

Speaker 4 11:12

dating or I'm just being less . It was like a big wake up call . Like , oh my God , like their heads are still spinning Right , the family is completely different , dynamics are different . My wife and I aren't even talking at all and the kids are in the middle of that and here I am oh , this is so fun , this is this and this is that . And I'm playing in the gay kickball league and I've got a special friend and they're like yeah , they're like we're really glad you're happy and that we don't have to worry about you , but like , ease up Right , ease up on the happiness , because we're still hurting here .

Speaker 3 11:51

Yeah , which I mean rightfully so .

Speaker 4 11:54

I was like yeah , like , duh , Like , what have I been doing ?

Speaker 3 11:57

Everybody has their own journey through this , especially your immediate family , so I can understand that . Yeah .

Speaker 1 12:03

But I also think it's okay for you , at least personally , to celebrate and be happy in your new life and the fact that you're now honest and living a true life . I don't think , you know , you have to constantly prostrate yourself for the rest of your life . You know , or feel like this terrible guilt . Um , I mean , I'm sure there's always a bit of that right , but like you should enjoy it .

Speaker 4 12:27

Yeah , I went through a lot of therapy about guilt versus shame and it took a lot of work to get rid of the shame and it's okay to have appropriate guilt .

Speaker 3 12:38

Does it feel natural now , and the way that I say that is here's how I can say it . When I first came out , it didn't just I could , like the stress came off of me and I'm sure you felt that that boulder come off of you , cause we've all been there , like I don't worry about who knows where what I'm looking like or you know who's going to say something to me anymore . I'm just like here it is , this is me and this is it . Do you feel that way , or do you still feel like that ? That kind of like I don't want everybody knowing yet no , it's um .

Speaker 4 13:13

I've told people who could care less whether I'm gay or straight or anything else , like if I get one little opening to tell them my story , I tell them and then they're like good for you , buddy .

Speaker 3 13:27

I'm just here to deliver your mail .

Speaker 4 13:29

Yeah , pretty much like that . So I've said to myself like if I could have written the rosiest imagination of what it would be like when I was in the closet , of how it would feel and what it would be like , I couldn't have come close to it . You know what I mean . So it was always an imagination of terror when I was in it . But even if I tried to paint the best picture on how great it would be and this is the kind of stuff I want people who are in the closet to understand it's just like unbelievable I can't even put it into words at how comfortable it feels to just not have anything to hide . It's just . And the second part of that is the family , the friends , the business associates , the customers , my colleagues . I've cried when I've told people . I still when I tell I told a customer a couple days ago who you know we're close but and she wasn't asking , she wasn't being like nosy .

Speaker 3 14:48

How's the order ? I'm gay . What , what .

Speaker 4 14:51

Who ? Yeah , something I was like . Hey , you know , did you hear about the break I took last fall when I ducked out she ?

Speaker 2 14:57

goes yeah .

Speaker 4 14:58

I heard something about that , but you know she wasn't digging or prying Right and I said well , let me tell you what happened . And I said , well , let me tell you what happened and told her the whole story . And my sales rep who I've never told directly , I've told others but not like I get everybody together and tell them , you know , make an announcement out of it . As a matter of fact , when I was waiting for you to let me in here , she texted me and said hey , I just spoke to Dr So-and-so and like that's amazing that you are so vulnerable and she was so appreciative of you sharing that with her and be you Right . So that kind of reaction every time I get it I get choked up .

Speaker 1 15:38

Like just unbelievable . Were you surprised ? Like would you say , the majority of people were a lot more accepting than you anticipated ? Because I know when I came out , that's my that , that was my reaction . I thought people that would hate me didn't ?

Speaker 4 15:52

no one gives a fuck I think that's true .

Speaker 2 15:55

Nobody gives a fuck . We paint this big image in our head that everyone cares , but really it's not them . Everyone's already thinking . They're in their own world , thinking about themselves .

Speaker 1 16:06

Or they already kind of know or think maybe .

