229. SECONDARY PROGRESSIONS: 💛 Forecasting Astrology

In this episode, Alisona nd Arwynne discuss the symbolic forecasting technique of SECONDARY PROGRESSIONS.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Starzoology Astrology Podcast. I'm your host, Alison Price, and I'm here with my good friend and co-host, Arwen O'Neill.

SPEAKER_03 0:08

Hello, Alison. It's great to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

So nice to have you once more. So in this episode, we're going to be talking about secondary progressions. Yes. So this is a topic, this is a forecasting topic, and I as I say, I can't believe how long we haven't spoken about this already. Yeah, it's crazy. It's been like three years, and we're just finally getting around to secondary progressions. We've done transits, we've done solar returns, I think we've even done solar arc directions. I think so. But for some reason, we never got around to secondary progressions.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Yeah, it's excellent.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Yeah. So in a nutshell, huh, not that you can put secondary progressions in a nutshell, but basically um secondary progressions uh come from it's a symbolic forecasting method, meaning that it's coming from your natal chart. And the idea is that we are taking symbolically the sun's movement for one day into the symbolic meaning of one year of your life.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

So where if you're 50 years old, the sun will have moved 50 days through the ephemeris to a certain point, and that would be the point where the second reprogress chart is calculated from.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

So it's it's 100% symbolic as opposed to um because the two forecasting methods broadly, I mean there are many different little different variations, but are transits and progressions. Progressions are 100% symbolic because you're you're equating days with years. Yes. Whereas transits, you can actually see that's there to do with where this the planets are actually moving as we speak and how that affects the where the planets were in your chart. So if like Pluto is going through Aquarius, where does that affect the your Aquarius placements? Currently, that would be a transit, but but progressions are 100% symbolic.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Yeah, yeah. So that's the thing, because transits are the same for everyone. If there's a full moon in Gemini, we've all got a full moon in Gemini. Yeah, but your progressions are entirely different. You will have different progressions to me, I'll have different progressions to the next person. Totally. And it's all to do with your the your natal shark position the day you were born and how old are you now?

SPEAKER_03 2:09

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

So to be clear, two people born on the same day will have very similar progressions.

SPEAKER_03 2:15

But um apart from that, it's it's you know I mean, if they're born at the exact same time in the exact same hospital, they would have the exact same success chart. Yes, yes, yeah. But if they're born, you know, same time, different space. Different places it's totality.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So what you do is then um technically you take the you say you're 50 years old, and then you take the sun's position 50 days from the day you were born, and then you the where not only that's um sun's position, but that actual the positions of all the planets for that 50th day in the ephemeris, and that is your chart. Yeah, that's your secondary progress chart.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

And you take it for that time of day too. So if you were one of like say 11 a.m., you would go 11 a.m. on that 50 days later.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Well, yes, yes, yes. And the thing is that when you realize that it's changing every day because it's the sun's the whole thing's moving all the time. Yeah. So it's slowly, slowly, these planets, these secondary progress planets are moving.

SPEAKER_03 3:13

Right. Of course, the only, I mean, the outer planets will like will will not have moved materially much at all.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Um, everything closer than say Jupiter will will definitely have moved in over 50 days.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Yeah, yeah. So back in the day before computers were invented, or I mean, how old are we? Um, you had to do this by hand, and it would take like seven hours to calculate your secondary crest chart because you can't just say, Oh, I was born on the first of January 50 years ago, and therefore, and we're now in June, and therefore, and you have to calculate it for um the partial year, the partial month, and the fifth, you know, six months and five days and 13 hours to get the actual position. So doing it by hand is a nightmare. But fortunately for us, are you with me?

SPEAKER_03 4:01

I am sort of, but I mean, I would have thought you'd just look at the ephemeris and just take those those positions, no?

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Well, I mean yes, but they're not exact, they would be for your birthday 50 years.

SPEAKER_03 4:14

Yeah, yeah. Oh, right, because you really would not have an ephemeris from that.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

So so that's why the uh advent of computers is absolutely fantastic. And we're using Astro Golter to calculate, and we've just we've just calculated your secondary progress chart, yeah, and we're absolutely thrilled about it. Also, one thing about secondary progress chart, the birth the place is always still your birthplace, yeah. Whereas transits, you would change. Right.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

So if you've moved from like like you, if you're born in England and now you live in Canada, you would just go.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Yeah, yeah. And you know, there's a subtlety in it because it's not moving that much, and we can all say, Well, I'm 50, therefore the sun's moved 50 degrees, and therefore all the planets will not have moved 50 degrees, but some of them will because they would have retrograded by progression.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

So it's quite the moon will move.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Yeah, yeah. So there's quite a bit to that.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

Yeah, Venus, all and then all of those inner planets making aspects to the outer planets, and then also you do compare that to your natal chart, right? Yes, progress. Yes, yes, progress, and you would do a biwheel. Yes, yeah, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Super interesting. So, how progressions are different to transits? You might say, well, if we're doing transits, why are we doing progressions? But the difference is that transits are happening to everyone right now, yeah, but your progressions are coming from your natal chart, which is like the acorn of your life. This is my analogy, yeah, that will grow into an oak tree as you grow. Yeah, and the older you are, the bigger the oak tree is gonna get because more things have happened. Sure. Um, but the point is that it's the the essence of your chart is the acorn, it's not gonna grow into an apple tree. Yeah. Yeah. So whereas transits will actually affect your natal chart and say if it was windy, this tree couldn't grow so much.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

