Krystel Clear
In this podcast you will experience my unique approach to healing, happiness and following my souls purpose. My intention is to provide a platform that aims to guide and support individuals on their journey towards personal growth, inner healing, spiritual enlightenment or just taking the right steps to reach your highest potential!
My goal is to create a thought provoking, safe and nurturing space for listeners to explore various topics. Healing, self-discovery, mindfulness, wellness, empowerment, accountability, the raw truths of life, love and overcoming everyday obstacles.
I will have my tribe of healing coaches, doctors, colleagues and peers joining me to discuss their journeys in hopes of bringing enlightenment and empowerment to your world.
Life can be messy so let’s talk about that and the worthiness, forgiveness and compassion it takes to face our darkness and shine our light!
I hope this podcast validates your feelings, gives you the permission needed to share your voice, speak your truth and navigate your own journey with strength and perseverance.
**This podcast does not supplement any mental health or medical advice from practitioners. It’s a guiding tool providing resources from my own personal life experiences. The intention is to shed light and love onto the lives of others. You are not alone**
Krystel Clear
Finding Your True Self -Pt 1- with Lisa Klein
What does it really mean to "come back to yourself" after you've abandoned your own truth? In this deeply personal conversation with licensed mental health counselor Lisa Klein, we explore the nuanced journey of self-abandonment and reclamation that so many of us experience throughout life.
Lisa offers a refreshing perspective on attachment styles, debunking the myth that we're permanently locked into anxious, avoidant, or disorganized patterns. "Your attachment style is not permanent," she assures, explaining how our relationship dynamics can evolve through self-awareness and intentional choices. We examine why we're often magnetically drawn to relationships that mirror our unhealed wounds—"People are drawn to certain people because they show you something that needs to heal in yourself."
The conversation moves through practical strategies for reclaiming your voice after manipulative relationships, with Lisa emphasizing the power in validating your own emotions: "My feelings are valid, regardless of your intentions." We discuss how true connection requires holding space for different perspectives without trying to convince others of your truth—a challenging but liberating practice.
Perhaps most poignantly, Lisa reminds us that healing shouldn't become another performance-based achievement: "Don't be so focused on healing that you miss out on your life." This wisdom invites us to approach our journey with compassion, understanding that imperfection is part of being human.
Whether you're navigating relationship patterns, recovering from emotional manipulation, or simply trying to reconnect with your authentic self, this conversation offers both validation and practical wisdom for the journey. Listen now, and remember that unconditional self-love is the foundation of all healing.
Thank you for joining me today. Please know that this podcast and the information shared is not to replace or supplement any mental health or personal wellness modalities provided by practitioners. It’s simply me, sharing my personal experiences and I appreciate you respecting and honoring my story and my guests. If something touched your heart please feel free to like, share and subscribe. Have a beautiful day full of gratitude, compassion and unconditional love.
What's up you guys and welcome to this episode of Crystal Clear. I have a wonderful guest today who has become a great friend of mine, Ms Lisa Klein, who is a licensed mental health counselor. She's the founder of Lisa Klein Counseling. It's a Sarasota-based private practice where she works with adults, especially women, helping them with their life transformations, anxiety, big life shifts, really helping to reclaim their voice, reclaim their worthiness through these shifts that we all experience. So welcome, Lisa, it's really great to have you on today, Thank you.
Speaker 2:I'm happy to be here, excited.
Speaker 1:Yes, me too.
Speaker 2:So yes, I have been in private practice actually fairly newly. I transferred out of working in the school system doing mental health, but now I primarily work with adults navigating different things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how has that transformation been for you, because that's quite a big shift.
Speaker 2:It has been a lot, yeah, but I really enjoy it. It allows me a lot more flexibility and I really identify with a lot of the things that my clients present with now, so, yeah, Awesome, I mean, and that's just.
Speaker 1:I think my intention behind this podcast and all the guests that I bring on is just bringing the human experience to life and that, no matter what our background, no matter what our profession like, we still experience life, we do In all of these transformations. And that, I feel like, is where the true value of what our expertise is Like. It just adds so much value going towards, you know, all of those big shifts and having the tools and having the skills, and it's like we like to provide for others what we needed through those situations.
