Out Here Tryna Survive
This podcast is a trauma-informed, hope-oriented, safe space. It is a warm hug of solidarity for Black women 35+. It is a celebration of our resilience thus far & our determination to not only survive but THRIVE.
Join me, Grace Sandra, a Mama, author, advocate/activist, storyteller, for some good ole self-love shenanigans.
We are braver than we believe✨
Out Here Tryna Survive
Ep 24: I agree with Tracee Ellis Ross & Shannon Sharpe is WHY!
When Tracy Ellis Ross mentioned dating younger men, she faced an immediate wave of criticism and bizarre comparisons to Shannon Sharp – a man facing multiple sexual assault allegations. This glaring double standard perfectly illustrates the misogynoir Black women face when simply discussing their dating preferences.
As a 48-year-old Black woman navigating modern dating, I deeply relate to Tracy's perspective. The reluctance many of us feel toward dating older men isn't arbitrary – it's rooted in consistent experiences with men who remain entrenched in outdated values and toxic masculinity. These older men often expect traditional gender roles while lacking the emotional intelligence that healthy relationships require. Meanwhile, they believe their age and financial stability alone should attract partners, without recognizing that respect, progressive values, and emotional maturity have become the new currency in modern relationships.
Younger generations of men tend to challenge traditional gender norms, support social justice causes, and demonstrate greater emotional awareness. They're more likely to be allies to marginalized communities and understand the importance of mutual respect in relationships. This isn't about physical appearance or shallow preferences – it's about finding partners whose fundamental values align with our own. The stark reality is that many men over 50 were socialized in eras where women were expected to be submissive and obedient, creating relationship dynamics that feel stifling and unhealthy to independent women today.
Dating in 2025 presents unique challenges, especially for Black women navigating spaces not designed with us in mind. But there's freedom in recognizing we deserve partners who enhance rather than diminish our lives – regardless of their age. Whatever your dating preferences, the most important thing is staying true to your values and choosing relationships that bring joy, growth, and mutual respect. After all, we're still figuring out this modern dating landscape together, and there's no single right path for everyone.
How do you navigate age differences in your relationships? Do you find generational values impact your dating choices?
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Not them comparing Shannon Sharp to Tracy Ellis Ross. Dear Lord Jesus, help us all, good grief. Today we're going to talk about another area where Misogynoir just presents its ugly little head, because they just completely took everything Tracy said right the hell out of context, added some Misogynoir at astonishing levels and then had the nerve to compare her to Shannon Sharp, the man who has like two, maybe three essay cases out on him like y'all, come on, be so fucking for real, be so fucking for real as a woman who has dated, younger dated and or messed around with. Let me just clarify that, because when I talk about dating, I mean basically in the talking phase, getting to know someone you're hanging out, but that's different from being in an exclusive, committed relationship and it's also different than just, you know, kind of hanging around and having fun. Those are three wildly different categories for me. I have hung around and have fun with younger men.
Speaker 1:So yeah, today I want to talk about this whole thing with Tracy Ellis Ross and her comments about being a 52 year old who dates younger men, which is what she said. She did not clarify the age at which she dates. We can only assume that when she says younger men, it means younger than her. It could be someone who was born in 1976. Like myself, who's 48. It could be someone who was born in 1970, who's 40. Like myself, who's 48. It could be someone who was born in 1970, who's 40. It could be somebody who is 30, like she never once said that she dates 19 year olds. The fact that she's getting compared to Shannon Sharp is so sad to me and I really am not going to get too much into Shannon Sharp because it's just ridiculous, but mostly just as a jumping off point for the way that Tracy got compared to him because of what he's going through right now. But just this dynamic of dating older and younger and, as black women, like what are we to do, especially black women in my age range I'm I'm really in Tracy Ellis's age range because I'm 48. She's only four years older than me. She's 52. We're right there. Tracy and I could date younger, down 10 15 years and above us, up 10 15 years, and still wind up in the same, you know, kind of category of generation of men. So I kind of really relate with her and I really, really, really related to her statements and I want to talk about that and I really loathe that we don't embrace nuance when we're talking about the difference between older men dating younger women and younger women. And sorry, an older woman dating younger men, because off, jump, off, jump y'all.
Speaker 1:We know that when older men date younger women, it is often predatory Often. And also that whole issue that men of all ages a certain percent of them that are troubled tend to like to enjoy girls who are younger than them 15 year old boys liking 11 year old girls, 18 year old boys liking 12 year old girls, 50 year old men liking 16 year old girls. We're not gonna pretend like that elephant is not in the room with us. The elephant is in the room with us. The percentage of men and you notice, I'm not saying not all, I'm not saying all men because it's really not and I really know that for sure it's not all men but the percentage of men who like to prey upon and be predatory towards younger women and younger girls is quite high.
Speaker 1:There's a reason why a legal age was declared for women. You can't touch her legally until she's 18. Why do y'all think that law came into place? Just ask yourself that. Why did that law come into place? Because so many men were trying to take advantage of. And you know there's whole laws in other countries about how old a girl is old enough to be married Because, as y'all know, child marriage is a thing in other countries a despicable, horrible, terrible thing. We cannot ignore that when we have this conversation and act like it's the same when older women date younger men. Okay, we just we not fun to do that. So anyway, that's part of it.