If it wasn't getting enough water, it's windy for everyone, yes, so to speak.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Yeah. Yeah. So there's two different things happening here. And really, as an astrology, you want to use both at the same time. Absolutely. Yeah. Because it gives you all sorts of information there.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Yeah. And when when people talk about what's happening in the like the forecast, are, you know, if you if you listen to other astrology podcasts or even our our uh monthly overarches, we are exclusively talking about transits and and you know, the moon and things that are actually happening currently. So those would be transits as opposed to progressions. And this is progressions are 100% personal.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Interesting. So it's called a day for a year, that's what it used to be called back in the day. And then you've got something called the progress date, which is today's date, and that would be the date that you'd be looking for in the ephemera. So even though maybe you are 50, but you were you know your birthday's next month, you're almost 51. You there's going to be a calculation on the progress date. There's just a subtlety there, just by the way. But um, so if you click through to the blog post about this, I do have more details about what we're saying in case this is all going over your head. Hopefully not. Hopefully, you know you know about um progression. So once you've calculated the progress chart, it can stand alone. Um, but typically you would put it as a biwheel outside your natal chart. So you've got the natal chart on the inside and the progress chart on the outside. Yeah. And that's what we're talking about, basically. Yeah. So we just managed to tap out your um uh natal chart here. We we've also calculated your secondary progressions, just one moment. Yeah, so you would then put the natal chart on the inside and then you would put the progress chart on the outside because everything's going to progress in one movement or another. So, and the sun and the moon always go forward, but all the other planets will have the potential to retrograde. Right. And then we've also got the ascendant and the mid-heaven are going to progress as well, which is kind of interesting. Absolutely. Now, the outer planets are considered more with transits. Uh, that's Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto, definitely considered more with transits. And if you even consider Saturn and Jupiter, they don't really move that far. If we look at your chart, for example, your natal Jupiter is at three degrees and your progress Jupiter is at zero degrees. So not oh, it's actually three degrees. They're both it's really because it's retrograded.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

But um, and then if we considered your Saturn, for instance, um, bear with me. So natal it's at two degrees, but by progression it's now in four degrees. So in yeah, as many years as what you are old, it hasn't really moved much. And then Chiron and Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have virtually not moved, although they can.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

But in general, you're going to be looking at the inner planets, the Sun, the Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

Yeah. I would think if you were born with uh Pluto in Scorpio, for example, where it's moving the fastest because it's got such an elliptical orbit, then maybe someone who was born in that Pluto in set uh Scorpio generation, their their Pluto would have moved uh more in 50-some years.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Yeah.

unknown 9:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Could have been, could have been. Yeah, for example, with your with your Pluto, we've got it there at three degrees, and by progression it's now at five degrees. In fifty-something years, it's moved two degrees, which is seven pickens. Uh Uranus has moved three degrees, which is not much, and then Neptune went from four in your birth chart to five. So however, they can retrograde back and forth and also um change signs and change houses, and that is critical with progressions. Yeah, totally. Yeah, so are we making sense so far? Do you think so?

SPEAKER_03 9:38

Yeah, it makes a lot more sense when you when you look at it as well with astrology.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Chiron's going nowhere. That's definitely going nowhere. So, yeah. So, anyway, now the progress retrograde is very interesting because if you have a planet that's retrograde in your birth chart, such as you do, you've got Jupiter retrograde, we can see by progression that it's actually at some point stationed and went direct, and it's now direct, which is a good thing. And um, your Mars, for example, is direct in your birth chart, but at some point it stationed retrograde, and it's now retrograde by progression.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

So these are things that we're looking for as well. Whereas um Pluto hasn't, uh Uranus hasn't, and Neptune hasn't, and then uh Jupiter definitely has, and uh Saturn too. Saturn was direct in your natal chart and it's now retrograde in your wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

So is that something where where you'd want to look at how many different things are retrograde in the progress chart? And you would maybe interpret that as periods of stagnation or periods of retrospection.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

Correct. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

So what you're really looking for, if we are going to be forecasting for 12 months ahead with a client, which is typically what one would do, you would do a for a 12-month forecast. We would want to say to ourselves, are any of these planets going to station retrograde in the next 12 months? Uh and or are any of these planets going to change sign or change house? So for a planet to change signs, it needs to be at kind of 29th something or other. And it may then change sign, um, but they can change houses too, and the year it changes house is important. Right.