Speaker 2:I 100% agree with that and obviously we know a little bit about each other, so we know where we're coming from. Little bit about each other, so we know where we're coming from, but I think that it's really important what you touched on, that you know people need to hear that other people have experienced these things. It's not all what it looks like. It's not all the exterior experience leads you to believe, and being really honest and truthful about those things helps people not feel so alone, and that goes for everyone, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Right. So, yeah, I love that. Yeah, thank you, and we and something. I really I come in to podcasts with intentions, but Lisa and I had like three pages of things we wanted to talk about today, cast with intentions, but Lisa and I had like three pages of things we wanted to talk about today, so we had to narrow it down.
Speaker 1:But one of the big things and it's kind of been a theme throughout my journey and things that I've shared but something that we can like kind of just jump right into is something I think everyone has experienced in some way or another, whether they know it or not, and that is like self-abandonment and coming back to yourself after certain types of relationships or careers or you know, just trying to really figure out who you are and getting to your authentic place and your authentic person. And it may be because you know, you grew up doing everything you thought you were supposed to be doing, but it was never really made you feel purposeful.
Speaker 1:I mean, we could go probably three days talking about this one thing but would love to just kind of you know, from your professional perspective, personal perspective, what does that really mean to you? Like, when you hear that like self-abandonment, coming back to yourself, what does that mean for?
Speaker 2:you. I think that that means for me. First of all, I want to say that's ever evolving 100%, because you, coming back to yourself right now might be different than it was at a different time. Your perspective is always shifting. For me, I feel like there can be times I feel like I'm really in an authentic place and most of the time I do, I'm pretty transparent, maybe more so than sometimes is needed, but I think it's better to just say what's on your mind, generally speaking. But for me, I think it means standing in your truth without apologizing for it. In situations like you talked about with work, there's a balance with you know what is professionally expected of you and what might be in alignment with your values, right. And then you kind of have to measure and balance that the best way that you can, and nothing's ever going to be perfect, right. So you do the best that you can. But I think really to me that is the big thing, like not being apologetic for who you are right and you know.
Speaker 1:Just to elaborate on that, that doesn't mean you like go be an asshole because, that is unprocessed stuff you need to work through, but yeah, no.
Speaker 1:So so my perspective of what, or perception of what you just spoke about, is really what I've been really trying to. I mean, it's what I wake up every day and try to do and for me that looks different daily. Yeah, honestly, it looks so different from day to day, like my truth and what I'm showing up for today looks a little different than it did yesterday, because yesterday was Sunday and I was home with my kids and we were by the pool and you know. So just giving yourself permission it kind of goes back to that four agreements book, like doing your best every day and you know, and giving yourself the flexibility to know that that's different and you don't always have to be 150%. If you're at 70% today of whatever you want to judge that percentage on, that's okay, and if you're not, that's okay too.
Speaker 2:Yes, 100% agreed with that, and I also think with that. Said too, when I was thinking, exactly what you said about that doesn't give you an excuse to be an asshole. We're all human and whatever you see on social media is not true that you are able to hold yourself accountable without shaming yourself. Right, that is the key.
Speaker 1:It's like really, when we talked about this a little briefly before we even started filming, yeah, it's like that integrity, the character, like who are you when no one's watching? Yes, you know how I show up for myself when I'm home alone is the same way I show up for myself, if not more powerful than it is when my whole family's there, or how you know. So it's like that's the way I perceive that, like my, and I've had to really figure out what that was, because I haven't always lived that way yeah, not as consistently as I have in the past I would say five years. It's because you're exploring or diving into different avenues. You're, you know, you're socially a little bit more vulnerable, I think in your twenties and your teens, especially in your adolescence goodness for goodness sakes.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, for example, my, my daughter. I use her, for example, a lot because she's at that prime age where all the things are happening, but she has a friend and she's like it's so different when there's another group of friends around. Her voice even changes and she starts and she's like I just want to hang out with friends that don't talk about other people. I'm like be patient and know that if it's one person and we talked about like quality over quantity and people really trying to discover themselves at that young age, and I'm like, I feel like you're just an old soul.
Speaker 1:Not everyone who is your age understands this, but I love that you do. Yeah, but you know, there's people in their 30s and 40s and 50s. Some people never figure it out and we're seeking that external validation and we don't really know what it is that we want. Or maybe we've never had the opportunity to have space to understand what it is that we need, because we're we're seeking and listening and conditioned from all of these environmental factors that don't give us that space to process, like what is it that I really want and that I need, and what feels good for me? Like what brings me peace, what brings me joy, not what I think I should be doing.