Speaker 1:The other thing that I want to talk about in general is what she said about why she doesn't like to date older men, and I wanted to talk about that too, because I have not dated an older man. I dated one man because I've been out here dating in these dating streets. Recently I dated a man who was I forgot how old he was. He's a little bit older. He was either 49 or 50 or 51 or 52. He was like right above me. I'm gonna have to ask him because we're still friends, but really that's it. Everyone else has been younger. I've been on dating apps and I did for a while set my age range to 35 to 55. And that's in the range of me being 45 to now. I'm not a dating apps right now, but like when I was on them, I was willing to go as low as 35 and willing to go as high as 55 and just found myself having a lot of issues with the older men in general.
Speaker 1:Well, also, you know, if we're talking about dating apps, just as a super side note, y'all know that on dating apps, the men who are older on dating apps are, you know, in the nicest way possible, it's really like the bottom of the barrel, because men who have the kind of things that a well-established woman in my age range would want in a man, they don't probably, I'm assuming, tend to be on dating apps. Now, if you've met an older man who embodied all of this and you met on a dating app, actually comment below and let me know. Okay, let me know, says, let me know which app he was on. Okay, because sometimes I look at these older men on dating apps and I'm like you got to be kidding me. Like you can't even take a good picture, like please learn how to find someone to mentor you on the correct angle, cause y'all, y'all, they got.
Speaker 1:Okay, for those of you who are listening and not watching, you know they got the camera at their kneecaps, they taking a picture and all you can see is like there are three double chins. I have a double chin. Look, and all you can see is like there are three double chins. I have a double chin. Look y'all, I have a double chin. Do y'all see me taking pictures from below? No, you take them up here. You take them up here so you can't see the double chin. Okay, that's how you take a picture.
Speaker 1:These older men have not even gotten insight into how to take a picture correctly so that we can actually think, okay, he is attractive. And if they can't do that correctly on a dating app, are they dateable? And I promise you y'all I'm not shallow at all, but I'm just using that as and I really honestly and truly try to have an openness for things that some women might not even have an openness to like I'm okay with short kings. I don't set my height limit to six feet. I don't, because I've met so many men under six feet who are really good, cool guys. So I'm not shallow. I don't declare they have to make six figures, they have to be over six feet tall. They have to have perfectly white, straight teeth, like. I don't even do all of that shit. I really do think there are so many good men who just don't look and fit the part that a lot of women are looking for. So I'm not saying that from a shallow place, I'm saying that as an example, like, if they can't figure out some small things, just know they're not figuring out the bigger things either. So, yeah, I haven't dated older men, but that's not why I want to go into the real reasons why. That's just a small little example.
Speaker 1:I want to talk about some of the gender dynamics in general that are preventing women like myself and, let me state, younger women in general too from wanting to date older men, because more and more younger women are moving away from that older man dynamic, even though those older men got money, and that's a new thing. I want to discuss that as well, and I also want to talk about what do we, as black women, need to do, moving forward. For those of us who are out here single in these dating slums, not even these dating streets, we're not even out here in these dating streets. We are out here in the dating slums. We are slumming it in 2025. Okay, slumming it. It's so hard. It is so hard out here. It's hard to date as a. It's hard to be single in 2025. And he's dating streets. But here's. Here's one thing that I will say I feel encouraged by.
Speaker 1:I just saw one of my favorite podcasts is diary of a CEO podcast. I will link the episode below. But I just saw a recent episode from the behavioral scientist I forgot her name. She just wrote a book called how to die alone. I'll put it right here and she did an interview with I forgot his name Is his name steven on diary ceo and he was talking about you know why is dating so hard right now?
Speaker 1:And she brought up how the whole idea of modern dating is just like you know, as young as as recently as from the 1890s, and dating apps in general are really only like we're really only 10 years into this whole dating app world. And she was just like. So if you feel like you're kind of bouncing around, you can't figure it out, you're not making good matches. It's a really hard thing to do. She was like we're really only 10 years into figuring it out and in some way, just have grace for yourself, because it's not a perfect science. I don't know that if, if you're single and that's comforting to you like it was to me. Just take heart, it's not you, we're all just trying to figure this out.
Speaker 1:So first let's talk about the reluctance of many of us to date older men, and why so? Tracy Ellis Ross, she literally said on Michelle Obama's new podcast with her brother which is so cute, by the way, I've only seen like two or three episodes. It's called IMO, which is also so cute in my opinion. I just think it's adorable. Anyway, she said on Michelle Obama's podcast that she's finding that she doesn't like to date older men because a lot of them are really seeped in toxic masculinity. Now, this is something I literally said in my last episode, because my last episode I talked about a recent cougaring dating situation with someone who was much younger than me and I literally was talking about this whole idea of why I don't date men who are over 50. So go check it out. But one of the reasons that I said is because men over 50 don't tend to be as progressive Like.