SPEAKER_03 11:21

So similar to transits of outer planets, like if Pluto's going into your seventh house and you want to know that because it'll be there for years.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yeah, well, years, and it's going to linger for that 12-month period. So at some point, your Saturn went from the eighth house into your ninth house. And we don't know what year that was just by looking here. Right. We'd have to dig deeper to find out exactly when that occurred. Right. And not only did Saturn then change house, it then at some point got to its station and is starting to move back. Yeah. And it may, by the end of your life, move back again into the eighth house.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

Questions. I have a I have a question and a comment. So I would um we can probably get into this a little bit later, but we can progress, not a sinistry chart, because that's just when you compare charts, but when you do um what is it called? I can't remember the other relationship chart where you actually Davison. Yeah, the Davison chart where you actually create a new chart.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

You can progress them both. You can progress a composite to composite, that's the word.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Yeah. So composite, uh, Davison is just a different form of composite chart. But you can progress compared to the charts. And that's fascinating. Yes. And uh I did that uh for my partner and I, but I also did a comparison of our progress charts at the time we at the day we met. Yes, because his uh ascendant is is like 25 Libra-ish, he's nine years older than me, right? And my ascendant is at two degrees Scorpio. So I was wondering when, because at some point they're going to converge. Yes. And they converged right around the time we met, like the year we met. Literally, our ascendants had uh converged, which is hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Well, yeah, I think this is it. This is it.

SPEAKER_03 13:01

Yeah, this is it.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Let's let's talk a bit about the ascendant.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

So uh progressed ascendants, that's one of my favorite uh things about progressions.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

I exactly, yeah. So with your your natal chart, you've got your ascendant at two degrees, Scorpio. So it's because it's gonna move forward, the ascendant doesn't retrograde either. So what we find here now looking at your chart, that your ascendant is actually now in Sagittarius, so it's gone all the way through Scorpio, yeah, and then at some point it moved into Sagittarius, and it's now at seven Sagittarius.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

So if we say, for instance, we're going to live to be a hundred, typically your ascendant will go through three signs, which is 30 to 30 and 30, and maybe a bit longer. It just depends on the natal chart.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

Exactly. So if you're born with an ascendant that's near the beginning of the sign, it'll take about 30 years for it to do the next thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

But those are really interesting times to mo to to mark. It is when did you when did your ascendant change by progression?

SPEAKER_01 13:57

And the important thing about the progressed ascendant means you've got a new progress chart ruler.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Right. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

So now your progress chart ruler, because your ascendant is in Sagittarius, is Jupiter. Yeah. Our friend Jupiter. Now, the year that that ascendant changed sign would have been interesting if that was part of your forecast. Yeah. But once it's actually spent like that 12 months making the shift of that one degree, you kind of set. So you don't really look at that as a forecasting theme. Yeah. Um, but it would just take cognizance that it is now in Sagittarius and will be there for another 23 years-ish. So Jupiter's kind of running the show for quite a while still. Cool. Yeah. And then, of course, you want to look at then what is the condition of this Jupiter. And we now, as we said earlier, it's just it was retrograde, it's now direct. So good news there. Again, we would have to go and find out exactly when these actual uh movements occurred. Um, but let's just go, let's start at the uh the moon. Okay, so your progress moon is a very, very popular uh forecasting period because the moon moves so quickly, it takes about 29 years to go around the chart. Therefore, it takes about 29 years for the progressed moon to go around the chart. So, again, if you're going to live to be 100, it's going to go at least three times around your chart. And that gives us the progressed moon, and it will change signs and house more frequently than the other planets. That's why it's a very important significator in the progress chart.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

So Natalie, your moon is in Virgo in the 10th house, and by progression, which it's gone trotting around the chart a couple of times, and we now find that the moon has just crossed the mid-heaven and it's now in your tenth house. So that I often.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

Oh, actually, it's already yeah, my moon's always been in my tenth house, but it's right now at the mid-heaven.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

But it's well, it's coming round because it's coming round for its second hip coming round.

SPEAKER_03 15:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

So at some point it would have probably, I don't know, it's gone through the whole zodiac twice at this point. Yeah. So at this point, you there would have been a time probably eight months ago.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

I'm just stabbing in the dark here, where it crossed your mid-heaven, and we would say, eight months ago, how was the career going? Oh yeah. Blah blah blah, this and that. And that's what you're concerned with, yes.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

Yeah. I would have been just in the process of getting my my new job almost.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Well, that's a theme, isn't it? Yeah, right. That's a theme. So the progress moon is now in Leo, but your natal one is in Virgo, and we also want to pay attention to not only changing um signs, but changing houses too. So we would say, well, it's going to be in the 10th house for usually two and a half years, and then it will move on. So it's a good marker. And so you want to pay attention to the progress moon changing signs. And we would say, well, in the next 12 months, will that progress moon move sign or house? It may not, because it's middly in the in the actual sign and it's at the beginning of a house.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Um, but then we are concerned with the progressed moon phase. So, what is the phase that the progress moon is now in comparison to the progressed sun? So, if in your natal chart you have a new moon, if we look in your progress chart, we can see you have a last quarter moon at the moment, that is the phase you are in and will be for about three and a half years.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

So there's multiple layers of what's going on here that we want to pay attention to. And the moon is particularly um an interesting one, you know, because it's moving so fast you can really look into insights of the progress moon, whereas frequently not much is happening.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Yeah. Interesting. So on the on the blog post, I've got an example of the progress new moon for Canada. I mean, we want to pay attention to when is the next progress, when is the progress new moon going to occur? And we would look here and say, well, it's probably going to be in six or seven years for you. But if it's coming up close, you want to pay attention to it. Yeah. And oh, when you say for Canada, so we're doing a little my main astrology now. Well, uh, that just happens with the chart I had at where we're looking at the when is the progress new moon, and you want to pay attention to that because it's a whole new cycle beginning. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