Speaker 4 16:10

And I talked to one person in particular in my business world and I said , call him Joe . I said , joe , like I'm just amazed at the love I feel when I'm sharing this . And literally I get choked up every time and he's like , well , matt , you're getting back what you've put out . And I'm like , well , like if I lived my life as a complete asshole , there would be some mean shit going around Not that I would care , but that felt really good . But on the flip side , you know , I have my wife and her family and friends who want to look at it like I'm a like a fucking cheater , like look what I did all these years . And I have to , I have to give them that . You know what I mean . I did kind of draw a boundary with my wife to say , look , I'm not , I'm not going to let you , you , um , try to make me think I'm a bad person , because I'm not a bad person , I'm a good person . I did bad things . I think she gets that right , but there's still anger . Is that meant ?

Speaker 3 17:20

yeah but in her she will find . She will find happiness . She's probably looking at it as like my life's turned upside down . Now you know she's gonna have to go out and find another relationship and she and she's like look , I'm 60 , like why didn't you do this earlier ?

Speaker 4 17:35

now , I don't have time and it's like it's like okay , well , would it have been more convenient if , when you were 30 or 40 or 50 , when would have been the right time , right like and , to be clear from our last discussion , like she had warning signs back then too . Yeah , but I just will never put that on her . Yeah , I mean like I just would never do that to her .

Speaker 3 17:58

So she will definitely find another relationship , and what would be funny is the way that the world works is she'll probably find somebody else that went through something , who is a widow or something like that , or widower now what do I do ?

Speaker 4 18:13

a widower ?

Speaker 3 18:14

okay , a widow , widower gosh , could you imagine she came as a lesbian and you're all another story , but anyway , but like you it's well then , we'd have , we'd have her up but she will find something and then she'll probably come back to you and say you know why if it did happen earlier ? Just I'm telling you the way that the world works . It works in this craziest , mysterious ways and we all go through things at certain points in our lives for certain reasons .

Speaker 4 18:45

I don't know why , but it has happened over and look , I mean , there's a lot

Finding Community in Dallas

Speaker 4 18:50

of people , and my wife and I included , have always said everything happens for a reason , right . So , and it look , it's not up to me to wish this or that for her . I wish her happiness , right . And like the last time , she kind of texted me and said well , you know , I want you to know I'm , I'm just fine and I'm dating . And I texted back saying I love hearing that , I'm so glad , right . Well , to me she took it the wrong way , right . A lot , of , a lot of jealous you can also .

Speaker 3 19:26

You could also think about that too , is she ? She's also looking at this , as I lost my husband to another person or or to something that she can't fix . So it's and it's always said this it's hard in the relationship .

Speaker 4 19:42

She can't make you love her so I mean we were best friends . I mean we we had a really like outside of that 2% , like those walls up . She was my best friend . She was just a phenomenal wife , Like we really loved each other . The sex part was awkward and we both knew it , so it kind of terrified me Like , oh , I've got to perform , and blah , blah , blah , and she felt the terror also . We were best friends and I just hope I said to her please , please , please , understand that what we had was real . And she's like how could it have been real when you were doing this ?

Speaker 2 20:28

and so you know , that was that two percent , that was the other side , but my 98 was really me , right and so this , like in the , in this moment being so fresh , like thinking about all those years , do you talk about it Like it may feel like , oh , is that a waste ?

Speaker 4 20:54

And you know . So I just I will never think like that . We had just like raising our kids . And can I get upset here and I won't regret anything and I hope she doesn't right . I just hope she finds some serenity that what we had was real and the joy we had was real and that it wasn't a waste of time , that it was real . So it's hard , like obviously I have to give it to her that you know when she says how could it was real ? So it's hard , like obviously I have to give it to her that you know when she says how could it be real ? When you were doing all this stuff and I thought that my compartmentalization was so clean . You know , here's my 98% , here's my 2% . There's a big wall in between . Again , through therapy , like I had such anger my wife was actually afraid of me , like the past two or three years I had anger , um anxiety issues .

Speaker 4 21:54

I had um panic attacks and claustrophobia , like came from nowhere , just my , it was really getting bad and it had everything to do with this big fucking secret . I was hiding whether it be the guilt or the effort that goes into it , but it wasn't so clean , it wasn't so . I thought I was doing just such a phenomenal job at compartmentalizing , but it definitely bled into my real life as well .