Speaker 2:Right, right, and I think a lot of people too like they don't. There's safety in not being yourself. In a way, it doesn't feel good a lot of the time, like truly, but if you're just one of the masses like you aren't picked out you know, like people I when I think of high school, she's in high school right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I think of high school, I was, honestly, I was very nerdy.
Speaker 2:I still kind of am, but that you know I remember thinking I don't really care, that I'm super nerdy, but a lot of people, like you know, had different opinions about me and that probably would have been harder for somebody who wasn't, you know, more self-assured. And I went through different things, um, in my life that kind of led me to that way that I was. But I think that it's really difficult when people are going through identity formation. Like one of our core needs as people is to be accepted and feel, you know, connected to other people. I still feel that, but now I think we can get older, right, and you have more life experience. You can be like I want to be connected with people who support me, embrace me and challenge me too, like it can be both. It doesn't have to be mutually exclusive to one, but some people just, yeah, they would rather not kind of go against the grain because it can be easier, yeah, and it's scary to really get into yourself sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so. I feel like I'm a person that's never really liked to be part of the like. If everyone's swimming this way, I'm like, well, this way is way less crowded, so I'm going to try this out. Like this is a little more peaceful over here, it's interesting to reflect back on. And it's also interesting, you know, for my own experience, it's been interesting to see, like as the world it's also interesting, you know, for my own experiences, but interesting to see, like as the world we know it today, what that even looks like.
Speaker 1:And um, you know so, I think, when we think like, coming back to ourself after relationships, for example, like you know, you can get into whether it's an intimate relationship, a family relationship, because it doesn't have to just be with an intimate partner.
Speaker 1:If you're giving and you're giving and you're giving and you're not receiving from those situations and those connections the way that you're hoped, I think that's really kind of what gives us that lack and the void sometimes it does that lack and the void sometimes. So it's like finding ways to balance and fill the void from the lack of connection that we want, because it's something we would give. Like you know, it's like, oh well, I would do this for this person and this and this, and it's like, okay, well, if that's just not them, it's not them. So it's almost like releasing the expectation but also setting a boundary of. This is what I need, right, and finding relationships and connections that are fulfilling. In that way, and if you don't have those relationships with other people, and honestly I feel like until I understood what I needed from myself, I didn't know what I needed from other relationships- that's really true, though.
Speaker 2:I mean because if you aren't aware of how your wounds or upbringing has shaped your worldview and your perspective in dealing with people, it can be really hard to understand why things happen in a dynamic Because, truthfully, in any relationship, like you were saying, whether it's peers or family or intimate partnership, you mirror each other, like you will trigger each other, which is why, you know, in therapy I kind of try to I don't directly necessarily say this, but it's the I genuinely think that most people act by doing what they think is best, like they aren't purposely malicious.
Speaker 1:That doesn't mean that they're meeting your needs.
Speaker 2:But I think it's important to think about that because, yeah, when you're abandoning yourself in order to try to get something from somebody else, it's something that needs to be like, addressed within you it's something that needs to be like, addressed within you. That doesn't mean what's happening is wrong, right or right in the relationship. Those are individual circumstances, obviously, but if you feel so compelled right to keep grasping at that and they're not meeting you, so it's like what?
Speaker 1:is it?
Speaker 2:inside what needs to heal in there. Yeah, what does it say about you? That that person is not giving you what you need. What do you feel like it's saying and why are you?
Speaker 1:expecting this of this person Right and not soul searching within, Like a great book from Young Playbook like Inward. Have you read that book?
Speaker 1:it's so good and it's really like it's really small little pages, but you really kind of like little tips, like it's. I feel like it's like a potty book, like every day it's like, oh wow, I didn't think I could do that. You know, it's like little things we don't think about because I think from very young we are taught or conditioned just in society or whatever your background, and just to seek from external yeah, we're not necessarily depending on you, know. I feel like I do my best to instill this into my children. Is you know, seek from internal, Like what is it that you need today? Is you know, seek from internal, like what is it that you need today? And that should be what shapes and forms. You know who you surround yourself with and what you're doing and what you're eating, how you're moving your body. You know whatever that means is like, go inward first instead of thinking like I need it from here. It's like what in here can I do to nurture myself first?
Speaker 2:yeah, I agree with that. I think people just get really confused as time goes on.