Speaker 1:One thing that drives me crazy these days in dating is I just really don't want to date anyone who has any little teeny tiny speck of homophobia or transphobia. I really just want to date an emotionally mature man who can say, even if they say, I don't necessarily agree with my lifestyle, but that's not my business, that's their life. I'm not gay, I'm not trans, but I support them to go be their own person. That's not even ideal for me. The ideal person would say, yeah, I'm an ally, I'm an ally to the gays and to the trans folks. Let's be allies together. Like let's protect the most vulnerable people in our society. Like that's what I would love. Like if I met a man who was just like let's be an ally together, boo, I'd be like oh my god, I'm in love. I really have bonded really, really quickly, because that's a high value for me personally.
Speaker 1:For me, I would love to meet a gay, trans, you know LGBTQIA plus ally. That would be lovely. But I'm finding that when I'm meeting, the older a man gets, the less likely he is to even be accepting of gay and trans folks. The older he gets, the more he's not just an ally, he's an enemy. He's literally an enemy to the gay, trans, lgbtqia plus family in general. And I look at them like you got to be fucking kidding me, right, you got to be fucking kidding me Like you're really fucking kidding me, like. You're going to look at me, someone who is obviously an advocate, someone who's obviously part of a marginalized community, as a black woman, you gonna look at me and have the nerve to talk poorly about a marginalized people group whose only desire it is to live in peace and mind that goddamn fucking business like that's what you're going to do with your one precious little wasted life is talk poorly about people who want nothing more than to live freely, bet, bet, anyway, that's just one thing.
Speaker 1:So if you can imagine, when you meet people which, by the way, if you're here and you're not an ally or a friend to, or if you're an enemy to, the LGBTQIA plus people, I would just invite you to unfollow me. Unfollow me, don't watch my podcast unless you're here to learn something. That's not really what I talk about, because I'm not part of the community, but I am an ally. So just let me make that clear because I just I don't fuck with y'all. I really don't fuck with people who cannot find grace and mercy in their heart to love people who are not like them. It really just frustrates me to no fucking end, no end.
Speaker 1:So if you, if I, meet a man who's hateful of marginalized communities, it's very easy for me to deduce that they also will have some misogynoir in their heart. Misogynoir is the hatred of Black women. If you're alive and breathing in America, you probably know that there's a good fair amount of Black American men who really do not like Black women and they will date us, they will fuck us, they'll marry us. They don't like, they'll marry us. They don't like us, baby, they don't like us. It's not a far leap. If someone can't respect a marginalized community, they're not going to respect you. If they don't have empathy for marginalized communities, they're probably not going to have empathy for you.
Speaker 1:As a black woman, I could be tainted because my black ass ex-husband hid his hatred of black women, his homophobia and his transphobia from me until after we got married. He had a lot of shit for me until after we got married and then the full extent of his hate and dislike for all of those categories came out. Somebody might be like Grace. You might be a little, slightly bit, traumatized. I might be. I might be. But I also do know that people who tend to have empathy for hurting people, even hurting animals, that empathy tends to extend out to other marginalized communities, people who have old school mindsets. Particularly older black men will typically keep those hateful mindsets and it spans out across a lot of different communities. And that's just one thing. But there's a lot of reasons.
Speaker 1:Women my age okay, let's actually break it down women who are in the 50s, like Tracy women and like me, in our 40s, women in their 30s and women in their 20s are not fucking with older men. Because the thing is a lot of these older men think because they have money, they can just run out and get themselves any look any little young coochie. But a lot of those young coochies, bro. They're using you. I don't know if you know this, but there's whole platforms. You know the sprinkle sprinkle lady, the sprinkle sprinkle lady. She exists to teach women of any age range how to use men for money. I fucking hate her. I think she's a fucking idiot, but that's what she does. And there's millions and millions and millions of women picking up tips and tricks about how to use these older idiots for money.
Speaker 1:Younger women are not checking for older men because they're in love. They're using them. These older men think I can get me a little young hot tamale any day. Bro, you can't get a hot tamale that's going to love you, if love and respect is what you really want. It's very rare, boo. That's why you're not getting those little young tamales who aren't trying to use you. Why are you not getting women in your 30s? Why are you not getting women like me in my 40s or women like Tracy in her 50s?
Speaker 1:And also Tracy's in the category outside of all this? She's Diana Ross's daughter. She's had a long, thriving, successful career. She's filthy rich. She comes from a good, healthy family. She's beautiful. She's childless. She's in the category of her own. I almost don't even want to put her in the same category of as me, as a nobody, but I'm just saying like she could get a man, any man, 35,000 times faster than I could. Let's just say that, not downing myself. I'm just trying to, you know, recognize like we're in a different place socially, financially, stratospherically in every way.
Speaker 1:But these older men, they don't have progressive value. Younger women and myself, me and Tracy have done, you know, years of work of pursuing and figuring out like what are the progressive values that we really hold dear, whereas these younger generations, gen Z, these young millennials and Gen Z and Gen Alpha well, gen Alpha is still really young. But these next generations, like they don't have to search it out like Tracy and I did, they don't have to go to the library and look at the books, like because we didn't have the World Wide Web. You know, I grew up without the World Wide Web. I didn't really have access to the Internet, ongoing until I was married in my early 20s. Y'all OK.