Speaker 1 22:24

I have to tell you I had very similar experiences and we talked about this . Like I compartmentalized everything I like , stuffed my emotions down deep and it really took me finding this amazing hypnotherapist , les Tackett . She's incredible and she literally embottled this . We're five sessions with me and it was just the most uncomfortable five sessions , three hours each , that I've ever done . Yeah , I've got to tell you , three hours per session Because I had a lot repressed . I mean it was serious , but as I was talking , we both had like these , like I was having tremors just flying on an airplane and I never had anxiety that bad .

Speaker 4 23:03

But I think when you just repress emotion for that long , uh it just it's gonna come out and spill out at some point , right it's why did I like , why did I decide to drive into dallas that night it's , and like , literally like 30 days before I did that , I think I told , told you the last session I woke up one morning and said I'm going to get caught . I'm going to get caught Like I don't know . I've never thought that before . So why did I decide ? So part of me is like yeah , I wanted to get caught . Okay , let's go .

Speaker 1 23:52

So , now that you're caught caught , what are your observations now ? Like , clearly , you've been around the community literally for decades now . Like that you've been observing , emphasizing these decades .

Speaker 4 23:58

Well , it's true let's just say a century it might be better .

Speaker 1 24:02

Well , here's the deal , like well , it's like reynolds , he looks amazing . So when you look amazing , you can say that and you're like , are you a vampire ? I mean , we can , okay , we can out you as a vampire too right now if you want . But I do , like the community . It's just like evolved so much and you've kind of been observing it for a time , right like here and there . So what are your thoughts ? I guess , back then and now and like what I don't know , what's your thoughts on ? I guess , back then and now and like what I don't know what your thoughts on it ? Did you ever think you were going to be a part of it One and two ? Now that you're a part of it , what are your thoughts ?

Speaker 4 24:36

Remember I said , you know , I thought it was about sex and at some point , at various

From Secret Bar Visits to Belonging

Speaker 4 24:42

points , it was about sex . But it really this is weird to say but it really wasn't about sex . So I would , way back when , when I would go to gay bars once in a while , once in a real blue moon , I would order my gay drink at gay bars was rum and Diet .

Speaker 1 24:58

Coke , Rum and Diet Coke . That's a gay drink .

Speaker 2 25:02

I was like I saw this at our pre-show notes , I say what is a gay drink ?

Speaker 4 25:07

That was my drink when I went to a gay bar .

Speaker 1 25:12

Bacardi and Diet Coke . Bacardi and Diet Coke Right .

Speaker 4 25:16

It wasn't live , but it was just like my thing when I bellied up to a gay bar . So you were asking about that was too straight right . You were asking about my perceptions of the community .

Speaker 1 25:32

So you have your game Right .

Speaker 4 25:34

So back then it was yeah , you know , let's look for a hookup . But gradually over the years was like I would sit at the bar and maybe strike up a chat , but I would watch gay men just have fun and laugh and be themselves . And I was like , oh my God , this is their safe , their safe space . And I was like this is a community and they're not looking for sex , they're not here to find sex . And I was really jealous of that and I was an outsider looking in and I think everybody knew I was the you know in the closet straight guy . So that's one thing the gay community I think is really good at . So that's one thing the gay community I think is really good at . Also , like everybody's very friendly at . Like Like well , I guess , certain bars , the club scene , no .

Speaker 1 26:40

But what I thought was powerful , as you said to me , we were at Roundup , which is our favorite bar yeah , we go to and obviously a cool bar , yeah . And you said something like , oh , I'm finally a part of this community now that I like , wanted to be a part exactly so I'm not .