Yeah, that's super important for for nations and uh love that so sidebar here.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah, when I when we lived in Toronto and my husband said, Oh, I'm going to Vancouver, you need to come. I said, No, I'm not going there. Because he'd done it to K, he'd been to Calgary for two years and said, You must come here. I said, I'm not going there. And then I happened to look at my chart and I saw that I was getting a progress new moon, that's the progress sun and moon, on my icy, just in the fourth house, and that is, of course, a move of house. Yeah. And when I saw that, I just threw my hands in the air. I thought, well, I don't need to plant those roses that I was planning to. And I realized the move was coming, but I wasn't having it. Yeah. And he was here two years before I finally decided, okay, I'll sell the house and come.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

And it was that progress new moon that occurred for me 14 odd years ago. That here I am in Vancouver. Yeah. So these things don't come up often, but when they do, you need to pay attention to them. Right. Because they're going to be big significators of an underline, anything that you've already picked out in the transits.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

Yeah, yeah, for sure. That's cool.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Yeah. Yeah. So that's why you pay attention to the phase as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then we also have a progress lunar return. So this is when the progress moon gets back to its natal position. So there's two different cycles running there. So we can see because the progress moon for you is 18 Leo and your uh natal moon is at 14 Virgo, it's going to be occurring what in five or six years. We we don't have the dates, but you would be looking to that, and it will occur in your 10th house. So you will be looking at that too.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Start something fresh and juicy.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

Nice. You know? Yeah, yeah, totally. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

So there's two cycles there. There's the progress lunar cycle, and then there's the progress lunar returns. They're two different uh cycles going on. Yeah. All in one go.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

So let's just have a look at the other planets. So if we look at the progress sun, clearly the sun is going to move up to 100 degrees in your 100-year life. So it's going to change signs maybe two or three times, and it will probably change houses two or three times. And we can see from your uh natal chart that the sun started off in the 10th house, and it's now down here in the 12th house. So it's gone out of Virgo and it's in still in Libra. Um, and it's only uh six degrees from the ascendant. So this is again a didn't we just say seven? So yeah, so we're getting these messages here that in six years' time that sun is going to cross your ascendant, could join the ascendant and cross it. And before it does that, it will leave Libra and enter Scorpio.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

Amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

So upcoming, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Yeah, that's something to look forward to. Let's progress finding Scorpio. Here I come.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Right? Yeah. I will, you know, honestly, we could we could go back and actually find these dates. You can find the dates, but we I just don't have them at the moment. But this is kind of what we're looking for. So you're looking for the sun changing signs and the sun changing houses. We can see just by looking at this biwheel that the sun is going to change its house in probably six years.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Um, because it's near the end of the house cusp. And um we can definitely say that. Whereas you can't necessarily say that for the other planets.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

And the fact that the sun only ever goes direct.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

So Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

Yeah. So that's super interesting. We would also I I know we talked in our uh 225th episode. Someone had asked about uh the progressed the the progress chart and how that um deals with the aspects that you have in your birth chart and whether they dilute over time. And we had said, yes, they absolutely do. When you if you're born with a grand cross, it will sh if uh provided it's not all outer planets, of course, by progression, those will um they will it will dissolve into something else over over time. And so we would obviously want to look at aspects in the progress chart.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So then you would want the progress chart standing alone. So let's just calculate that. So if you want to check out the aspects, you would cast the progress chart by itself and look at the aspects. So we've just calculated your progress chart for today, and uh we've just noticed that there's actually a grand trine there between the moon. This is your progress moon, your progress Chiron, and your progress Venus. Bringing all these themes of what femininity, artistic, uh healing properties coming together in some way, um, which is, and of course, we need to dig deeper in all of these things. Um, looking at the chart, there's there's other things going on as well. Um, but that's an aspect that you don't have in your natal chart.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

Right. Yeah. I mean, I have a grand tried in my natal chart, but not that, not that not that one, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

So you don't have Venus, try and moon in your natal chart. Um, I don't think you actually have an aspect between, but at some point the progress moon came into position and said, Okay, I'm gonna try and Venus and I'm gonna try and Calorum while I'm at it.

SPEAKER_03 23:20

Yeah, my moon is almost unaspected in my natal chart, it's only making a very broad conjunction to my sun.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Yeah. Yeah. So this is it. And here we've got the uh progress chart rule of Jupiter, also now trying Pluto, which it doesn't in your natal chart, I don't think.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Or I think it's maybe it does. I think it does.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

So outer planet aspects are likely to replane, but the other ones will change because the moon's continuously moving.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

So say you had sun square moon in your natal chart, by progression, you will get then the moon will then try and the sun and it will ease things up for you. For sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

So you do you do have that uh situation as well that you want to kind of pay attention to aspects that have formed and particularly to the chart ruler, which in now in this case is now actually uh Jupiter.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Yeah, yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Yeah. Yeah, so you would definitely uh want to consider the aspects there.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

Yeah, I guess another thing that we would want to look at just the same way as we do when we do the monthly overarches, is to look at the elemental balance. Yes, yeah, because I mean you'd have one balance when you're born, and then every year it would be different. Well by progression.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

It will be but by progression, it slowly, slowly shifts, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Some of the outer planets don't move, but your ascendant definitely does. I mean, the fact that your progress ascendant is Sagittarius. Yeah.