Speaker 1:Older men hold very traditional, outdated views still and they refuse to let it go about control about gender roles. They still want you to come fix their plate for them. Before you even get a chance to sit down, they're going to be eating their plate. There's an incompatibility, fundamental incompatibility, with progressive values nowadays. Another thing these older men are still signed up for, willingly for the patriarchy. They're still here for the patriarchy. They're still gung-ho for the motherfucking patriarchy and, what's worse, they think that a woman like myself who is trying to destroy, defeat, demolish and abolish the patriarchy. They think we're wild and misbehaved and angry and terrible women. Which is great. It's actually entertaining. This is not rocket science.
Speaker 1:Women in their 50s, 40s, 30s and 20s do not want to date a man with ingrained patriarchal views. Still, we don't. We don't want y'all motherfuckers, because y'all are going to be all about these subtle ass power imbalances that make living with you insufferable and intolerable, which is why y'all wives left you, why your third wife left you, why you don't have a relationship with your children. That's why you're alone on a dating app taking a fucking picture from a bad angle. That's why. That's why and we show as fuck don't want you to limit our autonomy, which is what these, this tip, the older men, are on like, yeah, come on, come on, it's 2025. Like we can have our own bank accounts now, sir. We have credit cards in our name, sir, we have homes in our name, sir, we have cars in our names, we're building generational wealth, we have multiple degrees, we're taking care of our children and you're going to try to limit my autonomy.
Speaker 1:Really, these older men, men like Shannon Sharp, are practicing toxic masculinity. Men like Shannon Sharp are practicing toxic masculinity. Shannon Sharp has a case in 2004, an essay case in 2004,. An essay case in 2012 or 2014. I forgot the year, but it was like more than a decade ago. She, just in light of this new situation with this 19 year old, the woman from 2012 or 2014, just reopened her case and she's representing herself, apparently. And then in this recent case for most of y'all know it's troubling the allegations are coming out are troubling as hell. Not to mention that she's 19 and, yes, even though she's legal, he's 56 and all the dynamic, the aforementioned dynamics that I talked about about older men and women who are teenagers. She's a literal teen. She was a literal teenager when they met. All that is present, but that's all toxic masculinity.
Speaker 1:Toxic masculinity, if you don't know, includes emotionally repressing people, using your manhood and maleness to emotionally repress, to dominate, to be the aggressor, unnecessary aggression and the objectification of women. In general, older men tend to have a much higher prevalence of this bullshit aggressor, unnecessary aggression in the objectification of women. In general. Older men tend to have a much higher prevalence of this bullshit and also they're somehow less emotionally intelligent to know that they're doing it, but also somehow are worse at hiding it, because sometimes men who are really good at being toxic masculine men, they can hide it and the subtlety is what is kind of keeps them in the game, but, like older men are just like woman.
Speaker 1:Get your ass over here and sit down. You're like, could you at least hide that you're a toxic, a toxic man? You just gonna have it all out here in these streets like y'all, you make it so easy, y'all make it so easy to just move the fuck on generational differences. These boomers out here in these streets, like shannon sharp, these boomers are not emotionally intelligent, as I mentioned before, and emotional intelligence is like the new currency. One of the dating coaches on hinge said that too.
Speaker 1:Like, emotional intelligence is what a lot of women want these days and I would say that too. It is like the number one thing, like when I meet girlfriends. You know not to brag, but all my girlfriends are so emotionally intelligent. I I just really tend to attract emotionally intelligent woman to woman relationships and we love each other Well, we talk to each other Well, we hold space for each other's tears, we hold space for each other's sadness and depression. They don't say mean things to me, we don't deal with jealousy and this is like literally all of my life I've had the best good girlfriends, I've had some relationships and but they're all really peaceful and if they're not peaceful and if I feel like there's jealousy or angst or weirdness or toxicity, I just exit it or they exit it. I just don't tend to keep women like that around. So I know it's possible. I know it's possible. I've enjoyed it all my life.
Speaker 1:It's so easy to see when I meet men, particularly like 40, 45, 50, 55 and older, that they just don't have that gift. They have not developed it. The way that women are attuned to our emotions and figure out how to navigate that in relationships in a way that brings peace, men just don't tend to do that work. A lot of them, not all of them, a lot of them. And that lack of emotional intelligence is glaring in older men. It's glaring. No one in 2025 wants to teach older men how to do that. I'll be damned. I will be damned if I'm gonna sit around and teach an older man how to be a good boyfriend to me, how to be a good boyfriend. Can you please just let me cry? Oh, that's funny.
Speaker 1:One thing I can say that I really love about Tracy, her comments and myself and other women who are bringing awareness to this is that we have grown up with these more open conversations. It's mainstream now. Feminism is mainstream, intersectional feminism is mainstream and there is a heightened awareness out here in these streets. We know what problematic behavior is. I mean, I had a literal whole TikTok channel for a while. I don't focus on it anymore, but my whole TikTok channel for a while was focused on the signs of narcissistic abuse, signs of love bombing, signs you're trauma bonded.
