Coffee with Gays™: Every Sip Is A Story

Because of Them: Pride Then, Pride Now | Pride Arc Finale | Ep 23

• Blaine LaBron and Reed Rousseau • Season 4 • Episode 23

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🎙️ Because of Them: Pride Then, Pride Now | Pride Finale

New episodes every Thursday | Hosted by Blaine & Reed

This episode is a love letter to the icons who made Pride possible—and a truth check on what it means today.

As Blaine and Reed wrap up the Because of Them arc, they sit down over coffee for a raw, reflective conversation about how far we’ve come as a community—and what still weighs on us. From the evolution of the Pride flag to the commercialization of queer joy, from honoring Bayard Rustin and Marsha P. Johnson to remembering the 49 lives lost at Pulse, this Pride finale blends history, heartbreak, and hope.

We talk about the joy and grief wrapped up in this month, the forgotten voices, and why it matters that we keep telling these stories—even when it’s hard.

🔍 What You’ll Hear

  • Pride vs. Profit: How corporations reshaped Pride—and how we’re taking it back
  • Pulse Nightclub Reflections: Reed’s personal connection to the tragedy, and the grief and grit that followed
  • LGBTQ+ Icons & Unsung Heroes: From drag queens to quiet caregivers, the people who showed up before it was safe
  • The Rainbow Flag’s Legacy: What Gilbert Baker’s original flag stood for—and why every stripe still matters
  • Love Without Labels: A real convo on monogamy, open relationships, and why judgment has no place at Pride

⭐ Key Takeaways

  • Pride started as protest—and it still is.
  • Corporate sponsorship doesn’t make or break our movement.
  • Remembering Pulse reminds us what’s at stake.
  • Flags evolve—because our community does too.
  • Monogamy, polyamory, and everything in between deserve respect.

⏱️ Chapter Breakdown

00:00 — Did That Gay Thing Happen? (game)
 05:51 — Pride’s Shift in Tone
 06:42 — Corporate Influence vs. Grassroots
 14:27 — Reclaiming Pride for Community
 17:30 — How Pride Celebrations Evolved
 20:20 — Unsung Heroes of LGBTQ History
 22:46 — Pulse Nightclub & Collective Grief
 33:46 — The Rainbow Flag’s Story
 42:37 — Legacy of LGBTQ Icons
 44:59 — Drag Culture’s Impact
 48:01 — More History Makers
 50:12 — LGBTQ+ Representation Then & Now
 55:21 — Monogamy vs. Open Love
 1:00:36 — Why Community Still Matters

💬 Keep the Conversation Going

Who made your Pride possible?
 đŸ“Š Email us at dotell@coffeewithgays.com
📲 Follow @coffeewithgays on every platform and @coffeewithgayspod on TikTok and share your story.

Because Pride didn’t start with us—and it sure as hell doesn’t end here.

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Blaine:

Welcome to Coffee with Gaze. I'm Blaine and I'm Reid, and this is the finale to our Pride episode. Actually, and we're titling this one Because of them Remembering the Icons Behind Pride and what Pride Means to Us. Today We've done a three-episode Pride arc and this episode today I would call a love letter to the icons of the people who kind of made Pride and a reminder that kind of we have the next chapter to write in our generation. So what do you think, reed?

Reed:

I support you, Blaine.

Blaine:

How was your Pride? You didn't do anything, did you? No as we discussed. I'm going to cut you off. I went to Sitges Pride in Barcelona.

Reed:

What you went to Sitges, sitges.

Blaine:

Sitges. It's a gay beach town in Barcelona. If you haven't been, I totally recommend it. It's one of the coolest places in Spain and it's just 20 minutes outside of Barcelona and I think the coolest thing about it and I'm just going to be real controversial here I really don't like people from Barcelona. I'm sorry, this is like my second time in Barcelona. I'm just no. I love the rest of Spain. I love Madrid. I could move there in a heartbeat. It's like a metropolitan New York. But you know Barcelona doesn't do it for me. But Sitges love it and I think the reason I like it is because there aren't really people from Barcelona in Sitges. It's all like the rest of Europe.

Reed:

So what's wrong with the people of Barcelona?

Blaine:

They're snobby.

Reed:

I meant to ask hey Blaine, welcome back from Spain, how was your trip?

Blaine:

Thank you. I'm a little tan and very excited about it. It was a great time. It was my friend's 40th birthday. We had a fabulous time. But, yeah, love Stitches. Pride Parade was absolutely incredible, super fun. It wasn't as packed as I thought it would be, but I think that was great.

Reed:

So yeah, now my question did you guys already know that the Pride stuff was going on? So that's why you strategically planned.

Blaine:

We put ourselves in that situation.

Reed:

Got it, got it yeah.

Blaine:

Yeah, you would not have done that. I have a feeling.

Reed:

I mean not that I would. I would have definitely gone to Spain. So next time you guys are going to Spain, yes, I'll hitch a ride, but I probably would not have been a part of the pride stuff now still not a pride fan no, it's just not me, sorry, it's just, I'm not a pride guy.

Blaine:

I also think we have to get a little bit of housekeeping out of the way for Coffee with K's. You said something um in a previous episode that you want to apologize for.

Reed:

Yes, I'd like to apologize for using the term polygamy. Again, no judgment to any relationship out there. My apologies for using the term polygamy.

Blaine:

That was really controversial. People really had a lot to say on social about that one.

Reed:

I like to think that I did address it when it did happen, right yeah?

Blaine:

you did, but you're just Mr Monogamous, and that's just all there is to it.

Reed:

Well, let me also say I am no saint, I'm you know we know that.

Blaine:

We definitely know your number isn't 20.

Reed:

It's probably way lower. Um sorry, but yes I, it's probably way lower, it's higher, but yes, yeah, I'm no judgment. I support everybody. It's all about love.

Blaine:

All about love. Well, speaking of you know, we have been running our first series sets of series, so to speak, on our Coffee with Gay social channels. The first one was Because of them looking back on the lives that made Pride possible, Something that I've been doing a little bit solo, but I enjoyed it a lot, Really looking at the gay icon. So we're going to talk about that this episode. But before we start and dive in to the whole shebang, I wanted to do a game, because we haven't done a game in like forever. I don't think you and I have just done a game.

Reed:

Oh, shit, a game.

Blaine:

No, I'm actually really super excited about this one and it's titled Did that Gay Thing Actually Happen? And I'm going to give you four multiple choice questions, okay, and only one of the options is real, and three things are just kind of made up and so you're going to have to guess which one is real and which one isn't so the only one of the four things is real.

Blaine:

All right, shoot. Okay, hit me. Multiple choice, okay, ready, I'm ready. Read which one of these actually happened. In the 1990s, a group of drag queens in texas legally adopted each other to create a chosen family tree. That's option A. B a San Francisco lesbian bar once accepted live chickens as a cover charge. C a trans activist once threw a high heel at a senator during a hearing on marriage equality. And then Marsha P Johnson modeled for Andy Warhol.

Reed:

I think it's going to be C or D.

Blaine:

You have to pick one, you can't just pick two.

Reed:

I live in the gray area, Blaine, no there's no gray area in Multiple Choice.

Blaine:

Did you take the?

Reed:

SAT. I actually didn't, okay, well, there's no gray areas.

Blaine:

Let's go with C? C. That is wrong. Marsha P Johnson did indeed model for Andy Warhol. That bitch p johnson did indeed model for andy warhol. That which it's actually amazing, it's um and I'll put photos of it, ladies and gentlemen series in the 1970s where she was glan glammed up and it was like portraits of drag queens and transgender individuals. Okay, which one of these was a real moment in gay history? Uh, one, a group of of queer nuns chain themselves to a cathedral altar to protest the Pope. Okay. In 1980s, a Chicago gay bar hosted Ronald Reagan look-alike contest where the winner was a lesbian in full drag. C Bayard Rustin helped write speeches for MLK and advised Coretta Scott King on how to throw a proper cocktail party. D in 1977, protesters threw cream pies in Anita Bryan's face on live television.

Reed:

I'm going to go with C.