unknown 24:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

I mean, I basically have like hardly anything in fire in my natal chart, but that's by progression.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

There's I think the moon. Yeah, yeah. We've got a couple of planets there.

unknown 24:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Additionally, you'd want to look at the mid-heaven too, because the mid-heaven um in your natal chart is in Leo and it's now in Libra. So it's gone through Leo, it's gone through the whole of Virgo, and now it's actually uh just gone into Libra, so it'll be there for another give or take 30 odd years. Yeah. So you want to pay attention to those things. So we've looked at the sun and the moon. Now let's look at Mercury. So Mercury is your first planet that's going to retrograde. And but it looks like in your chart, Arwen, that it actually hasn't retrograded at all and it's just gone direct because it started off at zero Virgo, it's gone through Virgo, through Libra, and it's now at 21 Scorpio. But at some point it will station retrograde.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Now, Mercury retrograde by progression is interesting. If you have Mercury retrograde in your natal chart, and you um and if you your kid has it, yeah, and they go to school, they are going to it's going to be a struggle to learn. And then one year suddenly they get it, and that's generally the year when Mercury stations direct and it starts, and suddenly, oh, everything becomes clearer. Yeah, they can write, they can comprehend, they can do their numbers, because Mercury is all about what the teacher wants from you. You've got to be able to write your name and act two and two together and work things out and talk in front of the class. And if you've got that retrograde Mercury during the school years, it's it's challenging.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a light at the end of the tunnel for it is, it is, it is.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

And of course, the downside is that if Mercury is direct in your nature chart, it may go retrograde whilst you are still in school. Right. So when we get to be adults, we can overcome these problems. We can we can just cover it up that we can't spell. Yeah. We just go, we just kids at the school.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Spell check, whatever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

But kids at school necessarily can't always do that. So that's an interesting. And there was a woman who wrote a book about I can't remember the name, but I'll put a link in the in the um show notes about Mercury and schoolgirl and kids, and I how the astrology can say, yes, but next year we can see that things are going to ease up for this kid. But in the meantime, it needs remedial attention, it needs spelling, it needs this and that uh support whilst Mercury's retrograde.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Right. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

I know you see because Mercury can be retrograde for 28 years, because it's yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

So that's the Mercury uh story there. Then if we look at Venus, now Venus too will retrograde, and that will can retrograde for 42 days, so i.e. 42 years. Right. And um, interestingly, and in my natal chart, I have Venus stationed retrograde the day I was born. So the first 42 years of my life, Venus would retrograde, and it was only as I turned 42, 43, suddenly. Wow, I can tap better into this Venus thing of love and and art and and social skills. Whereas prior to that, it it wasn't it was a battle.

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Wow, that's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Yeah, that was a tough one. When I astrologically, when I learned this, I thought, oh no, look at that. I don't want that in my chart. And yet there he was. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

So you had the uh the big number 42 looming going, okay, just dive it in. Yes, I drop it out until I'm 42, and then it'll get easier.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Well, yeah, and the thing is too, because it's stationed and it will stay on that degree for like forever, so you've got this whole year of the station occurring and then it moves off. So tricky, tricky, tricky. But if you're a good astrologer, you'll catch all these things. Right. And if people are saying, I want to get married or something, that would be an indicator too of moving things forward in the love life. Or the finances or or the social skills, or or the the art or whatever it is, yeah. So that's an interesting thing. So for you, your Venus started off in Libra, which is great, and then it's gone through Scorpio and it's now in Sagittarius. So it too looks like it hasn't retrograded since you were born. So bonus for you.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Because we never know what we're gonna see when we look in these charts, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Yeah, and what about Mars? Here we have our Mars, Ferdinand the Bull. Yeah, so Natalie.

SPEAKER_03 28:54

Mars in Taurus.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Yeah, natal, you've got Mars at uh five degrees Taurus direct, and at some point it turned retrograde, it's now at three degrees Taurus retrograde, but it virtually has not moved. Now, typically a progress Mars could move at you know 30 odd degrees by the time you're your age, but it actually hasn't budged an inch because it did that retrograde. So it's still there taking the same message, the Mars seventh house Taurus message remains for you. That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

Yeah. Well, that's of all the things to be consistent. Why not that?

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Well, yes, yes. So, you know, even though some things have lickety split moved along, Mars has not gone anywhere. Yeah, so it's you know, you and you are pretty solid in your seventh house arrangements, aren't you? Yes, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_03 29:42

The same person for 28 years.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Wow, so there you are. Say no more. And because Mars is there at three degrees and your descendant is at two degrees, we would want to check in the ephemeris, is it going to go back into your sixth house? Which would then add to a lot more work and productivity and busyness and uh rather morning rituals and sixth house stuff going on. But that is not quite there yet. But if if I was your if you were my client, I'd be checking when is that happening? Because it's one degree from the cusp.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you've got that going then.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

So then I mean basically it'll be there in my sixth house for the rest of my life. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Yes, yes. Until it then stations direct and moves back. You see, we don't know when that is.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

It may not actually get to your sixth house, depending when it goes direct. So that's why you have to check.

SPEAKER_03 30:34

Right, of course.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Yeah, you can't tell by just looking. Yeah. But um, you think you can when you start up and oh, this is a piece of cake.