Speaker 1:That's well because we have all of these overstimulating. We need you to be this, we need to do this. We need intermittent fast. We need to do that.
Speaker 2:Like well, there's so much shit out there, even at school, like even young, and like thinking about kids that are maybe neurodiverse and like how they have to, or a lot of times feel like they have to mask, like their behaviors or symptoms because they aren't accepted by their peers, and then that creates like a whole plethora of self abandonment, which is really heartbreaking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and being empowered by who they are. And accepting that and I think too, becomes like understanding the other. One of my favorite quotes is like other people's opinion of you doesn't matter and it's none of your business.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, and trust me, I do it to myself all the time. But if we can really internalize that like just take a minute to think about that? Is that, like, just take a minute to think about that? Because why is it as humans, do we try to please other people? Why is it that we do get into these situations or relationships or careers, or where we lose that authenticity or or shelter what we really want or or, you know, don't use our voice, yeah, and just conform.
Speaker 2:I think that's a twofold kind of response. I think it's almost like part of us doesn't know what we want all the time. You know, when you're young you might think you want X, y and Z life. I mean, I remember when I worked with kids. They would be like I have my whole, like I'm going to get married at 18. And I'm like okay yeah, and I'm going to be a doctor by the time I'm 24. Like they have this idea.
Speaker 1:MASH. Did you ever play the game, mash?
Speaker 2:I'm going to get a mansion, like I know it's going to happen because I got it. But so we have these ideas, but we don't really know what we want because we haven't had enough experience, right.
Speaker 2:And then I think on the other side of that, you know, when we're growing up and I hate to like, attribute everything, to like attachment and this and that, but that's a big part of stuff so when you don't have your needs met, necessarily, when you're younger or you're, you know, taught to accommodate or like say, not ask questions why you have to do things, then you kind of lose that touch with your own intuition and you kind of go into everything like listening to other people and this is the way I'm supposed to behave, and then it takes a lot of unlearning you know, and let's touch on attachment styles, because that is my jam, and when I realized what I kind of fall into, yeah, what I can see how I've fell into, kind of grew out of.
Speaker 1:You know, it's like you, because constantly evolving again.
Speaker 2:So I love that you just said that, because, number one, your attachment style is not permanent. No, nothing is permanent, right I'm anxious, they'll see something on social media. I'm anxious, like that is who I am, and I'm like, no, like, no. Actually that's not really the situation, but it varies from relationship to relationship. It does from person to person.
Speaker 1:I mean my relationship with my mother is very different than my relationship with my husband, and very different my relationship with my kids and very different my relationship with my peers. Yeah, and so I have a different type of attachment style to everyone in my life right. So give us a little brief on the different attachment styles and kind of Well there's anxious attachment, which you know has a bunch of different.
Speaker 2:It's easiest for me to talk about it, I guess, in context to a romantic relationship, generally speaking. But there's the anxious attachment, avoidant attachment, disorganized attachment, and then secure attachment. Right, in regards to, like, an intimate partnership, an anxious person might be the person that identifies as like, overanalyzing everything, kind of trying to figure things out to anticipate the way somebody else might act or respond to them before they do they work themselves up by trying to fix the relationship before anything happens, right.
Speaker 2:I used to very much relate to that one early on, and then the dismissive on the other side. That's kind of like the other side of the pendulum. The dismissive is the one or the individual who is like you're freaking me out when you want to get too close, like it's too much for me, you're, you know, getting in my space. I feel overwhelmed, I'm not going to be able to engage with you Also.
Speaker 1:I felt like I can relate to that one in a different relationship. Well, and I'm thinking of these things too, and it really depends on like who the person is with you right, and like what that person brings alive inside of you, right Rosenberg would stay, and that's what brings up those time, because just think of it like since birth, we've had different relationships, like our mother and father relationship with different, our relationship with our grandparents, like.
Speaker 2:So, thinking back into my or before I go there, let's finish the attachment, okay, so then there's disorganized and it's like I'm not sure if I like you or not, like I'm not sure why I'm feeling that way, just very unsure of their inner response to what is going on in the exterior and relationship to people, like they're kind of a mishmash of both of those. And then they're secure and obviously like everybody wants to be secure all the time and that I really feel like is earned in a relationship, because, you know, not everyone has experienced trauma and I think that word gets feel bad and leave wounds Right. And I like to. You know I refer to that a lot as just unprocessed life. Yeah, like sometimes we have unprocessed life Right.