Blaine:

You know what? It was? A partial. That was a partial. That's a little tricky of me. It's actually D Anita Bryan got full pied on live TV in 1997. Do you know who Anita Bryan was? The crazy religious lunatic?

Reed:

Yeah, I look up her recipes online all the time.

Blaine:

No, you don't. Oh my God, this video was so crazy. She was just spewing hate on live TV and then literally some guy just came up and just full on put a pie in her face. Yeah, southern Baptist, crazy lady. And then literally some guy just came up and just full on put a pie in her face. Yeah, southern Baptist, crazy lady. Which one of these is actually real A the original rainbow flag design included glitter sewn into the fabric for gay sparkle power. A gay couple. B A gay couple in 1960s, north Carolina got arrested for cohabitating in matching robes. C in 1983, lesbians in Boston started a pirate radio station called Dyke Airwaves. And. D a group of lesbians formed a coalition called the Blood Sisters to generate blood during the AIDS crisis.

Reed:

It's either B or D.

Blaine:

But you can't exist in the gray area, Reed. We already talked about it. Rules the rules. Pick B, D.

Reed:

I feel like B you threw in the robes.

Blaine:

Really. Clearly, you didn't watch, because of them, our series, so it was D. It is D. Yeah, the Blood Sisters were actually real and that was their name and they had banners and everything and it actually was really one of my favorite episodes that I recorded. So, okay, okay. Last question which of these is a real gay historical event? A 19th century drag queen so that'd be 1800s, just so you know got arrested for hosting illegal drag balls and demanded a presidential pardon. In 1982, lesbians in Portland formed a motorcycle gang that only allowed members who could deadlift their own weight In C. In 1979, a gay man in Ohio tried to legally marry himself so he could get health insurance. And then D RuPaul once ran for the mayor of San Francisco as a joke campaign called Wigs and Taxes.

Reed:

I'm going to go with D.

Blaine:

That is wrong. I think you've gotten all of these wrong. It is actually a 19th century drag queen got arrested for hosting illegal drag balls and demanded a presidential pardon. We will talk about him again. If you had watched Because of them, our series, you would know that read.

Reed:

I'm just so a part of it that I didn't think that I needed to watch it.

Blaine:

You just didn't need to watch and didn't have to understand our history. Well good, it'll be a good learning experience for you. So this year 2025 Pride Very different, I think, from previous Prides, probably over the last decade Did you do any stateside Pride celebrating?

Blaine:

No, I didn't. I heard about Dallas's pride, but here's the deal. You know, pride used to be in our local gay neighborhoods and then somehow I feel like a bunch of straight people that do all the permitting and stuff decided that we can no longer be in our gay neighborhoods and now we had to go to awful places. So downtown LA is host LA pride instead of West Hollywood and it's basically in Chinatown, which makes zero sense. In Dallas, we have an unfair park, which is this depressing place where it's only cool during the state fair.

Reed:

Wait a minute. I thought I thought WeHo was West Hollywood and I thought that was the cool part. I've never been to California.

Blaine:

It is. They have WeHo Pride now, which is like a week before, and it's kind of like what we're doing here in Dallas, where we have our own gay pride parade in September, like we used to do, but the official parades, like the official prides and festivals are now in these like far off areas that aren't in our gay neighborhoods. It's ridiculous.

Blaine:

I mean we have like rainbow plastered streets in Cedar Springs, yeah, but we used to have our parade like on those streets and now they have it at Fair Park, which is like a depressing concrete jungle. It's because they said that there was too much traffic and that it was dangerous, and it's just bullshit.

Reed:

Well, I mean think about it this way, not to take side of the city planner or whomever is in charge of this, but have other events also been moved to, like Fair Park?

Blaine:

No, just the state fair.

Reed:

Oh, so you're telling me that they're having full on parades of other.

Blaine:

Well, I don't even know of any other parades that we have.

Reed:

Okay, and that's my point.

Blaine:

I mean it's ridiculous. And you know they did the same thing in LA and they've done it all over the place. Basically, here's my take the straights are trying to kick us out of our neighborhoods and we're done with it. And that brings me into the intro to our episode.

Blaine:

I'm so excited about Pride this year. You know why? Why, I feel like we finally took our pride back this year because it used to be like all these corporate sponsors. It was like IBM would change their stupid logo. Ibm really Like, why would you have like an IBM logo? That's a pride logo, that's a stupid, it's the most boring company in the world. And you're going to have a Pride logo Dumb. And then you have Target that had, like I don't know, these huge displays of Pride merchandise which just kept getting more and more outrageous every single year. Last year they were like targeting children caused a huge uproar. This year it was like a tiny little, like nothing thing. And you know what? I'm fine with it. I'm absolutely fine with it.

Reed:

You seem very fine with it. You seem kind of angry about it.

Blaine:

I am angry about it Because look, here's the deal too Like a lot of straight people move into our gay neighborhoods. They want to take over. You go to West Hollywood, for example, where I also used to live, and what happens? Vanderpump puts in that stupid tom tom restaurant and a bunch of straight people go and have their dates there it's not tom tom, it's called like it's called tom tom.

Blaine:

It was called pump pumps closed. Now why it's she closed it? Who knows, because it wasn't popular anymore. I don't know. But tom tom is still open. And guess who goes there? Not gay people, only freaking straight people. You go there and there's a ton of straight people on dates. What guy is taking a girl to the gay neighborhood for a date? I do not get it.

Reed:

Do you think that, like there are many situations, circumstances that could be happening here, right, the guy could be gay and that could be his girl, best friend, A right the guy could? Be gay and that could be his girl best friend a b? Um. The girl said babe take me to.

Blaine:

You know, whatever, they love that Vanderpump show and that's why they want to do it. And it's just gross to me like we, we don't have a lot of spaces, you know. It's not like we take up a lot of space, like the straights take up all space, and it's like the girls that bring their bachelorette parties to our bar too. Like I'm over that too, I am. Don't you expect me to come entertain you at our gay bar, especially if you don't have a gay friend with you.

Reed:

So Blaine dislikes bachelorette parties? No, as much as I dislike the rainbow flag.

Blaine:

Look, I don't mind a bachelorette party, as long as you're one respectful and two. Ideally, if you go to a gay bar, have a gay friend with you. We are not here to entertain you. Does that make sense?

Reed:

I mean, I'm pretty entertaining sometimes when I'm drinking. I'm pretty entertaining, I don't care.

Blaine:

I know the gays are very entertaining, so I get the lure and the draw, but it's just gotten a little ridiculous.

Reed:

Why do we have to segregate?

Blaine:

I'll tell you why. It's because a lot of like what has happened with Pride, for example. So over the last 10 years, we saw this like huge, inclusive move that all these companies were doing. The reality of the situation is, they took over Pride, they started sponsoring it and because they started sponsoring it, it was all of a sudden had become kid friendly. Like what? Like Pride has never been a kid friendly event. It's always guys dancing in Speedos and doing whatever they want. Like now should it be lewd? I don't think so, but at the same time, like we should be able to have fun. This is not a child's event, and the fact that I still see people on social media saying that Pride Festival should be some kind of child event is just ridiculous to me. It's basically like saying like oh, we should have five-year-olds at Coachella.

Reed:

Like that's dumb. I see your point and I understand your frustration. However, I think it's more than just that. I think you should take a breather on the bachelorette parties. They're bringing in money, they're bringing in revenue. They're bringing in income.

Blaine:

Usually they expect me to buy them drinks and that's not happening. One just not, and two I just think they're usually rude and disrespectful and they scream in your face and they expect you to entertain them, and I'm not your entertainment as a gay man. That's my point.

Reed:

I feel like you could easily get screamed in the face by an upset gay man. But yes, I support you.

Blaine:

But you know what? It's our gay bar and it's meant for gay people.

Blaine:

Period, okay, and you know what it's meant for gay people Period Okay, and you know what Flies are welcome, but it's just gotten to the point where straight people make decisions for our gay community and that's where I draw the line. That's happened with Pride, with this corporate sponsorship thing, with things like pronouns and DEI and whatever else, and I'm just freaking sick of it. It's our community and it's not all these straight people that get involved that know nothing about it. They don't know our experience, they don't know what we go through and they pretend to and they pretend to care about us once a year. Who really cares?