SPEAKER_03 30:40

And it's not like Mercury where it spends exactly three weeks retrograde all every time. It's yeah, Mars has Mars is weird that way, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Yeah. So and then after Mars, the next planet out is then Jupiter. We did speak about this, so natal, you've got it three degrees Aquarius third house retrograde. It is now three degrees Aquarius third house direct. Nothing is happening there. So that's basically giving the same message to you because it's maintaining the aspects as well.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Um, the Saturn we did speak about, your Saturn went from your eighth house into your ninth house, and it may now retrograde back into your eighth house. Again, you've got to check.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

When is it going to do that station? And we don't know, interestingly. Um, and then if we look at Uranus, for example, because why wouldn't we? We're right here. So native you've got it at 20 Libra, and it's now 23, so really not much is going on there. Although it has recently conjoined your progress sun, which is kind of interesting. Yeah. That's probably when we started the podcast three years ago. Right. Yeah, when the sun conjoined that uh Uranus there. So that's not going anywhere. And then Neptune is the same place, four degrees sag, it's now five degrees sag, second house.

SPEAKER_03 31:52

Yeah, yeah, still.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

And Pluto's gone from three to five, still in the ninth house, and will probably remain there, honestly, for all of your life. Yeah. Uh Chiron's not much is happening either. It's it was retrograde when you were born at 20. It's now still retrograde at 18, so it's moved two degrees in in the in your lifetime. It's really not much.

SPEAKER_03 32:11

Yeah, still in the sixth house. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

So there's quite a bit uh kind of going on there. And the what you're really looking for is planets changing sign and changing house and changing direction in the next 12 months. And apart from that, you ignore it. Yeah. Because it's been there so long. It's background noise.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

So cool. It kind of is, right? So we for you, I would want to immediately check when the sun's gonna cross this ascendant, because that's important. Right. You're gonna go from the dark, not that you think you're in the dark, but into the light. Yeah. So from the dark of the twelfth house into the light of the first house. And that's kind of an important one.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

For sure. Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

So you would check these things by looking, you can get your computer to do it, or you can just look in the ephemeris, um, well, you can get the computer to do it, and just see is any of these gonna make a change? And if so, which month is that happening? Because you need to focus in on it. Yeah, because it will be reinforcing something that's going on in the transits as well. Yeah. Right. So there isn't there is another um technique that some astrologers use and they're called converse progressions. Oh, okay. So that means that you calculate, you don't calculate forward from your deck time of birth, you calculate backwards. What? So you can calculate 50 years into the past, and that would be your converse progress chart. And Solarfire will calculate it for you.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

Okay, so 50 days packs. Yeah. Yeah. Huh. And why what would be the just because you can't.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

It's another way of looking at it and saying, what am I missing here? Um, let me have give that some consideration. Personally, I don't do it, but I I mention it in parting because we want to. There might be some astrologers out there listening who actually do do it and swear by it, and why not? I just don't because it's, I mean, how much time does one have? Right anyway, so you've got that as well, which is just by the way, yeah. Clearly it needs more research. Someone needs to go and do the research and write the book on that.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

Yeah, yeah. That reminds me a little bit of those um the the uh pre-birth eclipses.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Oh, the prenatal eclipse. Oh, we must do an episode. We should do an episode on that? Absolutely, yeah. That's an episode. I'll make a note because uh prenatal. Yeah, it's the word. Prenatal eclipses, yeah. Yeah. And the other interesting thing about progressions is of course our favorite dispository, because that changes. Every time a planet changes sign, your dispository changes. Right. So I know in your in your uh birth chart you've got uh Mercury in Virgo and Venus in Libra, but of course they are not in those signs anymore. Right. So the whole dispository has shifted, and that's the one you're living with now.

SPEAKER_03 34:43

Oh, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

So even though some of the outer planets have stayed the same, clearly you've got the sun is in Libra, and let's go, and Venus is in Sagittarius, Jupiter's in Aquarius, where's Saturn? Saturn's in Cancer, and on it goes. Where's the moon in Leo? So you've got that circle there, I can see it right now. A committee dispository of Sun, Venus, committee, Sun, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn and the Moon are the usual suspects for the time being.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

So could we just extrapolate from that? Because we we like in the in the dispository, when you end up with one planet that is it's kind of ruling them all, you can say that that's like the most important planet. The final display. Yeah, that's a super important thing. And in my chart, we have decided that or discovered that I have two in my natal chart, which would be Mercury and Venus. Correct. And we were talking about how that is very much like my personality because there's the the wordy talkative, you know, side, and then the you know, fashion-y pink hair, blah, blah, blah, Venus side, burlesque and whatnot, and the art. Uh, but could we say then that by progression, now that I have a committee, yeah, I'm going through a kind of more well-rounded or just diffuse part of my life?

SPEAKER_01 35:54

These are the these this is what I call when you've got a committee, you've got five planets, it's the usual suspects. So it's like these five planets are sitting at your boardroom table saying, Okay, Arwen, I think we're gonna do this, and the sun says this, and Saturn says that, and Venus says, and you are giving a more not a more direct uh that you have with the final dispositor, but you're giving a more nuanced view about and you're you're giving consideration to perhaps even other people's points of view that maybe you didn't when you were younger. Very much so.