Speaker 1:Women are out here in every social media platforming giving wisdom and imparting wisdom on how to essentially survive cis heterosexual men, and I love that for us. I love that for us. I don't love the sprinkle sprinkle lady and what she's doing, because I think teaching people to do evil things is, in in and of itself, evil. It's literally like Kevin Samuels or other men of his ilk and other red pill men who are out here teaching men how to be evil to women. If there is a man who built a whole platform on teaching men how to basically just use and have sex with women which I know there are and I don't even want to say his name because we know the popular I really don't even want to utter his name. We know who he is. If you want to be a good human and this platform is for people who want to be good humans I would like to be a good human. I'm never going to teach y'all how to take advantage of another human and do harm to them, even if you are the marginalized community which this channel is for black women. I'm a black woman.
Speaker 1:I still don't think that the response to years of oppression and violence is to try to oppress in a different, more unique and modern way. Like no, no, I love that right now, in this current genre of women like myself, we really do prioritize relationships that are based on mutual trust, understanding. We really want equality, we want genuine partnership. We really want to be in relationships with our good girlfriends, with our gay guy friends and with our romantic, cis, heterosexual dating partners that reflect equality and love and kindness.
Speaker 1:And baby, these boomers. They're like what you want? Equality. What now? What? Also, these Gen Z's out here. Okay, y'all my kids. I have one Gen Alpha and two Gen Z's and they are much more willing. Them and all of their friends, these younger generations, are much more willing to challenge traditional-ish, are activists at 13, 14. Look at Greta. What's her name? Greta, the little white girl from whatever where. She is the environmental activist. She's an activist when she was like nine. Like these gen z, gen alpha kids. They're like we are not afraid to call out the bullshit of the generations before us, and I really think that all of the generations of women are like we are just not going to bend to pressure and be willing to accept a boomer or even a Gen Xer who is toxic to us. Like we just not.
Speaker 1:And like I said about how I really don't like dating men who aren't LGBTQIA plus allies this generation of women that's coming up in the world, especially the younger ones, they also want that same alignment. They want shared values, particularly around social and political issues. Did y'all see? Did y'all see? There's a meme that I saw. Actually, it wasn't even a meme, it was an article. I don't know where I saw it. I saw it on Instagram. I saw the article, like the screenshot of the top of the article, but it basically said that there isn't Trump don't or Trump. People who work for Trump in DC or people who work at the White House, people who align with him, are having a hard time dating in DC because no one wants to date them. I just thought that was so funny. I laughed so hard when I saw that. I was just like that's because we don't want to date assholes. So, yeah, I I'm sorry for y'all that y'all literally chose to align with a fascist dictator and now no one wants to give you coochie. Sorry, that's what happens when you choose evil.
Speaker 1:And those aren't even older men, y'all. Those are men in their 30s. These are like men who you know, went to harvard and and yale and and now they're working on a political campaign, working for Trump, and can't get coachy because nobody wants to align with a fascist dictator. These women nowadays we're not playing with y'all. We are not here to play. We want gender equality. We want you to care about social justice issues. We want you to be inclusive. We want you to have a modicum of emotional intelligence. We want you to care about these things, not so that you can get coachy, but because you're actually just a good person. Yeah, and we just can't.
Speaker 1:I know I mentioned this earlier, but it cannot be underestimated the impact that social media platforms and the fact that women are sharing with each other, our experiences dating older men, our experiences dating men who are less emotionally unintelligent, our experiences just opting out of being with any cishet men of any age range, just because of how much cishet men tend to not all of them siphon every good thing out of us, and I have experienced that too, y'all. I mean, I've literally been out here in these dating streets since my last serious relationship was in the summer of 2022. So it's been about almost three years that I have been not exclusive with anyone, really just dating around. I've been on dating apps, I've been trying to get to know men. You know, I haven't dated like a crazy amount, but at a steady clip. So I'll go, I'll, you know, date a few people, I'll be in the talking phase with a few people and then, you know, something will happen or I'll get a little bit past the talking phase. Like maybe three weeks tends to be right around the time that a man will start being disappointing and or toxic and or will realize it's not going to work because of big, huge differences or travel or whatever it is, depending on how catastrophic the interaction is. Depends on how long I'll go again before I can like get up the nerve because, like Tracy said and I really just vibed with her on this like if you want to have a partner, me and her are really different because, unlike her, I was married for 20 years of my adult life and so I kind of feel very wore out on that and I have three kids and I don't want anymore.
Speaker 1:She had said in the episode with her and Michelle Obama that she feels a little bit of pain on the fact that she never decided to like settle down and get married. Not that she couldn't have. She decided not to. She decided not to have children and she said I'll sit with that and then I'll decide, yeah, I would really like to have a partner. And then she'll go back out there and date and then come up against the issues and pull back, which is exactly the cycle that I'm on too, except I might be a little bit more tired, tracy, having had the experiences of marriage behind me, and particularly one of them which was horrific domestic violence. It just it makes you tired in a big, big, big way.
Speaker 1:But one thing I've realized is that in dating around, is that I've so often met up with men who are not even all the way like problematic. I definitely have come across some problematic as hell men, but I've also met some really good ones. I really feel like I've come across a good five to six to seven to maybe even eight good men, and it just didn't work out with in this last year. So I can't even say like they were all terrible, they were all toxic, because, no, I've really met some good ones and some of them I'm still friends with. Like the guy who I was with in 2022, who were no longer together. He's like one of my best friends now Not sexual at all, we're just completely friends. We talk pretty regularly, we help each other out, you know, with our situations of other people we're dating. It's completely platonic and I love him as a friend. And he was a younger man he turned 40 this year but, for example, he's someone who is much more progressive and I love him as a friend.