Reed:

You really think that they just pretend to care about us? Yeah?

Blaine:

1000%. I mean again.

Reed:

You think?

Blaine:

the CEO. Stop. You think the CEO of IBM cares about you because his logo is rainbow.

Reed:

I mean no. So let me. Let me put it to you this way the one stupid thing that the CEO of Chick-fil-A did, for example, was announce that he was against gay marriage, for example, against gay marriage, for example. Now, for every one of you that have gotten upset that the CEO of Chick-fil-A has said this, you know outwardly, publicly, whatever. Have you ever thought to yourself the numerous Fortune 500 companies that you probably provide revenue to by purchasing their products? Did you ever think for a second that maybe their CEO also feels the same way?

Blaine:

Yeah, for sure, and they've been pandering this whole time with this pride ridiculousness and guess what? This is the first year I didn't go on every website and have a rainbow logo and I'm fine with it.

Reed:

Yeah, because the rainbow logo is tacky as fuck.

Blaine:

By the way, leave us the hell alone. It's our community. That's my point. Yeah, because the rainbow logo is tacky as fuck. 99% of US companies pulled back on their pride sponsorships this year, and I think the biggest one was the Boise Parade. They and Utah. They lost like $400,000.

Reed:

You said Boise Utah.

Blaine:

No Boise Idaho.

Reed:

And then the Salt.

Blaine:

Lake City, Utah pride too. They each lost like 400 grand in corporate sponsorships. And then New York pride lost something like $750,000 in corporate sponsorships. But the reality is, here's the deal. Pride used to be fun because it was basically the gay bars that would put the floats together. We didn't need Disney and T-Mobile and freaking whoever.

Reed:

Okay, first of all, let me stop you for a second.

Blaine:

Wait, and some stupid like bank card like Capital One putting together a float. Okay, well, did you ever think that maybe these corporations and some stupid like bank card like Capital One?

Reed:

putting together a float. Okay Well, did you ever think that maybe these corporations started this?

Blaine:

God, you're pissing me off.

Reed:

I'm just saying Do you not think that some group of gay people didn't complain about this, and that's why the corporations.

Blaine:

No, no, no, I have been in the boardroom on this one. I know exactly what it is. It's pandering and it's because, after gay marriage was legalized, the entire country started shifting towards accepting gay people then, and that's when all of this started. By the way, it started with the white house lighting up in pride colors, having a pride flag, which was great. It was a monumental experience, you know, a monumental thing that happened in our history. I'm fine with that. But then it turned into this pandering year after year after year. Then it turned into like just corporate greed of like let's just sell all the pride merch we can for Walmart or Target. Have you seen that Walmart merch? It's tacky AF. No gay person is wearing it.

Reed:

That's not true. I see a lot of gay dudes wearing rainbow shit.

Blaine:

Okay, first of all, most of our Pride merch is pretty tacky unless it's done by a non-corporate person like somebody cool on Etsy or something like that. We have Pride merch, not us Coffee with Gays. I'm saying people that wear cool pride stuff like that, stuff's found like somewhere else there is there cool pride stuff well, I can tell you it's definitely not a target in walmart. Okay, that's for sure. It's not and it never should be well, I don't recall.

Reed:

And again, this is just. This is from mr anti-pride, not anti-pride, but just not. You don't recall. And again, this is just. This is from Mr Anti-pride, not anti-pride, but just not.

Blaine:

You don't have to be anti-pride. You're the one that wanted to do this pride.

Reed:

Oh well, I was just saying, cause it is pride month, you know. Oh, let's, let's do some ride, but um, I don pre-Pulse nightclub.

Blaine:

It really started well, 2016. Yeah, but that was also gay marriage too. It all happened at the same time.

Reed:

Was gay marriage before or after the shooting? The shooting was June 12th. Are you looking that up right now?

Blaine:

Of course I am.

Reed:

Yep, you tapped those fingers. Producer.

Blaine:

It was actually 2015, which is what I thought, so that happened a year later. But my point is, that's when the momentum started, and then it just got like really out of.

Reed:

I think I, honest to God, think it blew up because as, as a resident Orlando resident, when pulse nightclub happened I had never seen. So, prime example, the Sunday morning, uh, after the pole shooting. So the shooting occurred June 12th, saturday night, sunday morning, chick-fil-a that was right down the street from Pulse Nightclub opened up and made a bunch of food and brought it over to all the victims and the families and everything else.

Blaine:

Oh, that was nice of them.

Reed:

It gives me goosebumps to this day, so that's why I get so upset whenever people are all anti-Chick-fil-A, like I was there when they opened up for polls.

Blaine:

By the way, I'm going to get like dude. This is a dirty little secret. You know who eats the most Chick-fil-A? Gay people.

Reed:

I mean literally.

Blaine:

Gay people work at Chick-fil-A. Gay men eat so much Chick-fil-A and they're really secret about it. It's like a thing.

Reed:

I'm not being secret like I love Chick-fil-A sauce look, I'll eat Chick-fil-A too.

Blaine:

Like you can have whatever stance you want as an owner of a company, I don't care. Again, like once again, not everyone has to accept everything, like I'm so sick of this. I'm so sick of this, yeah yeah. I'm so sick of the pandering. I'm so sick of the performative bullshit and the reality is I just don't you just want to live your life? Yeah sometimes, yeah, and you know what? I want to go to a pride parade and not have a bunch of straight people marching in.

Reed:

You lost me. You lost me and I want to go to a Pride parade. You know what Reed I?

Blaine:

would like to take you to a fun Pride parade, as we've started reclaiming it. Will you come to the Dallas Cedar Springs Pride parade in September? No, you should. We do a fabulous thing with my hairstylist. He has the salon right on Cedar Springs and we do a whole spread and everything and we go out to the street and then we watch all the floats.

Reed:

It's a lot of fun and you have drinks and food and everything and you have a bathroom If I wanted to stare at hot dudes in, like leather halters or whatever.

Blaine:

They're not even leather halters, more like g-strings.

Reed:

Let me just be honest. I have a Twitter account. Okay, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm solid.

Blaine:

Oh, what's your dirty twitter? I'm not telling you my dirty twitter, oh my god, do we have to search for that?

Reed:

holy shit I'm probably stupid enough to have it the same as all my other handles. But whatever, we're not gonna go there.

Blaine:

Oh my god that is gonna totally be a clip for sure. Um, everyone search for reed's dirty twitter. Um, I didn't even know it existed, by the way. Um, we learned so much about each other here, reid, I didn't know, I know, this is what happens.

Reed:

Did you drug my wine? My wine is.

Blaine:

I know it's a little wine tonight because we're actually filming at night, because somebody was a little late today, but look, at the end of the day, pride was never theirs is my thing. It was always about us. It was always about our people and it's ours. And it started with resistance and not like freaking rainbow cupcakes and silly little t-shirts at Target.

Reed:

Yes, yes, blaine, I understand what you're saying. However, for those of you heterosexual individuals out there that like to support your gay community, you are more than welcome to no problem. We accept you just like you accept us.

Blaine:

I have plenty of straight friends that accept us and that accept me as a gay man, and I'm super thankful for them. Don't get me wrong. Like I love my straight friends that are allies, I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about the people that just don't care, that pander to the gay community, that pander during Pride and that at the end of the day, like you know, I don't know it's a performative act. That's really what it is.

Reed:

And I'm just kind of over it.

Blaine:

So I'm totally okay with the bullshit sponsorships being done. Maybe our Prides will now just be a little more homespun, without all the crazy floats. I remember one year I was at a pride parade and Disney did a float in West Hollywood and it like shot confetti like every like five feet, which I thought was very like bad for the environment. There was confetti all over Santa Monica Boulevard and I was just like what has this become Like? It used to just be kind of like fun little bar floats and now we've turned into like Disney, like full on, like animatronics with confetti.

Reed:

And, by the way, I would love to see you can get me at a at a pride parade when there is a Hallmark channel float at the parade. Sign me up for that pride parade, cause I would love to see a Hallmark channel float.