Speaker 1:And I think that's a great way. Yeah, because it's normalized, because we all have something in our life and our body and it could be something that didn't even happen to us. It's something that we witnessed in our family situation. It could be something that we witnessed with friends and their families Right.
Speaker 2:Or more subtle things. But I think that when you're in relationship with somebody, you can learn to heal those things with each other. I mean, I even think and a lot of people are like, oh my gosh, when there's an anxious and avoidant together, because they're, they like go through cycles, that's a very common relationship, dynamic relationship dynamic. But I will say it's not, you know, easy. But I think that those people are drawn to each other for a reason and they can, if they're both able to be accountable for how they come in, become secure if it's meant to be. They're like, prepared for that work, like that deep work, a lot of freaking work.
Speaker 1:I will tell you firsthand it is a lot of work and it takes a lot of inward searching, a lot of transparency and communication, yes, and a lot of trust.
Speaker 2:It does. You have to be really willing to face your own shit and avoidance.
Speaker 1:Don't like to do that and anxious, don't like to do that because me coming more from like an anxious attachment. So again, what different person I'm talking about. My now husband, um, was more of like uh, oh well, if this happens, this is going to happen and that's kind of what led to those PTSD or PTSD patterns and it's like, well, it doesn't always have to be cause and effect, like you've created this whole monstrosity of a story in your mind.
Speaker 1:You know I'm talking like way back, but like thinking the worst is going to happen, or that was my own conditioning.
Speaker 2:Didn't really have anything to do with him, and that's so valid, though, because our history shapes our world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it is.
Speaker 2:And then there's the cycle of shame with that for an anxious person to like. You know, why am I doing this? I can think logically Well, it's not actually illogical what you're thinking either. So you know, it's just getting in all this stuff and kind of seeing things as they are.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, and it's really just and um, do you have any good resources for researching the attachment styles for the listeners out there? I always like to kind of throw a resource out there any good books or anything like that and if so, we, if it even pops up later, yeah.
Speaker 2:I actually have a. I want to give you an account that I follow on social media, but I want to make sure I give you the right handle. I think it's the secure attachment therapist, but I'm going to confirm that.
Speaker 1:Okay, I think I follow them as well, something like that, which is really interesting because, you know, having my daughter at 25, having my son at 35, realizing Matt and I have tried so hard in this age of parenting I mean 10,. Our other kids are 10, 11, and 13 years older than our almost five-year-old and he has, like the healthiest, secure attachments.
Speaker 2:Like he's great.
Speaker 1:He's excited when his nanny gets there, he's excited when mommy gets home, when daddy gets home, he's fine when we leave. And you know, there's days where he's like I'm a little bit sad and I missed you. And just seeing that and knowing the difference and then me thinking like you know how I was at his age when I had to leave my grandmother, who was my person, and it was like what's gonna happen to me, what you know, just thinking of like the internal and seeing that's like, oh, we've done such a good job, he's secure I mean, we all have our but that to me, I think, was like a huge goal. Coming into this new chapter is just creating a secure, safe place. Yeah, um, not only for him but for myself and for the rest of our family and my friends and my peers and you I'm sure you get this often you tell someone you're a mental health professional and you're sitting on the plate and they're like okay you owe me like 600 bucks.
Speaker 2:I'm just kidding. Well, a lot of people like to divulge. You know, what do you think about this? And I'm like oh my gosh the nuance.
Speaker 1:I can't get it I think it also speaks to like you're a safe person. You know and people feel like you're a safe place, whether probably even not even knowing what your profession is. Yeah, I feel like they can talk to you and I think I mean you and I. The first time we ever had coffee were like deep into the weeds of like life and family, yeah.
Speaker 1:But it was a beautiful thing because it was like, okay, I mean, we knew a little bit about each other's background, but I think that just speaks to having safe people, having a safe place. So you know research, if you feel like, whatever your attachment style might be, there are resources out there for you. Lisa is one of them. So you know this is what she does on the day to day and helping people process through their life and their, you know, working on the deep, deep inner stuff and you know, getting kind of moving forward into like reclaiming your voice. So we get into these situations. We lose ourselves, whether it's career, relationships, whatever. Yeah, what do you recommend for people, whether it's romantic, family, parental, peer, like reclaiming their voice after, say and I hate to use the word narcissism or narcissist because I think it's way too trendy and all the things, but an emotionally manipulative relationship.