Speaker 1:There is a number of men most of the men I've dated, most of the men I've dated actually went out on dates with and or slept with and or had anything significant with I'm still friends with and most of those men are all younger than me. And that's another big difference between the older men dating younger women. Usually it ends in a lawsuit, especially when you're someone like Shannon Sharp and you're being accused of SA for the third time with the third women. But, like when older women date younger men, it's not predatory. It's usually about like let's have an equal, mutually exclusive, mutually beneficial relationship, slash partnership, whether we agree that it's going to be friends, friends with benefits, dating intimacy, let's fall in love, let's get married, like, whatever the iteration is that it's decided upon.
Speaker 1:Almost all the men who I've dated in some way, that's even tiny bit remotely like wow, we in this I'm literally still friends with you could literally ask any of them did Grace harm you? Did she try to use you? Did she try to use you for your money? Did she try to use you? Did she try to use you for your money? Did she try to use you for sex? Did she? Did she do bad shit to you? Did she lie to you? Was she a fuck girl? I'll hear these streets like they would all be, like no, grace is my girl, she was, she was the bomb. Because that dynamic is just so different. It's so different.
Speaker 1:So, while people really wanted to judge tracy, I'm like y'all. She's literally just wanting to be around men who aren't toxic. If you want to judge her for that, I guess. If you want to judge me for that, I guess I guess Go ahead and judge me for wanting to be around someone whose values align with mine, who actually knows how to treat me like a human, who actually possesses the qualities that I want and someone who I want to be around in my life like, okay, go ahead and judge me, go ahead and judge me.
Speaker 1:I just think it's real fucked up that there's a lot of scrutiny around older women dating younger men versus older men dating younger women. The scrutiny should for sure be on older men dating younger women, because it's normalized in our society. It's even celebrated, yeah, it's made fun of, yeah, we all make fun of Leonardo DiCaprio because he don't date nobody older than 25. I would love Leonardo DiCaprio to do some sort of live show with some therapist. That's literally live and not edited. What's going on with you? Because the thing is, because I know my reasons. I don't even want to judge Leonardo, I just want to understand. For example, I will tell you there is this one time actually, this is. This is really funny.
Speaker 1:There was one time a 19 year old tried to talk to me. I met him on Hinge. He was 41. I'm sorry, sorry. His age on Hinge was 41. He was 19. And obviously in his pictures I could see this man is not 41. For some reason, on dating apps, there is this whole thing where it'll have your age wrong and the dating apps will make it really hard to change. Like I've come across this in multiple different dating apps. So I was like I know his age is wrong. I can see with my eyeballs he's not 41. But I thought maybe he's like 28 or 29.
Speaker 1:This boy was 19 years old, but anyways, I matched with him and we got to start talking and I was like hey, I can see that you're. You know that you're clearly not 41. Like how old are you? The more we got talking like he didn't tell me, but the more we got talking I could just tell from the way he was talking that he was a lot younger. I never met up with him, by the way, never went out with him, never slept with him, never nothing. Let me just be clear. But I did keep a conversation going with him in the app because I wanted to understand like what is it about you as which?
Speaker 1:Later I found out he was 19. I was like what is it about you that makes you want to talk to and date a woman who's 48? And first of all, he didn't want to date me. He just wanted to me. Okay, so let's just make that clear. I don't. I had no illusions that he wanted to take me out and buy me flowers. Okay, he did end up telling me that his mom died when he was like three or four and that he had some significant mom trauma and that he wanted someone to take care of him. I actually appreciated his vulnerability and, you know, as a loving, kind, non-predatory woman, I was just like, hey, you know, I thank you for telling me. I really think you should get some therapy and, you know, figure that out, because you're going to come across women who are going to use you, you know, and who are going to take advantage of that vulnerability. And then, after we had that conversation, he got kind of an attitude problem and then I just blocked him because I was like, yeah, I'm not going to do this, I'm not going to become a therapist in the hinge messaging but the term cougar, which I've kind of jokingly referred to myself as, because I have I have talked to and dated a few younger guys and which, by the way, let me just state the ages.
Speaker 1:So there was one guy that I kind of dated, talked to on and off for a good chunk of time. He was 34 when we met and I was 45, I believe, when we first met. And then there was one guy who was 28 when we met and when and I was, I think I was 43 or 44. I don't remember, but I remember telling him like wow, there's 18 years between us, like that's significant. And just like, oh, I don't know. That was very, very, very brief, very brief because, again, generationally it's just so different.
Speaker 1:When I say I've cougared, I mainly mean me in my mid to late 40s, talking to men who are in their mid to late 30s, most of them. I did have one significant relationship post my divorce where he was 38 or 39. And that's when I actually, at that point, I was a lot younger, like well, younger than I am now. I was 42, 43 ish, I don't remember. But like, for me that was the first time I had ever talked to anybody in their 30s and I was just like, oh my God, oh my God, I'm talking to someone in there, he's 30. I'm dating someone in their 30s, oh my god. And I was in my 40s and that was like such a huge deal. But now I'm like whatever, when I say I've cougared and I'm cougaring, that's for me what I mean.