Blaine:

Well, I'm sure they have one at the Thanksgiving Day Parade with Macy's, and that's where they should stay oh my goodness yeah, and you know what I want.

Blaine:

I want, like Jock Bar and Roundup and, you know, yeehaw and all that kind of gym bar, whatever you want to call them exactly. So, by the way, welcome to having our pride back, enjoy it, all that kind of gym bar, whatever you want to call them Exactly. So, by the way, welcome to having our pride back, enjoy it. It's what it used to be and let's get rid of the streets out of our freaking business.

Reed:

We're not going to get rid of the streets.

Blaine:

No, I'm just saying out of our business. That's all I'm saying.

Reed:

Sure, sure, sure, yeah no.

Blaine:

I just I don't. You don't have to come to our parade, you don't have to, like you know, critique us because guys are in jockstraps. It's just, it's a ridiculous thing to me.

Reed:

That's all I'm saying. How about? We don't even need a parade. We're good. We're good guys, we can celebrate. We listen us. As gays, we celebrate a lot, a lot. Don't you think that we celebrate on a daily, nightly basis?

Blaine:

I just think you're missing the point and that was the point of our Because of them series, and we'll just get to the next part of this show Because we are clearly going to agree to disagree.

Reed:

Yes.

Blaine:

Are we going to talk about Pulse? Yes, we are going to talk about Pulse, for sure. So we've basically been spending Pride talking about kind of unsung heroes this year, because I think what really has hit me looking at kind of this Gen Z generation of kids that are gay, is they just really don't understand the people that came before us, and it really really drives me crazy. It's almost like they don't understand our history and like what gay people have really gotten gone through in order to get the rights that we have. And, by the way, it's not just gay people, like so many different minority groups have fought a good fight to get rights, and I think a lot of it has been, yes, protesting or yes, marching, and gay pride kind of came from that too, you know, post Stonewall riots. But a lot of it, too, is just about being a decent, honorable human and getting people to just accept you after a period of time.

Blaine:

Right, I really wanted to kind of explore a lot of these kind of people that kind of were from our history and talk about it. I personally love history. I mean, part of the reason I started this podcast thing is because I love researching things and talking about it Because you were alive back then. So it makes sense and you know, I just I really thought it was important to kind of like dig back and talk about some of these people from the past. I mean, a lot of people don't remember, even like Matthew Shepard who died in 1998. I mean, when we talk about violence against the gay community, I mean even I absolutely remember Matthew Shepard.

Reed:

I remember Ellen DeGeneres getting on. She flew out to um, god, uh, what is it called? I remember Ellen DeGeneres flying out to Laramie, getting on stage crying and saying this isn't why I came out. I didn't want this is I didn't want this to happen go ahead please finish her oh no, I mean, I just to me.

Blaine:

It just seems like I think that I hear a lot of people talk today about being super afraid to live in this country and just with things going on in legislation let's not even legislation, let's say executive orders or whatever. And you know there's 20 something year old kids and obviously I remember Matthew Shepard as well. I mean he was tied to a fence. He was, you know, 20 years old, tied to a fence, beaten I should say, and left dead. He didn't die until like five days later. But he was in the cold for 18 hours and he did die five days later and it was just absolutely a tragic moment kind of in our history.

Reed:

He was also HIV positive.

Blaine:

Was he? I actually didn't know.

Reed:

Yes, if you watch the movie that they made about it, the police officer actually that renders aid to him at the time she's not wearing gloves and it's a big concern. That's a part of the movie or scene in the movie. It's a big concern that you know she gets his blood on her and doesn't know what to do at that point. Oh really.

Blaine:

See, I'm not surprised at all about that. I mean, there's so much fear back then and it's such a different world today than what it used to have. I mean, I said this I actually was just in, obviously, spain and I met somebody from the quote unquote, new Middle East and you know he's moving to Europe. Because he said you can lose your job, you can lose your life, even be taken away in a car. You know if people really did find out.

Blaine:

And as he's gotten older in his like late thirties, super attractive guy, he's gotten older in his like late thirties, super attractive guy, he's wealthy, really accomplished. People are asking like why are you in your late thirties not married? And it's like this really bizarre thing. It really hearkens back to the days of what these people went through and we just don't live in that world anymore. And I think, like the people that went through a lot of these trials and tribulations, I think are worth talking about and it's almost like we've forgotten about them, in my opinion, and that's what I guess irritates me more than anything.

Reed:

First of all, very handsome Spain guy that Blaine met.

Blaine:

A Middle Eastern. I won't say what country, but one of them.

Reed:

Or all. There's a large number of the population, the gay population, that is in their late 30s and not married Some.

Blaine:

My point is if you live in certain countries, yes, I know, and you have that classification.

Blaine:

you have a mark on your back. That is not the case here in the United States today, but not that long ago, in 1998, which you know is like 20, but 27 years ago, obviously, matthew Shepard was killed and tied to a fence and beaten to death. So we've made a lot of progress in just 28 years that you can feel as safe as you can Like. If something like that happened today I mean we would it would be like completely shocking.

Reed:

For sure, for sure. I mean I coined the phrase first world problems. I mean we don't have many problems here in the US.

Blaine:

I agree, I think people have just become so I don't know. I think they become so attuned to just focusing on little things. They forget the big picture, they forget how far we've come. They forget like, again, they've forgotten who came before us and how much hard work went into it. I mean, I've been a part of this gay rights movement for 20 years and you know, yeah, there's still work to do, but like I think we're in a pretty good place. I mean, I was in Portugal last year. You know, guys, they're like still like talk about headless torsos, like you get on Grindr, like you won't even see a face pic period.

Reed:

I don't know, what that means. Shut up, I've never had a grinder.

Blaine:

Okay, well, basically nobody's showing their face right, and I will say I went on a date with a guy Like this, yeah, basically yeah, and with his head cut off, yeah. And I went on a date with a guy I mean he was so nervous, he was sweating, it was. He was just like we went to like the most secluded place. It's just not very comfortable in other parts of the world, and that's Portugal. So I think we just forget how good we have it and look, I know there's other states where it's not as comfortable. Obviously, we live in Texas. I've been to the deep South, but I've seen huge. My grandfather, though, lives in East Texas. I mean, the acceptance I feel there, compared to what it was like I don't know 10 years ago, is night and day different.

Reed:

Right. I mean I came out when I was 22. I'm 39 at the moment, so it's come a long way. It has come a very long way just in that short period of time time. And coming from somebody who was born and raised in South Florida, for example, Dallas alone houses more gay bars and gay institutions than where I grew up in South Florida, like Fort Lauderdale, Miami area. You know what I mean. It's kind of shocking.

Blaine:

Yeah, it's true. Yeah, there's just there was a huge cost for the gay community being visible, in my opinion, and that's kind of like this section for me is like the people that we've covered really in our Because of them series. To recap it's basically Harvey Milk and Gilbert Baker who did the Pride Flag. Your favorite thing? We can talk a little bit about that.

Reed:

No, it's okay.

Blaine:

And then also Matthewthew shepherd. But then, like also, we had things like the pulse nightclub.

Reed:

You and I both have um pulse nightclub was actually my first ever gay bar. That was my first ever gay bar when I was 21, about to turn 22, and, um, I shortly came out after I went to Pulse for the first time, but it really was a safe space. I know that sounds really cliche to say, but for me, when I was in my early 20s and terrified of coming out of the closet, it was a safe space. It was a safe space. It was a safe space. Everybody was everybody every bartender, every manager, the door guy, the drag queens and gosh I think it was Sassy, which I'm not familiar with all of the drag queens, but Sassy and there was another one that we're outside smoking a cigarette and when I I ended up getting a job there as a door guy.

Blaine:

Oh my God, do you wear a door guy at polls?

Reed:

Yes, I like to say bouncer, but we all don't really look like a bouncer yeah.

Reed:

I know I was a door guy. I checked IDs and then I swept up cigarette butts at the end of the night. But when I was sweeping up cigarette butts they were outside smoking a cigarette and they were just the friendliest, kindest people to me. And when pulse, when the pole shooting happened, myself and a group of my friends that had used to frequent pulse hadn't been to pulse in quite some time like we. The only time that we would have gone to pulse at that point in time probably would have been for a special occasion or a birthday. But we still knew bartenders and we were so close to, you know, the managers and bartenders that were in Pulse when the shooting happened. And it was. It was terrifying. Now. Now, just to say how terrifying it was and how sad it was.