Speaker 4 26:50

I'm not like sneaking around and afraid to get caught or seen . It feels so good to be part of the community . Yeah , like , even even in that scene , like I'm getting tired of the the bar scene and I really am eager to mix it up like with some normal stuff , like your hiking , hiking club or something , so . So in Phoenix I was like , okay , let me . When I threw in the towel and said okay , I'm gay , first thing I did was looked up , um , you know gay activities and there was a gay hiking club and so I just I'm like you know what ? I'm going to go , I'm going to bring a little thing and get my hiking shoes and we're going to climb up this mountain . And we met in the parking lot and there was like I don't know 12 or 15 .

Speaker 4 27:41

And I don't mean this the way it sounds , but very gay guys , right , I was like I don't , I'm not really fitting in here and there was like two , two or three women , lesbians , I assumed and you know some small chat again , before we even started the hike , three guys I pulled aside , told them my whole story , how I was outed and blah , blah , blah . And they're like before the hike , three guys I pulled aside , told them my whole story , how I was outed and blah , blah , blah and they're like before the hike started they were like oh my God . They said thanks for sharing and then like fucking ran away from me Like why did he just tell me all of it , right ? So we're halfway up the mountain and I'm trying to like make small chat whatever we take a break halfway up the mountain and there's a woman kind of standing by herself and I was standing by myself and I walked up to her and I said hi , I'm Matt . She's like , hi , I'm Aaron . We're like best buds .

Speaker 4 28:38

Now . She was . She was a lesbian trying to come out and trying to be a member of the community and trying to fit in , and we were in the exact same boat and she's like my first gay friend . It's awesome . Yeah , we're like buddies , that's amazing .

Speaker 1 28:52

So what are your initial ? Is this what you thought the community was going to be like ? Have you had any disappointments yet , or are you generally ?

Speaker 4 29:00

obviously there's an ugly side to it also . Right , there's um , I'm learning there's there's a lot of okay , sorry , there's a lot of gossip and yeah , you know , right . So seventh grade girl shit that I want no part of I have .

Speaker 1 29:16

We have no idea about that . I'm sure you don't . We don't have a group chat . That's on the shit about people with side .

Speaker 4 29:23

Group chat with my group like yeah , no , I don't , I just don't , I don't , I don't want to like get into that yeah , we have regina george right here then there's with my age . I'm not , I've never even socially , I've never been into like um , hanging out with guys my age , like I used to crossfit . And I would hang out with 20 , 30 year olds and like for real , no gay stuff , just that's who I get along with no , homo no , but , but .

Speaker 4 29:51

but on the sexual side also , I'm into younger guys , um , and there's a lot of like wait a minute , like are you doing this for my money ? Or like be care , I know , and that's what's so . You will like that . It makes you paranoid about everything you do and you know that may not be fair to the person you're you're talking to .

Speaker 3 30:21

So I'll give you hold on , so I'll give you here we go , here we go . If you were dating somebody I don't care what the age is , whatever you're doing , dating wise , when you step up to the plate , they need to step up to the plate . So it's just like when you go out to dinner , okay , they should be willing to pay , just like you should be willing to pay . Just make them .

Speaker 4 30:44

if they're taking advantage of the situations , that's when you need to so , look , I'm learning to to draw my boundaries and to make sure that , um , people are liking me for the right reasons , and I've also met so many people who are just so nice and they do like me and I like them . We like to laugh , and so , yeah , I gotta be careful .

Speaker 3 31:09

Um , because especially the younger crowds will take advantage of you yeah , I'm pretty good at sniffing it out .

Speaker 1 31:17

Here comes adam and he's over here . I have seen it all and I will say adam , ryan , and I will vet everybody for you and gouge their eyes out if they hear you , matt .

Speaker 4 31:28

So I used to on the strip . I got to know like five bartenders and I was like dude I won't say their names , but I have a good friend bartender at every one of those bars . I'm like can you please watch out for me ? Like I'm brand new , like if I'm talking to someone who I shouldn't be talking to or you know some scoop on , and just watch out for me . And they're like dude , I got you like yeah , that's good yeah , yeah , we have a lot of positive .

Speaker 1 31:57

I mean , there's a lot of negative too , but you'll learn and that's gonna be a learning curve for you for sure .

Speaker 4 32:04

So let me talk about the sex side of this .

Speaker 1 32:06

That's the part we love . Brian loves this part .