Speaker 2:Well, the first thing that I recommend to anybody that comes in and presents with that to me, and even just like friends, although I might be more candid- in those situations.
Speaker 1:Right, and this is speaking off the record, we're not in a session, right?
Speaker 2:But I tell people because a lot of times how that starts is you're overreacting, like your feelings aren't valid because of what I said, like it could be oh, I'm single in public and you've been dating somebody for a long time and them being like that hurt my feelings and they go. I'm just kidding, right, and that's gaslighting, right first of all. But then you have to be able to be like no, actually no right my feelings are valid, regardless of your fucking intentions.
Speaker 2:Like that is a firm point for people when they're feeling like you know I'm trying to reclaim who. I am Validating your emotions. That's different than acting on your emotions too. I'll also say that you don't want to go start screaming at everybody that I'm right all the time. No, because you know everybody has their own truth.
Speaker 1:Right, I was going to say your perspective of what might be right is probably not the other person's perspective, that's why I really tried to not even use the words like right and wrong.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Because it's all just personal. We create our own reality, right?
Speaker 2:But I think, when people are, feel or are in manipulative relationship situations. It becomes about convincing the other person that they're not right or like that their emotions or where they're coming from.
Speaker 1:They're devaluing that person.
Speaker 2:Right, and it's kind of a control tactic to a degree, and that could be because the other person's afraid of being abandoned and hasn't done their work. I mean narcissists. There are few, true, like that is a very small percentage of people that fit into that actual personality disorder.
Speaker 1:And honestly that personality disorder really does stem from their you and not taking the time and space to hear you, to try to understand. I mean, that's one of the biggest deal breakers for me in a friendship and a romantic relationship and anything Like.
Speaker 1:if you cannot hear me and understand where I'm coming from, you don't have to be able to relate to it or I just want you like that is compassion right, like being able to hear and understand someone's perspective and point of view, even if it is not your own and not something you agree with. But being able to hold that space for them is key.
Speaker 2:It is that's solid right there.
Speaker 2:I think that is really important, because a lot of people like I always say this to people too.
Speaker 2:You know a lot of people that come into therapy with me, you know might be dealing with relationship, dynamic issues, aside from other things, and they'll be like you know, we, or, if they've broken up with somebody that's in a relationship like this, they might say something like we never fought, like it was great, and I and I'm like, well, no, not exactly, because, right, like you, aren't the two exact same person, so somebody was not saying something. Like there wasn't communication there, and I think you know being able to have conflict or those conversations that are hard or important, um, but really, you're right, if somebody is not able to hear it, it doesn't really matter, it's not going to be, doesn't change, you can't control, and I think that's part of reclaiming your voice to somebody else and reclaiming it internally. Like you have to be like, okay, this is my truth and I own that, and like that's theirs and I can't convince them. Right, like how's it going to serve me to keep arguing about it? Right, but you have to get to that point, right.
Speaker 2:It takes work on yourself to be able to be like I'm going to just drop it.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm going to drop it and I'm going to process to why I'm even chasing my tail with it and giving it energy, and that's. I think something really important is, no matter what type of relationship you're in, including yourself, no matter what type of relationship you're in, including yourself, allowing yourself this space and time to process, because so often we are busy and we're going through the motions and you know, maybe it's like a conversation we want to have and we don't get around to it because it's not a great time, because we're busy or like you know. So, the more you like, just let things go, yeah, and don't face them as they like. That's why I always keep a notebook. I probably have 15 notebooks in my car.
Speaker 2:Not really.
Speaker 1:But I literally, in every bag I have which I have bags I switch off and there's a notebook, there's something in there, because I write things down. Like, if it's something I want to chat with my husband about, well, I'm not going to call him in the middle of the day when he's at work and I'm, you know, commuting to get kids, cause it's not going to be in time for an intentional conversation. It's something I need to discuss with my mom. It's like, or my kids, or you know a friend, you know just creating space to have those intentional conversations. And if it's something you need to process through yourself, taking that time to do it for yourself, like that's why I'm a journal all the time, love it.
Speaker 1:And sometimes it's like, oh, this is what we did this weekend, it was great. And other times it's like I think I astral projected last night and I went to this other spiritual realm and what is the purpose behind this? Because it means something bigger. And what is life trying to teach me right now? And that's the way that I think I look at all of these, every, every relationship and every different opportunity is like what opportunity is.