Reed:

Waking up the morning after Pulse or the few days after Pulse nightclub shooting, seeing Chick-fil-A open, for example, on a Sunday, which I know is, you know, may not be a big deal to you guys, but to see Chick-fil-A open on a Sunday just to help out this, you know, group of victims that are gay, the gay community, for example, victims that are gay, the gay community, for example then fast forward two, three, four a week later, every single storefront had a rainbow flag, had a rainbow support.

Reed:

Like, if you go to Orlando and the area that I lived in, which is the area kind of near polls, you can't not see a rainbow or some sort of LGBTQ support in one of the windows. It's all over and it. To go on Facebook after that and see the amount of love outpouring from France to you know, all across the country it was it really makes you think to yourself like oh, wow, you know, like we really have come a long way. It's sad that it took 49 people to pass away, for example, but yeah, we have come a very long way. I'm sorry. Please tell your story.

Blaine:

I mean that was a great thing. I was just going to explain. Like we have 49 people died. I mean it happened on a Latin night at Pulse. The gunman, omar Mateen, pledged allegiance to ISIS during the attack, but it wasn't like really clarified that it was a direct connection. I don't think we ever got an answer as to what his real motive was.

Reed:

I think the wife had questioned his sexuality. I think, that's what it might have been, too as well. I mean, there's all speculation out there.

Blaine:

But it was also really sad because the bar was very tight and then there was so much confusion that people were like trampling each other. It was just awful.

Reed:

So the way the bar is set up which I think this is on multiple documentaries these days or on YouTube the way the bar is set up, there is technically only one entrance in. If you were to look for an emergency exit out the back, that is the entrance that he walked through. He walked through what's behind the bar, the patio. That's the only other emergency entrance that you could have exited out of. And I think that the way he came in he sprayed bullets and kind of like herded everyone into a corner.

Blaine:

Yeah, that's exactly what happened. Yeah, I had a really dear friend that had a place in Orlando at the time so I went to Orlando all the time. We would go to every time I was there I was doing business with him. We did business together, and every time we would go he would take me straight, him and his wife take me to Pulse. They were friends with the owners and we would just get the best treatment ever. They would give us like Pulse. They were friends with the owners and we would just get the best treatment ever. They would give us like bottle service. They didn't even do bottle service at Pulse.

Reed:

No, if any of you've ever been to Pulse, it was not a bottle service kind of place.

Blaine:

We would roll up and they would like be like oh, we have to do bottle service for them, which was a little embarrassing, but you know.

Reed:

Did you go there when they had a two-way mirror in the bathroom, like you're at the urinal peeing and you could see?

Blaine:

oh yeah, yep, yep, yep, yeah, yeah, um, it was always fun. Everybody was always so much. Yeah, I have to say too, the orlando gay scene, especially back then, was like super fun too. I mean like parliament house was great, I mean I really had a great time. But I do remember it was just so devastating. Actually, my business partner back then he was on the board of the One Pulse Foundation as well, which has given him a ton of money and it's amazing to your point, which is how much the community really came around everybody after that event happened, because it was really devastating as and just to say as much as I dislike the rainbow flag to drive from my, from my house, just like two miles up the street and pass, every single business had a rainbow flag or a rainbow heart in their window showing support like you couldn't.

Reed:

I think still to this if you drive through that area in Orlando, it's nothing but like rainbow everything.

Blaine:

That is true. And do you even know what the rainbow flag stands for, Reed? You have this like deep hatred of this rainbow flag and I just want to like talk about it. I know I did a video on it.

Reed:

I feel like it's just too much. It's too much. Come up with a cool rainbow logo.

Blaine:

No, the original is great. Well, the original actually had more colors than what it does today, because Are you kidding me?

Reed:

I thought we added like four colors.

Blaine:

Oh no, no, that's called the progress flag, which we'll go ahead and put a thing in there. That is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about. I'm talking about, um, the six color flag that we have today. That's just really the rainbow flag, like, kind of like red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple red, orange, yellow, yes, violet actually.

Blaine:

But yes, we talked about gilbert baker, who's the one, harvey milk, who was the gay politician who was like murdered um by a conservative um, but but Harvey Milk was the one who had Gilbert Baker design the flag and we did it because of them, for that as well, and it was like really fascinating. But originally it had hot pink and turquoise as well. The only reason they got rid of those two colors was because there was fabric shortages. It wasn't like some kind of weird political thing, so. But I will say hot pink stood for sex and turquoise stood for magic and art. So I'm kind of like, I'm kind of okay with those two going, because I don't think that was a value of the community. So, the way it stands today, I'm just going to tell you what the colors mean. I'm going to put the flag up in the video too.

Reed:

Pins and needles over here.

Blaine:

Okay, so red is for life, orange is for life, orange is for healing, yellow is for sunlight, green is for nature, blue is for serenity and violet is for spirit. Remember when we had spirit day? Did you ever do spirit day?

Reed:

Or were you not gay then? First of all, I've been gay since the day I was born.

Blaine:

Yeah, but you know what I mean Like out. We had like spirit day at some point. I forgot what that was. I think it was like a Trevor Project thing or It'll Get Better thing.

Reed:

I actually like Spirit Day. So what year was Trevor Project?

Blaine:

I mean it's Better Project. I think did Spirit Day, but I think that was when I was in college because I wore purple, but that's. Violet is Spirit, but we're left with those colors and here's my take on the pride flag is my point.

Reed:

Back up. Sorry, what's the updated pride flag? That's it.

Blaine:

Red, orange. So red is for life, orange is for healing, yellow is for sunlight, green is for nature, blue is for serenity and violet is for spirit. Keep going, because apparently oh, and then what has happened since this? This was like what we settled on right After they kind of ran out of the colors.

Reed:

And just to be clear, I have not disliked the rainbow flag prior to its update. Both, okay. Okay, just to be clear.

Blaine:

So what ended up happening is really really, during 2000 and during the George Floyd thing, everybody thought that the flag wasn't inclusive, so then we added black and brown to.

Reed:

That to stop you. You said during 2000.

Blaine:

I'm sorry, 2020. I guess it was 2021. Sorry, dating myself Black and brown. To include biopic individuals in our community. So that got added, and then that wasn't enough. So then we added a trans stripes to it, so for the our community.

Blaine:

So that got added, and then that wasn't enough. So then we added a trans stripes to it, so for the trans communities, who are basically putting their flag into it, and then, on top of that, then the intersex people weren't done, so then they put a circle on the middle of it for the intersex and now, if you really want to get crazy, there's two feathers for two spirit. So you know, the reality of the situation is this thing can just get completely out of control by and we have, like I don't know, like each community, like asexuals, bears, leather people, like they all have a flag, which is fine, they all have a flag, but like it doesn't all have to be on one flag. The reality of the situation is the original pride flag is perfect as it is because it's a rainbow, it's a spectrum, it's a prism and it's inclusive of everybody. It never had to do with color, gender, any of these things. It just was inclusive of our community.

Reed:

It was all walks of the rainbow.

Blaine:

you know all colors of the rainbow, whatever, and I personally believe that really, and I will say, like, either straight people or people pandering to straight people even created this whole thing with the progress flag and all these different flags and adding things to them, because it was a bunch of people wanting, feeling like they weren't included, wanting to be included, and then people like creating something to sell to them, and it just drives me crazy.

Reed:

So you're, so you're anti-progression is what you're saying.

Blaine:

Oh, I'm so anti. Anything but the six color pride flag like it won't happen, except for this one. This is my america american flag pride pin, so I'll do that so?

Reed:

so you're saying that the american flag needed to needed to be pride themed?