Speaker 4 32:11

So when I first moved here , I went a little crazy for like a week . What do you mean ? Not a week ? Oh , for like maybe ten days . A little crazy . Like you know , we were four hookups in like ten days . Did you say that this is what I'm learning rear ? Four hookups in like ten days . That's it , that's what I'm learning . I mean , you know , I'm a sex addict , right ?

Speaker 1 32:35

and if I had walked through the door of this facility , I would have like been burned up alive .

Speaker 4 32:41

I think so actually I emailed my therapist like a couple weeks ago and I said stacy , I'll call her . I've stopped the 12-step stuff . I'm not a fucking sex addict , I'm gay . And if I'm a sex addict then every gay man ever that

Gay Dating and Setting Boundaries

Speaker 4 32:59

walked are sex addicts . Because I'm , I don't have as much sex as they do . Welcome to the club . The other like weird thing to me was like I'd get to know people , friends and hang out with friend groups and they're like , yeah , we fucked last night . I'm like , yeah , cool , and I'll let . And I'm like , so wait , does that get a little awkward ? Like if he fucks someone else like tomorrow ? And they're like , no , no , no , and I'm like , so you gotta be .

Speaker 2 33:29

I still be careful that I mean , I think there's still like , there's plenty of us . There's still plenty of us . I think that , yeah , that happens , but there's also , like , I think , cases where there might be feelings or people not addressing feelings , and there's still things there that are going to come out . Adam has so many feelings , so many feelings .

Speaker 1 33:48

Stuart Medium's getting excited again . Stuart Medium Coming to attention . That's what we call Adam .

Speaker 2 33:55

Question have you heard of Retmosur or ever used Retmosur ?

Speaker 4 33:59

I've seen it , I've been on it . I've never used it um , I'm not being into spending money yeah , but me neither .

Speaker 2 34:09

I prefer to make it wow are we , are we ? Having a moment , ryan , something no , this is your show , this is your moment .

Speaker 1 34:16

I'm just um , maybe , but I got a feeling we're having two coming down .

Speaker 4 34:22

I gotta what's happening , turn on that air conditioner I do think it's super hot that when guys or girls like , if they can , they can commercialize themselves , I have a lot . What do you mean by I have a lot of respect , because it takes confidence and it's not all sex . It's like there's a lot of emotional stuff going on when you draw someone in . Part of that was really hot to me , but I'm not one to when I spend money . If I were to spend money in that , I would be like oh my God , that's like my family's money , that's my kids money . Yeah , you know what I mean . So I take that pretty seriously . She'd rather drink it .

Speaker 2 35:05

Yeah , the money on . We all make choices where where our money is going . So , where ? How are you ? Yeah , I don't know . How are you choosing to ? How's your money ? How's your spending money in the gay community , because it can be also be . Have you gone to puerto ? Vallarta yet like to travel , we like to travel , we want to do this was not a part of over his note cards .

Speaker 1 35:28

But what are your gay wish list items ? I would love to know one like , like a port of ayrton .

Speaker 4 35:33

Obviously me can knows , but like anything else yeah , but I want to go with , like , just a group of guys that we just have fucking so much fun and laugh and yeah , fuck around and like whatever , but I just want to go to have fun , like I'm not , I'm not , it's . It's so weird how when I first I was like , okay , I'm gay , let's go fucking be gay .

Speaker 2 35:59

Like that's not really high on my list , no it is part , yeah , it's community being free yourself , having fun with other people that are doing .

Speaker 1 36:09

I mean , that's how we were doing a blast .

Speaker 3 36:12

Yeah Well , we're only national .

Speaker 4 36:13

That's how I told you .

Speaker 1 36:14

Like , if you guys are doing something fun aside from the strip , yeah , I promise that they're a lot of them outside the strap and we definitely like when we go outside of dallas , like we also have just a ton of fun . There's like 10 , 12 , 15 of us just like yeah , I don't know , having a good time yeah and laughing and having great gossiping , love each other .