Speaker 1:And then at some point I just realized, like because I've had some friends with benefits, situations with somebody in their 20s and at some point I realized even that is probably just not a good idea, even if it's not for like long term or whatever, even though it's fun. Like Tracy said, you know there is some perks to late 20s it's definitely physical and sexual and financial perks to that age range but it's not a good idea. But even so there's still kind of like a negative connotation towards cougaring and I have kind of just joked about it because I'm like I don't really think it's a big deal when, when it's literally for the purpose of mutual, beneficial, respectful, kind loving interactions that are consensual if it's sexual and a kind healthy kind of partnership of sorts. If it's not, that it doesn't matter what age any of us are. Like this whole thing with Shannon Sharp like yeah, it's kind of gross that she was 19 while he was 56. But at the same time it's like it wasn't consensual. She's accusing him of grape. Essentially, if you look into it, she's accusing him of that you hear audio of him talking about. He's going to choke her and she does not have a choice. There's text messages, which I will not repeat here that are graphic, that have come out with him detailing the essay that he's going to do to her. Besides, they had the race kink thing. That is an obvious example of that's not a healthy, kind, mutually loving, mutually beneficial anything. It doesn't matter how old they are, and he was married to a black woman before, I guess, and that ended with him dragging her out of the house by her hair or something like that. Speaking of cougaring, I got a text from the person I'm talking to right now who was younger than me, but again in his 30s. I don't even really feel like that's cougaring. Got a text from the person I'm talking to right now who's younger than me, but again in his 30s. I don't even really feel like that's cougaring, but maybe some people would think that's cougaring since I'm 48.
Speaker 1:Another thing is that, whereas women are typically typically more interested in like how to bring about positivity out of each interaction with someone we date, we're wired for connection and that can manifest into like a positive partnership, like how can we help each other, which is something that has come up with me in dating situations, no matter how old they are, which they're all younger but like how can we serve each other? How can we help each other? And in these older men younger women dynamics. A lot of times it's about how can I control you and manipulate you, and it's pretty obvious I will say I don't want to make it seem like the older women younger men dynamic is all shits and giggles, because, as someone who has talked to and or dated men who are almost all of them younger than me because of my own trauma, admittedly, which I will discuss in one moment here, but also because of all the reasons I already mentioned I will say that one thing that I have realized is frustrating for me, which I talked about in my last episode you should go watch it on why I decided not to cougar. Quite as much is because I have been in a very similar situation where some of the men I've talked to have still wanted to get married and have kids, and it's been frustrating for both of us.
Speaker 1:One of my most significant relationships post-divorce was this situation where we got together and I was just like, yeah, he really, really wanted to have his own baby. And I was on board because at that point when we met, I think I was 41 or 42. And I was like, even though I'm old to be having a baby, let's do this together, let's do this. And then, as time went on, like a year went by and I was just like, man, I do not want to have a baby. And it was just. It became a heartbreaking thing for both of us, cause I could tell he really, really, really wanted to have his own baby and I just was like I can't, I can't do that again. I literally cannot go through another pregnancy, not at 43. You know it wasn't like the demise of our relationship, but it was certainly the beginning of the end. So he did, by the way, end up getting into a different relationship and now has a beautiful baby girl and I'm really happy for him.
Speaker 1:But that situation really underscored for me how important it is to have that conversation and I've dated at least the one or two men I've talked to somewhat seriously who wanted to have kids in the future, like the one I talked about earlier who was 35. That was a big reason why we didn't move forward, because he was just like I would. I would want us to have kids together and I'm like I cannot ever give that to you and that was the end of it. So it's not all shits and giggles, but I did want to just bring up why, for me, I do have an issue, that is, an actual serious issue.
Speaker 1:I do have significant trauma because around my dad which I did not realize until really recently I think in the last year I realized this, but my dad was 44 when I was born. Okay, so I was born to older parents, both of them were older, and when my dad started abusing me he probably was about 40, I would say 46 or so, and then he abused me the first 10 years of my life, so that would put him at 40, between 44 and 54. The first 10 years of my life he was essaying me, and so when I was 10 years old, my dad was 54. And I remember very clearly what he looked like at all stages of the essay and what does he look like? An older, aging man.
Speaker 1:And so when I realized that my therapist helped me come to that conclusion, because we were talking about this and I was just like sometimes I do want to talk to older men, ones that don't seem like they're toxic and I feel an ick, like the ick, the ick I really shouldn't use that word because that implies that it's lighthearted Like, because some people will be like. Oh, he had on a pink shirt and it uses a Velcro wallet and I got the ick. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about literally like triggered, like an actual trigger, and I was like I'm literally grossed out. And my counselor asked me about that and I was like oh shit, oh shit. And then I realized like yeah, yeah, that's part of it for me.