Blaine:

no, it doesn't. It doesn't. I just I just happened to do this Um and again like. There's this whole conversation this year of like should, um, our federal buildings have, uh, pride flags? People feel literally attacked because the pride flag isn't flying over federal buildings. Look, here's the deal. You and I are both Americans, we live in the United States and we're US citizens. Guess what? We are represented by the American flag. At the end of the day, I don't think our federal buildings have to fly a pride flag in order to be accepted as an American. It should be completely separate. And, by the way, I can't even keep up with what our pride flag has become because it's so disgusting where we've gone with it, adding all these different elements. The federal government can't keep up with it if I can't and the rest of us can't.

Reed:

They can't keep up with the alphabet that we've stolen Exactly. You know, like we already have so many letters of the alphabet, do we really need to take every color and shade?

Blaine:

No, we don't. We can just be happy with the fact that it's a prism and it's inclusive of everybody that's why I'm saying you should just change the rainbow like change it.

Reed:

It's a tacky ass flag anyway, and I mean that prior to its update I think you should watch her, because I mean sorry pre-its update what?

Blaine:

I think you oh pre-its update, so you don't like the new update is what you're saying no, I don't either.

Reed:

Yeah, no, no, I didn't like it before it got updated and I especially don't like it now. I think I specified that, coming from a person that does not like the rainbow, like, does not a fan of the rainbow flag and anything else, to see so much support for the LGBTQ community driving down the street, it did it. It kind of it's gut-wrenching, it makes you feel emotional. It's happy, you know, to see so many people that you never thought I mean, these are people again, because it stands for something I, and I appreciate that I just don't like the rainbow.

Reed:

I just don't like the rainbow. I just don't like the rainbow flag. This is me. I think it's tacky as fuck.

Blaine:

Wow. Well, the reality is it stands for a lot of people that came before you.

Reed:

And I support them. Just don't expect me to wear one.

Blaine:

You don't have to. I mean you don't have to, but I also think you're probably feeling a lot of this because it has just been, in my opinion, bastardized over the last like especially 10 to 15 years.

Reed:

It's just tacky in my opinion, but okay.

Blaine:

I mean I don't know. I really like took a deep dive into kind of a lot of historical figures that you know I was inspired by in our community, that I didn't even really know about, um, necessarily Um. So, like, one of my favorites was Baird Rustin, um he's a bear what. Baird Rustin.

Reed:

I'm listening.

Blaine:

Okay, so the? This is the crazy thing about him. He was a black, openly gay man and he was the chief organizer for the 1963 March on Washington for Martin Luther King.

Reed:

Very cool. He died August 24th 1987.

Blaine:

Yes, the crazy thing about this story for me and what inspired me about his story and he spoke at that rally too but people didn't even televise it because he was gay and you know he never stopped fighting, no matter what. And he, you know he planned the security for Dr King and his speeches. I mean he was his right hand but you know he never really graduated above a deputy, like he was kind of always like at the side because in that community and at that time he wasn't really allowed to be super high level because of his sexuality. I mean that just like blows my mind today. Right, like you can be like the architect of, like the greatest civil rights movement in the world and yet still be basically a second-class citizen I mean this all goes back to the first episode we recorded showing cary grant.

Reed:

Yeah, he couldn't be openly gay yeah, exactly, I mean catherine hepburn.

Blaine:

None of these people could be openly gay, so it doesn't surprise me I mean he did live, did live openly gay, and I mean this is obviously in the sixties and he was fighting for, you know, rights for African Americans, um, but then again he was like a brand, like somehow also a second class citizen because he was, you know, a homosexual as well. It's just such a powerful story to me, it's just like amazing, and that's why I'm like we have so many people that, to me, the pride flag represents them, because they were the ones who really showed up and fought for the right to be us today.

Reed:

Now remember, we are saying this like I will just throw out the elephant in the room. We are two white males, so for us to say, hey, what are you complaining about? You know, we have it so easy.

Blaine:

We have it so easy to other people, ethnic backgrounds look, I mean, I actually profiled quite a few um black, gay, um historical figures. I mean marcia p johnson for one. Obviously she's like, the most famous of all. Um most likely was killed uh, for her advocacy at the end of the day, um, but she was definitely the, you know, probably the one that everybody thinks about when they think about, like the gay civil rights movement. I would say Um, but she was uh, she was uh um, she was uh trans and she actually one of the things I loved is she really founded an organization to help trans youth and uh transition. Things I loved is she really founded an organization to help trans youth and transition. She was one of the people at the Stonewall riots that actually like fought, and you know that's where these pride parades started from, by the way, reed is Stonewall it was a raided bar in New York and Chelsea.

Blaine:

Have you ever been?

Reed:

No no.

Blaine:

It's still there. It's so cool.

Reed:

I mean, I believe it. It's cool. I thought that I actually thought it was in London, but it's in New York. Yes, I fully accept my ignorance when it comes to this, but it's okay.

Blaine:

I think those are the people that you kind of have to honor. I agree, you know there was another woman that I profiled is Nicole Ramirez, who was a drag queen as well, Also worked with Marsha, and you know I'm sorry she didn't work with Marsha. Nicole Ramirez is another one, and she's a Chicago drag queen. A lot of these drag queens have literally changed the shape of our history today.

Reed:

Right, it's ironic that you say that because a movie that I remember growing up on my parents rented it from blockbuster and we watched it over and over and over I know right um, it was called too long foo. Thanks for everything, julie newmar, now the have you seen it? No are you serious? We're talking. Patrick swayze, john leguizamo and wesley snipes are the three main characters, and they're all drag queens that are that are making their way from new york to la for some big drag competition. So is this like?

Blaine:

Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, but US-based.

Reed:

I don't know.

Blaine:

You don't know that movie.

Reed:

Yeah, no, but I will say Stockard Channing was in it, like really, like Blythe Danner, really big-name actors were in this movie and honestly, as a kid I was like, oh my God, john Leguizizamo, so he's actually a girl mom, like I was so stupid. But if you watch this movie as a drag queen he looks legit. But um, I remember watching those growing up and my family was so funny that they were like subtly telling me that they were accepting and I was oblivious to it, you know yeah, it's, um.

Blaine:

I mean, the fight is just like amazing to me, um, and but none of those people are drag queens, you know?

Reed:

that's another, oh, that's another rant for another day they're not, but that's but for them to play these. So I did learn that patrick swayze, his mom, was a showgirl, either a showgirl or something, and he spent a lot of time, uh, with her in the dressing rooms like with all these women getting ready and whatnot, and I guess he had a lot. He ended up meeting a lot of gay people or a lot of drag queens at some point in time and that's why he showed his support. Wesley Snipes 1995, like dressing up in drag, to be in a movie.

Blaine:

I guess that is kind of like pretty revolutionary.

Reed:

John Leguizamo like.

Blaine:

Well, I have to tell you one of the, I think, coolest things that I learned during this series speaking of biopic gay individuals was was William Dorsey Swan. You know the sisters of the perpetual indulgence in our community. They're the. They're the guys that dress up like the nuns. It's a little irreverent, but it's a thing.

Reed:

No.

Blaine:

Oh, they do a lot for the community and they're always raising money and stuff. Anyway, one of them popped up in my comments and was like you really have to profile William Dorsey Swan. I was like who's William Dorsey Swan Do you know? I can guarantee you not one person probably watching any of this knows.

Reed:

That's not necessarily true. We have some very intelligent listeners true.

Blaine:

Well, he was born into slavery in maryland in 1858 and then he was emancipated and he was the first drag queen ever and he looked, looks fabulous in these photos and they're like the real, like 1890s, like photos black and white, like everything?

Blaine:

yeah, that's why that question that you asked earlier it was I was like no way yeah no, and he was an emancipated slave, moved to washington dc and he would have these like fabulous drag balls with like candlelight music, and then he would have other emancipated slaves there as well and he got arrested like a ton uh for it, because you weren't allowed to be lewd and dressed as a woman back then. Um, but man, he made a really good woman, I gotta say, like he was tall and gorgeous and uh at least in the pictures, when I can tell and uh really just had these fancy parties. But he did ask for a pardon from Theodore Roosevelt, I think. Is that right? I'm almost positive that's correct. But oh, no, sorry, that's not right. Grover Cleveland, that's what it is. Grover Cleveland, who was probably our worst US president ever. He didn't give him one, by the way.

Reed:

I'm listening.