Speaker 1 36:39

There's a lot of gossip , but it's okay . Man , I can't wait for all the the shit you're gonna talk about certain people . I'll I'll , I'll make sure next time we're at round up I'll tell you all the shit about everybody . Shit talked about me too . That's all right , it's okay . Yeah , I mean like a lot of people talk shit about adam because , well , it's out . Yeah , I said a lot of shit too , but and he says a lot of but I'll tell you right to your face I don't hold back , he definitely doesn't hold back . So if you're going to sling it to Adam , make sure that you're ready . You can sling it to him . I've learned not to throw stones and I still throw stones at Adam but he just throws boulders at me .

Speaker 3 37:17

But no , we have a really good community . It's a lot of fun . You just got to pick and choose where you want to be in that community and what people you want to be around . And that's probably the biggest thing is you're going to go through a lot of friends in the beginning . You're going to learn who are the good people , who are the bad , because even when I moved here , I was friends with everybody and then I picked and choosed . Well , I picked and choosed . You know , know who my close friends were , who I could really count on and all that stuff . And that's where I found not you , and that's where I found that was like a blank .

Speaker 1 37:48

Oh man , what do you ?

Speaker 4 37:49

would say to me , and that's where , like , I found the close community that like my kickball league , like my team , like we're already doing things like I'm sure it'll be canceled with weather tomorrow . Like last weekend , we went to someone's apartment and had taco night and right , like we laugh . Last weekend we did some day drinking when , yeah , after , after the game , and they're just like you will find really good .

Speaker 2 38:16

Nice is your is your kickball team all ages .

Speaker 1 38:21

Yeah , were you not at Woody's ? Oh , you weren't at Woody's last week . Oh , my god , it was like all the sweaty kickball guys . Wait , did I see you ? I think , yeah , we saw each other . Yeah , it was a sweaty kickball boy . Every Sunday it smelled like a locker room . I think I walked in Woody's and came .

Speaker 3 38:45

Oh , I'm dead .

Speaker 1 38:48

Ew , I wanted you to say you're just kidding . No , I had to have something like I don't know fiery to say but yeah , no , there were all the kickball guys around . I'm glad you're doing that . I think it's good and like , look at the end of of the day , like there's going to be people that burn you , but don't let that be like your it's so . Yeah , it happened .

Speaker 2 39:09

it's just people I like the , I mean one , I like the community aspect , looking for that . But two and I asked the question of your kickball team have all ages , because I something that at least I feel like I've learned through some of my experiences more maybe last five to ten years and for me it was through AIDS life cycle , so charity bike ride San Francisco to LA , but for me in that experience I felt like I connected to people . You know my age , but also like 18 to 25 , but also like 55 , 70 , 80 plus , and I'm getting such like multi-generational mix to see so many different experiences and I think through that I'm just , I mean , I would , I would just stress for everybody . I think that's really important to be able to remind yourself . Like you know , in this I have my own experience , but you can learn so much from other people , uh , with their own experiences , and you get that through different ages especially .

Speaker 4 40:09

And you can have your preferences on grinder . You know twink or jock or whatever , but don't let that dictate your community .

Speaker 1 40:21

Yeah , yeah , for sure you should try's life cycle with uh ryan .

Speaker 2 40:25

He took a break this year , but next year you're gonna be bad oh , I'm big spokesperson for I've done it for four or rides , uh , but it's a charity bike ride from san francisco to la on a bike yeah , we've got , uh , over 2 000 people do it . We raise money for the la lgbt center in san francisco aids foundation and it's just been the most like welcoming , inviting . This is the kind of stuff I want ever I would love to .

Speaker 1 40:54

Yeah , it's so cool . I have not done the bike ride , I've been the um roadie at the end of the ride and we we're so grateful for you it sets up the charcuterie board with a lot of cards with all the boys the hot , sweaty boys and have their first show Ready to eat yeah .

Speaker 3 41:12

Pool .

Speaker 1 41:12

Yeah , it's always been a lot of fun . And then they do , we do a pool party at the Ondas West Hollywood . It's really fun Every year and everybody's been so welcoming .