Speaker 1:I'm definitely grossed out by, kind of like the signs of aging in a man between 45 and 55. And it's not about like anything shallow, it's literally kind of triggered. I'm literally kind of triggered. I'm literally kind of triggered. So I'm kind of working. I am working through that because it's like I'm getting older. Eventually I'm going to want to date someone in their 50s who's got like saggy balls. You know what I'm saying. I mean, all balls are kind of saggy, right, it feels like they all are, no matter what age. But whatever Y'all here, y'all get what I'm saying. So I think for me there are some other reasons, but that still falls kind of low on the totem pole. Because I can still look at a man who's like Denzel and other older black men, because I'm just primarily attracted to black men in general and still look at them, men who are, are 55, 60 and be like damn, like. They look fine as fuck, um, like an older, balding black man with like gray in his beard, a connected beard. They look really, really, really good to me. So I still feel it. But once they start talking then I'm like please, just shut the fuck up, please, and again I say please.
Speaker 1:The lesson here for us ladies since this podcast is for women and particularly for Black women, I think is we have to figure out what we feel comfortable with and do what the fuck we want. I know that there's people who are like, oh my God, grace is cougar and she's a cougar. I know there's people who think it's funny. Probably there's people who think it's cringy, although nobody's told me and I just decided like I'm not doing anything wrong, I'm not hurting anyone. No one is accusing me of manipulating them or saying them or anything else, because I'm not that person, or even using them, because I don't do that. If I wanted to use an old man for money, I could have done it a long, long, long time ago. But I think we have to do what is right, what is right and that's really not up for grabs. Figure out what you value and do what is right and do what is good for you and good for other people and really let the haters talk Like I don't think Tracee Ellis is sitting at a coffee shop crying because people have misunderstood or maybe she is.
Speaker 1:She's probably like oh my God, I literally just don't want to date toxic old men and I just say more power to you, tracy. Like more power to you, your girl, I got your back. I mean, I didn't make this for Tracy, I made it for the rest of us who aren't super wealthy and super beautiful and in this whole other stratosphere. But what I love about what she said is that she has a big, full life, she has wonderful friendships, she's a very embodied woman, is what she said, and I feel like that too, like I love my friendships, I love my children, I love a lot of aspects of my life and I'm trying to upgrade it in a lot of areas. And when I think about upgrades, I don't think that a man is what's going to upgrade my life, so I might as well be around the ones who are really aligned with me, who we share like a mutual kindness and mutual affection and mutual respect, and we care to make each other's life better, like that's who I'm going to be around, whether that man is 28 or 32 or 36 or 38 or 44 or 48 or 52. And all I'm saying is that I just haven't found anyone over 44 who fits that category at all. And it's not like I ain't been looking.
Speaker 1:And the last guy I dated who I was really excited about, like someone who I dated recently, who I was really excited about, I think I may have even like, really fully fell in love with him, even though we never live in the same city, we never did more than tongue kiss, we never slept together and I I respected him so much. I thought he was a good guy, he presented as a good guy, I thought he was a good guy and then he hurt me in such a malicious, unkind way. And then, as a result of that happening, I found out that essentially for the whole last year that we were in a talking stage on and off, he was lying to me about having a girlfriend. He had a girlfriend the whole time, the whole time that we were talking, and he was 44. And I just thought like, huh, wow, that's so toxic. I would expect that from a 54 year old, like I did not, did not see that coming at all, didn't see that coming at all and he was 44. It just goes to show, like you just never know, be safe out here in these dating streets. I wish I could wrap up this episode in a pretty bow, but I really can't, because the cishets so many of them are so toxic, no matter what age they are, and I'm just really like having to believe that one day I will find someone that is good for me and we're at an age stage and a generationally like in line, and that you know, know we can have somewhat of a happy life, even if it's not like longevity. I don't think longevity is necessarily a hallmark of a healthy relationship, but we can have a good life together. But anyway, y'all be safe, do what makes you happy and ignore these haters. Okay, that's where we are.
Speaker 1:Before I go, let me just tell you this episode is sponsored by grace. Actually is a book that I wrote, actually memoirs of love, faith loss and black womanhood. If you appreciate my voice and my stories, this book is literally memoirs of my stories of love, faith, loss and black womanhood, and I'm hoping to start a second one soon, but this is available on Amazon in a hard copy like this, or you can get in a digital copy and read it on your Kindle in the Kindle app on your phone or your iPad. I have a newsletter on subset, called out here thriving, and it covers six areas. So if you appreciate again my voice and my writing, I'm going to be starting that soon. It's going to cover soulful Sundays, mindful moments, body, beautiful, grown woman, wisdom, a creative corner, creative sparks, ish and and community connections.
Speaker 1:I also have a facebook group and the facebook group is a little bit dormant right now. I don't know what I'm doing it, but if you want a space to talk about stuff that happened that I talk about on this episode, I'll leave the link for the facebook group. It's called the alvear trying to survive podcast community group. It's completely free. Everything I do right now is free, except for my book. However, if you appreciate this podcast and want to support you, can support me on patreon or become a paid member on sub stack. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you. You could be anywhere, but you're here and I appreciate that so much. Thank you for listening. Please leave me a comment. Let me know where y'all are at. How old are you? How old do you date? Did you have an age range up? Do you have an age range down, like, let me know, let's talk. Anyway, thank you for being here and I'll see y'all in the next episode. Bye.