Blaine:

But anyway, he was the first drag queen speaking of, and I mean that was in the 1890s, that's when it all kind of started. I guess I wonder how he came up with that idea. Like that's the first RuPaul. Do you watch RuPaul's Drag Race?

Reed:

No, I don't.

Blaine:

I don't have you ever.

Reed:

Yeah, I've watched it, but I think it's funny. In my opinion it's comedy.

Blaine:

I do like RuPaul, I don't really watch it anymore. I used to a lot more, but I don't really do that much more.

Reed:

I mean, rupaul has made a dynasty for herself himself herself.

Blaine:

I think it's. It's himself. I guess herself. My name is Rue.

Reed:

Rue.

Blaine:

Yeah, I guess he's always Rue, nevermind Um. But yeah, I don't know.

Reed:

RuPaul is in too long food, by the way.

Blaine:

Oh, so there you go. Then it's all fine If RuPaul's in it. It's If RuPaul's in it.

Reed:

Circa 1995. You have to watch it. I'm telling you, it's a great movie.

Blaine:

Well, I will definitely watch it, and you need to watch Priscilla Queen of the Desert. I'll consider it. It's about these drag queens that go across Australia on a bus.

Reed:

Oh, no, yeah, I've heard about that, yeah, yeah.

Blaine:

It's actually really good.

Reed:

Yeah, what year was it?

Blaine:

They're going to Perth.

Reed:

I think it's in the 90s, so like around the same time. By the way, this is like a necessary part of gay culture.

Blaine:

Read what Watching Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.

Reed:

Listen man. I was watching Tu Wong Fu at age 10.

Blaine:

Okay, like come on. Okay, excuse me while I go get your gay card, because you definitely earned it.

Reed:

Thank you. Thank you, I watched First Wives Club. I mean, there were no.

Blaine:

Okay, first Wives Club, by the way, is the most underrated best movie of all time, in my opinion. Agreed, yeah, you know what my ultimate dream is, and I just have to divert from our very serious discussion. Sure, my ultimate dream for Halloween is to do First Wives Club and to be skinny enough to do Goldie Hawn. That won't ever happen. I'll probably have to be Diane Keaton, that's okay.

Reed:

You mean Bette Midler?

Blaine:

Not Bette Midler. I don't want to be Bette Midler, I'd be Diane Keaton or Goldie Hawn, but I just really want to be Goldie Hawn because I feel like I'm her.

Reed:

You're just going to be an actress and have all the feelings.

Blaine:

I mean I am, I am an actress and I do have all the feelings and I have all the filler too.

Reed:

Yeah, I mean, that's the reality.

Blaine:

I love that movie. Have you gotten filler done? Yes, I totally do. I have calcium filler here. I don't have lip filler, but then I do Botox. But yeah, I have calcium filler in my cheeks. It pulls them back like this Just to kind of get rid of these, like soften these lines here. Well, reed, you're not quite my age yet, but once you are you'll understand. Dude, I'll be 40 in a month. No, not 40 in a month. What are?

Reed:

you going to do for your birthday? Nothing. It's August 1st Nothing.

Blaine:

I mean, that doesn't mean you shouldn't do nothing. Oh my God, that's right around when Gay Pride is in Dallas.

Reed:

Just kidding God. No, I will not get on a float. I will not. I'm not celebrating my 40th birthday.

Blaine:

You won't get on a float in a jockstrap no.

Reed:

I don't know why I questioned that for so much wine but it is.

Blaine:

It is on his dirty twitter, so you can find it there no, no, no.

Reed:

My dirty twitter is just a bunch of nevermind.

Blaine:

It's nothing oh see, dirty Twitter is just a bunch of Never mind it's nothing. Oh, see the real tease coming out about Reed and his dirty Twitter and his more than 20 people that he's hooked up with. See, it always comes out.

Reed:

I've definitely hooked up with more than 20 people. I've not had sex with more than 20 people. I'd venture to say much less.

Blaine:

I'm like contemplating exactly what you're saying on this one, but uh, okay, I don't believe you, but okay like hooked up, with hooked up and have sex I mean, how can I go to spain and almost like, do more than you?

Reed:

and it's not no yes, blaine, yes, it's okay. It is okay that you went to spain for a week and you've had sex with more people.

Blaine:

I didn't say that.

Reed:

Adam alone. Adam alone went on a cruise, for fuck's sake, and one night. I know that's just gross, don't say it 30 dudes in one night, no offense, adam, love you, love you Adam it's the same.

Blaine:

That's a little much for me.

Reed:

I couldn't do that because we all know Adam was just. That's a little much for me.

Blaine:

I couldn't do that Because we all know Adam was just. Well, that's not the pride that I was saying that we fought for. But okay, you know, but to each their own, really to each their own, I mean it's.

Reed:

For sure, for sure.

Blaine:

Yeah.

Reed:

It's just not your thing, or really mine. Now that that night with Ab, that's that's fucking relationship. Anarchy, for like that's anarchy. That's just straight up anarchy.

Blaine:

What? Having sex with 30 people on one night.

Reed:

And one yeah.

Blaine:

Oh yeah, that is total relationship anarchy for sure.

Reed:

That's not relationship, that's just. That's straight anarchy, yeah.

Blaine:

Yeah, I would agree with that.

Reed:

Yeah, I love you, adam, I love you, I do. Yeah, I love you.

Blaine:

I do. Yeah, well, you just left. Throwing him under the bus is what I think.

Reed:

No, I'm sorry, I did not mean to throw Adam under the bus. Fuck 30 people in one night. He said it himself, he admitted it.

Blaine:

Well, I do think we get a lot of flack for this stuff, because as we talk about, like our rights and like I don't know what we fought for, it's like did we really fight for that?

Reed:

I'm like yeah, I mean, that's one of the things we've fought for. If you want to have sex with 30 people in a night, yeah, you should go right ahead. To each their own. To each their own, Absolutely. I very much agree with you on that. I just to further explain my reasoning behind feeling the way I do about people that talk shit about monogamous people. I have personally experienced a judgment for not wanting to open up a relationship that I had, and again, was it from close friend of mine who always so his long-term relationship.

Reed:

My barber's long-term relationship had ended very dramatically, like we all had to kind of help him move out of the place and it was all because his boyfriend at the time had cheated on him. Well, he started dating somebody else, fast forward and come to find out one night we were shooting pools somewhere, I think, and out of nowhere he was talking to his boyfriend and said, oh yeah, if you want to bring that guy home, you can. And I personally was kind of like offended. I was like I don't want to say his name, but let's call him John.

Blaine:

I was like John. That's not a really fun nickname, by the way. You can come up with better ones. I have good nicknames.

Reed:

His name is very Asian.

Blaine:

Why can't you just come up with like a, like a quality or something funny?

Reed:

Snoopy, we'll say Snoopy God, you're bad at this, I know.

Reed:

I really am. Uh, so I was like Uh, so I was like dude, I thought that we were on the same page when it came to monogamy. Like did you and Kyle open up your relationship? And he looked at me and he's like Reed, you're just so closed minded. It's stupid, it's ridiculous how closed minded you are. And he started judging me because I've I've always been monogamous. So I mean, that was that's what I'm saying about judgmental people against us monogamous people. Like again, I don't care if you're opening up your relationship.

Reed:

That particular circumstance or situation was with a close friend of mine who had always led me to believe that he believed in monogamy. Right, well, the moment that I asked him, just as his buddy, I was like so have you and Kyle started opening up your relationship? He immediately turned around and was like Reed, you're just so close minded. I can't like why wouldn't you open up your relationship? It's stupid not to. I'm like now you're trying to make me feel stupid for believing in monogamy. When the ultimately, the question was did you start opening up your relationship? I just want to know now, because I want to know if I need to get three gifts for Christmas. Two gifts Like that was a dick comment, wow.

Blaine:

Well, I think we need to have a whole episode on throuples and monogamy.

Reed:

I have close friends that live in Denver that are throuples.

Blaine:

And I think maybe have someone else that you were telling me about today that we can actually interview, which I think would be really fun.

Reed:

Oh yeah.

Blaine:

That is straight.