Speaker 2 41:28

Fun and it's really fun every year and everybody's been so welcoming fun and some it's also yeah , it has high temperatures .

Speaker 1 41:31

I also told matt that we have to get him into charity season this year in dallas , since we have a lot of charity here . Yeah , you get to put on your tuxedo , which I have to write a check for five thousand . You don't have to write a check for $5,000 ? You don't have to write a check , unless you want to get something at the silent auction like a big house .

Speaker 2 41:47

Maybe , I don't know . Does your company sponsor anything like that , or maybe they already do ?

Speaker 4 41:55

No , I am the company here , so no , they don't .

Speaker 1 41:59

Black Tie Dinner in particular . You can start that exactly . Yeah , black tie dinner makes more money for the human rights campaign , which is our flagship , like uh , charity for the gay community , than any other charity , any other charity event in the country . And that's here in dallas , texas , which every time somebody's like dallas texas is like a bunch of people that hate gays , so like , please , we're all gay here .

Speaker 4 42:21

So I have that question , like we're in Texas . Hey like the most , one of the most conservative . Maybe North Dakota is more conservative and I don't feel any homophobia going on in Dallas .

Speaker 3 42:40

And you'll also see that we have one of the tightest close community ever .

Speaker 4 42:45

But also not . You're not being attacked . Nope . In other words , conservative , a conservative viewpoint , a conservative culture doesn't mean they're racist or homophobic Exactly .

Speaker 3 42:57

Cause they want us to come into Highland park and , you know , step the neighborhood up even higher than what it already is .

Speaker 4 43:03

We know gays turn shit around .

Speaker 3 43:05

We don't mess the neighborhood up .

Speaker 1 43:07

No , actually we went in down to Bishop Arts and we like made it really super nice down there . That's where all the married gays are . But you know , you're so

Building New Friendships and Support

Speaker 1 43:15

right and every time I'm on TikTok and like making a comment about something , everyone like well , you're a gay from texas , everybody hates you . I'm like actually no , I am more accepted here , quite frankly , than parts of la I'm not gonna lie .

Speaker 2 43:27

Blaine says quite frankly you know it's getting serious that was true .

Speaker 1 43:31

Like if you've been to different parts of la , you know that as a gay man you're probably not really accepted in some communities . I'm just saying it's true . I feel feel very accepted in Dallas . Sure , you go to the rural areas of the state then maybe , but like , for the most part , you can go to any major city in Texas . I think it'd feel very like . Right , it doesn't have to just be Austin . Actually , austin is just more annoying people , quite frankly no-transcript .

Speaker 2 44:28

I think and people that we know feel safe here , yes , in Dallas and in the city , but I just think it's also important to be aware of that identity .

Speaker 4 44:38

That's kind of universal right , I mean .

Speaker 1 44:41

So I don't think that's a text but I'm glad that you pointed that out from your perspective , because I really try to say that about texas . I think a lot of our cities are very open-minded and welcoming , you know , and I look I have friends from all different races and backgrounds , not just being gay , straight or whatever , and I feel like we actually are very welcoming . It's not some like gun toting , racist , homophobic like thing that everybody paints us as . And , like I said , there's other parts of this country that proclaim to be liberal and all I walk around is see a bunch of , like you know , people that you know , quite frankly , would never go and help a homeless person ever . I'm not talking about the west side of santa monica , but I am .

Speaker 1 45:29

You know , a 10 million dollar home that's 2 000 square feet . Yeah , yeah , I'm talking about you and you won't go feed a homeless person down in skid row period . You wouldn't even go to skid row . Give me a freaking break . So I do think we have a good community . And adam's point , it is biotite . Yeah , yeah , I get so mad when people say that about dallas so you're tired .

Speaker 4 45:49

I'm just saying I feel it . I mean I know I need , I know I'm in texas and I I it's a really great gay community I do like it know it's different .