Speaker 1:it's giving me Cause. Like you said, it's a mirror. So why is it that I keep, or I have, or who you know? I'm not necessarily speaking for myself, but why is it that we seek relationships that aren't fulfilling yet? Yet we keep seeking the same type of behaviors, and it's because we haven't taken time to process inward, like we said earlier, why what it is we're needing from the external, and do we need anything at all from the external is the question.
Speaker 2:Well, I think, yes, I think we need connection as humans, right? Like I don't think, I mean, I guess there are hermits, but I don't know any but I think that people crave connection, Like that feels good to be heard by somebody else that feels good to be heard by somebody else.
Speaker 1:I mean that's why people come to me. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:But, I think that we are drawn to people until the experience is fully absorbed and I don't want to say a lesson, because it's not, because it's not, but it's like you're drawn to certain people, I think, because they show you something that you need to heal in yourself, yeah, and that repeats until you're able to sit like come to the realization, whatever it is, yeah what do you think in your own life, has been that for you?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Well, I've been in some unhealthy relationships in my life and everything. I kind of think a lot of therapists are actually drawn to the field because of that, 100% yeah it's like we have our own demons In some way, whether it's first or second, yeah, I think that in my relationships I identified very much with the anxious attachment and like I'm trying to earn whatever to be reciprocated to me, and then eventually it was like no, I don't like why I am trying to earn my worthiness.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm trying to, you know, anticipate what was going to go wrong, or like, how should I word this to soften?
Speaker 2:And I was like, why am I doing that? Why am I softening things? So I think that definitely was one of the biggest lessons that I have to take and, with that said, you know there's a time and a place to address things right. You know, I'm I'm very aware of that too, and that you know, like I said, I feel like most people genuinely do come from a good place, but that doesn't mean that they're good for you, Right, and that's a big thing.
Speaker 1:And it's like knowing that, wow, you know, this looks like externally everything looks great, yeah, but why isn't it good for me? And it's like, and coming to the acceptance of that, yeah, like that's okay. And I think that's why you know marriages are great and then you know people dissolve them eventually because that's great for that period of your life. But it's okay to transition and transform because that's the evolution of life and not everyone and this is something someone told me a while back not everyone wants to heal and not everyone wants to grow. And some people are fine the way they are and genuinely fine.
Speaker 2:They're happy to go to work, they're content, and that's great.
Speaker 1:It is, and I don't think I've ever been one of those people.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:But I think those people are awesome. But, I think it's just really cool to know that, like not everyone is going to get it.
Speaker 2:Right and I think you're right really being able to accept that from a place of somebody who wants to constantly be evolving and growing, that like okay, that's okay if they're not there and like I have to be okay with that, I'm not going to make them see, like I'm not going to make them come to my side, right.
Speaker 1:And it comes with just having the healthy separation and those healthy boundaries of knowing like that's them and that's what serves them, and that's OK.
Speaker 2:I think it takes a long time and a lot of work to get to that point. I will say oh, 100%, and I think that's where the why when you were asking why people are attracted to certain people, it's because that hasn't happened yet, because they're trying to fix whatever of me. It negates all these other people that have left.
Speaker 1:You know like I'm convincing you of whatever I need, or even just taking a step back to appreciate that person for who they are. Yes, it's like when I stopped trying to fix my husband and I did a whole. A reel went viral on that.
Speaker 2:It was the biggest thing because people can identify with that.
Speaker 1:And it's like you don't all like like why you love him in the first place if you're always trying to fix him. Yeah, you know that's not fair and and so when I took a step back and was like, hey, like he has his own journey and he has his own, you know not that we didn't need things that we need to communicate that and be transparent about, and both needed to do inner work. But he did the inner work, yeah, and I was very fortunate enough that he took those steps to do that work for himself.
Speaker 1:He didn't have to make that choice right um, and and that, I think, goes for a lot of, you know, any relationship, not even just romantic friendships like it's okay for someone to be a part of a chapter. Not everyone goes along the whole stretch. Yeah, not everyone goes the whole route and that's okay.