SPEAKER_03 36:27

That's very safe to say. Yes. I like to consider it maybe it's more like a band than a committee. That sounds more fun. Okay, I've got a whole band now.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

You do.

SPEAKER_03 36:36

Your group. It's a five-piece band.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Yes, you do. So you've got what do we say? We've got the Sun, Venus, Jupiter, um, Saturn, and what was that? The moon. Yeah. So then because the moon's in Leo, it's all part of the thing. So the next plan to move off that will be the moon going into Virgo, but um, that will then just reduce the or break it up.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

Yeah, it'll go down to four. The bean's losing their fifth member.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Yeah.

unknown 37:00

Whatever.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Well, you'll lose the link, you'll lose the circle once. That's what's gonna happen. Yeah. So for the time being, as we speak this year, you've got this committee of five, yeah, which might be a way for you to say, this is how I'm going to approach life now. I'm not just going to plunge on in and do Mercury-Venus things. Yeah, I'm going to let these other planets have their say. Yeah. Let them step up and speak at the table, as Michelle Obama says, you are welcome at this table, right? Yeah. And give them a chance to um participate in your life, which maybe you hadn't in the past. Very cool. Yeah. I think that's definitely true. Yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_03 37:41

Yeah. Now I'm curious about your your progress chart.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Yes, well, yes. Yeah, so just having a quick look at my uh progress chart. Remember, I said 14 years ago I had the progress new moon. Well, here we are 14 years later in Vancouver, and I'm now getting the progressed full moon. Because what's happened is that my progress sun is now at 22 Libra, and my progress moon is at 25. So, like a couple of months ago, earlier this year, I think it was February, I got my progress full moon when the moon opposed the sun. And that was the 14-year mark for Vancouver.

unknown 38:14

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

And um, it is happening in the 10th house, and I had a bit of a change of direction of career-wise there, and which we'll talk about another day, but anyway, and um there's a there's been a subtle shift there of a new way of expressing things.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

And then I also had in my lifetime, I've had Jupiter change signs because it was quite at the end of Scorpio, and it's now in Sagittarius, where it's far better.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Um, which is a far better placed, and um um, you know, there's quite a bit, quite a bit. Saturn hasn't moved, Chiron hasn't moved, um, Pluto hasn't budged, Uranus has stayed put, Venus um is re had retrograde and is now working its way back, but it's still not there at all. Um, and then Mars has moved from uh Virgo into Libra. So it has moved about 30-something degrees, but not that much. Neptune hasn't gone anywhere, and of course, my as I said, my moon is now at the full moon phase, which is the most interesting thing for me by progression for this year, 2026, that I had this progress full moon, where I'm seeing because when you've got the full moon, you've got the full light of the moon. So you could see everything in clarity and warts and all, and you look at your thing and you say, Well, I can see all this. Can I accept it? And what am I gonna jettison and what am I gonna take with me forward? And that's what you see at the culmination of these moves, right? And I've I've had quite a rehash this year about sort trying to sort things out. So for the 2026, that's my biggest movement that's going on there.

SPEAKER_03 39:46

That's very cool.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

It is, yeah, it's uh it's a big marker that I can't believe I've been here 14 years, and I was in the elevator with some people to tell you. They said, How long have you lived in this building? I said, 14 years. I thought, yeah. Yeah, they were visiting somebody, apparently there's somebody new on my floor. I didn't know they were there, never heard of them, don't know who they are. Because they said, What did what apartment are they? And I said, I'm sorry, I don't know who they are. Yeah, that's the nature of our building, right?

SPEAKER_03 40:12

Yeah, most most you know, urban apartment buildings are kind of that way. You know a few people, you know, I can't know everyone.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

14 years, and here we are. Yeah. So what has changed? A lot has changed in the four in the 14 years, but uh that's because the sun and the the moon have aligned up that way. Yeah, yeah. Cool. So then if we looked at the uh dispository, I've now got what have I got? I've got the sun is in Libra and Venus is in uh Virgo, and then Mercury is in Scorpio, and then Mars is in Libra. So actually, I shall have a loop there as well. Sun, yeah, Sun, Venus, Mercury, Mars are make forming a committee for me too, which I don't have natally anyway.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

So again, it just happens to be that we both have the same uh type of thing going, but I've got just different planets to you. So maybe we're also taking a uh more well, let me give this more consideration or something.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

Oh yeah, trying all the different things.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:11

Interesting. So we talked a bit about progressions of uh composite charts before. Do we want to talk about that?

SPEAKER_01 41:17

Well, something we can if you can do. You can calculate your composite chart and um and progress it. Yeah, well, or you can take both of your progress charts and make a composite of the two.

SPEAKER_03 41:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's super interesting, actually. It's if you've I mean obviously if you've been together for a while, that's kind of more relevant than well, you should get the same chart.

unknown 41:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

But um yeah, more research is required. Yeah. So we're talking about a relationship there. What is the progress? So even if you say you get married, right, and you've got your marriage chart, you can progress that marriage chart and see what how is this marriage going to evolve and it will show in the progressions. Yeah. Same if you start a business, you register a business, yeah, and then you progress the chart and you think, Well, how's this? It will this business prevail? And if you chose it right in the first place, it should do because you picked it for the transits that were happening, and they should develop into good things too.