Reed:

Yes, she is, she's not though. Straight bye, bisexual, has two baby daddies. Baby, yeah, baby guys, beautiful children. Baby, yeah, baby guys, beautiful children. They've made beautiful children together, but, yeah, I would probably describe them more as swingers. Is that what you'd describe them as?

Blaine:

Yeah, I would call them swingers.

Reed:

Don't want to be wrong about what I'm saying.

Blaine:

You're so nervous about it.

Reed:

No, I mean, listen, I'm not out to offend anybody, like I've never been one to offend anybody. I I do accept all walks of life, I accept everyone. I just don't think it's fair for me to get judged because I want to be in a monogamous relationship. I think that's kind of hypocritical, straight up hypocritical. To judge me for wanting to be in a monogamous relationship just because you aren't in a monogamous relationship. Does that make sense?

Blaine:

yeah, it does. I think the reality of the situation is is our community is very diverse and everybody has their own little thing, and that's what this whole fight was for for everybody to just live their own damn lives the way they wanted to, and that's what all these people fought for. That we've been talking about this whole month, right.

Reed:

In my opinion, I think we're getting a little carried away with, but that's my personal opinion.

Blaine:

No, but look, Pride is our community is just about whatever works for you right, so you can be right or die. Monogamous. Some are open, some are poly and some are still figuring it out.

Reed:

Okay, you said poly and I got in trouble for saying that.

Blaine:

No, this is the way you said it. You said it in a very judgmental way. I'm not saying it in a judgmental way.

Reed:

I said the entire word. Instead of just saying poly, I said polygamy. You do know that poly is short for polygamy, right, like think?

Blaine:

I think it was just taken a different way fuck, I don't think I'm gonna get in trouble for it, by the way. But look, the reality of the situation is, is, I think, that, like I said, but look, this whole community has evolved so much and everybody has their own thing, and that makes them happy.

Reed:

And guess what?

Blaine:

In the United States, we're allowed to live that way Whatever makes us happy. That's what's great.

Reed:

Right? No, I agree with you, I do. I see a lot of relationships. So, like the young lady that you were talking about me bringing on, she has her and her partner, who's a male. They have a beautiful daughter. They have a beautiful well, she has two children. She has an older daughter that she had with a previous man and now they have a younger daughter that they both had together, if that makes any sense. But they're not married and they're perfectly in love to a degree and they make it work. I'm not saying that relationships have to be conventional or I don't know. Not all relationships have to be monogamous. I get it Like you can love more than one person, it's just not me.

Blaine:

Who you love, Reed.

Reed:

Absolutely, absolutely.

Blaine:

We'll find you a man that you can be monogamous with.

Reed:

I am not desperate, but in the meantime.

Blaine:

I'm just saying that this whole fight has been for us to do whatever the hell we want.

Reed:

If you're not listen, guys, if you're not out there doing whatever the hell you fucking want now, then you're not living. I agree. Cheers to that.

Blaine:

And, by the way, cheers to all of the people that really came before us, that gave us the ability to live and love who we want. Yes, thank you. Thank you this month. And then we had our friend Matt, who you know was forced out of the closet. He was a great story and reliving that was really traumatic because that was like a year ago. We recorded that one, finally launched it and then really just all these Because of them series you know Bayard, marsha, stormy, the lesbian nurses who gave their blood, the blood sisters.

Reed:

Matthew Shepard. Matthew Shepard who gave their blood, the Blood Sisters Matthew Shepard. Matthew Shepard Chose to go into a chose. To move back to Laramie Wyoming, just to you know, walk into a gay bar or not a gay bar, I'm sorry, a bar A bar, yeah, and yeah, I mean it's just, it's just amazing.

Blaine:

There's just so many people that you can name and I just hope that people really take stock and, I don't know, think about the community and all these people who fought for our rights, because I think we're in a pretty good place today where you can have discussions about whatever stupid. What was it again? What did they call it? What, what was this relationship type thing?

Reed:

All right. So it's an article that Blaine, I'm sure, will post a link for, but it's called Relationship Anarchy. Do you want to?

Blaine:

No, we're going to do a whole thing on relationship types later. It's too much to get into. It's very deep Relationship.

Reed:

Anarchy is all.

Blaine:

We're wrapping up this.

Reed:

You can go to our story.

Blaine:

You know what you can do. You can do a read between the lines reads new series for Coffee with Gays, because Blaine's been doing all the Coffee with Gays series. So how about you do a whole read between the lines on Relationship Anarchy, and I would love to watch it. It would be anarchy, if I was doing it. Yes, you can live any way you want and, honestly, that's why I'm thankful to be living in the time that we're living now, because, god, it was hard to be gay back then.

Reed:

Really it was I mean, how would you know? Oh wait, you were there, you were right, I was there.

Blaine:

I feel like I've lived it in really researching everyone's history, but, yeah, I am glad that we're living in the day that we are living in now. So that's just my thought, I agree. What are your closing thoughts on pride, as we finally end this pride month?

Reed:

God it was, it was, it was so great. So not celebrating pride? Well, no, I'm very, I listen, I'm. I'm a non ashamed, openly gay man.

Blaine:

So pride month all for it, and I think that you can be very prideful about that, because it's all these people that we talked about this month that have kind of paved the way for you to not be ashamed.

Reed:

For sure, for sure, very grateful.

Blaine:

Yeah, otherwise you'd be like, probably sulking in a gay bar on Melrose, you know, getting arrested in a raid.

Reed:

I would definitely be arrested, but yeah.

Blaine:

Yeah, me too, for sure, Like for sure, yeah, yeah, I don't know. I'm very thankful. Like I said, I feel like we have our pride back this year. I feel like it's been returned to us. Let's have some pride in our community and thank everyone that's really come before us and, by the way, there's a ton of non-famous people and non-civil rights leaders that have also, like, fought the good fight that are no longer with us that, like you know, we have to thank for this.

Reed:

For sure. We appreciate all everyone, anyone that's supportive of one another, Be kind.

Blaine:

I just hope people really realize that what we have today is actually a pretty good thing and let's just be a little bit more thankful for it and live our lives free and open the way we can, the best way we can.

Reed:

Put a little love in your heart.

Blaine:

Well, in that case, I'm going to end it there. I need more wine. I just want to say happy pride and thanks to everyone for making Coffee with Gaze. You know what it is. Follow for more content like this. We have a lot of guests coming up in future shows. We'll be going live every well, not live, but we'll be dropping new episodes every Thursday, getting better at it. Our socials are heating up because we have been just posting like crazy.

Reed:

And when he says we, he means he Me, blaine. Yes, blaine has been posting like crazy.

Blaine:

I have gotten so good at it. I'm just like boom. So follow Coffee with Gaze. It's debatable.

Blaine:

TikTok's the only different one's coffee with gays pod. Uh, because I started a completely new account, um, for many reasons, but, um, pretty sure we got shadow banned on the old one, oops, but uh, all the other ones are just at coffee with gays, so follow us there and uh, yeah, let's make this thing a success. We're excited to and we'd also like to hear, like, what you want to hear us talk about as well for sure, please, please, reach out and tell us if you have questions.

Reed:

If you guys want us to get a message out there for you, please, by all means, we're happy to do so.

Blaine:

I mean half of my because of them series was people's suggestions on people that were from the gay rights movement that I didn't even know existed, and I was like where are you getting these comments? On our social media, which you don't check.

Reed:

Yeah, guys, I'm sorry, I'm really bad at the social media, but for sure Blaine gets it.

Blaine:

And I will send him the messages especially if you ask for where his naughty Twitter is.

Reed:

It's yeah, sure yeah.

Blaine:

I will. I will definitely do it, and Reid will also be posting videos soon, because I can't do it all myself.

Reed:

Right, yes, yes, yes, what Blaine said.

Blaine:

Well, thank you, Reid, for this episode of Coffee with Gaze. Thank you to everyone for listening and I will say this pride didn't start with us and it sure as hell doesn't end here, oh for sure. Cheers, Cheers, Reed.

Reed:

Bye guys.

Blaine:

Have a good one.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Adam Bailey

Co-host
Head Shot

Blaine LaBron

Co-host
Head Shot

Ryan Hines

Co-host