Speaker 1 46:01

I can't wait for you to go to other gay communities , because New York is spread out a little bit . La is very close . They have a strip like we do , right In West Hollywood they have one , obviously , and another place too , but not all of them are like have a strip like we do , and I think that makes it great because we're able to just kind of like whip around , but yeah , and because we're able to just kind of like whip around , um , but yeah , and we're also really close to each other , because even if you live in the suburbs , like ryan , I'm so far away I did actually when I first moved there it's northwest dallas , it's still I stayed within the 635 you live 19 minutes .

Speaker 2 46:51

Yeah , suburbs , I know , no , I , I I moved so when I moved to dallas from california , but I started in , I know , and now it goes a little bit out of the way . But I'm really glad to have like the house and I love hosting and that's great . You know , we've got a good space yeah .

Speaker 4 47:08

It's really now that I'm there like it's not bad and it's a good open space and we've had parties and parties . So my apartment is like right around the corner from the strip and I'm like , oh my God , what did I do ?

Speaker 3 47:15

Like I live around the corner from the strip too . I learned from the strip too and I love it .

Speaker 4 47:18

Well , you're a sly , I've spent too much time there and I just want to mix it up . I like it , but it can't be like it's easy to jump on that . It's a week every week .

Speaker 1 47:30

I'm moved to Uptown by the Crescent where I live . It's just a little bit higher .

Speaker 4 47:35

Just drive over Higher level we can hang out .

Speaker 1 47:38

Yeah , but I'm just saying like , I'll show you my neighborhood and I think you'll like it because it's walkable , like the Strip , but not lower Stringville . You wouldn't want to live there , though . Just saying For your next place , whenever that is Well . Any closing thoughts ?

Speaker 2 47:55

Matt on this Towards the end . This is such a good conversation .

Speaker 1 48:00

I mean it's so good . We could literally do like an 80 part series on this one , but we're gonna leave this for matt's buck and we are super thankful that he let us do that .

Speaker 4 48:09

I love , thank you . At first I was like nervous about wait . How much do I want to talk about ? How much do I want to like , expose , expose .

Speaker 3 48:19

And I'm like you know what if I'm doing it for the right reason , like Wait until you sit at that bar one day and you have you come up to you and say I'm in the closet .

Speaker 2 48:32

And then he's going to be ready to tell his stories .

Speaker 1 48:36

It'll happen .

Speaker 3 48:37

I was in your place . Yeah , I know what you're going through .

Speaker 4 48:40

So I didn't do this to like be congratulated or , you know , act like a hero or anything or courageous at all . It's therapeutic for me to talk about it . Someone have a different perspective , other than living a lie with themselves and their loved ones . I just want to offer that I think it's amazing .

Speaker 1 49:10

That's amazing , that's very brave and that is such a great message that people need to hear and thank you so much for that , even if it's one person finds coffee with gays , listens to this one episode .

Speaker 2 49:22

Hopefully we have a few more than that watch out , but we're not . This is gonna read oh wait wait , dude , like ever .

Speaker 4 49:28

Does everybody know this podcast ?

Speaker 2 49:30

we're so famous .

Speaker 1 49:31

I mean , we're really not but I will say , like there are people that like come up to me that I'm like really you listen to that . I have this okay , and I'll get into some arguments .

Speaker 2 49:44

I don't even know how they listen to it Really , you get into some arguments . No , you know me I love an argument , Especially a few drinks

Closing Thoughts and Resources

Speaker 2 49:52

in about 10 o'clock , or you know like 3 pm on like a Sunday . Or random . Yeah , sunday fun days are another .

Speaker 1 50:02

Again , few resources for anybody . You know eFlag , I think , is an amazing one for families looking for help , and you know newly out gay people , and then also your local LGBTQ center , if you have one in a city , and then the Trevor Project is great as well , and then RAINN , and we'll go ahead and post all these in our uh bios and all of our social media accounts as well for anybody that was a victim of any kind of csa . So also , this has been such a great , amazing episode . Thank you , matt I mean literally like thanks for having me at some point . Yeah , thank you , I'm honored to be here . Thank you . Yeah , we just want to help you tell your story and help anybody that you know can be helped by this , because poof coming at , we all came out at one point and it was hard , and yours is hard . So congratulations and we look forward to your future and cheers to the future and your happiness . Cheers , adam , smile .