Speaker 1:So, coming to that acceptance that like, hey, I've had really great friends and we're not as you know, we don't do as much as we used to anymore, but we're close in different ways, like I always hold space for them in different ways because I genuinely love them. Yeah, but our social lives are a little different, right, and that's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like I love them for them, and I love that they have the stamina to go out and do things that just don't serve me anymore. Yeah, but it's not about them, it's about me and like what serves me, and it doesn't mean they need to fix anything, it just means that that, okay, we're just different, right, and I think that that's part of reclaiming your voice. It is, and like coming back to yourself is just understanding, like it's okay to have the acceptance and when we start to have that acceptance and compassion that we're all living this beautiful, crazy, wild, dysfunctional human experience we call life.
Speaker 1:and finding the beauty in that and being able to hold space for other people, I think is, um, it says something and it and it honestly really helped me release that anxious attachment style is just being like whatever is supposed to happen is going to happen, like surrendering to the flow. I did a whole ladies retreat on this, coming up like just owning that and just embracing it. It doesn't mean you have to put up with shit. It just means that you're embracing things and kind of understanding how to cope and navigate along the way.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think that all of that is 100% true and I agree with that.
Speaker 2:I think people get you know, stuck at certain points, like when they're grieving a relationship like, and when you're talking about marriage in particular, I mean I'm divorced, but I think when somebody chooses not to do the growth, you can get really stuck there right, like nobody goes into marriage thinking, oh, this isn't going to last, I'm going to be one of the 50% that gets divorced. I'm meaning you're right. When you get out of that, I think you can see clearly like that was a part of my journey for better or worse.
Speaker 1:However you look at it.
Speaker 2:I had a beautiful child, I learned a lot of life lessons.
Speaker 1:But it doesn't necessarily feel that way and hopefully they do. Hopefully, people do when they come out of it Right.
Speaker 2:But there's a different way to look at it, right, and I think that is the choice of the person who is? Reflecting on it and says how they will be able to move forward in their future. But also, with that said, I was trying to say like I think when people get really stuck on that grief, like I love that person, I really want them to stay on this journey with me. It can be really heartbreaking and not, you know, rushing and be like, okay, well, that's their journey. Like sometimes you're like fuck them.
Speaker 2:Like you know, I mean, that's really painful and that's totally valid too, like you're right Wherever you're at. It's kind of like you have to be like okay, that's why I said really it starts with validating your feelings where you're at is so important to getting in touch with your gut and where you are Right.
Speaker 1:And just intuitively knowing, giving yourself the space and time and compassion to grieve, giving yourself that you know what you would give others in those situations and, oh my God, I feel like we could talk all day long I know, I know and we'll be back. I feel like this is going to be like a three part series.
Speaker 2:I'm like I don't want to Now.
Speaker 1:I'm in my jail so many more notes, so many more notes, but I have to pick my kids up today. Yeah, this has been. I mean, again, it's just literally opening up the door. So we'll be back for part two and part three. We are, we're coming back. Um, anything you want to leave our guests with today, with anything that we talked about and touched on, because I feel like we very briefly covered some of the stuff we could go into two-hour conversations about each day, right?
Speaker 2:um, something that I feel and we talked about this before the show, because I have all my notes here I think a lot about being intentional and. I know you do too. When you're talking about these topics, it's very important to consider nuance in every situation, that are nuanced in every situation, and I think there's no such thing like you have to be able to heal and embody yourself, but don't be so focused on healing that you miss out on your life.
Speaker 1:Like, forget to have the fun stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you are gonna mess up. No matter what, the tools and resources that you have can be plentiful. You could be the creator of a of cognitive behavioral therapy and still have problems that is the nature of our existence like just yeah, be with yourself.
Speaker 1:Don't be so hard on yourselves, right, like, just learn to love and show yourself those joyful moments. And just because I, you know I get into something, I go all in and I've been that person, that's like I'm over healing. I just need to you know like I'm overdoing it and that's actually something we're going to come back and do a whole podcast on healing versus performance. Healing, yes, so something we're both very passionate about, especially in social media world and all the stuff out there.
Speaker 1:So we're going to revamp and look at our schedules right after this and that's going to be coming out in the next few weeks after this one.
Speaker 2:You said something really important, though I want to say too Go for it desperately, need that all over.
Speaker 1:Because that's really what it is right. Yeah, it's like that's, if you really look back at any of the ancient texts and religion, like the basis is really just like the unconditional love and care and nurturing and just providing that love to honor our spirit and our existence. Thank you so much, lisa, for being here today, and I look forward to part two coming up Me too.