SPEAKER_03 42:11

Right. But I mean, you can you can I analyze the the charts of nations because you can find the birth time of of many, especially the modern nations, obviously. The older the country is, you don't know what time the you know charter was signed, generally speaking. But you know, with the US, for example, there's a very you know reputable chart of the start time of the US, uh signing of the Declaration of Independence and uh for most you know new new countries, but also for corporations, which are just as powerful as huge nations these days, some of them. I mean, the the chart for Apple or the chart for Google, we have very specific dates and times about the starts of those.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Well, even the IPOs, because we I don't know if we spoke about this before. With when Facebook um launched its IPO, Venus was retrograde and it struggled. The the share price struggled. But when Twitter did it, who was way smaller, yeah, it had Venus direct and it its share price went up. Yeah, but the Facebook did not.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

Because they didn't consult their astrologer. Right.

SPEAKER_03 43:12

Chat GPT must have been uh in a very good position because it outpaced everybody as far as their uh so you've got that as well, that there are many ways to, if you're going to do in a full analysis of these things, you would you would calculate a progress chart and you would look at it.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

But as we've seen for just a straight up um in individual consultation, there are only a few things that have cropped up that we would want to say, let me check that sun, let me check that Mars.

SPEAKER_03 43:38

Yeah. So when you're doing like uh, you know, um an hour or uh I don't know how long your consultations in at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Well, they start at an hour, but it always goes on.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

So you you said a lot of times, like, you know, this is something if you have an hour you're gonna spend, you know, X amount of time on. Oh yeah. How long would you spend it?

SPEAKER_01 43:53

This is the this is the 15 minute thing. Okay. Your transits is half an hour. Okay. And your secondary progressions is uh 15 minutes, basically. And then you've got the other two. It's uh solar arc directions and solar returns.

SPEAKER_03 44:05

Okay. And this is not uh if they're coming to you. This is obviously if they initially come to you, it's probably for a natal thing. So this is more like if they're coming back and saying, I want to know what's going on right now.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Well, if they're coming back, you're going deeper into the chart because you just can't get through everything, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But if you're just going to be analysing and you want and they want to forecast, which they do, there's no question nobody doesn't want to forecast. They all want to forecast. You really put 50% of your effort goes into transits and 25% of your effort goes into solar progressions, because uh sorry, secondary progressions, because you have to find them, but there's not that many, but you need to know what they mean when you see them, if you've got the new moon or the full moon or the committee or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_04 44:46

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

Yeah, there's a lot to it. Yeah, and this is why technically that if you are considering an astrology reading, the first reading is just gonna scratch the service. You need to book your second and third to go deeper into all the ins and outs of the charts.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

Right, totally.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so we've been talking about secondary progressions, which is a symbolic forecasting technique. We've gone through rather briefly what you're looking for and how to calculate it. And um, and it when I first started, I thought, oh, this is just another chart, it's a piece of cake. But then you realize you're actually only looking for specific things, you're looking for markers and like fingers pointing, hey, look at this. And that's what you're looking for. It's not like transit, so it is slightly different. You have to take a different kind of approach to it. Yeah, and um, every time you have a uh consultation, you would have to calculate the new sender of a guest chart. You can't, whereas a transit, we all know Saturn's in Aries, we can just eyeball that.

SPEAKER_04 45:45

Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

So with progressions, you absolutely have to cast the chart and uh go from there. Yeah. Yeah. Have you found this interesting to you? Yeah. I have used it. It's a bit complicated, isn't it? It is.

SPEAKER_03 45:57

And I used to I mean this is just a thing of going through different phases of one's life as an astrologer. And for a while I had an application that I really loved and it worked really well for me. And I um since I got a Mac, I haven't been able to use it because it's not available for Mac. And I realized that this is a me problem. I know I get that. But um, but yeah, it's just uh I I find that I do less of those types of um kind of day-to-day calculations and and and you know, I pay attention to big transits and things like that, what's happening in the universe as we speak, but less about you know, calculating uh personal things because it's just it's not as easy as well. So it's a lot of when we had this one, you know, super convenient application that I loved. This is it.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

No, I I get it.

SPEAKER_03 46:45

And I know you're all like, why doesn't everyone use solar fire?

SPEAKER_01 46:48

I get that, but no, well, no, I mean it's it's yeah, I like Astro Gold, it's just Oh Astro Gold, that's the one, yeah. Yeah, yeah, Astro Gold. Yeah. But um Yeah, so yeah. So if you have found value in this episode, please do consider sharing it with anybody who'd be interested. Make sure to be getting our newsletter, and you can sign up at starzoology.com forward stroke newsletter. Also make sure you're getting Arwen's newsletter, and we can find Arwen at Ms. Pink.net M S P I N K, and I send out my newsletter every Saturday. Fantastic.

unknown 47:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

So make sure to like and uh give us a thumbs up on all of our give us a positive review, give us five stars.

SPEAKER_03 47:26

We love that. And we'd love to hear from you.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

Yeah, you've got any questions, you can email us at starzoology at gmail.com. Do it. Fantastic. Well, Owen, thank you so much for joining me again today.

SPEAKER_03 47:36

Thank you, and thanks for uh joining us, everyone. We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

We'll see you next time.